Confessions of an active duty police officer

[Fivezeroes]

Now, I know that the word police officer doesn't sit well with most people here. I know that a lot of cops have given you guys a bad taste in your mouth; especially with all the reports of police brutally beating inmates and going around killing dogs to name a few.

I have been an officer for going on four years now, you probably ask why I joined the force to begin with. The simple answer is like most police officers, I wanted to make a difference in my community. I know that sentence right there got quite a few scoffs. But, that's the truth. I joined because I was tired of seeing all the drug dealers, pedophiles, and plain old common criminals destroy the city that I grew up in. So four years ago, I joined the force.

In those four years, I have seen pretty much every horror you can think of, child pornography in the hands of those sworn to protect this country, members of the military. I have seen gang bangers dead in the middle of the street, brain matter on the side-walk where they were gunned down. I have seen women beaten so badly by their significant others and not wanting to press charges, that it sickened me. I have even seen my fair share of suicides, which are some of the worse things to ever witness.

I have arrested quite a few people, I have helped a woman give birth (I don't know how doctors do this), I have taken many many pedophiles off the streets, not once have I asked for praise or anything like that, I saw it as doing my job. In all the time I have been on the force, I have NEVER once stepped on someone's constitutional rights. Most cops can't say that, most cops smirk when you even mention the thought of regular citizens having rights. I have also never killed anyone's dog, whether it was a suspect's dog or just a regular family dog that came running to me, when I went out to check out a domestic disturbance. I have had hostile dogs try to attack me, but, a squirt of pepper spray took care of that. I have even saved a suspects life after they had a heart attack on me, while I was in the process of cuffing them.

I have received various awards over the years from the chief, again not to be a glory hound or anything like that, but to do what I set out to do, and that was protect people that couldn't protect themselves as well as protect my city. I guess what I'm trying to express in this post is that not all cops are bad, yes, there are the few that don't give two shits about your rights. But, they are few and far between. Every officer and I'm sure that I'm not the only one on these boards, that see the police brutality videos are both saddened and sickened by our fellow officers behaviors. I know that when you guys see it, you automatically think that all cops are like that, that all of us just want to rule the world and beat you down for the littlest of reasons, but again that's far from the truth. Most of us just want to do our jobs, nothing less.

So while I understand why you guys have a certain distrust of us, I ask that you don't lump us all into that group. If I were like the cops you see in that video, I'd be pissed off at how many times you guys have used the word pig, and the fact that some of you even advocate mowing us down. However that is the glory of the Constitution, you can say what you want as long as it remains words, no one needs to go acting on such suggestions, no matter how bad a cop is.

And before I'm asked... the how many question, here is your answers.

Dogs killed: 0
Suspects killed during arrest: 0
Pedo's off the street: 30-ish
Hard Drug Dealers: Over 100

Oh and if you ask about my name, why I called myself Fivezeroes, just another word for the cops. lol. 5.0

Any more questions ask away, except for my badge number of course and which police department I work for. I would prefer to remain anonymous as well, just in case the higher ups don't appreciate me doing this.

[TheTexan]

a) Until cops are held to the same legal standards as everyone else, I will never accept the "bad apple" argument
b) Until cops no longer consistently and systemically cover up the crimes of their colleagues, I will never accept the "bad apple" argument
c) Throwing people in a cage for selling a product to willing buyers is not cool.

[thoughtomator]

We'll be able to trust cops when we can trust them to hold each other to account for wrongdoing. The "thin blue line" is seditious in nature and is a primary cause of mistrust between LEO and citizen.

[kcchiefs6465]

But, they are few and far between.
My experiences dictate otherwise.



I'd like to know if you are in a large or small police department? If you have ever heard of Regina Tasca? I'd like to know if you have ever seen something you did not agree with yet felt the urge to not speak about considering your respective officer's career? I would like to know that if you saw a civilian's rights being violated, whether that be from an active LEO or not, would you intervene? [and I'd remind you that LEO are nothing more than civilians themselves] I'd also like to know what your stances on the war on drugs is? Do you believe the problem would be better off with not locking up non-violent drugs offenders, pushing up the cost of illegal narcotics because you're pursuing them, and incentivizing an illegal black market of said drugs? I would like your position on gang violence? Do you feel gangs are a problem and why do you [if you do] think gang violence is affected by way of arresting drug dealers? Are you aware of the disparity between different groups [blacks vs whites, to be simple] with regards to drug 'crimes?'

Respectfully, these are a few questions I've wanted to ask but never had enough assurances that I wouldn't be beaten if I did. Though I have said variants of the questions over the years.

[GomerPile]

Thank you for your service...

[Fivezeroes]

a) Until cops are held to the same legal standards as everyone else, I will never accept the "bad apple" argument
b) Until cops no longer consistently and systemically cover up the crimes of their colleagues, I will never accept the "bad apple" argument
c) Throwing people in a cage for selling a product to willing buyers is not cool.


We can't control how the DA's decide to press charges or not, half the time it's not even up to the DA it's up to the mayor and if he or she doesn't feel like recruiting more cops, then they order the DA to drop charges. It's always political when you see crap like that happen.

Again, I can't change your opinion of us, the sad thing is you're so blinded by your hatred of a few dirty cops that you take it out on every other cop.


As for number 3... I actually agree, I find it to be a complete waste of tax payer dollars, but until the state governments or even the federal government stops this wasted war on drugs, I have to follow the law. Hell, a lot of cops would agree, if someone wants to kill themselves slowly with drugs, who are we to interfere.

[Anti Federalist]

In all the time I have been on the force, I have NEVER once stepped on someone's constitutional rights. Most cops can't say that, most cops smirk when you even mention the thought of regular citizens having rights.

If they "smirked" at you, what do you suppose they did to us, out of your sight?

[acptulsa]

Well, I've dealt with good cops in my life, and appreciated them. If you hold yourself to the standard you claim, fivezeroes, you're all right by me.

Pity you're so young (though I'm sure you disagree completely). I'd be interested in the view of someone who has been in the business for an extended period about how the involvement of the Feds has changed, and how that has changed things. If you have a friend who has been a cop for some decades, some of us would appreciate it if you'd get a sense of that and share it with us. Of course, that's entirely up to you. It's just a subject that interests many of us.

Welcome to the forum. It'll be nice to have someone to help me say (as I do once in a while), don't condemn the good with the bad. And I hope you keep a sense of humor about it, and don't mind getting a little outraged at the bad apples yourself. After all, it's you they harm by association...

[Anti Federalist]

Thank you for your service...

How come I don't get thanked for my "service"?

How come I don't get to board an airplane first?

I work at a very dangerous job (much more so than a cop) supplying a product that, without which, life as you know it would cease to exist, and you would, in all likelihood, die.

And I don't put a gun to your head for my pay or for kicks or as part of my job.

[awake]

Some questions:

Which laws on the books are criminal in nature ; the ones you will refuse to enforce? Name one unjust law?

Will you arrest and shoot American citizens if the order is given?

Have you ever driven over the speed limit and pulled others over and took money from them for doing the same thing?

[TheTexan]

We can't control how the DA's decide to press charges or not, half the time it's not even up to the DA it's up to the mayor and if he or she doesn't feel like recruiting more cops, then they order the DA to drop charges. It's always political when you see crap like that happen.

Again, I can't change your opinion of us, the sad thing is you're so blinded by your hatred of a few dirty cops that you take it out on every other cop.

It's not just the DA. It's the courts. It's the police chief. It's the cops themselves. Far too many times have I seen a crime by cop go unpunished, because that cop's boss said "policy was followed."

That reminds me.. I forgot her name, but remember that cop that got fired for defending a person from being repeatedly and unnecessarily assaulted by her colleague? They admitted "policy was followed" but claimed "she probably never read those policies anyway" and fired her.

Good cops get fired. Bad cops get promoted. It's a systemic problem, with the institution, not simply individuals.


As for number 3... I actually agree, I find it to be a complete waste of tax payer dollars, but until the state governments or even the federal government stops this wasted war on drugs, I have to follow the law. Hell, a lot of cops would agree, if someone wants to kill themselves slowly with drugs, who are we to interfere.

That "I was only following orders" argument doesn't fly very well on these forums FYI.

[kcchiefs6465]

That reminds me.. I forgot her name, but remember that cop that got fired for defending a person from being repeatedly and unnecessarily assaulted by her colleague? They admitted "policy was followed" but claimed "she probably never read those policies anyway" and fired her.

Regina Tasca

And FWIW they had her committed for a psych eval.

[GomerPile]

Because you didn't take the time to write a thoughtful post about your job...

I also appreciate it when my employees work hard and try to do a good job.


How come I don't get thanked for my "service"?

[Expatriate]

Thanks for posting your story. I criticize bad cops and LE policies on here a lot, but I try not to generalize too much because I am sure there are some who joined for noble reasons like you describe.

Couple questions:

1. When you went through police academy/training or whatever was required, did you see more potential "good cops" getting washed out than "bad cops" or vice versa? Is there any kind of process of elimination that is responsible for more of the "thuggish" types making it through due to their perceived toughness?

2. Again during training, was there an abundance of people that wanted to be cops simply for the power it gave them? Do you think police work attracts those types?

3. What's your opinion on the Dorner fiasco? Do you ever see the kind of "police brotherhood" corruption he complained about in your department?

4. Assuming you're here because you have libertarian or voluntaryist leanings, do you have a problem doing your job when it requires you to use force against purely non-violent criminals like potheads? What's your opinion on drug/prostitution legalization? edit: I see you answered this already

[Fivezeroes]

My experiences dictate otherwise.



I'd like to know if you are in a large or small police department? If you have ever heard of Regina Tasca? I'd like to know if you have ever seen something you did not agree with yet felt the urge to not speak about considering your respective officer's career? I would like to know that if you saw a civilian's rights being violated, whether that be from an active LEO or not would you intervene? [and I'd remind you that LEO are nothing more than civilians themselves] I'd also like to know what your stances on the war on drugs is? Do you believe the problem would be better off with not locking up non-violent drugs offenders, pushing up the cost of illegal narcotics because you're pursuing them, and incentivizing an illegal black market of said drugs? I would like your position on gang violence? Do you feel gangs are a problem and why do you [if you do] think gang violence is affected by way of arresting drug dealers? Are you aware of the disparity between different groups [blacks vs whites, to be simple] with regards to drug 'crimes?'

Respectfully, these are a few questions I've wanted to ask but never had enough assurances that I wouldn't be beatin if I did. Though I have said variants of the questions over the years.


Hmm... lets see where to start..
I'd say the police department I'm with is fairly large, it's not a small-town PD if that's what you're asking. I have never heard of Regina Tasca, well hadn't until I just looked her up, what she did was commendable and what the PD did to her after 20 years is complete bullshit. If you're referring to police brutality, no I haven't seen any of that other than in videos and hope to never see it in my department. To be quite honest, I've never seen anything bad at my department, never seen a fellow officer cross the line into no mans land, and never seen one really abuse his authority just because he could.

But, yes, if I were to ever witness something like that happening, I would damn sure do my best to stop it. And I would go directly to IA on whoever did it. As I remind all recruits that come right out of the academy, well those stationed in my precinct anyway "You took an oath, don't disgrace the badge". My stance on drugs is this, if you want to use hard drugs, cocaine, heroin, crack, by all means do it. You're destroying your own body and eventually, you'll die from it. There's no reason to put people in jail for it, it's a waste of tax payer money. As for the people who want to partake of the herb, I see no harm in it. No reason to arrest someone for smoking mary j.

My true opinion on the war on drugs is, it's not working. It's costing billions of dollars a year, and yea, sure you'll get a drug lord off the street every once in a blue moon, but the next day there is someone else there to step up. Completely, useless.

There isn't a whole lot of gang violence here, but there is some. And it doesn't matter how many we arrest for dealing, the violence will always be there. To gangs it's all about what block you grew up on, what colors you wear. There is no stopping it, and honestly I don't believe drugs are the main cause of the gang violence. As for disparity, well, you have a lot more blacks dealing harder drugs than whites. Whites mostly deal Mary J, while blacks mostly deal cocaine, crack, etc. At least in the cases where I've busted a few. I wish that I could tell you that I sat them down had a good talk with them and it changed their ways, sadly I would be lying if I said that.

[Anti Federalist]

Because you didn't take the time to write a thoughtful post about your job...

I also appreciate it when my employees work hard and try to do a good job.

LOL - That was a very tongue in cheek response on my part...I don't expect random strangers to thank me for doing my job or not shoving a gun in their face.

[FSP-Rebel]

I've had mostly good experiences with the police because I show respect, speak coherently, clean cut and I don't badger them like some. That said, when I bounced at a nightclub in Novi I left work early because we were dead and noticed a gang of chaldeans beating up on some others and so I called the local police. This was at around one in the morning and w/i 5 minutes it seemed like the entire squad showed up. The aggressors were feeding the sergeant a line of bs on what happened so I yelled over claiming that wasn't the case. And, then the guy flipped out on me and told his officers to put me in my car or I'd be arrested for public disorder. As I'm filing the report, there was an officer on either side of me outside the car and it was clear they were looking in the car for anything they could find in plain view. They clearly knew where I worked and what I did based on the suit I was wearing yet the disheveled and unfit sergeant acted heavy anyway despite a nasty incident was happening where two dudes were getting their asses beat all over the parking lot. As I left, I told the one officer that I was glad they came and stopped the fight but that I'd probably just let it go next time based on how they treated me, the guy that initiated the contact to stop the violence. That said, I have cousins and others that are sheriffs around here and they're hiring so I'm on the short list.

[TheTexan]

This cop was acquitted. The courtroom was packed with officers who all applauded the verdict.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzlrIGN8jVk

[The Gold Standard]

I look at police the same way I look at the military (and they really are one and the same these days anyway). The majority of cops I've dealt with seemed to be decent people, and I'm sure most are, and I try not to judge people in groups. I'm sure they are trying to serve the community (or country in the case of the military) and earn a living. The ones that get off and thrive on stomping on our throats and blasting our dogs sicken me, but the rest I put most of the blame their superiors. They are ordering and training you to be a standing army and instill fear in the public of their government's power.

Obviously the moral solution would be to stop the bad cops or turn them in or find another job. It isn't always that easy though, so I don't expect all of the good cops to up and resign tomorrow. I just think the problem would be solved higher up the food chain.

[Fivezeroes]

Thanks for posting your story. I criticize bad cops and LE policies on here a lot, but I try not to generalize too much because I am sure there are some who joined for noble reasons like you describe.

Couple questions:

1. When you went through police academy/training or whatever was required, did you see more potential "good cops" getting washed out than "bad cops" or vice versa? Is there any kind of process of elimination that is responsible for more of the "thuggish" types making it through due to their perceived toughness?

2. Again during training, was there an abundance of people that wanted to be cops simply for the power it gave them? Do you think police work attracts those types?

3. What's your opinion on the Dorner fiasco? Do you ever see the kind of "police brotherhood" corruption he complained about in your department?

4. Assuming you're here because you have libertarian or voluntaryist leanings, do you have a problem doing your job when it requires you to use force against purely non-violent criminals like potheads? What's your opinion on drug/prostitution legalization?


1. Surprisingly enough, a lot of the bad candidates in my academy class all washed out, over in another thread, I posted about a potential that couldn't stop shooting fake hostages.

2. I'm not 100% sure about everyone, but I know of at least five out of the 15 that made it through, wanted to be cops to protect those that couldn't protect themselves,

3. I think that Dorner had some massive dirt on the LAPD and that he was murdered. While there is a sense of brotherhood, all of us have an even bigger sense of justice and wouldn't let corruption fly if we knew about it.

4. Drugs in my opinion should be legalized, it would save a lot of tax payer money and would clear up jail cells for the real criminals out there, the rapist, murderers etc. Did you know that someone in possession of an 8ball of crack, will get almost as much time as a rapist. Where's the justice in that? As for the whole non-violent thing, there have been times when I've had a pothead resist, most of the time you can talk them down, the last thing I want to have to do is slam someone into the ground hurting them.

[TheTexan]

most of the time you can talk them down, the last thing I want to have to do is slam someone into the ground hurting them.

Have to?

You have to slam a peaceful person's head into the ground?

For what?

To put food on your table?

To send your children to school?

How's that any different from how members of criminal gangs justify their activities?

[presence]

Ok.. I want to play too. I've got a simple question:


Why in my years have I ***NEVER*** seen a cop driving under the speed limit on the interstate?

[Fivezeroes]

Some questions:

Which laws on the books are criminal in nature ; the ones you will refuse to enforce? Name one unjust law?

Will you arrest and shoot American citizens if the order is given?

Have you ever driven over the speed limit and pulled others over and took money from them for doing the same thing?


1. There are many unjust laws that I refuse to enforce, such as jailing someone who is doing 1 mile over the limit. Yes, that is means enough to put someone in jail and completely unjust especially when we get away with speeding. If you want a more specific answer, put which law you think is unjust, other than drug laws, which I have no choice but to follow as much as I hate to.

2. Fuck no, I refuse to shoot a fellow American, I don't want to shoot anyone if I can help it, and if given the order, I'd defect.

3. Nope, I would never allow myself to be bribed, nor would I pull anyone for speeding unless they were doing more than 10 miles over, after that I have no choice.

[Fivezeroes]

Ok.. I want to play too. I've got a simple question:


Why in my years have I ***NEVER*** seen a cop driving under the speed limit on the interstate?



That one, I cannot answer, as much as I'd love to tell you, because they were heading to a crime scene, I can't. It pisses me off to when I'm off-duty and in my personal vehicle, to see a cop doing more than 20 miles over.

[Fivezeroes]

Have to?

You have to slam a peaceful person's head into the ground?

For what?

To put food on your table?

To send your children to school?

How's that any different from how members of criminal gangs justify their activities?



Why does it matter what I say to you, your opinion about us is already made up? But, I'll tell you why.

Yes, it's to put food on the table for my kid and a roof over his head. I have a responsibility to him, to help him live a good life in this crappy world, with the way the economy is going, with there being hardly any jobs out there, this one keeps my son from being homeless.

As I said, if I can talk them into just surrendering peacefully it makes my day better, there is massive paper work to fill out when incidents of that nature happens. IA comes down on your ass hard if you intentionally hurt anyone. Like I said, I prefer not having to use brute force on anyone. But just because I use force to bring them to the ground doesn't mean that I have ever went overboard with it.

[TheTexan]

Yes, it's to put food on the table for my kid and a roof over his head. I have a responsibility to him, to help him live a good life in this crappy world, with the way the economy is going, with there being hardly any jobs out there, this one keeps my son from being homeless.

You admit to using violence unjustly against an innocent person, but it's ok because you have to put food on the table.

How's that any different from how members of criminal gangs justify their activities?

[kcchiefs6465]

Hmm... lets see where to start..
I'd say the police department I'm with is fairly large, it's not a small-town PD if that's what you're asking. I have never heard of Regina Tasca, well hadn't until I just looked her up, what she did was commendable and what the PD did to her after 20 years is complete bullshit. If you're referring to police brutality, no I haven't seen any of that other than in videos and hope to never see it in my department. To be quite honest, I've never seen anything bad at my department, never seen a fellow officer cross the line into no mans land, and never seen one really abuse his authority just because he could.

But, yes, if I were to ever witness something like that happening, I would damn sure do my best to stop it. And I would go directly to IA on whoever did it. As I remind all recruits that come right out of the academy, well those stationed in my precinct anyway "You took an oath, don't disgrace the badge". My stance on drugs is this, if you want to use hard drugs, cocaine, heroin, crack, by all means do it. You're destroying your own body and eventually, you'll die from it. There's no reason to put people in jail for it, it's a waste of tax payer money. As for the people who want to partake of the herb, I see no harm in it. No reason to arrest someone for smoking mary j.

My true opinion on the war on drugs is, it's not working. It's costing billions of dollars a year, and yea, sure you'll get a drug lord off the street every once in a blue moon, but the next day there is someone else there to step up. Completely, useless.

