Food Donation Drive for Homeless Protesters at CNN Debate

[michaelwise]

What if all Ron Paul volunteers attending the CNN Youtube debate on November 28th brought with them a $25 dollar bag of groceries and toiletries for the homeless people who will be protesting at the debate at that time. Would this be a good thing to do? They shouldn't be too hard to find there and just give it to them.

"Our government has been undermining the working classes right to survive for the better part of the last 40 years through off-shoring of our jobs, inflation, increased costs of living, and endless taxation. The Ron Paul Revolution means to correct that situation."

I'll include a flyer with those words in the bag of food and necessities that I will bring with me to the debate for the homeless demonstrators.

See article;
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/11/24/Southpinellas/Protest_set_for_prime.shtml

[American]

Be a great idea I think, but it wont get much traction with the GOP, it would make a statement though. This is also Tampa, full of Neo Conned idiots.

[constituent]

excellent idea.

sleeping bags too.

personal charity is the key to progress w/out government.

[ronpaulfollower999]

I still can't figure out why the homeless are protesting this.

[michaelwise]

This gesture would be an example of American charity in action, not at taxpayer expense.

[ladyliberty]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=40865

I tried to start another thread earlier about this when I first heard about it but no one seemed to care. :(

[Ron LOL]

This gesture would be an example of American charity in action, not at taxpayer expense.

I was going to post pretty much exactly this.

It's a chance to prove to the libs that charity needn't be enforced by the government.

[schmeisser]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=40865

I tried to start another thread earlier about this when I first heard about it but no one seemed to care. :(

Sadly, that happens sometimes. It is a good idea. Who is in that area and can start a chip-in? Some logo gear, food, and signs would be great. Sleeping bags, umbrellas, sweatshirts, food...

[ladyliberty]

The homeless shelter is requesting toothbrushes, toothpaste, and other toiletries too.

[fedup100]

Start a hot soup and wine tasting booth a block away, there wont be a protest.:D

[steph3n]

Start a hot soup and wine tasting booth a block away, there wont be a protest.:D

make sure to only give a sample of wine.....:D

[ladyliberty]

The problem is that the city of St. pete has declared WAR on these people! They have torn their tents apart, they arrest them on any trumped up charge they can think of rather than helping find a reasonable solution. They dont have any money and no way to fight back at the city. They will most likely be rounded up and arreted for loitering or something before all the GOP big wigs get there. That is the city's solution for this very REAL problem - just sweep it all under the carpet. they treat these people like trash on the street, and want to sweep them away like so much garbage. They are human beings who had lives, they had jobs, they had families. 67% of the homeless in St. Pete are US Veterans - I think the city's use of force is not only shameful but criminal!

[ronpaulfollower999]

Could someone PLEASE explain to me why the homeless are protesting?

[ladyliberty]

You cannot have a soup booth - not even the churches are allowed to have soup kitchens for them!

[ladyliberty]

Could someone PLEASE explain to me why the homeless are protesting?

according to the newspaper the reason they are protesting is because:


"In particular, bring to light the unjust, harsh, punitive actions by the Mayor, City Council and St. Petersburg police," said activist Eric Rubin.

[ladyliberty]

Here they are using box cutters to cut up the only place the homeless have to sleep!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrPdZmPB36U

[ronpaulfollower999]

Here they are using box cutters to cut up the only place the homeless have to sleep!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrPdZmPB36U

wtf??? All they have to do is say, "This is public property...blah blah blah...could you leave?" Ripping up there tents was unnecessary.

[10thAmendmentMan]

Here they are using box cutters to cut up the only place the homeless have to sleep!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrPdZmPB36U

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

I didn't know those cops were capable of administering due process all on their own! They must be some new super CopJudge that I wasn't aware of.

[ladyliberty]

http://stpeteforpeace.org/sleepout2006.html

This is what they did last year...


Recap of Sleepout with the Homeless in St. Petersburg, FL, Nov. 24, 2006

On Friday, November 24, homeless advocates from over a dozen peace and social justice groups, as well as numerous local churches, participated in a sleep out with the homeless to bring attention to the inadequate services and facilities provided by the city for homeless individuals. The event was planned to coincide with National Buy Nothing Day in order to point out the stark contrast between America’s culture of consumption and the living conditions suffered by those who do not have the basic necessities in life, let alone a Visa card or an X-box.

