The next ban… e-cigarettes

[Origanalist]

As we all know, the government is very interested and actively engaged in stopping people from smoking cigarettes. (Insert pause here.)

Okay… now that I’ve given you all time to stop laughing, we can give a brief nod to the fact that government at all levels in the United States has virtually zero interest in stopping people from smoking. They have a vast, vested interest in looking like they disapprove of smoking, while keeping it legal and taxing the living heck out of it at every level. This leads to all manner of economic and law enforcement problems, but still manages to stack a few extra coins in their coffers and avoids the embarrassing problem of having tens of thousands of additional people suddenly out of work.

But a deal was cut at one point – more on that below – which might allow manufacturers to transition to other tobacco based products which were not smoked, This led to the e-cigarette. (Disclosure: I’ve never tried this product.) But it looks like the government wants to shut this menace down as well.


As the Food and Drug Administration [FDA] is poised to issue new rules governing e-cigarettes, a new study has found some 22 potentially dangerous chemical elements in the vapor given off or inhaled.

These include many metallic particles – including 3 on the FDA’s “harmful and potentially harmful chemicals” list [lead, nickel, and chromium] – with the concentrations of 9 “higher than or equal to the corresponding concentrations in conventional cigarette smoke,” notes public interest law professor John Banzhaf, who has been called “the law professor who masterminded litigation against the tobacco industry.”

That’s bad news for people in the industry who thought that the government would give them a bit of running room to make such a shift, as reported by Forbes.


Several years ago, the federal government entered into a Faustian bargain with the tobacco industry — and the cigarette makers with the government. It was legislation borne of mutual antipathy.

Under the scheme, Washington brought the tobacco industry under the thumb of federal regulation. FDA now oversees everything from the way cigarettes are marketed, to the manner in which they are made. In exchange, the tobacco industry was promised a regulatory track out of their current (declining) business model…

It always seemed a naïve aspiration — that FDA would ever sanction such products – and even more uncertain that the anti-tobacco crowd would let this paradigm advance. Now, each side’s ambitions (and the law’s spirit) are being tested.

In short, the government is looking to ban – or at least heavily restrict – the use of these new e-cigarettes which deliver the drug (nicotine) without all the other harmful trash generally associated with the burning plant fiber bi-products. Social engineers the world over are already on board with this plan, including schemes at the World Health Organization to try to ban – or more likely tax heavily – it at an international level.

I’m sure there is a point to be made about any smokeless tobacco product being sold to children, but what about adults? I suppose the assumption here is that e-cigarettes might just be an unholy plan to addict non-smokers to nicotine and lure them into smoked products, but in the end that just winds up generating more tax revenue. So where is the profit motive for the government in this one?

Have any of you actually tried one of these electronic cigarettes? The practice doesn’t involve spitting like chew or wads in the cheek like other packaged products. Should the government be wading into this?


hotair.com/archives/2013/04/13/the-next-ban-e-cigarettes/

[opal]

I'm sitting here with my volts right next to me. Volts are my e cigs.. branded by smokeless image.

Metal particles? really???? who made that juice????? geeze

I've been vaping for 6 months now and I really like it.. my new hobby.

The juice bases are generally vegetable glycerine and/or propylene glycol. I use all VG.. personal preference. The flavorings are the same flavorings used in foods world wide for the non tobacco flavors.

My personal favorite flavor is whipped cream. I also have all day vapes of candy-cane, butterscotch, cafe coffee, mocha and various chocolate flavors. I'm way down on the nic now, but I guess this is more of an oral fixation compensator now.

Tobacco flavors can be NET (naturally extracted tobacco) or.. darn.. it just escaped me.. past bed time here.

there is DIY gear that I've heard is very easy to get supplies to make your own device.

Juice is even easier .. wallyworld has just plain old VG - which vapes very nicely all by itself.
The only ingredient that would make hard core vapers stress over is the nicotine.

[AFPVet]

Let's not forget the fact that Government has no business in private lives. If private entities wish to prohibit or allow smoking, it's up to them. I believe that government is a waste of resources in and of itself. Government should be limited to the confines of the Constitution. Private agencies can regulate each other much better than the government can (which has the ear of the highest bidder).

