65,000 high tech jobs created in just 5 days!

[madengr]

H1B visa cap reached in 5 days. Extrapolate this to 52 weeks, that would be 3.38M jobs in a year. WOOT! Economic recovery! :rolleyes:

I wonder how many applications were actually filed? I know some corporations wanted to raise it to +300k. So why did job creation rate plunge (http://www.cnbc.com/id/100618938) last month?

http://www.emirates247.com/h1-b-visa-seekers-face-us-lottery-after-cap-reached-in-5-days-2013-04-06-1.501517


A federal US agency has announced that it has received more petitions than the Congressional mandated quota on the most sought after work visas for IT professionals – the H-1B.

The Indian media quoting news agency PTI reported that the quota had been filled up in just five days and now, for the first time after 2008, a computerised draw of lots will decide the successful applicants.

Emirates 24|7 had reported that the number of H-1B visas issued by the US could double under a new Senate immigration proposal that would remove the cap on Green Cards, it is being reported. However, with the cap getting filled the report had stated that the lottery system would be in place.

Now, the US Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) announced that it would no longer accept applications for the H-1B visas for the fiscal year 2014 beginning October 1, 2013, the Congressional mandated cap for which is 65,000 as it has received sufficient applications for this.

USCIS has also received more than 20,000 H-1B petitions filed on behalf of persons exempt from the cap under the advanced degree exemption.

"USCIS will use a computer-generated random selection process (commonly known as the "lottery") for all FY 2014 cap-subject petitions received through April 5, 2013," the statement said.

"The agency will conduct the selection process for advanced degree exemption petitions first.

All advanced degree petitions not selected will be part of the random selection process for the 65,000 limit," the USCIS was quoted as saying.

Due to the high number of petitions received, USCIS is not yet able to announce the exact day of the random selection process.

USCIS will continue to accept and process petitions that are otherwise exempt from the cap, the statement said.

According to the PTI report, the lottery for the H-1B cap was last used in April 2008, when the cap was filled on the first day itself.

Last year in 2012, it took 73 days for the USCIS to fill in the cap, while in took 235 days to receive applications to fill the 65,000 H-1B numbers in 2011; 300 days in 2010, and 264 days in 2009.

In 2008 and 2007 the caps were reached in the first few days.

[VBRonPaulFan]

tech jobs are and have been in high demand for a while. the competition for those kinds of jobs is high, and the kind of people that US schools are producing are generally not smart enough to fill these types of spots. as a result, a lot of the big/mid sized tech companies are preferring to hiring H1B type contractors to fill their needs because they can't afford to hire some dumb ass 23 year old American kid who dicked off all through public school, and then went to an ECPI or ITT school and didn't learn anything about the trade they went to school for.

that's the result of a federal policy of 'every kid should go to college'. the focus ends up on quantity of graduates, not quality. so you end up with a ton of people with a degree that haven't really been taught anything and aren't interested in learning the trade they went to school for.

[HOLLYWOOD]

AND... at a 25%-50% salary/expense discount compared to US born tech workers.

Seen this organized racketeering many many times... even the HR (Industrial Relations) departments have confirmed, this is the motive in bringing foreign tech workers to America. Well, they've gone from outdoor cheap labor to indoor cubicle cheap labor.

It's the race to the bottom in America to balance economic slavery across the New World Order globe... lower pay/benefits, higher taxes & fees, inflation through FIAT toilet paper currency devaluation Y-O-Y for a century.

[lib3rtarian]

The college education in the US is really shitty. A very close relative of mine will graduate this June out of a college in NY with a computer science degree and she knows very little and she was taught very little. I had to help her with her C/C++ assignments. They don't teach them the kind of skills the employers are looking for. Plus, the colleges make them take all these mandatory courses in English, psychology and shit like that, which has nothing to do with computer science and wastes time. The colleges spend 10x the time and money on sports than teaching.

The Indian colleges churn out computer science graduates like sausages out of a machine. While they are not that sharp either on an average, they are better than their American counterparts and costs half the money to hire and keep. Businesses want to maximize profit so they go for the H1B folks.

