Flake considering selling out and joining Toomey

[compromise]

https://www.facebook.com/JeffFlake1/posts/10151606591721419

Tomorrow (Thursday) the Senate will have a cloture vote on the gun bill. Voting “yes” on cloture allows the bill to be debated. Since Majority Leader Reid has agreed to an open process on the bill, I will vote yes on cloture.

We are still waiting for the Manchin-Toomey bill language. Apparently, the aim of the Manchin-Toomey approach is to expand background checks but not make them universal. I'll post something here once I see the text.

I'm really disappointed by this. This is a guy who was one of the best in the House, a fiscal conservative that went so far as to call for immediate withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan and oppose Iran sanctions. He was a friend of Ron Paul and sided with him on many issues. When he ran for Senate, he received the endorsements of Justin Amash, Mike Lee, Jim DeMint, Liberty For All (libertarian super PAC), the Club for Growth, FreedomWorks and the Senate Conservatives Fund. This led me to donate significantly to his campaign and support his Senate run, thinking he would be another ally of Rand.

Disappointingly, he has become a moderate upon his arrival in the Senate. His only real achievements so far have been voting for the Rand Paul budget and joining Rand's Brennan filibuster, but even that was for 2 minutes and later, along with his new close ally John McCain, he voted for Brennan's nomination anyway. Given his atrocious record so far, I fear he may sell out again on guns. Since he claims to be undecided on this, I urge Arizonans to contact him immediately to ensure he does not vote in favor of Manchin-Toomey.

EDIT - Flake has clarified a little:

I appreciate the comments on this page, even though they are overwhelming critical of my "yes" vote on cloture on the gun bill.

Let me explain why I voted to proceed to debate on the floor, even though I am opposed to the gun bill that emerged from the Judiciary Committee.

The Senate has been dysfunctional for some time now. For years, Democrats have routinely refused to allow Republican amendments on bills that reach the Senate floor, and consequently, Republicans have routinely refused to allow these bills to reach the floor. That's no way to run the Senate.

On the gun bill, Senator Reid has committed to an open amendment process on the floor, and consequently, a sufficient number of Republicans voted today to allow debate on the bill.

A yes vote on cloture is not a vote to pass the bill - it is simply a vote to begin debate. Just as a 60 vote threshold is required to begin debate, a 60 vote threshold will be required to end debate.

I support the 2nd Amendment. If the bill in its final form is inconsistent with the 2nd Amendment, I will vote against it.

[Brett85]

He's actually been pretty bad the last two or three years. He doesn't have the same record that he started out with.

[compromise]

He's actually been pretty bad the last two or three years. He doesn't have the same record that he started out with.

He did very well with the Club for Growth and FreedomWorks in the last 2-3.
CFG: 2012 - 96%, 2011 - 100%, 2010 - 100%, Lifetime - 100%
FW: 2012 - 100%, 2011 - 97%, 2010 - 100%, Lifetime - 99%

Here are a couple of his good House votes in the last 2-3 years where he went against the party line:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/112-2011/h412 (2011)
Flake - YES (87 Repub yes votes)

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/112-2012/h579 (2012)
Flake - NO (70 Repub no votes)

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/112-2012/h370 (2012)
Flake - NO (only 16 Repub no votes)

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/112-2011/h418 (2011)
Flake - NO (only 5 Repub no votes - the others were Jimmy Duncan, Amash, Campbell and Ron Paul)

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/112-2012/h498 (2012)
Flake - NO (only 11 Repub no votes)

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/112-2011/h147 (2011)
Flake - NO (only 3 Repub no votes - the others were Walter Jones and Campbell, even Amash caved on this one)

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/112-2011/h409 (2011)
Flake - NO (only 20 Repub no votes)

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/111-2010/h474 (2010)
Flake - NO (only 12 Repub no votes)

[seyferjm]

I've been disappointed with him and Coburn lately

[compromise]

I've been disappointed with him and Coburn lately

Yeah, Coburn's also been a problem. It seems all the guys who have been around a long time (Coburn, Toomey and Flake) are the ones selling out.

[Christian Liberty]

This is why we need purists like Ron Paul and why I don't really endorse Rand Paul's "Appeal to the masses" strategy. The higher up you go, the more corrupting politics is. There's NOBODY that I truly trust with the Presidency. Let's just be purists and take as many of "Them" down with us as we can. The game is rigged, you can't win.

[Brian4Liberty]

Flake has lived up to his name.

