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itshappening
03-19-2013, 09:28 AM
Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., is expected to address immigration today when he speaks to the U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce. According to prepared remarks obtained by multiple news outlets, Paul will say, “Defense of the unborn and defense of traditional marriage are Republican issues that should resonate with Latinos but have been obscured by the misperception that Republicans are hostile to immigrants.”

Unfortunately, that is just completely false. Latinos are not supporters of traditional marriage or the lives of the unborn. According to the 2012 exit polls, 59 percent of Latinos say their state should legally recognize same-sex marriage, and 66 percent said abortion should be legal. Latinos also overwhelmingly support Obamacare, higher taxes, more spending, and they don’t believe in the Second Amendment either. Other than that, they are great conservatives.

Paul is on firmer ground when he says, “Let’s start that conversation by acknowledging we aren’t going to deport” the millions already here. That is a great place to start. Republicans can not expect to make ground among any immigrant communities if they are threatening to deport anyone. But that does not mean those who came to this country illegally should be given citizenship. As Boston College Political Science Professor Peter Skerry has argued, it would be much easier, and fairer, to simply grant those found in the United States, that are not criminals or threats to national security, permanent residency. Then nobody would have to go through the farce of forcing poor immigrants to pay fines and back taxes.

Paul explicitly never endorses a path to citizenship. Instead he writes, “If you wish to work, if you wish to live and work in America, then we will find a place for you.” That is an improvement over the GOP’s current message.

UPDATE: An earlier version of this post, relying on the Associated Press and BuzzFeed, reported that Paul endorsed a path to citizenship. We have no obtained an advance copy of the speech and those reports are 100 percent false.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/morning-examiner-rand-paul-embraces-amnesty/article/2524772

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In 1988 70% of Hispanics voted against George HW Bush and for Michael Dukakis, that's how grateful they were for the '86 amnesty.

Bottom line: Getting their votes is a fallacy for the GOP.

AuH20
03-19-2013, 09:32 AM
Unfortunately, that is just completely false. Latinos are not supporters of traditional marriage or the lives of the unborn. According to the 2012 exit polls, 59 percent of Latinos say their state should legally recognize same-sex marriage, and 66 percent said abortion should be legal. Latinos also overwhelmingly support Obamacare, higher taxes, more spending, and they don’t believe in the Second Amendment either. Other than that, they are great conservatives.

Please stop making me more and more depressed today. :) It's the equivalent to watching a massive car crash unfold right before your very eyes. A casual observer would be led to believe that nearly all Hispanics were these uber catholics, but they conveniently wear their religion on their sleeve like America's jewish population. JINO.

jkr
03-19-2013, 09:57 AM
if they dont want to be Americans then, yes, it is time for them to leave.
NO MORE MARXISTS!

we dont need anymore head bobbing yes men to vote "democrat", steal money from working families, and kill unborn children

we have a surplus of those

AuH20
03-19-2013, 09:59 AM
if they dont want to be Americans then, yes, it is time for them to leave.
NO MORE MARXISTS!

we dont need anymore head bobbing yes men to vote "democrat", steal money from working families, and kill unborn children

we have a surplus of those

But we need a more DIVERSE group of ardent statists!!! They just can't be white and black. Diversify my friend!! Look to the future (sarc).

itshappening
03-19-2013, 10:03 AM
Look at all the left-wing dictators in South America.

The Democrats know they're on to a winner with making them American citizens and bussing them to the polls.

These people vote for socialists and tyrants all over the place. They're extremely gullible. Converting them to conservatives is a pipe dream.

AuH20
03-19-2013, 10:12 AM
Look at all the left-wing dictators in South America.

The Democrats know they're on to a winner with making them American citizens and bussing them to the polls.

These people vote for socialists and tyrants all over the place. They're extremely gullible. Converting them to conservatives is a pipe dream.

It's not only that. When your belly is empty, you're not operating with all your faculties. That's the vulnerability that tyrants prey on. Immediate needs.

Secondly, we 're talking about many uneducated people. You can't expect them to acknowledge the calculated schemes of these power mad men and contrast it from a learned historical perspective. It's not happening. Tragically, these are relatively good people being used as a battering ram on the last vestiges of the Republic. They simply don't know any better when the tyrants are offering them a seemingly better life in the short-term.

itshappening
03-19-2013, 10:14 AM
Good points AuH.

