Ohio CPS Wants to Snatch Kid Away from Family that Has Taught Her Self-Sufficiency

[Lucille]

I was running all over at the age of six, but that was back when Americans were a little more free, and not in a constant state of fear of anything and everything. Man, how times have changed.

I hope the buttinskis who called the pigs are happy.

Ohio CPS Wants to Snatch Kid Away from Family that Has Taught Her Self-Sufficiency
http://reason.com/blog/2013/04/03/ohio-cps-wants-to-snatch-kid-away-from-f


In early March, an Ohio father wrote to parenting site Free-Range Kids to describe the harassment he had received from police for teaching his 6-year-old daughter how navigate their quiet suburban neighborhood and then having the temerity to decide on his own when she may do so unsupervised. After letting her walk to a nearby store, he discovered when she failed to return that the police had taken her:


Once I got to the police station they would not release her to me for over 20 minutes, though she was sitting behind bullet-proof glass just 20 feet away. When the police finally came to talk to me, I was told that they had responded to a call of a young child being unsupervised. They refused to identify a reasonable cause for her detention, or even what law had been broken. They insisted that they were waiting for CPS to respond before they would let me see my daughter, but then they later came back and said that they were releasing me to her because CPS had told them to give her to me, since I was waiting for her.

That sounds like resolution of sorts, right? Child Protective Services told the police to give her back to her parent. But the story took a turn for the worse, detailed again on Free-Range Kids today:


”Emily” and I are both walking back from the library. She wants to do it herself, so I let her walk separate from me some of the time. The cops get a phone call from a concerned citizen who says there’s a strange guy talking to a little girl. Three officers respond and cite a concern for Emily’s safety in crossing the street. I confirm that I am her father and give my name, as is required by law. They refuse to state any reasonable suspicion of a crime being committed or say what law has been broken, and so, in accordance with my 5th amendment rights, I refuse to answer any questions. We are detained for over half an hour before being released. (I asked many times over the course of the detention whether I was “free to go” and I was told that I was not. We were told that we were being held for an “investigative detention.”) The sergeant who responded to the scene stated over the radio that he wanted to “hook this guy” for child endangerment. (The recording of radio traffic during the encounter was later received through a public records request that I made.)

They were again reported to CPS, even though police say they haven’t broken any laws. Later he deals with CPS directly:


I talk with the supervisor at CPS on a recorded phone call. I refuse to answer any questions or make any statements. Though he did relay that he was concerned about a child “roaming the streets of [Our City, OH],” he refuses to tell me what law has been broken. We go around and around for about 25 minutes. I find out through my employer shortly after the phone call that if I do not “cooperate” CPS is threatening to seek an ex parte order, which would allow CPS to take custody without a hearing, to separate us that Friday (and then keep Emily all weekend since a hearing would not have to be held until close of business on Monday). Note that I have cooperated to the full extent required by law. The Home School Legal Defense Assn. is very helpful in getting CPS to agree not to seek an ex parte order so long as Emily does not go outside again by herself.

Since then CPS has knocked on the door many times. I did answer the door when the CPS supervisor came by–I thought that he was a delivery guy or what not since he didn’t have a uniformed police officer with him–but otherwise we have simply ignored them. There is no law requiring someone to answer their door, and since I had no interest in talking to them or getting detained by the cops simply ignoring them seemed the best course of action.

CPS has responded by filing a complaint alleging neglect and attempting to take the child into protective custody. They are also attempting to try to force the family to allow CPS officials into their home, search the house and interview their children.

Free-Range Kids is asking for pro bono legal help in Ohio to assist the family.

[V3n]

After letting her walk to a nearby store, he discovered when she failed to return that the police had taken her.

Couldn't this have just as easily turned out: "...he discovered when she failed to return that a homicidal pedophile had taken her."

The rest of the story sounds like he's being harassed by the CPS flat-out; I'm not arguing there.. But the first contact - not even the buddy system? Anything?