First he is in the Amnesty Gang of Eight, now he is joining this expensive, counter-productive background check and gun control nonsense. Neo-conned again.

[compromise]

He opposed universal background checks as recently as 2 days ago.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/04/10/1200537/-Sen-Jeff-Flake-Fears-Background-Checks-Will-Lead-to-Paperwork-and-Other-Boring-Stuff

[Acala]

He opposed universal background checks as recently as 2 days ago.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/04/10/1200537/-Sen-Jeff-Flake-Fears-Background-Checks-Will-Lead-to-Paperwork-and-Other-Boring-Stuff

Opposing the filibuster is not NECESSARILY the same as supporting the legislation. We shall see shortly.

[compromise]

Opposing the filibuster is not NECESSARILY the same as supporting the legislation. We shall see shortly.

True. I'm praying he will oppose the legislation.

[AJ Antimony]

Flake has lived up to his name.

First he is in the Amnesty Gang of Eight, now he is joining this expensive, counter-productive background check and gun control nonsense. Neo-conned again.

He seems hellbent on trying to position himself as Mr. Moderate rather than staying the same Jeff Flake who won a promotion to the Senate, and yes, this is very irritating. But to be fair, he still has not voted on any gun or immigration legislation.

[compromise]

He seems hellbent on trying to position himself as Mr. Moderate rather than staying the same Jeff Flake who won a promotion to the Senate, and yes, this is very irritating. But to be fair, he still has not voted on any gun or immigration legislation.

But why does he need to be a moderate? I'd understand if he was in California, but Arizona is still a conservative state.

[RonPaulMall]

Opposing the filibuster is not NECESSARILY the same as supporting the legislation. We shall see shortly.

Actually, since the Dems control the Senate and there are more than a few pro gun control Repubs, it is the same thing. This was the one and only shot to stop this abomination in the Senate, and Flake chose to stand with Chuck Schummer rather than Rand. Sickening.

[LibertyEagle]

But why does he need to be a moderate? I'd understand if he was in California, but Arizona is still a conservative state.

Reminder. That same state has kept McCain in office for decades and he is about as far away from a conservative as one could possibly get.

[Acala]

Actually, since the Dems control the Senate and there are more than a few pro gun control Repubs, it is the same thing. This was the one and only shot to stop this abomination in the Senate, and Flake chose to stand with Chuck Schummer rather than Rand. Sickening.

I don't think this was the only shot to stop it in the Senate. But we shall see . . .

[compromise]

Reminder. That same state has kept McCain in office for decades and he is about as far away from a conservative as one could possibly get.

But what about the Senator that preceded McCain?

[itshappening]

Jeff has offered a lame excuse for his sell out:

https://www.facebook.com/JeffFlake1?ref=ts&fref=ts

Someone should tell him the Dems have 55 votes and his vote against it if he doesn't like it is meaningless.

[AJ Antimony]

But why does he need to be a moderate? I'd understand if he was in California, but Arizona is still a conservative state.

Who the hell knows. The campaign probably just got to his head. But again, if he ends up voting the same as he always has, then it's not too big a deal.

[AJ Antimony]

Jeff has offered a lame excuse for his sell out:

https://www.facebook.com/JeffFlake1?ref=ts&fref=ts

Someone should tell him the Dems have 55 votes and his vote against it if he doesn't like it is meaningless.

Oh come on. He has some fair points there. GOP Senators have been abusing the filibuster under Harry Reid because Reid doesn't allow votes on GOP amendments. In exchange for Republicans to drop the filibuster, he's going to allow GOP amendments to this gun bill. Seems like a reasonable trade to me, especially knowing the following:

"Just as a 60 vote threshold is required to begin debate, a 60 vote threshold will be required to end debate."

According to Sen. Flake, Republicans can still filibuster before final passage. Do you disagree?

[sailingaway]

from twitter:


according to Amy ‏@Amyloukingery 3m
Alert: Please make a comment on Sen Toomey's FACEBOOK page… Its on fire!! Over 3300+ others already have. http://on.fb.me/10NsEmr

[TomtheTinker]

#FlakeFolds

[itshappening]

Oh come on. He has some fair points there. GOP Senators have been abusing the filibuster under Harry Reid because Reid doesn't allow votes on GOP amendments. In exchange for Republicans to drop the filibuster, he's going to allow GOP amendments to this gun bill. Seems like a reasonable trade to me, especially knowing the following:

"Just as a 60 vote threshold is required to begin debate, a 60 vote threshold will be required to end debate."

According to Sen. Flake, Republicans can still filibuster before final passage. Do you disagree?

