My father in law

[BillyDkid]

My father in law is a devoted Dubya fan and despises Ron Paul. He came here for Thanksgiving. My wife told me he was making fun of the good Dr. when I wasn't around. It really pisses me off. I just don't understand the logic. It amazes me that something like the 9 trillion dollar debt to foreign nations have no impact on his thinking. Or the imperial Presidency and contempt for the Constitution and the loss of civil liberties. And torture and Blackwater and Valerie Plame and all the other countless corruptions that have become what the federal government is. Some people can not be reasoned with.

[RPinSEAZ]

Apparently these dirt farmers in the ME and Pakistan have people scared enough to sacrifice their own freedom for a false sense of security.

[RPFTW!]

My grandpa's the same way, he's one of those guys that would still love bush no matter how long we stay in Iraq and no matter what the deathtoll is. Sad really he's completely brainwashed.

[sluggo]

I work with a bunch of people who are the same way. They have no problem trashing Ron Paul, even though they don't have the faintest idea as to what he's actually about.

They treat politics like a football game, with Sean Hannity as the cheerleader. If you are not with their team, you are a liberal.:eek:

[LibertyEagle]

Have you guys showed them a chart of the failing U.S. Dollar?

stockcharts.com and type in $USD. For gold, type in $GOLD.

Remind them that we are 9 TRILLION dollars in debt and are borrowing billions per day from countries like Red China. I have found that sometimes this opens the eyes of some of the more stubborn ones.

[Eric21ND]

Definitely show them some graphs and charts and such. Some people learn better visually like that and it rattles their brain a bit.

[sharedvoice]

I would have served him a dish of "Freedom Fries" for Turkey Day lol

[sluggo]

I've tried using the falling dollar, inflation, and progressive taxation as talking points. It's almost impossible to get through to most of them. They all have the impression that if things get too bad, the government will come to save them.

[Eric21ND]

You know when someone is big on the "war of terror" just interject about what sense it makes supposedly fighting terrorists over there when our front door is left wide open for illegal immigration. Bring up a couple stats about how many flood into this country every day/year, etc. Hammer home Ron Paul's strong national security credentials on finally protecting our borders. All the other republicans are weak on illegal immigration, especially Bush. And everyone knows it! Divert this losing subject into a win for Ron Paul on border security. He's the only one that will finally do something about it.

[seapilot]

Government will save them? Reminds me of that movie, Fast Food Nation where they try to free the cattle from the feed lots. After they removed the fence the cattle just stood there, even after they tried to chase them out of the feed lot they felt safe, comfortable there and would not leave.

[DrRich]

few years ago, i was the same way.
I really dont know how my mindset got that way...
its pretty scary really. I know that few of my friends back home are still thinks this way.
They must really put something in the water :)

[billv]

I work with a bunch of people who are the same way. They have no problem trashing Ron Paul, even though they don't have the faintest idea as to what he's actually about.

They treat politics like a football game, with Sean Hannity as the cheerleader. If you are not with their team, you are a liberal.:eek:

They also treat the war like a football game.

[michaelwise]

To the really hard core ones I say; Well as you enjoy going through life with your head crammed up your ass, or How much did you lose on your property value so far, well that's what you get for supporting Bush.

[LukeNM]

Find out who his candidate is and do the same thing. Sometimes it is best not to promote your guy, but point out the shortcomings of the others. That’s what he is doing.

[angrydragon]

Well aren't they the liberals for expanding the government through this unnecessary war?

[bbachtung]

It is interesting that the guy was too scared to engage in any debate with you about RP, and kept having to wait until you were out of earshot to attack RP.

[rodent]

My father in law is a devoted Dubya fan and despises Ron Paul. He came here for Thanksgiving. My wife told me he was making fun of the good Dr. when I wasn't around. It really pisses me off. I just don't understand the logic. It amazes me that something like the 9 trillion dollar debt to foreign nations have no impact on his thinking. Or the imperial Presidency and contempt for the Constitution and the loss of civil liberties. And torture and Blackwater and Valerie Plame and all the other countless corruptions that have become what the federal government is. Some people can not be reasoned with.

The short answer is that your wife got genes from a retard.

