They're not really tanks....From Drudge

[tod evans]

Obama DHS Purchases 2,700 Light-Armored Tanks to Go With Their 1.6 Billion Bullet Stockpile

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/03/obama-dhs-purchases-2700-light-armored-tanks-to-go-with-their-1-6-billion-bullet-stockpile/


Modern Survival Blog reported:

The Department of Homeland Security (through the U.S. Army Forces Command) recently retrofitted 2,717 of these ‘Mine Resistant Protected’ vehicles for service on the streets of the United States.

Although I’ve seen and read several online blurbs about this vehicle of late, I decided to dig slightly deeper and discover more about the vehicle itself.

The new DHS sanctioned ‘Street Sweeper’ (my own slang due to the gun ports) is built by Navistar Defense (NavistarDefense.com), a division within the Navistar organization. Under the Navistar umbrella are several other companies including International Trucks, IC Bus (they make school buses), Monaco RV (recreational vehicles), WorkHorse (they make chassis), MaxxForce (diesel engines), and Navistar Financial (the money arm of the company).

DHS even released a video on their newly purchased MRAPs.
Via Pat Dollard:

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/homeland-security-mrap.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0pS9aw5pcJo

The MRAP featured in this video is was in Albuquerque, New Mexico for Law Enforcement Day which was held at a local area Target Store. This MRAP is stationed in El Paso, Texas at The Homeland Security Investigations Office. MRAP is a Mine Resistant Armor Protected Vehicle.

[ghengis86]

Awesome! This will repel those dirty Muslim invaders and surely keep us safe! Hiel Homeland!

[tod evans]

Warrant service on homes according to the video....:eek:

[shane77m]

Where are the weak spots?

[juleswin]

Where are the weak spots?

The eyes, douse that bad boy with paint and it becomes a useless paper weight. I think

[Origanalist]

Warrant service on homes according to the video....:eek:

Not going to watch it right now, don't want to ruin the entire day.

[fisharmor]

Awful nice of them to install ladders all around it.

[jclay2]

This is getting increasinly disturbing. First the 2 billion bullets, now they are purchasing thousands of tanks. All for "Domestic" activities. Wake up people!

[ClydeCoulter]

National Police

[belian78]

Sticky bombs to the wheel wells.

[shane77m]

http://www.amazon.com/Davids-Tool-Kit-Citizens-Brothers/dp/155950143X


A Citizen's Guide to Taking Out Big Brother's Heavy Weapons|n|by Ragnar Benson. |n|What do you do when faced with the overwhelming firepower of a ruthless authority? FIGHT BACK, that's what. Weapons expert Ragnar Benson provides citizens defenders with the information they need to mount a successful campaign against overwhelming odds...and win

Can also be found for free. Just do the Google.

[EBounding]

Kool! where can i get one???

[Origanalist]

Kool! where can i get one???

Sign up to protect the fatherland comrad.

[Cleaner44]

A mine resistant armored personnel carrier for serving warrants to illegal immigrants... are they serious? Do they have any idea how stupid that appears?

[jclay2]

A mine resistant armored personnel carrier for serving warrants to illegal immigrants... are they serious? Do they have any idea how stupid that appears?

To a logical and inquiring mind...yes, it is completely rediculous. To a nice asleep sheeple...completely understandable.

[The Goat]

That will keep the filthy illegals out!

SMH

[AngryCanadian]

Where are the weak spots?
The Vehicle Commander. If you can manage it that is, but after seeing that video bullets wouldn't able. You will need heavier fire power to be able to do that.

[fisharmor]

Paint drops are like $5 a gallon at the home improvement stores, and even the hot pink ones do just fine for covering a tiny windshield.

[shane77m]

Paint drops are like $5 a gallon at the home improvement stores, and even the hot pink ones do just fine for covering a tiny windshield.

I would recommend oil based paint. It is harder to get off than water based. Perhaps even an epoxy based paint would be good. I have never messed with it though. Need a good long distance delivery system. Some type of potato gun?

[Demigod]

Burn the tires.With all that weight it will not be going anywhere on rims alone.Also I doubt the top is nearly as armored as the sides and those bars would make it really easy to get on the vehicle and stay there.

[fisharmor]

I would recommend oil based paint. It is harder to get off than water based. Perhaps even an epoxy based paint would be good. I have never messed with it though. Need a good long distance delivery system. Some type of potato gun?

Water balloon launcher. No propellant, range of about 100 yards, fits in a shopping bag, made of easily obtainable materials. Only drawback is that it requires three operators.

[jclay2]

Water balloon launcher. No propellant, range of about 100 yards, fits in a shopping bag, made of easily obtainable materials. Only drawback is that it requires three operators.

Not really. Get two trees to hold the launcher in place and you can make it a one man operation. Probably could rig together a portable launching device for one person as well. Really just need two metal stakes and you are good to go.

[shane77m]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5ozLplWlDBs/UStXw223qgI/AAAAAAAAVgo/0UlYxoMQwtE/s1600/SyrianDIY.jpg

[andrew1229649]

Burn the tires.With all that weight it will not be going anywhere on rims alone.Also I doubt the top is nearly as armored as the sides and those bars would make it really easy to get on the vehicle and stay there.

I'm sure a batch of napalm would get them suckers burning in no time.

[Expatriate]

Also, the bullets they bought aren't really bullets, they're kinetic justice units.

Remember, in gov't hands, this is a Personal Defense Weapon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_defense_weapon) (PDW). If a normal citizen wants to own it, it's an Baby-Seeking Assault Cannon.

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/5381/armsatndiasmallarmssymppb9.jpg

[Icymudpuppy]

Awful nice of them to install ladders all around it.

Those are anti-RPG cages. Designed to catch a soviet style rocket propelled grenade in the slats so that it's detonator cannot go off.

[Icymudpuppy]

Burn the tires.With all that weight it will not be going anywhere on rims alone.Also I doubt the top is nearly as armored as the sides and those bars would make it really easy to get on the vehicle and stay there.

Those are run-flat tires. It'll slow them down, it won't stop them. The rims have a solid interior core. The inside of the hubs are the weakest spot. I was Battalion Maintenance Officer for my unit in Iraq.

[TonySutton]

Water balloon launcher. No propellant, range of about 100 yards, fits in a shopping bag, made of easily obtainable materials. Only drawback is that it requires three operators.

Or just mud. Mud is easy to make just about everywhere and you only need two ingredients which are both easily obtainable. If you use diesel to make the mud instead of water it might catch on fire easily ;) and further obscure vision of those inside while also marking the target for other friendly's in your team.

