Paedophilia a mental illness, 'not a criminal condition', says cardinal

[presence]

http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/world/story/paedophilia-mental-illness-not-criminal-condition-says-cardinal-20130316


LONDON (AFP) - A South African cardinal who helped elect Pope Francis said on Saturday that paedophilia is a psychological illness, not "a criminal condition".

Cardinal Wilfrid Fox Napier, the Archbishop of Durban, told BBC radio that people who become paedophiles after being abused as children should be treated by doctors. His comments came as Francis, the first pontiff to hail from Latin America, takes the helm of a Catholic Church rocked by thousands of cases of child abuse by paedophile priests.
Cardinal Napier, who was among the 115 cardinals who elected Francis at the Vatican on Wednesday, told the BBC: "From my experience, paedophilia is actually an illness - it is not a criminal condition."
The 72-year-old added: "What do you do with disorders? You have got to try and put them right." He spoke of two priests he knew who were abused as children and went on to become paedophiles.

[Kotin]

if you act upon the "illness" it is very criminal you fuck.

[Petar]

http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/world/story/paedophilia-mental-illness-not-criminal-condition-says-cardinal-20130316

When I was like 17 I had to do community services for a Catholic church and I got to know the preist a little bit.

He was trying to save my soul or whatever, and I ended up mentioning how many priests were pedophiles.

I still remember how he seemed to recoil in shock when I mentioned that.

The guy had a total Mr. Rogers kind of vibe, and he ended up getting busted for pedophilia a couple of years later.

He didn't come across as sadistic at all, I guess that he was just a sad sick puppy.

With that said, I can think of no better therapy for those types than many years to sit and think about their crimes.

[cheapseats]

http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/world/story/paedophilia-mental-illness-not-criminal-condition-says-cardinal-20130316

LONDON (AFP) - A South African cardinal who helped elect Pope Francis said on Saturday that paedophilia is a psychological illness, not "a criminal condition".

Cardinal Wilfrid Fox Napier, the Archbishop of Durban, told BBC radio that people who become paedophiles after being abused as children should be treated by doctors. His comments came as Francis, the first pontiff to hail from Latin America, takes the helm of a Catholic Church rocked by thousands of cases of child abuse by paedophile priests.

Cardinal Napier, who was among the 115 cardinals who elected Francis at the Vatican on Wednesday, told the BBC: "From my experience, paedophilia is actually an illness - it is not a criminal condition."

The 72-year-old added: "What do you do with disorders? You have got to try and put them right." He spoke of two priests he knew who were abused as children and went on to become paedophiles.


Self-serving, CLAN-serving euphemistic bullshit.

[moostraks]

It is an incurable illness as I understand it. Having lived through such, I have never understood those who believe that criminal charges or financial rewards will change things. I do agree with criminal charges against those who harbor the abusers knowing what the abusers are doing to those whom they abuse. They are aware of what is going on and are too cowardly to do the right thing and protect the innocence of children. The abuser is dysfunctional so I Don't think criminal charges can change them.

[tangent4ronpaul]

people who become paedophiles after being abused as children should be treated by doctors.

OK, so who is a "paedophile"? (This seems to be a UK spelling...)
According to the state of DE - that would be having sex with anyone under 21. I'm sure that went over really good on those campuses...
According to congress - it's 18 worldwide - despite local laws.
according to the APA is anyone that is prepubescent - that's like ~10 and under...
THe average age of consent in the USA is 16!

It used to be 14...

-t

[moostraks]

When I was like 17 I had to do community services for a Catholic church and I got to know the preist a little bit.

He was trying to save my soul or whatever, and I ended up mentioning how many priests were pedophiles.

I still remember how he seemed to recoil in shock when I mentioned that.

The guy had a total Mr. Rogers kind of vibe, and he ended up getting busted for pedophilia a couple of years later.

He didn't come across as sadistic at all, I guess that he was just a sad sick puppy.

With that said, I can think of no better therapy for those types than many years to sit and think about their crimes.

I think it is like any addictive behavior. Time won't change it for them if they find themselves in a circumstance where they can get away with it. They will most likely give in to their impulses.

[cheapseats]

It is an incurable illness as I understand it. Having lived through such, I have never understood those who believe that criminal charges or financial rewards will change things. I do agree with criminal charges against those who harbor the abusers knowing what the abusers are doing to those whom they abuse. They are aware of what is going on and are too cowardly to do the right thing and protect the innocence of children.

That'd be the Catholic Hierarchy . . . the BOSS MEN.




The abuser is dysfunctional so I Don't think criminal charges can change them.

Criminal charges can, however, take them OUT OF CIRCULATION.

[TokenLibertarianGuy]

There's a very easy cure for pedophilia:

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/qctimes.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/03/a03c2578-23d3-11e2-b158-0019bb2963f4/5091eb7c38ae6.preview-620.jpg

[itshappening]

There is a debate about pedo's in the medical profession. They are saying, like the cardinal, that the men cannot help their attractions. So what's the answer? let them have access to porn of that variety which is also banned and a criminal offense or watch them abuse kids?

[tangent4ronpaul]

With that said, I can think of no better therapy for those types than many years to sit and think about their crimes.

I'm sure many did - like the woman that got carjacked and stabbed to death and her 10yo raped.... recent thread...

-t

[cheapseats]

http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking...dinal-20130316

The 72-year-old added: "What do you do with disorders? You have got to try and put them right."



... I can think of no better therapy for those types than many years to sit and think about their crimes.


If you meant SIT IN PRISON, I couldn't agree more.

Captain, COOL HAND LUKE: "...you gonna get your mind right. And I mean RIGHT. Take a good look at Luke."

[TokenLibertarianGuy]

There is a debate about pedo's in the medical profession. They are saying, like the cardinal, that the men cannot help their attractions. So what's the answer? let them have access to porn of that variety which is also banned and a criminal offense or watch them abuse kids?

And how do you create this kind of porn without abusing kids?

[itshappening]

With that said, I can think of no better therapy for those types than many years to sit and think about their crimes.

Locking them up and letting think about their crimes are not going to kill their attractions and urges. They will come out eventually and carry on their repulsive behavior. So you want to lock them up for life? That's incredibly expensive and probably not feasible

[itshappening]

And how do you create this kind of porn without abusing kids?

It's a classic catch 22 but the porn is already out there sadly enough and widely available.

[tangent4ronpaul]

There is a debate about pedo's in the medical profession. They are saying, like the cardinal, that the men cannot help their attractions. So what's the answer? let them have access to porn of that variety which is also banned and a criminal offense or watch them abuse kids?

Given those 2 choices - I'd say access to THAT porn would be better...

-t

[Petar]

Locking them up and letting think about their crimes are not going to kill their attractions and urges. They will come out eventually and carry on their repulsive behavior. So you want to lock them up for life? That's incredibly expensive and probably not feasible

The best you can do is punish them severely and hope that they learn to control their stupid urges.

Or you lock them up for life or just kill them.

[RockEnds]

There's a very easy cure for pedophilia:

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/qctimes.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/03/a03c2578-23d3-11e2-b158-0019bb2963f4/5091eb7c38ae6.preview-620.jpg


Yes. Too bad more of them don't take the initiative to cure themselves.

[itshappening]

The best you can do is punish them severely and hope that they learn to control their stupid urges.

Or you lock them up for life or just kill them.

If the medical profession end up classifying it as a mental disorder, you want to kill mentally deranged men who haven't carried out a capital offense? I'm not sure that's a good idea. There needs to be some sort of treatment and supervision of them. I don't know what the answer is.

[tangent4ronpaul]

And how do you create this kind of porn without abusing kids?

With their consent?

Yes - if you non-consensually RAPE the girl - I can see her having a lot of issues to deal with... However, I have seen a number of posts in the last several days that said those involved in consensual relationships thought positively about them. When underage. I've found a number of such reports myself.

We are talking about a 1-10 year age range of legal and illegal - WOW! Even more if you consider the world.

What is right in what country, what state. Internationally? Within what culture and religion?

-t

[moostraks]

That'd be the Catholic Hierarchy . . . the BOSS MEN.





Criminal charges can, however, take them OUT OF CIRCULATION. The boss men who hid them should be held accountable imo. Like I said I am giving you my opinion as one who came through the other side. Unless you are going to jail them indefinitely, I think the criminal angle is a waste, and it isn't accurate because what is wrong is in their head. It isn't something that is done by someone who is capable of curbing the behavior through fear of being legally punished since it seems to be an impulse control issue for most of those who abuse others in this way. So the medical field would be more logical to deal with these folks and be held accountable for them when they abuse again.

[moostraks]

If the medical profession end up classifying it as a mental disorder, you want to kill mentally deranged men who haven't carried out a capital offense? I'm not sure that's a good idea. There needs to be some sort of treatment and supervision of them. I don't know what the answer is.

It seems from how I have come to understand the issue that the only way to deal with them is not to allow them in circumstances where they can act on their impulses. Basically keep them away from children unsupervised.

[TokenLibertarianGuy]

With their consent?

A 6 year old can't consent to be raped anally on film.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

With their consent?

Consent? Really? Do you really think a 5 year old can competently consent to something such as that? What about a baby? Some of this sick freaks like one year olds.

[tangent4ronpaul]

A 6 year old can't consent to be raped anally on film.

6yo is REALLY pushing it!

-t

[cheapseats]

...I think the criminal angle is a waste, and it isn't accurate because what is wrong is in their head. It isn't something that is done by someone who is capable of curbing the behavior through fear of being legally punished since it seems to be an impulse control issue for most of those who abuse others...


Then ALL Thieves, Fraudsters, Rapists and Murderers do not warrant punishment, but should be lavished with do-gooder diversionary programs for being "not right in the head, with no impulse control".

[tangent4ronpaul]

Look folks - I'm talking about how things were in this country a hundred or so years ago... Like post puberty...

In the Middle east, arranged marriages are to join families. They generally have hearums(sp). Kind of like some Mormons. I have no clue as to sexual practices with a new VERY underage bride. I would think it was for the connection to the other family than an immediate sexual contact but IDK...

-t

[RonPaulFanInGA]

When I was like 17 I had to do community services for a Catholic church and I got to know the preist a little bit.

He was trying to save my soul or whatever, and I ended up mentioning how many priests were pedophiles.

Isn't it odd how everyone mentions the pedophile aspect of the whole Catholic Church thing, but never the homosexual part? It was men preying on boys; being attracted to the same-sex. Yet the media beats the drum for more gay bishops. That will end well...

[itshappening]

Then ALL Thieves, Fraudsters, Rapists and Murderers do not warrant punishment, but should be lavished with do-gooder diversionary programs for being "not right in the head, with no impulse control".

There is a slight difference in that these people are born "not right in the head" and grow up and deal with these urges all their life like homosexuals. Murder, thieving etc. there is more of a choice and less of an ingrained impulse. Although lets not forget there are many deranged and insane people who murder.

I do agree that if someone rapes a child they should receive maximum punishment and when released need to be carefully monitored and supervised but i'm not sure if locking people up for merely consuming the sadly already available pornography of this variety is a good idea. I do think those making it should receive the maximum sentences but those consuming it I think is a little over the top. After all, the fact that they're consuming the pornography is probably better than them going out and raping a kid.

[TokenLibertarianGuy]

Isn't it odd how everyone mentions the pedophile aspect of the whole Catholic Church thing, but never the homosexual part? It was men preying on boys; being attracted to the same-sex. Yet the media beats the drum for more gay bishops. That will end well...

What I find extremely hypocritical in the media is bashing the Boy Scouts for trying to prevent exactly what happened in the Church by banning gay scout leaders but then bashing the Church for not allowing gay priests.

[cheapseats]

Isn't it odd how everyone mentions the pedophile aspect, but never the homosexual part? It was men preying on boys; being attracted to the same-sex. Yet the media beats the drum for more gay bishops. That will end well...

Not ODD, considering the number of homosexuals sashaying in the Catholic Clergy, rather, OBFUSCATING.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

What I find extremely hypocritical in the media is bashing the Boy Scouts for trying to prevent exactly what happened in the Church by banning gay scout leaders but then bashing the Church for not allowing gay priests.

The media in general doesn't seem to like either organization (Boy Scouts and the Catholic Church.) Maybe their cunning plan to push for more homosexuals, then report on the inevitable abuses that follow and slowly kill them with bad publicity.