The coalition, led by organizer Rev. Bruce Wright, also held a press conference and protest to demand that the city provide 24/7 restroom facilities, increased shelter space, laundry facilities and, safe outdoor sleeping areas where those unable to access a shelter could spend the night without fear of harassment by local law enforcement. While the city claims to be spending $2.5 million this year to assist the homeless, it is unclear to advocates, why certain simple and cost-effective solutions for meeting their everyday needs are being overlooked and ignored, despite repeated attempts to bring these solutions to the table.

Approximately 80-100 people, including many of the homeless, participated in the protest after St. Pete Food Not Bomb’s weekly picnic in Williams Park. St. Pete Food Not Bombs reports that it has seen the number of individuals with whom food is shared double within recent months. That number now averages between 100 and 150, and Friday was no exception. Many of the signs held at the protest were geared toward educating the public. One pointed out the 400,000 veterans were homeless, a sad statement coming from a country claiming to support the troops. Other signs pointed out the tough choices that low-income families must make between electricity and food, belying the common stereotype that all those who require assistance with food are homeless and jobless.

“In the U.S., 13.5 million households (11.9% of all U.S. households) are food insecure, cutting back on needed food requirements due to a lack of adequate income. Over 47% of all food-insecure households have incomes above 130% of poverty, which in most cases would make these households ineligible for food stamps.” Center on Hunger and Poverty Bulletin, Brandeis University, October 2005

[ronpaulfollower999]

Post deleted. Too confusing for the poster. ;)

[ronpaulfollower999]

But really, they have no right to tear up ones property.

[ladyliberty]

The tents were their property! Many of them had everything they owned inside those tents and it was all tossed into the dumpster - every last bit of it - and they were told if they did not leave they were going to be arrested. They had very very little, and then the police came and took everything they had left, even their dignity! :mad:

[Ron LOL]

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

I didn't know those cops were capable of administering due process all on their own! They must be some new super CopJudge that I wasn't aware of.

Judge Dredd. :cool:

[michaelwise]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=40865

I tried to start another thread earlier about this when I first heard about it but no one seemed to care. :(I didn't see your earlier thread, I was out sign waving.

What if we just get the word out for people to go to the store and buy $25 worth of goodies and bring them to the debate with them. It shouldn't be hard to find out where the homeless people are protesting. Each individual who brings something can just go by there and give the bag to the first homeless person they come across. It doesn't need to be any more organized than that.

[ladyliberty]

A Ron Paul presidency would mean that the Veterans among them would recieve better care wouldn't it?

Our sign wavings would not have to diminish their protest would it?

Would associating ourselves with the plight of the homeless in St. Pete harm the campaign?

[schmeisser]

http://stpeteforpeace.org/sleepout2006.html

This is what they did last year...


Recap of Sleepout with the Homeless in St. Petersburg, FL, Nov. 24, 2006

On Friday, November 24, homeless advocates from over a dozen peace and social justice groups, as well as numerous local churches, participated in a sleep out with the homeless to bring attention to the inadequate services and facilities provided by the city for homeless individuals. The event was planned to coincide with National Buy Nothing Day in order to point out the stark contrast between America’s culture of consumption and the living conditions suffered by those who do not have the basic necessities in life, let alone a Visa card or an X-box.

The coalition, led by organizer Rev. Bruce Wright, also held a press conference and protest to demand that the city provide 24/7 restroom facilities, increased shelter space, laundry facilities and, safe outdoor sleeping areas where those unable to access a shelter could spend the night without fear of harassment by local law enforcement. While the city claims to be spending $2.5 million this year to assist the homeless, it is unclear to advocates, why certain simple and cost-effective solutions for meeting their everyday needs are being overlooked and ignored, despite repeated attempts to bring these solutions to the table.

Approximately 80-100 people, including many of the homeless, participated in the protest after St. Pete Food Not Bomb’s weekly picnic in Williams Park. St. Pete Food Not Bombs reports that it has seen the number of individuals with whom food is shared double within recent months. That number now averages between 100 and 150, and Friday was no exception. Many of the signs held at the protest were geared toward educating the public. One pointed out the 400,000 veterans were homeless, a sad statement coming from a country claiming to support the troops. Other signs pointed out the tough choices that low-income families must make between electricity and food, belying the common stereotype that all those who require assistance with food are homeless and jobless.

