The fears involved with this "War on Drugs"

[tod evans]

I understand there are many here who have never consumed drugs and many more who attended public school where the evils of drug use were taught..

Using the information you have how could a sane person justify all of the money spent and lives ruined?

What is so "scary" about drugs?

Withdrawal isn't really as it's portrayed in movies, neither is addiction, nor are hallucinations...

As a person who's actually used and experienced these evil drugs I can't understand the propaganda....

[acptulsa]

The propaganda is only hard to understand if you're informed enough to know better. And you have to be much, much better informed than your average Mainstream Mafia consumer to understand just how much money has been spent and just how many lives have been ruined, from Mexico to Afghanistan and beyond.

Big Pharma is the single largest source of lobbying dollars in Washington. And as much as the government hates competition for itself, it hates competition for its biggest contributors more.

[phill4paul]

I understand there are many here who have never consumed drugs and many more who attended public school where the evils of drug use were taught..

Using the information you have how could a sane person justify all of the money spent and lives ruined?

What is so "scary" about drugs?

Withdrawal isn't really as it's portrayed in movies, neither is addiction, nor are hallucinations...

As a person who's actually used and experienced these evil drugs I can't understand the propaganda....

Indoctrination. People tend to believe what they are told to believe. Media, schooling, societal 'norms.' If tomorrow every news cast said that cigarettes were healthy, every ad and t.v. show had someone smoking in it, smoking was allowed in every building and it was considered 'unmanly' not to smoke well.....

[fisharmor]

My nephew is the reason this continues. He just turned 21 and is in rehab for like the fifth or sixth time.
My sister was a drunk the entire time he was growing up. His father is a deadbeat.
He had positive role models - me, my parents, my brothers. But every time I played the Dutch Uncle his mother was lightning quick to countermand everything I said.
He hates his life, he hates his father, he hates his mother (though he doesn't realize it), and now he's a junkie.

He's killing himself, and every time he goes into rehab they're feeding him the bullshit line about how it's the drugs' fault. It's never his fault. It's the standard AA fare: you don't bear any personal responsibility for this, you're not in control.

The war on drugs is directly tied to anti-liberty philosophies in every possible sense. We have to combat these plants and pills because they take people over. Hell, that goes back to Reefer Madness.

I went through rehab myself, in high school. And my main dope-smoking career came after that. I wised up and realized that the first time around I was compensating for being miserable. Miserable in school, miserable at home, miserable everywhere and in all situations except by myself or with friends I chose, and I chose drugs to forget.

Now I'm a lot older and a little wiser, and I realize the thing they are never, ever going to say in rehab: I was miserable for a reason. Most of those reasons are gone now, and I realize that even if they were still here, drugs wouldn't change the fact - they only help you forget about your misery for a while.

They're never going to talk about the reasons these people are miserable, because that's heresy.
These people are miserable because they're put in prison for 12 years as children.
They're miserable because everyone pretends that it's ok for you to grow up with one half-absent parent, and it's really not ok.
They're miserable because even if they can find a job that doesn't involve excrement, they have innumerable barriers to doing anything other than that job, and while they're doing it our state-sponsored truck system is taking at least a quarter of the money they would make.

The war on drugs is going to continue until it breaks America thoroughly. Questioning it requires coming up with valid solutions to my nephew. And the only meaningful solution is to fix his misery.

But most of his misery is caused by the same people who are running rehab.

[tod evans]

Now I'm a lot older and a little wiser,


Much truth here!

I fit that bill well..:o

[donnay]

The problem with people is they want instant gratification and they love fantasy. Drugs do both.

[tod evans]

The problem with people is they want instant gratification and they love fantasy. Drugs do both.

I've never taken "those" drugs...........Which drugs provide fantasy?

LSD, MDA, DMT, PCP, MDMA, psilocybin, pain-pills and powders, speed in it's various forms, and even the earlier anti-psychotics have never provided me with fantasies....

Heck even "acceptable" drugs such as penicillin, tylenol and aspirin haven't......:o

Mind drugs are fun or people wouldn't do them, physical drugs like pain relievers, speed and downers all do as advertised or people wouldn't take them either...

I just don't understand the mentality of demonizing substances....

Could it be that some folks are looking to blame their own poor behavior on what they choose to consume?

Or..........Could it be just a form of social engineering?

[RockEnds]

I don't understand it, either. You would think at some point people would realize that the government is spending an enormous amount of tax dollars to investigate, prosecute, and imprison people who aren't hurting anyone.




...

He's killing himself, and every time he goes into rehab they're feeding him the bullshit line about how it's the drugs' fault. It's never his fault. It's the standard AA fare: you don't bear any personal responsibility for this, you're not in control.



