How a cop views Waco

[Anti Federalist]

More lies and bullshit than I care to de-construct in this one.

Have fun.

20 years after Waco: The precursors, the investigation, and the raid

http://www.policeone.com/federal-law-enforcement/articles/6132395-20-years-after-Waco-The-precursors-the-investigation-and-the-raid/

It has been 20 years since a nation watched the deadly drama slowly play out at Mt. Carmel, a “religious” compound 10 miles Northeast of Waco Texas.

The horrific ending was first prophesied and eventually orchestrated by the “prophet,” who held the power to peacefully end the confrontation at any time, but chose not to.

The man at the center of the tempest was born Vernon Howell, who in a quest to appear biblical, took up the name David Koresh.

Rise of Koresh

Koresh was a high school drop-out, who longed to be a rock star. His musical talents went undiscovered, so he became a preacher after realizing he possessed an extraordinary ability to memorize scripture and mesmerize followers as he manipulated the meaning of each verse he read to suit his own design.

Ostracized from a Seventh Day Adventist community after asking the pastor for his 15-year-old daughter’s hand in marriage, Koresh gravitated to the Branch Davidians at Mt. Carmel. The manner in which Koresh took control of the Davidians speaks to the uniqueness of this sect.

Koresh bedded the matriarchal septuagenarian leader of the sect, claiming he was sent from God to implant his seed. The liaison did not produce a child, but following her death Koresh positioned himself to lead the sect.

Koresh’s move was resisted by the son of the deceased matriarch, who Koresh claimed disinterred a corpse for Koresh to resurrect, to provide proof Koresh was sent by God. Eventually this conflict led to a gun fight, which both survived. Court room battles ensued and at the end of the legal wrangling, the son found himself in a mental facility and Koresh became the undisputed “spiritual leader” of the Branch Davidians.

From the outside looking in, the Davidians were a cult. From the inside looking out, they were a faith community preparing themselves for Koresh’s Apocalyptic vision of a death by inferno at the hands of the “Government Babylon.”

While preparing for the Apocalypse, Koresh practiced polygamy and had sex with many young women. The youngest was just 12.

The group raised money by selling some weapons legally, but they caught the attention of the ATF when they began altering semi-automatic AR-15’s to fully automatic. They also were suspected of manufacturing grenades.

The Investigation

The Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms conducted an eight-month investigation of the Davidians. Agents posed as students and rented a place across the road from Mt. Carmel. The agents showed an interest in joining the community, while gathering intelligence.

The investigation uncovered enough probable cause to justify an arrest warrant for David Koresh and a search warrant for the compound. This “Faith Community” was stock piling explosives, ammunition and military grade weapons, including automatic weapons.

Tensions built when a local newspaper, The Waco Tribune-Herald, ran a series on David Koresh called “The Sinful Messiah.” This documented not only the militaristic weaponry, but also the fact that Koresh was having sex with underage girls.

One troubling headline read, “The Law Watches But Does Little.”

The Raid

After a great deal of planning and training, at 0500 hours on February 28, 1993 ATF staged cattle trucks for transport of 76 agents in multiple teams to conduct a dynamic entry of the compound. The plan was to:

1.) Protect the children
2.) Discourage, or overcome any resistance
3.) Secure the weapons
4.) Secure the facility to facilitate a warrant search



Sunday was chosen for the raid, because according to intelligence, Koresh secured all weapons on Sundays.

Before the ATF moved, one local photographer attempting to cover the raid became lost. He asked postman David Jones for directions to Mt. Carmel. During this contact, the photographer warned the postman of the “secret” raid. Jones gave the photographer directions then rushed to Mt. Carmel, to advise his brother-in-law, David Koresh, of the imminent incursion.

After an under-cover-agent witnessed the preparations, that agent hurriedly slipped away from Mt. Carmel to inform the BATF Commander the element of surprise was lost. In spite of this critical intelligence, the fateful decision was made to proceed with the dynamic entry.

As agents announced their presence with bull horns, Koresh appeared at the door, recited scripture and slammed the metal door shut. Koresh deliberately dismissed this opportunity to submit to the lawful search warrant precipitating what was to follow.

