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fr33
03-21-2013, 09:15 PM
http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/us-brought-911-on-itself/2013/03/21/id/495758


Kara Sands of Corpus Christi was looking over one of her son’s test and was bothered by one of the questions: Why might the United States be a target for terrorism? The correct answer was “Decisions we made in the United States have had negative effects on people elsewhere.”


More at link.

Can't have the truth taught in schools can we? 'Murica, fuck yeah!

jim49er
03-21-2013, 09:20 PM
lol

QuickZ06
03-21-2013, 09:32 PM
http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/us-brought-911-on-itself/2013/03/21/id/495758



More at link.

Can't have the truth taught in schools can we? 'Murica, fuck yeah!

Hell no, now shut up! These colors don't run!

Anti Federalist
03-21-2013, 10:38 PM
'Murica!

http://mikkiaaron.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/murica_6cd297e8f8b040c6ad41c1430077f1ba.jpg

MRK
03-21-2013, 11:12 PM
That's pretty awesome.

anaconda
03-21-2013, 11:22 PM
Blowback against blowback.

AGRP
03-21-2013, 11:27 PM
Kara Sands is not your average mom. Here she is embracing someone named Keith Rose:

http://media.caller.com/media/img/photos/2008/01/06/20080106-025347-pic-653203202_t607.jpg

Here she is demonstrating the wonderful military gear Keith is involved with. Nice diamond earrings Kara:

http://media.caller.com/media/img/photos/2008/01/06/20080106-025347-pic-545895270_t607.jpg

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/keith-rose/5/430/363

Keith Rose is heavily involved in the military industry. He is a consultant for Blackhawk Products group:

BLACKHAWK! Products Group™, founded in 1993 by President and CEO Mike Noell, is a leading US manufacturer of tactical, military, shooting sports and law enforcement equipment. BLACKHAWK! is a global manufacturer of tactical gear, body armor, law enforcement duty gear, holsters, hydration systems, protective gloves and gear, apparel and footwear, knives, illumination tools, breaching tools, hunting gear, and recoil reducing stocks. BLACKHAWK! headquarters is in Norfolk, Virginia, with US manufacturing facilities in North Carolina, Montana, and Idaho.

More here: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/keith-rose/5/430/363

green73
03-22-2013, 07:19 AM
Never mind,

Posted here
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?408568-Texas-Mom-Upset-that-Blowback-is-Being-Taught-in-School

fisharmor
03-22-2013, 07:23 AM
Oh, I suddenly get the war in the middle east thing.

It's not about oil.

There's apparently a shortage of sand here for people to bury their heads in.

The Goat
03-22-2013, 07:38 AM
The picture of the test on her page is a Neo-con circle jerk. XD

you can't post unless you her "friend". lol

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200690473569569&set=pb.1393073779.-2207520000.1363959219&type=3&theater

moostraks
03-22-2013, 08:27 AM
Comments assure me I am doing to the right thing by homeschooling. I do not want my children associating with their view of the world. Some of those people she has posting are so bitter and self righteous it is scary.

jmdrake
03-22-2013, 08:30 AM
Comments assure me I am doing to the right thing by homeschooling. I do not want my children associating with their view of the world. Some of those people she has posting are so bitter and self righteous it is scary.

Yep. Abolish public schools. If someone wants to be stupid enough to teach their children that America has never done anything wrong and has never provoked any attacks then that person should do it on his/her own dime.

QuickZ06
03-22-2013, 09:25 AM
So, when did it become okay to teach our children that the United States is to blame for the September 11th terrorist attacks? This test was given to my son and other 5th grade students at the Flour Bluff Intermediate School after they watched a video titled "Remembering September 11th". I was shown this video Tuesday and was shocked by it's content. This appalling video blames our country for the the murders of over 3,000 people.Today I met with members of the administration and asked that this video be pulled to which I was told that they would "review" it. The most unsettling part of the meeting was when one of the Flour Bluff school administrators informed me that she didn't see any problem with the video because she also believes that our "bad decisions" resulted in our country being attacked. Folks, we have a serious problem. This is nothing more than good old-fashioned propaganda and there are people at our kid's school who think this is perfectly fine. Well, I don't and if you don't either please take action. Parents, it's up to us to protect and defend our children. If we don't stand up for our children, who will? Please message me if you would like to help take back our schools -- together we can do this.


YES WE CAN!!!!!!!

angelatc
03-22-2013, 09:26 AM
The picture of the test on her page is a Neo-con circle jerk. XD

you can't post unless you her "friend". lol

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200690473569569&set=pb.1393073779.-2207520000.1363959219&type=3&theater


The news channel KRIS has a Facebook page, but they haven't linked to the story. What dummies.

The best thing we can do here is not help this go any more viral. (But those of you who think Glenn Beck is coming around? Watch this!)

Personally, I can't believe they have a segment for remembering 9/11. Kids can't worship their God in school, but they are forced to worship the government's shrine.

QuickZ06
03-22-2013, 09:27 AM
The hate us and did it because we are free, we have McDonalds, ee watch Jersey Shore, we have HD TV, blah blah blah this is not propaganda kids this is the truth at least according to MAT Mothers Against Terrorism.

angelatc
03-22-2013, 09:29 AM
Sure, but they'll swamp the school board meeting and shove their self-righteous agenda through. They're just like liberals - no room for the truth in their world.

KingNothing
03-22-2013, 09:35 AM
They hate us for our freedom, which is why they attack Canada, and Sweden, and Japan, and Australia.

kathy88
03-22-2013, 09:54 AM
Don't blame her, she voted for Romney.

Matt Collins
03-22-2013, 10:53 AM
The problem is when people discuss this sort of thing they always say "we screwed up" or "the US made a mistake" etc. What they SHOULD be saying is "the government screwed up" or "the government made a mistake" or "the government launched an illegal war".

That helps neutralize some of the jingoistic national pride people have during the discussion. People don't like to be told they screwed up, but when you frame it as the government screwing up, it becomes much easier to swallow.