[RockEnds]

There is a slight difference in that these people are born "not right in the head" and grow up and deal with these urges all their life like homosexuals. Murder, thieving etc. there is more of a choice and less of an ingrained impulse.

I do agree that if someone rapes a child they should receive maximum punishment and when released need to be carefully monitored and supervised but i'm not sure if locking people up for merely consuming the sadly already available pornography of this variety is a good idea. I do think those making it should receive the maximum sentences but those consuming it I think is a little over the top. After all, the fact that they're consuming the pornography is probably better than them going out and raping a kid.

So then you would be okay with it if you were the child being abused in that pornography? That would be just fine with you if a bunch of worthless perverts were getting off to the image of you being raped as a child?

[cheapseats]

There is a slight difference in that these people are born "not right in the head" and grow up and deal with these urges all their life like homosexuals. Murder, thieving etc. there is more of a choice and less of an ingrained impulse.

POP CULTURE

Getting the Indoctrinated to accept that CHILD MOLESTATION is the "uncontrollable impulse of a sick person" is MORE INDOCTRINATION.



I do agree that if someone rapes a child they should receive maximum punishment...

Hopefully, they will be killed in prison and we will be spared the expense and anxiety of "lifetime supervision/babysitting".

[itshappening]

So then you would be okay with it if you were the child being abused in that pornography? That would be just fine with you if a bunch of worthless perverts were getting off to the image of you being raped as a child?

No, i'd want the producers and distributors of such material to be punished but not the run of the mill pervert consuming it. I think it's better for them to look at pictures of sadly abused children than to go out and commit such acts themselves and put more kids in danger.

[Christian Liberty]

It is an incurable illness as I understand it. Having lived through such, I have never understood those who believe that criminal charges or financial rewards will change things. I do agree with criminal charges against those who harbor the abusers knowing what the abusers are doing to those whom they abuse. They are aware of what is going on and are too cowardly to do the right thing and protect the innocence of children. The abuser is dysfunctional so I Don't think criminal charges can change them.

So chop off their heads.

I've got no sympathy for people that claim, after ruining the lives of children, "My illness made me do it." Give me a break. you are responsible for your own actions.

[moostraks]

Then ALL Thieves, Fraudsters, Rapists and Murderers do not warrant punishment, but should be lavished with do-gooder diversionary programs for being "not right in the head, with no impulse control".
Lol...I think a number of those in jail are not going to change and criminal charges should be reserved by those who can be changed through that form of punishment. Otherwise it is a waste of resources. It doesn't mean they aren't dealt with but how you choose to handle the situation in an effective manner. Some behaviors need to be handled through the medical field when it is a psychological disorder. If you think being trapped in a state psych ward is not punishment then maybe you should go sometime and be locked in and test that theory. If the psych ward gets held accountable for real head cases maybe they can stop wasting their resources on drugging those who don't need it and focus on the real cases.

[itshappening]

So chop off their heads.

I've got no sympathy for people that claim, after ruining the lives of children, "My illness made me do it." Give me a break. you are responsible for your own actions.

There are deranged people who hear voices in their head telling them to murder...

They tend to be locked up indefinitely as it's such a small amount of people but you can't feasibly lock up every single pervert as the numbers are too overwhelming and putting them to death is over the top.

There must be some sort of therapy or drug that can be devised to help them deal with it.

[TokenLibertarianGuy]

Not ODD, considering the number of homosexuals sashaying in the Catholic Clergy, rather, OBFUSCATING.

The incidence of homosexuality and/or pedophilia within the Catholic clergy is no higher than in other denominations or the general population.

[itshappening]

POP CULTURE

Getting the Indoctrinated to accept that CHILD MOLESTATION is the "uncontrollable impulse of a sick person" is MORE INDOCTRINATION.




Hopefully, they will be killed in prison and we will be spared the expense and anxiety of "lifetime supervision/babysitting".


This isn't indoctrination or pop culture. These issues are being debated by the medical profession and the people who have to work with these perverts in the criminal justice system,, psychologists etc..

[tangent4ronpaul]

Not ODD, considering the number of homosexuals sashaying in the Catholic Clergy, rather, OBFUSCATING.

When I think pedo - I think PRIEST!


The media in general doesn't seem to like either organization (Boy Scouts and the Catholic Church.) Maybe their cunning plan to push for more homosexuals, then report on the inevitable abuses that follow and slowly kill them with bad publicity.

GS is the one famously known for promoting homosexuality.... Bunch of carpet munchers...

-t

[cheapseats]

The incidence of homosexuality and/or pedophilia within the Catholic clergy is no higher than in other denominations or the general population.


You have ZERO objectivity about the Catholic Church.

The incidence of shielding PEDOPHILES IN THEIR RANKS may be no greater in the Catholic Church than in the NCAA, but it is WORSE...regardless of your pontification about all sins/sinners being equal.

[shane77m]

There's a very easy cure for pedophilia:

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/qctimes.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/03/a03c2578-23d3-11e2-b158-0019bb2963f4/5091eb7c38ae6.preview-620.jpg

must spread some rep around

[RockEnds]

No, i'd want the producers and distributors of such material to be punished but not the run of the mill pervert consuming it. I think it's better for them to look at pictures of sadly abused children than to go out and commit such acts themselves and put more kids in danger.

So does the kid at least get royalties? Since it is apparently their duty to allow their image to "save the children" surely they get something out of this?

[itshappening]

If you want to shoot all pedo's you'd be shooting a lot of people every year who may or not be considered mentally deranged and retarded.

Society does indeed recognize that it's a bad idea to kill mental people. I think some states spare the death penalty for capital crimes if it's proven that they're insane.

[moostraks]

So chop off their heads.

I've got no sympathy for people that claim, after ruining the lives of children, "My illness made me do it." Give me a break. you are responsible for your own actions.

I can understand the contempt. I'm not much on the death penalty esp. with a corrupt government in charge of the court system. I am trying to look at it from a means to effectively neutralize those who commit these offenses. It destroys those they abuse for years, trust me and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. The state loves to act as if the abused is somehow culpable as well for the actions of the abuser or act as if all those so abused are then going to commit the same offense. So as a virtual Tim it becomes the gift that keeps on giving....

[RonPaulFanInGA]

I think some states spare the death penalty for capital crimes if it's proven that they're insane.

That's every state since the Atkins v. Virginia ruling in 2002.

[Antischism]

As I understand it, being attracted to prepubescent children isn't something an individual can suddenly change. Attraction isn't a choice, in other words. Outside of heavy therapy and conditioning, it can't be helped. As to how these urges develop, there are many possible reasons, but to get to the point, acting upon the sexual attraction and taking advantage of a child is a criminal offense which must be reported, not hidden. Both the pedophile priests and higher-ups should be punished; one for the criminal act, the other for complicity. There's absolutely no excuse in covering up these abuses.

The best solution is to attempt getting these individuals help before they act upon their urges, if they've ever given it any thought. Remember, a pedophile isn't always EXCLUSIVELY attracted to prepubescent children, although it points towards a primary attraction. In such cases, it may be easier to help them through therapy since their sexual attraction isn't exclusively for those below the age of puberty. We also have to be careful of condemning people for "thought crimes" especially in the case of sexual attraction because simply thinking about it isn't harming others. What we do need to find out or determine is how prone they may be to acting out on their sexual desires if there's ever any indication that they may be close to crossing that line.

Don't yell at these people and call them "dirty pedos" or other derogatory names for an attraction they can't help, rather, talk to them and try to help so the abuse never happens. If you get any clear indication that they're about to commit the crime of sexual abuse on a minor, by all means, act before it happens.

There's a huge market for video and photography of children being sexually abused and exploited, and I know many have made the case that allowing pedophiles to view such content may help keep them from acting out on children themselves. However, if you open up that door, I think it would only encourage the black market to increase production of these videos for the consumption of legally viewable material. So in this scenario, would the crackdown on those who create and distribute these videos have to be ramped up? As an example, possession is legal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_pornography_laws_in_Japan) in Japan, but creation and distribution are not.

Just for clarity since many people tend to confuse these:

Pedophile: A person above the age of 16 with a sexual attraction towards prepubescent children, meaning usually below the age of 11.
Hebephile: An attraction for pubescent children between the age of 11-14. It's quite specific.
Ephebophile: This is the term for individuals attracted to adolescents around the ages of 15-19. In other words, people who are still young, but developed enough that the age of consent begins in the low end of this bracket in many places.

As far as the usage of the word "pedophile" is concerned, it seems the majority of people lump hebephilia in with it as well.

[cheapseats]

...acting upon the sexual attraction and taking advantage of a child is a criminal offense which must be reported, not hidden. Both the pedophile priests and higher-ups should be punished; one for the criminal act, the other for complicity. There's absolutely no excuse in covering up these abuses...

Right on.

[tangent4ronpaul]

As I understand it, being attracted to prepubescent children isn't something an individual can suddenly change. Attraction isn't a choice, in other words. Outside of heavy therapy and conditioning, it can't be helped. As to how these urges develop, there are many possible reasons, but to get to the point, acting upon the sexual attraction and taking advantage of a child is a criminal offense which must be reported, not hidden. Both the pedophile priests and higher-ups should be punished; one for the criminal act, the other for complicity. There's absolutely no excuse in covering up these abuses.

The best solution is to attempt getting these individuals help before they act upon their urges, if they've ever given it any thought. Remember, a pedophile isn't always EXCLUSIVELY attracted to prepubescent children, although it points towards a primary attraction. In such cases, it may be easier to help them through therapy since their sexual attraction isn't exclusively for those below the age of puberty.

Just for clarity since many people tend to confuse these:

Pedophile: A person above the age of 16 with a sexual attraction towards prepubescent children, meaning usually below the age of 11.
Hebephile: An attraction for pubescent children between the age of 11-14. It's quite specific.
Ephebophile: This is the term for individuals attracted to adolescents around the ages of 15-19. In other words, people who are still young, but developed enough that the age of consent begins in the low end of this bracket in many places.

As far as the usage of the word "pedophile" is concerned, it seems the majority of people lump hebephilia in with it as well.

You nailed it!
+rep!

=t

[TokenLibertarianGuy]

You have ZERO objectivity about the Catholic Church.

And your obvious hatred destroy any objectivity you try and pretend you have.


The incidence of shielding PEDOPHILES IN THEIR RANKS may be no greater in the Catholic Church than in the NCAA, but it is WORSE...regardless of your pontification about all sins/sinners being equal.

I have never said all sins are equal, they aren't. Nor have I ever defended the covering up of abuse in the Church nor condoned any abuse. I think the abuses and cover up are despicable and inexcusable.

[kcchiefs6465]

No, i'd want the producers and distributors of such material to be punished but not the run of the mill pervert consuming it. I think it's better for them to look at pictures of sadly abused children than to go out and commit such acts themselves and put more kids in danger.
Did you ever think that they'd probably do it either way?

[otherone]

Do healthy heterosexual priests control their inclinations? Of course. Pedophilia is about control. It's heinous. The problem isn't the "condition". The problem is that priesthood attracts those with all manner of sexual perversity. The Catholic church has been a haven for deviants since it's requirement of celibacy.

[kcchiefs6465]

There are deranged people who hear voices in their head telling them to murder...

They tend to be locked up indefinitely as it's such a small amount of people but you can't feasibly lock up every single pervert as the numbers are too overwhelming and putting them to death is over the top.

There must be some sort of therapy or drug that can be devised to help them deal with it.
There is a drug that helps them deal with it. Usually it is a trio of drugs, though one imparticular seems to help them 'deal with it' more than the others. I would agree to these drugs being used to treat their 'illness':

Sodium thiopental
Pancuronium bromide
and finally, Potassium chloride

[itshappening]

There is a drug that helps them deal with it. Usually it is a trio of drugs, though one imparticular seems to help them 'deal with it' more than the others. I would agree to these drugs being used to treat their 'illness':

Sodium thiopental
Pancuronium bromide
and finally, Potassium chloride

So you want mass death for potentially hundreds of thousands of people? No matter how sick and perverted they are killing a large number of humans like animals on annual basis who the medical profession may or may not consider deranged is inhumane.

[Working Poor]

I don't really know what should be done about this. I feel certain that it must be a sickness with horrendous consequences. It is my understanding that the abused mature into abusers.