[Brian4Liberty]

"Now hiring - Americans need not apply".

[Brian4Liberty]

tech jobs are and have been in high demand for a while. the competition for those kinds of jobs is high, and the kind of people that US schools are producing are generally not smart enough to fill these types of spots. as a result, a lot of the big/mid sized tech companies are preferring to hiring H1B type contractors to fill their needs because they can't afford to hire some dumb ass 23 year old American kid who dicked off all through public school, and then went to an ECPI or ITT school and didn't learn anything about the trade they went to school for.

that's the result of a federal policy of 'every kid should go to college'. the focus ends up on quantity of graduates, not quality. so you end up with a ton of people with a degree that haven't really been taught anything and aren't interested in learning the trade they went to school for.

That sounds an awful lot like the standard propaganda talking points that would come from Bill Gates, the US Chamber of Commerce, Obama, or any other politician.

"Not smart enough"? Education does not equal intelligence. A intelligent person can learn on the job. And that is how it used to work. Education is a foundation to build on.

Yes, some US College degrees are a joke. Some of them are excellent. The same could be said for Universites in other countries.

What has happened is that US companies have come to this place where they don't want to hire a junior level person, because a bunch of headhunters and consulting firms have convinced all of corporate America that they can provide experienced people at a cheaper rate. No more need to develop anyone.

And the catch? It's a big fucking lie! These headhunters and consulting companies just hire new college grads and lie that they are "senior".

What we have right now is institutionalized ignorance, fed by fraud, greed and massive propaganda from those who stand to benefit.

[HOLLYWOOD]

"Now hiring - Americans need not apply".Anyone who's been in High Tech knows this story. Even witnessed American workers laidoff/fired and replace with foreign workers at half the salary. The business just 'reclassifies the position with a different title/job description, but fill the same cubicles, working on the same projects.... Big Biz does this 'reclassification' loophole to get around the illusion of labors laws, etc.

Yes, huge profit centers at secondary US education to enriching the faculty/administrative pools and their retirement pkgs, as long as the money flows in, the bar is lowered, seats are filled, and most will pass the curriculum(s).

Such a paradox today, as corporate HR departments use that 4/6 year certificates as a initial screening mechanism and many US firms won't even hire new employees without 'Medallion stamped paper', even for trivial positions. All under the umbrella of the employee focuses on comprehension/accomplishment of those 2-4-6 years educational degrees.

Though, if you can get anyone from around the world to do the job for half the price, they will be hired. The economic work trend will continue downward and it appears the only place for job security are government jobs requiring; NOFORN/high security clearances.

PS: Remember the guy who got caught outsourcing his job to China? He received excellent annual performance reports... Well, there are security risks to outsourcing/exporting controlled source code to foreign nations to reduce costs, so how do you get around this?

...Bring the cheap labor into the US.

The Business Case for Hiring College Grads — 32 Reasons They Can Produce a High ROI (http://www.ere.net/2011/12/12/the-business-case-for-hiring-college-grads-reasons-they-can-produce-a-high-roi/)
http://www.ere.net/2011/12/12/the-business-case-for-hiring-college-grads-reasons-they-can-produce-a-high-roi/

[MRK]

The college education in the US is really shitty. A very close relative of mine will graduate this June out of a college in NY with a computer science degree and she knows very little and she was taught very little. I had to help her with her C/C++ assignments. They don't teach them the kind of skills the employers are looking for. Plus, the colleges make them take all these mandatory courses in English, psychology and shit like that, which has nothing to do with computer science and wastes time. The colleges spend 10x the time and money on sports than teaching.

The Indian colleges churn out computer science graduates like sausages out of a machine. While they are not that sharp either on an average, they are better than their American counterparts and costs half the money to hire and keep. Businesses want to maximize profit so they go for the H1B folks.

I took a couple of computer science classes at a university, which supposedly had a really good CS program. They were the 'intro' classes, we used Java and Scheme. Students wouldn't even be exposed to C/C++ until 300 level courses.