“In the U.S., 13.5 million households (11.9% of all U.S. households) are food insecure, cutting back on needed food requirements due to a lack of adequate income. Over 47% of all food-insecure households have incomes above 130% of poverty, which in most cases would make these households ineligible for food stamps.” Center on Hunger and Poverty Bulletin, Brandeis University, October 2005

I have problems with both sides in this argument, since neither understands the "proper" role of government. I'd still be willing to chip-in if someone local wanted to do something and help explain that to them.

[ronpaulfollower999]

The tents were their property! Many of them had everything they owned inside those tents and it was all tossed into the dumpster - every last bit of it - and they were told if they did not leave they were going to be arrested. They had very very little, and then the police came and took everything they had left, even their dignity! :mad:

I would stay right there. Its public property and I have every right to stay there.

[Ron LOL]

I have problems with both sides in this argument, since neither understands the "proper" role of government. I'd still be willing to chip-in if someone local wanted to do something and help explain that to them.

I think this is the perfect angle if we're going to chip in for something.

[torchbearer]

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

I didn't know those cops were capable of administering due process all on their own! They must be some new super CopJudge that I wasn't aware of.

http://www.cameron-stewart.com/images/dredd.jpg
Judge Dredd, Due process with the squeeze of a trigger.

[ladyliberty]

Rather than have a competing Rally, do you think we could help them to understand how a truly free society will benefit everyone, including them???

If they are going to be right there at the debate hall, then it seems our sign waving might interfere with their protest. I guess I don't want our rallys to clash or detract from each other.

[ladyliberty]

Do you think we could find contact info for their advocate Rev. Bruce Wright and have a heart ot heart talk with him before the debate?

[constituent]

The problem is that the city of St. pete has declared WAR on these people! They have torn their tents apart, they arrest them on any trumped up charge they can think of rather than helping find a reasonable solution. They dont have any money and no way to fight back at the city. They will most likely be rounded up and arreted for loitering or something...

sounds like just about everywhere....

"keep movin'!"

[constituent]

But really, they have no right to tear up ones property.

people have a right to rest their head. they have a right to eat too.

there is no greater property than one's life.

[ladyliberty]

Yes but the debate gives them world wide coverage! I can understand why they want to do this protest at the debates! It seems like the Republicans have turned their backs on them again - but I am convinced that Ron Paul could offer them a real solution to their problems - not with MORE government but with LESS government!! It is the government that has caused most of their problems!! Many of them are running from the IRS - this is why they are angry about the background checks - many of them have had many run-ins with overzealous law enforcement! They do not want a hand out as much as they just want a hand up!

Think of the videos of the medical marijuana guy in the wheelchair - he was completely brushed off by Mitt and Rudy - but Ron Paul was compassionate towards him. I think this could turn out to be a most interesting day at the debates - unlike any other debate thus far!

[torchbearer]

http://www.cameron-stewart.com/images/dredd.jpg
Judge Dredd, Due process with the squeeze of a trigger.

Do what you are compelled to do. To thy own self be true.

[Birdlady]

I am not one to usually say watch out, but be very careful with this protest.

There is a well known case where a man was arrested for feeding 30 homeless people. There is an actual ordinance against this in Orlando. It sounds like Florida is one scary place to live...=/

http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20070405121551238

The man was acquitted but the cops said they will continue to enforce the law.....:eek:

[michaelwise]

Our government has been undermining the working classes right to survive for the better part of the last 40 years through off-shoring of our jobs, inflation, increased costs of living, and endless taxation. The Ron Paul revolution means to correct that situation.

I'll include a flyer with those words in the bag of food and necessities that I will bring with me to the debate.

[ladyliberty]

Florida has become a police state - they are tazer happy too! :mad:

Every intersection has those cameras and underground electronic devices, put in under the cover of darkness I might add. They are far too gung ho on all of this Homeland Insanity if you ask me!

[michaelwise]

I am not one to usually say watch out, but be very careful with this protest.

There is a well known case where a man was arrested for feeding 30 homeless people. There is an actual ordinance against this in Orlando. It sounds like Florida is one scary place to live...=/

http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20070405121551238

The man was acquitted but the cops said they will continue to enforce the law.....:eek:Can one person be arrested for giving another a $20 bag of necessities?

