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View Full Version : Libertarians...Now Is Not The Time To Look For Shortcuts




cajuncocoa
03-13-2013, 08:09 AM
By, Chris Rossini


A friend, who I consider to be a very keen observer of the libertarian "movement" emails:


Ron Paul 'awoke' millions, but the "liberty movement" is at least half full of half-ass pseudo-libertarian statists. I see so many of them that have little good to say about RP now. He failed in their eyes. It's all about attaining the crown. So frustrating.



If there's one thing that Ron Paul stressed, it's that we're engaged in a battle of ideas. The goal is to convince/teach people the ideas of liberty.

There are no short-cuts. It's a long and winding road.

Let Ron Paul's career in Congress act as a guide. How easy would it have been for him to just bend a little?

But he didn't. He knew that the ideas of liberty cannot (and should not) be watered down.

When did the results come in?

In the first year? No.

In the first decade? No.

Try around 30 years later!

The old saying remains true: As you sow, so shall you reap.

Ron Paul stayed true to principle, and sowed the seeds of liberty for 30 years. As a result, he (and all of us) were rewarded with the mother of all bumper crops!

Now is not the time to look for shortcuts, or to trade away some libertarian ideas in exchange for statist ideas, like they're baseball cards.

The goal is not to obtain some vicious Crown. A famous warning must be kept in mind: And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul?

It's time to take the example that Ron Paul set and live it ourselves. We've seen what one man with principle can achieve. Imagine multiplying that by thousands, or even millions...

But it's a choice...and we all have to make it.

One of my favorite movie scenes came to mind that sums up the choice perfectly. It's only 40 seconds long, but it speaks volumes:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orxnwmTrqIo

Stay true to the message...don't get squished.

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2013/03/libertariansnow-is-not-time-to-look-for.html

sailingaway
03-13-2013, 08:18 AM
Cats don't do that, they sit on the keyboard.

Petar
03-13-2013, 08:18 AM
It's about balance. On one hand you have certain people who are only interesting in staying puritanical and irrelevant forever, and then on the other hand you have those who would totally sell out on any principle just to get elected... certain teocons come to mind...

But, fortunately, you also have a genius like Rand Paul who is able to effectively balance both concerns, so let's all just keep being thankful for that.

green73
03-13-2013, 08:35 AM
Excellent post.

cajuncocoa
03-13-2013, 08:37 AM
Cats don't do that, they sit on the keyboard.
Oh how I know! LOL

Petar
03-13-2013, 08:46 AM
I neg rep anyone who uses "edite"

edited are as much devoted to keeping liberty irrelevant as are the Teocons...

Balance is key, and for that we have the genius of Rand Paul.

green73
03-13-2013, 08:55 AM
Edited are as much devoted to keeping liberty irrelevant as are the Teocons...

Balance is key, and for that we have the genius of Rand Paul.

http://funnyasduck.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/funny-dancing-panda-street-hit-truck-car-animated-gif.gif

sailingaway
03-13-2013, 09:02 AM
genius doesn't require attacking people, logical debate will prevail.

Petar
03-13-2013, 09:14 AM
genius doesn't require attacking people, logical debate will prevail.

You are mistaken.

I'm not arbitrarily calling anyone a "loser".

"Losertarian" describes that camp which has decided that being puritanical and marginalized is better than being balanced and winning elections.

A lot of these people are probably traitors that have been put in place to hijack us...

Petar
03-13-2013, 09:15 AM
And how is logical debate supposed to prevail if you are going to black out free expression of relevant concepts?

Petar
03-13-2013, 09:17 AM
Notice that you did not black out "Teocons" but only "Losertarians". Why is that, do you have some kind of bias?

TheGrinch
03-13-2013, 09:19 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JmSCx3OhOnM/TLeNu5L89yI/AAAAAAAAAfw/4rCfUCtmysM/s400/Bob-Marley.jpg

cajuncocoa
03-13-2013, 09:39 AM
@Petar: libertarians are devoted to keeping the principles of liberty pure and true. There are no compromises on freedom; to do that is to accept a certain amount of tyranny.