There isn't a whole lot of gang violence here, but there is some. And it doesn't matter how many we arrest for dealing, the violence will always be there. To gangs it's all about what block you grew up on, what colors you wear. There is no stopping it, and honestly I don't believe drugs are the main cause of the gang violence. As for disparity, well, you have a lot more blacks dealing harder drugs than whites. Whites mostly deal Mary J, while blacks mostly deal cocaine, crack, etc. At least in the cases where I've busted a few. I wish that I could tell you that I sat them down had a good talk with them and it changed their ways, sadly I would be lying if I said that.
Well thank you for answering. From personal experiences I have seen quite a lot from police and affiliated agencies. I have been robbed from, chained out of their personal dislike of me, I've had evidence planted on friends, my car threatened to be impounded from said 'evidence.' I've had 'witnesses' come by to acknowledge me as a perpetrator.. only after being chained for 6 to 8 hours the cop to say there were no witnesses. I have had friends beaten, comatosed, orbital sockets shattered. [multiple friends, though only one was comatose for a week] I've seen trumped up charges against different friends. I've had police laugh in my face about my rights. Try to box me as a young child. [while I'm cuffed] I've had charges that they've known wouldn't stick, that they knew I did commit levvied. I've been threatened [while I'm peacefully asserting I did not commit any crime and I am not resisting in any way] with being tasered. I have been threatened with execution. I have seen a couple of the said cops move to a position of Chief of Police while the other is a Lieuteniant. I have had a police officer remove his gloves and try to fight me for waiting on the bus on 'his corner.' [different one] I've had a police officer accelerate to try to hit me decelerating from 55 MPH or so down to 0 in 150 feet. [he was racing towards a red light and purposely tried to run me over- I'm not exaggerating, I couldn't believe it myself] I've had a cop let their dog run wild through my car. I've had them rip my side panels and dash apart- only to find nothing. I've had a cop throw me in the mud. Molest my underage girlfriend on the premise of drugs. [I was 18 she was 17] A male cop when there were 5 or 6 different female cops around. [only to be let go with traffic tickets] I really could go on and on. Forgive me for being biased. You seem like a reasonable man. Pick a different profession, and we could be friends. I've got a mild case of PTSD with you cocksuckers harrassing me. [not you, police in general] I can't see a cop without having a nonvoluntary reaction. And I've been all over the states. From small police departments to big police departments. Believe it or not, everything I said is true.

[Fivezeroes]

This cop was acquitted. The courtroom was packed with officers who all applauded the verdict.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzlrIGN8jVk



He's either a LT or a Captain one, I'm not sure what New York's uniforms look like as far as rank goes, but that right there is why he walked. Because of his bullshit rank. I told you, it's always political when shit like that happens. Had you done that to a cop, you would have served a mandatory 2 years for assault on a police officer.

[AGRP]

I joined because I was tired of seeing all the drug dealers. Most of us just want to do our jobs, nothing less.



Its that attitude that seriously bothers me. No victim, no crime.

There is no honor in kidnapping and locking people in cages when there is no victim. An honorable person could not live with themself knowing they lock people up for doing something that didnt hurt anyone against their will. Why dont you lock up boxers and mma fighters? Surely, that would stop violence. Isnt there stolen property to track down or break ins to be investigated?

Throwing people in cages for victimless crimes is not the solution. You should know better. If you really wanted to end these problems then why dont you become someone who educates?

[Fivezeroes]

Well thank you for answering. From personal experiences I have seen quite a lot from police and affiliated agencies. I have been robbed from, chained out of their personal dislike of me, I've had evidence planted on friends, my car threatened to be impounded from said 'evidence.' I've had 'witnesses' come by to acknowledge me as a perpetrator.. only after being chained for 6 to 8 hours the cop to say there were no witnesses. I have had friends beaten, comatosed, orbital sockets shattered. [multiple friends, though only one was comatose for a week] I've seen trumped up charges against different friends. I've had police laugh in my face about my rights. Try to box me as a young child. [while I'm cuffed] I've had charges that they've known wouldn't stick, that they knew I did commit levvied. I've been threatened [while I'm peacefully asserting I did not commit any crime and I am not resisting in any way] with being tasered. I have been threatened with execution. I have seen a couple of the said cops move to a position of Chief of Police while the other is a Lieuteniant. I have had a police officer remove his gloves and try to fight me for waiting on the bus on 'his corner.' [different one] I've had a police officer accelerate to try to hit me decelerating from 55 MPH or so down to 0 in 150 feet. [he was racing towards a red light and purposely tried to run me over- I'm not exaggerating, I couldn't believe it myself] I've had a cop let their dog run wild through my car. I've had them rip my side panels and dash apart- only to find nothing. I've had a cop throw me in the mud. Molest my underage girlfriend on the premise of drugs. [I was 18 she was 17] A male cop when there were 5 or 6 different female cops around. [only to be let go with traffic tickets] I really could go on and on. Forgive me for being biased. You seem like a reasonable man. Pick a different profession, and we could be friends. I've got a mild case of PTSD with you cocksuckers harrassing me. [not you, police in general] I can't see a cop without having a nonvoluntary reaction. And I've been all over the states. From small police departments to big police departments. Believe it or not, everything I said is true.


I am sorry that you and your girlfriend had to go through all that. I wish I could say that, those cops followed SOP when they searched your gf but it's not true, a female may only be searched by another female. Answer me this, did you guys contact a lawyer about it, police have mics on them at all times, those audio recordings could be submitted for evidence.

I'm not sure where you live at, but, it does sound to me like the PD around you is corrupt as shit.

[Fivezeroes]

Its that attitude that seriously bothers me. No victim, no crime.

There is no honor in kidnapping and locking people in cages when there is no victim. An honorable person could not live with themself knowing they lock people up for doing something that didnt hurt anyone against their will. Why dont you lock up boxers and mma fighters? Surely, that would stop violence. Isnt there stolen property to track down or break ins to be investigated?

Throwing people in cages for victimless crimes is not the solution. You should know better. If you really wanted to end these problems then why dont you become someone who educates?


It's not a victimless crime when one banger kills another banger because he's selling on his turf, is what I mean when I say drug dealers. I could care less how many people want to destroy their bodies with drugs, when another banger is gunned down, that becomes murder.

I agree, I would much rather be investigating murder, robberies and other stuff, than have to go out and arrest someone for dealing drugs, as long as no one gets murdered doing it, so be it.

[acptulsa]

You admit to using violence unjustly against an innocent person, but it's ok because you have to put food on the table.

How's that any different from how members of criminal gangs justify their activities?

I suggest you go back to the post you initially reacted to, reread it, and (if really necessary) look up the word 'resist'.

You clearly want to hold this man to an ancap standard and he clearly isn't an ancap.

[bolil]

Hmmmm, so how do you feel about "police discretion"? I was kidnapped by your brothers once, they admitted I had committed no crime, and claimed that they could force me to go to a hospital for an evaluation based upon their "discretion" and hear-say. Best part is the nerve damage from the cuffs. Who needs to feel the side of their thumb anyways?

I've little problem with good cops, I guess I've just never met one. They are like Unicorns. You might be one, and if so good on you.

I do appreciate that you (good) guys will follow the law, if the laws were better you would follow them aswell. I guess I am human and generalize.

I do remember auditing a LE class at my community college. The lesson of the day: How to manufacture probable cause.

...manufacture.

[TheTexan]

Answer me this, did you guys contact a lawyer about it, police have mics on them at all times, those audio recordings could be submitted for evidence.

Dashcams and other department owned recording devices have a tendency to fail for some reason when they record cops committing crimes. I don't know why that is, but it happens a lot. Should get a different supplier for those things or something.

For example this thread:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?406110-Jury-Finds-Occupy-Wall-Street-Protester-Innocent-After-Video-Contradicts-Police-Testimony

For some reason, not a single one of the cop's cameras worked that day. Not a dashcam. Nothing. Oddly enough the protester's cameras worked fine. The protester's camera even recorded a cop holding a camera with the recording light on. But I guess it was a malfunction, because according to the department, that cop wasn't even there at all, but was on some sort of secret mission.

That police department really needs to ask the protester's what cameras they use, they seem to work a lot better

[Fivezeroes]

Dashcams and other department owned recording devices have a tendency to fail for some reason when they record cops committing crimes. I don't know why that is, but it happens a lot. Should get a different supplier for those things or something.

For example this thread:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?406110-Jury-Finds-Occupy-Wall-Street-Protester-Innocent-After-Video-Contradicts-Police-Testimony

For some reason, not a single one of the cop's cameras worked that day. Not a dashcam. Nothing. Oddly enough the protester's cameras worked fine. The protester's camera even recorded a cop holding a camera with the recording light on. But I guess it was a malfunction, because according to the department, that cop wasn't even there at all, but was on some sort of secret mission.

That police department really needs to ask the protester's what cameras they use, they seem to work a lot better


There are only 3 people who have access to police dash cams. The SGT. LT, CPT. 99% of the time it's handled by the SGT, but as I said... Look at this cops uniform, he was either a LT or CPT and I'm half tempted to say he's def a LT. Which would give him access to all of that, which in turn makes him a dirty fucking pig. Nothing pisses me off more than a dirty cop.

[TheTexan]

I suggest you go back to the post you initially reacted to, reread it, and (if really necessary) look up the word 'resist'.

You clearly want to hold this man to an ancap standard and he clearly isn't an ancap.

It's not about ancap. It's about his own stated beliefs.

He said that the drug war is wrong and that people should be allowed to destroy their own bodies. He then went on to say that he assaulted otherwise peaceful people, because he needed to put food on the table.

If you assault someone and they resist your aggression, I don't care if you're ancap or not, that's not justification to assault them further.

[kcchiefs6465]

I am sorry that you and your girlfriend had to go through all that. I wish I could say that, those cops followed SOP when they searched your gf but it's not true, a female may only be searched by another female. Answer me this, did you guys contact a lawyer about it, police have mics on them at all times, those audio recordings could be submitted for evidence.

I'm not sure where you live at, but, it does sound to me like the PD around you is corrupt as shit.
We contacted a lawyer. There were about 15-20 cop cars on scene with another few showing up after the fact. All recording but all but one was malfunctioning. [though all cops had their lights flashing] All audio was malfunctioning. They admitted right to our faces that the baggy they found was not in the car. They pointed to a friend and said, you want to be a tough guy, it's yours. Charged him with paraphenalia. [for an empty bag, no trace nothing] They wanted to impound my car for a weed seed. [that's all they found after waiting 45 minutes for a drug dog to trample his dirty ass feet through my car] It freaked my gf out. Male pig ran his hands around her panty line while a female cop looked on. She literally wouldn't look me in the eye. Chief of Police said it didn't sound like his officers. They wouldn't do that. Dropped the charges on a friend. I had to pay my traffic tickets. [maybe I could have fought them but at the time I was just done] A few hundred dollar tickets and that was about that.

My friend in the coma didn't get any money either.

My friend with the broken orbital socket [for not running, while everyone else did] didn't get any money either.

It's a systemic problem.

[Fivezeroes]

Hmmmm, so how do you feel about "police discretion"? I was kidnapped by your brothers once, they admitted I had committed no crime, and claimed that they could force me to go to a hospital for an evaluation based upon their "discretion" and hear-say. Best part is the nerve damage from the cuffs. Who needs to feel the side of their thumb anyways?

I've little problem with good cops, I guess I've just never met one. They are like Unicorns. You might be one, and if so good on you.

I do appreciate that you (good) guys will follow the law, if the laws were better you would follow them aswell. I guess I am human and generalize.

I do remember auditing a LE class at my community college. The lesson of the day: How to manufacture probable cause.

...manufacture.

May I ask, and feel free to tell me to go fuck myself. What you were doing the day that they arrested you on probable cause, what was their justification? When we arrest you, we have to at least give you the cause you're being arrested for, whether it be probable cause or an actual crime. Some cops need to be retrained on how to put people in cuffs, the bad thing is, in academy, everything we use on you, we have used on us....so why would these idiots treat someone like that.

[kcchiefs6465]

It's not a victimless crime when one banger kills another banger because he's selling on his turf, is what I mean when I say drug dealers. I could care less how many people want to destroy their bodies with drugs, when another banger is gunned down, that becomes murder.

I agree, I would much rather be investigating murder, robberies and other stuff, than have to go out and arrest someone for dealing drugs, as long as no one gets murdered doing it, so be it.
Do you agree that the drug war is encouraging these murders? I'd remind of the prohibition of alcohol and Al Capone. It is breeding these 'thugs.' It breeds the violence.

[TheTexan]

There are only 3 people who have access to police dash cams. The SGT. LT, CPT. 99% of the time it's handled by the SGT, but as I said... Look at this cops uniform, he was either a LT or CPT and I'm half tempted to say he's def a LT. Which would give him access to all of that, which in turn makes him a dirty fucking pig. Nothing pisses me off more than a dirty cop.

Let's just say that you're correct. That low level cops are held to proper justice, and high level cops are not. This means, when a high level cop commits a crime, the low level cops are complicit in covering it up.

That doesn't exactly make me feel better, that only the higher level cops are corrupt, and the low level cops are only complicit in the corruption.

[Fivezeroes]

We contacted a lawyer. There were about 15-20 cop cars on scene with another few showing up after the fact. All recording but all but one was malfunctioning. [though all cops had their lights flashing] All audio was malfunctioning. They admitted right to our faces that the baggy they found was not in the car. They pointed to a friend and said, you want to be a tough guy, it's yours. Charged him with paraphenalia. [for an empty bag, no trace nothing] They wanted to impound my car for a weed seed. [that's all they found after waiting 45 minutes for a drug dog to trample his dirty ass feet through my car] It freaked my gf out. Male pig ran his hands around her panty line while a female cop looked on. She literally wouldn't look me in the eye. Chief of Police said it didn't sound like his officers. They wouldn't do that. Dropped the charges on a friend. I had to pay my traffic tickets. [maybe I could have fought them but at the time I was just done] A few hundred dollar tickets and that was about that.

My friend in the coma didn't get any money either.

My friend with the broken orbital socket [for not running, while everyone else did] didn't get any money either.

It's a systemic problem.


Sounds like a typical corrupt Chief of Police. Most don't like to believe anything bad reported about their officers. What that officer did to your girlfriend, a minor at that is no less than pedophilia he should have been brought up on charges just for that alone. Again, I apologize you and your friends had to go through something like that.

[Fivezeroes]

Do you agree that the drug war is encouraging these murders? I'd remind of the prohibition of alcohol and Al Capone. It is breeding these 'thugs.' It breeds the violence.


I don't believe a lot of it has to do with drugs, more on the fact that it's a territorial war. Drugs play second fiddle to it. But you make a great point about prohibition, it does make you wonder whether it would stop if drugs were legalized... but then again, would it cause the problem to balloon, yea sure the drugs are legal now but you still have one banger on anothers territory.

[Fivezeroes]

Let's just say that you're correct. That low level cops are held to proper justice, and high level cops are not. This means, when a high level cop commits a crime, the low level cops are complicit in covering it up.

That doesn't exactly make me feel better, that only the higher level cops are corrupt, and the low level cops are only complicit in the corruption.

How do you think it makes me feel, knowing that a LT used his access to police dashcams and audio to pretty much clear himself of any wrong doing. Like I said, dirty fucking pigs.

[AGRP]

It's not a victimless crime when one banger kills another banger because he's selling on his turf, is what I mean when I say drug dealers. I could care less how many people want to destroy their bodies with drugs, when another banger is gunned down, that becomes murder.

I agree, I would much rather be investigating murder, robberies and other stuff, than have to go out and arrest someone for dealing drugs, as long as no one gets murdered doing it, so be it.

Buying and selling is a victimless crime.

The "bangers" would hardly exist if prohibition was lifted. They were not a problem before prohibition. People are forced to buy from bangers because "law abiding" people can not openly sell them, so sketchy people have filled that void. You should know this by now depending on how long you have been here. If you continue to ignore this, then we can only assume you are in cognitive dissonance.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLsCC0LZxkY

[The Gold Standard]

May I ask, and feel free to tell me to go fuck myself. What you were doing the day that they arrested you on probable cause, what was their justification? When we arrest you, we have to at least give you the cause you're being arrested for, whether it be probable cause or an actual crime. Some cops need to be retrained on how to put people in cuffs, the bad thing is, in academy, everything we use on you, we have used on us....so why would these idiots treat someone like that.

I'm glad to hear you aren't this way, but they don't care. They aren't going to get fired. If they kill us they will get a paid vacation and a promotion when they come back. If they don't give us the reason, what are us peasants going to do? You are going to see that you can get away with it too. Pretty much whatever you want. Hopefully it doesn't ruin you.

[kcchiefs6465]

I've had mostly good experiences with the police because I show respect, speak coherently, clean cut and I don't badger them like some. That said, when I bounced at a nightclub in Novi I left work early because we were dead and noticed a gang of chaldeans beating up on some others and so I called the local police. This was at around one in the morning and w/i 5 minutes it seemed like the entire squad showed up. The aggressors were feeding the sergeant a line of bs on what happened so I yelled over claiming that wasn't the case. And, then the guy flipped out on me and told his officers to put me in my car or I'd be arrested for public disorder. As I'm filing the report, there was an officer on either side of me outside the car and it was clear they were looking in the car for anything they could find in plain view. They clearly knew where I worked and what I did based on the suit I was wearing yet the disheveled and unfit sergeant acted heavy anyway despite a nasty incident was happening where two dudes were getting their asses beat all over the parking lot. As I left, I told the one officer that I was glad they came and stopped the fight but that I'd probably just let it go next time based on how they treated me, the guy that initiated the contact to stop the violence. That said, I have cousins and others that are sheriffs around here and they're hiring so I'm on the short list.
I've seen this one. Was someone recording from across the street? PM if you need.

[TheTexan]

Sounds like a typical corrupt Chief of Police.

Is it that corruption rises to the top?

Or that power corrupts?

Neither conclusion drawn has very good implications for the department as a whole.

[The Gold Standard]

I don't believe a lot of it has to do with drugs, more on the fact that it's a territorial war. Drugs play second fiddle to it. But you make a great point about prohibition, it does make you wonder whether it would stop if drugs were legalized... but then again, would it cause the problem to balloon, yea sure the drugs are legal now but you still have one banger on anothers territory.

They guard their sales territory. They don't give a fuck about guarding that land they don't even own. Those are their customers. If their customers can go to any drug store for their needs, they aren't going to start attacking drug stores, they will do something else.

[bolil]

May I ask, and feel free to tell me to go fuck myself. What you were doing the day that they arrested you on probable cause, what was their justification? When we arrest you, we have to at least give you the cause you're being arrested for, whether it be probable cause or an actual crime. Some cops need to be retrained on how to put people in cuffs, the bad thing is, in academy, everything we use on you, we have used on us....so why would these idiots treat someone like that.

There was no arrest, I was sleeping they woke me up and were standing over my bed. Their justification is that "I was a threat to myself" (hear say, no proof just the words of a room mate whose girlfriend's advances were spurned by me). They entered my room while I was sleeping, woke me up, put me in cuffs and said, "Your not under arrest, but your coming with us." I don't know why they treated me like that, but I will never put any faith in a cop again. Keep in mind, we have no way of telling if your a good cop or a bad cop, and usually we find out too late.

EDIT: I did destroy some of my own property, with an axe, a laptop that was broken to be specific.

I appreciate your being here, and letting us hash this garbage out.

If prohibition were ended these "gang bangers" would have access to the courts and to protection under the law.

[Fivezeroes]

I'm glad to hear you aren't this way, but they don't care. They aren't going to get fired. If they kill us they will get a paid vacation and a promotion when they come back. If they don't give us the reason, what are us peasants going to do? You are going to see that you can get away with it too. Pretty much whatever you want. Hopefully it doesn't ruin you.


In four years I haven't crossed into that corrupt territory, as long as I can make it to 20, I'll be retiring. So far I'm living up to my standards, I don't believe I'll ever cross over.

What you have to realize is even with drugs legalized, unless they start selling it OTC at the pharmacy, you're still going to have your territorial disputes between said bangers. I'm all for the legalization, if they put it on store shelves like they did with alcohol after prohibition was lifted, then even the territorial wars would go away, because neither side would have anything to sell. I just wish, that our dumbass government could see this.

[LibForestPaul]

Are you Deputy, Officer, or Trooper. I assume not Federal.
Large city or county/town.

Have you noticed recruitment standards chaning, and not for the better.

[sluggo]

Powdered or glazed?

[kcchiefs6465]

I don't believe a lot of it has to do with drugs, more on the fact that it's a territorial war. Drugs play second fiddle to it. But you make a great point about prohibition, it does make you wonder whether it would stop if drugs were legalized... but then again, would it cause the problem to balloon, yea sure the drugs are legal now but you still have one banger on anothers territory.
Why is the one banger on 'another's turf?' Because drug profits from said area are lucrative. Yes, ending the drug war would solve this problem in most cities. Cities that have a history of gang warfare maybe not, but it would workd towards peace. Like LA or Chicago, people have been dying for so long that it would not end overnight, that is not to say that a recognization that drug laws hurt the problem would not start to fix the problem. After all, look at Ricky Ross and Danilo Blandon. [/Ollie North and CO.] As I recall, the crack cocaine epidemic seriously fueled gang violence. In all of the major drug hubs.