[Todd]

welp...he told ya so.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s

[S.Shorland]

Plus after one of those drives over your legs,Keynesian economics will still be the governing ideology over you.

[seraphson]

Here's the Trillion dollar question. Why do we need, on American soil, MINE RESISTANT armored vehicles? What? Is the husband of a little old lady they're going to bust for having expired medicine she forgot about from a surgery a couple years ago going to line the block with IEDs?

[MRK]

A mine resistant armored personnel carrier for serving warrants to illegal immigrants... are they serious? Do they have any idea how stupid that appears?

If you're not a criminal you have nothing to worry about.

Nothing.

These aren't the droids you're looking for.

Move along.

[talkingpointes]

I would recommend oil based paint. It is harder to get off than water based. Perhaps even an epoxy based paint would be good. I have never messed with it though. Need a good long distance delivery system. Some type of potato gun?

Epoxy would be the best but it's 130-200 for 5 gallon. It would absolutely destory the vehicle, and that includes making the windshields no longer visible.

[Expatriate]

Here's the Trillion dollar question. Why do we need, on American soil, MINE RESISTANT armored vehicles? What? Is the husband of a little old lady they're going to bust for having expired medicine she forgot about from a surgery a couple years ago going to line the block with IEDs?

Cop cars are hitting mines right and left nowadays, it's a slaughter I tell you.

[Pericles]

Where are the weak spots?

They have limited off road capability (manual says 10 mph max) and do a great job of conducting electricity to anything inside the vehicle.

[pcosmar]

They have limited off road capability (manual says 10 mph max) and do a great job of conducting electricity to anything inside the vehicle.

"Only please, Brer Fox, please don't throw me into the briar patch."

;)
.

[shane77m]

They have limited off road capability (manual says 10 mph max) and do a great job of conducting electricity to anything inside the vehicle.

Glad I live in the sticks.

[FSP-Rebel]

This is getting increasinly disturbing. First the 2 billion bullets, now they are purchasing thousands of tanks. All for "Domestic" activities. Wake up people!
Wish Rand would step up and criticize this type of wasteful and unneeded spending.

[Czolgosz]

Where are the weak spots?

The weak spot is always F = m*a

[Pericles]

Glad I live in the sticks.


http://defense-update.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/CAIMAN_BOGS.jpg

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3044/3099577073_326e986481_z.jpg

http://cdn1.pix.avaxnews.com/avaxnews/20/4e/00004e20_medium.jpeg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_CabHOZv_Yn4/SavkTRDQAUI/AAAAAAAAEgk/-3EZg0YQTo4/s400/CIMG1781.JPG

Armor guys well know to stay within the parameters of vehicle capabilities.





Panzerfaust (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerfaust)

[Todd]

http://defense-update.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/CAIMAN_BOGS.jpg

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3044/3099577073_326e986481_z.jpg

http://cdn1.pix.avaxnews.com/avaxnews/20/4e/00004e20_medium.jpeg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_CabHOZv_Yn4/SavkTRDQAUI/AAAAAAAAEgk/-3EZg0YQTo4/s400/CIMG1781.JPG

Armor guys well know to stay within the parameters of vehicle capabilities.





Panzerfaust (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerfaust)

Yep. Their pretty crappy field vehicles. Probably going to be used for urban herding.

[Pericles]

Yep. Their pretty crappy field vehicles. Probably going to be used for urban herding.

You may depend upon it.

[MisfitToy]

Probably going to be used for urban herding.

Lucky for us NYers bloomberg is too cheap to fix the roads beyond Manhattan. Can't believe the tires are still on my car with all the pot holes I endure on a daily basis.

[WM_in_MO]

Its a sad day in Amerika

[shane77m]

I wonder what it would take to crack the rear differential housing on one of those? If they are mine resistant it seems like it might be pretty tough. If they are like all vehicles I have ever worked on, the rear diff cover is generally thin stamped steel.

[jbauer]

I would recommend oil based paint. It is harder to get off than water based. Perhaps even an epoxy based paint would be good. I have never messed with it though. Need a good long distance delivery system. Some type of potato gun?

Hell I bet you coudl do better with great stuff if there was a way to deploy it. I got some of the shit on my door handle 5 years ago and its still there. The finish is wearing out from using the door so much but not where the great stuff is.

[AGRP]

Its a rescue vehicle. It says so on its side.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Where are the weak spots?

lotta great ideas in this thread! I would add:
cement truck or semi going fast...
it has blind spots at the back
it only has ONE door! - mig, oxy or thermite? Fast epoxy might do too perhaps followed by a Dorner...
the gun ports - bullets or gas
the hatch on top and anyone stupid enough to stick their head out of it.
the roof is going to be thinner...
materials set off to be sucked into the engine - thick burning fuel oil (smoke), heated fuel vapor like gasoline or nitromethane... not burning (yet)
thermite grenade on the hood
EMP
tank traps
fell some trees ahead and behind it, then keep them pinned down
and as with the Bearcat, given hook points - doing a gullivers travel with grappling hooks and metal cable...

I got the impression these were surplus, meaning they have major flaws, like not being that mine resistant, the single doot, the blind spots... or the old boy network enriched another military contractor, yet again. Bet there is something on this things problems in the center for lessons learned.


Here's the Trillion dollar question. Why do we need, on American soil, MINE RESISTANT armored vehicles? What? Is the husband of a little old lady they're going to bust for having expired medicine she forgot about from a surgery a couple years ago going to line the block with IEDs?

Not the little old lady - well, I guess here too - remember no hesitation targets... better questions are why does DHS need Billions of rounds of ammo, enough to fight a war for 27 hears? Why have they been buying up store-able food like Mountain House and MRE's to the extent that they are exhausting supplies in this country for several years? Why do they need 17,000 AR-15's? Why do they need a national spy network? Why do

Short answer: There is only one conceivable enemy worthy of that kind of response - the US population. When they start treating the US like Iraq and Afghanistan, you will find IED's in the roads.

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

Its a rescue vehicle. It says so on its side.

Did you notice all that AWESOME rescue equipment?

(there isn't any)

-t

[shane77m]

lotta great ideas in this thread! I would add:
cement truck or semi going fast...
it has blind spots at the back
it only has ONE door! - mig, oxy or thermite? Fast epoxy might do too perhaps followed by a Dorner...
the gun ports - bullets or gas
the hatch on top and anyone stupid enough to stick their head out of it.
the roof is going to be thinner...
materials set off to be sucked into the engine - thick burning fuel oil (smoke), heated fuel vapor like gasoline or nitromethane... not burning (yet)
thermite grenade on the hood
EMP
tank traps
fell some trees ahead and behind it, then keep them pinned down
and as with the Bearcat, given hook points - doing a gullivers travel with grappling hooks and metal cable...