My wish for Rand Paul would be to keep acting on liberty issues as he did during last Wednesday's filibuster, and leave the rhetoric that appeals solely to the neocon (Beck/Hannity) base out of speeches going forward.

Petar
03-13-2013, 09:47 AM
@Petar: libertarians are devoted to keeping the principles of liberty pure and true. There are no compromises on freedom; to do that is to accept a certain amount of tyranny.

My wish for Rand Paul would be to keep acting on liberty issues as he did during last Wednesday's filibuster, and leave the rhetoric that appeals solely to the neocon (Beck/Hannity) base out of speeches going forward.

Not every libertarian is a Losertarian. A libertarian like myself understands that strategy is important if you are going to be at all successful. A Losertarian would rather just lose every single election as long as it enables them to continue to hold their nose above everyone else with their claims of "purity". I'm telling you, these people are put in place to keep us marginalized...

TheGrinch
03-13-2013, 09:52 AM
Not every libertarian is a Losertarian. A libertarian like myself understands that strategy is important if you are going to be at all successful. A Losertarian would rather just lose every single election as long as it enables them to continue to hold their nose above everyone else with their claims of "purity". I'm telling you, these people are put in place to keep us marginalized...

Just stop. There will always be disagreement in philosophies and methods, but we're all on the same team here.

Purists are necessary to maintaining the ideals of this movement, but many of of the vocal Rand critics like Cajun recognize all of the good that Rand is doing. I think that's plenty fair to praise him for what he does, but hold his feet to the fire if he strays too far from the message.

It's far more likely that there are people put into place to keep our true ideals marginalized (e.g., Beck)

Petar
03-13-2013, 09:58 AM
Just stop. There will always be disagreement in philosophies and methods, but we're all on the same team here.

Purists are necessary to maintaining the ideals of this movement, but many of of the vocal Rand critics like Cajun recognize all of the good that Rand is doing. I think that's plenty fair to praise him for what he does, but hold his feet to the fire if he strays too far from the message.

It's far more likely that there are people put into place to keep our true ideals marginalized (e.g., Beck)

I agree that Beck is a total wolf in sheep's clothing, but I do feel similar about the leaders of this camp that I have been railing against.

Oh well, everyone has said their piece I guess, no point to continue attacking one another...

green73
03-13-2013, 11:07 PM
Reposted on the #1 libertarian website in THE WORLD

http://lewrockwell.com/rossini/rossini12.1.html

dancjm
03-13-2013, 11:33 PM
Not every libertarian is a Losertarian. A libertarian like myself understands that strategy is important if you are going to be at all successful. A Losertarian would rather just lose every single election as long as it enables them to continue to hold their nose above everyone else with their claims of "purity". I'm telling you, these people are put in place to keep us marginalized...

It's called being principled. The fact is it does not matter if we are talking about Libertarianism or anything else. You either believe in something and stand up for it, or you don't.

Winning by sacrificing what you were fighting for is not winning.

green73
03-13-2013, 11:48 PM
It's called being principled. The fact is it does not matter if we are talking about Libertarianism or anything else. You either believe in something and stand up for it, or you don't.

Winning by sacrificing what you were fighting for is not winning.

You win post of the day.

T.hill
03-14-2013, 12:45 AM
Rand's strategy does not include selling out, on any principle. I'd like to challenge what watering-down liberty even means.

Compromising principle?

robert68
03-14-2013, 01:43 AM
Rand's strategy does not include selling out, on any principle. I'd like to challenge what watering-down liberty even means.

Compromising principle?

His votes for and support for economic sanctions on Iran, and the US defending Israel, are imperialism (or intervention in the affairs of other countries).

AlexAmore
03-14-2013, 01:44 AM
LOL what an f'ing joke of a concept. Every time it's brought up, I remind the "purists" of this little factoid. BTW I hesitate to call them "purists" because I think they are actually farther away because....

Our forefathers had no qualms about using deception and guerrilla warfare against the British. Was it considered uncivilized, barbarous, and dishonorable to snipe at that retreating lines of the British? Yep, but it was a hell of a nice SHORTCUT to gain liberty. Our forefathers took their cultural worldview and principals, threw em away and in this instance they managed to create the biggest liberty experiment we call the USA.

dancjm
03-14-2013, 01:46 AM
Rand's strategy does not include selling out, on any principle. I'd like to challenge what watering-down liberty even means.