[Fivezeroes]

They guard their sales territory. They don't give a fuck about guarding that land they don't even own. Those are their customers. If their customers can go to any drug store for their needs, they aren't going to start attacking drug stores, they will do something else.


Yea, I just hashed that out, if you could get all your drugs in one place, the dealers would go bye bye. If only such a world existed.

[Fivezeroes]

Powdered or glazed?


My kind of question, was wondering when someone would ask it. Glazed of course! powder messes up my pants. lol.

[Fivezeroes]

Are you Deputy, Officer, or Trooper. I assume not Federal.
Large city or county/town.

Have you noticed recruitment standards chaning, and not for the better.


I am an officer, while we do have both troopers and deputies (they handle the jails). I decided to go the officer route. My cousin is a deputy, being in the jail all day long didn't seem like it was much fun.

[Fivezeroes]

There was no arrest, I was sleeping they woke me up and were standing over my bed. Their justification is that "I was a threat to myself" (hear say, no proof just the words of a room mate whose girlfriend's advances were spurned by me). They entered my room while I was sleeping, woke me up, put me in cuffs and said, "Your not under arrest, but your coming with us." I don't know why they treated me like that, but I will never put any faith in a cop again. Keep in mind, we have no way of telling if your a good cop or a bad cop, and usually we find out too late.

EDIT: I did destroy some of my own property, with an axe, a laptop that was broken to be specific.

I appreciate your being here, and letting us hash this garbage out.

If prohibition were ended these "gang bangers" would have access to the courts and to protection under the law.


I don't know what their rationale was or why they cuffed you the way they did. But, when we receive calls about someone possibly wanting to harm themselves, we have to action and try to save a life. Now, I'm not condoning what those officers did, especially not with how they handcuffed you and cause you to have perm nerve damage in your thumb but if I had to guess, I'd say they were doing it to try to prevent a possible suicide. Did they take you to a psych ward, if they did, then they were doing their job and again wanting to protect you, but did it in the worse possible way.

[Fivezeroes]

Is it that corruption rises to the top?

Or that power corrupts?

Neither conclusion drawn has very good implications for the department as a whole.


You know what they say about absolute power.... sadly, some get drawn in by its evil sway. I'm actually glad, our chief isn't like that.

[bolil]

I don't know what their rationale was or why they cuffed you the way they did. But, when we receive calls about someone possibly wanting to harm themselves, we have to action and try to save a life. Now, I'm not condoning what those officers did, especially not with how they handcuffed you and cause you to have perm nerve damage in your thumb but if I had to guess, I'd say they were doing it to try to prevent a possible suicide. Did they take you to a psych ward, if they did, then they were doing their job and again wanting to protect you, but did it in the worse possible way.

Oh, so I could call the cops and say "So and So is threatening him/herself" and you would go there, and cuff them WITHOUT EVIDENCE because thats pretty much what happened to me? They, and he, are just lucky I am a student without money or connections. If you had to guess. Lol, if I had to guess a pig is always going to grunt. Im shocked at my own stupidity even getting into this thread. Well, officer friendly, may you get your pension canine murder free.

[coastie]

I don't know what their rationale was or why they cuffed you the way they did. But, when we receive calls about someone possibly wanting to harm themselves, we have to action and try to save a life. Now, I'm not condoning what those officers did, especially not with how they handcuffed you and cause you to have perm nerve damage in your thumb but if I had to guess, I'd say they were doing it to try to prevent a possible suicide. Did they take you to a psych ward, if they did, then they were doing their job and again wanting to protect you, but did it in the worse possible way.

http://www.picvalley.net/u/2293/2998894334065064101362712225p9rrmx5cvcU3LO5AnV3W.G IF (http://www.picvalley.net/v.php?p=u/2293/2998894334065064101362712225p9rrmx5cvcU3LO5AnV3W.G IF)

Holy God. You been out of the academy for what, 6 months?

[Fivezeroes]

http://www.picvalley.net/u/2293/2998894334065064101362712225p9rrmx5cvcU3LO5AnV3W.G IF (http://www.picvalley.net/v.php?p=u/2293/2998894334065064101362712225p9rrmx5cvcU3LO5AnV3W.G IF)

Holy God. You been out of the academy for what, 6 months?


Going on 3.5 years, now. You must have been military police, you guys do it differently?

[kcchiefs6465]

I'll come right out to say it, have you researched the crack cocaine epidemic thoroughly? The high reaching authority granted to the DEA, and co. to allow large shipments of cocaine to cross the border on military planes? I would suggest looking into Norwin Meneses, Don Tyson, Danilo Blandon, Ollie North, Barry Seal, and a host of others. You might want to ask why, Puerto Rican DEA, having known Norwin Meneses is a Class One narcotics trafficker, was allowed to operate with impunity for his career. Now I'm a little rusty here, but I'd suggest looking into his sons and nephews in the California Bay Area. [the crack cocaine epidemic] [I believe they were directly related, maybe they were only 'brothers'] Look into John Deutsch. Look into CIA head and later president George Bush Sr. Look into Reagan violating the Boland Amendment. You have to take all these variables into consideration when trying to determine the cause of the turf wars. Though it had been going on before 1979-1980 in LA, drug money definitely fueled it. At least, eventually fueled it. Look at the Cocaine Wars of Miami through the '70s and '80s and tell me, did we not partially create this problem?

[Fivezeroes]

Oh, so I could call the cops and say "So and So is threatening him/herself" and you would go there, and cuff them WITHOUT EVIDENCE because thats pretty much what happened to me? They, and he, are just lucky I am a student without money or connections. If you had to guess. Lol, if I had to guess a pig is always going to grunt. Im shocked at my own stupidity even getting into this thread. Well, officer friendly, may you get your pension canine murder free.


Look, you said someone said that you were a danger to yourself. Even if they wanted to just question you they couldn't. What if they had let you go, and just dismissed this girls claim and you had committed suicide. That right there gets the PD sued, due to negligence. And judging from your reply, they took you directly to a psych ward to get you checked out, they were doing their jobs. Whether you like it or not. The person you should be pissed off at is the girl that lied on you and said you were a danger to yourself.

[bolil]

Look, you said someone said that you were a danger to yourself. Even if they wanted to just question you they couldn't. What if they had let you go, and just dismissed this girls claim and you had committed suicide. That right there gets the PD sued, due to negligence. And judging from your reply, they took you directly to a psych ward to get you checked out, they were doing their jobs. Whether you like it or not. The person you should be pissed off at is the girl that lied on you and said you were a danger to yourself.

No, the cops that kidnapped me. I expect people to lie, I don't expect people to kidnap me. Again, no evidence to indicate suicidal intent. Do sleeping people usually kill themselves, have you read anything I wrote. Seems like your okay with that, though? I suppose you have pulled similar shit.

What if that ride had so traumatized me that it led me to kill myself?

[Fivezeroes]

I'll come right out to say it, have you researched the crack cocaine epidemic thoroughly? The high reaching authorities granted to the DEA, and co. to allow large shipments of cocaine to cross the border on military planes? I would suggest looking into Norwin Meneses, Don Tyson, Danilo Blandon, Ollie North, Barry Seal, and a host of others. You might want to ask why, Puerto Rican DEA, having known Norwin Meneses is a Class One narcotics trafficker, was allowed to operate with impunity for his career. Now I'm a little rusty here, but I'd suggest looking into his sons and nephews in the California Bay Area. [the crack cocaine epidemic] [I believe they were directly related, maybe they were only 'brothers'] Look into John Deutsch. Look into CIA head and later president George Bush Sr. Look in Reagan violating the Boland Amendment. You have to take all these variables into consideration when trying to determine the cause of the turf wars. Though it had been going on before 1979-1980 in LA, drug money definitely fueled it. At least, eventually fueled it. Look at the Cocaine Wars of Miami through the '70s and '80s and tell me, did we not partially create this problem?


I can't say that I have, but I will look into it more. As I have stated all along though, if the government would legalize it and start selling it in every mom and pop store, drug dealers would be a thing of the past, gang wars would probably be a thing of the past as well. It would also allow us cops to focus on other important stuff.

[bolil]

I can't say that I have, but I will look into it more. As I have stated all along though, if the government would legalize it and start selling it in every mom and pop store, drug dealers would be a thing of the past, gang wars would probably be a thing of the past as well. It would also allow us cops to focus on other important stuff.

Like finding new jobs.

[Fivezeroes]

No, the cops that kidnapped me. I expect people to lie, I don't expect people to kidnap me. Again, no evidence to indicate suicidal intent. Do sleeping people usually kill themselves, have you read anything I wrote. Seems like your okay with that, though? I suppose you have pulled similar shit.

What if that ride had so traumatized me that it led me to kill myself?

If that ride had traumatized you so badly that you wanted to kill yourself, then I don't know. You want to know WHY shit like that was implemented, because of people being sue happy. No, I've never put someone in cuffs without telling them where they're going. I have responded to suicides though and be glad you had someone there that cared enough about you to even call the cops to have them come cart you off to be treated. Most suicides don't have people like that.

[Fivezeroes]

Like finding new jobs.

No, there will always be a need for the police, just because drugs get legalized, doesn't mean murder, rape and other horrible things go away.

[Expatriate]

1. Surprisingly enough, a lot of the bad candidates in my academy class all washed out, over in another thread, I posted about a potential that couldn't stop shooting fake hostages.

2. I'm not 100% sure about everyone, but I know of at least five out of the 15 that made it through, wanted to be cops to protect those that couldn't protect themselves,

3. I think that Dorner had some massive dirt on the LAPD and that he was murdered. While there is a sense of brotherhood, all of us have an even bigger sense of justice and wouldn't let corruption fly if we knew about it.

4. Drugs in my opinion should be legalized, it would save a lot of tax payer money and would clear up jail cells for the real criminals out there, the rapist, murderers etc. Did you know that someone in possession of an 8ball of crack, will get almost as much time as a rapist. Where's the justice in that? As for the whole non-violent thing, there have been times when I've had a pothead resist, most of the time you can talk them down, the last thing I want to have to do is slam someone into the ground hurting them.

What I meant by force was not so much an escalation to physical violence due to someone resisting arrest, but the act of threatening a totally non-violent drug dealer/user with force if they do not submit to being cuffed and taken in. Some refer to it as initiation of force. It's probably the #1 reason I would not become a cop, although I can see how some would consider the work they get to do in curtailing violent crime to be worth having to enforce other laws they disagree with.

Do many of your fellow cops share your views on drugs?

Has your department gotten any of the Homeland Security grants and equipment I've heard about, and what do you and your fellow officers think of the increased militarization of police? Are you familiar with the Founding Fathers' concerns about standing armies and soldiers deployed among us, and are you or any of your coworkers concerned about this?

Do you ever refer to or think of people who are not cops as "civilians" or "citizens" as if you are something different even though police are supposed to be a civilian organization?

Seems to me that the idea of police equipped like soldiers (SWAT) busting into private homes and confiscating property to be auctioned off later sounds an awful lot like what the Third Amendment was written to prohibit, and the Second Amendment was written to discourage or prevent. Again, this is mostly because of the drug war, but what are your views on that sort of thing?

[kcchiefs6465]

I can't say that I have, but I will look into it more. As I have stated all along though, if the government would legalize it and start selling it in every mom and pop store, drug dealers would be a thing of the past, gang wars would probably be a thing of the past as well. It would also allow us cops to focus on other important stuff.
Check out Gary Webb, [Excellent journalist] Mike Ruppert, [LAPD Sheriff] Mike Castillo. [DEA] Please read Dark Alliance by Gary Webb if you want some more understanding. I can recommend more books.

Please watch the CIA director when asked if they smuggled cocaine into the United States.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT4XA18cj3I

[Pericles]

We'll be able to trust cops when we can trust them to hold each other to account for wrongdoing. The "thin blue line" is seditious in nature and is a primary cause of mistrust between LEO and citizen.

If there are good cops, there wouldn't be any bad cops.

[bolil]

If that ride had traumatized you so badly that you wanted to kill yourself, then I don't know. You want to know WHY shit like that was implemented, because of people being sue happy. No, I've never put someone in cuffs without telling them where they're going. I have responded to suicides though and be glad you had someone there that cared enough about you to even call the cops to have them come cart you off to be treated. Most suicides don't have people like that.

Is it a genetic thing with cops to go with hear say? Here it is again. On a forum no less. Your comprehension is either terrible or you are just being a jerk.

Your a cop, so it is a toss up.

[bolil]

No, there will always be a need for the police, just because drugs get legalized, doesn't mean murder, rape and other horrible things go away.

Considering the percentage of drug related arrests, if drugs were legalized most cops would be out of a job. 90% of the prison population for drug offenses.

[TheTexan]

Look, you said someone said that you were a danger to yourself. Even if they wanted to just question you they couldn't. What if they had let you go, and just dismissed this girls claim and you had committed suicide. That right there gets the PD sued, due to negligence. And judging from your reply, they took you directly to a psych ward to get you checked out, they were doing their jobs. Whether you like it or not. The person you should be pissed off at is the girl that lied on you and said you were a danger to yourself.

The courts have come to the conclusion (and I agree with this) that cops do not have an obligation to help or save anyone.

[Fivezeroes]

Is it a genetic thing with cops to go with hear say? Here it is again. On a forum no less. Your comprehension is either terrible or you are just being a jerk.


Depends on what the hear say is. When we get reports of someone wanting to do bodily harm to themselves then we have to take it serious. Because there is always that what-if factor. You may not want to believe it, but, that cop had your best interest in mind. You have to look at it from his perspective, is the threat this girl said you made legit, if so, does he ignore it and risk losing his lively hood because he failed to do what he swore to do and that was protect the innocent, or does he do what he did and possibly saved a life, no matter how much he became hated for it? I'm not just looking at this from a cops perspective either.

[bolil]

The point is THERE WAS NO THREAT. THERE WAS BITTERNESS AND HEAR SAY and power tripping raw bacon.

[coastie]

Going on 3.5 years, now. You must have been military police, you guys do it differently?

USCG Boarding Officer. Worked with State and Locals almost everyday, many of my stations were full of reservists' whose day jobs were police/sheriffs/state troopers, etc. I can only think of ONE out of those probably 25 guys over the years who was worth a shit, a Sgt. for the local PD here...somewhere he was forced to leave after arresting a local judge's kid for DUI, by the way. He's now active duty Coast Guard.

As far as potential mental cases go, I didn't handle those things, those are state laws, not federal. But, as I said earlier, I know and worked with enough cops over the years to know my best interests are not their number one concern, and now that it's mentioned, have heard some say they've locked people up like this, just out of spite...

[Fivezeroes]

The courts have come to the conclusion (and I agree with this) that cops do not have an obligation to help or save anyone.


I wish I still had my manual I'd show you the exact paragraph where it states what to do in the case of veiled threats, such as a veiled threat to commit bodily harm to one-self.

[kcchiefs6465]

Please watch this video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT4XA18cj3I

[bolil]

Depends on what the hear say is. When we get reports of someone wanting to do bodily harm to themselves then we have to take it serious. Because there is always that what-if factor. You may not want to believe it, but, that cop had your best interest in mind. You have to look at it from his perspective, is the threat this girl said you made legit, if so, does he ignore it and risk losing his lively hood because he failed to do what he swore to do and that was protect the innocent, or does he do what he did and possibly saved a life, no matter how much he became hated for it? I'm not just looking at this from a cops perspective either.

And in the process threw so much shit my way I am still shoveling. Boy, Im sure glad that cop is around. What do you mean what the hear say is? hear say is hear say... duh.

[bolil]

I wish I still had my manual I'd show you the exact paragraph where it states what to do in the case of veiled threats, such as a veiled threat to commit bodily harm to one-self.

Yeah, what is veiled? A body gesture? Perhaps a strange blink? Hear say is bullshit. Everytime. You know, I heard from my buddy that this forum dweller named Fivezeroes told him that he planned on shooting nuns. Better call the freaking cops so they can help him.

[coastie]

Depends on what the hear say is. When we get reports of someone wanting to do bodily harm to themselves then we have to take it serious. Because there is always that what-if factor. You may not want to believe it, but, that cop had your best interest in mind. You have to look at it from his perspective, is the threat this girl said you made legit, if so, does he ignore it and risk losing his lively hood because he failed to do what he swore to do and that was protect the innocent, or does he do what he did and possibly saved a life, no matter how much he became hated for it? I'm not just looking at this from a cops perspective either.

I'm sorry, can you name the case law that says the cops are responsible for citizen safety? There's several that say otherwise. Cops don't even lose their jobs for outright murdering people, you think one would lose his job for someone killing themselves or another if they don't show up to a hear-say call? C'mon, I even had more common sense than this when I first started out.

[Fivezeroes]

USCG Boarding Officer. Worked with State and Locals almost everyday, many of my stations were full of reservists' whose day jobs were police/sheriffs/state troopers, etc. I can only think of ONE out of those probably 25 guys over the years who was worth a shit, a Sgt. for the local PD here...somewhere he was forced to leave after arresting a local judge's kid for DUI, by the way. He's now active duty Coast Guard.

As far as potential mental cases go, I didn't handle those things, those are state laws, not federal. But, as I said earlier, I know and worked with enough cops over the years to know my best interests are not their number one concern, and now that it's mentioned, have heard some say they've locked people up like this, just out of spite...


Usually with potential mental cases or section 8's as I believe the military calls them, we pick them up and take them to a psych ward and drop them off for eval. Once that is done, the psychiatrist decides whether or not there needs to be an emergency hearing to have said eval locked up for treatment. As I told bolil, I don't condone what they were doing to him, but as I said, I do believe that in their minds that they truly thought they were saving his life.

[bolil]

Usually with potential mental cases or section 8's as I believe the military calls them, we pick them up and take them to a psych ward and drop them off for eval. Once that is done, the psychiatrist decides whether or not there needs to be an emergency hearing to have said eval locked up for treatment. As I told bolil, I don't condone what they were doing to him, but as I said, I do believe that in their minds that they truly thought they were saving his life.

Doing is right. Those trips are documented and I don't suppose I will be able to purchase firearms in the future. Because of an accusation and either spiteful or stupid cops.

[Fivezeroes]

I'm sorry, can you name the case law that says the cops are responsible for citizen safety? There's several that say otherwise. Cops don't even lose their jobs for outright murdering people, you think one would lose his job for someone killing themselves or another if they don't show up to a hear-say call? C'mon, I even had more common sense than this when I first started out.


If a cop investigates a hear-say call, and then determines that the person is a danger to themselves or others, they need to be dropped off at a psych ward for further eval. I'm not sure of any state law that says we have to, but, again, people are sue happy these days. And I don't know what oath people take these days but mine was to serve and protect the public and to uphold the Constitutions of both Virginia and the United States.

Other hear say stuff, such as someone saying that he or she overheard them saying they were going to rob a bank, is pretty much ignored, but in this day and age when suicide is on the rise, you can't take any chances again, due to sue happy people.

[Fivezeroes]

Doing is right. Those trips are documented and I don't suppose I will be able to purchase firearms in the future. Because of an accusation and either spiteful or stupid cops.


It depends, were you forcefully admitted to the psych ward or were you just evaluated and released. If it was an eval and release or you agreed to be admitted and didn't have to be forcefully admitted by a judge, then you can still purchase a firearm.

[Fivezeroes]

Yeah, what is veiled? A body gesture? Perhaps a strange blink? Hear say is bullshit. Everytime. You know, I heard from my buddy that this forum dweller named Fivezeroes told him that he planned on shooting nuns. Better call the freaking cops so they can help him.


Careful now, don't go saying anything like that. In Virginia even hinting at online threats is a class five felony. (I'd ignore that one, that's one dumbass law)

[seapilot]

Fivezeros, you must have realized that you opened a can of worms?

On another subject besides your job how did you get interested in Liberty and Ron Paul?

[Fivezeroes]

Fivezeros, you must have realized that you opened a can of worms?

On another subject besides your job how did you get interested in Liberty and Ron Paul?


I kept hearing the name of Ron Paul, Ron Paul, Ron Paul, so went to google and started researching him and the more that I found out, the more I realized how awesome a guy he is. I would have loved nothing more than to see him in the white house right now.


and yea, I realize I opened a can of worms, but, it's all good debate. Maybe eventually I can convince some of these guys, that we're not all bad.