I got the impression these were surplus, meaning they have major flaws, like not being that mine resistant, the single doot, the blind spots... or the old boy network enriched another military contractor, yet again. Bet there is something on this things problems in the center for lessons learned.



Not the little old lady - well, I guess here too - remember no hesitation targets... better questions are why does DHS need Billions of rounds of ammo, enough to fight a war for 27 hears? Why have they been buying up store-able food like Mountain House and MRE's to the extent that they are exhausting supplies in this country for several years? Why do they need 17,000 AR-15's? Why do they need a national spy network? Why do

Short answer: There is only one conceivable enemy worthy of that kind of response - the US population. When they start treating the US like Iraq and Afghanistan, you will find IED's in the roads.

-t

They are getting ready for that.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?406253-White-House-statement-on-countering-IED-s

[bunklocoempire]

Where are the weak spots?

Ladybug, ladybug fly away home,
Your house is on fire and your children are gone,
All except one, And her name is Ann,
And she hid under the baking pan.

That weak spot sorta depends on how interesting this all gets and how/when some safely tucked away higher-up escalates it all.

The New Orleans police desertion during Katrina was a beautiful thing IMO.

[Anti Federalist]

And some people have the nerve to say that this is not a parallel to pre war Germany or pre collapse USSR.

War on Us.

[Lucille]

The DHS's Latest Toy: "We have Gunports so We can Actually Shoot from Within the Vehicle"
http://reason.com/blog/2013/03/04/the-dhss-latest-toy-we-have-gunports-so

How fun for you guys.

[kcchiefs6465]

Those are anti-RPG cages. Designed to catch a soviet style rocket propelled grenade in the slats so that it's detonator cannot go off.
Not to nitpick but the detonator still would go off. The cage is to offset the Munroe effect. It explodes the rocket 8 or so inches away so that the melted copper [conical liner] cools enough as to not penetrate the armor.

Have you ever seen or heard about a rocket getting stuck in the cage and not detonating? To me it just sounds like a one in a million chance. I honestly don't know though.

[shane77m]

The DHS's Latest Toy: "We have Gunports so We can Actually Shoot from Within the Vehicle"
http://reason.com/blog/2013/03/04/the-dhss-latest-toy-we-have-gunports-so

How fun for you guys.

Expect this to be the scenario with the guy in the video.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?132690-Bestest-Picture-Thread-EVARRR&p=4888189&viewfull=1#post4888189

[fisharmor]

The DHS's Latest Toy: "We have Gunports so We can Actually Shoot from Within the Vehicle"
http://reason.com/blog/2013/03/04/the-dhss-latest-toy-we-have-gunports-so

How fun for you guys.


if there's an issue...we can shelter in place....10 or 11 operators in here, very tight but we can do it....

10 or 11 agents all in the same tin can?
I often forget how stupid these people are.

If things go South, it really is all up to what the military does, isn't it......

[Anti Federalist]

10 or 11 agents all in the same tin can?
I often forget how stupid these people are.

If things go South, it really is all up to what the military does, isn't it......

I'm hoping, as in past struggles, as the regime dies and can't pay them, they, mostly, go home or wander off.

[Original_Intent]

Lol, "Police/Rescue"/ We're from the government, and we're here to help you!

[shane77m]

Hell I bet you coudl do better with great stuff if there was a way to deploy it. I got some of the shit on my door handle 5 years ago and its still there. The finish is wearing out from using the door so much but not where the great stuff is.

Hmmmm..... Great Stuff canon...

[Anti Federalist]

Lol, "Police/Rescue"/ We're from the government, and we're here to help you!

Yah, Officer Friendly and his pals are coming to rescue the fuck out of all us, directly.

[kcchiefs6465]

I'm hoping, as in past struggles, as the regime dies and can't pay them, they, mostly, go home or wander off.
I'm hopeful that they took their oath seriously. Oathkeepers is a great cause. I would like to believe that they simply won't participate. History shows the likely probability that they will.

Not to mention a lot are already desensitized to violating peoples' rights and simply follow the leader. I don't know, it may be foolish of me, but I have a strong inclination to believe that it can't happen here, and that our soldiers and police officers would not find themselves on the wrong side. I'm sure many people in Germany thought the same thing, though.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Do you remember that guy in NH? that was in Oathkeepers?

The one that got labeled as a domestic terrorist because he belonged to the organization and got his kids 'napped by CPS because of it?

Remember that MIAC report that stated that people that believe in the Constitution (and RP supporters) are potential terrorists.

Remember that youTube of the DHS trainer stating that the founding fathers were the original terrorists in this country?

Remember that soldiers returning from the sandbox are being stripped of their 2A rights?

Remember the bill to impose mandatory national service on a co-ed basis for everyone between 18 and 25 as well as Oh-bomb-us saying we need a domestic security force equal to the US Military? Now why would we need that?

Remember Oh-Bomb-us's inoguration where he made sure the Marines didn't have any ammo in their guns?

Hmmm....

This is going to be a 3 pipe problem, eh Watson?

-t

[Anti Federalist]

Assholes better hope their fuel trucks have as much armor.

Tick tock...it's coming.

Bang or whimper...what's it gonna be, boy?

[Anti Federalist]

They're not really tanks

This is not an assault!

[kcchiefs6465]

Tangent, please do not remind me of history. :) Hope is a good thing. I find hope that a lot of the country is waking up and that we the people are the majority. I educate someone new almost daily. [and I hope they in turn, do the same] An economic collapse and/or slipping into a totalitarian state [I believe the economic collapse is what is going to do it] is not something anyone would want to live through. Even if you are prepared, you and your family will suffer. I hope that the brakes are put on this train before it crashes. [however unlikely that may be]

[tangent4ronpaul]

OK, so they bought 300 LENCO Bearcats and now 2,700 (well, 2,717) of this new tank... that's a bit over 60 tanks/APC's PER STATE!

For serving "high risk warrants", like on the ppl pictured in the No Hesitation Targets?

I think this has a lot to do with gun control/confiscation. But yes, economic collapse and food shortages too.

Amazing how the gvmt created these situations and now this is their solution. :rolleyes:

Seems like the first buy was to see if they could get away with it, and the second...

btw: I thought they bought more like 2.7 - 4 Billion rounds? The various .40 then the .357 and 9mm, then the .223 and .308, etc.