Christian Liberty
03-22-2013, 11:00 AM
The problem is when people discuss this sort of thing they always say "we screwed up" or "the US made a mistake" etc. What they SHOULD be saying is "the government screwed up" or "the government made a mistake" or "the government launched an illegal war".

I sometimes mess this up but this is the right way to do it...

TonySutton
03-22-2013, 11:22 AM
The picture of the test on her page is a Neo-con circle jerk. XD

you can't post unless you her "friend". lol

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200690473569569&set=pb.1393073779.-2207520000.1363959219&type=3&theater

right click on image, save image as, save to desktop, post to your own facebook page :)

TonySutton
03-22-2013, 11:23 AM
One might think she would be happy her child got 100% on the test, sheeesh

AGRP
03-22-2013, 11:41 AM
Kara Sands is not your average mom. Here she is embracing someone named Keith Rose:

http://media.caller.com/media/img/photos/2008/01/06/20080106-025347-pic-653203202_t607.jpg

Here she is demonstrating the wonderful military gear Keith is involved with:

http://media.caller.com/media/img/photos/2008/01/06/20080106-025347-pic-545895270_t607.jpg

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/keith-rose/5/430/363

Keith Rose is heavily involved in the military industry. He is a consultant for Blackhawk Products group:

BLACKHAWK! Products Group™, founded in 1993 by President and CEO Mike Noell, is a leading US manufacturer of tactical, military, shooting sports and law enforcement equipment. BLACKHAWK! is a global manufacturer of tactical gear, body armor, law enforcement duty gear, holsters, hydration systems, protective gloves and gear, apparel and footwear, knives, illumination tools, breaching tools, hunting gear, and recoil reducing stocks. BLACKHAWK! headquarters is in Norfolk, Virginia, with US manufacturing facilities in North Carolina, Montana, and Idaho.

More here: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/keith-rose/5/430/363

UpperDecker
03-22-2013, 11:43 AM
http://i.qkme.me/357h92.jpg

Maybe we SHOULD be teaching this in school, then maybe the children will learn from the mistakes of our "leaders" to make sure things like this never happen again. Oops, I mean THEY HATE 'MURICA CUZ OUR FREEDOM!

KingNothing
03-22-2013, 11:46 AM
Well, she is quite attractive. It's a shame that she's either a shill for the MIC, or an absurd neocon.

KingNothing
03-22-2013, 11:50 AM
Can't it be that some Muslim Extremist Nutjobs really do hate us for our freedoms, wealth, non-muslimness, friendship with Israel, AND our involvement in their countries?

Why does the AMERICA, FU&K YEAH! crowd always completely disregard the very simple concept of actions having consequences? And at the same time, does anyone really think that some segment of the Muslim Radical population wouldn't still hate us even if we became staunch isolationists? Admittedly they'd have a harder time signing people up to bomb us, but there still would be SOME people who hated us just because we're a westernized nation. This doesn't have to be a binary thing.

fr33
03-22-2013, 11:51 AM
Why does the AMERICA, FU&K YEAH! crowd always completely disregard the very simple concept of actions having consequences?

Manifest Destiny is still on their minds.

James Madison
03-22-2013, 11:53 AM
Well, she is quite attractive. It's a shame that she's either a shill for the MIC, or an absurd neocon.

Trophy Wife.

Guy must've come in 4th.

AGRP
03-22-2013, 11:56 AM
Well, she is quite attractive. It's a shame that she's either a shill for the MIC, or an absurd neocon.

Do diamond ear rings grow on trees?

UpperDecker
03-22-2013, 11:59 AM
Can't it be that some Muslim Extremist Nutjobs really do hate us for our freedoms, wealth, non-muslimness, friendship with Israel, AND our involvement in their countries?

Why does the AMERICA, FU&K YEAH! crowd always completely disregard the very simple concept of actions having consequences? And at the same time, does anyone really think that some segment of the Muslim Radical population wouldn't still hate us even if we became staunch isolationists? Admittedly they'd have a harder time signing people up to bomb us, but there still would be SOME people who hated us just because we're a westernized nation. This doesn't have to be a binary thing.

That may be, but it is used as a joke because of people like this woman and the majority of the people commenting on her photo.

libertygrl
03-22-2013, 12:09 PM
Blowback against blowback.

I saw this report briefly mentioned on Fox News this morning. The tagline before they showed the segment was something like "Mother upset school test has 9-11 propaganda question. Wait till you hear." So I'm thinking it had to do with one of the so called "conspracy theories." So they come back and show the test and the narration went something like: "The test is blaming the US and implies that it was our foreign policy that makes people in other countries mad at us." Then they did a close up of one of the two Barbie dolls on in the morning and the look on her face:

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4986247506821877&pid=15.1

Like.... are they still believeing the line that they HATE US FOR OUR FREEDOMS???

But this is actually GREAT NEWS. Think about how far the movement has come from the days when Ron Paul was attacked by Gouliani which launched him into immortality! :D


I have to tell you, when I get ready for work and in the morning and I see these Barbie dolls blathering more propaganda, I don't know weather to laugh or puke. They all look like Stepford wives. LOL. They all wear the similar sleeveless dresses, perched on their chairs with the exact crossing of their legs and they are all bleached blondes. Maybe Fox News needs this in order to mesmerize their male viewers to accept the propaganda.

It's such a joke at how low tv news has gotten. Maybe that's why there are no tv anchors with backbone that sees what's going on and remains silent. Then again, I maybe giving these Barbie dolls too much credit. They maybe too stupid and actually believe the lies thay are selling us. :rolleyes:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-p4ar8KUuRcY/Ta8d-aeg1BI/AAAAAAAAALU/AM69GJe_OlQ/s1600/blond_women_of_fox.jpg

AGRP
03-22-2013, 12:17 PM
Lets see...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9g2037e0BQ

or...

http://www.ladyandtheblog.com/files/2010/11/diamond-earrings.jpg

?

jmdrake
03-22-2013, 12:21 PM
In other words....blowback is good for her bottom line.