[bolil]

Careful now, don't go saying anything like that. In Virginia even hinting at online threats is a class five felony. (I'd ignore that one, that's one dumbass law)

Seeing as there is PROOF of a threat. Hear say leaves no proof, and without behavioral proof (sleeping people don't generally kill themselves) there is none.

Ill take my first over your sensibilities.

Anyways, enough of that, get to some other peoples questions. That wound is raw, and I don't mean to hijack your thread.

Oh shit, I said Hijack, I didn't mean it I swear... pffft.

[coastie]

If a cop investigates a hear-say call, and then determines that the person is a danger to themselves or others, they need to be dropped off at a psych ward for further eval. I'm not sure of any state law that says we have to, but, again, people are sue happy these days. And I don't know what oath people take these days but mine was to serve and protect the public and to uphold the Constitutions of both Virginia and the United States.

Other hear say stuff, such as someone saying that he or she overheard them saying they were going to rob a bank, is pretty much ignored, but in this day and age when suicide is on the rise, you can't take any chances again, due to sue happy people.

Um, you're supposed to be enforcing laws(which you are unsure of, wtf?)-not worried about whether your dept. would be sued.

I know how that process works, a past roommate was carted off in this manner(I didn't call, I wasn't even home). He got pretty drunk, and said some shit alluding to suicide(word of mouth, again, I wasn't there)...He killed himself anyway 2 weeks later, right after he got out of the psych ward. Knowing what I know now, I imagine it was because of the harrowing experience of being beaten and tazed in your own home, his experience in the ward, and the drugs they forced upon him. I'll admit he had issues(not suicidal that I ever saw), but I'm sure his experience hurt more than it helped.

[Fivezeroes]

Seeing as their is PROOF of a threat. Hear say leaves no proof, and without behavioral proof (sleeping people don't generally kill themselves) there is none.

Ill take my first over your sensibilities.


What I'm saying is careful on making online threats, they are felonies. Say you were joking around about killing a friend. Just a word of advice, not meant to infringe on your first at all.

The thing is how was this officer to know that you were indeed asleep on your own accord and not asleep with the help of some other drugs, like a large quantity used to off yourself. You say sleeping people don't generally kill themselves, well, most people who are suspected of wanting to harm themselves tend to OD and thus they would be asleep, when the high dosage took effect. I can't convince you that what he did, he believed was right.

I do thank you for the debate though, I thank all of you for it. It's fun when people can debate without things going into name calling, etc.

[bolil]

What I'm saying is careful on making online threats, they are felonies. Say you were joking around about killing a friend. Just a word of advice, not meant to infringe on your first at all.

The thing is how was this officer to know that you were indeed asleep on your own accord and not asleep with the help of some other drugs, like a large quantity used to off yourself. You say sleeping people don't generally kill themselves, well, most people who are suspected of wanting to harm themselves tend to OD and thus they would be asleep, when the high dosage took effect. I can't convince you that what he did, he believed was right.

I do thank you for the debate though, I thank all of you for it. It's fun when people can debate without things going into name calling, etc.

I actually hadn't thought of that. It is possible I am wrong in my sentiments regarding this. And I didn't make any threats, I ran through a hypothetical to better elucidate my feelings.

[coastie]

Careful now, don't go saying anything like that. In Virginia even hinting at online threats is a class five felony. (I'd ignore that one, that's one dumbass law)

What other "dumbass laws" do you ignore, (Felonies, at that)?

"Dumbass laws" make up 90% of your job..........

I see now, some laws you'll ignore(even Felonies-wow), and others you'll enforce because you have to put food on the table, or I guess just because you personally agree with them.

[Fivezeroes]

Um, you're supposed to be enforcing laws(which you are unsure of, wtf?)-not worried about whether your dept. would be sued.

I know how that process works, a past roommate was carted off in this manner(I didn't call, I wasn't even home). He got pretty drunk, and said some shit alluding to suicide(word of mouth, again, I wasn't there)...He killed himself anyway 2 weeks later, right after he got out of the psych ward. Knowing what I know now, I imagine it was because of the harrowing experience of being beaten and tazed in your own home, his experience in the ward, and the drugs they forced upon him. I'll admit he had issues(not suicidal that I ever saw), but I'm sure his experience hurt more than it helped.


I am sorry to hear about your friend, sadly if he was already suicidal there wasn't much anyone could do about it anyway. Most people don't show they're suicidal until it's too late. My dad for example. Believe it or not, cops aren't walking law dictionaries, just because I can't name one off the top of my head doesn't mean one doesn't exist.

As we all know, all states have different laws, here in VA it's a felony to threaten someone online, whether jokingly or not. Wherever you are it could be different, again, just because I don't know of one doesn't mean it's not there.

Again, I truly am sorry about your friend offing himself, suicide is a perm solution to a temporary problem.

[Fivezeroes]

I actually hadn't thought of that. It is possible I am wrong in my sentiments regarding this. And I didn't make any threats, I ran through a hypothetical to better elucidate my feelings.



I know, but, if you ever want to just remember, that some states have stupid laws like this.

[Fivezeroes]

What other "dumbass laws" do you ignore, (Felonies, at that)?

"Dumbass laws" make up 90% of your job..........

I see now, some laws you'll ignore(even Felonies-wow), and others you'll enforce because you have to put food on the table, or I guess just because you personally agree with them.


Are you trying to tell me, you being former LE, that you would arrest someone for making the online comment "Coastie, one day I'm gonna m---d-- you"? I mean come on, people ask me all the time whether or not I'd enforce dumbass laws, and this is one that I'd just laugh at.

[kcchiefs6465]

Must Read Books (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?79751-Must-Read-Books)

I'd recommend, 'Take the Rich off Welfare,' Mark Zepezaur
I'd recommend, 'Killing Hope: CIA Interventions Since WWII,' William Blum
I'd recommend, 'Democracy: America's Deadliest Export,' William Blum
I'd recommend, 'Rogue State,' William Blum
I'd recommend, 'The Creature from Jekyll Island,' G. Edward Griffin
I'd recommend, 'Dark Alliance,' Gary Webb
I'd recommend, 'Powderburns: Cocaine, Contras, and the Drug War' Celerino Castillo III [DEA agent]

[coastie]

I am sorry to hear about your friend, sadly if he was already suicidal there wasn't much anyone could do about it anyway. Most people don't show they're suicidal until it's too late. My dad for example. Believe it or not, cops aren't walking law dictionaries, just because I can't name one off the top of my head doesn't mean one doesn't exist.

As we all know, all states have different laws, here in VA it's a felony to threaten someone online, whether jokingly or not. Wherever you are it could be different, again, just because I don't know of one doesn't mean it's not there.

Again, I truly am sorry about your friend offing himself, suicide is a perm solution to a temporary problem.

I, nor anyone else, recall him being suicidal before this experience. Again, he was drunk, and to this day it's still unclear what exactly he said. In a morbid twist, she is also no longer with us, car accident a year later...so we'll never really know for sure, but am 99% sure he wasn't suicidal, had no reason whatsoever to be(no recent break-up with girlfriend, didn't do any drugs, at all, was healthy, etc, etc).

[Fivezeroes]

Must Read Books (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?79751-Must-Read-Books)

I'd recommend, 'Take the Rich off Welfare,' Mark Zepezaur
I'd recommend, 'Killing Hope: CIA Interventions Since WWII,' William Blum
I'd recommend, 'Democracy: America's Deadliest Export,' William Blum
I'd recommend, 'Rogue State,' William Blum
I'd recommend, 'The Creature from Jekyll Island,' G. Edward Griffin
I'd recommend, 'Dark Alliance,' Gary Webb
I'd recommend, 'Powderburns: Cocaine, Contras, and the Drug War' Celerino Castillo III [DEA agent]


Will read them, thanks for the suggestions.

[Fivezeroes]

I, nor anyone else, recall him being suicidal before this experience. Again, he was drunk, and to this day it's still unclear what exactly he said. In a morbid twist, she is also no longer with us, car accident a year later...so we'll never really know for sure, but am 99% sure he wasn't suicidal, had no reason whatsoever to be(no recent break-up with girlfriend, didn't do any drugs, at all, was healthy, etc, etc).


Same with my dad, nothing out of the ordinary until we got the call that he put a pistol to his head. Sometimes people hide their feelings so well that not even family and close friends know until it's too late.

[kcchiefs6465]

Will read them, thanks for the suggestions.
You will not be able to put them down. Try one out and research independently. I really have no idea how I forgot Ron Paul but 'Liberty Defined' is a great start.

[Expatriate]

Posted this earlier but it kinda got buried in the debate:

Has your department gotten any of the Homeland Security grants and equipment I've heard about, and what do you and your fellow officers think of the increased militarization of police? Are you familiar with the Founding Fathers' concerns about standing armies and soldiers deployed among us, and are you or any of your coworkers concerned about this?

Do you ever refer to or think of people who are not cops as "civilians" or "citizens" as if you are something different even though police are supposed to be a civilian organization?

Seems to me that the idea of police equipped like soldiers (SWAT) busting into private homes and confiscating property to be auctioned off later sounds an awful lot like what the Third Amendment was written to prohibit, and the Second Amendment was written to discourage or prevent. Again, this is mostly because of the drug war, but what are your views on that sort of thing?

[coastie]

Are you trying to tell me, you being former LE, that you would arrest someone for making the online comment "Coastie, one day I'm gonna m---d-- you"? I mean come on, people ask me all the time whether or not I'd enforce dumbass laws, and this is one that I'd just laugh at.

But that's my whole point...when you find yourself picking and choosing laws to enforce-no matter how mundane in your eyes(or in reality), then it comes into question what you are really doing...

Believe me, I've tossed joints off of boats before when no other officers were looking, and have said things were just kosher when they really weren't - why ruin a boater or fisherman's lives over some "dumbass law"?.

The FIRST time it happened, I began to question what I was doing. It got the point my last few years in, that I never cited anyone for anything "minor"(90% of the laws I was enforcing)-even violations I could have legally terminated your voyage over. That's when I knew, for sure-it was time to stop. I didn't re-enlist.

[bolil]

Believe me, I've tossed joints off of boats before when no other officers were looking, and have said things were just kosher when they really weren't - why ruin a boater or fisherman's lives over some "dumbass law"?.


I try not to drink, but would buy you a round for that. Coastie for admiral.

[Fivezeroes]

But that's my whole point...when you find yourself picking and choosing laws to enforce-no matter how mundane in your eyes(or in reality), then it comes into question what you are really doing...

Believe me, I've tossed joints off of boats before when no other officers were looking, and have said things were just kosher when they really weren't - why ruin a boater or fisherman's lives over some "dumbass law"?.

The FIRST time it happened, I began to question what I was doing. It got the point my last few years in, that I never cited anyone for anything "minor"(90% of the laws I was enforcing)-even violations I could have legally terminated your voyage over. That's when I knew, for sure-it was time to stop. I didn't re-enlist.


Luckily international waters and well the ocean in general isn't my jurisdiction. I would likely do the same thing you did. I'm not sure about CG whether you guys have camera's up your ass 24/7 or not. But it's kind of hard to just toss things with the dashcam recording my every move.

[jclay2]

How come I don't get thanked for my "service"?

How come I don't get to board an airplane first?

I work at a very dangerous job (much more so than a cop) supplying a product that, without which, life as you know it would cease to exist, and you would, in all likelihood, die.

And I don't put a gun to your head for my pay or for kicks or as part of my job.

Thread Winner

[coastie]

Luckily international waters and well the ocean in general isn't my jurisdiction. I would likely do the same thing you did. I'm not sure about CG whether you guys have camera's up your ass 24/7 or not. But it's kind of hard to just toss things with the dashcam recording my every move.

No cameras while I was in, not sure if that's changed in the last 3 years or not, but I highly doubt it. And the dashcam only records what's in front of the car.;)

[Fivezeroes]

Posted this earlier but it kinda got buried in the debate:

Has your department gotten any of the Homeland Security grants and equipment I've heard about, and what do you and your fellow officers think of the increased militarization of police? Are you familiar with the Founding Fathers' concerns about standing armies and soldiers deployed among us, and are you or any of your coworkers concerned about this?

Do you ever refer to or think of people who are not cops as "civilians" or "citizens" as if you are something different even though police are supposed to be a civilian organization?

Seems to me that the idea of police equipped like soldiers (SWAT) busting into private homes and confiscating property to be auctioned off later sounds an awful lot like what the Third Amendment was written to prohibit, and the Second Amendment was written to discourage or prevent. Again, this is mostly because of the drug war, but what are your views on that sort of thing?



My apologies, I didn't see your post.

1. As far as I know we have not received any new gear from homeland security. Whether SWAT has or not, I don't know. I have a somewhat negative stance on cops being militarize, it seems like the FEDS are trying to turn us into the next Gestapo, I'm not the only officer that feels this way. But, as long as we keep the current police chief, everything should stay the way it is. I believe that the founding fathers, were right to not want to have a standing army on American soil, they fought so that we weren't occupied, so why is it our own government is trying to occupy us? Again, a lot of my brothers are concerned about the steady decline in this once great nation.

2. I don't call them civilians, If I started referring to people as civilians it would mean I was militarized. I do refer to them as citizens, but not out of disrespect or because I think I'm better, it's because they are a citizen of my community, just as I am a citizen of the community, just because I wear a badge doesn't automatically make me some kind of God to them, they in my eyes are my equal, I'm just there to uphold the law.

3. I don't believe anyone has the right to bust into your home, unless you have put someone in danger. Such as you kidnapped someone or you're holding hostages. OR if they have a warrant and they're 100% sure they have the right home and again, the person is a danger. Warrantless searches are imo, off limits. The constitution forbids it.

[AGRP]

In four years I haven't crossed into that corrupt territory, as long as I can make it to 20, I'll be retiring. So far I'm living up to my standards, I don't believe I'll ever cross over.

What you have to realize is even with drugs legalized, unless they start selling it OTC at the pharmacy, you're still going to have your territorial disputes between said bangers. I'm all for the legalization, if they put it on store shelves like they did with alcohol after prohibition was lifted, then even the territorial wars would go away, because neither side would have anything to sell. I just wish, that our dumbass government could see this.

Not really. Theres no point in risking lives over what would become cheap substances once legalized. Before prohibition, people who were too lazy to run to the store simply ordered it from a woolworths catalog and got it delivered buy a clean and friendly delivery service. Ive never seen usps or fedex get in fire fights over turf.

[bolil]

Not really. Theres no point in risking lives over what would become a cheap substances once legalized. Before prohibition, people who were too lazy to run to the store simply ordered it from a woolworths catalog and got it delivered buy a clean and friendly delivery service. Ive never seen usps or fedex get in fire fights over turf.

Also access to courts for dispute settlement.

LOL.

[Fivezeroes]

No cameras while I was in, not sure if that's changed in the last 3 years or not, but I highly doubt it. And the dashcam only records what's in front of the car.;)


True, but the problem is we also have mics on us, they can hear everything we say. So even if I pulled a guy over and found pot, I'd have a hard time disposing of it, simply due to the fact that it would be hard for me to hide anything bigger than a joint in my hand. Don't get me wrong, I have pulled people where the vehicle smelled of pot and have let them go with a warning on speeding.

[kcchiefs6465]

Must Read Books (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?79751-Must-Read-Books)

I'd recommend, 'Take the Rich off Welfare,' Mark Zepezaur [ETA: Please don't think this book is some kind of partisan bullshit, they speak on waste at every level of government- it does not matter your political views, check out this book- I've never seen a more extensive report]
I'd recommend, 'Killing Hope: CIA Interventions Since WWII,' William Blum [again, fuck political views, read about the coup in 1949 Syria, the coup in 1963 Iraq, the assassinations of governments over the world- a great book to get your foreign policy up to date]
I'd recommend, 'Democracy: America's Deadliest Export,' William Blum
I'd recommend, 'Rogue State,' William Blum
I'd recommend, 'The Creature from Jekyll Island,' G. Edward Griffin [The 'Federal' Reserve? Need I say more?]
I'd recommend, 'Dark Alliance,' Gary Webb [Iran-contra scandal with more sources than you could look up- seriously.]
I'd recommend, 'Powderburns: Cocaine, Contras, and the Drug War' Celerino Castillo III [DEA agent telling his tales of massive cocaine shipments being loaded while told to remain quiet? Research is the key.]
I could not recommend enough.

[Fivezeroes]

Not really. Theres no point in risking lives over what would become cheap substances once legalized. Before prohibition, people who were too lazy to run to the store simply ordered it from a woolworths catalog and got it delivered buy a clean and friendly delivery service. Ive never seen usps or fedex get in fire fights over turf.


Perhaps, looking at it in that perspective, if there were no drugs being peddled on the corners and no need for the bangers to be out, then, the territory wars would stop. The sad thing is, that's all it would take to get rid of bangers. Hell, maybe the little dumbasses would go back to school then.

[coastie]

True, but the problem is we also have mics on us, they can hear everything we say. So even if I pulled a guy over and found pot, I'd have a hard time disposing of it, simply due to the fact that it would be hard for me to hide anything bigger than a joint in my hand. Don't get me wrong, I have pulled people where the vehicle smelled of pot and have let them go with a warning on speeding.

You have now lifted yourself .0001 points in my eyes. :p

I still think you should find another line of work. You'll be wanting one soon if you read all of the books others linked here, trust me. I did.

[Fivezeroes]

I could not recommend enough.


I will def check them out. Will prob order them from amazon, for the kindle fire. That way during my days off, I can check them out.

[Fivezeroes]

You have now lifted yourself .0001 points in my eyes. :p

I still think you should find another line of work. You'll be wanting one soon if you read all of the books others linked here, trust me. I did.



As soon as the economy picks back up, I really do plan to get out of this line of work. Sad thing is what good is a degree if no one wants to hire.... which is why I also joined the force.

[kcchiefs6465]

I will def check them out. Will prob order them from amazon, for the kindle fire. That way during my days off, I can check them out.
I really hope you do. And I mean that with all due respect.

[bolil]

As soon as the economy picks back up, I really do plan to get out of this line of work. Sad thing is what good is a degree if no one wants to hire.... which is why I also joined the force.

So much for growing up wanting to protect your community. I am afraid I doubt your veracity. In other words, I don't think your a cop. Whats your angle here?

[PursuePeace]

Virginia is one giant speed trap.
Do you make notes on people that say, for instance, something like.. "NEVER let this person off with a warning. We hate her. Give her all of the tickets you possibly can."
Inquiring minds want to know.

[TheTexan]

Also does the blue line bumper sticker do any good in avoiding tickets

http://rlv.zcache.co.uk/blueline_bumper_sticker-p128259552439298625en7pq_216.jpg

[Fivezeroes]

So much for growing up wanting to protect your community. I am afraid I doubt your veracity. In other words, I don't think your a cop. Whats your angle here?


No, I do want to protect my community, I grow up wanting to be a cop either..... I wanted to be a Dallas Cowboys player... But anyway, it doesn't matter what you believe, I know the truth. I became a cop, because my degree in business administration was getting me no where -- kind of hard to get a job in the business world when you're fresh out of college and know nothing.

I also had a 3 year old at the time, that I refused to see homeless. So you wanted my reason, there it is. My family is my reasons.

[bolil]

"The simple answer is like most police officers, I wanted to make a difference in my community. I know that sentence right there got quite a few scoffs. But, that's the truth. I joined because I was tired of seeing all the drug dealers, pedophiles, and plain old common criminals destroy the city that I grew up in. So four years ago, I joined the force. "

Suddenly its about the economy.

Nope, bullshit.

[Fivezeroes]

Virginia is one giant speed trap.
Do you make notes on people that say, for instance, something like.. "NEVER let this person off with a warning. We hate her. Give her all of the tickets you possibly can."
Inquiring minds want to know.


To answer your question, no, I don't have my own personal little vendetta notebook, it's usually a judgement call, most of the time we never pull the same driver over more than once.

As for what you asked BXM -- no that wont help you at all... however, if you know any cops in your area, ask them for a get out of jail free card. You can only use one, and it's normally given to people in the Fraternal Order of Police and their families, but it's a pretty good way to get out of a speeding ticket. Probably shouldn't have told you that, but, what the hell... you hate cops so the likelihood of you being friends with one is pretty slim lol.

[Fivezeroes]

"The simple answer is like most police officers, I wanted to make a difference in my community. I know that sentence right there got quite a few scoffs. But, that's the truth. I joined because I was tired of seeing all the drug dealers, pedophiles, and plain old common criminals destroy the city that I grew up in. So four years ago, I joined the force. "

Suddenly its about the economy.

