1,455,590

[Anti Federalist]

1,455,590

Posted by Laurence Vance on March 19, 2013 04:02 PM

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/134148.html

That is the latest figure on the number of Iraqis killed as a result of the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq, which began ten years ago today. Do Americans even care? Do they even care about the almost 5,000 dead U.S. soldiers?

[Anti Federalist]

http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/deathcount/explanation

[Origanalist]

Chirp.....

[heavenlyboy34]

Boobus is too busy watching TV to care, sorry. :(

[bolil]

What? War in Iraq? Is that a new show on HBO? I love game of Thrones, I root for the good guy!

[heavenlyboy34]

Well, at least the bankers, cronies, and politicians will do well in this war business. :mad:

[Origanalist]

Well, at least the bankers, cronies, and politicians will do well in this war business. :mad:

They always do.

[paulbot24]

I'm curious about your opinion on this AF (and others too). I've observed this and I am curious what you think. I have seen several people come back from the armed forces, a few of them....you might say, well, are not quite the same person as when they left. They return to a family/parents that offer very little help, especially if there is any kind of PTSD, complicated disabilities, or something they don't quite understand. They act a little ashamed of the situation and don't really want to talk about it, just hoping they can "sort whatever it is out." I have also seen similar types of families/situations reaction when their son or daughter was killed in combat. After the initial shock, their parents/family get a little triangle flag and some medals (which they show off to everybody), which means now their son/daughter is a "war hero who died protecting our freedoms." They seem nauseatingly excited. I know that everybody reacts different. Why does it seem like it is always noble and heroic if their child died in combat, but if they come back with physical or mental "issues" they are now a drain and possibly hopeless? War is hell.

[Mani]

http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/deathcount/explanation


So a normal population is about 20-30% children. Let's just make it 10% to make it super conservative. So at least 145K children were killed. How many kids were killed in SandyHook? 25? That's like 5,823 sandyhook massacres over a decade. or 582/year. Or 1.5 Sandyhook massacres EVERY DAY over the last 10 years.



Oh wait, those are brown kids....FUCK THEM...KILL THEM....Jesus loves you...



They hate us for our freedom....Yup..that's it....We are the Good Guys...It's a noble and Just war...

[Anti Federalist]

I'm curious about your opinion on this AF. I've observed this and I am curious what you think. I have seen several people come back from the armed forces, a few of them....you might say, well, are not quite the same person as when they left. They return to a family/parents that offer very little help, especially if there is any kind of PTSD, complicated disabilities, or something they don't quite understand. They act a little ashamed of the situation and don't really want to talk about it, just hoping they can "sort whatever it is out." I have also seen similar types of families/situations reaction when their son or daughter was killed in combat. After the initial shock, their parents/family get a little triangle flag and some medals (which they show off to everybody), which means now their son/daughter is a "war hero who died protected our freedoms." They seem nauseatingly excited. I know that everybody reacts different. Why does it seem like it always noble and heroic if their child died in combat, but if they come back with physical or mental "issues" they are now a drain and possibly hopeless? War is hell.

Wow, good question.

Honestly, I never looked at it from that perspective.

I appreciate that you asked that, let me mull on it a bit.

[QuickZ06]

Some do, most don't.

[Cleaner44]

Lindsey Graham says that it is fine... these things happen in war you know.

[Giuliani was there on 911]

bro the number is a lot closer to 50k Iraqis killed. And plus that's a small price to pay for freedom :rolleyes:

[J_White]

i was thinking about this - how many of these "other" (yellow, brown, black, Red indian...whatever) people has the US govt killed ?
how long before it reaches the Nazi total ?
i was thinking of making a graphic - Nazi regime on one side with a bar showing how many different types they killed - Jews, gypsies, cripples, etc
and US on the other side - how many krauts, gooks, koreans, and brown people !!
where can i find that info ?