[phill4paul]

Anyone that knows corporate lobby control understands this is business as usual.

[AFPVet]

Anyone that knows corporate lobby control understands this is business as usual.

... but business that needs to cease.

[DamianTV]

Smoke and Mirrors, pun intended on smoke. Just another illusion that "we need the Govt to tell us what to do". Now go get your totally safe Mercury Laced Vaccines, and eat that High Fructose Corn Syrup in mass quantities.

[TheGrinch]

*Bookmarking so I can come back to this tomorrow. In short, no there are not adverse chemicals in the organic glycerol I use, and certainly not anything proven harmful like the "additives" in cigarettes (not to mention tar or smoke, being an odorless vapor).

As for whether it will be effective, it can be, but i'll revisit that tomorrow.

[phill4paul]

*Bookmarking so I can come back to this tomorrow. In short, no there are not adverse chemicals in the organic glycerol I use, and certainly not anything proven harmful like the "additives" in cigarettes.

As for whether it will be effective, it can be, but i'll revisit that tomorrow.

My e-cig worked for one month. I coupled that with a one month gym membership. I was pleased with the results but life changed and I went back to R.Y.O. An e-cig is not a substitute. It does not have the taste or the ceremony involved. It doesn't have the proper smoke.
I still think they are great. There is no reason other than the tobacco lobby to ban them.

[LibertyEagle]

My e-cig worked for one month. I coupled that with a one month gym membership. I was pleased with the results but life changed and I went back to R.Y.O. An e-cig is not a substitute. It does not have the taste or the ceremony involved. It doesn't have the proper smoke.
I still think they are great. There is no reason other than the tobacco lobby to ban them.

If yours only worked for one month, it's likely because you got ahold of a crappy one.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/forum.php

[itshappening]

I'm going to get one. I want to see what it's like before they ban them

[LibertyEagle]

I'm going to get one. I want to see what it's like before they ban them

It will be hard for them to ban all the delivery devices. What they will likely severely regulate is the nicotine liquid. That is why some are stocking up on it so that they can make their own e-juice. A lot of people already make their own. It's quite simple.

[itshappening]

I wonder what Jeffrey Wigand thinks of them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Wigand

NICOTINE DELIVERY DEVICE!!

JUST A NICOCTINE DELIVERY DEVICE....

They really went to town on the tobacco industry because they sold NICOTINE DELIVERY DEVICES!

Well these are the same thing but cleaner. Just no big companies for the states to extort billions from.

That's why they hate them...

The government is a criminal enterprise.

[itshappening]

Don't forget you have morons like Blumenthal that were part of that extortion racket against the tobacco industry now sitting in the Senate.

Their problem is what are they going to do ? Go after mom and pops selling these devices?

This is fantastic and they really hate them.

Even if they ban them you could just order them overseas anyway through the mail.

[tod evans]

I think most folks agree that this is another area government doesn't need to be involved in, that said;

I see this as possibly another tipping point......It has taken proposed gun legislation to get many on the right involved in liberty, maybe this will cause another batch of so far uninterested folks to open their eyes and get off their asses..

[opal]

ya know.. I never actually wanted to quit smoking. Hubby had to to have some surgery - damn surgeon wouldn't do it unless his cotine (I think that's the substance they check the blood for related to nicotine) was below some unspoken level) so we both went ahead and got the e-cigs.
for me, the quitting was easy, comparatively. I had tried once or twice before - half halfheartedly.. always wanting to be the rebel against society.

there are so many choices with e cigs.. and so many *starter kits* are just crap, it's almost daunting.

I'm pretty sure that some big tobacco entity bought the blu e-cig brand. I think this means now regulation is much more certain than banning. I have a small back stock of plain nicotine juice, but most of what I vape now is no nic.. I just like the taste..feel.. action of vaping.

[Origanalist]

I think most folks agree that this is another area government doesn't need to be involved in, that said;

I see this as possibly another tipping point......It has taken proposed gun legislation to get many on the right involved in liberty, maybe this will cause another batch of so far uninterested folks to open their eyes and get off their asses..