Nope, bullshit.


You obviously have no idea how dangerous my job truly is. And did you not read what I said back in one of my posts, the answer was I have a kid to take care of. And yes, like most cops I do wish to make a difference. But, like most, we don't do this job because it's fun. We do it to feed our families. I don't think there is a cop out there that wants to worry about being gunned down, every day of his career.

Again, believe what you want. I know what my profession is.


You really should stop reading so hard into things that aren't there. You're making a fool of yourself.

[kcchiefs6465]

To answer your question, no, I don't have my own personal little vendetta notebook, it's usually a judgement call, most of the time we never pull the same driver over more than once.

As for what you asked BXM -- no that wont help you at all... however, if you know any cops in your area, ask them for a get out of jail free card. You can only use one, and it's normally given to people in the Fraternal Order of Police and their families, but it's a pretty good way to get out of a speeding ticket. Probably shouldn't have told you that, but, what the hell... you hate cops so the likelihood of you being friends with one is pretty slim lol.
We all already know that.

Please inform yourself on the bigger picture.

[Fivezeroes]

We all already know that.

Please inform yourself on the bigger picture.


If he's asking whether or not I'd let one of my psudo-brothers off because he has a badge, no. I wouldn't believe it or not we're not all corrupt.

[Expatriate]

To answer your question, no, I don't have my own personal little vendetta notebook, it's usually a judgement call, most of the time we never pull the same driver over more than once.

As for what you asked BXM -- no that wont help you at all... however, if you know any cops in your area, ask them for a get out of jail free card. You can only use one, and it's normally given to people in the Fraternal Order of Police and their families, but it's a pretty good way to get out of a speeding ticket. Probably shouldn't have told you that, but, what the hell... you hate cops so the likelihood of you being friends with one is pretty slim lol.

I made a thread about those back when I found out about them. I was pretty pissed.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?393307-Get-out-of-Jail-Free-Cards-For-Friends-and-Family-of-Cops/page6

[TheTexan]

As for what you asked BXM -- no that wont help you at all... however, if you know any cops in your area, ask them for a get out of jail free card. You can only use one, and it's normally given to people in the Fraternal Order of Police and their families, but it's a pretty good way to get out of a speeding ticket. Probably shouldn't have told you that, but, what the hell... you hate cops so the likelihood of you being friends with one is pretty slim lol.

I thought you said corruption was only at the highest levels

[kcchiefs6465]

http://i.imgur.com/oPe4oKy.jpg?1

[kcchiefs6465]

NYC is what made the big news though, ABC if I recall correctly?

No one is against you as a person. [at least, I'm not] We aren't your uninformed citizenry either.

I really want you to read up on what I've mentioned, and to make a judgement based on your experiences.

[Professor8000]

For a while there, I was considering joining the police. Outside of personal protection, private security isn't exactly a glamorous, or decently paying job, so it was a natural consideration for me. However, the more I thought about it, the more I realized that a great deal of the things that I would be required to do to continue drawing a paycheck would be violations of not only the Non-Aggression Principle, but also my own morality. While I understand the OP's position, I do not believe that the excuse of "just following orders" should be tolerated by anyone violating the Non-Aggression Principle. I include members of the Military as well. The only member of the military I give a free pass to is Bradley Manning, but only because he actually did something to try and stop the government. I will reserve my praise for those who actively subvert the government.

[Fivezeroes]

I thought you said corruption was only at the highest levels



Considering I can't get any yet, and AFAIK officers lower than the rank of SGT can't get them, then yea, I'd say corruption is only at the highest level. I think you can only use it for speeding anyway, anything else and it's null.



KC posted a pic of what one looks like.

[Fivezeroes]

For a while there, I was considering joining the police. Outside of personal protection, private security isn't exactly a glamorous, or decently paying job, so it was a natural consideration for me. However, the more I thought about it, the more I realized that a great deal of the things that I would be required to do to continue drawing a paycheck would be violations of not only the Non-Aggression Principle, but also my own morality. While I understand the OP's position, I do not believe that the excuse of "just following orders" should be tolerated by anyone violating the Non-Aggression Principle. I include members of the Military as well. The only member of the military I give a free pass to is Bradley Manning, but only because he actually did something to try and stop the government. I will reserve my praise for those who actively subvert the government.



It's not even a decent paying job, not with how dangerous it is. But, it keeps my kid warm and fed.

I salute Private Manning, he knew full well what would happen and he still leaked the documents. He's a patriot.

[SL89]

First off, I would like to thank 5-0 for volunteering for this ass chewing and I give kudos for him remaining calm. Too, calm IMHO.

I believe that City Cops and State Cops and the FBI are unconstitutional. And by their very nature..are anti-liberty. They are appointed bureaucratic nightmares. I applaud you if you are a 'good' cop. Although some things you said were troubling. You may have a chief that seems cool but, the very position he is in, is anti-citizen and he is beholden to the politics of where he is at. You are lucky.

The Sheriff on the other hand is a constitutionally authorized function, as they are directly elected by the county citizens. If the citizens want to elect a law body, so be it. They are not appointed.

A few points/questions.
1) You have NO legal authority to protect me from myself, despite what you have been taught. Constitution 101. As long as I am not directly infringing on someone else's rights...piss off. If you think my suicide 'might' endanger others, keep the others away from me. I don't need saving.

2) You cannot entertain the idea that an anonymous tip is an excuse to apprehend anyone, unless they are already wanted for a violent crime. PERIOD.

3) In situations where it gets heated and an officer strikes an innocent because his pride was hurt, you have the OBLIGATION to arrest your fellow officer, in public, on the spot. This 'brotherhood cult' is out of control.

4) I am not sure of the statistic but I will be corrected if wrong. The majority of police abuses that come to light, end with paid suspension, forced retirement with pay and/or 90% get to go back to work like nothing happened. After destroying a family. You cannot defend that...it is not possible.

5) You want trust from the public? Then get rid of the revenuers and the power hungry pigs, who's egos, have hurt us beyond repair.

6) If an officer shows up at my house flaunting his power, without a lawful warrant, he will be shot. It is legal in more places than you think. This is not a threat but, y'all brought this hell fire on yourselves.

7) You need to evaluate your position. It seems to me that the law is first, rights second. And petty law, not the constitution. If I were a cop it would be, how do I protect others rights and where does the perp fit into that.

8) Preemptive action is NOT law enforcement, it is downright illegal. Besides, you should be rights protectors not, revenuers// cough/// law enforcement.



I have had no really bad experiences with the lawless in blue, just a few arrogant punks that wasted my time.

I have dealt with the Sheriff though, he is one of the ones that refuses to comply with DC mandates. ;) And their number one, on their mission statement is to protect rights not, arrest lawbreakers.

[PursuePeace]

To answer your question, no, I don't have my own personal little vendetta notebook, it's usually a judgement call, most of the time we never pull the same driver over more than once.


No, not a personal vendetta notebook.. I was thinking more along the lines of some sort of notes showing up next to a person's name when you run their license. Like notes a doctor makes in a patient's chart.

I'm convinced something like this is happening:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyossoHFDJg



:(

"Please.... no more."

[TheTexan]

Considering I can't get any yet, and AFAIK officers lower than the rank of SGT can't get them, then yea, I'd say corruption is only at the highest level. I think you can only use it for speeding anyway, anything else and it's null.



KC posted a pic of what one looks like.

Here's a detective one..

http://www.jcfop4.org/images/goldcardl.jpg

[Fivezeroes]

No, not a personal vendetta notebook.. I was thinking more along the lines of some sort of notes showing up next to a person's name when you run their license. Like notes a doctor makes in a patient's chart.

I'm convinced something like this is happening:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyossoHFDJg



:(

"Please.... no more."


Oh yea, we leave personal notes, but nothing like that. If we pull someone who pops as a well known felon and likely to be armed, we like to know about it. As far as petty stuff like give this person as many tickets as possible, I've never seen anything like it. I wont say it's not there, but, I've never seen it.

[TheTexan]

Here's one for officers

http://911specialties.com/images/Police/courtesy-card%202%20small.jpg

[sailingaway]

I think most police are good people who took the job for good reasons. Right now I'm at a new low because of the Dorner case, I just think after they shot up ONE truck that looked nothing like his with people who looked nothing like him in it, they might have been more careful and not shoot up two more that weren't the same color with people in them who weren't even the same color. the idea that they were going for an arrest was a complete non starter, but civilians seemed very disposable, as well.

But I know that isn't most, it is just 'those'. I'm just still shocked by it.

[Fivezeroes]

Here's a detective one..

http://www.jcfop4.org/images/goldcardl.jpg


I think Detectives are just above SGT, when it comes to rank. I still have two years before I can even qualify for SGT consideration. Not that I have any need for a get out of jail free card.

[kcchiefs6465]

If he's asking whether or not I'd let one of my psudo-brothers off because he has a badge, no. I wouldn't believe it or not we're not all corrupt.
No, I don't believe he is. I'd assume he's more saying that there has been implicit help in insuring the drug trade [cocaine and heroin] is uninterupted. [with more evidence than has been used to convict most anyone I'd add] Check it out for yourself, Norwin Meneses? Why was his brother released from where, Ecuador? DEA contacts? I must be confused. Please refute me, I am a little off track I think. I forgot about Ollie North's pardon...

I forgot Bill Clinton's pardons. I can only remember so much. I really want you to take a week, read, and repudiate what I'm saying. I haven't read anything about it in five or so years and I very well might be wrong. I just want you to read the evidence, and tell me as much. Respectfully.

ETA: I very well might be wrong on the locations. [especially where Meneses's family was relieved of any DEA charges- Puerto Rico I believe, and Oakland, CA I believe, but there was a country he was released from with DEA help- South American- [I think Ecuador, if someone knows more about this than I?] Any help from someone familiar with what I'm referring to is a plus rep.

[Fivezeroes]

Here's one for officers

http://911specialties.com/images/Police/courtesy-card%202%20small.jpg


I feel so left out... I should have joined Belleville PD... jk, like I said, I have no need, my son is 7, he wont be driving for a while and he knows I'll kick his ass if he gets in trouble.


@sailing I have no idea what the LAPD was thinking, the way they went after him though, it does tell me that he had a lot of dirt on officers there, that they didn't want to get out. LAPD are corrupt.

[cjm]

Oh yea, we leave personal notes, but nothing like that. If we pull someone who pops as a well known felon and likely to be armed, we like to know about it. As far as petty stuff like give this person as many tickets as possible, I've never seen anything like it. I wont say it's not there, but, I've never seen it.

Do your computers identify drivers who are CHP holders?

[TaftFan]

Have you heard of OathKeepers?

Highly recommend looking it up.

I am a big fan of cops shows myself, and generally have a positive view towards cops, but I recognize there is a ton of abuse and also bad laws created by state governments.

[Fivezeroes]

First off, I would like to thank 5-0 for volunteering for this ass chewing and I give kudos for him remaining calm. Too, calm IMHO.

I believe that City Cops and State Cops and the FBI are unconstitutional. And by their very nature..are anti-liberty. They are appointed bureaucratic nightmares. I applaud you if you are a 'good' cop. Although some things you said were troubling. You may have a chief that seems cool but, the very position he is in, is anti-citizen and he is beholden to the politics of where he is at. You are lucky.

The Sheriff on the other hand is a constitutionally authorized function, as they are directly elected by the county citizens. If the citizens want to elect a law body, so be it. They are not appointed.

A few points/questions.
1) You have NO legal authority to protect me from myself, despite what you have been taught. Constitution 101. As long as I am not directly infringing on someone else's rights...piss off. If you think my suicide 'might' endanger others, keep the others away from me. I don't need saving.

2) You cannot entertain the idea that an anonymous tip is an excuse to apprehend anyone, unless they are already wanted for a violent crime. PERIOD.

3) In situations where it gets heated and an officer strikes an innocent because his pride was hurt, you have the OBLIGATION to arrest your fellow officer, in public, on the spot. This 'brotherhood cult' is out of control.

4) I am not sure of the statistic but I will be corrected if wrong. The majority of police abuses that come to light, end with paid suspension, forced retirement with pay and/or 90% get to go back to work like nothing happened. After destroying a family. You cannot defend that...it is not possible.

5) You want trust from the public? Then get rid of the revenuers and the power hungry pigs, who's egos, have hurt us beyond repair.

6) If an officer shows up at my house flaunting his power, without a lawful warrant, he will be shot. It is legal in more places than you think. This is not a threat but, y'all brought this hell fire on yourselves.

7) You need to evaluate your position. It seems to me that the law is first, rights second. And petty law, not the constitution. If I were a cop it would be, how do I protect others rights and where does the perp fit into that.

8) Preemptive action is NOT law enforcement, it is downright illegal. Besides, you should be rights protectors not, revenuers// cough/// law enforcement.



I have had no really bad experiences with the lawless in blue, just a few arrogant punks that wasted my time.

I have dealt with the Sheriff though, he is one of the ones that refuses to comply with DC mandates. ;) And their number one, on their mission statement is to protect rights not, arrest lawbreakers.



1. As much as I wish, I could agree with you, I can't. I know I'm under no federal mandate to protect you, but under state law, I have to. You know the whole serve and protect oath. To be honest, if someone wants to kill themselves. what can I do to change it? Taking them off to the nut hut isn't going to change the fact that they want to die.

2. Sadly, you'd be wrong again on that. Since most people love to get lawyers and sue the hell out of the cities, if we receive tips that someone is a danger to themselves, we have to respond or else we get sued for it. When the city gets sued, they have to lay off, to be honest officers have other things that they could be doing, like taking care of real criminals, especially if following up on said tip ends up being bs.

3. I agree, luckily I have never witnessed it. The officers I work with don't behave the way the NY cops do.

4. You're wrong, it's around 60%, most abuses reported directly to the chief of police especially if you have one like ours, is instantly dealt with, if the officer has had issues in the past, or gotten any other demerits he is punished with unpaid suspension and if he screws up a third time he is fired. If there is a weapon discharge and a suspect is killed, all information is sent to IA, the officer is placed on desk duty or paid suspension then, when IA finishes their investigation if it was justified, the officer if fully reinstated, if not, the officer is suspended without pay until the DA decides what he wants to do. Cops can't be fired due to unions, unless it is 100% justifiable.

5. You make it sound so easy, if it was that easy do you think that any of them would still be around? Finding damn good cops is harder than you think, sadly sometimes a few bad apples make their way through the academy.

6. It might be lawful, but be aware of the revenge that is sure to take place, you have some that wont care but some that will and they'll say you pulled a gun on them, even if you didn't and they had to plant one. Personally it's something that I never like to do and that is flaunt my authority if I can be respectful, I ask you do the same.

7. I'm not following you here, didn't I say in my post that most of us, such as myself will not do anything to trample on your rights?

8. Again, I'm not following you here, what exactly do you mean, what preemptive action are you referring to?


Our police chief and our sheriff are exactly the same, pretty much. They both don't care much for DC's bullshit.

As for why I'm calm, It's probably the fact that I knew what would happen when I posted, why get mad over it? It's a message board, besides I get called worse almost on a daily basis lol.

[Fivezeroes]

Do your computers identify drivers who are CHP holders?


Yes, which is why whenever I pull someone who has a CCW. I'll ask them if they're carrying their weapon today, it's mainly for my protection but 90% of the time it's to strike up a conversation. Lets face it no one likes to be pulled and if I can put someone at ease, they're less likely to get irate about it. Every single CCW holder I have ever pulled over has turned out to be awesome.

[cjm]

Yes, which is why whenever I pull someone who has a CCW. I'll ask them if they're carrying their weapon today, it's mainly for my protection but 90% of the time it's to strike up a conversation. Lets face it no one likes to be pulled and if I can put someone at ease, they're less likely to get irate about it. Every single CCW holder I have ever pulled over has turned out to be awesome.

And if the response is "yes," do you confiscate the weapon for the duration of the traffic stop? I have heard of that happening down where you are.

[Aurave]

Now, I know that the word police officer doesn't sit well with most people here. I know that a lot of cops have given you guys a bad taste in your mouth; especially with all the reports of police brutally beating inmates and going around killing dogs to name a few.

I have been an officer for going on four years now, you probably ask why I joined the force to begin with. The simple answer is like most police officers, I wanted to make a difference in my community. I know that sentence right there got quite a few scoffs. But, that's the truth. I joined because I was tired of seeing all the drug dealers, pedophiles, and plain old common criminals destroy the city that I grew up in. So four years ago, I joined the force.

In those four years, I have seen pretty much every horror you can think of, child pornography in the hands of those sworn to protect this country, members of the military. I have seen gang bangers dead in the middle of the street, brain matter on the side-walk where they were gunned down. I have seen women beaten so badly by their significant others and not wanting to press charges, that it sickened me. I have even seen my fair share of suicides, which are some of the worse things to ever witness.

I have arrested quite a few people, I have helped a woman give birth (I don't know how doctors do this), I have taken many many pedophiles off the streets, not once have I asked for praise or anything like that, I saw it as doing my job. In all the time I have been on the force, I have NEVER once stepped on someone's constitutional rights. Most cops can't say that, most cops smirk when you even mention the thought of regular citizens having rights. I have also never killed anyone's dog, whether it was a suspect's dog or just a regular family dog that came running to me, when I went out to check out a domestic disturbance. I have had hostile dogs try to attack me, but, a squirt of pepper spray took care of that. I have even saved a suspects life after they had a heart attack on me, while I was in the process of cuffing them.

I have received various awards over the years from the chief, again not to be a glory hound or anything like that, but to do what I set out to do, and that was protect people that couldn't protect themselves as well as protect my city. I guess what I'm trying to express in this post is that not all cops are bad, yes, there are the few that don't give two shits about your rights. But, they are few and far between. Every officer and I'm sure that I'm not the only one on these boards, that see the police brutality videos are both saddened and sickened by our fellow officers behaviors. I know that when you guys see it, you automatically think that all cops are like that, that all of us just want to rule the world and beat you down for the littlest of reasons, but again that's far from the truth. Most of us just want to do our jobs, nothing less.

So while I understand why you guys have a certain distrust of us, I ask that you don't lump us all into that group. If I were like the cops you see in that video, I'd be pissed off at how many times you guys have used the word pig, and the fact that some of you even advocate mowing us down. However that is the glory of the Constitution, you can say what you want as long as it remains words, no one needs to go acting on such suggestions, no matter how bad a cop is.

And before I'm asked... the how many question, here is your answers.

Dogs killed: 0
Suspects killed during arrest: 0
Pedo's off the street: 30-ish
Hard Drug Dealers: Over 100

Oh and if you ask about my name, why I called myself Fivezeroes, just another word for the cops. lol. 5.0

Any more questions ask away, except for my badge number of course and which police department I work for. I would prefer to remain anonymous as well, just in case the higher ups don't appreciate me doing this.

You see it's not that we think all cops are bad. We know precisely that they are normal people. That is why we don't like them, because we know they are just normal people, given power to all too often do whatever the hell they want.

[Fivezeroes]

And if the response is "yes," do you confiscate the weapon for the duration of the traffic stop? I have heard of that happening down where you are.



Nope, that would be against the constitution. Only thing I am worried about is whether it's loaded, but, as I said most gun owners are law abiding citizens, so I have no need to disarm them. The only time I would take their weapon from them is if I was placing them under arrest. And when they're released they get that right back. Again, I use it to strike up a conversation. I had to arrest one guy, because he had a bench warrant that was issued in his name that the clerk of the court messed up on, he got it straight and received his firearm back.

He understood what had happened, I explained it to him, but due to procedure I had to do it. I have heard about some cops asking for the firearm, I'm not sure why they ask for it, as long as no one is being belligerent there's no need to take it.

[Fivezeroes]

You see it's not that we think all cops are bad. We know precisely that they are normal people. That is why we don't like them, because we know they are just normal people, given power to all too often do whatever the hell they want.


We all know the saying...

Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely

[Expatriate]

Yes, which is why whenever I pull someone who has a CCW. I'll ask them if they're carrying their weapon today, it's mainly for my protection but 90% of the time it's to strike up a conversation. Lets face it no one likes to be pulled and if I can put someone at ease, they're less likely to get irate about it. Every single CCW holder I have ever pulled over has turned out to be awesome.

Well that's a good reason for everyone to push for Constitutional Carry in their state. This guy may not freak out but I think we all have heard of cops who would not be the type you would want approaching you from behind knowing you have a permit to carry a lethal weapon.