[ladyliberty]

There is a lot of contact information at this website:

http://www.myspace.com/homelesstentcitystpete

[Birdlady]

Can one person be arrested for giving another a $20 bag of necessities?

I really don't know. People were talking about handing out food and I just wanted to warn you about that. Sometimes I feel Patriots should be disobedient to Orwellian laws, but I am not sure if this is the time and place for it. I would love to give these homeless people some new tents since the cops slashed them. Wow...

I was reading some of the comments on that video and on several articles and it's really sad. Most Americans are literally 1-3 paychecks away from being homeless yet they show NO compassion towards them...ugh. I was almost there a few years ago. I could barely eat, so I really feel for these people.

[fedup100]

Just buy a couple of roach coaches to show up. Give the homeless a $ donation to buy food from the coach, it's legit and they can do nothing!

[ladyliberty]

I was thinking a sack full of toiletries with food coupons in them to places like McDonalds or something like that . That would not break any of the rules I dont think?

[ladyliberty]

*bump*

Does anyone have a link to St. Pete city ordinances?

[ladyliberty]

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/01/30/State/Tough_on_the_homeless.shtml

Tough on the homeless, city deemed heartless
Sarasota defends its no-camping ordinance that won it the top spot on a national "mean list."

By BRADY DENNIS
Published January 30, 2006
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Times photo: Daniel Wallace]
Gary Watts, 40, passes time on a park bench in Sarasota's Gillespie Park earlier this month. Watts said he lost his job in Lincoln, Neb., and bought a bus ticket south. "If I'm going to be homeless, I'm going to do it where it's warm," he said. "I just don't want to be arrested."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SARASOTA - The arm-twisting came first.

The National Coalition for the Homeless had a deal for Sarasota: Rescind an anti-homeless ordinance and the group would keep the city off its national "mean list."

Other cities in the past had backed down - Fort Myers, Key West, Gainesville. But Sarasota?

"They were not willing to do that," said Michael Stoops, acting director of the coalition.

He was referring to the city's controversial "no-camping" ordinance, which forbids living outside on public or private property without permission. A judge upheld its legality in December after courts deemed two earlier versions unconstitutional.

Stoops claims the ordinance criminalizes homelessness and leaves those living on the street vulnerable to unwarranted arrests. So when city commissioners refused to back down, he decided to drop the hammer of bad publicity.

That's how Sarasota, population 53,000, recently found itself labeled the "meanest city in the nation" toward homeless people, a dubious honor reprinted in newspapers and mentioned on television stations from New York to Denver to San Francisco.

"It's ridiculous. Total baloney," said City Commissioner Lou Ann Palmer. "If anything, the city of Sarasota is one of most caring communities in the world."

That depends on who you ask.

But this much is certain: City ordinance 05-4640 has generated more attention than anyone could have imagined.

* * *

In 2002, the city passed its first no-camping ordinance, along with bans on public urination and aggressive panhandling, after complaints from local residents and business owners.

The Sarasota Herald Tribune reported that during five months in 2003, police arrested more than 120 people under the ordinance. Eventually, a circuit court judge struck it down.

The city tried again, only to have a judge strike down a second version of the ordinance, claiming it penalized "otherwise innocent conduct" and left too much discretion in the hands of police officers.

The commission passed a third version in August. This time, it was labeled a "no-lodging" measure that did not prevent people from merely sleeping outside, but rather forbid residing outdoors. It also included provisions that let police officers offer transportation to a public shelter before arresting someone.

A judge upheld the latest ordinance on Dec. 29.

Even so, the latest edition is a thinly-masked attempt to make homelessness a crime, said Chris Cosden, a local attorney who successfully challenged the ordinance the first two times and vows to appeal it once again.

"What's going on here is the city of Sarasota is trying to make lives of homeless people so miserable that they'll go someplace else," Cosden said. "We should not be treating other human beings this badly.

"Whether that's meaner than any other city, I can't tell you. Is it mean? Yeah. Am I willing to keep fighting them? Yeah."

Sarasota was the only city in Florida to make the national "mean" list. Many municipalities have passed bans on public urination and aggressive panhandling, but those seldom meet opposition.

Hillsborough County also has a law forbidding anyone to camp or live in a trailer except on land that has a permit for such use. Just this month, sheriff's deputies arrested 11 homeless people on charges of illegal camping. Pinellas County and cities such as Clearwater and St. Petersburg have similar bans.