The catholic church needs to become a part of the solution to this problem. It seems that societal problems take years to resolve and I wonder if they ever really do get resolved?

I pray for the abuser and the abused in hope that something not cruel or unusual is looked at a solution..
Ihave heard rumblings about pedophiles wanting to declare themselves to be like homosexuals a group misunderstood and hated. I don't think giving them legitamcy is the answer. They maybe should not live in regular society.

[kcchiefs6465]

So you want mass death for potentially hundreds of thousands of people? No matter how sick and perverted they are killing a large number of humans like animals on annual basis who the medical profession may or may not consider deranged is inhumane.
Inhumane? They get a paryalyzing agent. It's about as humane as I can think of.

Mass death? I would really like to hope that pedophiles aren't that prevelant in our society as it to be a 'mass death.' Though if they were, so be it. The world would be a better place afterwards. Very simply, should you be found guilty of raping a child, with a clear amount of evidence [DNA, or what have you] you should be put down. I am not of the belief that they can be rehabilitated. [and most of the time I don't think they deserve the chance] Many have mentioned as much. [that they will do it again when they get the chance] I don't know, maybe it is a sickness, Jeffery Dahmer was sick too, I'm sure. Mental illness is not a reason to not put them down. [mental retardation may be a different story] Often times mental illness is more of a reason. [they can't differentiate right from wrong, and will continue to act solely on impulse- if said impulse is to drug and eat people [or rape children].. by all means kill them- think of it like a rabid dog- they are mentally sick, but very dangerous as well.. you don't just cage a rabid dog and hope it gets better] Rapists are literally the scum of the earth. It does not get any lower than that. They are by and large predatory individuals that should not be allowed free roaming in our society.

The only true issue I see with my proposal is that there have been people sent to prison on eyewitness testimony alone yet DNA has exonerated them. If there is an abundance of evidence, an admission, etc., kill them. I really couldn't care less if it's humane or not.

[moostraks]

I don't really know what should be done about this. I feel certain that it must be a sickness with horrendous consequences. It is my understanding that the abused mature into abusers.

The catholic church needs to become a part of the solution to this problem. It seems that societal problems take years to resolve and I wonder if they ever really do get resolved?

I pray for the abuser and the abused in hope that something not cruel or unusual is looked at a solution..
Ihave heard rumblings about pedophiles wanting to declare themselves to be like homosexuals a group misunderstood and hated. I don't think giving them legitamcy is the answer. They maybe should not live in regular society.
I can say with certainty not all abused do. You are branded by that abuse though as it effects relationships years later.I don't think violent solutions like murder or death help the abused. They do need some sense though that what they suffered won't be inflicted upon others and a criminal sentence does not cure the offenders from what I have read. Monetary reward will just make you a prostitute and compound the psychological damage done, at least that is where I am coming from....

[american.swan]

Mental health issues? Take any teenage boy, have them be rejected by girls. Have some gay characters on tv. Turn up the hormones high enough and I'm sure quite a large number of boys will convince themselves they're gay.

Horny men, no wife, surrounded by boys, yeah, sounds like a disaster in the making. This could have been predicted by any fool. Mental health issues? BS! Absolutely BS!

Until the church puts their heads on straight and allows marriage, expect gay pedophile problems!

This situation has nothing to do with age of consent. Priests need girlfriends.

[moostraks]

Mental health issues? Take any teenage boy, have them be rejected by girls. Have some gay characters on tv. Turn up the hormones high enough and I'm sure quite a large number of boys will convince themselves they're gay.

Horny men, no wife, surrounded by boys, yeah, sounds like a disaster in the making. This could have been predicted by any fool. Mental health issues? BS! Absolutely BS!

Until the church puts their heads on straight and allows marriage, expect gay pedophile problems!

This situation has nothing to do with age of consent. Priests need girlfriends. Really? Chastity vows might explain those who beat the system by having sex with prostitutes but I do not think it excuses them abusing children. I think there is a different logic in play when someone is taking the innocence of a child and corrupting it.

[TokenLibertarianGuy]

The Catholic church has been a haven for deviants since it's requirement of celibacy.

False, every study of abuses in the Church, including the John Jay report have found that celibacy was not a factor. Also studies have shown that the celibacy requirements in the Latin Rite of the Church have no effect on the incidence of homosexuals, pedophiles, or other sexual deviants within the priesthood.


Data show that the problem of sexual abuse of minors by Catholic priests peaked in the 1970s, with a decline by the mid-1980s in all regions of the Catholic Church in the United States. Though more cases of sexual abuse con- tinue to be reported to dioceses today, almost all of these allegations are of abuse that occurred decades earlier. The documented rise in cases of abuse in the 1960s and 1970s is similar to the rise in other types of “deviant” behavior in society, and coincides with social change during this time period. This period effect is also clearly shown through analysis of the different cohorts of seminary graduates; the later the cohorts, the shorter the average time between ordination and commission of abusive acts. Factors that remained consistent over this time period, such as celibacy, do not explain the sexual abuse “crisis.” Celibacy has been constant in the Catholic Church since the eleventh century and could not account for the rise and subsequent decline in abuse cases from the 1960s through the 1980s.

http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/child-and-youth-protection/upload/The-Causes-and-Context-of-Sexual-Abuse-of-Minors-by-Catholic-Priests-in-the-United-States-1950-2010.pdf

Another thing that should be noted is that the Catholic Church is the only one of its kind in the United States, and by that I mean a central organization of its size and scope. There are literally thousands of Protestant denominations which makes record-keeping and data collection on issues such as this virtually impossible.


The Association of Statisticians of American Religious Bodies estimates that 224,000 churches could be classi- fied as Protestant. Only limited data are available from these churches because of the autonomous organizational structures and varied reporting systems among different denominations, which makes estimating the extent of child sexual abuse within all Protestant churches very difficult.

[bolil]

There's a very easy cure for pedophilia:

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/qctimes.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/03/a03c2578-23d3-11e2-b158-0019bb2963f4/5091eb7c38ae6.preview-620.jpg

indeed.

[american.swan]

Really? Chastity vows might explain those who beat the system by having sex with prostitutes but I do not think it excuses them abusing children. I think there is a different logic in play when someone is taking the innocence of a child and corrupting it.

Well. Yes. They need jail too.

[bolil]

So you want mass death for potentially hundreds of thousands of people? No matter how sick and perverted they are killing a large number of humans like animals on annual basis who the medical profession may or may not consider deranged is inhumane.

If they choose to rape kids, and it can be proved beyond all reasonable doubt, kill em: with gas, with bullets, with blunt objects DOESN'T MATTER. I am not saying the state should kill them, maybe just hold them until said kid is old enough to pull a trigger or swing a baseball bat with the force required to fracture a skull, and that once kid now adult can decide whether to be merciful or not. If the person chooses mercy, and the sex offender is let free, if it offends again it is dead.

Chastity vows have nothing to do with this, and I hardly believe this is as widespread as it is played to be. I don't know what beef is between the secular authorities and the catholic church but there certainly is one.

[TokenLibertarianGuy]

If they choose to rape kids, and it can be proved beyond all reasonable doubt, kill em. I am not saying the state should kill them, maybe just hold them until said kid is old enough to pull a trigger, and that kid can decide whether to be merciful or not.

I'm 100% pro-death penalty for child rapists. Sadly SCROTUS declared that unconstitutional.

[cheapseats]

False, every study of abuses in the Church, including the John Jay report have found that celibacy was not a factor. Also studies have shown that the celibacy requirements in the Latin Rite of the Church have no effect on the incidence of homosexuals, pedophiles, or other sexual deviants within the priesthood.


EVERY study sez celibacy is not a factor in what you compartmentalize as "The Abuses"?


Vatican calls for celibacy training to stop paedophile priests
James Bone Rome

Published at 12:01AM, March 21 2012

A Vatican mission to Ireland has concluded that would-be priests should be given special training to prevent child abuse.

Visiting Vatican investigators called for a “more systematic preparation for a life of priestly celibacy”. They recommended that Irish seminaries “include in the academic programme in-depth information on matters of child protection, with increased pastoral attention to victims of sexual abuse and their families”.

The report also called for “more consistent admission criteria” for men studying for the priesthood to weed out potential abusers.

The Vatican “visitators” toured Ireland in the wake of bitter accusations that the Catholic Church covered up hundreds of cases of child abuse by priests spanning decades.

The scandal has caused the worst deterioration ever in relations between the Church and the Irish State, culminating with the withdrawal of Ireland’s ambassador to the Holy See.

Today’s report compiled the findings of seven teams of Vatican-appointed Church leaders who visited four Archdioceses across Ireland, after Pope Benedict XVI promised an investigation into the scandal.

“With a great sense of pain and shame, it must be acknowledged that within the Christian community innocent young people were abused by clerics ... to whose care they had been entrusted, while those who should have exercised vigilance often failed to do so,” the report said...


http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/faith/article3358101.ece

[TokenLibertarianGuy]

EVERY study sez celibacy is not a factor in what you compartmentalize as "The Abuses"?

Do you always write like a 14 year old girl?

And yes, every report on the sexual abuses by clergy have concluded that a priest's vow of celibacy was not a factor.

[bolil]

EVERY study sez celibacy is not a factor in what you compartmentalize as "The Abuses"?

Straight up, it has nothing to do with chastity or celibacy. Perverts will seek positions that give them easy access to prey (no pun). Child raping is hardly chaste or celibate.

[TokenLibertarianGuy]

Straight up, it has nothing to do with chastity of celibacy. Perverts will seek positions that give them easy access to prey (no pun).

This.

It's why sexual abuse is so much more prevalent in schools than in general society. Unsupervised children are much easier prey than co-workers, for example. It's also why the majority of abuse (sexual, physical, and psychological) happens within families. Abusers are creatures of opportunity.

[bolil]

This.

It's why sexual abuse is so much more prevalent in schools than in general society. Unsupervised children are much easier prey than co-workers, for example.

Ahhh, but if we close our eyes and only listen to what we are told it means this atrocity only happens in the Catholic church.

[cheapseats]

Ahhh, but if we close our eyes and only listen to what we are told it means this atrocity only happens in the Catholic church.


Never thought that, never heard it suggested.

Catholic Brass not "only" COVERED for Pedophiles in their ranks, they knowingly SHUFFLED Pedophiles into positions that not "only" allowed but effectively ENCOURAGED more atrocity.

NOTHING that is wrong with Society makes Catholic Brass anything but GUILTY AS SIN in this horrific saga.

[Anti Federalist]

As I understand it, being attracted to prepubescent children isn't something an individual can suddenly change. Attraction isn't a choice, in other words. Outside of heavy therapy and conditioning, it can't be helped.

Born this way, in other words.

So there is no moral or legal or ethical logic that can be used to "punish" people who can't help what they are.

We're long down that road right now.

I'm curious what new perversion will be become a protected right, as other, much more important rights are shredded and infringed and taken away.

Not to worry about any of this, of course, drugs are now available that alter the very basic brain chemistry of who and what we are, with these, conformity and compliance will be complete and all undesirable traits will be cleansed.

[TokenLibertarianGuy]

Ahhh, but if we close our eyes and only listen to what we are told it means this atrocity only happens in the Catholic church.

Obviously. No child has ever been abused by a teacher, coach, family member, rabbi, tutor, or anyone else they knew.

[bolil]

Never thought that, never heard it suggested.

Catholic Brass not only COVERED for Pedophiles, they SHUFFLED them into positions to commit MORE atrocities.

NOTHING that is wrong with Society makes Catholic Brass RIGHT in this horrific saga.

And fortunately "Catholic brass" are not the embodiment of Catholicism.

The trinity, so I understand, is the embodiment of Catholicism. That and a belief in the divine nature of the Virgin Mary.

[bolil]

Born this way, in other words.

So there is no moral or legal or ethical logic that can be used to "punish" people who can't help what they are.

We're long down that road right now.

I'm curious what new perversion will be become a protected right, as other, much more important rights are shredded and infringed and taken away.

Not to worry about any of this, of course, drugs are now available that alter the very basic brain chemistry of who and what we are, with these, conformity and compliance will be complete and all undesirable traits will be cleansed.

Attraction may not be a choice, but action always is.

[TokenLibertarianGuy]

Attraction may not be a choice, but action always is.