Kara Sands is not your average mom. Here she is embracing someone named Keith Rose:

http://media.caller.com/media/img/photos/2008/01/06/20080106-025347-pic-653203202_t607.jpg

Here she is demonstrating the wonderful military gear Keith is involved with:

http://media.caller.com/media/img/photos/2008/01/06/20080106-025347-pic-545895270_t607.jpg

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/keith-rose/5/430/363

Keith Rose is heavily involved in the military industry. He is a consultant for Blackhawk Products group:

BLACKHAWK! Products Group™, founded in 1993 by President and CEO Mike Noell, is a leading US manufacturer of tactical, military, shooting sports and law enforcement equipment. BLACKHAWK! is a global manufacturer of tactical gear, body armor, law enforcement duty gear, holsters, hydration systems, protective gloves and gear, apparel and footwear, knives, illumination tools, breaching tools, hunting gear, and recoil reducing stocks. BLACKHAWK! headquarters is in Norfolk, Virginia, with US manufacturing facilities in North Carolina, Montana, and Idaho.

More here: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/keith-rose/5/430/363

bunklocoempire
03-22-2013, 12:23 PM
http://s6.postimg.org/5d8qu6okx/bug_eyed.png

"Blame America!? We're supposed to SUPPORT our troops!"

shane77m
03-22-2013, 12:28 PM
The picture of the test on her page is a Neo-con circle jerk. XD

you can't post unless you her "friend". lol

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200690473569569&set=pb.1393073779.-2207520000.1363959219&type=3&theater

I think those comments are quite possibly the biggest pile of festering dog snot I have ever seen.


http://youtu.be/DJLMtRt88ZU

NIU Students for Liberty
03-22-2013, 12:39 PM
As a teacher, I don't agree with the format of that test. While I don't have a problem with teaching the concept of blowback (I plan to introduce it after my students complete our Cold War unit), the teacher should be introducing multiple perspectives and not just forcing students to accept his/her point of view. In a social science class, students should be learning how to develop their OWN arguments based on reason and evidence, not the memorization of a teacher's lecture.

At least that's how I try to approach my class.

James Madison
03-22-2013, 12:44 PM
This is a major reason, for me, why the South isn't a viable place for relocation.

shane77m
03-22-2013, 12:47 PM
The comments over at the Blaze page are even worse than the ones on her Farcebook page. We are doomed I tell ya, doomed. Between this and people thinking that BearCat's look like the Batmobile, we are doomed....:(

kcchiefs6465
03-22-2013, 12:50 PM
The comments over at the Blaze page are even worse than the ones on her Farcebook page. We are doomed I tell ya, doomed. Between this and people thinking that BearCat's look like the Batmobile, we are doomed....:(
Wait, what? I must have missed something.

I expect nothing less from the Blaze. Glenn Beck has been spouting his nonsense for quite some time. He and his buddy mocked Ron Paul all show for Ron Paul's statement about blowback.

Christian Liberty
03-22-2013, 12:52 PM
This is a major reason, for me, why the South isn't a viable place for relocation.

True... At least at the state level they can't actually create empire...

jmdrake
03-22-2013, 12:54 PM
As a teacher, I don't agree with the format of that test. While I don't have a problem with teaching the concept of blowback (I plan to introduce it after my students complete our Cold War unit), the teacher should be introducing multiple perspectives and not just forcing students to accept his/her point of view. In a social science class, students should be learning how to develop their OWN arguments based on reason and evidence, not the memorization of a teacher's lecture.

At least that's how I try to approach my class.

I agree. Reading the article in the OP there were somethings being taught in that curriculum that most of us here would disagree with. Example:


Sands has had an ongoing issue with the CSCOPE curriculum, citing a Bill of Rights test where food and medicine was listed as a right and not a personal responsibility.

"He got marked wrong, because it is, it is our responsibility for shelter, it’s our responsibility for food for medicine, it’s not the government's responsibility," Sands said.

She also posted a photo on Facebook of a worksheet where fossil fuels and natural gas were portrayed in a negative light.

“Fossil fuels are not good for the environment. They produce carbon dioxide when burned. Many scientists believe this is causing the Earth to get warmer,” according to the worksheet.


These kids are being taught to blur the line between fact and opinion.

Christian Liberty
03-22-2013, 01:03 PM
At least the blowback thing is actually true. And what does food have to do with a Bill of Rights? Its not in the Bill of Rights, and positive rights are bullcrap anyway.

shane77m
03-22-2013, 01:06 PM
Wait, what? I must have missed something.

I expect nothing less from the Blaze. Glenn Beck has been spouting his nonsense for quite some time. He and his buddy mocked mocked Ron Paul all show for Ron Paul's statement about blowback.


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?408595-BearCat-Excessive-or-defensive


“It’s kind of intimidating,” said Clinton resident Carlos Laguna, “It kind of looks like something we don’t really need, like something out the movies. It reminds me of the Batmobile in the new movies.”

A quote from the article. At least the guy does say that he doesn't think we need the BearCats.

BamaAla
03-22-2013, 01:17 PM
I've found myself in a debate over this after a "friend" shared it on facebook. I even went as far as to stipulate that one of the many factors was the veteran's claimed "caliphate" and "jihad," but they are convinced that the 9/11 Commission, CIA, and every suggestion of blowback is absurd and a product of the liberal "blame America" machine.

I'm at a loss.

kcchiefs6465
03-22-2013, 01:18 PM
“It should be intimidating,” Werner said. “I’m not scared of it. I’m not breaking the law. If you’re breaking the law, you should be intimidated. You should know there’s stuff out there to stop you.”
Sigh.

James Madison
03-22-2013, 01:31 PM
I've found myself in a debate over this after a "friend" shared it on facebook. I even went as far as to stipulate that one of the many factors was the veteran's claimed "caliphate" and "jihad," but they are convinced that the 9/11 Commission, CIA, and every suggestion of blowback is absurd and a product of the liberal "blame America" machine.