Shortly after the door slammed shut, a gun battle erupted. Because the media was present, some of the most incredible footage of a police gunfight ever recorded in history was brought into living-rooms nationwide.

Agents on a roof, attempting to secure the armory by entering through a window, took automatic weapons fire through the wall. One agent was wounded flattened out and then slid quickly down a ladder to escape.

Two agents and two Davidians were killed, during the unsuccessful attempt to secure the Davidian’s Armory. Another agent was killed by a pre-positioned sniper, while providing covering fire for the agents withdrawing from the armory.

Out-gunned agents were seen firing hand guns toward unseen adversaries, who were maintaining a deadly barrage with high powered scoped rifles and automatic weapons.

After a sustained 45-minute gunfight, a Lieutenant from the McLennan County Sheriff’s Department began to negotiate a truce. A cease fire was declared two hours after the fight had begun. The ATF, running low on ammunition, were allowed to gather their killed and wounded and pull back.

The solemn retreat included 20 agents who had been shot in the violent encounter. Four agents who made the ultimate sacrifice were Steve Willis, Robert Williams, Todd McKeehan, and Conway LeBleu.

The ATF locked down the perimeter. Later that evening, three armed Davidians attempted to break through that perimeter to enter Mt. Carmel. This attempted breach triggered a gun fight, during which one Davidian escaped, one was wounded, while a third was shot and killed.

Finally, after the longest day in BATF history, night had fallen, quiet had returned, and the siege had begun...

[Petar]

it's like drinking from a fire-hose of bullshit...

[coastie]

Jesus, that is quite the work of fiction there, that is not even remotely close to what really happened.

[coastie]

it's like drinking from a fire-hose of bullshit...

...or just standing behind the bull, mouth opened.

[aGameOfThrones]

http://i.qkme.me/3ojw3t.jpg

[kcchiefs6465]

Before reading I am going to just post that this is ridiculous bullshit, and pissed me off.

Let's see how close I was.

[georgiaboy]

I watched this recent session on C-SPAN. Admittedly I'm no expert on the events of that day, but for those interested, I suppose this is worth a watch.

Generally it's supportive of the ATF's efforts, but one of the panelists, a journalist who wrote a book about the whole affair, is definitely not a fan and lets everyone know it.

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/310880-1

[Mani]

There is another Post by Bob Barr about this event. ummmm..


Were there TWO Waco incidents? Because side by side, these sound incredibly different.


More lies and bullshit than I care to de-construct in this one.

Have fun.

20 years after Waco: The precursors, the investigation, and the raid

http://www.policeone.com/federal-law-enforcement/articles/6132395-20-years-after-Waco-The-precursors-the-investigation-and-the-raid/

It has been 20 years since a nation watched the deadly drama slowly play out at Mt. Carmel, a “religious” compound 10 miles Northeast of Waco Texas.

The horrific ending was first prophesied and eventually orchestrated by the “prophet,” who held the power to peacefully end the confrontation at any time, but chose not to.

The man at the center of the tempest was born Vernon Howell, who in a quest to appear biblical, took up the name David Koresh.

Rise of Koresh

Koresh was a high school drop-out, who longed to be a rock star. His musical talents went undiscovered, so he became a preacher after realizing he possessed an extraordinary ability to memorize scripture and mesmerize followers as he manipulated the meaning of each verse he read to suit his own design.

Ostracized from a Seventh Day Adventist community after asking the pastor for his 15-year-old daughter’s hand in marriage, Koresh gravitated to the Branch Davidians at Mt. Carmel. The manner in which Koresh took control of the Davidians speaks to the uniqueness of this sect.

Koresh bedded the matriarchal septuagenarian leader of the sect, claiming he was sent from God to implant his seed. The liaison did not produce a child, but following her death Koresh positioned himself to lead the sect.

Koresh’s move was resisted by the son of the deceased matriarch, who Koresh claimed disinterred a corpse for Koresh to resurrect, to provide proof Koresh was sent by God. Eventually this conflict led to a gun fight, which both survived. Court room battles ensued and at the end of the legal wrangling, the son found himself in a mental facility and Koresh became the undisputed “spiritual leader” of the Branch Davidians.