[Christian Liberty]

Honestly, six is too young to be wandering around alone. Although it is absolutely ridiculous that the police think they have a right to kidnap a child for a sub par parenting choice. The state has a role to play in regulating actual neglect and abuse but this isn't it.

[fisharmor]

I admit that when the cops picked up two-year-old me from the park the better part of a mile from my house I had gotten to on my own, and tried to find my parents, it was probably for the best, despite the fact that I knew what I was doing. (It wasn't the last time I scared the hell out of my parents, either.)

But six? Hell, I was back and forth from that same park by then, and all over everywhere else in a mile radius.

[Lucille]

Couldn't this have just as easily turned out: "...he discovered when she failed to return that a homicidal pedophile had taken her."

The rest of the story sounds like he's being harassed by the CPS flat-out; I'm not arguing there.. But the first contact - not even the buddy system? Anything?


Honestly, six is too young to be wandering around alone. Although it is absolutely ridiculous that the police think they have a right to kidnap a child for a sub par parenting choice. The state has a role to play in regulating actual neglect and abuse but this isn't it.

You guys must be young.


If anyone at Child Protective Services or the police department would pick up a single book written before predator panic (http://www.freerangekids.com/cops-detain-6-year-old-for-walking-around-neighborhood-and-it-gets-worse/) swept the country, they’d see that 6-year-olds were always part of the neighborhood scene, scampering, playing, or even — in many eras and areas — working! The idea that a 6-year-old can’t be outside without constant supervision is new and warped.

It also seriously underestimates kids. Is there a law requiring parents to stunt their children’s curiosity, competence, maturity and independence? I fear it may only be a matter of time. – L.

[jbauer]

6 years old seems a little young to me to be given free range on the town. My oldest is 4.5 and there's not a snowballs chance I'd trust her to walk down the city streets here.

[CaptUSA]

Honestly, six is too young to be wandering around alone. Although it is absolutely ridiculous that the police think they have a right to kidnap a child for a sub par parenting choice. The state has a role to play in regulating actual neglect and abuse but this isn't it.When I was six, we would leave in the morning, come back around lunch time, leave again, and then return when the street lights came on. And this was in a large city. Don't tell me the danger level has changed. The nanny-state level has changed.

I imagine I could have been kidnapped by the police any day of the week!

[Lucille]

She only walked a few blocks each time.

http://www.freerangekids.com/6-y-o-who-walked-alone-to-post-office-may-be-removed-from-her-home/

Fact: The most serious danger kids face is mom's boyfriend.


When I was six, we would leave in the morning, come back around lunch time, leave again, and then return when the street lights came on. And this was in a large city. Don't tell me the danger level has changed. The nanny-state level has changed.

I imagine I could have been kidnapped by the police any day of the week!

Isn't it so sad?!

[AGRP]

Kids cant walk or bike to school anymore? What if they are starving and their parents just died? And they have no means of outside communication and theirs no one around? Can they go to the store to get food or help?

[XNavyNuke]

Couldn't this have just as easily turned out: "...he discovered when she failed to return that a homicidal pedophile had taken her."


Roughly 1 in 300 of the U.S. population is engaged in professional law enforcement. The child predator that you describe would be an atypical one operating outside their social circle and acting opportunistically rather than planning. Given those conditions, I would suspect that it is several orders of magnitude more likely that the child would be detected and detained by an LEO. So I would say no, the scenario you describe would fall outside the "just as easily" realm.

XNN

[69360]

I could walk to school around town when I was 6. I let my kids walk to school and around town at 6.

If these people were really that concerned why didn't they ask the kid if she was ok instead of calling the cops?

[Lucille]

Kids cant walk or bike to school anymore? What if they are starving and their parents just died? And they have no means of outside communication and theirs no one around? Can they go to the store to get food or help?

