Remember the "homeless" guy the cop gave shoes to?

[CaseyJones]

http://now.msn.com/jeffrey-hillman-homeless-man-said-to-have-thirty-pairs-of-shoes-cash


Jeffrey Hillman, better known as "the guy in that viral photo that a cop gave all those shoes and socks to," was recently profiled by the New York Post counting a stack of bills on the way back from "work" in Times Square. The Rev. John Graf, who says he pays Hillman's utility bills, admits that Hillman has 30 pairs of shoes in his Bronx apartment and has been "working the streets … for years," reportedly making up to $1,000 a day. NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly offers the most levelheaded take on this news: "That's life in New York. ... But it was a generous act of kindness." He's right: Let's focus on the good in people, not the bad.

lulz

[erowe1]

Why's this guy paying his utility bills if he knows this?

[phill4paul]

Ha! Somehow I think his panhandling days are numbered now that word is out.

[PaulConventionWV]

This is satire, right?

[CaseyJones]

This is satire, right?
no I don't believe so

[erowe1]

This is satire, right?

Nope. Check out the links to the sources.

[Lucille]

The Rev. John Graf, who says he pays Hillman's utility bills, admits that Hillman has 30 pairs of shoes in his Bronx apartment and has been "working the streets … for years," reportedly making up to $1,000 a day.

Nice, and tax free to boot. I suspect someone's going to be investigated by the IRS real soon.

[erowe1]

Nice, and tax free to boot. I suspect someone's going to be investigated by the IRS real soon.

I don't know. It seems like it would be pretty easy just to call every donation a gift.

[angelatc]

I don't know. It seems like it would be pretty easy just to call every donation a gift.


Not if he is panhandling as a career.

[belian78]

This happened in Peoria here bout 10 years back. Guy had a sob story, worked downtown everyday, tv station even did one of their 'community focus' pieces on the guy. Well, after that piece ran a lady called up the local newspaper saying she had just seen that guy at the mall like a day prior buying all new Nike clothes/shoes/hats/etc.. Dude was spending $100's of dollars just in one store. Apparently he had been raking in the dough for a few months.

[MelissaWV]

I'm confused... people gave this guy money, and now they're angry that he didn't have a big "F" for "FULL" over his head once he reached a certain amount? You give someone money, and that is what you chance. Sad notion about the IRS, though good luck if he doesn't have an actual address or means of identification.

[belian78]

I would absolutely be upset if I gave a person money to help them out, and it turned out they didn't need help at all. Sure, people gave the money freely, but under the pretense that this person was down on their luck. It's assholes like this that turn good people off charity.

[MelissaWV]

I would absolutely be upset if I gave a person money to help them out, and it turned out they didn't need help at all. Sure, people gave the money freely, but under the pretense that this person was down on their luck. It's assholes like this that turn good people off charity.

The fact that a bunch of other people gave him money makes him less down on his luck? At what point, do you think, is he obligated to stop everyone from handing him money and say "oh no thanks. I'm full up. I'm going to stop for the day and assume I make this much or more tomorrow and the next day."

Giving random people money will always carry risk. Sometimes they'll use it for something you would never, ever approve of. Sometimes they have more than you think is the basic amount that they need to survive. Sometimes they get mad that you didn't give them more.

[thoughtomator]

and that, ladies and gentlemen, is why I never hand money to beggars

It's not because I'm indifferent to suffering, it's because I've lived in New York.

There was a woman who lived in a posh apartment building on Park Avenue who was pulling in a mid-6-figure income, tax free, from begging on the streets. She would dress up in rags like a homeless person every day and retire to her luxury apartment at night.

[oyarde]

I am still trying to figure out why the Rev. was paying this guys utility bills ....

[MelissaWV]

and that, ladies and gentlemen, is why I never hand money to beggars

It's not because I'm indifferent to suffering, it's because I've lived in New York.

There was a woman who lived in a posh apartment building on Park Avenue who was pulling in a mid-6-figure income, tax free, from begging on the streets. She would dress up in rags like a homeless person every day and retire to her luxury apartment at night.

I don't give out money, either. I support local efforts (career closets, etc.) that try to "teach a person to fish," so to speak. I support churches who do have their regular folks that show up with known issues. I'll buy food or other tangibles for shelters, or I'll buy a meal for a hobo (note: totally different from a "homeless" person, I realize).

[alucard13mmfmj]

I did hear how panhandling is quite lucrative.. I saw this one guy panhandling at 9am on teh way to work. Then I saw the same guy when I left work... walking on a side street and getting into a Benz Mercedes lol.

I was like wtf?.. Dirty Green shirt with a purple emblem looking thing on the back, shoes with holes and tape all over it, and jeans with more holes than there are black holes in the universe. Hard to get him mixed up with another.

So.. these guys are making more money panhandling than I do at work (before taxeS) lol...