These people are 'takers' and they have the numbers due to over-breeding, thus democracy fails. They just vote to steal what they can.

AuH20
03-19-2013, 10:17 AM
Good points AuH.

These people are 'takers' and they have the numbers due to over-breeding, thus democracy fails. They just vote to steal what they can.

But they don't view it as stealing, especially when they are 4 to 5 degrees removed from the actual confiscation process. Rather, it's something as basic as survival.

seapilot
03-19-2013, 11:52 AM
The socialists know they can get voters by keeping them poor and giving them handouts. This goes across all race barriers and stereotypes. Dependents on the state always vote for the state or the hand that feeds them. Unfortunately a large percentage of latinos fall into this trap.

There are latinos that are for liberty, but like the rest of us they are the minority in a particular group. Most of the educated latinos that I have known were conservative or liberty leaning.

AuH20
03-19-2013, 11:53 AM
The socialists know they can get voters by keeping them poor and giving them handouts. This goes across all race barriers and stereotypes. Dependents on the state always vote for the state or the hand that feeds them. Unfortunately a large percentage of latinos fall into this trap.

There are latinos that are for liberty, but like the rest of us they are the minority in a particular group. Most of the educated latinos that I have known were conservative or liberty leaning.

Bingo!!! If you are armed with knowledge and can read between the lines....

abacabb
03-19-2013, 11:54 AM
"As Boston College Political Science Professor Peter Skerry has argued, it would be much easier, and fairer, to simply grant those found in the United States, that are not criminals or threats to national security, permanent residency."

Makes too much sense...

abacabb
03-19-2013, 11:56 AM
Look at all the left-wing dictators in South America.

The Democrats know they're on to a winner with making them American citizens and bussing them to the polls.

These people vote for socialists and tyrants all over the place. They're extremely gullible. Converting them to conservatives is a pipe dream.
They're as gullible as the natural born Americans in this country.

Fivezeroes
03-19-2013, 11:56 AM
They're as gullible as the natural born Americans in this country.


Not all natural born Americans are this gullible.

abacabb
03-19-2013, 12:00 PM
Not all natural born Americans are this gullible.
In my honest opinion, we should return back to the days when only property owners can vote. Forget about race. A society where everyone by virtue of their humanity can vote is simply mob rule. The founders called it "Mobocracy." Athens lost the Pelopenessian War because of the Sicilian Expedition, which was forced upon the people because of mob rule.

Tyranny of the majority is the danger we live under. Not tyranny of a brown majority, but the tyranny of the uneducated who wouldn't even know what century the Constitution was made.

Fivezeroes
03-19-2013, 12:05 PM
In my honest opinion, we should return back to the days when only property owners can vote. Forget about race. A society where everyone by virtue of their humanity can vote is simply mob rule. The founders called it "Mobocracy." Athens lost the Pelopenessian War because of the Sicilian Expedition, which was forced upon the people because of mob rule.

Tyranny of the majority is the danger we live under. Not tyranny of a brown majority, but the tyranny of the uneducated who wouldn't even know what century the Constitution was made.


I'm all for that, at least that way you wouldn't have people stealing elections anymore.

AuH20
03-19-2013, 12:06 PM
Not all natural born Americans are this gullible.

In a generation, we'll be where our southern counterparts are. Ignorance is worn as a badge of honor these days.

Christian Liberty
03-19-2013, 12:10 PM
If only property owners could vote, they would just steal from those who are arbitrarily determined to not have enough property to be able to vote. It sounds good, but I don't think it really is.

Brett85
03-19-2013, 12:10 PM
George W. Bush still managed to get 45% of the Hispanic vote somehow.

Fivezeroes
03-19-2013, 12:10 PM
In a generation, we'll be where our southern counterparts are. Ignorance is worn as a badge of honor these days.

Sadly, what you preach is truth.

Brett85
03-19-2013, 12:12 PM
Rand could probably get more Hispanic voters to vote for him in a general election if he ran on a platform of legalizing marijuana. Most of the Hispanics where I live are at least big fans of alcohol. I imagine they wouldn't mind marijuana being legal either.