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

This gets worse...

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=71

Local police departments make up more than two-thirds of the 18,000 state and local law enforcement agencies in the United States. A local police department is a general purpose law enforcement agency, other than a sheriff’s office, that is operated by a unit of local government such as a town, city, township, or county. Tribal police are classified as local police in Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) data collections.

so they have only gifted 3,000 so far, looks like they will be buying another 15,000...

Well, make that 18,000...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheriffs_in_the_United_States

there were 3,085 sheriff's offices and departments as of the end of 2008.

So 21,000 of these things roaming the country (eventually)... that's 420 per state LULZ! Someone in DHS has a sense of humor. The rise of these paramilitary teams came from the WoD!

There is no record keeping or census of how many SWAT teams exist in the country.

http://www.ndsn.org/july97/swat.html

S.W.A.T. Team Use In U.S. Law Enforcement Dramatically Increases

(This is from 16 years ago)

There has been a dramatic rise in the number of Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) teams and a rapid expansion of their roles since the early 1980s, according to a new study by Peter Kraska, a professor of police studies at Eastern Kentucky University, and his colleague (Peter B. Kraska and Victor E. Kappeler, "Militarizing American Police: The Rise and Normalization of Paramilitary Units," Social Problems, February 1997, vol. 44, no. 1; "`Paramilitary Police Units' are more popular than ever," Law Enforcement News, May 15, 1997, vol. 23, no. 467, p. 9; William Booth, "Exploding Number of SWAT Teams Sets Off Alarms," Washington Post, June 17, 1997, p. A1).

Kraska said his research shows that the rise in SWAT teams and their activities closely follows the increase in resources used to fight the anti-drug effort. "The drug war created the atmosphere for this kind of pro-active policing," said Kraska.

Kraska surveyed 690 law enforcement agencies serving cities with populations of more than 50,000. According to his survey, 90% have active SWAT teams. In the early 1980s, only 60% of these cities had such units. The researchers found that even in smaller cities and rural communities two of every three police departments have SWAT teams, a trend that Kraska calls "militarizing" Mayberry.

In addition to an increase in the number of SWAT teams, their roles have expanded. Traditionally utilized for highly specialized action, such as barricaded suspects and hostage situations, the teams are increasingly engaged in traditional police work, especially work related to anti-drug efforts. The research shows that between 1990 and 1995 SWAT units were employed in their traditional roles for only a small number of occasions. Instead 75% of their activities were devoted to serving "high risk" warrants, such as "no-knock" warrants, mostly drug searches. "In SWAT units formed since 1980, their use has increased by 538 percent," said Kraska. He added that such units are now being deployed as full-time roaming patrols.

The SWAT teams wear camouflage, body armor and gas masks, and use weapons such as diversionary "flashbangs" (a diversionary device), submachine guns, explosives and chemical weapons. Kraska's survey shows that the SWAT teams receive training by active and retired military experts in special operations. Heckler and Koch, makers of the MP5 submachine gun used by the Navy Seals, also provide training to the SWAT teams. Some units also have helicopters and armored personnel carriers at their disposal.

Fresno Police Chief Ed Winchester said a highly armed, more violent class of criminals requires the use of SWAT teams. "The criminals aren't stupid," said Winchester. "They see eight guys surrounding them, all carrying submachine guns and wearing black fatigues, they don't want to get killed." Winchester said that because of the extreme response tactics used by SWAT teams, they actually fire fewer shots. "They overwhelm the suspects," he said. "They don't need to shoot."

"It's a very dangerous thing, when you're telling cops they're soldiers and there's an enemy out there," said Joseph McNamara, former chief of police in San Jose and Kansas City. McNamara, now a fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University, added, "Despite the conventional wisdom that community policing is sweeping the nation, the exact opposite is true." Kraska observes that SWAT teams attract a different kind of officer -- less a "social worker" and more a special operations soldier. "The SWAT teams love this stuff," says Kraska. "It's fun to fire these weapons. It's exciting to train. They use `simmunition' -- like the paint balls and play warrior games. This stuff is a rush."

-t

[TheTexan]

The writing is on the wall...

[Anti Federalist]

The writing is on the wall...

And like the words of the prophets, written on the subway walls, it will be ignored by most.

[RickyJ]

In a war situation these vehicles can be stolen and used against them.

[WM_in_MO]

Not much use if they have no fuel...

[jbauer]

Not much use if they have no fuel...


They run on disolved New Hampshire human remains.

[XNavyNuke]

Those are run-flat tires. It'll slow them down, it won't stop them. The rims have a solid interior core. The inside of the hubs are the weakest spot. I was Battalion Maintenance Officer for my unit in Iraq.

You're the perfect person to ask. Its hard to tell scale, but I would suspect the the center of gravity is maybe a meter and a half above the ground. That high of CG would seem to make them susceptible to sapping of a road grade where it collapse when ground pressure got to high, precipitating a rollover. Did you see any of that in the IRQ?

XNN

[acptulsa]

In a war situation these vehicles can be stolen and used against them.

Seems to me ID is an important point.

Paint them blue and mark them with a white '76'?

[Tod]

I think some way of rolling them would be a good challenge.


300 bearcats + 2700 of these = 1/county.

[tod evans]

Acid etching primer or just plain ol' red-oxide primer will ruin the glass...$30-50 gal.


Epoxy would be the best but it's 130-200 for 5 gallon. It would absolutely destory the vehicle, and that includes making the windshields no longer visible.


Hell I bet you coudl do better with great stuff if there was a way to deploy it. I got some of the shit on my door handle 5 years ago and its still there. The finish is wearing out from using the door so much but not where the great stuff is.

[Original_Intent]

Here's the thing - I think they WANT a response to give them an excuse for martial law, and yet with no response they just keep building up.

I guess the 300 million of us on the citizen's side will just need to build up faster...can we get our ammo orders placed ahead of theirs?

[tangent4ronpaul]

Here's the thing - I think they WANT a response to give them an excuse for martial law, and yet with no response they just keep building up.

I guess the 300 million of us on the citizen's side will just need to build up faster...can we get our ammo orders placed ahead of theirs?

You're funny! :p

-t

[Icymudpuppy]

Not to nitpick but the detonator still would go off. The cage is to offset the Munroe effect. It explodes the rocket 8 or so inches away so that the melted copper [conical liner] cools enough as to not penetrate the armor.

Have you ever seen or heard about a rocket getting stuck in the cage and not detonating? To me it just sounds like a one in a million chance. I honestly don't know though.