I've been saying that about a lot of things for a lot of years.

[jkob]

They could ban it and there wouldn't be much of a wimper. Remember Four Loko?

THINK OF THE CHILDREN

*BANNED*

[phill4paul]

If yours only worked for one month, it's likely because you got ahold of a crappy one.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/forum.php

Sorry, I can see where that reads confusing. The e cig still works. I just went back to RYO.

[Natural Citizen]

There is no reason other than the tobacco lobby to ban them.

Is a clear demonstration of growth versus survival. Two different brands of person versus each other for representation of, by and for themselves. Will have to wait to see who the old of, by and for gag serves, I suppose. The actual person who eats, sleeps, walk, talks and in this case "vapes" so he doesn't remain addicted to the product or...the theoretical person seeking representation of, by and for who does not eat, breath walk or talk and exists solely upon paper with full first amendment rights. This theoretical feller demands addiction and subsequent death of the human person to render growth for the fake me out variety his person.

Once upon a time citizenship meant something if one were human. Now it spells doom for them. We the people in the manner in which they were once understood to be is broken. Lobbyists have replaced the want for statesmen. Growth trumps survival and now corporations rule the day. This is not the free market everyone yaps about. What we have is a merge of corporation and state. Government controlled markets because corporations are your government. These are the "people" who enjoy representation and repatriate the term of, by and for.

And if we continue to let them then corporations like monsanto will have you and your offspring and then theirs as well paying them residuals by the time they're done chemically altering your personhood. They'll own you. This can only happen when useful idiots think they are supporting the free market and don't ask their potential representatives what their position is on these sciences. And so the reps support the corporation without question. Anyhoo. I'm rambling again.

[itshappening]

Folks, it's a NICOTINE DELIVERY DEVICE!!

This is SHOCKING, where's 60 minutes and Jeffrey Wigand?

Where's the Attorney General and the States? Someone has to be sued to pay billions in settlements.

Maybe they can sue the chinese manufacturers of them? Good luck with that!

Maybe they can sue the mail order businesses or the mom and pops selling them? HA!

They're screwed. So damn screwed.

The only remedy is to point and laugh at them and expose them for the hypocrites and liars that they are.

These guys nearly shut down and bankrupted an entire industry causing untold damage and job losses for doing the same damn thing just 15 years ago.

Burn in hell, Feds.

[TheGrinch]

My e-cig worked for one month. I coupled that with a one month gym membership. I was pleased with the results but life changed and I went back to R.Y.O. An e-cig is not a substitute. It does not have the taste or the ceremony involved. It doesn't have the proper smoke.
I still think they are great. There is no reason other than the tobacco lobby to ban them.

Sorry, my keyboard crapped out on me, so have been able to type a long response before now.

First off, if you were using the disposable ones, those are crap. They're expensive, they break easily, and they don't hit the back of your throat like a real cigarette will. However, I've been using the kind that you refill with the liquid, and have found a few that mimic the smoke and the taste quite well (though I like the other flavors as well, like coffee and "weed", which really doesn't taste like it, but I found to be the best at mimicing the smoking feeling).

It's also currently way cheaper, as a $13 bottle of liquid can last me weeks, even constantly vaping like I am now to be able to cut back from over a pack a day to just 2-5 a day.

I will say that it is not the best thing for a person trying to ween their dependence on nicotine, because it's actually probably gotten more addicted to nicotine to where I'm starting to have to start holding back on vaping, as it is even making my cravings for cigarettes stronger at times or my craving to at least vape more frequent than just every 45 minutes to an hour.

However, it does work great for being able to hold off the cravings for as long as humanly possible, and for your lighter smokers is ideal for completely replacing traditional cigarettes, as they tend to have an easier time not vaping constantly and letting the nicotine addiction get to them.

In short, it is a great safe alternative to smoking, but cannot replace will-power needed to kick the addiction. I know that my end game is not to jsut switch from one nicotine addiction for another one, even if it is healthier and enjoyable. My goal is to stop being a slave to the addiction.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Wow this is great. Next we can remove the heavy metals out of our grocery foods. Wait, that's safe? Hmmm.

