Has Rand Flip-flopped on Illegal Immigration?

[T.hill]

Any thoughts on this?

[FriedChicken]

I haven't been following this topic.
How did he describe his position originally? (2010)
How did he describe his position recently? (2012)
How does he describe his position most recently? (now)

[misean]

He hasn't flip flopped. He has only elaborated on his position. The articles you read about him "coming around" or flip flopping on things like immigration or marijuana are wrong.

[Brett85]

No. In 2010 Rand said that he was opposed to amnesty, and he still says that he's opposed to amnesty. He doesn't view a long path to citizenship as being the same as amnesty.

[T.hill]

No. In 2010 Rand said that he was opposed to amnesty, and he still says that he's opposed to amnesty. He doesn't view a long path to citizenship as being the same as amnesty.

What's the difference between the gang of 8's immigration reform plan and Rand's? Other than the border security aspect?

[Brett85]

What's the difference between the gang of 8's immigration reform plan and Rand's? Other than the border security aspect?

The Gang of Eight Plan gives immediate amnesty to all illegal immigrants without securing the borders first. Rand's plan requires border security to be verified by Congress before illegal immigrants can even apply for a work VISA.

[talkingpointes]

Yeah, I was afraid of this. I will not be carrying water and arguing on behalf of this man if this is the material were given.

[Brett85]

Yeah, I was afraid of this. I will not be carrying water and arguing on behalf of this man if this is the material were given.

:confused: :confused:

[talkingpointes]

2010
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/28/rand-paul-us-should-stop_n_593269.html

2011
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/09/to-rand-paul-legal-immigration-is-also-a-concern/

2012
http://www.slate.com/blogs/trending/2012/11/14/rand_paul_on_drugs_immigration_kentucky_senator_pu shes_libertarian_views.html

Consistency... This is just 5 minutes with google.

[juleswin]

What's the difference between the gang of 8's immigration reform plan and Rand's? Other than the border security aspect?

Rand's position is to give the 12 million work permit instead of put em on an automatic path to citizenship. At least with Rand's position, the voting bloc avoids an infusion of 9m+ reliable democratic voters.

[whoisjohngalt]

Yeah, I was afraid of this. I will not be carrying water and arguing on behalf of this man if this is the material were given.

The only position past this is deportation of 12 million people. How can you think that's realistic if you are rational?

[Brett85]

2010
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/28/rand-paul-us-should-stop_n_593269.html

2011
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/09/to-rand-paul-legal-immigration-is-also-a-concern/

2012
http://www.slate.com/blogs/trending/2012/11/14/rand_paul_on_drugs_immigration_kentucky_senator_pu shes_libertarian_views.html

Consistency... This is just 5 minutes with google.

Nothing he said there was inconsistent. He didn't change his views on birthright citizenship or tracking students who come here on VISA's. And he never said back in 2010 that he was opposed to immigration reform or a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants.

[supermario21]

Nothing he said there was inconsistent. He didn't change his views on birthright citizenship or tracking students who come here on VISA's. And he never said back in 2010 that he was opposed to immigration reform or a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants.

This^^^. I see Rand's plan as a call to action to actually fix the border for good and deal with the problem now (rather than ignore it and keep screaming DEPORT! which will never happen).

[sailingaway]

The only position past this is deportation of 12 million people. How can you think that's realistic if you are rational?

Unless there is a special caveat in the law saying they can't be made citizens, current law already lets those here legally (which they then would be) 'adjust' to a citizenship path. Once citizens, chain migration starts from them with family preferences, which is a huge multiplier of those already here, and they would self select, on a family preference basis before others. With Obamacare, they may self select for health reasons as well. This is a big difference between having an 'asterisk' as Ron put it, on a green card so they couldn't get benefits and couldn't become citizens and what Rand appears to be suggesting. The asterisk approach balences the cruelty of kicking out people who have been here many years, with the fact that they came illegally, and most already got benefits of some sort if they have been here that long, even if it is emergency rooms and children going to taxpayer funded schools. If you subsidize something, you get more of it. And rewarding law breaking will bring more of it. Legalization is a reward, but deportation of those here a long time who have otherwise been good people becomes cruel. But citizenship isn't necessary, particularly since they ARE going to get benefits which impacts the services citizens have to use. There is a much greater burden with chain migration from citizens. Also, the voting comes into play. There is no way to 'secure' the border sufficiently if those incentives keep people coming for those reasons, imho.

To be honest, the fact that no one is discussing these issues, with the chain migration being a number in multiples above however many are already here, makes me pretty confident the bills being considered are to address the concerns of special interests, and not the impacts on taxpayers.

[Christian Liberty]

Any thoughts on this?

To waste time focusing on illegal immigration is to attack symptoms and ignore causes.

Let them come, just stop stealing my money to pay for them...

[T.hill]

To waste time focusing on illegal immigration is to attack symptoms and ignore causes.

Let them come, just stop stealing my money to pay for them...

Who's time is wasted?

[Christian Liberty]

Its a distraction from the real issues, like the parasite class and the welfare state.

[T.hill]

To waste time focusing on illegal immigration is to attack symptoms and ignore causes.

Let them come, just stop stealing my money to pay for them...

besides, I thought an honest discussion would always be good.

[Christian Liberty]

There's nothing wrong with discussion it I suppose, but if anyone is using this for an excuse to discredit Rand, I think its silly. Ultimately, there are only two issues that matter in US Politics, ending the Fed and ending the Empire. Everything else is either a problem because of one of those two, or fairly easy to fix without one of those two.