You might be onto something there.




They're never going to talk about the reasons these people are miserable, because that's heresy.
These people are miserable because they're put in prison for 12 years as children.
They're miserable because everyone pretends that it's ok for you to grow up with one half-absent parent, and it's really not ok.
They're miserable because even if they can find a job that doesn't involve excrement, they have innumerable barriers to doing anything other than that job, and while they're doing it our state-sponsored truck system is taking at least a quarter of the money they would make.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dbh_k5GLRuQ

[donnay]

I've never taken "those" drugs...........Which drugs provide fantasy?

LSD, MDA, DMT, PCP, MDMA, psilocybin, pain-pills and powders, speed in it's various forms, and even the earlier anti-psychotics have never provided me with fantasies....

Heck even "acceptable" drugs such as penicillin, tylenol and aspirin haven't......:o

Mind drugs are fun or people wouldn't do them, physical drugs like pain relievers, speed and downers all do as advertised or people wouldn't take them either...

I just don't understand the mentality of demonizing substances....

Could it be that some folks are looking to blame their own poor behavior on what they choose to consume?

Or..........Could it be just a form of social engineering?


Using a mind altering man-made chemical to escape from reality IMHO is fantasy. We have so many people in society who would rather not be independent but dependent on someone or something.

[fisharmor]

I've never taken "those" drugs...........Which drugs provide fantasy?

Pot is my drug of choice, and it provides plenty of fantasy.
Pack up a bowl of monster dank, take that green hit and choke like shit 'cause it's been a year.
It goes around, and by the time it's back to me I remember how it's done. Not like cigs. Slow and steady wins the race.
It comes back around a third time, and everything else fades away, gets a little darker. There's just me and the pipe and the flame.
Nice and smooth. Nice and smooth.
I pass it. The object of my intense scrutiny is gone. The world that was mostly dark all around me a second ago jarringly snaps back into existence. It has that quality to it that nonsmokers can't relate to, which I can only call "fuzzy".
Shit, did I overdo it? Oh God, oh God, did I overdo it?
My heartbeat. My heartbeat.
Oh shit, my hands are cold. I'm shaking.

No, stop it. That's regular you thinking.
Put him away, put him away; stoner Fishy's out to play.
Regular you is on temporary leave.
Let's explore fuzzy.

[tod evans]

Using a mind altering man-made chemical to escape from reality IMHO is fantasy. We have so many people in society who would rather not be independent but dependent on someone or something.

Granted "some" folks use chemicals as an escape, others however use various compounds for their intended use..

Some are "natural" while others are completely synthesized....

Where does the fear perpetrated on the public that's used to justify this "war" come in?

To me "drugs" can all be lumped together into one neat little bundle, I don't differentiate between natural or synthesized any more than I do between aspirin and opium.....

This idea that some drugs are okay if a Dr. prescribes them but if Billy or Suzi takes them without a script then they're bad is really difficult for me....

Just as the idea that recreational use vs therapeutic use could cross the threshold of war-like action on the person consuming...

[donnay]

Granted "some" folks use chemicals as an escape, others however use various compounds for their intended use..

Some are "natural" while others are completely synthesized....

Where does the fear perpetrated on the public that's used to justify this "war" come in?

To me "drugs" can all be lumped together into one neat little bundle, I don't differentiate between natural or synthesized any more than I do between aspirin and opium.....

This idea that some drugs are okay if a Dr. prescribes them but if Billy or Suzi takes them without a script then they're bad is really difficult for me....

Just as the idea that recreational use vs therapeutic use could cross the threshold of war-like action on the person consuming...


Oh I am in total agreement with you--let me try to clarify: The war on drugs is a complete and utter disaster for the people in general. For government it is working perfectly so they can take control of every aspects of our lives. When government declares war on anything it is for nothing more than control.

It's also hypocritical because more people die of prescription drug overdose than they do from illegal drugs.

Sources:
http://blog.sfgate.com/smellthetruth/2013/02/20/prescription-drug-overdoses-killed-23000-americans-in-2010-cannabis-0/
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/11/28/prescription-drug-death.aspx
http://www.latimes.com/news/science/prescription/la-me-prescription-deaths-20121111-html,0,2363903.htmlstory?main=true
http://centralny.ynn.com/content/top_stories/642082/study--prescription-drug-deaths-continue-to-rise/

[kcchiefs6465]

While the War on Drugs is a nonsensical proposition seeing that drugs can never surrender and that you can never win, people should educate their children on the effects of some of these drugs. And while they're at it they should educate their children on the poppy fields of Afghanistan and the cocaine smuggled in military aircraft. Maybe tell them about the poisoned Colombians and the wealth of Monsanto while they're at it.