I'm at a loss.

Have you posted the video of Michael Schuerer?

BamaAla
03-22-2013, 01:36 PM
Have you posted the video of Michael Schuerer?

I'm in the process of quoting him, but I fear that my work is in vain.

freejack
03-22-2013, 01:39 PM
I don't know why I keep coming back to these forums to be bombarded by news of all the stupidity/evil out there. It's downright depressing.

fr33
03-22-2013, 01:45 PM
I don't know why I keep coming back to these forums to be bombarded by news of all the stupidity/evil out there. It's downright depressing.

I don't need the forums to be depressed. I live amongst these types of people. Hell, I was raised by them.

Cutlerzzz
03-22-2013, 01:55 PM
Kara Sands is not your average mom. She is a milf.

http://media.caller.com/media/img/photos/2008/01/06/20080106-025347-pic-653203202_t607.jpg

Here she is demonstrating the wonderful military gear Keith is involved with:

http://media.caller.com/media/img/photos/2008/01/06/20080106-025347-pic-545895270_t607.jpg

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/keith-rose/5/430/363

Keith Rose is heavily involved in the military industry. He is a consultant for Blackhawk Products group:

BLACKHAWK! Products Group™, founded in 1993 by President and CEO Mike Noell, is a leading US manufacturer of tactical, military, shooting sports and law enforcement equipment. BLACKHAWK! is a global manufacturer of tactical gear, body armor, law enforcement duty gear, holsters, hydration systems, protective gloves and gear, apparel and footwear, knives, illumination tools, breaching tools, hunting gear, and recoil reducing stocks. BLACKHAWK! headquarters is in Norfolk, Virginia, with US manufacturing facilities in North Carolina, Montana, and Idaho.

More here: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/keith-rose/5/430/363
fixed

QuickZ06
03-22-2013, 01:59 PM
I don't need the forums to be depressed. I live amongst these types of people. Hell, I was raised by them.

This place keeps me sane, makes me realize there are others out there who still care about freedom, liberty and have a good head on their shoulders.

Cutlerzzz
03-22-2013, 02:06 PM
I've found myself in a debate over this after a "friend" shared it on facebook. I even went as far as to stipulate that one of the many factors was the veteran's claimed "caliphate" and "jihad," but they are convinced that the 9/11 Commission, CIA, and every suggestion of blowback is absurd and a product of the liberal "blame America" machine.

I'm at a loss.
Ask the. How many children died in Iraq as a result of the sanctions. See if they can justify it.

James Madison
03-22-2013, 02:21 PM
Ask the. How many children died in Iraq as a result of the sanctions. See if they can justify it.

Arab lives don't matter to the 'love it or leave it' crowd. In their eyes, Arabs are nothing more than a bunch of Muslims who wish to harm their precious little Israel, God's 'chosen people'.

libertygrl
03-22-2013, 02:43 PM
I've found myself in a debate over this after a "friend" shared it on facebook. I even went as far as to stipulate that one of the many factors was the veteran's claimed "caliphate" and "jihad," but they are convinced that the 9/11 Commission, CIA, and every suggestion of blowback is absurd and a product of the liberal "blame America" machine.

I'm at a loss.

OMG. That's EXACTLY the line I'm always given. Doesn't that sound familiar? It should. It's the same mantra Faux News uses over and over again - "the liberal media blames America". Did you ask his opinion why he thought we were attacked? Does he believe that it's because "they hate us for our freedoms crap??"

Let's keep in mind that while there are people who still believe this garbage, many more have been awakened since 9-11. Also, there are activist groups out there whose job is to visit forums, facebook, etc., and discredit truthful information to keep the lie going. So I'm not sure if we are getting an accurate reading on this issue.

libertygrl
03-22-2013, 02:45 PM
Arab lives don't matter to the 'love it or leave it' crowd. In their eyes, Arabs are nothing more than a bunch of Muslims who wish to harm their precious little Israel, God's 'chosen people'.

After the cold war ended, the military industrial complex needed a new boogey man. So here we are today. There must always be an enemy.

libertygrl
03-22-2013, 03:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95ncn5Q16N4



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlAh-WnAoSE

anaconda
03-22-2013, 03:35 PM
The test questions should have included:

1) Which building came down into it's own footprint at 5:20 PM?

a) Building 3

b) Building 2

c) Building 5

d) Building 7

e) none of the above

True or False:

Rudolf Giuliani stated live on ABC News with Peter Jennings that he and others were told that "The World Trade Center was going to collapse."

At what time did the BBC report the collapse of WTC 7?

a) 5:26 PM

b) 5:41 PM

c) 4:54 PM

d) 6:00 PM

Carsten2012b
03-22-2013, 04:35 PM
Just look at some of these comments on Facebook:


You know what I'm sick and tired of? People telling me I should feel ashamed of America. The politicians, teachers, so called leaders that indoctrinate all of us with this self hating nonsense. You know what........America IS better. We excel, this country is excellent, I am not ashamed if that. A baby country a little over two hundred years old that feeds the entire worlds hungry, that has had most if not all worthy inventions and inventors come out if her belly; light bulb, cars, air conditioning, assembly lines,etc etc times a billion.not to mention all the missionary work that blesses the entire globe. So no, I'm not ashamed of the greatest nation to grace this planet. #stoptheindoctrination

We have to take our country back but first we have to take our childrens education back. Once they have your childrens minds they can do anythiny they want! We must always know exactly what our children are being taught!

At least Melinda has some sense.