The Bill should have been killed before it hit the floor.

You have no idea what the president and the US media has in store for us this weekend. By the time they're finished half the GOP will vote to ban so called assault weapons and place restrictions on magazines and so they will break 60 votes and any filibuster of final passage.

So no, it's not a good excuse at all because now we're going to be subjected to days and days of Newtown relatives weeping and the president demanding action, Bloomberg running ads everywhere and pulling out every stop to get bans, restrictions and checks in place.

Under those circumstances if Flake doesn't like the Bill his vote against it DOES NOT MATTER.

KILL THE BILL.

[qh4dotcom]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/77139_442691992479960_1414602479_n.jpg

[itshappening]

I had a lot of hope for Jeff Flake but he's been seriously unimpressive for about a year or so and barely won his race in deep Red Arizona.

He must have ran 10 points behind Romney?

Pathetic, Jeff.

[AJ Antimony]

I had a lot of hope for Jeff Flake but he's been seriously unimpressive for about a year or so and barely won his race in deep Red Arizona.

He must have ran 10 points behind Romney?

Pathetic, Jeff.

If you could bother yourself to learn a thing or two (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=2012+arizona+senate+election) about that particular election, then maybe you'd understand why it was a tight race.

[itshappening]

If you could bother yourself to learn a thing or two (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=2012+arizona+senate+election) about that particular election, then maybe you'd understand why it was a tight race.

It's late, perhaps you can give me the summary

[unknown]

I have to wonder, are they being blackmailed? Dafuq is going on?

[compromise]

It's late, perhaps you can give me the summary

His Dem rival was a Bush appointee and a "centrist".

[HOLLYWOOD]

Another CON ARTIST... Jeff Flake is big .gov garbage... loves the Patriot Act too.

Whatever happen to US Senator Flake's, "I pledged to serve no more than three terms in Congress."
Flake has served 6 terms in the House of Representatives and now is in his 1st term the US Senate

Term-limit pledges get left behind
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-04-12-term-limits_x.htm

The Sunlight Foundation also reported that Flake’s campaign committee has been paying his wife for campaign fundraising and administrative work

http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2006/04/12/flake-large.jpg

[compromise]

Another CON ARTIST... Jeff Flake is big .gov garbage... loves the Patriot Act too.

Whatever happen to US Senator Flake's, "I pledged to serve no more than three terms in Congress."
Flake has served 6 terms in the House of Representatives and now is in his 1st term the US Senate

Term-limit pledges get left behind
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-04-12-term-limits_x.htm

The Sunlight Foundation also reported that Flake’s campaign committee has been paying his wife for campaign fundraising and administrative work

http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2006/04/12/flake-large.jpg

Sanford also did a term limit pledge while in the House. This isn't that important.

[heavenlyboy34]

But why does he need to be a moderate? I'd understand if he was in California, but Arizona is still a conservative state.
Yeah, but less so as time goes on (at least from my perspective in Phoenix. There's a somewhat different culture up in the mountainous north). It's because of the immigrants you people from the east and west coasts send here, IMO. :P ;)

[HOLLYWOOD]

Sanford also did a term limit pledge while in the House. This isn't that important.Okay, if broken promises/commitments are minor, Flake's recent voting record: http://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/28128/jeff-flake/?p=1

March 7, 2013 PN 48 Nomination of John Brennan to be Director of the Central Intelligence Agency Nomination Confirmed - Yea
Sept 13, 2012 HR 6365 National Security and Job Protection Act ($650 Billion in tax increases) Bill Passed - Yea
May 18, 2012 HR 4310 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for Fiscal Year 2013 Bill Passed - Yea
May 18, 2012 H Amdt 1127 Repeals Indefinite Military Detention Provisions Amendment Rejected - Nay
May 18, 2012 H Amdt 1140 Prohibits Reductions to Strategic Nuclear Arms Required by New START Amendment Adopted - Yea
May 17, 2012 H Amdt 1103 Limits Funding for War in Afghanistan to the Withdrawal of U.S. Forces Amendment Rejected - Nay
May 16, 2012 HR 4970 Violence Against Women Reauthorization Act of 2012 Bill Passed - House - Yea
April 26, 2012 HR 3523 Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act (CISPA) Bill Passed - Yea

[AJ Antimony]

Okay, if broken promises/commitments are minor, Flake's recent voting record: http://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/28128/jeff-flake/?p=1

