Is Bitcoin Money?

[tangent4ronpaul]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-keiser/is-bitcoin-money_b_2849031.html

Since Bitcoin is now a $400 million market, with its pricehitting new all-time highs, now might be good time to ask, is bitcoin money?

According to Aristotle, for something to be considered money, is has to fulfill four characteristics:

1) It must be durable. It can't fade, corrode.

2) It must be portable. It has to be 'dense' so that you can take it with you when you travel to the market.

3) It must be divisible or, 'fungible.' This means that if you break it up into smaller pieces each smaller piece when you add them up will equal the value of the original piece.

4) It must have intrinsic value. This means it must have value whether or not it's used as money per se.

Let's look at these four characteristics and see if they apply to Bitcoin.

1) Durability.

Bitcoin is a peer-to-peer, decentralized form of money; as durable as the Internet itself. Remember, the Internet or DARPA as it was originally called, was created as a fail-safe, global network with no 'single point of failure.' If one part goes down, data takes another route and nothing is lost. So on this point the answer is "Yes," Bitcoin is durable.

2) Portability.

Bitcoin is probably the most portable money in the history of the world. I can download any amount onto a thumb drive and walk across any border without any problems. Or, I could commit to memory a line of code that I can then input into the network and save or spend Bitcoins. So on the point of portability, Bitcoin gets an Aristotelian "Yes."

3) Fungibility.

Bitcoin is probably the most fungible currency ever created. You can break it down by 10,000 decimal places and trade it just as easily without it changing in value so on this point the answer is also "Yes."

4) Intrinsic Value.

This is probably the characteristic that most people find difficult to comprehend. The intrinsic value of Bitcoin is very 21st century. If you think about it, what's the one thing that has become extremely scarce over the past thirty years that has grown in desirability? Privacy.

Privacy is an age of universal email collection and spying, with millions of CCTV camera's, and warrantless spying pervasive; privacy has become virtually non existent and therefore extremely scarce and desirable. Bitcoin can be a completely anonymous transaction that maintains the user's privacy beyond the reach of any authority. So on this point too, the answer is "Yes," Bitcoin fulfills Aristotle's need for having intrinsic value. Privacy is a desirable human right and people would want it even if it wasn't encoded as Bitcoins.

In conclusion, using Aristotle's four characteristics of money, Bitcoin fulfills all four. So then according to an Aristotelian definition, the answer is 'Yes.' Bitcoin is money.

-t

[hazek]

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, I don't really care.

I value bitcoins and so do many many more and that's all I care about.

[DGambler]

How do you get bitcoin anonymously?

[ninepointfive]

So what happened to that bitcoin market which was hacked and emptied out?

What's the chances this happens in the future?

[hazek]

How do you get bitcoin anonymously?

Cheap less convenient option: http://localbitcoins.com

More expensive faster option: http://bitinstant.com (pick "Pay to?" -> "your Bitcoin address" and fake your name when you go to your wallmart to pay)

[hazek]

So what happened to that bitcoin market which was hacked and emptied out?

What's the chances this happens in the future?

If you're talking about http://bitfloor.com then the answer is they're still open, they froze everyone's balances and are slowly releasing them back as they earn some profit which is happening painfully slow atm.

Yes it can happen again that's why you should be extremely careful who you trust to hold your bitcoins just like you'd be extremely careful who you trust to hold your physical gold.

[heavenlyboy34]

I'm excited about the possibilities of bitcoin. However, at this time, I don't know of any retailers in my area that accept it. And you have to carry a digital "wallet" of them, yes? I don't have many spare FRNs to buy gadgets and do-dads. Perhaps there's a bitcoin FAQ out there?

[muh_roads]

I'm excited about the possibilities of bitcoin. However, at this time, I don't know of any retailers in my area that accept it. And you have to carry a digital "wallet" of them, yes? I don't have many spare FRNs to buy gadgets and do-dads. Perhaps there's a bitcoin FAQ out there?

The fact that no retailer in your area accepts it yet should tell you that maybe you should get in on this "do-dad". People have an opportunity to get involved with something similar to the beginnings of Apple or Microsoft before they became popular.

Max Keiser says if Bitcoin can take over just 1% of the Forex market, that would value each BTC at $100K each. He's predicting it'll dominate 10% for starters.

This isn't a stock. There isn't a centralized Bitcoin, Inc. company. This is a new startup currency created for and by the people without government able to track & control it. It is finite. What it lacks in intrinsic value it more than makes up for in utility. Value exists so long as people give it value. And right now it is the only way to pay for things Government doesn't want you to do.

This goes beyond drugs. This is about control. Many people can't wire money outside of their oppressive countries. Bitcoin allows for this to happen. Only 13 million will exist by 2014. That isn't too many to share considering how many people in the world use the internet. If just 5% of the total internet surfing population invests in bitcoin that is huge.

Bitcoin will be the largest threat to central banking. And as such people should invest their time into understanding cold storage encryption like Armory... http://bitcoinarmory.com/using-offline-wallets-in-armory/

That way you don't have to worry about government and hackers trying to take down your online wallets. Keep your private key offline and your public key deposit only.

[hazek]

Well, it's official!