Pretty much the Catholic view on homosexuality.

It's not a sin to be a homosexual or to have homosexual attractions, it is a sin to act on them.

It's also how the law (is supposed to) works. You're innocent until you actually follow through on a crime. You can think about robbing a bank all you like, but until you follow through you haven't committed a crime. (Yes, I realize there is conspiracy to commit laws)

[cheapseats]

And fortunately "Catholic brass" are not the embodiment of Catholicism.


They call the earthly shots in Catholicism, therefore the temporal buck stops with them.

[Anti Federalist]

Attraction may not be a choice, but action always is.

Certainly with homosexuality, any stigmas against attraction and action, are now considered vile and socially unacceptable.

Meh, nvm, don't feel like having this argument right now...

[bolil]

Certainly with homosexuality, any stigmas against attraction and action, are now considered vile and socially unacceptable.

Meh, nvm, don't feel like having this argument right now...


We shall not argue. The crux of it is the age of consent, or the ability to consent. Which predicates an understanding of consequence. Children, for the most part, do not possess this understanding. There is a universe of difference between consenting adults and preyed upon children.

AF, Consider me a big fan.

[bolil]

They call the earthly shots in Catholicism, therefore the temporal buck stops with them.

Funny, and I thought responsibility was the actor's alone.

Otherwise responsibility never stays put, rather climbs until it reaches the top?

[kcchiefs6465]

Certainly with homosexuality, any stigmas against attraction and action, are now considered vile and socially unacceptable.

Other than an arbitrary age assignment, I cannot see any distinction between the two.
Not all homosexuals are attracted to children. There is a clear difference between homosexuality and pedophila. One is usually consenting adults doing what they wish, while the other preys on vulnerable children.

Hence why I really do not care what homosexuals do, and I would like to see pedophiles [all predatory deviants, for that matter] put down. Whether or not they are both born the way they are I could not say.

[thoughtomator]

Anyone who sees pre-pubescent children as sexual targets and acts on it needs to be put down like the animals they are. It may be a mental illness, but that's immaterial against the fact that they are a clear and present danger to every individual who is a child, is responsible for the protection of a child, or may want to have a child in the future. If I caught one of those fuckers in the act, I would pop him right then and there and be glad to be tried by my peers for the justifiability thereof.

[otherone]

False, every study of abuses in the Church, including the John Jay report have found that celibacy was not a factor. Also studies have shown that the celibacy requirements in the Latin Rite of the Church have no effect on the incidence of homosexuals, pedophiles, or other sexual deviants within the priesthood.

Lol.
I didn't write that celibacy creates sexual perversion. Celibacy is not chastity; What I'm referring to is the condition of being "unmarried". Many times in Medieval society a non-first born son was given as a "donation" to the church. Many times those forced to enter the priesthood were those with non-traditional sexual inclinations. Celibacy didn't "make" them that way. They were like that before entering the priesthood. The church was something of a deviant club.

[cheapseats]

Funny, and I thought responsibility was the actor's alone.

Are we talking about LIBERTARIANISM or CATHOLICISM?



Otherwise responsibility never stays put, rather climbs until it reaches the top?

Well...YES.

If Decider-people issue dictates/directives/orders from a position of "valid"/recognized Authority, responsibility "climbs" to them. Which is NOT to say that order-takers are automatically exonerated.

"Naturally", VIP's can use their cash & cache to PASS THE BUCK.

[bolil]

Lol.
I didn't write that celibacy creates sexual perversion. Celibacy is not chastity; What I'm referring to is the condition of being "unmarried". Many times in Medieval society a non-first born son was given as a "donation" to the church. Many times those forced to enter the priesthood were those with non-traditional sexual inclinations. Celibacy didn't "make" them that way. They were like that before entering the priesthood. The church was something of a deviant club.

Hmmm. Celibacy is closely related to chastity. As regards a priest of the Catholic persuasion celibacy IS chastity.

[otherone]

Pretty much the Catholic view on homosexuality.

It's not a sin to be a homosexual or to have homosexual attractions, it is a sin to act on them.



Pretty much the Catholic view on ALL lustful thoughts, be they **** or heterosexual. Fornication is a sin regardless of gender.

[TokenLibertarianGuy]

Pretty much the Catholic view on ALL lustful thoughts, be they **** or heterosexual. Fornication is a sin regardless of gender.

That is correct. All sexual activity outside of marriage is sin. That's not just the Catholic view, but the general Christian view even though many Protestant denominations have perverted that teaching (as is usual for Protestants).

[Anti Federalist]

Not all homosexuals are attracted to children. There is a clear difference between homosexuality and pedophila. One is usually consenting adults doing what they wish, while the other preys on vulnerable children.

Hence why I really do not care what homosexuals do, and I would like to see pedophiles [all predatory deviants, for that matter] put down. Whether or not they are both born the way they are I could not say.

And I think just the opposite is going to happen, that there will be more and more open "acceptance" of this behavior as time goes by.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying I'm in favor of that, just saying that I, IMO, see no way around it, having embarked on a course of action that sets the framework and precedent for it's acceptance.

It's amazing how far social trends can be pushed in just 30 years, what I've witnessed in just my lifetime.

As I've often mentioned, 30-40 years ago two men smoking/sharing cigarettes was considered normal, routine and unremarkable, while two men smoking dick was repulsive, shocking and shunned.

[otherone]

Hmmm. Celibacy is closely related to chastity. As regards a priest of the Catholic persuasion celibacy IS chastity.

Huh? Are you talking about ideally, or in practice?

[cheapseats]

Lol.
I didn't write that celibacy creates sexual perversion. Celibacy is not chastity; What I'm referring to is the condition of being "unmarried". Many times in Medieval society a non-first born son was given as a "donation" to the church. Many times those forced to enter the priesthood were those with non-traditional sexual inclinations. Celibacy didn't "make" them that way. They were like that before entering the priesthood. The church was something of a deviant club.



Vatican calls for celibacy training to stop paedophile priests

James Bone Rome
Published at 12:01AM, March 21 2012

A Vatican mission to Ireland has concluded that would-be priests should be given special training to prevent child abuse.

Visiting Vatican investigators called for a “more systematic preparation for a life of priestly celibacy”. They recommended that Irish seminaries “include in the academic programme in-depth information on matters of child protection, with increased pastoral attention to victims of sexual abuse and their families”.

The report also called for “more consistent admission criteria” for men studying for the priesthood to weed out potential abusers.

The Vatican “visitators” toured Ireland in the wake of bitter accusations that the Catholic Church covered up hundreds of cases of child abuse by priests spanning decades.

The scandal has caused the worst deterioration ever in relations between the Church and the Irish State, culminating with the withdrawal of Ireland’s ambassador to the Holy See.

Today’s report compiled the findings of seven teams of Vatican-appointed Church leaders who visited four Archdioceses across Ireland, after Pope Benedict XVI promised an investigation into the scandal.

“With a great sense of pain and shame, it must be acknowledged that within the Christian community innocent young people were abused by clerics ... to whose care they had been entrusted, while those who should have exercised vigilance often failed to do so,” the report said...


http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/faith/article3358101.ece

[otherone]

That is correct. All sexual activity outside of marriage is sin.

As are some within the confines of marriage. I suffered through many years of Catholic dogma.

[otherone]

The report also called for “more consistent admission criteria” for men studying for the priesthood to weed out potential abusers.

yup. Now the church has to get off it's knees and turn to modern methods of analysis. There are many young men who struggle with their sexuality and believe they can run from it by joining the church. We see how that works out for them. Many times the future abusers don't realize what they are capable of.

[bolil]

Huh? Are you talking about ideally, or in practice?


both. A Catholic priest is married to the church. Chastity, as regards the Catholic belief, is taking actions that are appropriate to ones relation to another. A Catholic priest, therefore, can only be chaste when celibate because he is married to the church. A married person that is Catholic is chaste when performing any action intended to arouse their spouse, and only their spouse.

[TokenLibertarianGuy]

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/faith/article3358101.ece

What's your point? It shows that celibacy is not a cause of sexual deviancy. It's saying the Church is going to be more selective to make sure they don't put people who already have a predisposition for sexual deviancy from being admitted in the first place.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Not all homosexuals are attracted to children. There is a clear difference between homosexuality and pedophila. One is usually consenting adults doing what they wish, while the other preys on vulnerable children.

Hence why I really do not care what homosexuals do, and I would like to see pedophiles [all predatory deviants, for that matter] put down. Whether or not they are both born the way they are I could not say.

OK - so you want complete genocide of the Islamic world - got it!

-t

[bolil]

Are we talking about LIBERTARIANISM or CATHOLICISM?




Well...YES.

If Decider-people issue dictates/directives/orders from a position of "valid"/recognized Authority, responsibility "climbs" to them. Which is NOT to say that order-takers are automatically exonerated.

"Naturally", VIP's can use their cash & cache to PASS THE BUCK.

Both, actually. So basically, what your saying is, that authority bears full/partial responsibility for the actions of individuals?

I don't see it that way, I subscribe to the Spooner train of thought in this: Responsibility is the actors' alone.

If I use my speech and it incites a riot, but I take no part in the riot, I am innocent. The guilt lies with the rioters.

The fact that a thread involving scumbag pederasts became about Catholicism speaks volumes.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Anyone who sees pre-pubescent children as sexual targets and acts on it needs to be put down like the animals they are. It may be a mental illness, but that's immaterial against the fact that they are a clear and present danger to every individual who is a child, is responsible for the protection of a child, or may want to have a child in the future. If I caught one of those fuckers in the act, I would pop him right then and there and be glad to be tried by my peers for the justifiability thereof.

U too

-t

[kcchiefs6465]

And I think just the opposite is going to happen, that there will be more and more open "acceptance" of this behavior as time goes by.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying I'm in favor of that, just saying that I, IMO, see no way around it, having embarked on a course of action that sets the framework and precedent for it's acceptance.

It's amazing how far social trends can be pushed in just 30 years, what I've witnessed in just my lifetime.

As I've often mentioned, 30-40 years ago two men smoking/sharing cigarettes was considered normal, routine and unremarkable, while two men smoking dick was repulsive, shocking and shunned.
Ahh. I see your point. I believe there was a push for pedophilia to be accepted in the '70s? [NAMBLA?] I was not around at the time but hopefully people were utterly disgusted and [ ] like the sick fucks they are. I see what you're saying though, I tend to think of it more as staying out of someone's personal business. [as long as there's no victim] That would include people smoking cigarettes, though many of this generation seem to think they have some sort of right to dictate other's lives. So long as it is two consenting adults doing what they wish in their home, I really don't care. The difference for pedphilia to me, is the victim aspect. Both are repulsive [to me, at least] though I wouldn't attempt to legislate what consenting adults can and can't do. [so long as there's no victim] It is getting somewhat crazy with men wearing women's jeans and prancing around like girly fucks, but whatever. I must be getting old. :rolleyes: Not to mention you wouldn't last a day as a man in leggings at the school I went to.

[otherone]

What's your point? It shows that celibacy is not a cause of sexual deviancy. It's saying the Church is going to be more selective to make sure they don't put people who already have a predisposition for sexual deviancy from being admitted in the first place.

Put away your claws. He pointed out that the church attracts deviants.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Not all homosexuals are attracted to children. There is a clear difference between homosexuality and pedophila. One is usually consenting adults doing what they wish, while the other preys on vulnerable children.

Hence why I really do not care what homosexuals do, and I would like to see pedophiles [all predatory deviants, for that matter] put down. Whether or not they are both born the way they are I could not say.


Anyone who sees pre-pubescent children as sexual targets and acts on it needs to be put down like the animals they are. It may be a mental illness, but that's immaterial against the fact that they are a clear and present danger to every individual who is a child, is responsible for the protection of a child, or may want to have a child in the future. If I caught one of those fuckers in the act, I would pop him right then and there and be glad to be tried by my peers for the justifiability thereof.

RA, RA, RA 'MERICA! F' YEAH!

NUKE THOSE TOWEL HEADS!

:rolleyes:

-t

[TokenLibertarianGuy]

Put away your claws. He pointed out that the church attracts deviants.

It doesn't, though. The incidence of sexual abuse by priests is not higher than in the general population. In fact, it is lower than inside public schools and much lower than between family members.