[Corydoras]

I hope your wife stood up to that coward who spawned her who couldn't even say these things to your face.

[terlinguatx]

...

[American]

My father in law is a devoted Dubya fan and despises Ron Paul. He came here for Thanksgiving. My wife told me he was making fun of the good Dr. when I wasn't around. It really pisses me off. I just don't understand the logic. It amazes me that something like the 9 trillion dollar debt to foreign nations have no impact on his thinking. Or the imperial Presidency and contempt for the Constitution and the loss of civil liberties. And torture and Blackwater and Valerie Plame and all the other countless corruptions that have become what the federal government is. Some people can not be reasoned with.

So this is where your pessimism is coming from, we all can have our own opinion. When he gets the bill for his decision I am sure he will change his mind. Of simple minded people like this will also say its the Democrats, if RP doesnt get the GOP nod is almost certain the Democrats will win in 08.

You could role play with him, storm over to his house, kick down his door, tear the place to shreads except for the master bedroom, you set up camp in the master bedroom, cut off all power and water to the rest of the house except the master bedroom then make him pay all the bills. Then tell him you were just playing war and you are the US and he is Iraq...

Good luck with that one.

[foofighter20x]

My father in law is a devoted Dubya fan and despises Ron Paul. He came here for Thanksgiving. My wife told me he was making fun of the good Dr. when I wasn't around. It really pisses me off. I just don't understand the logic. It amazes me that something like the 9 trillion dollar debt to foreign nations have no impact on his thinking. Or the imperial Presidency and contempt for the Constitution and the loss of civil liberties. And torture and Blackwater and Valerie Plame and all the other countless corruptions that have become what the federal government is. Some people can not be reasoned with.

It doesn't bother him because he's prey to the thought that nothing will ever happen to him as a result of such policy changes.

His mindset is the illustration the theme of that Niemöller poem, First They Came (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...):

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me,
and by that time
there was no one left to speak up for me.

I think the NOFX variant on that page sums it up best, though.

[fedup100]

Attempt to find someone that they look up to or respect that may be a Paul fan, short of that I think it is hopeless.

Unfortunately, this last generation of 55 and older are the ones that lost the nation for us and are the most brainwashed by the MSM and the reprobate churches. Too bad they vote.

When it all crashes in on top of them financially they will wake up just in time to starve to death.

[OptionsTrader]

Buy the people that joke around about the war and how we must "win" a copy of No End In Sight. (http://www.amazon.com/No-End-Sight-Campbell-Scott/dp/B000U6YJMO)

[akovacs]

Yeah, that's terrible. If he gets the nomination, he'll come over regardless. It's just a "us vs. them" game to them.

I have the problem of trying to convince my parents that he can actually change things. They think he's saying everything to get elected, and that he'll turn around and spit on you after he's elected.

[TechnoGuyRob]

SHOW THEM THIS LIST (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_current_account_balance)

Have fun finding the United States.

P.S. The numbers on that list are in millions.

[Korey Kaczynski]

The short answer is that your wife got genes from a retard.


Hahahaha! Cheers, fellow asshole! :D

[rgampell]

I think this is the real reason that men get more engaged in "politics" than women: It's a game, you pick sides, you fight, etc. It doesn't really matter if Republicans and Democrats are almost exactly the same as each other, because, hey, one jersey has an elephant and the other has a donkey, right?

Nothing wrong with games per se, but if you tell someone that his "game" is actually a serious matter, he can't acknowledge it without being ashamed of himself. And if that person has millions of listeners (Rush, Hannity) or dozens of viewers (Tucker, Matthews), it's even more shameful to acknowledge.

So how do you convert one of these game-players --- which is say, almost everyone, really --- into an RP supporter without shaming him? I honestly have no answer to this. Perhaps it's having someone with a high profile going through this conversion and speaking about it publicly. But is there an alternative?

[bbachtung]

Yeah, that's terrible. If he gets the nomination, he'll come over regardless. It's just a "us vs. them" game to them.

I have the problem of trying to convince my parents that he can actually change things. They think he's saying everything to get elected, and that he'll turn around and spit on you after he's elected.