Just imagine... "He was driving erratically, I suspected he was drunk and when I ran his plates saw he had a carry permit, so when I approached the vehicle I tasered him for my own protection" - Would probably hold up in court.

[Fivezeroes]

Well that's a good reason for everyone to push for Constitutional Carry in their state. This guy may not freak out but I think we all have heard of cops who would not be the type you would want approaching you from behind knowing you have a permit to carry a lethal weapon.

Just imagine... "He was driving erratically, I suspected he was drunk and when I ran his plates saw he had a carry permit, so when I approached the vehicle I tasered him for my own protection" - Would probably hold up in court.


The sad fact is, you're probably right. I dunno maybe we're more constitutionally minded in Virginia, or maybe it's just me. But, as long as I have no reason to fear for my life, even if you do have a CCW, I'm not going to try and gun grab you. Wish that all cops thought like this, maybe, just maybe we'd have less videos showing cops behaving in the worst way.

[heavenlyboy34]

You see it's not that we think all cops are bad. We know precisely that they are normal people. That is why we don't like them, because we know they are just normal people, given power to all too often do whatever the hell they want.
+rep

[kcchiefs6465]

Nope, that would be against the constitution. Only thing I am worried about is whether it's loaded, but, as I said most gun owners are law abiding citizens, so I have no need to disarm them. The only time I would take their weapon from them is if I was placing them under arrest. And when they're released they get that right back. Again, I use it to strike up a conversation. I had to arrest one guy, because he had a bench warrant that was issued in his name that the clerk of the court messed up on, he got it straight and received his firearm back.

He understood what had happened, I explained it to him, but due to procedure I had to do it. I have heard about some cops asking for the firearm, I'm not sure why they ask for it, as long as no one is being belligerent there's no need to take it.
A favorite of mine.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj9wahCTz08

A very exceptional case of a law enforcement officer. In case I may be considered as biased...

[kcchiefs6465]

Literally, I smiled when the above police officer said you are not detained after checking the weapon for it's functionality. Goddamn, great job.

[Fivezeroes]

A favorite of mine.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj9wahCTz08

A very exceptional case of a law enforcement officer. In case I may be considered as biased...


This is how all things like this need to be handled. This officer knew the man had a right to do this and after confirming it wasn't a fully automatic, gave it back. If only all things went this way.

I do want to let you guys in on another secret, if you're stopped and you're carrying your weapon open carry, a police officer cannot ask you if it's registered. That is against the law. Which is why this officer didn't ask to see any licenses for this man's firearms.

[Fivezeroes]

Literally, I smiled when the above police officer said you are not detained after checking the weapon for it's functionality. Goddamn, great job.



It makes me proud to see videos like this.

[SL89]

1. As much as I wish, I could agree with you, I can't. I know I'm under no federal mandate to protect you, but under state law, I have to. You know the whole serve and protect oath. To be honest, if someone wants to kill themselves. what can I do to change it? Taking them off to the nut hut isn't going to change the fact that they want to die.

2. Sadly, you'd be wrong again on that. Since most people love to get lawyers and sue the hell out of the cities, if we receive tips that someone is a danger to themselves, we have to respond or else we get sued for it. When the city gets sued, they have to lay off, to be honest officers have other things that they could be doing, like taking care of real criminals, especially if following up on said tip ends up being bs.

3. I agree, luckily I have never witnessed it. The officers I work with don't behave the way the NY cops do.

4. You're wrong, it's around 60%, most abuses reported directly to the chief of police especially if you have one like ours, is instantly dealt with, if the officer has had issues in the past, or gotten any other demerits he is punished with unpaid suspension and if he screws up a third time he is fired. If there is a weapon discharge and a suspect is killed, all information is sent to IA, the officer is placed on desk duty or paid suspension then, when IA finishes their investigation if it was justified, the officer if fully reinstated, if not, the officer is suspended without pay until the DA decides what he wants to do. Cops can't be fired due to unions, unless it is 100% justifiable.

5. You make it sound so easy, if it was that easy do you think that any of them would still be around? Finding damn good cops is harder than you think, sadly sometimes a few bad apples make their way through the academy.

6. It might be lawful, but be aware of the revenge that is sure to take place, you have some that wont care but some that will and they'll say you pulled a gun on them, even if you didn't and they had to plant one. Personally it's something that I never like to do and that is flaunt my authority if I can be respectful, I ask you do the same.

7. I'm not following you here, didn't I say in my post that most of us, such as myself will not do anything to trample on your rights?

8. Again, I'm not following you here, what exactly do you mean, what preemptive action are you referring to?


Our police chief and our sheriff are exactly the same, pretty much. They both don't care much for DC's bullshit.

As for why I'm calm, It's probably the fact that I knew what would happen when I posted, why get mad over it? It's a message board, besides I get called worse almost on a daily basis lol.


1) You are wrong. I don't care what State or town you are in. I have unlimited rights as long as they don't impede on the rights of another. It is illegal for you to stop my suicide...Constitution......Only if I pose no threat to another and that has to be apparent. But, hey, This protect and serve stuff, is not real. Heck, you are obligated, under law,to use any evidence against me. Even Miranda doesn't allow you to use evidence "in support". Everything is to be used to get a conviction from the DA. Guilty from the scene until I get to court and have a lawyer. So much for innocent until proven.... This happens for misdemeanors all the time. Catch a person without proof of insurance...guilty! You enforce 'laws' that are really not laws at all.

2) Well, City Police are not authorized legally, so this would not apply if the cities obeyed the law. Maybe you all should be arresting lawyers?? and protecting peoples rights, after all Rights trump the law especially law that it outside of the scope of the Constitution.. Rights are the law.

3)I am so glad. I would like to know what state you are in. ;)

4)My stats stand corrected. I based them off of the reports about Chicago, NY, etc. But, you mentioned unions. DANGER ZONE! Protect our own and serve. So you reiterated an earlier point of mine. The brotherhood of cops. If the public has no recourse outside of civil litigation....Cops go free. (Most people can't afford lawyers as you know)

5) Straw man. Lots of good people could and would be cops if it was...legal. hehe. Yep, opened a can right there.

6) I know the "legal" law around here, I drink coffee with them and they have helped me when my kid ran away.They are not threatened by me. But, they are constitutionalist's. Might be fringe to you and the Feds but, not to us, not here.

7) This is a hard one for me. Your job is by its very nature is illegal. The city has no Constitutional right to have a police force. That said... I meant, you follow the law as written before you ensure someones rights. Simple really. You are a good cop, we thank you and get that. Hell, I would buy you a beer any day. But, the question is....Where do you draw the line between the rights of a sovereign individual juxtaposed against the laws of some town or state or even federal? Under the Constitution you are under NO obligation to enforce an unjust law. Oh wait, yes you are, you are in an appointed position and are equivalent to a private cop. Bad legal place to be, especially when people are waking up. BTW. Cities have insurance...Being sued is a mute point. I haven't seen a cop get fired yet, because a city was sued. The go on leave and it goes away.

8) Preemption: Another tough one. Law enforcement has no right to apprehend, harass, question someone on a rumor, here say or a hunch. Not without a warrant. You can't say "So and so said this" and then infringe on my rights. You can give me a summons. Despite what happens on the street, I am still innocent until proven guilty. Once you apprehend me and are under code of law to use anything I say against me...I am presumed guilty. And it is very expensive to get out of. (I could be arrested on a whim..a hunch and it would render my family homeless if I fought the charge)


No, your police chief and the Sheriff are not the same. One is legally authorized and one is not. But, I am glad they hold similar views. ;)


Back to point one. I don't need protection, nor do my kids. What is this "holier than thou" complex with law enforcement?

[jcannon98188]

Depends on what the hear say is. When we get reports of someone wanting to do bodily harm to themselves then we have to take it serious. Because there is always that what-if factor. You may not want to believe it, but, that cop had your best interest in mind. You have to look at it from his perspective, is the threat this girl said you made legit, if so, does he ignore it and risk losing his lively hood because he failed to do what he swore to do and that was protect the innocent, or does he do what he did and possibly saved a life, no matter how much he became hated for it? I'm not just looking at this from a cops perspective either.

The President all all of Congress (except for our liberty folks) are planning to commit suicide. Please respond and arrest them. Thank you.

[jcannon98188]

The sad fact is, you're probably right. I dunno maybe we're more constitutionally minded in Virginia, or maybe it's just me. But, as long as I have no reason to fear for my life, even if you do have a CCW, I'm not going to try and gun grab you. Wish that all cops thought like this, maybe, just maybe we'd have less videos showing cops behaving in the worst way.

Like this cop feared for his life?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et8J8sUNa3c
And the video of his "backup"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et8J8sUNa3c

[cjm]

I do want to let you guys in on another secret, if you're stopped and you're carrying your weapon open carry, a police officer cannot ask you if it's registered. That is against the law. Which is why this officer didn't ask to see any licenses for this man's firearms.

I wouldn't even understand that question ("is it registered?"). The firearm in the video is a semi-auto. Who registers semi-autos?

[jcannon98188]

I do want to let you guys in on another secret, if you're stopped and you're carrying your weapon open carry, a police officer cannot ask you if it's registered. That is against the law. Which is why this officer didn't ask to see any licenses for this man's firearms.

So question, if a person defends themselves using a unregistered weapon that they were open carrying, will they go to jail for it?

Edit: Defends themselves against an attacker, not defend themselves against a cop.

[Fivezeroes]

1) You are wrong. I don't care what State or town you are in. I have unlimited rights as long as they don't impede on the rights of another. It is illegal for you to stop my suicide...Constitution......Only if I pose no threat to another and that has to be apparent. But, hey, This protect and serve stuff, is not real. Heck, you are obligated, under law,to use any evidence against me. Even Miranda doesn't allow you to use evidence "in support". Everything is to be used to get a conviction from the DA. Guilty from the scene until I get to court and have a lawyer. So much for innocent until proven.... This happens for misdemeanors all the time. Catch a person without proof of insurance...guilty! You enforce 'laws' that are really not laws at all.

2) Well, City Police are not authorized legally, so this would not apply if the cities obeyed the law. Maybe you all should be arresting lawyers?? and protecting peoples rights, after all Rights trump the lawm especially law that it outside of the scope of the Constitution.. Rights are the law.

3)I am so glad. I would like to know what state you are in. ;)

4)My stats stand corrected. I based them off of the reports about Chicago, NY, etc. But, you mentioned unions. DANGER ZONE! Protect our own and serve. So you reiterated an earlier point of mine. The brotherhood of cops. If the public has no recourse outside of civil litigation....Cops go free. (Most people can't afford lawyers as you know)

5) Straw man. Lots of good people could and would be cops if it was...legal. hehe. Yep, opened a can right there.

6) I know the "legal" law around here, I drink coffee with them and they have helped me when my kid ran away.They are not threatened by me. But, they are constitutionalist's. Might be fringe to you and the Feds but, not to us, not here.

7) This is a hard one for me. Your job is by its very nature is illegal. The city has no Constitutional right to have a police force. That said... I meant, you follow the law as written before you ensure someones rights. Simple really. You are a good cop, we thank you and get that. Hell, I would buy you a beer any day. But, the question is....Where do you draw the line between the rights of a sovereign individual juxtaposed against the laws of some town or state or even federal? Under the Constitution you are under NO obligation to enforce an unjust law. Oh wait, yes you are, you are in an appointed position and are equivalent to a private cop. Bad legal place to be, especially when people are waking up. BTW. Cities have insurance...Being sued is a mute point. I haven't seen a cop get fired yet, because a city was sued. The go on leave and it goes away.

8) Preemption: Another tough one. Law enforcement has no right to apprehend, harass, question someone on a rumor, here say or a hunch. Not without a warrant. You can't say "So and so said this" and then infringe on my rights. You can give me a summons. Despite what happens on the street, I am still innocent until proven guilty. Once you apprehend me and are under code of law to use anything I say against me...I am presumed guilty. And it is very expensive to get out of. (I could be arrested on a whim..a hunch and it would render my family homeless if I fought the charge)


No, your police chief and the Sheriff are not the same. One is legally authorized and one is not. But, I am glad they hold similar views. ;)


Back to point one. I don't need protection, nor do my kids. What is this "holier than thou" complex with law enforcement?


1. Again, I wish this was correct, but some dumbass who sued screwed it up for everyone. Personally, I wish I didn't have to answer calls like this, most turn out to be someone just looking for attention, sort of like Kim Jong Un is right now. You have no idea how much I agree with you but city laws state I have to do this, cause if they get sued over something I do, I lose my job, in all honesty it's stupid.

2. The thing is, just like city police, the Sheriff's deputies are not voted in, the only one voted in is the Sheriff himself. He doesn't even hire his own deputies, the city takes care of that for him. If you want to get technical, the Sheriff Deputies are pretty much court bitches and jailers, that's the only purpose they serve here. It's the local PD that go out and do the hard stuff, so in a sense, we're their what's the word I'm looking for, henchmen. And even I have found it strange to have both a Sheriff's department and Police Department... Hell, the jail is right across the street from the precinct that I was assigned to. I was explained in academy that a municipality that has both a Sheriff's Office and Police Department that the Police Department handles all the dirty work. Trying to remember stuff from four years ago sucks.

3. Virginia

4. Yea, sadly I've seen a lot of terrible cops get reinstated because of the police union. They never did anything underhanded, it was just they were terrible at their job. There are a few cops right now that I think need to be fired, but, due to the umbrella of the union they stay on.

5. Thing is, we're trying to recruit now for the July 2013 academy, we have had 15 people post applications, the chief just extended the hiring process from the Feb 28th deadline until March 31st deadline. We'll be lucky if out of those 15, if that's all we get, 4 or 5 will make it through the academy. I'd much rather see like minded people come out of the academy than the cops you see in NY and NJ that beat the crap out of innocents for no reason.

6. I hope you didn't take what I initially wrote as a threat, I just know how some cops can be, especially after watching the video of that one cop killer that they beat so badly in custody, that his own family could barely recognize him.

7. Even if the state gave the city that power would you still consider it illegal? Considering the 10th amendment gives states the right to do what they want, that is when the government isn't butting in

8. The thing is, no one would apprehend you unless you were deemed to be a danger to yourself or others. That is a judgement call for officers to make, sometimes it's the right one, other times it's not. I remember reading a story about eight or nine years ago, where a police officer was fired after unlawfully discharging his weapon and striking an innocent bystander, the bystander sued for negligence and won. The union lost and the officer was out of work. So it does happen, it's just rare.

By the state of Virginia which granted the city the power, he is legally authorized. But, again, he's one of the better police chiefs out there.

[kcchiefs6465]

Like this cop feared for his life?

[That's a sad one. You don't even have to see it.]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=159PM7ZKcv0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0rf2OIOxLw

Have to log in for the full video...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ins9VAo-xLY

Point blank execution...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTOY-6Nm1_M

[Fivezeroes]

I wouldn't even understand that question ("is it registered?"). The firearm in the video is a semi-auto. Who registers semi-autos?


Sorry, little sleep deprived, what I mean was if he comes up to you and asks if you have a license to carry. It's a trick question, since you don't need a license to open carry in most states.

[Fivezeroes]

So question, if a person defends themselves using a unregistered weapon that they were open carrying, will they go to jail for it?

Edit: Defends themselves against an attacker, not defend themselves against a cop.


Now this is actually at the discretion of the officer, if you defend yourself against an attack, once the responding officer gets there, tell them the whole story. The it's not likely that you will be charged with anything. The only time you would be charged is if you were a felon and you were in possession of the firearm.

[Fivezeroes]

Like this cop feared for his life?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et8J8sUNa3c
And the video of his "backup"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et8J8sUNa3c



The suspect had a knife, do we have any videos showing what the suspect was doing, was he coming toward the officer with the knife? If he was then that officer had every right to protect himself, he didn't have to fire what sounded like 3 or 4 shots, but he did have the right to take down someone that was coming at him with a knife.

[RabbitMan]

Police brutality videos /= 300,000 corrupt, crazy police officers.

Thank you for the dialogue and patience to respond to inquiries on the board Fivezeroes.

[Fivezeroes]

[That's a sad one. You don't even have to see it.]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=159PM7ZKcv0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0rf2OIOxLw

Have to log in for the full video...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ins9VAo-xLY

Point blank execution...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTOY-6Nm1_M


Why am I not surprised that most of these videos either involve LAPD, BART police, etc... Shit like that never happens here.

[kcchiefs6465]

The suspect had a knife, do we have any videos showing what the suspect was doing, was he coming toward the officer with the knife? If he was then that officer had every right to protect himself, he didn't have to fire what sounded like 3 or 4 shots, but he did have the right to take down someone that was coming at him with a knife.
No he wasn't. From what I remember the suspect was deaf[?] Either deaf or didn't understand the commands. [maybe an Inuit or both, it's been a while] I've seen a good 20 or so men actually gunned down since that case. As I recall, the Seattle man's family got something like 1.2M for the woodcarver's death.

[Fivezeroes]

Police brutality videos /= 300,000 corrupt, crazy police officers.

Thank you for the dialogue and patience to respond to inquiries on the board Fivezeroes.


Police officers are supposed to be open to questions, we're normal people just like everyone else.

[cjm]

Sorry, little sleep deprived...

No problem.


...what I mean was if he comes up to you and asks if you have a license to carry. It's a trick question, since you don't need a license to open carry in most states.

Hmmm, I'm afraid I'm missing the trick. The LEO is not allowed to ask me if I have a license to open carry when a license is not required, so he asks, "do you have a license?" and I say, "I don't need a license." What's the trick?

[Fivezeroes]

No he wasn't. From what I remember the suspect was deaf[?] Either deaf or didn't understand the commands. [maybe an Inuit or both, it's been a while] I've seen a good 20 or so men actually gunned down since that case. As I recall, the Seattle man's family got something like 1.2M for the woodcarver's death.


I really wish that I could see the full video. Why was a woodcarver carrying a knife around in broad daylight, that is what I don't get.

[kcchiefs6465]

Why am I not surprised that most of these videos either involve LAPD, BART police, etc... Shit like that never happens here.
And I hope you are equally unsurprised when people listen to men being burned out, gunned down, heads explode, 41 shots, that they don't necessarily like your profession. That's not to put words in anyone's mouth but look at things from an objective stand point. I've seen a man beat to death with a taser. [not tasered to death] What was the sentence, four years when there is video evidence? No other cops charged? [if I recall] Listen to this mentally retarded man scream for his father and let me know what you think... It isn't against the police. The shit most have seen is unheard of.

[kcchiefs6465]

I really wish that I could see the full video. Why was a woodcarver carrying a knife around in broad daylight, that is what I don't get.
He was carving wood. I have seen it. When it happened. He didn't understand the commands. If I recall correctly, the man was deaf.

[Fivezeroes]

No problem.



Hmmm, I'm afraid I'm missing the trick. The LEO is not allowed to ask me if I have a license to open carry when a license is not required, so he asks, "do you have a license?" and I say, "I don't need a license." What's the trick?


If your state is anything like mine, if you're open carrying and a LEO asks you whether you have a license to carry and it's not loaded, all you have to respond with is according to the laws of this state, you are not allowed to ask me that. (make sure it's like that in your state) most states do not require a registration for your firearm as long as you don't conceal it. And no cop is allowed to ask you otherwise. If the officer keeps pressing the matter, provide said license / registration and then get their badge number and report it to the mayor if the police chief refuses to listen.

Most LEO wont even bother you as long as your weapon isn't concealed. Again, I said most, you do have stupid ones out there.

[kcchiefs6465]

This man's screams still haunt me.

Kelly Thomas
http://i.imgur.com/RXbLbJI.jpg?1


I really think I could have been him, on a different day.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6yaeD-E_MY

[cjm]

Why am I not surprised that most of these videos either involve LAPD, BART police, etc... Shit like that never happens here.

I wish that were true. The lady that was shot through her car window in the church parking lot was in or around Culpeper. Virginia has it too.

[Fivezeroes]

He was carving wood. I have seen it. When it happened. He didn't understand the commands. If I recall correctly, the man was deaf.



Then the cop def over-reacted. Nothing about what you posted surprises me, LAPD and BART are all corrupt, we learned that from the Dorner execution. I understand how a lot of you feel about seeing videos like this, and know this it doesn't happen everywhere. It's a shame that good cops have to be lumped in with losers like that. Watching the BART police kill that one guy, was sickening. Shit like this sickens all of us good cops too, you think we like having the stigma on our head or being stereotyped the way most people stereotype us, because of a few pieces of trash out there, that disgrace the badge.