[kcchiefs6465]

OK - so you want complete genocide of the Islamic world - got it!

-t
Lmao. Your logic escapes me. Are you saying that if a religion says it is okay to rape a child or fuck a goat then it suddenly becomes protected as politically correct? Or are you simply saying that because they are Muslims that they rape children? I would like to see a source, or simply, a clarification, of just what the fuck you are talking about.

Is there any correlation between child molestation and Muslims? I've known a few Muslims in my day and most of them were God-fearing honest men. I definitely didn't get the vibe that they raped children or that they wanted to rape children. The same with the Catholics I have met.

[otherone]

Chastity, as regards the Catholic belief, is taking actions that are appropriate to ones relation to another. A married person that is Catholic is chaste when performing any action intended to arouse their spouse, and only their spouse.

Within the catholic context, chastity is not simply how you relate to another. It's how you relate to God, and yourself. If one is chaste, one does not have lustful thoughts as well, even including lustful thoughts about one's spouse.

[kcchiefs6465]

RA, RA, RA 'MERICA! F' YEAH!

NUKE THOSE TOWEL HEADS!

:rolleyes:

-t
No offense, but you are a fucking idiot.

[TokenLibertarianGuy]

Within the catholic context, chastity is not simply how you relate to another. It's how you relate to God, and yourself. If one is chaste, one does not have lustful thoughts as well, even including lustful thoughts about one's spouse.

That's mostly true, but it should read not entertain lustful thoughts. Everyone has lustful thoughts, they are uncontrollable as we are all sinners. It's what we do with those thoughts that change them from a consequence of our fallen state to a sin. It's not a sin to notice a beautiful woman, but to entertain the thought of sleeping with her certainly is. Similarly it is not a sin to think about making love with your wife, but if that thought becomes just about pleasure and not about conception, love, or unity with your wife and solely about lust for pleasure then it becomes sinful.

[cheapseats]

I cannot see Liberty Forest, for all the THEOLOGICAL trees.

Which way to General Politics?

[itshappening]

If they choose to rape kids, and it can be proved beyond all reasonable doubt, kill em: with gas, with bullets, with blunt objects DOESN'T MATTER. I am not saying the state should kill them, maybe just hold them until said kid is old enough to pull a trigger or swing a baseball bat with the force required to fracture a skull, and that once kid now adult can decide whether to be merciful or not. If the person chooses mercy, and the sex offender is let free, if it offends again it is dead.

Chastity vows have nothing to do with this, and I hardly believe this is as widespread as it is played to be. I don't know what beef is between the secular authorities and the catholic church but there certainly is one.

Not all of them will act on their predatory urges and rape kids. Some will just fantasize about it and look at porn. This is problem with this kind of deviant behavior because - rightly - the porn is criminalized as well so to look at it online or trade with other pedo's is prohibited and for some of them will be difficult making it more likely they will rape a child.

Also the stigma attached to these urges prevents them coming forward to receive "treatment" which may include therapy or controlled access to pornography or other material in order to satisfy their predatory urges.

I don't know all the answers but I think the medical profession should look into this and conduct studies and offer advice to society on the best way forward. They could also develop a pedo drug to suppress urges although sexual urges are very difficult to control but it can't be beyond the realm of science

[tangent4ronpaul]

Not all homosexuals are attracted to children. There is a clear difference between homosexuality and pedophila. One is usually consenting adults doing what they wish, while the other preys on vulnerable children.

Hence why I really do not care what homosexuals do, and I would like to see pedophiles [all predatory deviants, for that matter] put down. Whether or not they are both born the way they are I could not say.

Islam - OK to marry as young as 5yo
You - KILL ALL PEDO'S!

DUH????

-t



Anyone who sees pre-pubescent children as sexual targets and acts on it needs to be put down like the animals they are. It may be a mental illness, but that's immaterial against the fact that they are a clear and present danger to every individual who is a child, is responsible for the protection of a child, or may want to have a child in the future. If I caught one of those fuckers in the act, I would pop him right then and there and be glad to be tried by my peers for the justifiability thereof.


Lmao. Your logic escapes me. Are you saying that if a religion says it is okay to rape a child or fuck a goat then it suddenly becomes protected as politically correct? Or are you simply saying that because they are Muslims that they rape children? I would like to see a source, or simply, a clarification, of just what the fuck you are talking about.

Is there any correlation between child molestation and Muslims? I've known a few Muslims in my day and most of them were God-fearing honest men. I definitely didn't get the vibe that they raped children or that they wanted to rape children. The same with the Catholics I have met.

[juleswin]

Then ALL Thieves, Fraudsters, Rapists and Murderers do not warrant punishment, but should be lavished with do-gooder diversionary programs for being "not right in the head, with no impulse control".


You know its not the same. Just think what will happen to you if being straight tomorrow was banned? assuming you are straight. I tend to agree with the Cardinal on this one. These people are most likely biological mistakes and even though I don't condone their desires, I do sympathize with em

[tangent4ronpaul]

It's their culture and religion - what part of that do you not get???

And you want to MURDER THEM for it because it upsets your sensibilities...

-t

[otherone]

You know its not the same. Just think what will happen to you if being straight tomorrow was banned? assuming you are straight. I tend to agree with the Cardinal on this one. These people are most likely biological mistakes and even though I don't condone their desires, I do sympathize with em

It doesn't matter if it's nature or nurture. If they can't control their behavior they are sociopaths. How is it that heterosexuals who are attracted to adults are able to keep their hands to themselves when need be, but pedophiles can't? Do you manipulate and molest women? And if you do, it's ok just because you find them attractive?

[itshappening]

There's nothing like a good old fashioned round of Democide.

Maybe we can put them in pedo concentration camps.

Better not accidentally look at a 17 year old topless girl on the internet. The police will label you a pedo and have you in one of those camps to be put down in a second..

Come on now...

[TokenLibertarianGuy]

There's nothing like a good old fashioned round of Democide.

Maybe we can put them in pedo concentration camps.

Better not accidentally look at a 17 year old topless girl on the internet. The police will label you a pedo and have you in one of those camps to be put down in a second..

Come on now...

That's not pedophilia, though. Pedophilia specifically refers to pre-pubescent children.

And honestly, I'd have no objections to putting pedophiles into concentration/labor camps to keep them away from children and at least make some use of them.

[kcchiefs6465]

Islam - OK to mary as young as 5yo
You - KILL ALL PEDO'S!

DUH????

-t
Hmm. Source? I would specifically want a section of the Qua'ran that states as much. Furthermore, even if it did, [which it doesn't] what does killing all Muslims have to do with some Muslims marrying children, or rather what you are probably referring to, arranged marriages? Do all Muslims rape 5 year olds? The ones that do should be put down. [though I'd imagine the rates aren't any higher than with any other creed]

You taking offense to the suggestion that child rapists or more specifically, pedophiles, should be killed is somewhat puzzling. I'm really just confused as to even respond to you. 'Merica, fuck yeah? What do you mean??? I'm somewhat amazed at your train of thought. And to top it all off, you add a DUH. Lmao. Your posts are as damn irrational as they get. I don't know any time where a 'duh' would be more ill placed.

[cheapseats]

You know its not the same.

No, what I know is NOT the same is the incessant floating of OH, SO PEOPLE CAN KILL TODDLERS/CHILDREN IF THEY ARE INCONVENIENT as comparable to abortion in the first trimester.

I do NOT buy that sexual perversion is an "uncontrollable impulse steeped in sickness" while OTHER skullduggery is not. Y'know those ASSHOLES that are accumulating mind-numbing fortunes via unscrupulous business practices and the outright purchase of official influence & favor? Sick pups, every one of 'em..."just" acting on their natures.



Just think what will happen to you if being straight tomorrow was banned? assuming you are straight.

Presumably, you are suggesting that people could be SCARED/PUNISHED/DIVERTED into homosexuality.

Which is NOT AT ALL the same as "imagine you are a Pedophile, and 'suddenly' pedophilia is banned".



I tend to agree with the Cardinal on this one. These people are most likely biological mistakes...

If one accepts on Faith that God doesn't make mistakes, then dealing righteously with Pedophiles must be an ORDAINED challenge to Society.



...and even though I don't condone their desires, I do sympathize with em

I sympathize with the children. Pedophiles can go to hell...and WILL, I believe.

[kcchiefs6465]

There's nothing like a good old fashioned round of Democide.

Maybe we can put them in pedo concentration camps.

Better not accidentally look at a 17 year old topless girl on the internet. The police will label you a pedo and have you in one of those camps to be put down in a second..

Come on now...
I believe you have read my posts, have you not? Or is that post directed towards someone else?

[sailingaway]

so long as they don't act on it, sure. But if they act on it, it is a crime.

[itshappening]

That's not pedophilia, though. Pedophilia specifically refers to pre-pubescent children.

And honestly, I'd have no objections to putting pedophiles into concentration/labor camps to keep them away from children and at least make some use of them.

So you want a massive police state to find and round up pedo's, send informants into their underground pornography trading networks and put them in concentration camps? And you don't think the police will pick up and accuse the wrong people and set traps etc?

Only a small minority will rape or abuse children and they're not even executed for those crimes.

[tangent4ronpaul]

That's not pedophilia, though. Pedophilia specifically refers to pre-pubescent children.

And honestly, I'd have no objections to putting pedophiles into concentration/labor camps to keep them away from children and at least make some use of them.

OK - so just to be clear, you would have no problem with doing what we did to Japanese US citizens in WWII to Muslims, just because their cultural beliefs of age of consent and marrage are different? Yes?

-t

[kcchiefs6465]

OK - so just to be clear, you would have no problem with doing what we did to Japanese US citizens in WWII to Muslims, just because their cultural beliefs of age of consent and marrage are different? Yes?

-t
How many Muslims do you know? How many are married to five year or seven year old girls? How many profess their culture to be as much? But, hypothetically let's say some person comes and says he saw God. He writes a book that says he must only have sex with children. Are you now of the belief that somehow it is legitimate, or rather, should be tolerated? [not to mention that you have no concept whatsoever of the cultural traditions and Islamic teachings you propose to have- rather you are simply regurgitating that bullshit Natgeo article]

Yes, pedophiles should be killed. I do not apologize if that offends you.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Hmm. Source? I would specifically want a section of the Qua'ran that states as much. Furthermore, even if it did, [which it doesn't] what does killing all Muslims have to do with some Muslims marrying children, or rather what you are probably referring to, arranged marriages? Do all Muslims rape 5 year olds? The ones that do should be put down. [though I'd imagine the rates aren't any higher than with any other creed]

You taking offense to the suggestion that child rapists or more specifically, pedophiles, should be killed is somewhat puzzling. I'm really just confused as to even respond to you. 'Merica, fuck yeah? What do you mean??? I'm somewhat amazed at your train of thought. And to top it all off, you add a DUH. Lmao. Your posts are as damn irrational as they get. I don't know any time where a 'duh' would be more ill placed.

not sure if it was the seed artical to this thread or another recent one but the marage to a 5 year old was in it. I suspect it is not the norm.

never the less - it is their CULTURE! THEIR RELIGION! and you want to KILL THEM FOR IT!

-t

[kcchiefs6465]

So you want a massive police state to find and round up pedo's, send informants into their underground pornography trading networks and put them in concentration camps? And you don't think the police will pick up and accuse the wrong people and set traps etc?

Only a small minority will rape or abuse children and they're not even executed for those crimes.
That is the problem.

[juleswin]

It doesn't matter if it's nature or nurture. If they can't control their behavior they are sociopaths. How is it that heterosexuals who are attracted to adults are able to keep their hands to themselves when need be, but pedophiles can't? Do you manipulate and molest women? And if you do, it's ok just because you find them attractive?


Easy, I am not saying pedophiles who abuse kids should be free, the main point of my post is that I believe pedophilia is a mental illness. You also asked how is it that heterosexual non pedophiles are able to keep our hands to ourselves when pedophiles cannot? Again it is not exactly the same thing, imagine what will happen to you if you cannot ever have sex with the people you are attracted to and you also cannot jack off to images you are attracted to.

Its very unfortunate but the way we are dealing with these people is not working

[kcchiefs6465]

not sure if it was the seed artical to this thread or another recent one but the marage to a 5 year old was in it. I suspect it is not the norm.

never the less - it is their CULTURE! THEIR RELIGION! and you want to KILL THEM FOR IT!