From the outside looking in, the Davidians were a cult. From the inside looking out, they were a faith community preparing themselves for Koresh’s Apocalyptic vision of a death by inferno at the hands of the “Government Babylon.”

While preparing for the Apocalypse, Koresh practiced polygamy and had sex with many young women. The youngest was just 12.

The group raised money by selling some weapons legally, but they caught the attention of the ATF when they began altering semi-automatic AR-15’s to fully automatic. They also were suspected of manufacturing grenades.

The Investigation

The Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms conducted an eight-month investigation of the Davidians. Agents posed as students and rented a place across the road from Mt. Carmel. The agents showed an interest in joining the community, while gathering intelligence.

The investigation uncovered enough probable cause to justify an arrest warrant for David Koresh and a search warrant for the compound. This “Faith Community” was stock piling explosives, ammunition and military grade weapons, including automatic weapons.

Tensions built when a local newspaper, The Waco Tribune-Herald, ran a series on David Koresh called “The Sinful Messiah.” This documented not only the militaristic weaponry, but also the fact that Koresh was having sex with underage girls.

One troubling headline read, “The Law Watches But Does Little.”

The Raid

After a great deal of planning and training, at 0500 hours on February 28, 1993 ATF staged cattle trucks for transport of 76 agents in multiple teams to conduct a dynamic entry of the compound. The plan was to:

1.) Protect the children
2.) Discourage, or overcome any resistance
3.) Secure the weapons
4.) Secure the facility to facilitate a warrant search



Sunday was chosen for the raid, because according to intelligence, Koresh secured all weapons on Sundays.

Before the ATF moved, one local photographer attempting to cover the raid became lost. He asked postman David Jones for directions to Mt. Carmel. During this contact, the photographer warned the postman of the “secret” raid. Jones gave the photographer directions then rushed to Mt. Carmel, to advise his brother-in-law, David Koresh, of the imminent incursion.

After an under-cover-agent witnessed the preparations, that agent hurriedly slipped away from Mt. Carmel to inform the BATF Commander the element of surprise was lost. In spite of this critical intelligence, the fateful decision was made to proceed with the dynamic entry.

As agents announced their presence with bull horns, Koresh appeared at the door, recited scripture and slammed the metal door shut. Koresh deliberately dismissed this opportunity to submit to the lawful search warrant precipitating what was to follow.

Shortly after the door slammed shut, a gun battle erupted. Because the media was present, some of the most incredible footage of a police gunfight ever recorded in history was brought into living-rooms nationwide.

Agents on a roof, attempting to secure the armory by entering through a window, took automatic weapons fire through the wall. One agent was wounded flattened out and then slid quickly down a ladder to escape.

Two agents and two Davidians were killed, during the unsuccessful attempt to secure the Davidian’s Armory. Another agent was killed by a pre-positioned sniper, while providing covering fire for the agents withdrawing from the armory.

Out-gunned agents were seen firing hand guns toward unseen adversaries, who were maintaining a deadly barrage with high powered scoped rifles and automatic weapons.

After a sustained 45-minute gunfight, a Lieutenant from the McLennan County Sheriff’s Department began to negotiate a truce. A cease fire was declared two hours after the fight had begun. The ATF, running low on ammunition, were allowed to gather their killed and wounded and pull back.

The solemn retreat included 20 agents who had been shot in the violent encounter. Four agents who made the ultimate sacrifice were Steve Willis, Robert Williams, Todd McKeehan, and Conway LeBleu.

The ATF locked down the perimeter. Later that evening, three armed Davidians attempted to break through that perimeter to enter Mt. Carmel. This attempted breach triggered a gun fight, during which one Davidian escaped, one was wounded, while a third was shot and killed.

Finally, after the longest day in BATF history, night had fallen, quiet had returned, and the siege had begun...

[noneedtoaggress]

Wow...