AuH20
03-19-2013, 12:15 PM
Rand could probably get more Hispanic voters to vote for him in a general election if he ran on a platform of legalizing marijuana. Most of the Hispanics where I live are at least big fans of alcohol. I imagine they wouldn't mind marijuana being legal either.

Rand Paul needs a campaign outreach liquor truck with a hydraulic drop bar!! How cool would that be??

Maybe even a cross-promotional tour with Tecate??

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn9/tuba_line/chicas_1024x768_tecate.jpg

Brett85
03-19-2013, 12:38 PM
Even if it's true that Hispanics are just a bunch of free loaders who love welfare and vote for Democrats, that just isn't something the Republican Party can say if they want to win a single future election. The GOP will be DOA if they listen to people like Ann Coulter and use the kind of rhetoric that she uses. Mitt Romney found out that you can't get people to vote for you by insulting them.

abacabb
03-19-2013, 12:44 PM
I'm all for that, at least that way you wouldn't have people stealing elections anymore.
Yes, the ones who vote will actually pay attention.

eating_nachos
03-19-2013, 12:46 PM
Even if it's true that Hispanics are just a bunch of free loaders who love welfare and vote for Democrats, that just isn't something the Republican Party can say if they want to win a single future election. The GOP will be DOA if they listen to people like Ann Coulter and use the kind of rhetoric that she uses. Mitt Romney found out that you can't get people to vote for you by insulting them.

Mitt Romney lost the Hispanic vote because they didn't like his economic policies.

It had nothing to do with his position on illegal immigration.

abacabb
03-19-2013, 12:48 PM
If only property owners could vote, they would just steal from those who are arbitrarily determined to not have enough property to be able to vote. It sounds good, but I don't think it really is.
Being that a solid 30-50% of the voting age public of this country own property, it would cut out a lot of people that don't contribute to society and thereby really don't deserve a say. However, it wouldn't be like only Donald Trump and Mitt Romney can vote. It would be a lot of people.

We should also have literacy tests in English that require some basic understandings of governance. The fact we even debate about drones and universal health care shows that the voting public clearly does not understand the Constitution, checks and balances and etcetera. We're suffering from mob rule.

Brett85
03-19-2013, 12:52 PM
Mitt Romney lost the Hispanic vote because they didn't like his economic policies.

It had nothing to do with his position on illegal immigration.

George W. Bush won 45% of the Hispanic vote. Obviously he wasn't a small government conservative, but he wasn't really any worse than Romney. Kerry campaigned on a platform of having a much bigger government than even Bush wanted, but yet 45% of them voted for Bush. That might not have been entirely due to immigration, but I'm just saying that it's possible for the Republican Party to get a larger percentage of the Hispanic vote than they're getting now, even though it probably won't ever be a majority of Hispanics.

Fivezeroes
03-19-2013, 12:56 PM
Being that a solid 30-50% of the voting age public of this country own property, it would cut out a lot of people that don't contribute to society and thereby really don't deserve a say. However, it wouldn't be like only Donald Trump and Mitt Romney can vote. It would be a lot of people.

We should also have literacy tests in English that require some basic understandings of governance. The fact we even debate about drones and universal health care shows that the voting public clearly does not understand the Constitution, checks and balances and etcetera. We're suffering from mob rule.


I like the property owner idea... yea, it takes away the people who don't own property their right to vote, but damn some of these people don't understand voting to begin with. But, then again, Obama or someone like him would buy people homes just so they could vote.

NCGOPer_for_Paul
03-19-2013, 01:05 PM
George W. Bush won 45% of the Hispanic vote. Obviously he wasn't a small government conservative, but he wasn't really any worse than Romney. Kerry campaigned on a platform of having a much bigger government than even Bush wanted, but yet 45% of them voted for Bush. That might not have been entirely due to immigration, but I'm just saying that it's possible for the Republican Party to get a larger percentage of the Hispanic vote than they're getting now, even though it probably won't ever be a majority of Hispanics.

W was from Texas, attempted to speak Spanish, and preached "compassionate conservatism".

Algore was a moron and John Kerry came off as a northeastern liberal elitist snob.