March 7, 2013 PN 48 Nomination of John Brennan to be Director of the Central Intelligence Agency Nomination Confirmed - Yea
Sept 13, 2012 HR 6365 National Security and Job Protection Act ($650 Billion in tax increases) Bill Passed - Yea
May 18, 2012 HR 4310 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for Fiscal Year 2013 Bill Passed - Yea
May 18, 2012 H Amdt 1127 Repeals Indefinite Military Detention Provisions Amendment Rejected - Nay
May 18, 2012 H Amdt 1140 Prohibits Reductions to Strategic Nuclear Arms Required by New START Amendment Adopted - Yea
May 17, 2012 H Amdt 1103 Limits Funding for War in Afghanistan to the Withdrawal of U.S. Forces Amendment Rejected - Nay
May 16, 2012 HR 4970 Violence Against Women Reauthorization Act of 2012 Bill Passed - House - Yea
April 26, 2012 HR 3523 Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act (CISPA) Bill Passed - Yea

Right, and I can cherrypick votes where he was among 2-10 Republicans voting NO, even under Republican leadership. This forum has been debating Jeff Flake for a long time and we are right where we've always been: He is one of the better Republicans, but not a Ron Paul Republican. Welcome to last year.

And again, with regards to this thread, he still has not voted one way or the other on gun or immigration legislation in the Senate.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Right, and I can cherrypick votes where he was among 2-10 Republicans voting NO, even under Republican leadership. This forum has been debating Jeff Flake for a long time and we are right where we've always been: He is one of the better Republicans, but not a Ron Paul Republican. Welcome to last year.

And again, with regards to this thread, he still has not voted one way or the other on gun or immigration legislation in the Senate.NDAA, Indefinite Detention without judicial process, labeling any American a Terorrist, assassinating them is not cherry picking. Hell, I'd applaud the man if he just voted for Sandy relief and Cash for Clunkers over directly violating the US Constitution and endangering all Americans. Flake has continued to fail with his votes on all major issues, property rights, very expensive issues in wealth, freedom, liberty, and life. CISPA has to be the second most important issue, behind NDAA for 2012. Flake failed on both... he's garbage.

[compromise]

Flake voted against NDAA 2012 in 2011. I'm not sure why he backed the 2013 NDAA.

[kcchiefs6465]

Right, and I can cherrypick votes where he was among 2-10 Republicans voting NO, even under Republican leadership. This forum has been debating Jeff Flake for a long time and we are right where we've always been: He is one of the better Republicans, but not a Ron Paul Republican. Welcome to last year.

And again, with regards to this thread, he still has not voted one way or the other on gun or immigration legislation in the Senate.
Besides the fact that Jeff Flake's staff hardly answer their phones and that has personally annoyed me, he is hardly a defender of liberty in any sense of the word.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Flake voted against NDAA 2012 in 2011. I'm not sure why he backed the 2013 NDAA.True, we do know, it's the 2013 NDAA that has all the bad unconstitutional provisions. Even if Flake could of justified the DOD expenses of NDAA 2013, he could of voted for the GOP Indefinite Detention removal section amendment, which he did not. Maybe a guess, not looking at his campaign financing, but I'm bettin he's voting accordingly(Special Interest) in getting that funding for his US Senate run. They usually set this up a year or two before the general election.

[AJ Antimony]

NDAA, Indefinite Detention without judicial process, labeling any American a Terorrist, assassinating them is not cherry picking. Hell, I'd applaud the man if he just voted for Sandy relief and Cash for Clunkers over directly violating the US Constitution and endangering all Americans. Flake has continued to fail with his votes on all major issues, property rights, very expensive issues in wealth, freedom, liberty, and life. CISPA has to be the second most important issue, behind NDAA for 2012. Flake failed on both... he's garbage.

Flake actually voted AGAINST the NDAA with the indefinite detention provision. There's a HUGE thread on this website that discusses that vote in detail. Basically, the NDAA that had that provision he voted against, and all the NDAAs since then do NOT actually contain that provision, since it's already law.

[AJ Antimony]

True, we do know, it's the 2013 NDAA that has all the bad unconstitutional provisions. Even if Flake could of justified the DOD expenses of NDAA 2013, he could of voted for the GOP Indefinite Detention removal section amendment, which he did not. Maybe a guess, not looking at his campaign financing, but I'm bettin he's voting accordingly(Special Interest) in getting that funding for his US Senate run. They usually set this up a year or two before the general election.

Wrong. The NDAA of FY 2012 (signed in 2011) is the legislation containing indefinite detention. Jeff Flake voted NO.