You know it's bad when the commenters at policeone are calling you out on your bullshit article. :eek:


A couple of points. Though David Koresh was clearly an unsavory, possibly criminal character, and shamelessly manipulated people, and could have ended the siege, as noted above, several other statements are factually incorrect. No fully auto weapons or evidence of same was found at the compound, according to the congressional investigation. The fact that at budgeting time, ATF supervisors invited the media to this raid to witness the ATF's "important" work....then went ahead with an assault when they KNEW they were compromised....for a raid that had dubious probable cause to begin with..speaks VOLUMES about the priorities of the management personnel involved in this disaster. This in NO WAY excuses the conduct of Koresh or the other adults present, nor is it meant to reflect on the brave ATF SA's who participated in the raid. But if we are professionals, we must be held to professional standards This raid was so large they had to cobble together members of Special Operations teams from all over the country...who had not trained together, much less participated in raids together. This incident was a disaster for professional law enforcement. That lesson must also not be forgotten.

[Anti Federalist]

Lest We Forget – Lessons From The 1993 Waco Tragedy

http://townhall.com/columnists/bobbarr/2013/02/27/lest-we-forget--lessons-from-the-1993-waco-tragedy-n1521332/page/full/

Twenty years ago, on February 28th 1993, the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) launched an assault on the Branch Davidian religious compound just outside Waco, Texas. The resulting siege ended more than seven weeks later, on April 19, but not before claiming the lives of 80 men, women and children -- many burned to death in the final inferno that destroyed the compound.

Even today, videos of the burning buildings remain vivid reminders of an assault gone horribly wrong, from start to finish; and, lessons from what has become known as the “Waco Tragedy” should be borne in mind by all Americans lest a similar tragedy occur in the future.

Although I was not yet a formal candidate for the United States House of Representatives in February 1993, two years later in early 1995, I was a member of the House Judiciary subcommittee that led a series of lengthy hearings into the Waco tragedy. In the immediate aftermath of the 1993 Waco siege, then-President Bill Clinton, through Attorney General Janet Reno, accepted “responsibility” for the results of the raid on the Branch Davidian compound. Unfortunately, the difficulty we in the Congress encountered in obtaining answers from Administration witnesses to our many questions regarding its execution of the operation showed the true hollowness of this acceptance of “responsibility.”

Evidence clearly established that Branch Davidian leader David Koresh (who died in the final conflagration) was a charismatic figure who took advantage of the many devoted followers at the Waco compound for his personal gratification. However, of primary concern to many of us in the Congress was the justification for, and actual conduct of, the government’s assault and lengthy siege of the religious compound.

The government claimed it possessed pre-raid evidence that Koresh and his followers were stockpiling illegal, automatic firearms, and was manufacturing illicit drugs within the compound’s several buildings.

Ultimately, no evidence was ever revealed establishing that any automatic firearms were located, or being produced, at the Waco compound although this provided the legal basis for the ATF investigation and initial raid.

Similarly, despite government assertions that Koresh and his followers were manufacturing illicit drugs within the compound, no evidence was ever found to support such allegations. As was revealed during the 1995 congressional hearings, assertions that the Branch Davidians were engaged in the manufacture of methamphetamine and possibly other controlled substances provided justification for the FBI to request and obtain assistance from the U.S. military; assistance that would have been prohibited under the Posse Comitatus law without such evidence.

The manner in which the government used the flimsiest of evidence to justify, and then broaden, the assault on the Davidian compound, and the overall manner in which a massive assault was carried out against a religious group -- albeit not a mainstream one -- led many Americans to lose faith in, or at least question, their confidence in federal government power.

This always should be of concern to citizens and government officials alike. Actions tending to undermine that relationship should be addressed openly and vigorously by both groups, but especially by the government, which depends on the confidence of the People for its proper functioning, and ultimately for the success of its programs.


^^^^^^^

http://i.imgur.com/TDwk5NI.gif

The lack of concern for the human cost of the Waco Siege reflected in the refusal by the Clinton Administration ultimately to account for the conduct of the operation, however, is perhaps the darkest and most tragic aftermath of the siege. The government used armored tank-like vehicles to break down walls of the building in which dozens of men, women, children and infants were known to be huddling, then injected massive quantities of tear gas (known to be highly flammable) into that structure. Witnessing the not-unexpected resulting deadly fire seared in the minds of many good, law-abiding Americans the true human cost of unfettered and unaccountable government power.