-t
It was the nat geo article about arranged marriages... I fucking knew it. [and I didn't read it] You are talking about sovereign States. Would I personally support killing child rapists in other countries... yes. That is no business of the USG though. And I am not specifically aware of all of the circumstances surrounding the arranged marriages. I recently saw an article of an 8 year old boy marrying an 80 year old woman. I do not agree. I don't imagine it to be a sexual thing as much as a religious thing. [though I could be wrong] I still fail to see how advocating the death of pedophiles, here, somehow relates to the entire extermination of a religion, there. Muslims here [even devout] do not partake in arranged child marriages. It is probably repulsive to the majority of Muslims. Especially here, which is where I'm talking about.

[otherone]

Easy, I am not saying pedophiles who abuse kids should be free, the main point of my post is that I believe pedophilia is a mental illness. You also asked how is it that heterosexual non pedophiles are able to keep our hands to ourselves when pedophiles cannot? Again it is not exactly the same thing, imagine what will happen to you if you cannot ever have sex with the people you are attracted to and you also cannot jack off to images you are attracted to.

Its very unfortunate but the way we are dealing with these people is not working

You do realize that there are millions of adults who are not in sexual relationships, and who don't use pornography? We aren't animals, Jules.

[TokenLibertarianGuy]

Is it me or do tangent and cheapseats have the exact same writing style with unnecessary and incessant capitalizations and overuse of punctuation/hyphenation?

[TokenLibertarianGuy]

You do realize that there are millions of adults who are not in sexual relationships, and who don't use pornography? We aren't animals, Jules.

I thought I was the only one.

[tangent4ronpaul]

How many Muslims do you know? How many are married to five year or seven year old girls? How many profess their culture to be as much? But, hypothetically let's say some person comes and says he saw God. He writes a book that says he must only have sex with children. Are you now of the belief that somehow it is legitimate, or rather, should be tolerated? [not to mention that you have no concept whatsoever of the cultural traditions and Islamic teachings you propose to have- rather you are simply regurgitating that bullshit Natgeo article]

Yes, pedophiles should be killed. I do not apologize if that offends you.

5 and 7 I think are very rare - but this is a thing to bond families and build business.

I dated a Iranian girl and am quite familiar with the culture.

Generally, it is post pudecent, nut still "underage" and arranged...

-t

[juleswin]

You do realize that there are millions of adults who are not in sexual relationships, and who don't use pornography? We aren't animals, Jules.

And also never had sex? Sorry but I don't think there are millions of those people and my guess is that the few that are in that rank are those people who have grown tired of the opposite sex, people who are in their old age and have gotten tired of it. Please dont get me wrong, I do not in anyway support the act of pedophilia but I can still put myself in their shoes and see how awful it would be for the kind of sex I enjoy to be outlawed by everyone.

[TokenLibertarianGuy]

And also never had sex? Sorry but I don't think there are millions of those people and my guess is that the few that are in that rank are those people who have grown tired of the opposite sex, people who are in their old age and have gotten tired of it. Please dont get me wrong, I do not in anyway support the act of pedophilia but I can still put myself in their shoes and see how awful it would be for the kind of sex I enjoy to be outlawed by everyone.

Or the millions who wait until marriage...

[tangent4ronpaul]

It was the nat geo article about arranged marriages... I fucking knew it. [and I didn't read it] You are talking about sovereign States. Would I personally support killing child rapists in other countries... yes. That is no business of the USG though. And I am not specifically aware of all of the circumstances surrounding the arranged marriages. I recently saw an article of an 8 year old boy marrying an 80 year old woman. I do not agree. I don't imagine it to be a sexual thing as much as a religious thing. [though I could be wrong] I still fail to see how advocating the death of pedophiles, here, somehow relates to the entire extermination of a religion, there. Muslims here [even devout] do not partake in arranged child marriages. It is probably repulsive to the majority of Muslims. Especially here, which is where I'm talking about.

It's not your fucking culture! Say I am Islamic and I want to get in with a business supplier. So I marry his 5yo daughter. My herum(sp) takes care of the kid and in maybe 12-14 years she might be a good fuck? Just saying... But it has to has to do with how connections are made in the middle east, not about fucking very young children - don't you get that yet?


Is it me or do tangent and cheapseats have the exact same writing style with unnecessary and incessant capitalizations and overuse of punctuation/hyphenation?

We are not the same person.

-t

[sailingaway]

Except that I've read a lot of stories where they don't wait until the girl is older. In fact, sex with a girl over 2 in some of those cultures is common law marriage, I have read. And to say you understand that for the guy it is their culture ignores what it is for the child.

I'm not saying invade sovereignty to impose our views violently, because that would be OUR wrong. But do I have less problem with the death penalty in that case than in others?.... well, I guess even then the question of evidence arises. Otherwise, not so much.

[juleswin]

Except that I've read a lot of stories where they don't wait until the girl is older. In fact, sex with a girl over 2 in some of those cultures is common law marriage, I have read. And to say you understand that for the guy it is their culture ignores what it is for the child.

I'm not saying invade sovereignty to impose our views violently, because that would be OUR wrong. But do I have less problem with the death penalty in that case than in others?.... well, I guess even then the question of evidence arises. Otherwise, not so much.


And those stories you've read would be strange stories in people in those countries. I know many cultures including mine where marriages are sometimes arranged pre teen. Even with those arrangements, the bride and groom continue to live with their respective parents until they are old enough.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Except that I've read a lot of stories where they don't wait until the girl is older. In fact, sex with a girl over 2 in some of those cultures is common law marriage, I have read. And to say you understand that for the guy it is their culture ignores what it is for the child.

I'm not saying invade sovereignty to impose our views violently, because that would be OUR wrong. But do I have less problem with the death penalty in that case than in others?.... well, I guess even then the question of evidence arises. Otherwise, not so much.

"And to say you understand that for the guy it is their culture ignores what it is for the child."

not sure what you are trying to say.

second para says KILL TOWELHEADS because they do not meet out morals! to me...

as young as 2? srsly????

I imagine some that don't wait. YES - camera's in EVERY bedroom! - the state MUST ENFORCE THIS!

:rolleyes:


-t

[sailingaway]

And those stories you've read would be strange stories in people in those countries. I know many cultures including mine where marriages are sometimes arranged pre teen. Even with those arrangements, the bride and groom continue to live with their respective parents until they are old enough.

That isn't paedophilia, so I wouldn't consider it part of this topic. That is arranged marriage.

[sailingaway]

"And to say you understand that for the guy it is their culture ignores what it is for the child."

not sure what you are trying to say.

second para says KILL TOWELHEADS because they do not meet out morals! to me...

as young as 2? srsly????

I imagine some that don't wait. YES - camera's in EVERY bedroom! - the state MUST ENFORCE THIS!


-t

I said nothing about cameras. I spoke of the rights in my view of the child, and my personal feelings about the act.

"LILL TOWELHEADS', seriously?

[kcchiefs6465]

It's not your fucking culture! Say I am Islamic and I want to get in with a business supplier. So I marry his 5yo daughter. My herum(sp) takes care of the kid and in maybe 12-14 years she might be a good fuck? Just saying... But it has to has to do with how connections are made in the middle east, not about fucking very young children - don't you get that yet?

-t
I still fail to see how advocating the death of pedophiles, here, somehow relates to the entire extermination of a religion, there. Muslims here [even devout] do not partake in arranged child marriages.

I do not think I could spell it out any simpler. Maybe you should perhaps change your previous posts to something that follows a logical train of thought, and I could 'get it' more easily.

[tangent4ronpaul]

I still fail to see how advocating the death of pedophiles, here, somehow relates to the entire extermination of a religion, there. Muslims here [even devout] do not partake in arranged child marriages.

I do not think I could spell it out any simpler. Maybe you should perhaps change your previous posts to something that follows a logical train of thought, and I could 'get it' more easily.

Arranged marriages are very common in the Muslim world. As far as I can tell, they are the norm and under US law most would be considered "pedophilia".

-t

[itshappening]

Marco Rubio tweeted this story... pedo's taking vacations to cuba:

-
The 50-something Canadian steps inside a downtown bar, his left arm wound tightly around the waist of a young prostitute as he flashes a sly grin. A winking bartender welcomes him like an old friend.

“It’s hard not to be inspired by this,” Michael says, looking over his companion for the night. “And that,” he adds, his eyes pointing to one of the other young women in the bar. “This is the promised land.”

Michael, a retiree from Vancouver Island, spends up to six months a year in Havana, where he says he has discovered easy access to young women willing to ignore age differences — in exchange for as little as $30 for the night.

Foreign tourists, especially Canadians and Spaniards, are travelling to Cuba in surprising numbers for sex — and not just with adult prostitutes. They are finding underage girls and boys, a joint investigation by The Toronto Star and El Nuevo Herald has found.

Havana’s conspicuous scenes of street-level prostitution are the outward face of a hidden prostitution trade in minors, some as young as four, some with families complicit in their exploitation, the newspapers found.

http://m.miamiherald.com/mh/db_274907/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=N6BZv5LT

[kcchiefs6465]

Except that I've read a lot of stories where they don't wait until the girl is older. In fact, sex with a girl over 2 in some of those cultures is common law marriage, I have read. And to say you understand that for the guy it is their culture ignores what it is for the child.

I'm not saying invade sovereignty to impose our views violently, because that would be OUR wrong. But do I have less problem with the death penalty in that case than in others?.... well, I guess even then the question of evidence arises. Otherwise, not so much.
I have read a little bit about it and some of it seems very tragic. My view transcends cultural lines. Anyone sexually victimizing a child should be put down. In the case of someone raping a baby more extreme measures should be used. I am not ignoring the tragedy of the children in many of these situations by acknowledging the culture that makes it more acceptable. There are extreme cases I am sure, but I would like to believe that raping a 2 year old baby transcends cultural norms. Perhaps in such a backwards place, stoning would be allowed- it would surely be approptiate to me, at least.

I'm not aware of all the religous aspects or cultural norms of these various areas. But anyone sexually victimizing a child should be put down. Not that I am proposing that we go over there to try and change their ways. Some efforts are more futile than others.

[kcchiefs6465]

Marco Rubio tweeted this story... pedo's taking vacations to cuba:


So what is your proposal? What the hell does pedophiles going to foreign countries to rape child sex slaves have to do with anything?

In case you wondered, they should be put down too. The sick fucks.

[kcchiefs6465]

Arranged marriages are very common in the Muslim world. As far as I can tell, they are the norm and under US law most would be considered "pedophilia".

-t
There are Cambodian fathers who build sex huts for their 11-13 year old daughters. They further 'encourage' them to sleep around with boys until they find one they like. So tf what.

[sailingaway]

So what is your proposal? What the hell does pedophiles going to foreign countries to rape child sex slaves have to do with anything?

In case you wondered, they should be put down too. The sick fucks.

The current case we have on that point is Menendez, accurately or not. And I don't have to worry about whether the law forbidding it is sound or not as a federal law, because he voted for it himself.

[AFPVet]

There's a very easy cure for pedophilia:

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/qctimes.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/03/a03c2578-23d3-11e2-b158-0019bb2963f4/5091eb7c38ae6.preview-620.jpg

Or these :)

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT3Fo-63UN8Ax6wOQJLIABEsi6jp-xXgE4Ztpd5F1YLCzgs7WW1xQ

[squarepusher]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/16/man-accused-killing-woman-raping-child-in-new-york-mall-carjacking/

Police: NY man cut ankle monitor before killing mom, raping girl in carjacking

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/16/man-accused-killing-woman-raping-child-in-new-york-mall-carjacking/#ixzz2NjmP27FX

[tangent4ronpaul]

and not just with adult prostitutes. They are finding underage girls and boys, a joint investigation by The Toronto Star and El Nuevo Herald has found.

Glad they did their "field work" - must have been "fun" :rolleyes:

I do not believe 4yo prostitutes exist. That's BS!

-t

[TokenLibertarianGuy]

Or these :)

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT3Fo-63UN8Ax6wOQJLIABEsi6jp-xXgE4Ztpd5F1YLCzgs7WW1xQ

Never been a 10mm fan, but I do believe in freedom of choice when it comes to ammo ;)

[MelissaWV]

if you act upon the "illness" it is very criminal you fuck.