You are correct. I was simplifying because the technical details aren't really important.

[Icymudpuppy]

You're the perfect person to ask. Its hard to tell scale, but I would suspect the the center of gravity is maybe a meter and a half above the ground. That high of CG would seem to make them susceptible to sapping of a road grade where it collapse when ground pressure got to high, precipitating a rollover. Did you see any of that in the IRQ?

XNN

Yes. Rollovers are one of the biggest problems on all military heavy duty wheeled vehicles.

[Anti Federalist]

Yes. Rollovers are one of the biggest problems on all military heavy duty wheeled vehicles.

Tank Traps 101

[tangent4ronpaul]

There is a similar conversation going on at prison planet.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/obama-dhs-purchases-2700-light-armored-tanks-to-go-with-their-1-6-billion-bullet-stockpile.html


Most bridges in US can’t even support this thing. Even bridges on our interstates can’t support the weight of this vehicle. If it doesn’t have a bridge then it takes a lot to move this sucker. It becomes a paper weight after that.

I wonder how true this is? It was my understanding that the federal highway system was created specifically so it could handle armor, and lets face it, an Abrams weighs a lot more than this thing. Still, I bet a lot of places are impassable to something like this.

Certainly, the smaller country, single lane bridges would be an issue, ditto dirt roads.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs4irfk4utI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUvoaD6Vnkg

Decent discussion of tank traps from 2001 here too:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77891

-t

[Professor8000]

With the proper application of a shaped charge of high explosive and a cone shaped copper plate covering the charge, it is likely to do some heavy damage to the vehicle. Small arms are not likely to do much damage. If you have $18,000 lying around, you can get a Barrett M107A1 .50 Caliber Rifle, and if you manage to get any .50BMG AP rounds with the Tungsten penetrators, it is conceivable to penetrate the armor of that vehicle.

[P3ter_Griffin]

Its a rescue vehicle. It says so on its side.

They've come to rescue you from yourself!!

[kcchiefs6465]

I doubt bridges couldn't support this vehicle. I've seen a couple tanks on the bed of a truck and they didn't seem to be worried about it.

[tmg19103]

This is how Obama is going to create jobs by building roads.

These monstrosities will tear up any road they drive down.

[Anti Federalist]

///

[TomtheTinker]

I am not worried about being able to defeat these sorts of machines or anything these cowardly fools can put together in a time of war. IM worried about a slow acceptance of these machines during peace time.

[shane77m]

DHS MRAP purchase debunked?

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/page/294634_Factchecking-_Obama_DHS_Purcha


Today, conspiracy hounds of the internet were set alight by a rumor that President Obama has ordered “2,700 Light-Armored Tanks” for the Department of Homeland Security. Leading the charge was Jim Hoft who runs the blog Gateway Pundit:

Obama DHS Purchases 2,700 Light-Armored Tanks to Go With Their 1.6 Billion Bullet Stockpile

This is getting a little creepy.

According to one estimate, since last year the Department of Homeland Security has stockpiled more than 1.6 billion bullets, mainly .40 caliber and 9mm.

DHS also purchased 2,700 Mine Resistant Armor Protected Vehicles (MRAP).

Modern Survival Blog reported:

The Department of Homeland Security (through the U.S. Army Forces Command) recently retrofitted 2,717 of these ‘Mine Resistant Protected’ vehicles for service on the streets of the United States.
........

The facts.

An MRAP is not a light-armored tank but instead an “armored fighting vehicle” whose acronym stands for Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected. You will notice too that someone has edited the Wiki page including today’s hoax:

In September 2012, it was reported that the Department of Homeland Security (through the U.S. Army Forces Command) recently retrofitted 2,717 of these ‘Mine Resistant Protected’ vehicles for service on the streets of the United States. The Department of Homeland Security has used MRAPs in Rapid Response Teams in assisting people effected by natural disasters such as Hurricanes.

Now, let’s go back and look at the figure cited in today’s hoax or 2,717 MRAPs. It seems like a high figure already for DHS. Yes, DHS used armored vehicles, but at this time I have not located the exact amount and type of armored vehicles in their fleet. Where is that figure from is the important question and I able to locate a contract for 2,717 MRAP for the United States Navy:

Defense.gov: Contracts for Monday, January 09, 2012
No. 015-12
CONTRACT: NAVY
Navistar Defense, L.L.C., Warrenville, Ill., is being awarded an $879,923,195 firm-fixed-priced delivery order 0023 under previously awarded contract (M67854-07-D-5032) for the procurement of 2,717 units of rolling chassis; 10 engineering change proposals; and 25 contract data requirements lists, for MaxxPro Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles. Work will be performed in West Point, Miss., and is expected to be completed by the end of October 2013. Procurement funds in the amount of $879,923,195 will expire at the end of the current fiscal year. The original contract was competitively procured. The Marine Corps Systems Command, Quantico, Va., is the contracting activity.



More at the link.

[Barrex]

Yea...you are all tough guys...

If I had a choice I would rather drive that in danger than run on foot with a "sticky bomb".

[jdcole]

The gunports. Toss a grenade in. Considering that they have no turret gunner, they will have more difficulty in taking on an approaching attacker as long as they stay out of their sectors of fire.

[Anti Federalist]

////

[Carson]

It looks to me like the vulnerable spot on them is the economy.

The back door stealth socialism has all of the occupations, that once held up to the test of time, crippled. Then your going to try and run this program on top of it. And 1,600,000,000 rounds of ammunition to make people dance?

This isn't looking good.

I wonder if they have thought their cunning plan all the way through?

Actually they have unlimited funds to prepare for all possibilities. Ours.

Maybe some advisers will come in and help.

[thoughtomator]

Where are the weak spots?

When the people inside go to sleep at night.

When faced with overwhelming force, don't be a dumbass and try to take it head on. The tactical answer is to know where they are and counter where they are not.

Cops wouldn't stand a chance against popular civil resistance. Their families would be dead in no time, their houses burned, their food poisoned. They wouldn't be able to take a step without someone taking a potshot at them. Cops, not being cohesive and battle-tested military units, will fall into disarray quickly as morale drops under these conditions, many will desert, and many others will defect and join the resistance.

[presence]

The eyes, douse that bad boy with paint and it becomes a useless paper weight. I think
http://www.southernmdpaintball.com/assets/images/Paintball.jpg

[MRK]

They've come to rescue you from yourself!!

They're going to shoot some freedom into you.