Tennessee Mom Threatened With Arrest For Letting Daughter Bike to School
http://dc.streetsblog.org/2011/09/01/tennessee-mom-threatened-with-arrest-for-letting-daughter-bike-to-school/

Mom Arrested for Letting Kids Play Outside
http://www.copblock.org/20877/mom-arrested-for-letting-kids-play-outside/

From the first article:


Columnist Lenore Skenazy regularly writes about giving children the independence to make their way around their neighborhoods freely and unsupervised. In a recent post, she points to a child development book from 1979, when six-year-olds could be expected to be able to “travel alone in the neighborhood (four to eight blocks) to store, school, playground, or to a friend’s home.”

No wonder so many kids are so fat, and dxed with ADHD.

[kcchiefs6465]

My child would never be walking down the road at six alone. Then again, I grew up in the area where the boy scout was kidnapped and raped to death with broken broomsticks by two crack heads. Maybe I'd be an overprotective parent, but the world isn't all roses and daisies. Some truly sick people roam amongst us.

Though at age six to seven I was all over neighborhood. Caught a few whoopins for some of my travels too. We were pretty bad kids, looking back on it now though. lol.

[kcchiefs6465]

Roughly 1 in 300 of the U.S. population is engaged in professional law enforcement. The child predator that you describe would be an atypical one operating outside their social circle and acting opportunistically rather than planning. Given those conditions, I would suspect that it is several orders of magnitude more likely that the child would be detected and detained by an LEO. So I would say no, the scenario you describe would fall outside the "just as easily" realm.

XNN
Do you have a source for that 1 in 300 figure? Going to be an early day if that truly is the case...

Sigh.

[fisharmor]

My child would never be walking down the road at six alone.

At six I was for some reason taking the same bus as my high-school brother, which is to say I was completely unsupervised.
And got to hear all sorts of colorful language, and found out what dip and cigarettes were really early.
Got me an ear for AC/DC, too.
The trouble with six-year-old me getting to do whatever I wanted wasn't danger to me, it was the fact that I liked fire back then... the danger was to everyone else.

Then there's my carpool buddy from Peru.
He's the oldest - he didn't have an older brother to watch over him when he was going to school alone at age six ON PUBLIC TRANSIT, in a developing country.
Apparently the buses in Peru charged a different rate for students back then, and the drivers wouldn't stop for kids.
So the kids had to learn to go talk to complete strangers and get them to get the bus to stop so they could bait-and-switch.

It's been a long time since I heard a horror story involving children and predatory citizens.
But predatory cops and children? Why, I read one yesterday, and I read this one today.
The math is pretty solidly in the favor of the free range idea.

[Matthew5]

Makes me thankful that my kids are growing up in the country. I remember waking up at 7:00 am and packing a backpack with peanut butter crackers, a canteen of water, a first aid kid, and my favorite walking stick. My parents didn't care as long as we were back by sunset.

I would agree that six is too young for city dwellers, but that's just my personal view. Nothing to get the cops involved over...

[kathy88]

We just had to be home when the streetlight were on. But my six year old today? Not going to happen.

[Romulus]

Parents are more protective now....

Shoot we were left in the darn car and 4 and 6yrs old cause my Mom didn't want us bugging her while she shopped in the store.... aint happening these days.

[WM_in_MO]

Parents are more protective now....

Shoot we were left in the darn car and 4 and 6yrs old cause my Mom didn't want us bugging her while she shopped in the store.... aint happening these days.
you would be reported so damn fast.

[dannno]

We just had to be home when the streetlight were on. But my six year old today? Not going to happen.

Because you are scared you are going to be targeted by CPS or do you think people have changed and you are worried about your kids or are things the same and your parents made a bad decision?

I mean, I might treat a girl a little differently but I'd probably let her go to a friends house if it was within a block or two, might depend on the neighborhood though. A boy though? Hell, go do whatever you want, just be home by dark. I'd probably get in trouble for that, though.

[jbauer]

you would be reported so damn fast.

I'm scared to put my kids in the car and return the cart will they sit in the car for 30 seconds.