[itshappening]

Looking at e-cigs... not sure what to order.

Do i get the cartomizer kit or the e-liquid kit?

The vendor suggests you start with the cartomizer (complete with charger and refills) but then they would say that so they can hit you up for the other kit later on.

Thoughts?

[Lucille]

Looking at e-cigs... not sure what to order.

Do i get the cartomizer kit or the e-liquid kit?

The vendor suggests you start with the cartomizer (complete with charger and refills) but then they would say that so they can hit you up for the other kit later on.

Thoughts?

Order the starter kit and see how it goes. Refilling is a PITA. What brand? I just ordered a V2 (http://www.v2cigs.com/) which rates #1 by most reviews. Still waiting for it! (Coupon code: ECR15KITS)

[TheGrinch]

Looking at e-cigs... not sure what to order.

Do i get the cartomizer kit or the e-liquid kit?

The vendor suggests you start with the cartomizer (complete with charger and refills) but then they would say that so they can hit you up for the other kit later on.

Thoughts?

I had a cartomizer one that worked decent (until I accidentally got it wet, and then after I bought another kit and they discontinued selling the cartomizers, another reason the liquid is preferable as it can be refilled with anyone's liquid), but the ones who I've talked to who've had the msot success used the liquid kind.

Though the one thing I don't like about the liquid kind is that it looks like this little cigar shaped machine, rather than looking like an actual cigarette. Makes for a different feel in the hand and kinda akward using it in public, though not so much so that I don't.

[TheGrinch]

Order the starter kit and see how it goes. Refilling is a PITA. What brand? I just ordered a V2 (http://www.v2cigs.com/) which rates #1 by most reviews. Still waiting for it! (Coupon code: ECR15KITS)

I don't know what kind you're using that refilling is a PITA. I just unscrew to mouthpiece, fill it up to the line from the little eye-dropper bottle, and it's good to go. Keeping it charged is the only PITA with any of them, but with a full charge will easily last all day.

This is the brand I use BTW, but I know there are other ones that should be comparable: http://www.elitepuffs.com/

[TheGrinch]

Actually to clarify on the nicotine addiction part, if you do find yourself in the habit of vaping, but want to cut down on the nicotine, you can gradually cut out the nicotine until you could even end up just vaping nicotine-free glycerol in time.

[Lucille]

I don't know what kind you're using that refilling is a PITA. I just unscrew to mouthpiece, fill it up to the line from the little eye-dropper bottle, and it's good to go. Keeping it charged is the only PITA with any of them, but with a full charge will easily last all day.

This is the brand I use BTW, but I know there are other ones that should be comparable: http://www.elitepuffs.com/

Keeping it charged is a PITA too! I'm hoping my new one's battery is better. It's supposed to be! I have Vapor Kings Joye 510, so it's a different type than yours. I've read the tank systems are easier and better, but my ecig looks and feels more like an analog (which I want).

[opal]

Very few cig-a-likes are going to have much of a battery time before recharging. You'll want to look at the mAh ratings on the batteries - the bigger the number, the longer the battery will last.

Smokeless image (SI) has 65mm and 78mm long cig-a-like batteries and I'm pretty sure their mAh # are over 300 when some of those *kits* are a whopping 160.. if that. That's why kits generally include two batteries.
I have several of those SI batteries.. 1 of the 65s and lets just to with several of the 78s (they have lots of colors.. I like colors) .. good CS and a 3 month warrantee sold me on those folks for gear.

Start up costs on e-cigs gave me sticker shock but compared to the price of say a carton of smokes.. well, it evens out unless ya go nuts - which can be done. I'm kind of a juice aholic - and not for the nicotine, most of my juice doesn't have nicotine in it anymore.
I'm replacing snacks with it too.

[itshappening]

I ordered the cartomizer version with enough refills for 500 cigarettes.

I hope it delivers enough nicotine to satisfy. This is after all an evil nicotine delivery device which 60 minutes needs to expose.