As funny as it sounds, many Hispanics saw Bush as closer to them than Gore and Kerry.

eating_nachos
03-19-2013, 01:14 PM
George W. Bush won 45% of the Hispanic vote. Obviously he wasn't a small government conservative, but he wasn't really any worse than Romney. Kerry campaigned on a platform of having a much bigger government than even Bush wanted, but yet 45% of them voted for Bush. That might not have been entirely due to immigration, but I'm just saying that it's possible for the Republican Party to get a larger percentage of the Hispanic vote than they're getting now, even though it probably won't ever be a majority of Hispanics.


Bush was an anomaly, check out the chart in this article.

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/11/07/latino-voters-in-the-2012-election/

itshappening
03-19-2013, 01:20 PM
Bush won 40% not 45%, so they still voted 2-1 for the Democrat

Christian Liberty
03-19-2013, 01:24 PM
Even if it's true that Hispanics are just a bunch of free loaders who love welfare and vote for Democrats, that just isn't something the Republican Party can say if they want to win a single future election. The GOP will be DOA if they listen to people like Ann Coulter and use the kind of rhetoric that she uses. Mitt Romney found out that you can't get people to vote for you by insulting them.

I don't think you can justifiably say it either. Not all Hispanics are lazy. And some people do immigrate here in order to work hard. I'm not sure what the percentages are, grant you, but it only takes 1 exception to make "The Hispanics" a false statement.

George W. Bush won 45% of the Hispanic vote. Obviously he wasn't a small government conservative, but he wasn't really any worse than Romney. Kerry campaigned on a platform of having a much bigger government than even Bush wanted, but yet 45% of them voted for Bush. That might not have been entirely due to immigration, but I'm just saying that it's possible for the Republican Party to get a larger percentage of the Hispanic vote than they're getting now, even though it probably won't ever be a majority of Hispanics.


I like the property owner idea... yea, it takes away the people who don't own property their right to vote, but damn some of these people don't understand voting to begin with. But, then again, Obama or someone like him would buy people homes just so they could vote.


In a generation, we'll be where our southern counterparts are. Ignorance is worn as a badge of honor these days.

juleswin
03-19-2013, 01:35 PM
If only property owners could vote, they would just steal from those who are arbitrarily determined to not have enough property to be able to vote. It sounds good, but I don't think it really is.

How about only tax payers vote? And whatever policy they vote in would apply to all Americans not just the voters. If they decide to give em selves a tax credit, everyone gets one and they decide to plunge the country into war, their children and their resources will be used to fight it.


Make it so only people with skin in the game vote. That is the best way to fix this country

Christian Liberty
03-19-2013, 01:36 PM
Even if it's true that Hispanics are just a bunch of free loaders who love welfare and vote for Democrats, that just isn't something the Republican Party can say if they want to win a single future election. The GOP will be DOA if they listen to people like Ann Coulter and use the kind of rhetoric that she uses. Mitt Romney found out that you can't get people to vote for you by insulting them.


George W. Bush won 45% of the Hispanic vote. Obviously he wasn't a small government conservative, but he wasn't really any worse than Romney. Kerry campaigned on a platform of having a much bigger government than even Bush wanted, but yet 45% of them voted for Bush. That might not have been entirely due to immigration, but I'm just saying that it's possible for the Republican Party to get a larger percentage of the Hispanic vote than they're getting now, even though it probably won't ever be a majority of Hispanics.


I like the property owner idea... yea, it takes away the people who don't own property their right to vote, but damn some of these people don't understand voting to begin with. But, then again, Obama or someone like him would buy people homes just so they could vote.


How about only tax payers vote? And whatever policy they vote in would apply to all Americans not just the voters. If they decide to give em selves a tax credit, everyone gets one and they decide to plunge the country into war, their children and their resources will be used to fight it.


Make it so only people with skin in the game vote. That is the best way to fix this country

That sounds better and less arbitrary. And I'm all for making congressmen and their children go overseas first in case of war.

eating_nachos
03-19-2013, 01:36 PM
Bush won 40% not 45%, so they still voted 2-1 for the Democrat

http://www.pewhispanic.org/files/2012/11/hispanic-2012-11-07-latino-vote-00-01.png

Christian Liberty
03-19-2013, 01:38 PM
Oh, wow. 40% voted for George freaking Bush. Wonderful. I'd honestly have probably rather voted for Kerry anyways. I hate them both but war is the health of the state and the most important issue. Granted, anyone smart would have voted for Michael Badnarik in 2004, not Bush OR Kerry.