[Fivezeroes]

Why does it seem that this government is preparing for war, with its own people? Why the fuck does any police department need an APC? These are bad times.

[presence]

Where are the weak spots?
http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/m_KYOH5XAQHTpDfsIR.xuA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/thesideshow/mexico-pot-cannon.jpg


‘Marijuana cannon’ (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/marijuana-cannon-pot-border-mexico-us-141040996.html)

[Michigan11]

This is something I would like to see brought up or answered by someone in congress. I'd also like to know why the entire country needs a camera at every intersection in the entire United States. And why did the DHS buy billions of rounds of ammo, all at once.

Has any of our reps or senators mentioned anything about these new armored vehicles?

[thoughtomator]

Returning to this topic because it disturbs me that anyone would even consider taking on a tank head on. That kind of brain-dead zerg strategy is for the OWS types - let them die doing it. If you want a chance to survive, don't be there when it happens.

If it comes to that, the places to strike are where they don't have resources, not where they do. Never take on a strong point directly; even if you manage to get superior strength, it's still an awful move. Think siege and attrition instead - you win by outlasting them not by defeating them on the field of battle. Just take a look at how all these insurgencies around the globe manage to survive even the most brutal, well-equipped assaults - they don't do it by taking over the occupiers' bases, they do it by constraining the occupiers to those bases, by making any move outside of them prohibitively dangerous.

If it had crossed your mind at any point to face one of these things in combat in a SHTF scenario, retrain yourself. Read Sun Tsu's Art of War, or at the very minimum ingrain the essential concepts into your thought processes. Also look up the Swiss Leaderless Resistance manual.

The way this kind of thing is resisted best is by NOT providing targets and not providing cooperation. Giving them an excuse to kill you is the worst move to make. Remember you won't be alone - if they're attacking regular civilians, everyone will be in the same boat, and everyone not on the occupation team is probably on your team. Be a good teammate, and stay alive so you can stay in the game. The best thing you can do may turn out to be to help someone else who can do something you can't. If you're dead, you won't be around to be a difference maker at the moment of truth.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

This is getting increasinly disturbing. First the 2 billion bullets, now they are purchasing thousands of tanks. All for "Domestic" activities. Wake up people!

Okay, I'm awake. Now what?

[TaftFan]

Civilians can also own tanks.

You have to de-weaponize them, however.

http://www.mortarinvestments.eu/

[tangent4ronpaul]

If it had crossed your mind at any point to face one of these things in combat in a SHTF scenario, retrain yourself. Read Sun Tsu's Art of War, or at the very minimum ingrain the essential concepts into your thought processes. Also look up the Swiss Leaderless Resistance manual.

Are you thinking of Total Resistance?

I'm not finding any trace that the title you mentioned exists.

-t

[idiom]

On the upside... its a good chance that half of them will defect.

Dunno what use we would have for 14000 mine resistant vehicles though.

[tod evans]

Dunno what use we would have for 14000 mine resistant vehicles though.

Pull the engines to power tractors and light trucks, the bodies would make great compost containers..

Remember government is the one always looking for a fight, most "normal" folks would rather work/eat and be happy....

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

The way this kind of thing is resisted best is by NOT providing targets and not providing cooperation. Giving them an excuse to kill you is the worst move to make. Remember you won't be alone - if they're attacking regular civilians, everyone will be in the same boat, and everyone not on the occupation team is probably on your team.


I'm pretty sure they'll only be attacking domestic terrorists. If you know one, or live with one, report them. If you're not a domestic terrorist, stay away from them and they will leave you unharmed. News at 6.

[tangent4ronpaul]

On the upside... its a good chance that half of them will defect.

Dunno what use we would have for 14000 mine resistant vehicles though.


Pull the engines to power tractors and light trucks, the bodies would make great compost containers..

Remember government is the one always looking for a fight, most "normal" folks would rather work/eat and be happy....

I was thinking a coastal reef.
Or land fill to bury gvmt bunkers w/ the control freaks inside...
Could also melt them down and make tools to make tools. Most of ours seem to have been shipped overseas due to "free trade" and "outsourcing" :(
But yes, pull the engines. Those could be useful.

-t

[libertyjam]

Pull the engines to power tractors and light trucks, the bodies would make great compost containers..

Remember government is the one always looking for a fight, most "normal" folks would rather work/eat and be happy....

I was thinking after pulling engine and axles, stick the body out in the woods, might make a cozy deer blind.

[presence]

What does sequestration mean daddy?

[Carson]

When the people inside go to sleep at night.

When faced with overwhelming force, don't be a dumbass and try to take it head on. The tactical answer is to know where they are and counter where they are not.

Cops wouldn't stand a chance against popular civil resistance. Their families would be dead in no time, their houses burned, their food poisoned. They wouldn't be able to take a step without someone taking a potshot at them. Cops, not being cohesive and battle-tested military units, will fall into disarray quickly as morale drops under these conditions, many will desert, and many others will defect and join the resistance.

I have thought about your post and still, like in the beginning, I find it distressing (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/distressing).

I think if they start dropping out it wouldn't be from weakness but from strength.

I think most people in general are in the dark concerning just how bought-off everyone is by those able to counterfeit the money supply. As the word spreads and the understanding of just what power can be derived from it people may take a look around them with new eyes. It should be the same with law enforcement. Most are very good people in general. We will need their strength to regain control.

VVVVV Embiggen the Super Dollar below if you don't have a basic understanding of the way a corrupt fiat can work against us.

[Carson]

Are you thinking of Total Resistance?

I'm not finding any trace that the title you mentioned exists.

-t

Looks to me like.

Found this.

It would behoove freedom loving Americans to familiarize yourselves with the concept and theories behind leaderless resistance. It would also be prudent to pick up a copy of the book entitled "Total Resistance," written by Swiss army Major Hans von Dach. It an official Swiss manual for resistance to enemy occupation of Switzerland. Many of the concepots found in that book will serve American patriots well in the times ahead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_Resistance_%28book%29

http://www.amazon.com/Total-Resistance-H-Von-Dach/dp/1607963043

Downloading even a modified version seems illegal to me but check out the first page of the book they've got copied here. It is some heavy duty stuff.

http://www.survivalmonkey.com/threads/total-resistance-swiss-army-guide-to-guerrilla-warfare-and-underground-operations-pdf.14237/

[Philhelm]

Where are the weak spots?

The crew.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

What does sequestration mean daddy?