The question was poorly written. Its not America's fault. Its America's warmongering leaders who are the problem. Where exactly in our Constitution does it say our leaders are suppose to "Nation build" and overthrow gvmts? Does "Strong Domestic Defence" (see Preamble) mean aggression in other countries? Or does it mean defense within our boarders? Leann, the question was not about what drives the lunatic fringe. It was why might we be a target. The proper answer is not in the list of choices. It should have been B & C. However B is poorly worded. Look at it this way. Your neighbor is afraid your dog is going to jump the fence and kill his children. So he comes into your back yard and kills your dog, but in the process also kills your children. Do you then hate your neighbor? Do you come up with a plan to get even? Or do you say, well that is just the way he is and go on with your life? Really Janice... Would you hate your neighbor or not? And I still haven't gotten an answer about where in our Constitution is says we are suppose to nation build and overthrow gvmts. Have you found it. Because I have had no luck. As a collective, we Americans, are a pretty smart bunch of people. It is the lunatics we are forever putting in power that convince people that aggression is the answer for everything. Aggression is an answer at times, but to let mass hysteria rule the minds and hearts to the point it over shadows simple common sense is absurd. Take a breath, take a step back and put the shoe on the other foot and then give me an honest answer about what you would do. It is simple as the nose on your face. 9/11 sparked a decade + long assault on terrorists. What was happening in those terrorist countries prior to that assault. Human beings no matter what race or culture they come from are going to react in the same basic ways. I don't defend what the terrorists do any more than I can defend the deaths of their children as collateral damage. The insanity has got to stop and I have absolutely no answers as to how that is going to happen. Apparently Janice, you hear only what you want to hear and are too frightened or unwilling to THINK. Much less step back and look at both sides. Hence placing yourself inadvertently as part of the problem instead of deliberately part of the solution. We as civilians do not make the choices to kill in other nations any more than the bystanders in those other nations choose to kill in our country. So, no we are NOT the great evil. The Great Evil in sitting in the Oval Office and pulling the strings to keep the world at war. Along with other world leaders. They have given us a reason to hate them. What foreign policies can you point to that our gvmt has put into place in the past that has caused death and destruction in terrorist countries that may have sparked the same feelings in those countries? Even if it is not our physical forces, the terrorists know it is our money that is supplying their enemies. It is not black and white, us and them. Our 3000 lost is just as precious to us and any 3000 of theirs are to them. My heartache is the children, both theirs and our own... Hate is learned, are we going to continue to be the teachers? Are their terrified mothers all over the world who are continuing to be the teachers? When will it ever stop?

BlackTerrel
03-22-2013, 07:09 PM
I know it's so awesome and exciting that kids are taught this viewpoint but how can any free thinker can view this as anything but propaganda?

The Question was:

Why might the United States be a target for terrorism:

A. Other people just don't like Americans
B. Decisions we made in the United States have had negative effects on people elsewhere
C. Terrorists hate everyone

The correct answer is B.

You're telling me that A and C are never correct? Everyone who has ever attacked the US has done so for rational reasons?

How come in all the Syria threads the dominant belief is that Syria is just being attacked by evil religious fanatical psychopaths? The extremists who attack Syria never attacked the US?

BlackTerrel
03-22-2013, 07:14 PM
The hate us and did it because we are free, we have McDonalds, ee watch Jersey Shore, we have HD TV, blah blah blah this is not propaganda kids this is the truth at least according to MAT Mothers Against Terrorism.

As opposed to Syria which is being attacked because they are good and free and Muslim radicals hate them for no reason.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?408467-Gruesome-Video-Shows-Syrian-Rebel-Beheading-Civilian

Damn terrorists.

BlackTerrel
03-22-2013, 07:15 PM
Why does the AMERICA, FU&K YEAH! crowd always completely disregard the very simple concept of actions having consequences? And at the same time, does anyone really think that some segment of the Muslim Radical population wouldn't still hate us even if we became staunch isolationists? Admittedly they'd have a harder time signing people up to bomb us, but there still would be SOME people who hated us just because we're a westernized nation. This doesn't have to be a binary thing.

Muslim terrorists hate Syria for no reason. But no chance any radical would ever hate the US for no reason.

BlackTerrel
03-22-2013, 07:17 PM
As a teacher, I don't agree with the format of that test. While I don't have a problem with teaching the concept of blowback (I plan to introduce it after my students complete our Cold War unit), the teacher should be introducing multiple perspectives and not just forcing students to accept his/her point of view. In a social science class, students should be learning how to develop their OWN arguments based on reason and evidence, not the memorization of a teacher's lecture.

At least that's how I try to approach my class.

Two viewpoints? No way. You missed the memo that the US is always to blame.

BlackTerrel
03-22-2013, 07:19 PM
Arab lives don't matter to the 'love it or leave it' crowd. In their eyes, Arabs are nothing more than a bunch of Muslims who wish to harm their precious little Israel, God's 'chosen people'.

Why do we hate the Arabs so much? Because they are free?

fr33
03-22-2013, 07:36 PM
Why do we hate the Arabs so much? Because they are free?
Who's we? You got a turd in your pocket? ;)


Two viewpoints? No way. You missed the memo that the US is always to blame.
Nobody's saying that. Although the question and answer is not how I would have worded it, I see it as a positive thing that US imperialism is being questioned in a school. It never really was when I was in school.

BlackTerrel
03-22-2013, 07:52 PM
Who's we? You got a turd in your pocket? ;)

A common view on these forums is that we hate them for no reason - yet it's absurd to believe that they hate us for no reason.

We have threads where the majority view is that Muslim radical terrorists are beheading and blowing up Syrians for no good reason other than religious extremism but there is no room for the viewpoint that some extremists attack the US for similar reasons?


Nobody's saying that. Although the question and answer is not how I would have worded it, I see it as a positive thing that US imperialism is being questioned in a school. It never really was when I was in school.

It's not being questioned it's being taught as fact. It's a question that can't even be answered as multiple choice - there are clearly many reasons why the US may the target of a terrorist attack. To state that there is only one reason and it is because of America's actions is just as much propaganda as saying the reason is "because we are free".

The world isn't absolutes and if we're supposed to be free thinkers we should be better than that. Not embrace blatant propaganda at government schools just because it fits our argument.

fr33
03-22-2013, 08:22 PM
A common view on these forums is that we hate them for no reason - yet it's absurd to believe that they hate us for no reason.
Again with the "we hate". And absolutely nobody is saying they hate "us" for no reason.