I didn't continue the courses because I felt they were getting in the way of learning. They were taught by foreign professors who had only been in the US for a year or two who seemed like they were having a hard enough time adjusting to living in America and speaking English that they couldn't be bothered to develop a cohesive curriculum or approach to teaching. I'm not hating on foreigners as I've been in their situation before, but is it really wise to select a foreigner to teach your course when they are 2 on a 10 scale when it comes to communication? Seriously the classes would have been easier had they not been there to get in the way and confuse you. I preferred google to these instructors.

As far as foreigners in the workplace goes, it's inevitable that you're going to have a lot of good apples come from a country like India that has over a billion people. I was watching a documentary called OfficeTiger where they mentioned that the administrative tech/outsourcing business India employs only something like 0.05% of the population, yet Americans perceive them to be ubiquitous. There are so many people there, for this one company they had hundreds of people apply every day and test to advance in the interview process yet they only hire about one person a day.

So you can see that in such a enormous population, there are bound to be some qualified people.

[Brian4Liberty]

The college education in the US is really shitty. A very close relative of mine will graduate this June out of a college in NY with a computer science degree and she knows very little and she was taught very little.

Yes, that happens. It doesn't mean all schools are like that. Some US Colleges have the best computer science programs in the world. But some school that specializes in arts and social sciences, yet still has a lame "computer science" program is not the best choice. Employers need to know the quality of the degrees, based on the schools they come from.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

The college education in the US is really shitty. A very close relative of mine will graduate this June out of a college in NY with a computer science degree and she knows very little and she was taught very little. I had to help her with her C/C++ assignments. They don't teach them the kind of skills the employers are looking for. Plus, the colleges make them take all these mandatory courses in English, psychology and shit like that, which has nothing to do with computer science and wastes time. The colleges spend 10x the time and money on sports than teaching.

The Indian colleges churn out computer science graduates like sausages out of a machine. While they are not that sharp either on an average, they are better than their American counterparts and costs half the money to hire and keep. Businesses want to maximize profit so they go for the H1B folks.
Yeah all those English/Psychology/Etc classes are a waste of time and people could graduate college in half the time without them. That's what HIGH SCHOOL was for.

[MRK]

Yes, that happens. It doesn't mean all schools are like that. Some US Colleges have the best computer science programs in the world. But some school that specializes in arts and social sciences, yet still has a lame "computer science" program is not the best choice. Employers need to know the quality of the degrees, based on the schools they come from.

What shocked me was that my school's program is in the top 20 CS programs, and is highly respected in the private and academic sectors. Perhaps I only saw the unimpressive parts in the first two courses.

[MRK]

Well, now that I think about it, pretty much every intro class is garbage. Maybe I judged in haste. Or maybe I just wanted a good excuse to not pursue that degree line and graduate earlier and start actually making money :)

[Brian4Liberty]

Such a paradox today, as corporate HR departments use that 4/6 year certificates as a initial screening mechanism and many US firms won't even hire new employees without 'Medallion stamped paper', even for trivial positions. All under the umbrella of the employee focuses on comprehension/accomplishment of those 2-4-6 years educational degrees.


And that's only if a company does any screening at all. A big part of the problem is US companies that have no desire to put any effort into hiring (and quite often, they are not component to do screening). They prefer to have head hunters or consulting firms do the work for them. But at that point, the companies put themselves into the hands of people who don't have their best interest at heart. It's like buying cars, and calling random car lots on the phone and saying "hey, you're the expert on cars, send me over some cars and we'll buy them." Imagine what results would come from that.

[Brian4Liberty]

What shocked me was that my school's program is in the top 20 CS programs, and is highly respected in the private and academic sectors. Perhaps I only saw the unimpressive parts in the first two courses.

Well, if you can't understand the instructor, it can be difficult. Perhaps they are now rating schools based on how many foreigners are teaching (because foreigners are so much smarter and all).

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Well, if you can't understand the instructor, it can be difficult. Perhaps they are now rating schools based on how many foreigners are teaching (because foreigners are so much smarter and all).

Not too far off, lol. My Spanish professor was from Norway and she was the best professor I ever had. She spoke better Spanish than all the Hispanic kids in my class. The funny part was I was the only one who got an A, because the Hispanic kids didn't pay much attention since they thought they already knew how to speak Spanish. May be true, but they certainly didn't know how to write it!!