Realistically a good lot of these drugs are incredibly addictive and harmful. People are going to do them regardless and if they can't keep drugs out of a prison, how the hell people expect them to keep them out of our country is beyond me. Not to mention you can manufacture some of these drugs with a little basic chemistry. Kids (mainly from broken homes, as fisharmor stated) are smoking crack cocaine. Some will turn to prostitution to finance their drug habits. A good lot of them will die, even if it's just emotionally, and they will never change. I've seen some truly sad shit growing up where I grew up. So while the war on drugs is bullshit, talk to your children. I know people who have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars smoking crack cocaine. I wouldn't even know where to start to talk about the ridiculousness. A grown man wearing a pink tutu prancing down the road and doing yardwork for a fat piggly cop for pennies and change is probably about as bad as it gets. I am not even joking or exaggerating about that one. Either that or 12 year old kids talking about walking 6 miles across town to find better crack. Some truly sad shit.

[fisharmor]

I thought crack was basically out at this point? I mean, I'm sure it still exists, but I didn't think it was as pervasive as it was in the late 80's.
My understanding is that crack basically only exists because the CIA totally flooded the country, and they had to do something with it to make it easier to deal with.

[kcchiefs6465]

I thought crack was basically out at this point? I mean, I'm sure it still exists, but I didn't think it was as pervasive as it was in the late 80's.
My understanding is that crack basically only exists because the CIA totally flooded the country, and they had to do something with it to make it easier to deal with.
Out east crack cocaine is everywhere. Out west it seems meth is their drug of choice. I really don't understand how children, who witness what the drug has done to their parents and family, and see the kind of shit you see (a man who walks around everyday in a pink tutu, for example) would ever touch the stuff. Part of it is because you are forced to buy marijuana from the man who sells crack. Crack cocaine is potent, it will absorb in your pores. A good lot of the people who sell it eventually smoke it. If you weigh crack cocaine on a scale, you should not weight marijuana on the same scale. Most dealers don't gaf. They use one scale for heroin or cocaine and weigh marijuana on it a few seconds later. The trace amounts are transferred and whoever he sells it to is smoking what was on the scale. A lot of dealers put their shitty weed in a bag that contained cocaine or they purposely lace it with crack. You would be hard pressed to even be able to tell. Aside from your craving and fiendish attitude towards it. Good medicinal cannabis is miles apart from the dirt weed most kids are smoking.

Crack cocaine evolved from people free basing. No one smuggles crack cocaine into our country, they smuggle cocaine. People here cook it into crack cocaine. CIA contacts in Nicaragua were smuggling cocaine to finance the Contras. The CIA knew about it. George H.W. Bush knew about it and personally knew Barry Seal. The DEA also knew about it and they let major class 1 traffickers operate with impunity. Bill Clinton partied with some of them. Don Tyson being one of them. (the chicken guy) Danilo Blandon supplied Rick Ross. Danilo Blandon, a CIA contact, was very supportive of the Contras. He would send guns and all sorts of shit to Nicaragua to help them fight the Sandinistas. These were not freedom fighters as Reagan claimed. They tortured and killed many people there. We trained some how to properly 'interrogate.' (we trained them on effective methods of torture) And we ought to apologize for the people there who were terrorized. But that's neither here nor there.

When this all broke loose (Mena, Arkansas etc.) a few people were arrested. Danilo Blandon (the supplier) was given a lighter sentence to testify against Rick Ross. (the middleman) IIRC, Danilo Blandon received three years in jail, while Rick Ross received life in prison. (though Rick Ross is out of jail now) Norwin Meneses, a Costa Rican class one major trafficker was a DEA informant. He was 'mistakenly' given immunity for all of his past and future crimes. I believe it was Meneses, anyways. The DEA knew he was trafficking tons of cocaine and even helped free his nephew (I believe it was his nephew, might have been his brother) from a Venezuelan jail. (who was helping in said trafficking of cocaine) The CIA knew about it for years. The DEA knew about it for years. George Bush was personally told by Cele Castillo (a former DEA agent) that cocaine was being shipped back to the United States on these cargo planes and George Bush just smiled and thanked him for his service. Ollie North took the brunt of it. There was a bipartisan presidential pardoning spree and not many people were ever punished. (aside from Rick Ross and the dealers he had working for him)

Dark Alliance by Gary Webb is a very good book on the subject. Powderburns by Cele Castillo is a first hand account of the corruption he witnessed. Cele Castillo was recently released from prison. He was convicted of selling a gun to an ATF informant. This was mainly because of him being outspoken about government complicity in cocaine trafficking.

Here's a powerful video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT5MY3C86bk