[kcchiefs6465]

I want a clear answer, fivezeroes, should all men involved in the beating of Kelly Thomas face capital murder charges? I am sure you are aware in many states, those who are present during a felony where someone dies, are equally guilty under the respective State Constitutions and the court of law.

[Fivezeroes]

I wish that were true. The lady that was shot through her car window in the church parking lot was in or around Culpeper. Virginia has it too.

I'm no where close to culpepper... what was the circumstances on that one? What happened?

[Fivezeroes]

I want a clear answer, fivezeroes, should all men involved in the beating of Kelly Thomas face capital murder charges? I am sure you are aware in many states, those who are present during a felony where someone dies, are equally guilty under the respective State Constitutions and the court of law.


Guilty by association, hell yea. They should all receive the death penalty. Kelly Thomas done nothing wrong. He didn't deserve what these animals did, and yes his friends his pseudo-brothers, all need to go down with him, for not stopping what was going on.

[kcchiefs6465]

Then the cop def over-reacted. Nothing about what you posted surprises me, LAPD and BART are all corrupt, we learned that from the Dorner execution. I understand how a lot of you feel about seeing videos like this, and know this it doesn't happen everywhere. It's a shame that good cops have to be lumped in with losers like that. Watching the BART police kill that one guy, was sickening. Shit like this sickens all of us good cops too, you think we like having the stigma on our head or being stereotyped the way most people stereotype us, because of a few pieces of trash out there, that disgrace the badge.
Please answer the question of post 181 then. Do you believe all of the men around Kelly Thomas who watched him get beat to death, while screaming for his daddy, are accomplices and should be tried as much? Do you think four year is sufficient for tasering and then beating a man to death with said taser? How do you feel of those standing and watching? Are they not just as guilty under the rule of law, Sir?

[Fivezeroes]

Please answer the question of post 181 then. Do you believe all of the men around Kelly Thomas who watched him get beat to death, while screaming for his daddy, are accomplices and should be tried as much? Do you think four year is sufficient for tasering and then beating a man to death with said taser? How do you feel of those standing and watching? Are they not just as guilty under the rule of law, Sir?


Answered, you wont find me offering any kind of support for monsters that disgrace the badge.

[kcchiefs6465]

Guilty by association, hell yea. They should all receive the death penalty. Kelly Thomas done nothing wrong. He didn't deserve what these animals did, and yes his friends his pseudo-brothers, all need to go down with him, for not stopping what was going on.
I apologize, I suppose you did answer. Why did the PBA of his respective city not condone this brutal murder? Why did no one [of that respective department, or in the country, as I recall] condone that murder?

[Fivezeroes]

I apologize, I suppose you did answer. Why did the PBA of his respective city not condone this brutal murder? Why did no one [of that respective department, or in the country, as I recall] condone that murder?

Is condone the word you're looking for or do you mean condemn? Because it's a good thing they didn't condone what that animal did... However, if they didn't condemn it and instead did condone what happened, then they're pieces of shit too. They're all disgraces to the badge.

[kcchiefs6465]

Further, [and I honestly regretably forgot about this man] why did said cop only get 4 years? Beating a man with said issued taser seems extreme, even from an officer safety standpoint. Now I am not condoning you for not speaking out against this. No one in America hardly cared, and they won't for the next, but to even consider a 4 year prison sentence for a man who visibly beat another man to death? And no accomplices? You could imagine how people fucking feel..

[cjm]

If your state is anything like mine,

It's exactly like yours. See the location field under my user name.


if you're open carrying and a LEO asks you whether you have a license to carry and it's not loaded, all you have to respond with is according to the laws of this state, you are not allowed to ask me that. (make sure it's like that in your state) most states do not require a registration for your firearm as long as you don't conceal it. And no cop is allowed to ask you otherwise. If the officer keeps pressing the matter, provide said license / registration and then get their badge number and report it to the mayor if the police chief refuses to listen.

Most LEO wont even bother you as long as your weapon isn't concealed. Again, I said most, you do have stupid ones out there.

I'm sorry if I'm being a pest, but I still don't see the trick. It would be a bit silly to carry an unloaded firearm, wouldn't it? So if I'm open carrying, and the LEO asks if I have a license to carry and if the weapon is loaded, what's the downside of saying, "I don't need a license and yes, it's loaded."?

[Fivezeroes]

Further, [and I honestly regretably forgot about this man] why did said cop only get 4 years? Beating a man with said issued taser seems extreme, even from an officer safety standpoint. Now I am not condoning you for not speaking out against this. No one in America hardly cared, and they won't for the next, but to even consider a 4 year prison sentence for a man who visibly beat another man to death? And no accomplices? You could imagine how people fucking feel..



I truly wish I knew the answer to why some cops get off so easily. Murder is murder, I don't care if you're wearing a badge or not.

[kcchiefs6465]

Is condone the word you're looking for or do you mean condemn? Because it's a good thing they didn't condone what that animal did... However, if they didn't condemn it and instead did condone what happened, then they're pieces of shit too. They're all disgraces to the badge.
I'm looking for condemn. Why didn't anyone speak out against it? From the department, from the PBA, nationally?

I apologize for my misuse of words. McCain and Graham's treasonous asses have had me on a particularly early drunken morning.

[Fivezeroes]

It's exactly like yours. See the location field under my user name.



I'm sorry if I'm being a pest, but I still don't see the trick. It would be a bit silly to carry an unloaded firearm, wouldn't it? So if I'm open carrying, and the LEO asks if I have a license to carry and if the weapon is loaded, what's the downside of saying, "I don't need a license and yes, it's loaded."?


If I'm not mistaken, again, I'm going back 4 years ago, you can open carry a firearm as long as it's not loaded, but if it's loaded you must have your registration on you at all times. As long as you don't have a magazine in the gun, most cops wont bother you. The only time it's permissible to ask whether you're licensed is if a LEO suspects the weapon is loaded. With you having no magazine in the weapon, it's illegal for them to stop and ask, because it's against the 2nd and 3rd. Trying to remember stuff taught to you four years ago is a pain.

[cjm]

I'm no where close to culpepper... what was the circumstances on that one? What happened?

Here you go.


A little news from last week on this front.




Citizen Wants 'Open Investigation' Into Officer-Involved Shooting Of Patricia Cook

http://wusa9.com/news/article/204090/373/Citizen-Wants-Open-Investigation-Into-Officer-Involved-Shooting-Of-Patricia-Cook

CULPEPER, Va. (WUSA) -- It's been almost three months since a Culpeper Police Officer shot and killed a retired Sunday school teacher in a church school parking lot, yet there are still more questions than answers about what happened the day Patricia Cook was killed.

The investigation is now in the hands of Virginia State Police, a special prosecutor in Fauquier County, and a special investigative grand jury. But many people in Culpeper say the investigation is taking too long.

"I think it's a coverup," said Patricia Wise, a Culpeper resident as she walked past the site of the shooting Tuesday morning.

State Police say the officer, who's name has not been released, was responding to a report of a suspicious person sitting in a car in the Epiphany Catholic School parking lot. When the officer asked 54-year-old Patricia Cook for identification, she rolled up her window catching the officers arm inside, then drove off. Police say she was dragging him down the street when he opened fire.

But at least one eye witness says that account is incorrect:

"The window was halfway up. He said stop or I will shoot. I didn't think he was going to do it. But she got the window all the way up and that's when he shot her," said Kris Buchele.

So far, no charges have been filed against the officer. He is still on paid administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation. The only thing the town spokesman will say is that: ""The investigation is in the hands of a special prosecutor and the state police. Like everyone, we await the results of that investigation."

That response doesn't sit will with James Jennings, a Culpeper resident and retired elementary school teacher.

"Something just doesn't add up. How could this woman, who is a retired homemakers and who was unarmed, how could she be shot to death in a church school parking lot?" asked Jennings.

Last week, Jennings started a "Justice for Patricia Cook" Facebook page. He's also started an online petition requesting that criminal charges be filed against the officer. So far, he's received almost 350 signatures.

"Our primary focus is to ensure that all the details, evidence, and eyewitness accounts are brought out into the open," said Jennings. "This should not be closed-door investigation."

But other people in town, like Wayne Rinker, say Jenning's is causing more harm than good.

"I think people should just be patient and let the judicial system run it's course," said Rinker.

Virginia State Police haven't given any timeframe as to when their investigation will be complete. The special prosecutor in Fauqier County says it will be the end of June at the earliest before the grand jury has reached a decision.

[Fivezeroes]

I'm looking for condemn. Why didn't anyone speak out against it? From the department, from the PBA, nationally?

I apologize for my misuse of words. McCain and Graham's treasonous asses have had me on a particularly early drunken morning.


Again, I wish that I could give you that answer. When I first read about it, it literally broke my heart. It reminded me of something that someone from one of the other cities PDs did to a handicapped woman, who would dance everyday on the street in front of a hardees, they tased her, causing her to have a heart attack, she passed away a week later. Shit like that breaks my heart.

[jcannon98188]

If I'm not mistaken, again, I'm going back 4 years ago, you can open carry a firearm as long as it's not loaded, but if it's loaded you must have your registration on you at all times. As long as you don't have a magazine in the gun, most cops wont bother you. The only time it's permissible to ask whether you're licensed is if a LEO suspects the weapon is loaded. With you having no magazine in the weapon, it's illegal for them to stop and ask, because it's against the 2nd and 3rd. Trying to remember stuff taught to you four years ago is a pain.

As a cop it is kind of your job to remember this stuff bro.

[kcchiefs6465]

I'm literally amazed. They cheer for grandma murderers. The judge laughs. I have never seen such blatant corruption. I mean, it's sickening, IDGAF if you are a police officer or not. Are you not sickend by these State Highway Patrolmen in Florida laughing and applauding the grandmother's death? After said officer sped to rocks being thrown and impacted her car? Where's the sensitivity? Where's the humanity?

Give me a few minutes, I'll find that bullshit.

[Fivezeroes]

Here you go.


My god... if what is being said is true and he wasn't being dragged by the car, he had no right to shoot her.

[devil21]

When you arrest and/or testify against someone in court, you know your testimony to be true, and the defendant is found not guilty, how do you feel about it?

Furthermore, how do you feel about a person you know to be guilty getting off?

Also, how do you feel about jury nullification? How would you feel if a jury disagreed with you and said the law you charged with was unjust and acquitted?

(sorry if I repeated someone else, didn't read whole thread yet, wanted to ask question while I remembered it)

[Fivezeroes]

As a cop it is kind of your job to remember this stuff bro.



It's 3am cut me some slack.

[Fivezeroes]

When you arrest and/or testify against someone in court, you know your testimony to be true, and the defendant is found not guilty, how do you feel about it? It's basically how do you feel about a person you know to be guilty getting off?


I feel that the justice system did its job, even if someone gets off. They are innocent until proven guilty. I may not agree with the outcome, but that is why we have the court system.

[kcchiefs6465]

Again, I wish that I could give you that answer. When I first read about it, it literally broke my heart. It reminded me of something that someone from one of the other cities PDs did to a handicapped woman, who would dance everyday on the street in front of a hardees, they tased her, causing her to have a heart attack, she passed away a week later. Shit like that breaks my heart.
I'm not doubting you have good intentions and are a good man. Understand that a lot of people follow these atrocities and it's affirmed again and again that police officers are above the law. I love the Oath Keepers. If you are not yet a member I'd encourage to please join. But this has been going on for a while, I'd definitely support any police officers who spoke out against it.

[Fivezeroes]

I'm literally amazed. They cheer for grandma murderers. The judge laughs. I have never seen such blatant corruption. I mean, it's sickening, IDGAF if you are a police officer or not. Are you not sickend by these State Highway Patrolmen in Florida laughing and applauding the grandmother's death? After said officer sped to rocks being thrown and impacted her car? Where's the sensitivity? Where's the humanity?

Give me a few minutes, I'll find that bullshit.


It sickens me, as you can tell, I'm not one of this officers that is going to just agree with whatever these officers do. If one officer does something bad it further erodes the trust that non LEO have in us.

[kcchiefs6465]

I'm literally amazed. They cheer for grandma murderers. The judge laughs. I have never seen such blatant corruption. I mean, it's sickening, IDGAF if you are a police officer or not. Are you not sickend by these State Highway Patrolmen in Florida laughing and applauding the grandmother's death? After said officer sped to rocks being thrown and impacted her car? Where's the sensitivity? Where's the humanity?

Give me a few minutes, I'll find that bullshit.
Plus rep for anyone who saves me the time... it was about 2 weeks ago in Florida. I looked and can't find it. [blaming McCain again, lol]

[devil21]

I feel that the justice system did its job, even if someone gets off. They are innocent until proven guilty. I may not agree with the outcome, but that is why we have the court system.

Thanks. Good to hear. I wonder if cops sometimes take out frustration about court outcomes on the next guy. I added another question about jury nullification btw.

[cjm]

If I'm not mistaken, again, I'm going back 4 years ago, you can open carry a firearm as long as it's not loaded, but if it's loaded you must have your registration on you at all times. As long as you don't have a magazine in the gun, most cops wont bother you. The only time it's permissible to ask whether you're licensed is if a LEO suspects the weapon is loaded. With you having no magazine in the weapon, it's illegal for them to stop and ask, because it's against the 2nd and 3rd. Trying to remember stuff taught to you four years ago is a pain.

No permit, registration, or documentation of any form is required to open carry a loaded handgun in Virginia. Well, maybe proof of age (minimum age for OC is 18 here). You must be really tired this evening, eh?

[Fivezeroes]

Thanks. Good to hear. I wonder if cops sometimes take out frustration about court outcomes on the next guy. I added another question about jury nullification btw.


To answer your question, if the jury did that, again, it's the justice system at work. It may be flawed but I try not to question it. If they feel that an arrest I made was unlawful then I would respect that decision, as it's one of the reasons why our nation is so great.

I've never taken my frustration out on the next guy when someone got off, what sense would that make, although, I'm quite sure it has happened.

[Fivezeroes]

No permit, registration, or documentation of any form is required to open carry a loaded handgun in Virginia. Well, maybe proof of age (minimum age for OC is 18 here). You must be really tired this evening, eh?


Haven't been able to sleep, my son is sick as hell, couple that with the fact that I just pulled 16 hrs, well you get the picture. I also wont pretend to be a walking law book, because even I didn't know that and I'm a cop. Not the age thing, the documentation if the weapon is loaded part.

[Professor8000]

My experience working in law enforcement is that good help is hard to come by. Finding competent people is next to impossible, and once you find someone competent, in corporate security, the person has to also not be a total jackass. This translates to months and months of unfilled positions. I have trained many an incompetent jackass, that I wouldn't trust to guard a parking lot, who later goes off to the police academy and goes to work at a police department making 2.5 times my pay. Then there are those jems who commit financial suicide and leave the force to join our ranks in private security because they are tired of the corruption in the force. Those guys are hard to keep around for long because they realize how valuable they actually are, and soon find higher pay.
The employee pool breaks down like this: the bottom 25% are incompetent jackasses, the middle 50% are either incompetent or jackasses, and the top 25% are actually competent and personable. While I don't think that it is a direct comparison, there has to be some similarity between the private and public Law Enforcement employee pools.
While I'm not going to join in on the busting of Fivezeros' balls, I will say this. If you stick around long enough, we'll make a halfway decent anarchist out of you in a few years.

[kcchiefs6465]

Those who are anarchists may say...

[Fivezeroes]

My experience working in law enforcement is that good help is hard to come by. Finding competent people is next to impossible, and once you find someone competent, in corporate security, the person has to also not be a total jackass. This translates to months and months of unfilled positions. I have trained many an incompetent jackass, that I wouldn't trust to guard a parking lot, who later goes off to the police academy and goes to work at a police department making 2.5 times my pay. Then there are those jems who commit financial suicide and leave the force to join our ranks in private security, because they are tired of the corruption in the force. Those guys are hard to keep around for long because they realize how valuable they actually are, and soon find higher pay.
The employee pool breaks down like this: the bottom 25% are incompetent jackasses, the middle 50% are either incompetent or jackasses, and the top 25% are actually competent and personable. While I don't think that it is a direct comparison, there has to be some similarity between the private and public Law Enforcement employee pools.
While I'm not going to join in on the busting of Fivezeros' balls, I will say this. If you stick around long enough, we'll make a halfway decent anarchist out of you in a few years.

I'm already a half decent anarchist. And you couldn't be more right, finding competent officers is hard to come by. Out of an academy class of 35, 15 may make it, out of those 15, 13 are going to be complete jackasses, that might last two to three years on the force. The other two are going to go on to become damn fine officers. If only we could clone the good ones.


BTW bust away, I'm having a blast doing this.

[Professor8000]

As an anarchist, I can say this. Once you start to question the morality of government action, the questions don't end until there are no exceptions to the rules.

[Fivezeroes]

As an anarchist, I can say this. Once you start to question the morality of government action, the questions don't end until there are no exceptions to the rules.



I started questioning our governments morality years ago.

[kcchiefs6465]

I'm already a half decent anarchist. And you couldn't be more right, finding competent officers is hard to come by. Out of an academy class of 35, 15 may make it, out of those 15, 13 are going to be complete jackasses, that might last two to three years on the force. The other two are going to go on to become damn fine officers. If only we could clone the good ones.


BTW bust away, I'm having a blast doing this.
Hmm, I wonder how long the officer who beat Kelly Thomas to death was on the job?

I figured I had a little bit of a breakthrough moment but fuck it.

[Fivezeroes]

Hmm, I wonder how long the officer who beat Kelly Thomas to death was on the job?

I figured I had a little bit of a breakthrough moment but fuck it.


Wouldn't they say in the news articles how long he was on the force?

[jcannon98188]

They say the problem with police is that it requires a man strong enough to always do the right thing, but does nothing to make those men want the job (paraphrased)

[Fivezeroes]

They say the problem with police is that it requires a man strong enough to always do the right thing, but does nothing to make those men want the job (paraphrased)


We have recruiters that go around looking for the right people, sadly, a lot of those people that they talk to simply don't want to be in such a dangerous profession.

[Professor8000]

I started on this quest 4 years ago. I was a fresh high school drop out during the summer of 2008 with not a job to be had in sight. It gave me plenty of time to browse the internet for 2 years. Then I got a job in security, and got paid to browse the internet. It was the best damn education that you can't even pay for.

[Fivezeroes]

I started on this quest 4 years ago. I was a fresh high school drop out during the summer of 2008 with not a job to be had in sight. It gave me plenty of time to browse the internet for 2 years. Then I got a job in security, and got paid to browse the internet. It was the best damn education that you can't even pay for.


Nothing wrong with that.

Anyway, I'm off to bed, catch all of you guys sometime tomorrow. Thank god, I'm on my 4 day off stretch. Damn fun debating with all of ya, if you guys have any more questions don't hesitate to ask. If I can answer I will.

[devil21]

To answer your question, if the jury did that, again, it's the justice system at work. It may be flawed but I try not to question it. If they feel that an arrest I made was unlawful then I would respect that decision, as it's one of the reasons why our nation is so great.

I've never taken my frustration out on the next guy when someone got off, what sense would that make, although, I'm quite sure it has happened.

Keep up the good work. Like Ron Paul is a great icon in a sea of snakes, you sound like a great example of a peace officer among a sea of snakes. I hope you continue to work to ensure your coworkers stay honest and accountable.

[kcchiefs6465]

http://i.imgur.com/O4eSQIW.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/krNPp58.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/QMXXydu.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/Hq1N3Ea.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/HgYXoZj.jpg?1



http://i.imgur.com/zK38LsH.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/HfOIcxD.jpg?1

[kcchiefs6465]

http://i.imgur.com/1bACVSX.jpg?1

[cjm]

Haven't been able to sleep, my son is sick as hell, couple that with the fact that I just pulled 16 hrs, well you get the picture. I also wont pretend to be a walking law book, because even I didn't know that and I'm a cop. Not the age thing, the documentation if the weapon is loaded part.

Well, I learned something today too. Apparently in some localities there is a magazine capacity restriction (which is removed with a permit). This might be what you were thinking of:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-287.4



§ 18.2-287.4. Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty.

It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public street, road, alley, sidewalk, public right-of-way, or in any public park or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public in the Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William.

The provisions of this section shall not apply to law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit or to any person actually engaged in lawful hunting or lawful recreational shooting activities at an established shooting range or shooting contest. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

The exemptions set forth in § 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section.