Well, sequestration is an old fishing term, son. In order to get the fish to jumping, I'd get ole' grandpa to fartin' by telling him bunches of stupid jokes. For example, "How do you tell the difference between a drunk whore and a drunk horse if both are standing at a bar? Hee hee heee . . .! Anyhows, the horse is plural!"
Just when those fish expect grandpa to fart deliciously over and over, you make them suffer by sequestration by cutting off the jokes. Then to get them stupid dumb ass fish to jump straight into the boat, you tell your best joke that you've been saving for the very last:
"What do you do during a tornado? Anyhows, you go around and round! Hee hee heee . . .!"

[jmdrake]

DHS MRAP purchase debunked?

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/page/294634_Factchecking-_Obama_DHS_Purcha



More at the link.

In September 2012, it was reported that the Department of Homeland Security (through the U.S. Army Forces Command) recently retrofitted 2,717 of these ‘Mine Resistant Protected’ vehicles for service on the streets of the United States. The Department of Homeland Security has used MRAPs in Rapid Response Teams in assisting people effected by natural disasters such as Hurricanes.

Why do you need a "mine resistant" vehicle to respond to a hurricane?

[jmdrake]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_M8_hS0gqU8

[tod evans]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bmavxtq3P28

[Michael Landon]

I'm bumping this up because on Monday, our City Council (which I'm one of) will be debating whether or not to purchase one of these for our Police Department.

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/joannmuller/files/2012/08/300px-International_MaxxPro1.jpg

I intend on voting against it, but unfortunately, I'm fairly confident that it'll pass by a 4-1 vote.

- ML

[PaulConventionWV]

Not really. Get two trees to hold the launcher in place and you can make it a one man operation. Probably could rig together a portable launching device for one person as well. Really just need two metal stakes and you are good to go.

Then the issue becomes mobility. Both trees and metal stakes are not that easy to move around.

[Anti Federalist]

I'm bumping this up because on Monday, our City Council (which I'm one of) will be debating whether or not to purchase one of these for our Police Department.

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/joannmuller/files/2012/08/300px-International_MaxxPro1.jpg

I intend on voting against it, but unfortunately, I'm fairly confident that it'll pass by a 4-1 vote.

- ML

Pretty much SOP these days.

One lone voice of sanity in a sea of tyranny and stupidity.

Good for you though, keep fighting.

[revned]

Those things aren't tanks but somehow an AR-15 is a deadly "assault weapon"?:rolleyes:

[Michael Landon]

I just returned from my City Council meeting. I'm sad to say that the council voted in favor of requesting one of these from the DHS. It was quite a discussion between myself and the other councilors, ultimately it passed by a 3-2 vote. This is the first time I've been able to convince one of my colleagues to support me so I'm happy for that, the 4-1 votes were getting annoying.

- ML

[jmdrake]

I just returned from my City Council meeting. I'm sad to say that the council voted in favor of requesting one of these from the DHS. It was quite a discussion between myself and the other councilors, ultimately it passed by a 3-2 vote. This is the first time I've been able to convince one of my colleagues to support me so I'm happy for that, the 4-1 votes were getting annoying.

- ML

I'm curious. What arguments, if any, did the three moronic amigos use to explain why they needed a mine resistant APC?

[Michael Landon]

I'm curious. What arguments, if any, did the three moronic amigos use to explain why they needed a mine resistant APC?

Their main argument was that the city would be receiving them free of charge and after two years the city could sell it for a profit. The city administrator argued that we should never pass up something that's free that we can profit from in the future. My colleague who supported me asked "who would be able to buy it?" Of course there was no answer for that. I made as many compelling arguments as I could think of to persuade them to support me and, like always, I failed.

Someday, I'll post video of the exchange.

- ML

[jmdrake]

Their main argument was that the city would be receiving them free of charge and after two years the city could sell it for a profit. The city administrator argued that we should never pass up something that's free that we can profit from in the future. My colleague who supported me asked "who would be able to buy it?" Of course there was no answer for that. I made as many compelling arguments as I could think of to persuade them to support me and, like always, I failed.

Someday, I'll post video of the exchange.

- ML

"Free"? No it's not free. It will be paid for by their great grand children who will still be enslaved to the national debt. :( Smooth move by the feds. Pre-position the MRAPs across the nation by giving them away like Trojan horses.

[Michael Landon]

Here is a cliff notes version of tonight's debate.... I just posted this on my Facebook page.


At tonight's City Council meeting, we voted on filling out the paperwork to acquire one of these from the Department of Homeland Security. The resolution passed 3-2. I would like to thank Jim S. for standing with me in opposition to this resolution.

There is no logical or practical reason for the City to own a military vehicle of this caliber.

In the description of the vehicle it states that the vehicles are "designed from the ground up to reduce casualties and increase survivability for personnel subjected to mine explosions, Improvised Explosive Devices (IED) detonations, and Small Arms Fire." I asked when the last time a city police officer was hit with a mine explosion or an IED blast or even when the last time a police officer in town was involved in a small arms conflict. The answer was a long time, if ever.

I then asked if our city was currently involved in a war that would require the acquisition of what is basically a military tank on wheels and the answer to that was no. I stated that I walk around town because of my job and I know for a fact that city is NOT a battleground and that we are a peaceful town.

I stated that vehicles like this belong on the streets of Fallujah and not in the streets of our city.

I asked if the police are anticipating a conflict that would require one of these and one councilor said we can't predict the future and there may be a need in the future.

I made the point that the cost of the upkeep is extremely high and the taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for it.

I even asked for ONE example of our police department even needing this and there wasn't one. The only reason given to me for why we should get one is because the Department of Homeland Security is giving them away for free and in two years we could sell it for a profit. This is ridiculous.

- ML

[jmdrake]

So if the feds were giving away free nukes would the town take one?

[tod evans]

You're doing the right thing ML, it's a safe bet that more than one person in your town is questioning not only the decision but the motivation behind it due solely to your efforts!

Military hardware in the hands of local law enforcement sure rings of "Standing Armies" to me....

[talkingpointes]

Their main argument was that the city would be receiving them free of charge and after two years the city could sell it for a profit. The city administrator argued that we should never pass up something that's free that we can profit from in the future. My colleague who supported me asked "who would be able to buy it?" Of course there was no answer for that. I made as many compelling arguments as I could think of to persuade them to support me and, like always, I failed.

Someday, I'll post video of the exchange.

- ML

No offense but do you just assume human behavior can be changed by persuasion. Those people were basically describing future graft. They don't sound like they care about anything you might be talking about. What they were doing should be completely illegal. They sounded like they were going to do it if you were there or not. But it sounds like they used the "it will be profitable later" story. I remember the bailouts were supposed to make us rich later on too.