[Barrex]

Honestly, six is too young to be wandering around alone. Although it is absolutely ridiculous that the police think they have a right to kidnap a child for a sub par parenting choice. The state has a role to play in regulating actual neglect and abuse but this isn't it.


6 years old seems a little young to me to be given free range on the town. My oldest is 4.5 and there's not a snowballs chance I'd trust her to walk down the city streets here.

?Wierd. I knew kids who were driving tractors at that age...

[mad cow]

Things have sure changed since the '50s.My Mom would run me out of the house if the weather was nice and I wasn't sick when I was six.
Not that she had to very often but 'Go play outside' was common enough for me to remember it,and 'outside' had no geographical boundaries.

[satchelmcqueen]

the younger folks would think 6 is to young. i do not. i suppose it all depends on where you live and how safe the parent thinks the neighborhood is. wait!!!! just like it supposed to be!

[DamianTV]

So why do we see children younger than the age of six playing unsupervised in the middle of streets in lower income neighborhoods and nothing ever happens to them? Oh, maybe it was because they are not being taught self-sufficiency, just to run-amuk.

Im sure if I were a child today, I would have been arrested for diving into swimming pools, and tazered for either riding a bike or skateboarding without a full suit of body armor.

[angelatc]

Couldn't this have just as easily turned out: "...he discovered when she failed to return that a homicidal pedophile had taken her."

The rest of the story sounds like he's being harassed by the CPS flat-out; I'm not arguing there.. But the first contact - not even the buddy system? Anything?


The odds of being snatched by a stranger are miniscule. It's the media that makes people believe that there are pedophiles on every corner. WHen I was 6, I walked to and from school alone every day, and rode my bike to the convenience store when I wanted to.

These people have done nothing wrong, and 6 is not too young to be out and about unsupervised. Well, it guess it is now that America has been pussified.

[angelatc]

Makes me thankful that my kids are growing up in the country. I remember waking up at 7:00 am and packing a backpack with peanut butter crackers, a canteen of water, a first aid kid, and my favorite walking stick. My parents didn't care as long as we were back by sunset.

I would agree that six is too young for city dwellers, but that's just my personal view. Nothing to get the cops involved over...


I have a friend that grew up on a cattle ranch out west. By age 8, he was in charge of riding the whole perimeter of the ranch to ensure that the fences were intact. IF they weren't, he fixed them. This required an overnight stay, buy the way.

[presence]

My neighbour is so deep in CPS bullshit right now. Over their 12 y/o throwing a fit when dad wouldn't let her were short shorts to school.

Over the nanny state.

[Carson]

I think the kids are doing fine.

Perhaps we do need to do something about the adults that are messing with them.

Wouldn't it be funny that an agency to prevent such things turned out to be a problem? Maybe civilization has come full circle?

[jclay2]

Land of the free home of the brave!! MERIKA FU** YEAH!

[MelissaWV]

Many six-year-olds are easily taught the basics, and the rest is all instinct. I wouldn't trust my niece to wander the neighborhood or go to the store alone, but she's 11. She also forgets how socks work sometimes. My nephew is going to be a wanders-around kind of kid. He's 4 and honestly other than his notion that cars are supposed to stop for him he's ready to go.

I'm not that ancient. I grew up running around the woods and tracking animals and probably would have walked to school if it weren't so damned hot in Florida. Going to a friend's house down the street was no biggie. You had common sense. You knew a neighbor or two (in response to the "what if their parents dropped dead") in case of emergency. In fact, that was my first stop when something seemed wrong. If someone had tried to touch me or kidnap me, they would have had to do it out in public or, when I was in the woods, they would have had to catch me. The odds of meeting a predatory human being in the woods who's willing to run after a tree-climbing hooligan are pretty slim.

At six, keep to areas where you can be seen and heard, and don't get distracted. If it's night, keep near the better-lit areas of the sidewalk/street. Don't flash your money around. Don't buy things that will melt/spoil on the way home. Memorize someone's phone number (someone who will actually answer) and keep a copy somewhere on your person.