We have threads where the majority view is that Muslim radical terrorists are beheading and blowing up Syrians for no good reason other than religious extremism but there is no room for the viewpoint that some extremists attack the US for similar reasons?That viewpoint has been pointed out in this very thread and has not been denied so far.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?408568-Texas-Mom-Upset-that-Blowback-is-Being-Taught-in-School&p=4938865&viewfull=1#post4938865

I don't see anybody on rpf defending radical forms of Islam. What I see is people refusing to condemn whole populations due to the actions of a few.


It's not being questioned it's being taught as fact. It's a question that can't even be answered as multiple choice - there are clearly many reasons why the US may the target of a terrorist attack. To state that there is only one reason and it is because of America's actions is just as much propaganda as saying the reason is "because we are free".

The world isn't absolutes and if we're supposed to be free thinkers we should be better than that. Not embrace blatant propaganda at government schools just because it fits our argument.
It is a fact that US foreign policy as we know it played a larger role in 911 than religion did. One multiple choice question doesn't negate the massive amount of propaganda students will be taught in every other class that deals with this topic; not to mention the MSM propaganda that drowns out any discussion on the topic of blowback.

kcchiefs6465
03-22-2013, 08:23 PM
Muslim terrorists hate Syria for no reason. But no chance any radical would ever hate the US for no reason.
What? 'Muslim terrorists' want to seize control of the Syrian government. They want to be in power. There are a couple religions that were safer under Assad than they will be when a radical Islamist seizes control of the military.

No chance a radical would ever hate the US for no reason? I guess there is a chance? They really wouldn't have to be too educated to find an actual reason to hate us though. And I'm sure people in the region do not forget our interventions as quickly as the taxpayer does. I'm sure there are a few Syrians who were alive in '49.

presence
03-22-2013, 10:15 PM
THEY HATE 'MURICA CUZ OUR FREEDOM!


/thread

supermario21
03-25-2013, 11:22 AM
This teacher is going to be on Fox News now with Megyn Kelly.

kcchiefs6465
03-25-2013, 11:40 AM
This teacher is going to be on Fox News now with Megyn Kelly.
Well that ought to go nowhere.

kcchiefs6465
03-25-2013, 11:43 AM
Thanks for the heads up though, super. She is going to be on next.

kcchiefs6465
03-25-2013, 11:46 AM
Hmm. Must not watch television much. I've never seen the 'send Israel money' commercial. I guess Fox News is a fitting place for it.

supermario21
03-25-2013, 11:47 AM
Hmm. Must not watch television much. I've never seen the 'send Israel money' commercial. I guess Fox News is a fitting place for it.


lol, heard it wrong. seems like it's the parent not the teacher. oh well. let's see how this goes. at least fox has gold commercials to offset the israel ones.

kcchiefs6465
03-25-2013, 11:54 AM
I thought Megyn Kelly said it was going to be the teacher too.

I don't even think that it deserves a summary. I'm a little disappointed with how unrememberable the interview was. Megyn Kelly interrupted a lot, asked a few dumb questions. That's about it.

itshappening
03-25-2013, 11:55 AM
Send her the comments from Obama's top GENERAL:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?408960-Top-General-Drone-strikes-causing-blowback

Drones causing blowback.

Try and educate her.

I think she's been on fox spreading her fake outrage.

Christian Liberty
03-25-2013, 12:00 PM
Anything is possible. So yes, a given terrorist could hate us for no reason. Obviously. Foreign policy, however, is a much bigger factor here than just us existing. I honestly can't imagine free market security being unable to deal with those few who really do hate us for "No reason" or some other reason when we pacify the vast majority of them by pulling back.

kcchiefs6465
03-25-2013, 12:01 PM
Send her the comments from Obama's top GENERAL:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?408960-Top-General-Drone-strikes-causing-blowback

Drones causing blowback.

Try and educate her.

I think she's been on fox spreading her fake outrage.
I almost forgot. It was honestly that uneventful. "She's more outspoken than most." I remember that. And she seemed to be getting annoyed with Megyn Kelly for constantly interrupting her mid-sentence and putting her on hold. A few minutes I wish I could have back.

fr33
03-25-2013, 12:04 PM
I almost forgot. It was honestly that uneventful. "She's more outspoken than most." I remember that. And she seemed to be getting annoyed with Megyn Kelly for constantly interrupting her mid-sentence and putting her on hold. A few minutes I wish I could have back.

Thanks for watching it so we don't have to.

kcchiefs6465
03-25-2013, 12:20 PM
Thanks for watching it so we don't have to.
Lol np. I'm actually kind of glad I did. I didn't know that they have commercials calling for Christians to send money to Israel. Whatever floats their boat I suppose.

BlackTerrel
04-02-2013, 10:16 PM
No chance a radical would ever hate the US for no reason? I guess there is a chance? They really wouldn't have to be too educated to find an actual reason to hate us though. And I'm sure people in the region do not forget our interventions as quickly as the taxpayer does. I'm sure there are a few Syrians who were alive in '49.

So if there's a chance they hate us not because of our actions then the question is wrong and is in fact propaganda. So why do we love the question so much?

RickyJ
04-02-2013, 10:18 PM
I'm sure she got confused and thought they were teaching the kids about blojobs and not blowback.

Cutlerzzz
04-02-2013, 11:03 PM
I like how we're supposed to donate to Israel when their per capita income is over $30,000 a year. A rich country like that needs our aid when there are people living off few hundred dollars a year?

kcchiefs6465
04-02-2013, 11:09 PM
So if there's a chance they hate us not because of our actions then the question is wrong and is in fact propaganda. So why do we love the question so much?
Hypothetically there is a chance. I really don't understand what you are asking and would appreciate if you could rephrase it. People of the area have seen the pictures and videos of deformed Iraqi babies. They've heard the numbers of kids killed from the sanctions. Out of sight, out of mind for us, but those people live with the consequences of our foreign policy.