This thread should have been resolved with this post.

The thoughts these people entertain are, in fact, part of a mental illness. The actions that some then take are, in fact, criminal.

[tangent4ronpaul]

There are Cambodian fathers who build sex huts for their 11-13 year old daughters. They further 'encourage' them to sleep around with boys until they find one they like. So tf what.

Ref?

[kcchiefs6465]

Ref?
Lol. My point was that it has nothing to do with anything. Here's an article on it though.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2174389/Cambodian-fathers-build-sex-huts-13-year-old-daughters.html

[tangent4ronpaul]

In case you wondered, they should be put down too. The sick fucks.


Or these :)

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT3Fo-63UN8Ax6wOQJLIABEsi6jp-xXgE4Ztpd5F1YLCzgs7WW1xQ

So glad you both are so willing to be Judge, Jury and Executioner...

Umm - wait isn't there a word for that? Ah Yes! - VIGILANTE!

You should both be so proud - FUCK DUE PROCESS!

:rolleyes:

-t

[satchelmcqueen]

all i know is, people always protect their own kind. a cheating wife will make one realize this in the most horrific way. any priest who goes along with this "illness" crap knows something somewhere id bet.

[kcchiefs6465]

So glad you both are so willing to be Judge, Jury and Executioner...

Umm - wait isn't there a word for that? Ah Yes! - VIGILANTE!

You should both be so proud - FUCK DUE PROCESS!

:rolleyes:

-t
In the case of a family member being abused, I would be. And I would tell a jury dead to their face why I did it.

As to 'Fuck due process,' no one has said that. [except just now, for the rare instance that someone abused a family member and I can get my hands on them before the cops]

They would have due process. And when enough evidence is found to determine they did the crime, [DNA, for example] they would be put down.

[thoughtomator]

So glad you both are so willing to be Judge, Jury and Executioner...

Umm - wait isn't there a word for that? Ah Yes! - VIGILANTE!

You should both be so proud - FUCK DUE PROCESS!

:rolleyes:

-t


You're hysterical at this point. Why are you so indifferent to the right of children not to be subject to the physical violence of sexual predation? There's no witch hunt here - only a resolve to treat violent offenses against liberty appropriately.

I don't see how you can argue with the assertion that if you witness a child being raped, that you should step in and take the perp out with deadly force. The argument is not that due process should not be followed if it's not a stop-a-crime-in-progress scenario.

If we are to preserve our liberty, we need to be prepared to deal with severe breaches of the peace appropriately. Sexual predation on children is one of the most severe breaches of peace there is.

[AFPVet]

Never been a 10mm fan, but I do believe in freedom of choice when it comes to ammo ;)

Indeed... these are the FBI watered down loads, but still do a really good job. Double Tap 10mm loads really supercharge it's performance. 10mm should be loaded hot... just like the old Norma :). My Glock 20 loves the hotter loads!

Too bad they don't still make the 10mm Black Talon 200gr... that was the best FBI load they made.

[tangent4ronpaul]

In the case of a family member being abused, I would be. And I would tell a jury dead to their face why I did it.

As to 'Fuck due process,' no one has said that. [except just now, for the rare instance that someone abused a family member and I can get my hands on them before the cops]

They would have due process. And when enough evidence is found to determine they did the crime, [DNA, for example] they would be put down.


You're hysterical at this point. Why are you so indifferent to the right of children not to be subject to the physical violence of sexual predation? There's no witch hunt here - only a resolve to treat violent offenses against liberty appropriately.

You have both said fuck due process - though not in so many words.
They believe in cultural and social/business arrangements that you do not believe in - and you want to KILL them for their traditions.

YOU SUCK!

-t

[kcchiefs6465]

You have both said fuck due process - though not in so many words.
They believe in cultural and social/business arrangements that you do not believe in - and you want to KILL them for their traditions.

YOU SUCK!

-t
I really am at a loss for words.

Post #104 best sums this up.

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii361/fate-icons/GIF%20files/supernaturaldeanwhat.gif

[tangent4ronpaul]

and I paged through for that....

LOL!

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

I have a very similar view of you

-t

[kcchiefs6465]

and I paged through for that....

LOL!

-t
Lmao. :D

Seriously though, me wanting the laws as such that pedophiles [child molesters and rapists] can be killed here [you know, after they are convicted] somehow has turned into me wanting to kill every Muslim. Even though, the large majority of Muslims aren't pedophiles and even though I have clarified 10 different times. I really am at such a loss for words as how to even respond to your previous post I quoted. I am amazed at your absurd leaps to conclusion and lack of reading comprehension. It's on par with Slutter McGee or fire11. Fire11 seemed more cogent in his thought process though. I don't know what else to say but wow.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Yawn...

You have stated your vigilantly tendencies many times.

-t

[alucard13mmfmj]

Japan must be filled with pedophiles...

http://kevo.dasaku.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/429a8c6c3db4dcb60fd7daa774f66c95.jpg

[thoughtomator]

You have both said fuck due process - though not in so many words.

It was not "in so many words" because it was entirely you wanting to read something into it that is not actually there.



They believe in cultural and social/business arrangements that you do not believe in - and you want to KILL them for their traditions.

YOU SUCK!

-t

If the tradition is violence against innocents, then every advocate of liberty is compelled to stand against it. I think if we took a poll here it would decisively be that you suck, not me.

[jkob]

'Mental illness' or not, it makes no difference. I would imagine many dangerous criminals commit their acts due to some innate sickness or trauma in their lives, that does not excuse their behavior or mean we should tolerate their existence in society. A pedophile who shows predatory behavior is a threat to society and must be removed from it. Would anybody advocate on the behalf of murderers?

[kcchiefs6465]

'Mental illness' or not, it makes no difference. I would imagine many dangerous criminals commit their acts due to some innate sickness or trauma in their lives, that does not excuse their behavior or mean we should tolerate their existence in society. A pedophile who shows predatory behavior is a threat to society and must be removed from it. Would anybody advocate on the behalf of murderers?
No more, no less. I would think everyone would agree with this. The next question would be what to do with them? Should we incarcerate them, paying 50,000 dollars a year, giving them a college education, treating their medical illnesses, or should they simply be put down? I personally would say the latter. My justification is that I really don't believe they can be rehabilitated. With many of their crimes I do not believe they deserve to walk freely in society.

I agree that whether or not it is a mental illness makes no difference. [With mental retardation a case could be made that they are acting within their own mental capacity] Many killers or predators have mental illnesses. That's what makes them so dangerous. They often times have no regard for anything but themselves and act on impulse.

[MelissaWV]

'Mental illness' or not, it makes no difference. I would imagine many dangerous criminals commit their acts due to some innate sickness or trauma in their lives, that does not excuse their behavior or mean we should tolerate their existence in society. A pedophile who shows predatory behavior is a threat to society and must be removed from it. Would anybody advocate on the behalf of murderers?

People do all the time, actually. A great number of people who commit the most famous crimes do have a mental illness or two. For each of them, there are oodles of others with that same mental illness who do no harm. Read the topic again. The thoughts themselves --- are in fact part of a mental issue, no? Once those thoughts become actions, it does not matter much what motivated them. Maybe they aren't even sexually attracted towards children, but are just sadists who want to do the nastiest thing they can think of. Maybe they are sociopaths. Maybe they want to commit these acts just to do so, and take no delight in it, just looking at it clinically.

What matters is action, and just because someone thinks something awful does not mean they will act on it.

[jkob]

I do not agree that they should be executed, the problems with the death penalty is the same for them as it is everyone else. The burden of incarcerating pedophiles and other violent offenders would be much more tolerable if we didn't lock up so many non-violent drug offenders.

[bolil]

Not a threat to society, a pedophile that displays a willingness to rape a child has, through action, earned death. Due process and all.

Obviously such a thing needs to be proven beyond ALL reasonable doubt.

[Tod]

There is a debate about pedo's in the medical profession. They are saying, like the cardinal, that the men cannot help their attractions. So what's the answer? let them have access to porn of that variety which is also banned and a criminal offense or watch them abuse kids?


How about, for someone who is unable to resist their desires, a choice: castration or life in prison w/ no chance of parole? (I'm making an assumption here that castration would remove the drive in addition to the "performance", but maybe that is an incorrect assumption.)

[Ranger29860]

Maybe I just don't get it but from that article I see no where, where he said they should not be punished. HE just said we need to look at a possible medical treatment for what he and medical world is calling a disorder. So if a person does molest a child then send them to jail obviously but also provide a basis for treatment within prison or at least explore treatment options or idea's. While it stands right now is they go to prison stay there for a few years get out and do it again.

Not to mention as it stands today if a person who comes forward saying they are sexually attracted to kids , but have never once acted on it we immediately assume he is going to molest a child so we view the disorder as just a criminal waiting to happen when that most assuredly is not always the case.

As for some of the homosexual = pedophile talk I am seeing , you that are doing it should really get a new line of reasoning, that is just bigoted talk from the 50's. Pedophiles are not attracted to sex they are attracted to age. Not the mention there has been NO correlation found between homosexuality and pedophilia and the lie that there is a connection comes from a much darker time in the LBGT communities history.

[cheapseats]

As for some of the homosexual = pedophile talk I am seeing , you that are doing it should really get a new line of reasoning, that is just bigoted talk from the 50's

For my part, I do NOT equate homosexuality with pedophilia.

Homosexuality is SEPARATELY an issue. Selective outrage over ABORTION is separately an issue.

It "simply" is not possible to talk about CATHOLIC BULLSHIT without talking about PEDOPHILIA (child molestation, abuse of power, obstruction of justice) & HOMOSEXUALITY (in-yer-face hypocrisy) & ABORTION (women's "rights", hypocrisy in view of okay-ness with war/collateral damage).



Pedophiles are not attracted to sex they are attracted to age.

I'm thinking that people cannot really say or know what goes on in others' minds, ESPECIALLY not sick-fuck minds. If pedophilia were about age and not sex, why not KIDNAP the kiddies . . . take 'em for a joyride, so to speak, then return them unharmed?

[AFPVet]

Never been a 10mm fan, but I do believe in freedom of choice when it comes to ammo ;)

Or, since I alternate between the 10mm and the .45, I can recommend these :)

http://www.bestpriceammo.com/media/Ammo/Speer/45GD230.jpg

[kcchiefs6465]

For my part, I do NOT equate homosexuality with pedophilia.

Homosexuality is SEPARATELY an issue. Selective outrage over ABORTION is separately an issue. It "simply" is not possible to talk about CATHOLIC BULLSHIT without talking about PEDOPHILIA (child molestation) & HOMOSEXUALITY (flagrant hypocrisy) & ABORTION (women's rights).



I'm thinking that people cannot really say or know what goes on in another's mind, ESPECIALLY not sick fuck minds. If pedophilia were "simply" about age and not sex, why not KIDNAP the kiddies . . . take 'em for a joyride, so to speak, then return them unharmed?
They would not be unharmed. [even if they were not molested, which I don't believe you are presuming?] In the instances they do kill the child it is usually because of a fear that they could be identified. Though some undoubtedly get pleasure from inflicting pain.

[kcchiefs6465]

Or, since I alternate between the 10mm and the .45, I can recommend these :)

I've been wanting to try out a 10mm. As I imagine, it is between a .40 and .45 in terms of recoil? Sounds like one hell of a round but I'd be worried about shortages.

[cheapseats]

They would not be unharmed. [even if they were not molested, which I don't believe you are presuming?]

You are so right. JOYRIDE, SO TO SPEAK does not adequately capture how NOT joyful it would be for the children. But they would be much much MUCH less traumatized without rape/torture/mayhem.



In the instances they do kill the child it is usually because of a fear that they could be identified.

Crazy like foxes.



Though some undoubtedly get pleasure from inflicting pain.

No doubt in MY mind.

[kcchiefs6465]

You are so right. JOYRIDE, SO TO SPEAK does not adequately capture how NOT joyful it would be for the children. But they would be much much MUCH less traumatized without rape/torture/mayhem.

My fault. My comment came after I misread the
Pedophiles are not attracted to sex they are attracted to age. part you were responding to.


To respond to Ranger, pedophiles are attracted sexually to children under 11. [apparently there are other designations for 11-14 and 15-17] They are not taking the kids merely to go sight-seeing. They are taking the kids to molest/rape them.