[Tod]

I got suckered by a panhandler once. I bought him dinner, over which he told me that he preferred panhandling to holding a job because he didn't have to answer to a boss and he could pick his own hours, etc.

[abacabb]

I believe firmly that people shouldn't just be handed money for merely existing.

If they want to sit down and have a meal with you, fine. Money for drugs? No thanks.

[oyarde]

I believe firmly that people shouldn't just be handed money for merely existing.

If they want to sit down and have a meal with you, fine. Money for drugs? No thanks.

I am kind of an old school guy,so ,really 2 Thessolonians 3 : 10 works for me for the able bodied .....

[oyarde]

and that, ladies and gentlemen, is why I never hand money to beggars

It's not because I'm indifferent to suffering, it's because I've lived in New York.

There was a woman who lived in a posh apartment building on Park Avenue who was pulling in a mid-6-figure income, tax free, from begging on the streets. She would dress up in rags like a homeless person every day and retire to her luxury apartment at night.

I agree .I would like to be rid of the worst beggar , the Fed Govt, and replace them with responsible , private , willful , better, more effecient and loving charity .

[abacabb]

I am kind of an old school guy,so ,really 2 Thessolonians 3 : 10 works for me for the able bodied .....
True, though I'd seriously question the mental health of such people.

[oyarde]

True, though I'd seriously question the mental health of such people.

That is possible , most real homeless are,( a very small percentage of the population) but you, I or anyone else cannot help the mental state that has made them choose that, that is best left to them and God, if you do not believe in God, then it is left to them.

[heavenlyboy34]

I agree .I would like to be rid of the worst beggar , the Fed Govt, and replace them with responsible , private , willful , better, more effecient and loving charity .
I keep trying to persuade people to join me in an effort to make that happen...but only a handful have shown interest. :(

[oyarde]

I keep trying to persuade people to join me in an effort to make that happen...but only a handful have shown interest. :(

We must work tirelessly as the socialists do to steal all.

[ClydeCoulter]

I give to strangers when I have it to give. What they do with it is their problem. I don't worry about it. I'd rather give to 10 abusers than miss one that really needs it.

[kcchiefs6465]

I give to strangers when I have it to give. What they do with it is their problem. I don't worry about it. I'd rather give to 10 abusers than miss one that really needs it.
+1. That is how I feel.

And truth be told, I've bought a few 40oz's for panhandlers before. Especially when they are honest about what they want the money for. "Why lie? I need a beer" signs and the like. Nothing is worse than being out on a hot summer's day with not so much as a beer to quench your thirst.

There have been a few that froze to death out here, and they are routinely robbed and assaulted without consequence. The cops treat them like shit, harrassing them, dumping their beer out and kicking them down the road. (if not taking them to jail) It isn't as glamorous as you might imagine though I am sure some abuse peoples' charities. I know a few panhandlers. They aren't all assholes or cheats. I've stopped to drink a beer and bullshit with a few of them. Generally good people if they aren't completely strung out on their addiction of choice.

[abacabb]

+1. That is how I feel.

And truth be told, I've bought a few 40oz's for panhandlers before. Especially when they are honest about what they want the money for. "Why lie? I need a beer" signs and the like. Nothing is worse than being out on a hot summer's day with not so much as a beer to quench your thirst.

There have been a few that froze to death out here, and they are routinely robbed and assaulted without consequence. The cops treat them like shit, harrassing them, dumping their beer out and kicking them down the road. (if not taking them to jail) It isn't as glamorous as you might imagine though I am sure some abuse peoples' charities. I know a few panhandlers. They aren't all assholes or cheats. I've stopped to drink a beer and bullshit with a few of them. Generally good people if they aren't completely strung out on their addiction of choice.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OQjlzh279E

The beer signs are a gag scam too. See 7:09.

[kcchiefs6465]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OQjlzh279E

The beer signs are a gag scam too.
I know most of them in my city. The local crackheads won't get a penny from me. A couple alcoholics I'll drink a beer with them every now and again. I knew a man who froze to death. Never drank with him but I seen him around. They aren't all scammers and hardly any of them are making any money worth while. Maybe if you were in Manhattan or something, Idk. I have seen the man who plays like he is mentally retarded and makes a killing, though.

[oyarde]

I know most of them in my city. The local crackheads won't get a penny from me. A couple alcoholics I'll drink a beer with them every now and again. I knew a man who froze to death. Never drank with him but I seen him around. They aren't all scammers and hardly any of them are making any money worth while. Maybe if you were in Manhattan or something, Idk. I have seen the man who plays like he is mentally retarded and makes a killing, though.

Tell my Leadman to get his ass back to work, on time Mon , all he got was three days off .:)

[KrokHead]

If they want to sit down and have a meal with you, fine. Money for drugs? No thanks.

The last time a homeless person asked me for money I was at a Supermarket, so I asked him if he wanted food. I WAS HAD!

