Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz bashed on LewRockwell.com

[Christian Liberty]

http://lewrockwell.com/rossini/rossini14.1.html

Marco Rubio is no surprise to me at all and this just confirms what I already thought I knew. While he's not a Lindsey Graham or a John Mccain, Rubio is not really serious about cutting government. We all pretty much knew this.

Ted Cruz, on the other hand, seems to be somewhat popular on here. He did a good job on the 2nd amendmnet recently, but its also obvious that he's wrong on social security.

Hoow is Ted Cruz in general? What exactly does he believe in? Is he actually on the "liberty" team, as it were? Is this LRC author correct or no?

Discuss.

[FrankRep]

I like Ted Cruz.


Here's the only thing that Ted Cruz is being attacked on (http://lewrockwell.com/rossini/rossini14.1.html):



Here's Ted Cruz now on Social Security and Medicare (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/republicans-applaud-chained-cpi-in-obama-budget-89831.html#ixzz2QAzLhWF5):


“I’m encouraged by any steps that President Obama is taking to save and preserve Social Security and Medicare.”

“I think it should be a bipartisan priority to strengthen Social Security and Medicare to preserve the benefits for existing seniors and to enact fundamental reform to ensure that those programs remain strong and vital for generations to come.”


Touching Medicare and Social Security is political suicide. Ted Cruz is being smart.




Even Ron Paul won't touch Medicare.

Ron Paul: I Will Preserve Medicare (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/10/ron-paul-i-will-preserve-medicare/)
ABC News - Oct 1, 2011

[itshappening]

Cruz hasn't done anything wrong yet but i'm still suspicious of him.

He also accepted an invite to speak in SC when Rand wanted that spot.

So lets hope he doesn't get any ideas above his station.

LRC bashes every single politician so it's not unusual. They don't even believe in politics and want to 'secede'.

Someone should tell Rossini that Ron endorsed Cruz...

Does this make him a traitor/collaborator etc ?

[compromise]

It says it was reprinted from the EPJ, so no surprise.

Cruz is the patriot and definitely in the top 3 Senators.

[A Son of Liberty]

Even Ron Paul won't touch Medicare.


It's not exactly accurate to say that Ron wasn't going to "touch" Medicare - Ron always stated that the plan was to roll back things on the foreign policy/wars side before tackling unconstitutional domestic spending, like Medicare.


They don't even believe in politics

That, of course, is the divide in this movement, right now. It's something we need to come to terms with. As one on the LRC side of things, even I've slowly started to come to terms with this...


and want to 'secede'.


What's wrong with secession??

[itshappening]

It's not exactly accurate to say that Ron wasn't going to "touch" Medicare - Ron always stated that the plan was to roll back things on the foreign policy/wars side before tackling unconstitutional domestic spending, like Medicare.



That, of course, is the divide in this movement, right now. It's something we need to come to terms with. As one on the LRC side of things, even I've slowly started to come to terms with this...



What's wrong with secession??

What's wrong with it? it's not happening. it's not viable. Take over the GOP.

[A Son of Liberty]

What's wrong with it? it's not happening. it's not viable. Take over the GOP.

Disagree. There are some folks out there doing some great work pushing nullification, interposition, and if all else fails secession.

It's perfectly viable and in my opinion a BETTER alternative than trying to take over the GOP... the focus, with party politics, will ALWAYS be on national elections and politicking. That is as much a source of the problem as anything. We do not - and should not - live and die by what goes on in Washington, D.C. The entire system really needs torn down. That is why I fall on the LRC side of this movement.

[itshappening]

Disagree. There are some folks out there doing some great work pushing nullification, interposition, and if all else fails secession.

It's perfectly viable and in my opinion a BETTER alternative than trying to take over the GOP... the focus, with party politics, will ALWAYS be on national elections and politicking. That is as much a source of the problem as anything. We do not - and should not - live and die by what goes on in Washington, D.C. The entire system really needs torn down. That is why I fall on the LRC side of this movement.

The secede mantra is ridiculous. No one wants to secede. It's an extreme minority position and not a viable political solution to our problems.

Nullification is fantastic and we must applaud Tom Woods who has done more than anyone to promote it.

[itshappening]

The biggest secession movement is probably in Vermont. They want an independent socialist state!

Texas is probably the MOST likely to want to leave the union but only when things collapse and the bills come due and that's happening for a while yet.

Maybe at that point Texans will be fed up enough and want to secede. The spirit is most strongest there and they were a Republic before.

But no other state will secede. Ever. They will go down with the ship.

So the secession mantra from Lew and LRC is pointless and a distraction.

[A Son of Liberty]

So the secession mantra from Lew and LRC is pointless and a distraction.

So don't waste your time with it.

I think the political mantra around here is pointless and DEADLY, as it will inevitably lead to an erosion of principles and won't do anything to stop the direction this country is going.

But I wish you all well. I just won't waste my time with it.

We all have our roles to play. There's no point in you telling folks who are well motivated in ways that you are not that their efforts are pointless. It's insulting, and degrading to the movement.

[itshappening]

So don't waste your time with it.

I think the political mantra around here is pointless and DEADLY, as it will inevitably lead to an erosion of principles and won't do anything to stop the direction this country is going.