As I said, they would not have to be educated to find a reason to hate us.

kcchiefs6465
04-02-2013, 11:11 PM
I like how we're supposed to donate to Israel when their per capita income is over $30,000 a year. A rich country like that needs our aid when there are people living off few hundred dollars a year?
It was something like $13,000 for every man, woman, and child in Israel. (I'm sure the number has increased)

Of course, that money isn't going to the average family in Israel. It is going right back to these weapons systems manufacturers here. Corporatism and governement collusion at its finest.

Cutlerzzz
04-02-2013, 11:19 PM
According to wiki it's up to about $32,000 now, but yeah, this is just a thinly veiled attempt to strengthen Israel's military.

kcchiefs6465
04-02-2013, 11:20 PM
According to wiki it's up to about $32,000 now, but yeah, this is just a thinly veiled attempt to strengthen Israel's military.
What a damn shame. Yeah, strengthen their military by way of our military industrial complex. Corporate welfare any way you look at it.

heavenlyboy34
04-02-2013, 11:21 PM
The problem is when people discuss this sort of thing they always say "we screwed up" or "the US made a mistake" etc. What they SHOULD be saying is "the government screwed up" or "the government made a mistake" or "the government launched an illegal war".

That helps neutralize some of the jingoistic national pride people have during the discussion. People don't like to be told they screwed up, but when you frame it as the government screwing up, it becomes much easier to swallow.
Finally, I've found something I agree with you on, Collinz! :D I get extremely irritated at the Orwellian usage of "We" in popular media-and even on these forums-as if the government= The Everyman.

BlackTerrel
04-03-2013, 10:41 PM
Hypothetically there is a chance. I really don't understand what you are asking and would appreciate if you could rephrase it.

The Question was:

Why might the United States be a target for terrorism:

A. Other people just don't like Americans
B. Decisions we made in the United States have had negative effects on people elsewhere
C. Terrorists hate everyone

If there's hypothetically a chance than the answer should be all of the above. And let's be real here for a second: this is a part of the world where people are sentenced to death for converting to Christianity and segments of the population riot because of cartoons. To say that the only reason anyone would hate us is because of foreign policy is naive. It may or may not be the majority reason - but it's definitely not the only reason. The question is clearly wrong.


People of the area have seen the pictures and videos of deformed Iraqi babies. They've heard the numbers of kids killed from the sanctions. Out of sight, out of mind for us, but those people live with the consequences of our foreign policy.

As I said, they would not have to be educated to find a reason to hate us.

Ok. Then why do we hate them so much?

You told me on another thread that you personally know multiple people who want to eradicate entire villages and burn babies for the sole reason of the people living their being Muslim.

Why are Americans so dense and irrational in our hatred and the Muslim world so rational in theirs? Are they smarter than us? More educated? Better access to information? Why are they so rational and we are so irrational?

kcchiefs6465
04-03-2013, 11:29 PM
The Question was:
Why might the United States be a target for terrorism:

A. Other people just don't like Americans
B. Decisions we made in the United States have had negative effects on people elsewhere
C. Terrorists hate everyone

A. Why don't they like Americans? (not hard for me to find a reason, no matter which country you point me to. and I'd imagine those born there are quicker than I)
B. Obviously.
C. I doubt it.



If there's hypothetically a chance than the answer should be all of the above. And let's be real here for a second: this is a part of the world where people are sentenced to death for converting to Christianity and segments of the population riot because of cartoons. To say that the only reason anyone would hate us is because of foreign policy is naive. It may or may not be the majority reason - but it's definitely not the only reason. The question is clearly wrong.

Hypothetically there is the chance that an ignorant person, unable to find a book, or unable to hear anecdotes from their elders, hates us simply because of 'freedom.' Sentenced to death for Christianity has nothing to do with me, though it may have something to do with you. It's a tragedy. From what I understand, the various churches take in a penny or two. Maybe they should send members for more than converts? I am not trying to be blasphemous but let's be real, you head to 'hell' willingly, what do you really expect to happen? That is naive. Though I do understand religions preach as much.

My whole thing has to do with a lobby that seems to have a lot of control. When I try to reconcile why they have so much control I come back to the lowest common denominator that there are a lot of Christians who support Israel because they heard their preacher say it once or twice or because they read it in the bible one or twice. They have no real concept of the modern day Israel and the war crimes committed.




Ok. Then why do we hate them so much?

War propaganda and sometimes, certain Books.



You told me on another thread that you personally know multiple people who want to eradicate entire villages and burn babies for the sole reason of the people living their being Muslim.
Don't exaggerate my words to make your point. I said there are christians who feel it to be taught that the Muslim religion ought to be done away with through force. Or that they weren't God's chosen people and deserve any wrong that is given their way. As they justified it, it's all god's will. (please take note of the capitilized compared to lowercased)



Why are Americans so dense and irrational in our hatred and the Muslim world so rational in theirs? Are they smarter than us? More educated? Better access to information? Why are they so rational and we are so irrational?
You are intentionally obtuse and your religion blinds any sort of objectivism you may have had. Of course they aren't smarter or more educated; They've seen more one eyed, 2 pound tumored, cancerous babies than most. They heard about the over 500,000 children who starved from sanctions in Iraq. They are probably far less educated but compared to our foreign policy with the average American, I'd bet they don't forget what we sleep through.

BlackTerrel
04-04-2013, 08:19 PM
Hypothetically there is the chance that an ignorant person, unable to find a book, or unable to hear anecdotes from their elders, hates us simply because of 'freedom.' Sentenced to death for Christianity has nothing to do with me, though it may have something to do with you. It's a tragedy. From what I understand, the various churches take in a penny or two. Maybe they should send members for more than converts? I am not trying to be blasphemous but let's be real, you head to 'hell' willingly, what do you really expect to happen? That is naive. Though I do understand religions preach as much.

I don't follow? Who is going to hell willingly? Converts?


War propaganda and sometimes, certain Books.