[Antischism]

People exploiting the kindness/naivete of other people; it happens. Always will. There are churches that ask for donations and use it on personal expenses or wants as well, so it's not just panhandlers. These very same "church leaders" don't even believe what they're preaching and prey on those looking for God. There are also many people who genuinely need the help. It's up to you what you do and who you decide to give your money to, if anyone.

There are also anti-war, anti-poverty leftist collectives like Food Not Bombs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_Not_Bombs) that provide everyone with free food made of grocery store surplus that would otherwise go bad and go to waste. It's usually done in public spaces and everyone's free to help cook or give food. These are perfect places for real homeless people to go if they're hungry, as well as churches who provide services and help the needy.

[BlackTerrel]

and that, ladies and gentlemen, is why I never hand money to beggars

It's not because I'm indifferent to suffering, it's because I've lived in New York.

There was a woman who lived in a posh apartment building on Park Avenue who was pulling in a mid-6-figure income, tax free, from begging on the streets. She would dress up in rags like a homeless person every day and retire to her luxury apartment at night.

Is it really possible to make mid 6 figures tax free just begging on the street? If that is the case I would argue being homeless is always a matter of a choice and/or crazy.

[TheGrinch]

I will and have bought a homeless person a meal, but I will not subsidize their addiction, just like I wouldn't expect anyone to do for me (or really to me, as you're not helping them by enabling their viscous cycle).

I remember when I lived in Athens GA, that you could donate to a meter that went directly to the homeless shelters instead.

[MelissaWV]

Is it really possible to make mid 6 figures tax free just begging on the street? If that is the case I would argue being homeless is always a matter of a choice and/or crazy.

Strangely, none of these forumgoers characterizing it as easy and profitable have not left their computers to undertake a similar trade....

[WarNoMore]

Strangely, none of these forumgoers characterizing it as easy and profitable have not left their computers to undertake a similar trade....

Because when I think libertarians, I think scam artists. These people are misrepresenting themselves and profitting off of it. Not really something someone with any kind of integrity would want to do.

[thoughtomator]

Strangely, none of these forumgoers characterizing it as easy and profitable have not left their computers to undertake a similar trade....

If you knew 100% that it was easy, profitable, and risk-free and you could make 6 figures doing it, would you?

Me, I would never do that. If I were going to scam people for a living, I'd go into banking or government where I could make much more than that.

[MelissaWV]

If you knew 100% that it was easy, profitable, and risk-free and you could make 6 figures doing it, would you?

Me, I would never do that. If I were going to scam people for a living, I'd go into banking or government where I could make much more than that.

I wouldn't. I'm happy doing what I'm doing and making what I'm making.

I'm also not whining about the fact that someone is "scamming" by standing around in rags and accepting money.

[thoughtomator]

I wouldn't. I'm happy doing what I'm doing and making what I'm making.

I'm also not whining about the fact that someone is "scamming" by standing around in rags and accepting money.

It's called fraud and even in a strictly libertarian society it's a serious crime.

[MelissaWV]

It's called fraud and even in a strictly libertarian society it's a serious crime.

Is it? Or is it "fraud" because the people giving the money think the person getting it is "too rich"?

It's pretty easy. Draw a line here and tell me when it is no longer fraud. At what point is someone no longer allowed to put out their hand and accept money? Oh boy someone made $1,000 in a day... will they do so tomorrow? The next day? They put their hand out and someone put money in it, and unless there is actually a sign that says "I have no other money than what you are going to give me," I don't see how it's fraud. What happened to personal responsibility? Some of the folks here are talking about someone merely sitting there, looking homeless. If you make a mistake and misjudge the person, it's your doing. If they are in a wheelchair and you find that more pitiable than someone who's got use of their legs... isn't that just marketing based on your own awful preconceptions?

"In a strictly libertarian society" I guess someone dressing nicely could be a serious crime, if they are marketing themselves for a certain position or reward.

But fine. Let's continue. What should be the punishment for having more money than you should, because people gave it to you?

[MRK]

I have volunteered working at food banks before.

There have been years where I couldn't afford even half of what you'd get for SNAP benefits in food.

However I have never given a cent to any of these people except once when I was about 8 years old and had a dime in my pocket (unknown whether it was a silver dime ;) )

[Carson]

Nice, and tax free to boot. I suspect someone's going to be investigated by the IRS real soon.

Really? I didn't watch the video but I thinking there are pleasanter and fatter fish to fry. :D

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I got suckered by a panhandler once. I bought him dinner, over which he told me that he preferred panhandling to holding a job because he didn't have to answer to a boss and he could pick his own hours, etc.

At that point I'd knock his teeth out and then he'd have to beg to pay his dental bills

[MelissaWV]

At that point I'd knock his teeth out and then he'd have to beg to pay his dental bills

Yeah violence is the sane reaction to someone saying they prefer to panhandle rather than deal with corporate shit and the IRS.

[oyarde]

Is it deceitful ? Yes, would I do it ? No , will I be played a sucker? No.Simple as that, really.