Stoops said Sarasota's persistence in passing the ordinance is what persuaded him to list it as "meaner" than New York, Los Angeles, Atlanta and other cities with much larger homeless populations.

"We have never seen a city so determined" to pass anti-homeless legislation, he said.

* * *

Those who support the ordinance fume at the suggestion that the city has less than honorable intentions.

They call the mean list a "publicity stunt," "a joke," and are quick to point out that the group behind it considered only local government actions and ignored the scores of local aid services available to the homeless.

"The negative attention is very demeaning to this city. We have lots of people who give incredible amounts of service," said Palmer, the city commissioner. "This whole thing needs to be ignored. It's ridiculous."

Besides, she doesn't appreciate out-of-town critics suggesting that city officials are out to harass homeless people.

"The whole purpose of the ordinance is to protect the homeless," Palmer said. "It's an attempt try to keep people from living unhealthy and unsafe lives. I think most people feel the reason the City Commission did this was to help, not hurt."

That's exactly how Bryan Pope feels, which is significant, considering he's the general manager of Sarasota's Salvation Army.

"They've lost their credibility as far as I'm concerned," Pope said of the National Coalition for the Homeless. "Is Sarasota the meanest city? Not by any stretch of the imagination. I told them they were wrong. They don't care."

He said the city ordinance was meant to "placate a few people's fears" and that it probably won't "make a dime's worth of difference." He said what does make a difference are the dozens of local charitable agencies. The Salvation Army alone provides three meals a day, 200 beds and employment help at its $10.5-million building on 10th Street.

"If somebody wants a helping hand, we'll bend over backward," he said. He called city commissioners "decent, honest people" trying "to do the right thing."

Like others who share his stance, Pope has little tolerance for the criticisms of Stoops, who plans to attend a forum on homelessness in Sarasota in February.

"Everybody can come up with something they like or don't like," he said. "Don't tell me what's wrong here. Tell me how to fix it."

* * *

On a recent Wednesday , Willie Douglas looked out toward the skeletons of new condos rising over downtown Sarasota. He was unshaven and tired, after a night of sleeping outside in the wind and rain.

"They're trying to get us out of town, that's what it is," Douglas, 50 and homeless, said of city ordinance 05-4640. "They don't want us around. We mess up the city. It's for the rich."

A few feet away, a bearded man, who offered his name only as Charlie, shook his head.

"You can't blame the people," he said of the ordinance. But he said he's seen police use it to hassle the homeless around town, even arrest those just trying to sleep.

He thought about it a moment. "Life is difficult enough," he said.

It was just after noon, and the two men were standing outside the Salvation Army. The cafeteria doors opened, and they headed inside for lunch.

-- Brady Dennis can be reached at 813 226-3386 or dennis@sptimes.com

[Duckman]

I personally think the idea of doing something for the homeless while wearing RP stuff would be a good idea.

I think we could use it to emphasize the fact we will help thy neighbor.

I live in Orlando, where the city is trying to get rid of Food Not Bombs feedings. It strikes me as pointless: Trying to illegalize homelessness is about as futile is banning drugs or trying to change cultures with war. A better solution is needed. I don't believe a government solution is the answer, but caring charity work might be.

[michaelwise]

I personally think the idea of doing something for the homeless while wearing RP stuff would be a good idea.

I think we could use it to emphasize the fact we will help thy neighbor.

I live in Orlando, where the city is trying to get rid of Food Not Bombs feedings. It strikes me as pointless: Trying to illegalize homelessness is about as futile is banning drugs or trying to change cultures with war. A better solution is needed. I don't believe a government solution is the answer, but caring charity work might be.With the real estate bust in full swing in Florida, the situation is only going to get worse.

[ladyliberty]

http://tampa.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A214601

Arrests. Then what?

The St. Pete PD will start arresting homeless who sleep on the city's streets this week. Maybe.

BY ALEX PICKETT

Published 03.21.07

Alex PickettOUT IN THE OPEN: Ray Hargis chooses the sidewalk in front of City Hall instead of a shelter.While St. Petersburg City Council members and citizens debated his future inside City Hall's plush chambers, Ray Hargis sat outside on a thin sleeping bag, listening to a radio and reading a thick mystery novel.

This little spot, between a newspaper rack and trashcan, has been Hargis' home for the last several weeks. But as close as he is to the city's main political hub, "Red" (as he is known to the other homeless) has no idea what's happening a few hundred feet away. When told about the ordinances banning sleeping in the public right-of-way, he sits straight up.