Most of these precautions, like I said, would be common sense and have little to do with human predators. People get lost, or they miss a tree root or uneven sidewalk and twist an ankle in the dark, or they go off chasing a kitten and lose track of time. If you train your child to always be afraid, they won't be able to function properly. If you teach them to simply be prepared, you're doing them a lifelong service.

[proudclod229]

By the time my future children reach age 5 they will be taught on how to spot threats and how to eliminate threats, because a threatening type of situation could arise any time...even if you were to leave your kid out front playing with the dog for five minutes or something like that.

I can agree that there's nothing wrong with asking the girl if she was okay..but taking her to the police station and calling cps to take her from her family is more than overkill. I can't even think of the word to describe it. Despicable?--that's a good one.

It reminds me of how my little brother was "warned" not to ride his bike on the sidewalk..........the cop took him to the police station toe hold him there until my mother would pick him up. We live in a small quiet town, and few, if any, people walk the sidewalk on a thursday night.

My Mom freaked out on her.

[Professor8000]

From ages 3 to 4 I was roaming the neighborhood with my brother who is 2 and 1/2 years older than me. By 5 years old we had moved to a more rural neighborhood and we all got bikes to ride around. At 5 years old I would ride my bike a few miles and if I got lost, I'd just knock on someone's door and call home because my mom made sure we memorized our phone number at a very young age.

[kcchiefs6465]

Many six-year-olds are easily taught the basics, and the rest is all instinct. I wouldn't trust my niece to wander the neighborhood or go to the store alone, but she's 11. She also forgets how socks work sometimes. My nephew is going to be a wanders-around kind of kid. He's 4 and honestly other than his notion that cars are supposed to stop for him he's ready to go.

I'm not that ancient. I grew up running around the woods and tracking animals and probably would have walked to school if it weren't so damned hot in Florida. Going to a friend's house down the street was no biggie. You had common sense. You knew a neighbor or two (in response to the "what if their parents dropped dead") in case of emergency. In fact, that was my first stop when something seemed wrong. If someone had tried to touch me or kidnap me, they would have had to do it out in public or, when I was in the woods, they would have had to catch me. The odds of meeting a predatory human being in the woods who's willing to run after a tree-climbing hooligan are pretty slim.

At six, keep to areas where you can be seen and heard, and don't get distracted. If it's night, keep near the better-lit areas of the sidewalk/street. Don't flash your money around. Don't buy things that will melt/spoil on the way home. Memorize someone's phone number (someone who will actually answer) and keep a copy somewhere on your person.

Most of these precautions, like I said, would be common sense and have little to do with human predators. People get lost, or they miss a tree root or uneven sidewalk and twist an ankle in the dark, or they go off chasing a kitten and lose track of time. If you train your child to always be afraid, they won't be able to function properly. If you teach them to simply be prepared, you're doing them a lifelong service.
All of the six year olds here should be sure to keep that in mind. :p :toady:

I agree with your post 100%. We ran around as kids but there was usually a group of us. When there wasn't and our parents couldn't find us, we got a whoopin or our nose to the corner or whatever. Me, when I become a parent, will not be letting my 6 year daughter run around by herself depending on the neighborhood. If it was a close knit neighborhood and people knew eachother and watched out for eachother's kids, yes. I'm hoping she has an older brother before all that though. :)

[Carson]

My brother showed me how to smoke when I was about 4 or 5 so I could stand out front by the curb waiting for Mom to come home.

He knew the neighbor lady across the street would see me an freak out. He thought things like that were pretty funny.

Hey and look how I turned out.

[KingRobbStark]

I used to walk to school, and the store (and anywhere I want) by the age of 7.

[2young2vote]

Wow you guys were adventurers. I played out in the woods by my grandparents house but that was it. Thats why I want land/woods before I have kids - so they can have fun but not be surrounded by a bunch of people.