(1991, c. 570; 1992, c. 790; 2003, c. 976; 2004, c. 995; 2005, c. 160; 2007, c. 813.)

So a firearm with greater than a 20 round magazine must be unloaded in several localities without a permit. Heh, who knew? (I'm three hours from the nearest one of those listed localities)

EDIT: If you get folks from outside your area who are unaware of this restriction (as most probably are), I think a warning would be fair. This is pretty obscure stuff. I'm pretty up on Virginia firearms laws and I had no idea about this until tonight.

[Neil Desmond]

He's either a LT or a Captain one, I'm not sure what New York's uniforms look like as far as rank goes, but that right there is why he walked. Because of his bullshit rank. I told you, it's always political when shit like that happens. Had you done that to a cop, you would have served a mandatory 2 years for assault on a police officer.
The police officer in the white shirt was a lieutenant, and his name is Jonathan Josey.

I have some questions for you, but there are already 20 pages on this thread; so if you've already answered, the post # in the upper right will suffice.

1. Should we have laws that differ between cops and private citizens? For example, if someone can get mandatory 2 years for assaulting a cop, then shouldn't a cop get the same for assaulting someone?

2. Have you researched this incident from that video for yourself? Although he struck that woman I'm not sure it was intentional or not. I briefly did some poking around online, and from what I found he was arrested, suspended, and eventually fired. If it was unintentional, do you think he was wronged by being fired? He was acquitted, not by a jury, but by a judge married to a woman who is a Philadelphia police officer; do you think he should have been tried by a jury, and do you think that the judge being married to a police officer is a conflict of interests? There is an investigation being done by some entity (don't remember who or what it is exactly) into Josey's acquittal.

3. This is regarding your response, regardless of whether Josey actually assault her or accidentally struck her while attempting to do something else, it seems that what you're implying here is that the law enforcement system or model of having police departments is a failure. Is that what you are saying? Is there a remedy or solution for this or any other issue involving law enforcement being in effect above the law, in the situation for when it does happen?

4. Not only do I think there is a chronic problem with the existence of victimless crime and unconstitutional "laws", but I also question whether the existence of police departments (all of them) in this country is appropriate or not. I think that law enforcement should probably only be done by an elected sheriff rather than career-based bureaucrats; people can still train at a police academy and get certification, but they cannot wear a badge and enforce laws in an "official" capacity until and unless directed by the sheriff (and maybe his or her deputies with the authorization to do so). How do you feel about this?

[devil21]

First, I'd like to remind everyone to:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

Everyone that posted on this thread, including me, just broke a cardinal rule. Outside of internet bs, I have pledged to myself for my own safety to never talk to police ever. I am from VA and it's a friggin police state, regardless of how good this officer's responses are.

Any response the officer gave in this thread regarding actual legal issues such as open carrying is wrong, unless it was simply "don't talk to police." I never saw a post from the officer saying not to talk to the police. Most of the people he convicted talked.

[tangent4ronpaul]

00000,

I've only read half the thread, but you ruined most of the puzzle in post #85 :(

I had gotten it down to 11 states (first pass), with a good probability in 6 - well, really the first 3 or 5 (second/third pass), in order of:

OR
AZ
VA
CA
FL
and
NY


Any more questions ask away, except for my badge number of course and which police department I work for. I would prefer to remain anonymous as well, just in case the higher ups don't appreciate me doing this.

My guesses, in order, are that you work for:
Richmond PD
Norfolk PD
VA Beach PD

I suppose NOVA is poss, but I really doubt it.

Part of me also wonders if you work for a fusion center or similar and are trying to work up a profile on us. Especially as a confederate showed up...

-t

[tod evans]

One line of questioning from me...

Are you actively involved in any local activism that directly affects current law?

Specifically I'm inquiring whether or not you are publicly speaking out about laws that you have stated you find objectionable..

Do you have the intestinal fortitude to speak against these laws while on the witness stand?

Have you ever proffered honest testimony to the defense?


Notice, none of what I asked is illegal or even immoral, in fact most would consider such behavior ethical...

So sir, are you an ethical police officer or are you going along to get along?

[V3n]

My guesses, in order, are that you work for:

Don't do that.. he's putting himself out there by answering these questions, he's been a good sport, and he seems like one of the good ones. Outing him is just doing the work of the 'bad ones' for them, so they can come down on him, and they didn't even have to put the puzzle together for themselves.. PM him if the curiosity is killing you, but I don't think this is very cool.

It's going to scare him away.

:(

[tangent4ronpaul]

I'm torn on who he is.

Granted, I've only read half the thread.

The guy w/ 28 posts who registered in 2011 suddenly popping up and is going RaRaRa!!!! Really makes me wonder....

First pass: You mentioned that 17 is underage is a sexual context. There are only 11 states that view it this way. Go back a decade or two and the AOC varied between 12 and 21... depending on the state. Now it is 16-18. Most states are 16. Yes - most have "within so many years" clauses. Some do not!

The second pass has to do with the migratory routes of runaways...

The third pass has to do with the occurrence of street gangs - and I guess I lied.... :( I considered other factors...
Drug use
Prostitution
Poverty
Shit like that...

It looks like you are busting the johns of runaways, who if they have a pimp have probably hooked them on crack in order to control them. This can make a 15yo look like a 35yo! and massively reduce there life expectancy. It also looks like you work a rough neighborhood. Or else you are busting teen parities and confiscating their cell phones n/ busting them for "sexting"...

:mad:

-t


-t

[PaulConventionWV]

Now, I know that the word police officer doesn't sit well with most people here. I know that a lot of cops have given you guys a bad taste in your mouth; especially with all the reports of police brutally beating inmates and going around killing dogs to name a few.

I have been an officer for going on four years now, you probably ask why I joined the force to begin with. The simple answer is like most police officers, I wanted to make a difference in my community. I know that sentence right there got quite a few scoffs. But, that's the truth. I joined because I was tired of seeing all the drug dealers, pedophiles, and plain old common criminals destroy the city that I grew up in. So four years ago, I joined the force.

In those four years, I have seen pretty much every horror you can think of, child pornography in the hands of those sworn to protect this country, members of the military. I have seen gang bangers dead in the middle of the street, brain matter on the side-walk where they were gunned down. I have seen women beaten so badly by their significant others and not wanting to press charges, that it sickened me. I have even seen my fair share of suicides, which are some of the worse things to ever witness.

I have arrested quite a few people, I have helped a woman give birth (I don't know how doctors do this), I have taken many many pedophiles off the streets, not once have I asked for praise or anything like that, I saw it as doing my job. In all the time I have been on the force, I have NEVER once stepped on someone's constitutional rights. Most cops can't say that, most cops smirk when you even mention the thought of regular citizens having rights. I have also never killed anyone's dog, whether it was a suspect's dog or just a regular family dog that came running to me, when I went out to check out a domestic disturbance. I have had hostile dogs try to attack me, but, a squirt of pepper spray took care of that. I have even saved a suspects life after they had a heart attack on me, while I was in the process of cuffing them.

I have received various awards over the years from the chief, again not to be a glory hound or anything like that, but to do what I set out to do, and that was protect people that couldn't protect themselves as well as protect my city. I guess what I'm trying to express in this post is that not all cops are bad, yes, there are the few that don't give two shits about your rights. But, they are few and far between. Every officer and I'm sure that I'm not the only one on these boards, that see the police brutality videos are both saddened and sickened by our fellow officers behaviors. I know that when you guys see it, you automatically think that all cops are like that, that all of us just want to rule the world and beat you down for the littlest of reasons, but again that's far from the truth. Most of us just want to do our jobs, nothing less.

So while I understand why you guys have a certain distrust of us, I ask that you don't lump us all into that group. If I were like the cops you see in that video, I'd be pissed off at how many times you guys have used the word pig, and the fact that some of you even advocate mowing us down. However that is the glory of the Constitution, you can say what you want as long as it remains words, no one needs to go acting on such suggestions, no matter how bad a cop is.

And before I'm asked... the how many question, here is your answers.

Dogs killed: 0
Suspects killed during arrest: 0
Pedo's off the street: 30-ish
Hard Drug Dealers: Over 100

Oh and if you ask about my name, why I called myself Fivezeroes, just another word for the cops. lol. 5.0

Any more questions ask away, except for my badge number of course and which police department I work for. I would prefer to remain anonymous as well, just in case the higher ups don't appreciate me doing this.

You say you haven't violated anyone's Constitutional rights, but by virtue of doing your job, you HAVE. Drug dealers are not criminals in the eyes of the forefathers, or in the Constitution. They are only criminals in today's Un-constitutional America. If you've ticketed anyone for speeding, if you've arrested them for possession of marijuana or ANY other drug, then you're violating their Constitutional rights.

As for the "only a small minority of cops are bad" idea, I'll believe that when I see it.

[MelissaCato]

Brave post fivezeros. Are you an OathKeeper (http://oathkeepers.org/oath/) yet ? If not, check it out and consider joining.

[jcannon98188]

00000,

BTW, I think the way his username is supposed to be shortened is 5-0

[QuickZ06]

If you really want to do some "real" cop work start arresting these corrupt bankers and politicians that have ruined our country, they do far more damage to your community than any thug will.

[bolil]

Pffft, a pretender. If this guy is a cop, I'm the queen of England.

[PursuePeace]

As far as petty stuff like give this person as many tickets as possible, I've never seen anything like it. I wont say it's not there, but, I've never seen it.

I was just joking. I was mostly just making the point that Virginia hands out a pretty hefty amount of traffic tickets. I don't know how they compare to the rest of the country, though.

[bolil]

I was just joking. I was mostly just making the point that Virginia hands out a pretty hefty amount of traffic tickets. I don't know how they compare to the rest of the country, though.

You will get more ingenuous answers out of a hoofed pig.

[Thor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8v7lF5ttlQ

[PaulConventionWV]

1. There are many unjust laws that I refuse to enforce, such as jailing someone who is doing 1 mile over the limit. Yes, that is means enough to put someone in jail and completely unjust especially when we get away with speeding. If you want a more specific answer, put which law you think is unjust, other than drug laws, which I have no choice but to follow as much as I hate to.

2. Fuck no, I refuse to shoot a fellow American, I don't want to shoot anyone if I can help it, and if given the order, I'd defect.

3. Nope, I would never allow myself to be bribed, nor would I pull anyone for speeding unless they were doing more than 10 miles over, after that I have no choice.

You DO have a choice, sir. All you are doing right now is rationalization. Do you realize that?

[PaulConventionWV]

Why does it matter what I say to you, your opinion about us is already made up? But, I'll tell you why.

Yes, it's to put food on the table for my kid and a roof over his head. I have a responsibility to him, to help him live a good life in this crappy world, with the way the economy is going, with there being hardly any jobs out there, this one keeps my son from being homeless.

As I said, if I can talk them into just surrendering peacefully it makes my day better, there is massive paper work to fill out when incidents of that nature happens. IA comes down on your ass hard if you intentionally hurt anyone. Like I said, I prefer not having to use brute force on anyone. But just because I use force to bring them to the ground doesn't mean that I have ever went overboard with it.

Just as I suspected... being a cop is the "easy way" out of being homeless, unemployed, or a minimum wage worker. Side benefit is you have immunity to the laws you enforce on the mundanes. Take the easy way out if you want, but don't expect my admiration. I think it's a despicable thing to join the Stasi just to feed your family at the expense of others, then fall back on the excuse that you "had no choice" because you were "just following orders."

[Red Green]

You DO have a choice, sir. All you are doing right now is rationalization. Do you realize that?

+1 on that.

I have to admit, I hate the police. I refer to them as "pigs" and do so for good reason. You do realize you are simply the hired muscle for the gang of criminals that call themselves "government" don't you?

Virtually everyone on this board has financial responsibilities. I have financial responsibilities and kids to pay for, but I absolutely refuse to work for the government in any capacity, let alone being their muscle.

If you think pulling people over for doing 11mph over the speed limit is serving the community, you're delusional. If you have participated in any kind of suspicion-less checkpoints (DUI, Immigration, etc) you have willingly violated people's constitutional rights. The fact that you enforce drug laws means that you actually make the community you supposedly seek to serve less safe rather than more safe.

'Policing' as such should be done by the marketplace rather than just sending out a group of armed thugs who answer to those in government. Participating in that monopoly enriches you at the expense of everyone else.

[The Free Hornet]

Dogs killed: 0
Suspects killed during arrest: 0
Pedo's off the street: 30-ish
Hard Drug Dealers: Over 100


So you are the full-time protection arm for big tobacco, big alcohol, big pharma, big cotton, et cetera.

Screw you for thinking you contribute to society. You're a damn leech.


4. Drugs in my opinion should be legalized, it would save a lot of tax payer money and would clear up jail cells for the real criminals out there, the rapist, murderers etc. Did you know that someone in possession of an 8ball of crack, will get almost as much time as a rapist. Where's the justice in that? As for the whole non-violent thing, there have been times when I've had a pothead resist, most of the time you can talk them down, the last thing I want to have to do is slam someone into the ground hurting them.

Actions speak 1000000000 time louder than words.

[jllundqu]

I think this forum would be surpirsed how many of us Paulistas are current active duty LEOs... even the dreaded (bum bum BUUUM!!!) DHS (Ohhhh... ahhhh...)

;)

[The Free Hornet]

What you have to realize is even with drugs legalized, unless they start selling it OTC at the pharmacy, you're still going to have your territorial disputes between said bangers. I'm all for the legalization, if they put it on store shelves like they did with alcohol after prohibition was lifted, then even the territorial wars would go away, because neither side would have anything to sell. I just wish, that our dumbass government could see this. [you can't be so naive as to think they don't know this, collectively as well generally as individuals]

The government is not as fucking stupid as you seem to pretend. It may lie to itself as well as the people but that is immaterial. The pols don't care are about the effectiveness of any war aside from

1) did it get me elected/re-elected?
2) did this enrich my donors?

Like yourself, some pols will fill themselves with lies to maintain cognitive dissonance and keep collecting paychecks.

You could live in a gated community with multi-million dollar homes and still have "territorial disputes" (think Kicking'n'Screaming (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0384642/) with Coach Ditka blowing his leaves over the fence).

What matters is the nature of those disputes including the frequency, affect on livelihood (how us 'civs' earn our living), relative danger, and access to means of dispute resolution. The fucking drug warriors ensure:

frequency: all the time, 24x7 versus fall/leaf season
livelihood: end the competition or go out of business versus zero affect on livelihood
relative danger: your competition will kill you versus leaf debri may blow into your eye
resolution: no access to courts versus lawyers already on retainer

[tod evans]

I think this forum would be surpirsed how many of us Paulistas are current active duty LEOs... even the dreaded (bum bum BUUUM!!!) DHS (Ohhhh... ahhhh...)

;)

I am not, nor have I ever been, in any type of LEO position.

Personally I'd rather house my family in a tent and eat rabbits-n-squirrels than compromise my beliefs.

But that's me.......

[jllundqu]

I am not, nor have I ever been, in any type of LEO position.

Personally 'd rather house my family in a tent and eat rabbits-n-squirrels than compromise my beliefs.

But that's me.......

So you're implying that working in law enforcement equates to compromising one's beliefs?

[phill4paul]

So you're implying that working in law enforcement equates to compromising one's beliefs?

I think he made it clear it would compromise HIS beliefs...

[Fivezeroes]

The police officer in the white shirt was a lieutenant, and his name is Jonathan Josey.

I have some questions for you, but there are already 20 pages on this thread; so if you've already answered, the post # in the upper right will suffice.

1. Should we have laws that differ between cops and private citizens? For example, if someone can get mandatory 2 years for assaulting a cop, then shouldn't a cop get the same for assaulting someone?

2. Have you researched this incident from that video for yourself? Although he struck that woman I'm not sure it was intentional or not. I briefly did some poking around online, and from what I found he was arrested, suspended, and eventually fired. If it was unintentional, do you think he was wronged by being fired? He was acquitted, not by a jury, but by a judge married to a woman who is a Philadelphia police officer; do you think he should have been tried by a jury, and do you think that the judge being married to a police officer is a conflict of interests? There is an investigation being done by some entity (don't remember who or what it is exactly) into Josey's acquittal.

3. This is regarding your response, regardless of whether Josey actually assault her or accidentally struck her while attempting to do something else, it seems that what you're implying here is that the law enforcement system or model of having police departments is a failure. Is that what you are saying? Is there a remedy or solution for this or any other issue involving law enforcement being in effect above the law, in the situation for when it does happen?

4. Not only do I think there is a chronic problem with the existence of victimless crime and unconstitutional "laws", but I also question whether the existence of police departments (all of them) in this country is appropriate or not. I think that law enforcement should probably only be done by an elected sheriff rather than career-based bureaucrats; people can still train at a police academy and get certification, but they cannot wear a badge and enforce laws in an "official" capacity until and unless directed by the sheriff (and maybe his or her deputies with the authorization to do so). How do you feel about this?


Okay, seems like I have a lot of questions to answer.

1. No, officers are not above the law by any means. We're exactly like regular joes out there, the only thing that makes us different is the fact we wear a badge. We should not have different laws that protect us. IMHO that contributes to the massive hatred that we cops receive.

2. It didn't look unintentional to me, you don't punch anyone period. They teach us the right way to take down a suspect and punching one in the face isn't one of those ways. I feel that him being fired was the right thing to do -- as for him being acquitted by the judge married to a LEO, I think that the prosecutors should have asked the judge to recuse (sp) himself since it's now a conflict of interest.

3. With what I have seen, it would seem that the academies that a lot of these cops went through were failures, their chief should have the balls to lay down some regulations.

4. I agree, in the municipality that I'm in we have a Sheriff's Department and a Police Department, sadly, the city pretty much stripped the Sheriff of any real power when they ordered the PD formed. I am all for a Sheriff selecting his own men, I mean, if only he could get more like minded people such as himself then we'd be the best PD out there.

[tod evans]

So you're implying that working in law enforcement equates to compromising one's beliefs?

I wouldn't portend to ascribe my beliefs to you or anyone else.

Why, do you want to argue?

[Fivezeroes]

00000,

I've only read half the thread, but you ruined most of the puzzle in post #85 :(

I had gotten it down to 11 states (first pass), with a good probability in 6 - well, really the first 3 or 5 (second/third pass), in order of:

OR
AZ
VA
CA
FL
and
NY



My guesses, in order, are that you work for:
Richmond PD
Norfolk PD
VA Beach PD

I suppose NOVA is poss, but I really doubt it.

Part of me also wonders if you work for a fusion center or similar and are trying to work up a profile on us. Especially as a confederate showed up...

-t


Your guesses were so close it wasn't funny, but to answer your question. No, I'm not making dossiers on anyone here. I like all of you believe in freedom of speech, freedom of liberty. If I was ordered to profile all of you, I'd ignore it.

[Fivezeroes]

One line of questioning from me...

Are you actively involved in any local activism that directly affects current law?

Specifically I'm inquiring whether or not you are publicly speaking out about laws that you have stated you find objectionable..

Do you have the intestinal fortitude to speak against these laws while on the witness stand?

Have you ever proffered honest testimony to the defense?


Notice, none of what I asked is illegal or even immoral, in fact most would consider such behavior ethical...

So sir, are you an ethical police officer or are you going along to get along?


1. When we had the occupy going on in this section, I was there. Speaking my mind. I didn't get reprimanded for it so obviously that was a good thing. I thought for sure I would have been suspended but it's a good thing that the chief is liberty minded.

2. Some laws I can't speak out about publicly, even if I wanted to, however, I do express my concerns to my fellow officers, as well as the chief. It's not everyday that a regular street cop can sit with the chief and bullshit about politics. Who knows, eventually I may run for office to try and change some of these bullshit laws we have, at least in this state.

3. I've never had to testify in anything like that, but, if it was a law that I didn't agree with then yea, I'd speak out about it.

4. When you're called to the witness stand and place your hand on that bible you swear to tell the truth, I have never held back any facts from a defense attorney, I'm not trying to ruin anyone's life, especially if it's over drugs. So if asked how many plants were seized from a house, if it was 24 (which is a misdemeanor) I'm not going to say I found 25 to make it a felony.



I'll let you decide from my answers whether or not you feel that I'm an ethical officer or not.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Your guesses were so close it wasn't funny, but to answer your question. No, I'm not making dossiers on anyone here. I like all of you believe in freedom of speech, freedom of liberty. If I was ordered to profile all of you, I'd ignore it.


We're getting profiled electronically anyway, much more efficiently than a human would do. So cop or not, I'd say you're definitely not making dossiers.