"Instead of kicking us, they should help us," he says, staring ahead. He's visibly worried. When will it be enforced? Which shelter will he be sent to? How will he get to his job?

The two men on either side of him sit up, too. "What's happening?" they ask.

Hargis, who arrived in St. Petersburg seven months ago from Virginia, refuses to go to shelters. That's why he's out here.

"I feel safer right here than in a shelter," he insists. "I feel like I'm in prison there."

He talks about getting sick for a week after staying one day at St. Vincent De Paul. He says "gangs," separated by race, run the shelters.

One of his homeless neighbors, a much younger kid, puts on his sandals to go tell other homeless what is transpiring at City Hall, hoping to organize an impromptu protest. But Hargis, tired from day labor and fitful nights of sleep, doesn't want to protest; he simply wants to be left alone.

Inside the Council chambers, 43 people come to podiums to voice opinions on people like Hargis. Some urge City Council members to approve the three ordinances banning tent cities, sleeping near residential areas and in any public right-of-way. The crowd of ordinance supporters and opponents is almost split 50/50. There's the recognizable faces from news reports and press conferences -- Sarah Snyder of the Pinellas County Coalition for the Homeless, homeless advocates Bruce Wright and Eric Rubin, and the oft-quoted president of the Kenwood Neighborhood Association Jim Longstreth -- but it's the impassioned pleas from less-known residents, business owners and homeless men and women that keep the Council's attention.

Downtown business owners share homeless horror stories.

"I found a pile of human waste on my entryway," says Bob Decker, a downtown businessman.

Others want permission for heavy-handed justice.

"What happens to us if we use force [to remove the homeless]?" asks a Central Avenue business owner.

And a large group of Lakewood Estates residents complains about a proposed tent city at Lakewood United Church of Christ off of 54th Avenue S., citing concerns about home values and the safety of their children.

On the other side, advocates and homeless men and women ask that street people not be vilified. Don't rush into an ordinance criminalizing the homeless, they plead.

"I'm not a criminal, I'm not a molester," says John Chapman, who is homeless. "I used to be part of the Chamber of Commerce. I'm no different from you guys."

In the end, the City Council unanimously passes all three ordinances. Before casting their votes, the City Council members and the mayor agree it's the first step to combating the homeless crisis. When Councilman Bill Foster makes his statement, he says the ordinances send a clear message: "We will not be the city of Woodstock wannabes."

The council chambers empty and people flood out of City Hall into a pounding rainstorm. Hargis, the homeless man, is under an awning. He remains silent, clutching his drenched sleeping bag, as people hurriedly walk past.

But for all the praise the City Council received from residents for passing the anti-sleeping ordinances, the immediate effect on the city's swelled homeless population will be negligible.

The tent cities on 15th and 18th streets are already gone; organizers began dismantling the sites days before the vote. The ordinance still leaves room for the city to approve permits for other tent cities, like the one adjacent to St. Vincent DePaul. The most sweeping ordinance is also the one lacking the most teeth: Police can only enforce the ordinance if there is shelter space available within three miles.

In cases from Portland, Ore., to Los Angeles, courts have ruled that ordinances banning sleeping on public sidewalks violate the prohibition against "cruel and unusual punishment" under the Eighth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. If there is no available shelter space, courts ruled, cities cannot criminalize the unavoidable act of sleeping in public.

In St. Petersburg, on any given night, the majority of the city's homeless population cannot be moved into a shelter because there is not enough shelter space. And there's about to be even less. On March 31, the Northwest Presbyterian Church on the city's north side will close, putting 76 more homeless people back on the street. As the weather warms up, the temporary cold shelters will stop taking in people. The only new shelter space proposed is the former PSTA building in Largo, which will hold 150 beds, but even that plan is not finalized. Funding to run the facility has yet to be approved. Those working on the project say it should be ready in 90 days, the same statement they made last month.

But even if there is a bed available, there's another step. The shelter must agree to accept the homeless person, and many shelters in Pinellas County have intake policies that restrict certain groups from entering: inebriated individuals, unmarried couples and/or those who refuse to take part in religious functions. If a police officer approaches a drunken man sleeping on the sidewalk, and the only shelters with open beds are those that refuse drunken individuals, under the ordinance the officer would not be able to arrest the man for sleeping outside. (A public inebriation charge would be another option, but that would hardly solve the problem of where this homeless man will sleep once he's released from jail.)