Arrives tomorrow so i'll let you know.

[Lindsey]

My partner uses Smoketip. Every time you re-order they send you another battery, so he usually keeps 4 or 6 in rotation, so there is one constantly charged. The batteries don't last long at all. The claims for cigarette equivalency are exaggerated. The cartomizer cartridges are very unevenly filled, but otherwise no issues with them. He has been using them on and off for ~2ish years, with no intention of quitting.

I like them because the smell is much better than regular smokes and I am not constantly cleaning up ash or finding burn holes in things. (I swear he is the clumsiest smoker ever.)

[hardrightedge]

If anyone else decides to e-cig... I suggest skipping the cartomizers...they are great for 1 or 2 refills...after that they are shit...get yourself a vivi nova and a decent battery...

[itshappening]

E-cig arrived.

Thoughts:

It provides a clean hit of nicotine and seems ok.

There appears to be a desire to constantly vape with it... there's no end so you can easily consume more than you would when using a normal cigarette which you have to put out at some point.

Under these circumstances i've no idea how long the cartridges will last and if its worth it.

I suppose i'll get the liquid kit at some point which is much more cost effective in the long run.

[itshappening]

Vaping is pretty good. I'm enjoying it.

It provides a nice clean hit and an effective delivery of nicotine.

Although I fear i'm using it too much and will have to use the liquid version when i'm finished with the cartridges.

They better not ban this!

[fr33]

As far as messy refilling goes, all of the clearomizers I've seen are easy to refill without making a mess. The fact that you have to clean them occasionally is what sucks. I use an eRoll (http://www.joyetech.com/product/eRoll.php) when out in public and it's cartridges are a pain to refill because you have to use a syringe or a needle cap on your bottle.

Anyways, I don't think they will ban e-cigs. They will create a licensing and regulation system that will let the same oligarchy running big tobacco run the e-cig industry. Some circumstantial evidence to me is Richard Carmona joining NJOY's board. (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/03/richard-carmona-joining-e-cigarette-board-89262.html) He is a former Surgeon General who supports banning all tobacco products and NJOY is an e-cig company owned by a big tobacco corporation.

[Lucille]

Re refilling carts. I got prefilled ones with my v2, and I now have the condom to do this, so it's no longer a PITA!:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sjh2hsZcjco

I love the v2. It's the best one I've had yet.

[Dogsoldier]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flXtE8hb6cs

[Dogsoldier]

And what about 1 of these for pot?...You could smoke it in front of a cop and he wouldn't know...lol....This is an awsome idea...

[Dogsoldier]

You could make your own eliquid using pretty much any drug couldn't you?

[opal]

You could make your own eliquid using pretty much any drug couldn't you?

I suppose that would be possible but how would you know if your solution was useful?

Let's use asprin as an example.
You could take an asprin and disolve it in one of the carrier bases.. or a blend (PG and or VG) and vape it... first you'd need to know if that particular med actually was changed at all by the carrier.
Then you'd need to test to see how small the molecules got in solution to see if they'd permiate any of your mouth/throat/lung membranes or just end up irritating the mucus membranes on the vapor path.
Another problem is the coil fire temp. If you're using a drug that's not weed or some other combustable.. how would you know if the e cig vaporizer did weird shit to your drug in the heating process?

I'm sure there are many more concerns but with just those few.. why would ya wanna try?

[Bohner]

I use Vapor4Life (that basically uses a battery and disposable carts), as well as 36mg juice.

Absolutely love vaping, even more-so than smoking. It's so much cleaner, no coughing, no bad breath, can do it indoors without bothering anyone, and no waking up the next morning wreaking of cigarette smoke after a night on the town chain smoking. It's really all the good about smoking with none of the bad.

I'd recommend it to anyone who smokes. Just do your research before buying one and stay away from the infomercial/TV type brands as they tend to be way overpriced and suck balls (most people who quit vaping quit because they did zero research before buying and bought a shitty brand).

I have been doing it for a couple years now.

[DamianTV]

That is exactly why they want it illegal.