[EBounding]

Their main argument was that the city would be receiving them free of charge and after two years the city could sell it for a profit. The city administrator argued that we should never pass up something that's free that we can profit from in the future. My colleague who supported me asked "who would be able to buy it?" Of course there was no answer for that. I made as many compelling arguments as I could think of to persuade them to support me and, like always, I failed.

Someday, I'll post video of the exchange.

- ML

Thanks for all your doing. Could you propose a resolution so these can be locked away, never to be used until they're sold?


This is not a Tank, Citizen. :D Everything is fine, everything is fine, everything is fine...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/318088_475522485818591_1144412685_n.jpg

[Athan]

Awful nice of them to install ladders all around it.
Those aren't ladders. They are cages ment to protect against RPG attack. You know cuz us Americans can go to the local guns story and buy RPG rounds.
(Guess they figure it is going to get hot in America soon)

[TruckinMike]

Hell I bet you coudl do better with "great stuff" (http://greatstuff.dow.com/)if there was a way to deploy it. I got some of the shit on my door handle 5 years ago and its still there. The finish is wearing out from using the door so much but not where the great stuff is.
Urethane foam is a TWO part process. You can handily purchase the two components in liquid form. When mixed together you only have about 15 seconds before it starts foaming. --- but when it starts -- look out it goes quick --- and yes, it sticks terribly good:).

Solution: fire both solutions at the same time -- via balloon launcher.

Or better yet Use two pressurized vessels. Buy two five gallon portable air tanks fill 1/3 with liquid 2/3 air/nitrogen/etc. As the vehicle drives by a predetermined location spray on one of the chemicals in a fan like pattern, then seconds later spray on the second. The entire vehicle would have about a one inch thick layer of urethane now stuck to the exterior. Plugging air vents, radiators, hydraulic coolers, oil coolers etc.

[Pericles]

Thanks for all your doing. Could you propose a resolution so these can be locked away, never to be used until they're sold?


This is not a Tank, Citizen. :D Everything is fine, everything is fine, everything is fine...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/318088_475522485818591_1144412685_n.jpg
They have replaced the drive sprockets and track on that M577 to reduce road damage.

[EBounding]

They have replaced the drive sprockets and track on that M577 to reduce road damage.

They should have just left them on; the roads already look like a tank drove over them. :P

[brooks009]

Weakness = Just shoot out the tail lights and they will no longer be street legal.:D

[Brown Sapper]

I drove MRAPS back in Iraq. They used to have magnesium alloy wheels that would catch fire when hit, but I think they solved that problem. We used to carry around foam extinguishers to deal with that. I know some big weaknesses of them, but I wouldn't put it out on a public forum like this. We still have troops out there. If they start using them on us I make sure I'll tell you were they are.

[Barrex]

Ok. Contact me on al-qaeda007@gmail.com My Cousin took original email(asshole).

Things are really strange in US.

[Michael Landon]

I intend on bringing forth a motion that will effectively neuter their ability to use it, I just have to figure out a way to get two other councilors to vote with me on it.

- ML

[HOLLYWOOD]

This is not a Tank, Citizen. :D Everything is fine, everything is fine, everything is fine...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/318088_475522485818591_1144412685_n.jpg Oh that's going to look wonderful in this years 4th of July parade down Main st.

ML, What's the maintenance, insurance, training, and operating costs, for the next 2+ years, until those 3 council members want to unload it for their profit? Anyone consider those costs included?

[Michael Landon]

Oh that's going to look wonderful in this years 4th of July parade down Main st.

ML, What's the maintenance, insurance, training, and operating costs, for the next 2+ years, until those 3 council members want to unload it for their profit? Anyone consider those costs included?

I'm assuming it will cost the taxpayers quite a bit and I'll vote against every spending bill that funds those. I'll also remind the rest of the council that the only reason it passed was because it was "free" so we should continue to make sure it stays that way by refusing to use taxpayer money for something that the city doesn't need.

- ML

[J_White]

A mine resistant armored personnel carrier for serving warrants to illegal immigrants... are they serious? Do they have any idea how stupid that appears?

nope, it seems logical to the sheep.
"they are doing it to defend us from those brown people in caves"
or maybe they are preparing for the zombie apocalypse !

[J_White]

I drove MRAPS back in Iraq. They used to have magnesium alloy wheels that would catch fire when hit, but I think they solved that problem. We used to carry around foam extinguishers to deal with that. I know some big weaknesses of them, but I wouldn't put it out on a public forum like this. We still have troops out there. If they start using them on us I make sure I'll tell you were they are.

u will be next in line after Manning, if u did that !

[AngryCanadian]

Here is a cliff notes version of tonight's debate.... I just posted this on my Facebook page.


At tonight's City Council meeting, we voted on filling out the paperwork to acquire one of these from the Department of Homeland Security. The resolution passed 3-2. I would like to thank Jim S. for standing with me in opposition to this resolution.

There is no logical or practical reason for the City to own a military vehicle of this caliber.

In the description of the vehicle it states that the vehicles are "designed from the ground up to reduce casualties and increase survivability for personnel subjected to mine explosions, Improvised Explosive Devices (IED) detonations, and Small Arms Fire." I asked when the last time a city police officer was hit with a mine explosion or an IED blast or even when the last time a police officer in town was involved in a small arms conflict. The answer was a long time, if ever.

I then asked if our city was currently involved in a war that would require the acquisition of what is basically a military tank on wheels and the answer to that was no. I stated that I walk around town because of my job and I know for a fact that city is NOT a battleground and that we are a peaceful town.

I stated that vehicles like this belong on the streets of Fallujah and not in the streets of our city.

I asked if the police are anticipating a conflict that would require one of these and one councilor said we can't predict the future and there may be a need in the future.

I made the point that the cost of the upkeep is extremely high and the taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for it.

I even asked for ONE example of our police department even needing this and there wasn't one. The only reason given to me for why we should get one is because the Department of Homeland Security is giving them away for free and in two years we could sell it for a profit. This is ridiculous.

- ML


Any sense why would the DHS need these APCs? Zombie invasion fears? alien threat or other?

[WM_in_MO]

We should start a fund to buy some of those APC's, for search and rescue purposes...

[tod evans]

We should start a fund to buy some of those APC's, for search and rescue purposes...

If those rigs have to be within our borders I'd certainly feel better about civilians owning them than cops.

Donate 'em to private, rural hospitals and outfit 'em with gurneys and defibrillators instead of armor and gunports...