[kcchiefs6465]

i was thinking about this - how many of these "other" (yellow, brown, black, Red indian...whatever) people has the US govt killed ?
how long before it reaches the Nazi total ?
i was thinking of making a graphic - Nazi regime on one side with a bar showing how many different types they killed - Jews, gypsies, cripples, etc
and US on the other side - how many krauts, gooks, koreans, and brown people !!
where can i find that info ?
Good idea.

[ClydeCoulter]

Try finding the real numbers, J_White, that will be hard to do form WWII camps.

[ClydeCoulter]

There was one guy, whose great grandfather planted an orchard. It was destroyed, his house and the orchard.

[heavenlyboy34]

oops, n/m

[dannno]

I have also seen similar types of families/situations reaction when their son or daughter was killed in combat. After the initial shock, their parents/family get a little triangle flag and some medals (which they show off to everybody), which means now their son/daughter is a "war hero who died protecting our freedoms." They seem nauseatingly excited. I know that everybody reacts different. Why does it seem like it is always noble and heroic if their child died in combat, but if they come back with physical or mental "issues" they are now a drain and possibly hopeless? War is hell.


Wow, good question.

Honestly, I never looked at it from that perspective.

I appreciate that you asked that, let me mull on it a bit.

I suppose it's a really good excuse to tell people on your Carnival Cruise why you don't have grandkids.

[AlexAmore]

You've all seen it a million times and million and one is still just as goooooood

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDw-zFFhFgc

[acptulsa]

I'm curious about your opinion on this AF (and others too). I've observed this and I am curious what you think. I have seen several people come back from the armed forces, a few of them....you might say, well, are not quite the same person as when they left. They return to a family/parents that offer very little help, especially if there is any kind of PTSD, complicated disabilities, or something they don't quite understand. They act a little ashamed of the situation and don't really want to talk about it, just hoping they can "sort whatever it is out." I have also seen similar types of families/situations reaction when their son or daughter was killed in combat. After the initial shock, their parents/family get a little triangle flag and some medals (which they show off to everybody), which means now their son/daughter is a "war hero who died protecting our freedoms." They seem nauseatingly excited. I know that everybody reacts different. Why does it seem like it is always noble and heroic if their child died in combat, but if they come back with physical or mental "issues" they are now a drain and possibly hopeless? War is hell.

Well, whether you kids goes to war a kid and comes back a zombie, or goes to war a kid and comes back in a box, you lose the kid. But at least the box doesn't go off when you brag about what a hero it is and how it was all about our freedoms, and tell you to shut the hell up.

[JK/SEA]

yeah, i fucking care. Thats why i ate the red pill and joined the R3volution. War is obscene, especially the way its been performed since after WWII.

[phill4paul]

1,455,590? That many killed during shock and awe? Because after the first couple of days of news coverage it just kind of died out. In fact, I am quite sure, we won that war in about 4 weeks and came home victors. Hard to think that many were killed in such a short time. Oh, well, glad all our boys are home safe now after kicking some serious rag-head ass! Wooohoooo!

[Natural Citizen]

You've all seen it a million times and million and one is still just as goooooood

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDw-zFFhFgc


Man, there's a Carlin skit for every topic in the world. I know that technically it's not funny what he's talking about but I laugh every time.

[jmdrake]

I think this is part of the human psyche. It's easier to mourn someone who dies once than to deal with someone you see dying before you.


I'm curious about your opinion on this AF (and others too). I've observed this and I am curious what you think. I have seen several people come back from the armed forces, a few of them....you might say, well, are not quite the same person as when they left. They return to a family/parents that offer very little help, especially if there is any kind of PTSD, complicated disabilities, or something they don't quite understand. They act a little ashamed of the situation and don't really want to talk about it, just hoping they can "sort whatever it is out." I have also seen similar types of families/situations reaction when their son or daughter was killed in combat. After the initial shock, their parents/family get a little triangle flag and some medals (which they show off to everybody), which means now their son/daughter is a "war hero who died protecting our freedoms." They seem nauseatingly excited. I know that everybody reacts different. Why does it seem like it is always noble and heroic if their child died in combat, but if they come back with physical or mental "issues" they are now a drain and possibly hopeless? War is hell.