So we hate them just because of propaganda and books. They have no propaganda or books on their side? Nothing that would make them hate us for illogical reasons? They are armed only with facts and justifiable hatred.


Don't exaggerate my words to make your point. I said there are christians who feel it to be taught that the Muslim religion ought to be done away with through force. Or that they weren't God's chosen people and deserve any wrong that is given their way. As they justified it, it's all god's will. (please take note of the capitilized compared to lowercased)

You told me that you personally know multiple Christians who want to rid the world of Muslims and are OK with bombing villages and burning babies solely because the babies are Muslim. I don't know any such people but those Christians strike me as fully evil, ignorant and illogical people.

That being the case - doesn't it stand to reason that there are Muslims who are just as evil and intolerant as the Christians you know?

Unless you think Christians have a monopoly on religious fanaticism.

kcchiefs6465
04-04-2013, 08:51 PM
I don't follow? Who is going to hell willingly? Converts?

After reading a few other sensationalist and simplistic misinterpretations of what I said in other threads I am growing tired of responding. Mainly, of repeating myself. 'Hell' has the quotes around it to show that I wasn't referring to a fiery place where satan dwells. I was referring to Christians who head to very dangerous hostile places around the world (hell) and try to convert people to their religion. Sure, that may be noble to you, but to me, I find it irresponsible and mainly stupid. What do they expect to happen?



So we hate them just because of propaganda and books. They have no propaganda or books on their side? Nothing that would make them hate us for illogical reasons? They are armed only with facts and justifiable hatred.
Yes, sure, whatever. The point of it being, that they have legitimate reasons to hate us. Whether they are just radical Islamists doesn't really matter. If they wanted to, they could find an actual reason.



You told me that you personally know multiple Christians who want to rid the world of Muslims and are OK with bombing villages and burning babies solely because the babies are Muslim. I don't know any such people but those Christians strike me as fully evil, ignorant and illogical people.
Maybe so.



That being the case - doesn't it stand to reason that there are Muslims who are just as evil and intolerant as the Christians you know?

Unless you think Christians have a monopoly on religious fanaticism.
Sigh. Fuck religion. IDGAF. All believe a bunch of stupid shit and squabble over petty unproveable bullshit. There, I said it. Read doctored and mistranslated State sponsored nonsense, I really don't care. You wish to steal my money for spreading of said bullshit, we are going to be at odds. And that goes for Muslims, Christians, Jews, IDGAF. You can be obtuse and act like you do not understand my position or sensationalize or misrepresent my position though I have stated it in layman terms over and over again, that's fine. I am losing patience. Let me spell it out one more 'gain.

People in the Middle East, whether they be Muslims or whatever, have legitimate reasons to hate us. Sure, some may be down synodromed and ignorant of any and all history there and they may hate us simply because we are [prosperous]. Some may be radical because we supplied them with books teaching them as such. Some may be both. Some may be neither. Either damn way, they aren't taking my money to fight illegal and endless wars, and they have very legitimate grievances against us, should they feel so inclined to learn the history of their region. What part of that is so Goddamned hard to understand? Your religious beliefs clearly cloud reasonable judgement. It's too damn obvious. I try my best not to be rude and respect everyone's thoughts in this day and age of political correctness but there comes a point and time where enough is enough. Many of your fellow Christians had better pray there is not a God. Muslims too. Fucking most the world better pray there is not a God. I wouldn't be surprised if flood waters rose and a new experiment was tried out. Lord knows this one failed, or will fail, soon enough.

Yieu
04-04-2013, 09:14 PM
The problem is when people discuss this sort of thing they always say "we screwed up" or "the US made a mistake" etc. What they SHOULD be saying is "the government screwed up" or "the government made a mistake" or "the government launched an illegal war".

That helps neutralize some of the jingoistic national pride people have during the discussion. People don't like to be told they screwed up, but when you frame it as the government screwing up, it becomes much easier to swallow.

Good idea -- maybe Rand ought to try this angle in his pitch to end the wars? I think it would really help his popularity with the masses.

BlackTerrel
04-04-2013, 09:19 PM
After reading a few other sensationalist and simplistic misinterpretations of what I said in other threads I am growing tired of responding. Mainly, of repeating myself. 'Hell' has the quotes around it to show that I wasn't referring to a fiery place where satan dwells. I was referring to Christians who head to very dangerous hostile places around the world (hell) and try to convert people to their religion. Sure, that may be noble to you, but to me, I find it irresponsible and mainly stupid. What do they expect to happen?

Or you could simply be someone living in one of these countries and decide to convert to Christianity and sentenced to death. It happens.

Regardless that is missing the point. Surely in countries where people are sentenced to death for converting to Christianity and people riot over youtube videos and cartoons there is at least a portion of the population that is irrational.


Yes, sure, whatever. The point of it being, that they have legitimate reasons to hate us. Whether they are just radical Islamists doesn't really matter. If they wanted to, they could find an actual reason.

If they wanted to. But no matter what some of them would hate us regardless? Right? Rand Paul said the same thing. That means the test question is wrong.

No one can so definitively state the motivation for all terrorists or terrorist supporters who have ever lived. So why 10 pages bashing this Texas mom?


People in the Middle East, whether they be Muslims or whatever, have legitimate reasons to hate us. Sure, some may be down synodromed and ignorant of any and all history there and they may hate us simply because we are [prosperous]. Some may be radical because we supplied them with books teaching them as such. Some may be both. Some may be neither.

So they have many reasons to hate us. Some justified. Some not. So the question is wrong. Where are we disagreeing?


Either damn way, they aren't taking my money to fight illegal and endless wars, and they have very legitimate grievances against us, should they feel so inclined to learn the history of their region. What part of that is so Goddamned hard to understand? Your religious beliefs clearly cloud reasonable judgement.

I'm not even sure where we're disagreeing at this point. I oppose foreign US intervention. So do you. I believe some people have legitimate reasons to hate us and some hate us for invalid reasons. So do you. Pretty sure we agree.

The test question disagrees with both of us. That is my point.