Compromising principle?

I agree, I feel very strongly against compromise. But Rand doesn't compromise on principle, at least I haven't seen him yet. What he does is package a principled position in a pragmatic and reasonable way. We have principles for a reason, we need the Libertarian movement to defend and articulate why our principles are what they are, rather than abandoning them in favor of votes. It's a tough job, but that is the challenge. What's been so pleasing about recent events for me is that Rand has shown himself to be particularly good at this.

Petar
03-14-2013, 02:04 AM
It's called being principled. The fact is it does not matter if we are talking about Libertarianism or anything else. You either believe in something and stand up for it, or you don't.

Winning by sacrificing what you were fighting for is not winning.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ghI2knp4txs/TG34tPH82oI/AAAAAAAAMAA/g7wfnxB7Llw/s1600/stick_in_the_mud.png

heavenlyboy34
03-14-2013, 02:17 AM
LOL what an f'ing joke of a concept. Every time it's brought up, I remind the "purists" of this little factoid. BTW I hesitate to call them "purists" because I think they are actually farther away because....

Our forefathers had no qualms about using deception and guerrilla warfare against the British. Was it considered uncivilized, barbarous, and dishonorable to snipe at that retreating lines of the British? Yep, but it was a hell of a nice SHORTCUT to gain liberty. Our forefathers took their cultural worldview and principals, threw em away and in this instance they managed to create the biggest liberty experiment we call the USA.
Not really, but I won't derail the thread debunking this historically inaccurate post.

green73
03-14-2013, 06:35 AM
Now he says Obama could go down in history as a great leader if he would save Social Security for all future generations.

cajuncocoa
03-14-2013, 07:04 AM
It's called being principled. The fact is it does not matter if we are talking about Libertarianism or anything else. You either believe in something and stand up for it, or you don't.

Winning by sacrificing what you were fighting for is not winning.
+rep !!

Petar
03-14-2013, 07:10 AM
+rep !!

You guys need to think about cause and effect more.

If Rand Paul, for example, publicly called for legalized heroin vending machines tomorrow, then Rand Paul would no longer exist as a viable politician.

Conversely, if Rand Paul chooses his battles wisely, then that gives us the opportunity to at least get some of the freedoms that we want, down the road.

Smart = some of the freedoms you want eventually

Dumb = none of the freedoms you want immediately

It's not that hard people...

tod evans
03-14-2013, 07:21 AM
Damn it!

I have none..:o

Maybe I can get some from "Our-Government"...:rolleyes:


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JmSCx3OhOnM/TLeNu5L89yI/AAAAAAAAAfw/4rCfUCtmysM/s400/Bob-Marley.jpg

cajuncocoa
03-14-2013, 07:25 AM
You guys need to think about cause and effect more.

If Rand Paul, for example, publicly called for legalized heroin vending machines tomorrow, then Rand Paul would no longer exist as a viable politician.

Conversely, if Rand Paul chooses his battles wisely, then that gives us the opportunity to at least get some of the freedoms that we want, down the road.

Smart = some of the freedoms you want eventually

Dumb = none of the freedoms you want immediately

It's not that hard people...
First of all, no one mentioned Rand Paul's name in association with this article until you popped into this thread. There are many other candidates presently serving, and others who will be ready to run in 2014, who should take the advice given in the article. I also believe the article could be directed to liberty activists who (you know who you are) are too quick to label someone a "liberty candidate" without first allowing said candidate to prove him/herself worthy of the designation (Kerry Bentivolio comes to mind).

That said, it is good advice for Rand Paul and his supporters. Too many of Rand's supporters readily accept certain things he says without question. I get that he may be playing politics with his rhetoric, but if we are to continue to call ourselves "liberty activists", we MUST speak out when Rand's words are not consistent with a liberty position (e.g., the "attack on Israel" remark from John Kerry's confirmation hearing).

FSP-Rebel
03-14-2013, 08:48 AM
these solidarity threads are always amusing