But I wish you all well. I just won't waste my time with it.

We all have our roles to play. There's no point in you telling folks who are well motivated in ways that you are not that their efforts are pointless. It's insulting, and degrading to the movement.

The political strategy of operating within the existing structure is not really pointless. It' doable. It's viable. It's possible.

Secession is not.

Maybe for Texas and Vermont and when things collapse it might happen but it won't happen anywhere else.

Think about it logically.

When the Federal government collapses under its own weight then something may emerge from the wreckage.

There might be secession. There might be another Confederacy though I doubt it.

What I think will happen is that Washington will go bankrupt or near-bankrupt and will write off all the debt.

There might be major reforms. Welfare programs will have to go or be reformed to be essentially meaningless.

Medicare and SS is no good if the age is moved up to 85 or whatever.

Yes it still exists but only a small portion of the population will ever use it.

We can then claim to be "saving" it which is more politically palatable than outright abolishing it.

The public are easily fooled. Fool them but in a conservative way and a way that achieves our aims.

I think from the ruins we might get some constitutional amendments as well like balanced budget amendment or whatever.

[A Son of Liberty]

ONE. MORE. TIME:



We all have our roles to play. There's no point in you telling folks who are well motivated in ways that you are not that their efforts are pointless. It's insulting, and degrading to the movement.

ETA - I'm not going to disrespect you and the others here pushing for the political angle by telling you what I think about the strategy. I'm going to let you do your work, and wish you all the best.

[green73]

Oh secession will be plenty viable when the house of cards comes down.

[A Son of Liberty]

Oh secession will be plenty viable when the house of cards comes down.

And I would suggest that if we have any hope of living free, the this house of cards - the US government - MUST come down.

ETA for the feds reading this - 1., respect my rights as guaranteed by the first amendment... that should be all I need to say, but since it isn't - I am not now nor ever will be involved in any violent organizations, as a committed voluntaryist and peaceful human being. YOU will cause the "house of cards" to crumble without any help from the likes of me. Idiots.

[itshappening]

Oh secession will be plenty viable when the house of cards comes down.

And when's that going to happen? in 10 years, 20 years? And then you have to convince a majority in the state to put it on the ballot and vote for it.

That's damn near impossible to achieve.

And in the mean time what are we meant to do? Just watch the train wreck or do something?

[A Son of Liberty]

And when's that going to happen? in 10 years, 20 years? And then you have to convince a majority in the state to put it on the ballot and vote for it.

That's damn near impossible to achieve.

And in the mean time what are we meant to do? Just watch the train wreck or do something?

Do whatever moves you. That's what I'm doing.

[itshappening]

I want to save Medicare and Social Security by moving the eligibility age up to 90.

I'd be fine with that and we can sell it on the doorstep. We can pose as heroes.

[aclove]

I, personally, believe that good things can and will come from pushing the political involvement angle. I'm not content to wait for the system to collapse in on itself, and would like to help push policies that mitigate that outcome.

That being said, if we're complaining about people doing things that are a waste of time, surely it should be obvious that the thing at the very top of the list of time-wasters is berating people on an Internet forum who don't want to engage in the exact same kind of activism you do (whatever kind of activism that may be). Maybe they don't believe in voting. Maybe they object to watering down or shaping their message for various and sundry audiences. Maybe they just don't like Republicans and don't want to be around them.

Whatever their reasons, and however strongly you may disagree with them, you're not going to get them to change their minds by trying to shame them into doing things your way.

One of the first rules of political activism is to go after the low-hanging fruit. Voluntaryists who don't believe in political activism definitely don't qualify. Existing activist conservatives who may be more open to our message now that the GOP Establishment has pooch-screwed two consecutive Presidential elections do. I would suggest that it's more productive to focus your energy there.

[enhanced_deficit]

Rubio like Obama is a neocons puppet. Look at their funders.

[jkob]

Social Security and Medicare are pretty much the third rail of American politics. Ted Cruz could never get elected saying he wants to abolish them.

[A Son of Liberty]

Social Security and Medicare are pretty much the third rail of American politics. Ted Cruz could never get elected saying he wants to abolish them.

And this is why the education side of the movement is absolutely key.

[FrankRep]

And this is why the education side of the movement is absolutely key.
Politicians aren't in a position to educate people, if they want to get elected. It's your job as activists to educate.

[itshappening]

Social Security and Medicare are pretty much the third rail of American politics. Ted Cruz could never get elected saying he wants to abolish them.

Crank up the eligibility age. Means test them. They're still there but the damage is limited and you can pose as someone trying to "save" them.

'Save our Medicare! Save our SS! '

The Democrats dont want to save them? They're unreasonable, extreme, bankrupting the nation. Selling us out.

This is a terrific political strategy.

Promising to abolish them will not get you elected.

The public are fools and need to be fooled.

That's a way to do it.

[ClydeCoulter]

I want to save Medicare and Social Security by moving the eligibility age up to 90.

I'd be fine with that and we can sell it on the doorstep. We can pose as heroes.

Yea, just move the carrot...lie, steal, cheat, whatever. Not raising taxes, just removing deductions...blah, blah, blah