[cheapseats]

"I'm from Texas and in Texas we have the death penalty, and we use it. That's right, if you come to Texas and kill somebody, we will kill you back. That's our policy. Right now there's a bill in the Texas legislature that would speed up the execution process of those convicted of a heinous crime with more than three credible witnesses. If more than three people saw you do what you did, you don't sit on death row for 15 years Jack, you go straight to the front of the line. Other states are trying to abolish the death penalty. My state's puttin' in an express lane."

Ron White - Blue Collar Comedy Tour

[moostraks]

With this type of abuse the victim is often in an intimate situation with these people who are committing the crime. The abused child is taught they are responsible or for this behavior being inflicted upon them. When the abuser is killed for this act then you have caused even more damage to the victim. I do not believe any of you are grasping the level of trauma this whole process causes to the victim. You want a trial with solid evidence? What planet are you on? It will be difficult if not impossible to get the type of credible evidence necessary for a proper trial and have you any idea what it would be like for the underage victim?

[kcchiefs6465]

With this type of abuse the victim is often in an intimate situation with these people who are committing the crime. The abused child is taught they are responsible or for this behavior being inflicted upon them. When the abuser is killed for this act then you have caused even more damage to the victim. I do not believe any of you are grasping the level of trauma this whole process causes to the victim. You want a trial with solid evidence? What planet are you on? It will be difficult if not impossible to get the type of credible evidence necessary for a proper trial and have you any idea what it would be like for the underage victim?
In that instance, yes, it would cause more pain to the victim. I believe that the victim's perspective of what should or should not be done as a punishment should definitely be taken into account. I don't see the chances that someone who rapes a child, or molests someone, will be rehabilitated though. I'm of the belief that it will be just a matter of time before someone else is abused.

[RockEnds]

With this type of abuse the victim is often in an intimate situation with these people who are committing the crime. The abused child is taught they are responsible or for this behavior being inflicted upon them. When the abuser is killed for this act then you have caused even more damage to the victim. I do not believe any of you are grasping the level of trauma this whole process causes to the victim. You want a trial with solid evidence? What planet are you on? It will be difficult if not impossible to get the type of credible evidence necessary for a proper trial and have you any idea what it would be like for the underage victim?

I believe if you were interested in what we knew, you would ask instead of presuming.

[QueenB4Liberty]

In that instance, yes, it would cause more pain to the victim. I believe that the victim's perspective of what should or should not be done as a punishment should definitely be taken into account. I don't see the chances that someone who rapes a child, or molests someone, will be rehabilitated though. I'm of the belief that it will be just a matter of time before someone else is abused.


I just hope you mean anyone that rapes or molests someone should be put to death. Age shouldn't be a factor. Rape is rape.

[AFPVet]

I've been wanting to try out a 10mm. As I imagine, it is between a .40 and .45 in terms of recoil? Sounds like one hell of a round but I'd be worried about shortages.

In the Glock 20, the full powered 180gr-200gr loads kick just like the 230gr loads out of a Sig P220—so it's really not that bad. The 10mm loads are just louder with more flash. I bought all of mine through Double Tap back when they were $20-25 for a box of 50.

[PaulConventionWV]

The best you can do is punish them severely and hope that they learn to control their stupid urges.

Or you lock them up for life or just kill them.

I, apparently, have much more faith in humanity than most people in this thread. According to you guys, mental disorders are incurable, and evils can never be corrected from within. I wish I had known that before I cured my anxiety and depression with self-help therapy (don't laugh). Therapy gets a bad rap on here, but I don't mean the kind where you sit and listen to a psychologist lecture you on why you need psychotropic drugs. There is a lot of useful therapy. You can cure just about any state of mind, including who you are attracted to, with the right amount of therapy. Gays don't like to admit that, but yes, it can be done. All it is is unlearning the undesirable behavior and reinforcing the desirable behaviors. If you think negative thoughts, you will be sad and depressed because you are in the habit of interpreting the world in a sad and depressing way. If you change the way you interpret things, you can modify your behavior and your outlook on life. This can be done for pedophiles, rapists, murderers... anyone, really. Some habits may be harder to unlearn than others, but it is never impossible. Masturbation, for instance, is a harder habit to quit (not that you would want to) than brushing your teeth. Nonetheless, there is no mental "illness" that is so hopelessly ingrained in a person's nature that they can't help themselves.

[QueenB4Liberty]

If the medical profession end up classifying it as a mental disorder, you want to kill mentally deranged men who haven't carried out a capital offense? I'm not sure that's a good idea. There needs to be some sort of treatment and supervision of them. I don't know what the answer is.


At the very least they could decriminalize simply looking at child pornography, and using manufactured child pornography (child pornography that doesn't involve a real child, which can be created digitally) along with cognitive behavioral therapy and then if that doesn't work there are tons of drugs that decrease sexual urges. But what we're doing now isn't working.

[Dianne]

Can you post his psychiatric credentials? The Med school he graduated from... Is he a trained psychologist, or psychiatrist ..

Just curious, because at the minimum he should posses one of those degrees... If he is just a psychologist... he will be trumped by the psychiatrist.

Regardless... if he is neither of those... he should jump off the nearest Eiffel Tower for being an impostor of God's love and work...

[bolil]

Can you post his psychiatric credentials? The Med school he graduated from... Is he a trained psychologist, or psychiatrist ..

Just curious, because at the minimum he should posses one of those degrees... If he is just a psychologist... he will be trumped by the psychiatrist.

Regardless... if he is neither of those... he should jump off the nearest Eiffel Tower for being an impostor of God's love and work...

+rep for creative thought.

One does not need to be a shrink to realize child raping is wrong and not a "condition" but an action. It is as bad as murder and should be punished as such.

If I got my hands on one of these sickos, I pray GOD the strength to do what needs to be done. Maybe one day I will. This is where my contradiction exposes itself: I care enough about the bill of rights to have engraved them into memory, being said there are certain cases where I would ignore them in favor of old, primal, justice. Those cases are, and only, Child rape and murder.

[QueenB4Liberty]

And there's a difference between a violent offender that sexually abuses children and someone who is sexually attracted to children. Sexuality is a very interesting subject. Not everyone who is sexually attracted to children will act upon their urges. Not everyone who sexually abuses children are sexually attracted to children. I would say anyone that rapes another person is after power. It's not a sexual act at all, but a power struggle. You rape someone to have power over them, not necessarily because you have a sexual attraction to them.

[Ranger29860]

My fault. My comment came after I misread the part you were responding to.


To respond to Ranger, pedophiles are attracted sexually to children under 11. [apparently there are other designations for 11-14 and 15-17] They are not taking the kids merely to go sight-seeing. They are taking the kids to molest/rape them.

Ok there seems to be a valid misreading of what I said so let me rephrase. Pedophiles are sexually attracted to the age of the child more than they are by the gender of the child (hence why there is a near one to one ratio of girls being molested to boys being molested). So to equate them to homosexuals would be dishonest since a homosexual is attracted to the gender of a particular person. Now of course some people have an age preference and if you look at human sexuality as a bunch of sliding scales you would see a scale on age, color, weight, gender and a slew of other things. Sadly what has happened is pedophiles age slider is way to far to the left. While most of us would be somewhere in the middle (as in people our age) while some may be just slightly to the left and like younger people sexually. And of course this all depends on whether age is a string driving factor in that particular persons sexuality.

So those who use the phrase Homosexual Pedophiles (there are a few post doing it) might be in someway right if the person is an actual homosexual but that does not mean that there driving force for molesting a young child is there homosexuality. Using that phrase that way is dishonest. You would not qualify it with "That black child molester".

I am talking about the very young here btw, not talking about late teens since that is a whole nother issue.

[TomtheTinker]

Brand them on their foreheads.

[tod evans]

I've got a time-tested solution to baby-rapers....

Fuck a bunch of politically correct discussion, mess with my kid and the state will be dealing with me not you.

[newbitech]

"criminal condition"? Pedos have mental conditions and commit criminal acts. WtF is a "criminal condition"?

[Working Poor]

I know let's start a new reality show, and call it "Isles of the Pedophiles"

[RockEnds]

These people harm more than just themselves. I have a friend who was on a jury. The guy walked. It still bothers my friend. She was visiting with me about it just this weekend. The trial was six or seven years ago. She still worries about whether he's assaulted more children and wonders what she could have done different to stop the guy.

I have another friend who moved out of state and had something like this happen. They weren't real sure who did it because of some odd circumstances. They reported it, and not long after someone within LE confessed and shot himself. It's too bad he waited until after he assaulted a child to take his own life, but at least he won't be around little children again.

Another guy I went to school with raped a girl, slit her mother's throat (she lived), then kidnapped a mentally handicapped 12-year-old sibling and left her dead in a ditch. He did it with his uncle. The two of them blamed one another, and no one really ever proved which one killed the kid. They were both sentenced to execution. IMO, they both deserved it. I understand the dangers of the death penalty, and I don't want innocent people executed, but in this case I don't see how either of them were innocent. It wasn't one of those deals where a body turned up then an investigation began. Nope. A child was kidnapped. The kidnappers identities were known. A manhunt ensued. A body was recovered. They were partners in crime. Let them both pay the bill.

I have less than no sympathy for baby rapers. None.

[dannno]

There is a drug that helps them deal with it. Usually it is a trio of drugs, though one imparticular seems to help them 'deal with it' more than the others. I would agree to these drugs being used to treat their 'illness':

Sodium thiopental
Pancuronium bromide
and finally, Potassium chloride

Let's say they could do something like pick them out at airports and other public gathering places by reading their thoughts (and all of the public officials/well connected could be filtered from flagging). Would you support this for them for their thought crimes?

[Ranger29860]

"criminal condition"? Pedos have mental conditions and commit criminal acts. WtF is a "criminal condition"?

A criminal act in this case would be the molestation of the child. Whic should be punished to the full extent of the law.

While the "criminal condition" would the be a person who is sexual attracted to a minor. They may never have acted upon those thoughts and may never do so. But if someone were to tell you that they have those thoughts they would immediately be treated like a criminal even though they are not one.

The whole idea of a criminal condition is thought crime at its heart. If you think a certain way you must be or will be guilty of a crime, it is a very dangerous road to go down.

[cheapseats]

WtF is a "criminal condition"?



You Commit Three Felonies A Day, by L. Gordon Crovitz: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704471504574438900830760842.html


Winston Churchill: "If you have ten thousand regulations, you destroy all respect for the law."


That said, I strongly support the Death Penalty (WITH an express lane) as a clear-cut Necessary Evil.

[BlackTerrel]

I know let's start a new reality show, and call it "Isles of the Pedophiles"

Adam Carolla Pedof Isle?

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ss&q=pedof+isle&oq=pedof+isle&gs_l=hp.3...923.2249.0.2433.10.10.0.0.0.0.184.884. 6j3.9.0.enav_ss%2Cui%3Db%2Cuns%3D0..0.0.0_..1c.1.6 .site-search.6PvyXByI1ek&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43828540,d.aWc&fp=aaeba9b7f058e829&biw=1366&bih=675

[Slutter McGee]

Lmao. :D

Seriously though, me wanting the laws as such that pedophiles [child molesters and rapists] can be killed here [you know, after they are convicted] somehow has turned into me wanting to kill every Muslim. Even though, the large majority of Muslims aren't pedophiles and even though I have clarified 10 different times. I really am at such a loss for words as how to even respond to your previous post I quoted. I am amazed at your absurd leaps to conclusion and lack of reading comprehension. It's on par with Slutter McGee or fire11. Fire11 seemed more cogent in his thought process though. I don't know what else to say but wow.

Really? You are compairing my posts with Fire11? Were you dropped too many times on the head as a child?

Slutter McGee

[Origanalist]

Really? You are compairing my posts with Fire11? Were you dropped too many times on the head as a child?

Slutter McGee

Fire11 is much more entertaining. And he has his own website-sites that can keep you laughing for quite a while.

[muh_roads]

What if the child is "into it"? lol Should the state dictate age of consent?

Playing devil's advocate here.

[Origanalist]

What if the child is "into it"? lol Should the state dictate age of consent?

Playing devil's advocate here.

If the child is "into it" you run, don't walk in the other direction.

[muh_roads]

If the child is "into it" you run, don't walk in the other direction.

lol