Fivezeroes
03-19-2013, 01:39 PM
How about only tax payers vote? And whatever policy they vote in would apply to all Americans not just the voters. If they decide to give em selves a tax credit, everyone gets one and they decide to plunge the country into war, their children and their resources will be used to fight it.


Make it so only people with skin in the game vote. That is the best way to fix this country


How do they tell who does and doesn't pay taxes? That's the problem with any of these suggestions, while they're great ideas... there's just no way to accurately tell.

itshappening
03-19-2013, 01:46 PM
http://www.pewhispanic.org/files/2012/11/hispanic-2012-11-07-latino-vote-00-01.png

You see, I knew I had a good memory.

Here's another fun one for you to look up eating: Check out the % of the Muslim vote Bush won and now look at who they're voting for after the insane neocons alienated them. That's a huge voting block which has completely flipped and Muslims are well educated natural conservatives.

Christian Liberty
03-19-2013, 01:47 PM
How do they tell who does and doesn't pay taxes? That's the problem with any of these suggestions, while they're great ideas... there's just no way to accurately tell.

It would also, come to think of it, encourage an expansion of the tax base. Which isn't good. The more people who can legally not fork over any money to the government, the better. Starve the system.

supermario21
03-19-2013, 01:49 PM
Keep in mind, with our share of the white vote going up drastically, all it would take to win in all likelihood would be getting Reagan/W numbers.

abacabb
03-19-2013, 01:50 PM
How about only tax payers vote? And whatever policy they vote in would apply to all Americans not just the voters. If they decide to give em selves a tax credit, everyone gets one and they decide to plunge the country into war, their children and their resources will be used to fight it.


Make it so only people with skin in the game vote. That is the best way to fix this country

Yes, an only "tax payers" vote amendment is the modern way to go. It would disfranchise lazy college students, kids and retired people, who would have benefited from decades of voting.

Also, people have to pay in more taxes then they get back.

abacabb
03-19-2013, 01:52 PM
How do they tell who does and doesn't pay taxes? That's the problem with any of these suggestions, while they're great ideas... there's just no way to accurately tell.
You walk around with a 1090 and a W2.

Fivezeroes
03-19-2013, 01:54 PM
You walk around with a 1090 and a W2.


Then you have your self-employed that you have 1099's for. People that come out to vote, aren't going to carry those around on them.

abacabb
03-19-2013, 01:59 PM
Then you have your self-employed that you have 1099's for. People that come out to vote, aren't going to carry those around on them.
I'm self-rmployed and I have a W2.


The bigger problem is that the voting system here would require and income tax. A literacy test and property owner requirement would be more than sufficient.

Dary
03-19-2013, 02:00 PM
Is there even such a thing as a property owner anymore?

Shit, we don't even own our own bodies. You can't own property without self ownership. Slaves are not allowed property.

juleswin
03-19-2013, 02:01 PM
Then you have your self-employed that you have 1099's for. People that come out to vote, aren't going to carry those around on them.

Why? u tell everybody them are the rules but I seriously doubt it will ever happen. The wound is way to deep to repair, just look at what is happening in Arizona. Activists are fighting a requirement to show proof of citizenship before u can vote and that is being fought tooth and nail by liberals. And the majority that do receive more money than they pay in taxes will also fight any attempt to change the voting rules.

I think this constitutional democracy is near failure. It will take a real fight against the big govt types to rescue it and I just don't see that many people on the front line

Philhelm
03-19-2013, 06:38 PM
If only property owners could vote, wouldn't that mean that only the banks and the government would have a vote?

MelissaWV
03-19-2013, 06:41 PM
Another thread with pages of posts where Mexican = Latino.

Frankly, this makes sense, and is why I blame all pale-skinned folks for the violence in Northern Ireland.

MelissaWV
03-19-2013, 06:41 PM
You walk around with a 1090 and a W2.

btw you can get all your taxes back, and still have a W2.