[lib3rtarian]

And another thing is very important here. An H1-B visa is tied to an employer. The worker is stuck with the employer unless the worker finds another employer who can sponsor a new H1-B. And this new H1-B also has to come from the same pool of the 65K visas, so it's tough to get. So in most cases, the worker is stuck for good with the employer. If the employer sponsors a green card for the worker, and if the GC comes through, then the worker is free to leave, but a GC process takes 5-6 years. This 5-6 years is cheap labor for the employer, and in most cases, the employer will purposefully delay the GC process by filing for the GC in the least desirable category so as to exploit the worker as much as possible. If the worker quits without finding another job or is fired, his visa expires immediately and he has to return to his homeland.

So although, even with all this, the worker is still getting a better standard of living than in India, there is a lot of exploitation here on the part of the employer too. Workers don't complain because they need the employer to sponsor a GC. The worker cannot get one on his own.

If the H1-B visa was not tied to a company, and the worker was free to move companies, you would see the demand for the visas crash overnight. It suddenly becomes more expensive for the company to hire a foreign worker than a native one because what if after the company spends the visa money and the air tickets, brings the worker to the US, and the worker jumps ship in 2 days? Suddenly, you will see the employers shun the foreign workers and go with the native ones.

[jtap]

Yeah all those English/Psychology/Etc classes are a waste of time and people could graduate college in half the time without them. That's what HIGH SCHOOL was for.


Well, now that I think about it, pretty much every intro class is garbage. Maybe I judged in haste. Or maybe I just wanted a good excuse to not pursue that degree line and graduate earlier and start actually making money :)

But those are the money-maker classes for the university. Your thinking is too student-centric ;)

[AFPVet]

That sounds an awful lot like the standard propaganda talking points that would come from Bill Gates, the US Chamber of Commerce, Obama, or any other politician.

"Not smart enough"? Education does not equal intelligence. A intelligent person can learn on the job. And that is how it used to work. Education is a foundation to build on.

Yes, some US College degrees are a joke. Some of them are excellent. The same could be said for Universites in other countries.

What has happened is that US companies have come to this place where they don't want to hire a junior level person, because a bunch of headhunters and consulting firms have convinced all of corporate America that they can provide experienced people at a cheaper rate. No more need to develop anyone.

And the catch? It's a big fucking lie! These headhunters and consulting companies just hire new college grads and lie that they are "senior".

What we have right now is institutionalized ignorance, fed by fraud, greed and massive propaganda from those who stand to benefit.

Indeed... intelligence is the person not the degree! That said, there are good schools and not so good schools—this is fact. Some schools teach more than others, but it goes beyond that... it comes down to the individual professors. There are some shitty professors in 'good' schools just as there are excellent profs in less than good schools. Further, education is an individual responsibility—not the responsibility of the university. It is up to you to continue your education through practice once you have attained your degree.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Found this... watch this episode from AXS.net/HD.NET


Dan Rather Reports
Episode Number: 621

Episode Title: No Thanks For Everything

Description: Americans from coast to coast talk about how big corporation
abandoned them in favor of lower cost guest workers from other countries.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeoBWzIRuic

[Natural Citizen]

The college education in the US is really shitty.

Many of them run what is essentially flunk out programs. MIT is a big one that does that. By default it serves the H1-B model. There was a good thread on this some place. Maybe in the Massie sub forum. I forget exactly. But it's not realistic to say these jobs were created. they were basically reserved. Bad state of affairs indeed. This is what happens when corporations merge with state. There's a word for it. It's on the tip of my tongue.

[Carson]

So they've got their licenses to replace 65,000 people that have the jobs now I figure.

This is the same old type of job creation that has been going on for years.

[Brian4Liberty]

Found this... watch this episode from AXS.net/HD.NET




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeoBWzIRuic

Yep.

[jclay2]

I took a couple of computer science classes at a university, which supposedly had a really good CS program. They were the 'intro' classes, we used Java and Scheme. Students wouldn't even be exposed to C/C++ until 300 level courses.