[mport1]

It's quite disgusting. Almost no Americans know or care about that figure. They only care about the number of people from the U.S. because they see them as more valuable than Iraqis.

[belian78]

I think this is part of the human psyche. It's easier to mourn someone who dies once than to deal with someone you see dying before you.
I'd have to agree with this. I only know 3 guys that were deployed and every one of em have been fundamentally changed. My half sister's brother was/is a Marine, even trained other Marines in ju-jitsu while active, he was 100% USMC all the way. Nowadays he won't even leave his house most times, won't even look at a firearm even though his family have all been gun owners up and down his family tree. He is literally a dried up husk of what he once was.

The other two guys aren't as bad but they aren't the same either, and neither will talk about over there. One of em was my ex's cousin, he was the funniest most joking person you would ever meet. Well he was a medic in the initial invasion, sniper missed him and hit the Marine he was trying to help or he wouldn't have came back. That's all I know about his deployment, but I know he's no longer the jokster, he barely goes to family functions anymore as I hear it.

Fuck the MIC and the rat bastards that benefit from it.

[ClydeCoulter]

It's quite disgusting. Almost no Americans know or care about that figure. They only care about the number of people from the U.S. because they see them as more valuable than Iraqis.

Yea, that number and the millions of Iraqis that were "displaced" (what a soft word) are not included in the cost when discussing the "was it worth it".

[Anti Federalist]

Well, whether you kids goes to war a kid and comes back a zombie, or goes to war a kid and comes back in a box, you lose the kid. But at least the box doesn't go off when you brag about what a hero it is and how it was all about our freedoms, and tell you to shut the hell up.

I'm gonna have to go with that, or variations on that theme.

[Anti Federalist]

I think this is part of the human psyche. It's easier to mourn someone who dies once than to deal with someone you see dying before you.

And that as well, which ties in to what acptulsa said.

[jay_dub]

I'm not sure it matters what the number is when you're your talking about a totally unjustified war. Whether it's 1,000 or 1,000,000, it's a stain on our collective soul that won't be easily washed away. We may have crossed the Rubicon with this one and it's all a downward spiral from here on out.

Most still don't get it, though. Witness Lindsey Graham, the fucking puke of a man. He makes me want to move to S. Carolina just so I can vote against him.

[donnay]

Absolutely disgusting! This is not the country I was raise in. I weep for the future.

"Someone has stolen my country and I want her back!!"

[heavenlyboy34]

So a normal population is about 20-30% children. Let's just make it 10% to make it super conservative. So at least 145K children were killed. How many kids were killed in SandyHook? 25? That's like 5,823 sandyhook massacres over a decade. or 582/year. Or 1.5 Sandyhook massacres EVERY DAY over the last 10 years.



Oh wait, those are brown kids....FUCK THEM...KILL THEM....Jesus loves you...



They hate us for our freedom....Yup..that's it....We are the Good Guys...It's a noble and Just war...
I always found that a really odd attitude, as Jesus (or Yeshua as he was known in his life-later Jesu in Rome as Catholicism came to be in the latin speaking world) was brown with dark hair/eyes and spoke Aramaic.

[Christian Liberty]

1,455,590

Posted by Laurence Vance on March 19, 2013 04:02 PM

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/134148.html

That is the latest figure on the number of Iraqis killed as a result of the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq, which began ten years ago today. Do Americans even care? Do they even care about the almost 5,000 dead U.S. soldiers?

I told ,my dad (Who is against the war, although not as radically as I am, he doesn't think Bush should be criminally prosecuted while I think he should be hanged) recently (Like 2 months ago) that over a million people were killed by the war in Iraq, and a check at the government's numbers revealed that, according to the government numbers, I was off by a factor of 10, it was actually something like 110,000 or so. Now, I instantly said that I didn't trust the government's numbers, but how do we know exactly how many people were killed? Do we have any proof that Vance's numbers are correct and the government's numbers are wrong?