There are also questions on whether homeless people will agree to go to a shelter up to three miles away, one of the provisions of the ordinance.

"It is going to cause friction," predicts Snyder of PCCH. "The homeless folks are like everybody else -- they get used to their neighborhoods."

Disputing the ordinances' constitutionality, the Pinellas public defender's office and the Pinellas County chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union have already come out against the ordinance.

Local attorney Mark Kamleiter says the City Council is setting itself up for a lawsuit.

"You are talking about passing ordinances that are going to criminalize the homeless, and you don't have the beds for them," he told the City Council after presenting a letter condemning the ordinances signed by the Southern Legal Conference, National Law Center on Homeless and Poverty and the national ACLU. "So you are asking us to suppose the future when you may have the beds. ... I got a suggestion that makes a lot more common sense -- get the beds and come back to us and talk about it."

[hocaltar]

Start a hot soup and wine tasting booth a block away, there wont be a protest.:D

That is a terrible idea... Start a soup and sandwich line right outside the debate. Let everyone see what America has become and that there is hope. Let our goodness win out. Make them ashamed to call us terrorists, conspiracy theorists, and kooks. If you want to win the support of Christians, be Christ-like :)

[ladyliberty]

http://blogs.creativeloafing.com/blurbex/2007/10/31/pinellas-county-unveils-a-new-innovative-approach-to-helping-the-homeless-%E2%80%94-a-tent-city-wait-a-second/

This link will take you to a recent article concerning homeless in St. Pete and links to several other articles.

I think the notion is out there that somehow a Ron Paul presidency will put old people who are on Social Security "out on the streets" or "leave them out in the cold" blah blah blah - but they do nothing at ALL what so ever about the people who are already out there! They are the same ones who chant Support Our Troops and treat us like we are traitors to our country when we want to bring them home - then they treat the very Veterans they are supposedly "supporting" like criminals when they wind up not being able to keep a job because of Post Traumatic Disorder and end up on the streets. Hypocrits!!

Ron Paul says we are to respect all life - and that includes the homeless. I think if we put our minds to it, we should be able to come up with some creative way to help the Homeless and also make a point about what Ron Paul's campaign and the R3VOLUTION is really all about. I do not want to exploit their condition in any way for political gain, but I do want us to be seen in the best light possible, don't you?

You can bet the dems will jump on the opportunity to portray Republicans as cold and heartless if they can!

[KewlRonduderules]

I think a chip-in is a really great idea and giving out gift certificates or groceries for the homeless is definitely workable. I have not seen anywhere online where it would be illegal. The only way it would be illegal if they were soliciting for help. They are not.

If you want to do this, I would contribute via chip-in.

Don't talk too much about this. A plan needs to be developed right away because the debate is coming up next week.

I worry if some on this thread are trying to just talk and talk and talk so nothing can really be developed.

I say go for it!

[ladyliberty]

I stumbled across this little item on another forum - the difference between Ron Paul and Hillary Clinton:

Ron Paul and Hillary Clinton were walking down the street when they came to a homeless person. The Republican, Ron Paul, gave the homeless person his business card and told him to come to his office for a job. He then took $20 out of his pocket and gave it to the homeless person.

Hillary Clinton was very impressed, so when they came to another homeles person, she decided to help. She walked over to the homeless person and gave him directions to the welfare office. She then reached into Paul's pocket and got out $20. She kept $15 for her administrative fees and gave the homeless person $5.

Now, do you understand the difference?

[ladyliberty]

*bump*

I have had one response from a local meetup group - I think I will contact their protest advocate tomorrow and see if he can suggest some ways we might help as individuals attending the debate. I do not want the homeless problem to be swept out of sight and out of mind yet again. There will be CNN reporters everywhere and I would like to draw the "approproate" attention to this issue, no one getting arrested or hurt or worse!

[runderwo]

Hillary Clinton was very impressed, so when they came to another homeles person, she decided to help. She walked over to the homeless person and gave him directions to the welfare office. She then reached into Paul's pocket and got out $20. She kept $15 for her administrative fees and gave the homeless person $5.

Now, do you understand the difference?

The homeless person wasn't named Peter, by any chance?