He's been saying the same things for 30 years, and his voting record backs it all up. How could anyone think that RP was just saying things to get elected? While it is appropriate to be skeptical of politicians, RP is not a politician, he's a statesman; if he just wanted to get the nomination he could act like Romney, Clinton, Fred, Giuliani or any of the countless others who take a poll to decide what color shirt to wear.

[TVMH]

I've come to the conclusion that when logic and reason fail, public ridicule is the best bet.

Don't hold back...make him look stupid...REAL stupid...TO HIS FACE.

:D

[akovacs]

He's been saying the same things for 30 years, and his voting record backs it all up. How could anyone think that RP was just saying things to get elected?

Yeah, I try to tell them that, but they just don't want to listen. He's just another politician to them. Once he gets into the news a bit and they start to see that he really does follow his statements, they will come around.

[jonahtrainer]

It is interesting that the guy was too scared to engage in any debate with you about RP, and kept having to wait until you were out of earshot to attack RP.

I have found this, in addition to argumentum ad hominmem, to be the main tactic of our opposition. This blog (http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/2007_11_20.html)on hit the nail on the head:


After reading the name-calling and other non sequiturs from the anti-Ron Paul crowd, I am of the view that their hostility arises less from his opposition to war, or the direction American foreign policy has taken for decades, or any of the other specific programs he has criticized. What troubles them the most is that Paul has a philosophically-principled integrity in what he advocates and that, to challenge him, one must be prepared to deal with him at that higher level.

But modern political discourse long ago gave up on principles, in favor of the pursuit of power as a sufficient end. There is an intellectual bankruptcy exhibited by writers and speakers on the political "left," "right," or "middle." Competing ideas and values that once engaged the minds of thoughtful men and women have given way to little more than pronouncements on behalf of narrowly-defined political programs; the validity of a proposition no longer depends upon reasoned analysis, but upon the outcome of public opinion polls.

Ron Paul's campaign interjects an energized, principled inquiry into the political realm, an undertaking for which men and women with no philosophic center or rigorous minds find themselves woefully ill-prepared.

It is extremely difficult to deal intellectually with the mentally handicapped. The best tactic seems to be manipulating their feelings. I have found one way to shell-shock these types is to show a chart of the US$ index, point out the trend and then ask 'How are we going to protect ourselves from the terrorists when we are bankrupt? How will we protect ourselves from China and Russia?'

[lastnymleft]

I've tried using the falling dollar, inflation, and progressive taxation as talking points. It's almost impossible to get through to most of them. They all have the impression that if things get too bad, the government will come to save them.

One word for you to put to them: "How?"

You're on a no-lose with that one, because not even Ben Bernanke knows how (well, he knows it, no doubt - go back onto the gold standard, as Dr Paul says).

Show them the graph of the falling dollar. Don't worry about the inflation numbers; they're bogus, and greatly underestimated.

With the falling dollar graph, the logic is simple for them to follow:

Falling dollar problem. What to do? Either:

(1) Cut interest rates--> Depreciating dollar --> More expensive imports --> Domestic inflation / higher cost of living --> Recession --> Reduced Interest Rates and Increased Spending to pump-prime economy from Recession --> Falling Dollar (because to get Reduced interest rates, you have to open up the credit lines, by creating more fiat money, which devalues the dollar).
or
(2) Raise Interest rates, to get overseas investors to buy T-Bonds (it has to be them, because the country is in deficit) and support the dollar --> Housing market collapses --> Recession --> Reduced Interest Rates and Increased Spending to pump-prime economy from Recession --> Falling Dollar --> More expensive imports --> Domestic inflation / higher cost of living --> Recession

The US economy is in a death-spiral that is getting tighter, and tighter. It will reach singularity within the next term, _if not before then_. Either choice - raise interest rates, or reduce interest rates - leads to the same conclusion: inflation, which is just monopoly-mandated, legalized theft.

Don't try to win these arguments now. Lay out your case, and just plant the seed in their minds. Do not put them offside, and do not make it difficult for them to come across. Allow them to save face.

Economic conditions are such that there will be a number of very significant events prior to Nov 4, that will support your story. When such events happen (or even just bad news markers along the way), these people will recognize it, and they will be more susceptible. They will effectively convince themselves, but feel free to point the data out to them, without rubbing it in their faces or gloating.