It doesn't really matter, murder of 100,000 is still worse than anything any normal serial killer did, although not quite as many as Abraham Lincoln or FDR killed. But I'm still curious, and "A million" is indeed scary as its nearly approaching "Mass Genocide" level alongside Hitler, Stalin, exc. I'm curious because the more people I can actually PROVE that Bush murdered, the more I can seriously challenge the pro-Bush people I know...

[bunklocoempire]

I'm curious about your opinion on this AF (and others too). I've observed this and I am curious what you think. I have seen several people come back from the armed forces, a few of them....you might say, well, are not quite the same person as when they left. They return to a family/parents that offer very little help, especially if there is any kind of PTSD, complicated disabilities, or something they don't quite understand. They act a little ashamed of the situation and don't really want to talk about it, just hoping they can "sort whatever it is out." I have also seen similar types of families/situations reaction when their son or daughter was killed in combat. After the initial shock, their parents/family get a little triangle flag and some medals (which they show off to everybody), which means now their son/daughter is a "war hero who died protecting our freedoms." They seem nauseatingly excited. I know that everybody reacts different. Why does it seem like it is always noble and heroic if their child died in combat, but if they come back with physical or mental "issues" they are now a drain and possibly hopeless? War is hell.


They return to a family/parents that offer very little help... They act a little ashamed of the situation and don't really want to talk about it, just hoping they can "sort whatever it is out."

Others have touched on this and I'll offer my take.

Uncomfortable situations are indeed uncomfortable as far as the living go. The 'hero' comes home, is changed, and isn't exactly acting like a hero so now what? Deal with the situation? How? Society most always shuns mentally broken folks. :( I imagine these families are the same ones who would have a difficult time discussing really anything uncomfortable in great detail. Extremely sad.

The parents who have lost their 'hero child' to war (death) have an "easier" time on the outside because of the narrative accepted by society. It's a tragic "double-down on stupid" scenario and of course again extremely sad. Face reality or keep hiding in the "red white & blue myth"? I guess it can be a type of defense mechanism or they can actually believe it -or both.

We don't see living mentally shattered vets -and all their issues- paraded around for photo ops attached to "sacrifice". It would be too uncomfortable to show a vet withdrawing from his family, hiding in addiction, or any other number of conditions.

We do see the limbless vets and flags passed out for the dead at photo ops. Always have.

My heart goes out to the vets and families who are hoodwinked by this scam and have to live with the results. We all make mistakes.

NOT the guy you're going to see on Fox attached to "sacrifice":
http://s24.postimage.org/4bk8l2xxx/homeless_veteran1.jpg
This guy has an Arab brother who happens to live in Iraq and he's living the same "dream" too, right along with their other brothers in Afghanistan, Viet Nam, Korea, Somalia, Bosnia, Panama, etc.

[Christian Liberty]

I'm not sure it matters what the number is when you're your talking about a totally unjustified war. Whether it's 1,000 or 1,000,000, it's a stain on our collective soul that won't be easily washed away. We may have crossed the Rubicon with this one and it's all a downward spiral from here on out.

Most still don't get it, though. Witness Lindsey Graham, the fucking puke of a man. He makes me want to move to S. Carolina just so I can vote against him.

I missed this. You're right that it doesn't really matter but numbers do have power in the mind. 100,000 just seems closer to "Abe Lincoln territory' or "FDR territory." While a million, especially if you throw in Afghanistan as well, is closer to Adolf Hitler territory. For me, one is enough, but not for freaking utilitarians.


I always found that a really odd attitude, as Jesus (or Yeshua as he was known in his life-later Jesu in Rome as Catholicism came to be in the latin speaking world) was brown with dark hair/eyes and spoke Aramaic.

I think its more nationalism than racism in reality but its still amazing. I mean, who would Jesus declare war against? You could make the case that the answer is "Nobody." At the very least, Jesus, who said "Blessed are the peacemakers" would not go to war when it was avoidable. Personally I don't see anything wrong with self-defense but I think the hardcore pacifist position is more tenable than the alternative extreme.

[ZENemy]

Our apathy kills people - Immortal Tech