I didn't continue the courses because I felt they were getting in the way of learning. They were taught by foreign professors who had only been in the US for a year or two who seemed like they were having a hard enough time adjusting to living in America and speaking English that they couldn't be bothered to develop a cohesive curriculum or approach to teaching. I'm not hating on foreigners as I've been in their situation before, but is it really wise to select a foreigner to teach your course when they are 2 on a 10 scale when it comes to communication? Seriously the classes would have been easier had they not been there to get in the way and confuse you. I preferred google to these instructors.

As far as foreigners in the workplace goes, it's inevitable that you're going to have a lot of good apples come from a country like India that has over a billion people. I was watching a documentary called OfficeTiger where they mentioned that the administrative tech/outsourcing business India employs only something like 0.05% of the population, yet Americans perceive them to be ubiquitous. There are so many people there, for this one company they had hundreds of people apply every day and test to advance in the interview process yet they only hire about one person a day.

So you can see that in such a enormous population, there are bound to be some qualified people.

I took two computer science classes in college (math/fin major) and have learned 3-4 times what I learned in those intro classes at twice the pace by just googling/watching tutorials/and tackling interesting problems. I am still a big time amateur for (java, python, C++) but am light years ahead of my fellow classmates.

[madengr]

EE unemployment soars. I thought there was supposed to be a STEM shortage?

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9238266/Unemployment_rate_for_electrical_engineers_soars


Computerworld - The unemployment rate for people at the heart of many tech innovations, electrical engineers, rose sharply in the first quarter of this year. The reasons for the spike aren't clear, but the IEEE-USA says the increase is alarming.

Electrical engineering jobs declined by 40,000 in the first quarter, and the unemployment rate in the category rose to 6.5%, based on an analysis of U.S. Labor Data by the IEEE-USA.

At the same time, the data showed that jobs for software developers are on the rise. The unemployment rate for software engineers was 2.2% in the first quarter, down from 2.8% in 2012, IEEE-USA said. Some 1.1 million software developers were employed during the first quarter.

In 2010 and 2011, the unemployment rate for electrical engineers held at 3.4%. In 2012 there were 335,000 electrical engineers counted in the workforce; it's now at 295,000.

"Seasonal fluctuations are normal, but the first quarter unemployment spike is alarming," said Keith Grzelak, the IEEE-USA's vice president of government relations, in a statement.

This professional group warns that unemployment rates for engineers could get worse if H-1B visas are increased. The increase in engineering unemployment comes at the same time demand for H-1B visas is up.

The U.S. reported this week that it had received 124,000 H-1B petitions for the 85,000 visas allowed under the cap.

The IEEE-USA has long opposed efforts to raise the H-1B cap.

The organization recently came out in support of legislation by Sens. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio) and Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) that would require U.S. companies to make a good faith effort to first hire U.S. workers, raise the salaries of H-1B workers and restrict use of the visa by overseas firms. The engineering group has been arguing for an shift to permanent immigration for science, technology, engineering and math grads.

Grzelak said that "as Congress considers proposals to double H-1B guest worker visas for high tech-workers, they should remember the doctor's oath to first, do no harm," he said.

"It makes no sense to stomp on the accelerator when the road signs suggest we are already headed in the wrong direction," said Grzelak.

But the unemployment for software developers in the first quarter was at 2.2%. In 2012 the unemployment rate was 2.8% and in 2011, 4%.

Victor Janulaitis, CEO of Janco Associates, a research firm that analyzes IT wage and employment trends, believes the number of employed software developers would be higher if not for offshoring of jobs, and the low unemployment number may be masking the number of people who have left the job market.

In tech hiring overall, the TechServe Alliance, which represents IT services firms, said that the tech workforce reached 4.4 million in March, an increase of 14,800 from February, despite the overall low employment growth last month. The results show that demand in the tech sector is strong "with shortages in many skill sets," said Mark Roberts, the group's CEO, in a statement.

But in at least one category, electrical engineers, there is a problem.

For a country to have wealth, you need engineers with the ability "to make something out of nothing," said Janulaitis.