Bitcoin is legal and money: http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/pdf/FIN-2013-G001.pdf

[cubical]

Max Keiser says if Bitcoin can take over just 1% of the Forex market, that would value each BTC at $100K each. He's predicting it'll dominate 10% for starters.



LOL, the forex market is many trillions of dollars. Making baseless connections like this is simply hype, nothing more. I just want to be able to short bitcoin.

[muh_roads]

LOL, the forex market is many trillions of dollars. Making baseless connections like this is simply hype, nothing more. I just want to be able to short bitcoin.

And why is that so hard to believe if a Bitcoin is divisible by 8 decimal places?

Lets say 1 billion people out of the 8 billion use the internet. If only 20% of that 1 billion try out Bitcoin...that is 200 million users sharing 13 million btc by 2014. They also say roughly 7 million got lost in the ether because people formatted and deleted their hard drives/wallets because they didn't care back when they were worth a penny. Now we're down to only 6 million that are actually available so far...

The math isn't baseless. The hypotheticals are reasonable.

[ronpaulfollower999]

LOL, the forex market is many trillions of dollars. Making baseless connections like this is simply hype, nothing more. I just want to be able to short bitcoin.

So far, you'd be getting your ass kicked. Up to $51 now.

[muh_roads]

So far, you'd be getting your ass kicked. Up to $51 now.

Yep, he has been saying that since $30.

[jclay2]

The fact that no retailer in your area accepts it yet should tell you that maybe you should get in on this "do-dad". People have an opportunity to get involved with something similar to the beginnings of Apple or Microsoft before they became popular.

Max Keiser says if Bitcoin can take over just 1% of the Forex market, that would value each BTC at $100K each. He's predicting it'll dominate 10% for starters.

This isn't a stock. There isn't a centralized Bitcoin, Inc. company. This is a new startup currency created for and by the people without government able to track & control it. It is finite. What it lacks in intrinsic value it more than makes up for in utility. Value exists so long as people give it value. And right now it is the only way to pay for things Government doesn't want you to do.

Your posts make bitcoin seem more of a bubble than anything else.

[cubical]

So far, you'd be getting your ass kicked. Up to $51 now.

i would only short when it goes parabolic.

[cubical]

And why is that so hard to believe if a Bitcoin is divisible by 8 decimal places?

Lets say 1 billion people out of the 8 billion use the internet. If only 20% of that 1 billion try out Bitcoin...that is 200 million users sharing 13 million btc by 2014. They also say roughly 7 million got lost in the ether because people formatted and deleted their hard drives/wallets because they didn't care back when they were worth a penny. Now we're down to only 6 million that are actually available so far...

The math isn't baseless. The hypotheticals are reasonable.

Only 20%?? 20% of the world's internet users?

These numbers are being thrown around as if they are easy to achieve. These outrageous numbers being talked about as if they are just around the corner is typical of a bubble.

[oyarde]

Is it money ? from a traditional common sense standpoint , probably not . We do not though any longer live in such a world , so , I suppose anything is possible. I have no use for it myself , there is nothing I can do with it .

[muh_roads]

Your posts make bitcoin seem more of a bubble than anything else.

There will be corrections, as with anything.

[helmuth_hubener]

Is Bitcoin Money?

No.

Nor are casino chips money.

All money must either be a commodity, or must have started as a commodity if one traces back its history far enough. This is Ludwig von Mises' Regression Theorem.

Bitcoin will never become a generally accepted money because market participants will never choose to use a medium of exchange with no intrinsic value rather than one with intrinsic value. It can, however, be used in a limited way within a limited sphere, just as casino chips can be so used.

[hazek]

Is Bitcoin Money?

No.


FinCEN disagrees with you. ;) I mean fuck them but still ;)

Read all about it: http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/pdf/FIN-2013-G001.pdf

[helmuth_hubener]

Yeah, I saw that. I'm always happy to disagree with a committee of tyrants. :)

Anyway, nothing against Bitcoin, it's fine technology and it is making people think about this kind of stuff, spreading the meme of anonymous digital currencies. I happen to prefer commodity-backed digital currencies, however. Hopefully many of the Bitcoin users will come around to them more and more as some of the problems of a worthless currency become apparent.

[muh_roads]

Yeah, I saw that. I'm always happy to disagree with a committee of tyrants. :)

Anyway, nothing against Bitcoin, it's fine technology and it is making people think about this kind of stuff, spreading the meme of anonymous digital currencies. I happen to prefer commodity-backed digital currencies, however. Hopefully many of the Bitcoin users will come around to them more and more as some of the problems of a worthless currency become apparent.

In a digital world metals are annoying to deal with...they are heavy and you have to trust the shipper. In an oppressive world, wiring money outside of your country if you don't live in the western world is near impossible for many.

What Bitcoin lacks in intrinsic value it makes up for in utility. Sending instantly to anyone in the world. This is its industry.

Your very use of the word "worthless" exposes how you don't understand money as well as you may think you do. People holding onto old-school notions written by people who don't understand computers may find themselves envious in a few years.

EDIT: I feel like a broken record.

[hazek]

Hopefully many of the Bitcoin users will come around to them more and more as some of the problems of a worthless currency become apparent.

Or not and it will be you who will come around. Remember I advocate both PMs and cryptocurrencies.