On this 20th anniversary of the Waco Siege, and in memory of all who died in the tragedy, including four ATF agents, we all should pause and pray that never again might we witness power run so tragically amuck.

[Mani]

Yes that's the Bob Barr article I read earlier....Sounds absolutely NOTHING like the Cop's version.

The Cop's version sounds like a few brave cops with only a couple hand guns, were over-matched by an impenetrable fortressed evil dictator reigning hellfire all over them. While they just wanted to save the children.... (Isn't this like a cliche war/spy/cop/ action movie plot? Is that the crazy pills they take in order to justify what they do?)


Can they really be talking about the same fucking thing?

[Anti Federalist]

Yes, yes they are.

And always keep this in mind, regardless of who shot first at the front door of the church, the ATF drew first blood.

On the way up to the building they killed, about 20 or so, penned up farm animals and dogs that were on the property.


Yes that's the Bob Barr article I read earlier....Sounds absolutely NOTHING like the Cop's version.

The Cop's version sounds like a few brave cops with only a couple hand guns, were over-matched by an impenetrable fortressed evil dictator reigning hellfire all over them. While they just wanted to save the children.... (Isn't this like a cliche war/spy/cop/ action movie plot? Is that the crazy pills they take in order to justify what they do?)


Can they really be talking about the same fucking thing?

[AGRP]

Every mercenary has an excuse.

[COpatriot]

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRYZr3tvP7CK5DlM2I0fCGccoyHPB9es RhK94F-cyNS1YoXM50H

[surf]

i'd recommend the documentary for those that haven't seen it.

[kcchiefs6465]

i'd recommend the documentary for those that haven't seen it.
Which one? Link?

Plus rep/

[tod evans]

No charges filed against any cops...:mad:

"Just-Us" was served in spades...

[Occam's Banana]

Which one? Link?

Plus rep/

Probably this one:

Waco: The Rules of Engagement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCfzLFIT5QM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCfzLFIT5QM

[jclay2]

Probably this one:

Waco: The Rules of Engagement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCfzLFIT5QM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCfzLFIT5QM

Anyone who has not watched this movie, please invest the time and watch this. It is very well done and puts the whole "FBI never shot one bullet" to shame.

As I was not even 2 years old when this happened, I got curious and thought it would be worth watching (especially after the "burn this meffing house down" chris dorner incident).

[Anti Federalist]

Watch the video.

The whole thing.

It is well worth the time.

[coastie]

Watch the video.

The whole thing.

It is well worth the time.

This one was made two years after Rules of Engagement, and is even better, IMO.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCblw0_ls7M

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?405967-20-Year-Anniversery-of-Waco-The-Rules-of-Engagement

[Anti Federalist]

Just so long as both videos have the FLIR footage showing the FedCoats opening fire with automatic weapons on the people trying to escape the fire.

[coastie]

Just so long as both videos have the FLIR footage showing the FedCoats opening fire with automatic weapons on the people trying to escape the fire.

They do. The newer one has even more info. Check it out.

[CCTelander]

Little Davidian child: "A...are you gonna come in and kill me?"

Pretty much says it all. Chokes me up every time I hear it.

[jcannon98188]

They claimed they had automatic weapons and drugs. Funny, we used similar failed "evidence" to invade Iraq. Maybe testing the public outrage over falsified evidence?

[Anti Federalist]

Little Davidian child: "A...are you gonna come in and kill me?"

Pretty much says it all. Chokes me up every time I hear it.

"This is not an assault! This is not an assault!" - Government bullhorns proclaimed that, as they assaulted with tanks, grenades, liquid methylene chloride, CS and automatic weapons fire.

[Anti Federalist]

They do. The newer one has even more info. Check it out.

Oh I have, it's just been years, and wanted to make that point.

The FLIR documentary they did was good as well, showed that the flashes you saw, could not have been caused by anything other than government small arms fire.

[coastie]

Oh I have, it's just been years, and wanted to make that point.

The FLIR documentary they did was good as well, showed that the flashes you saw, could not have been caused by anything other than government small arms fire.


Just finished it...and holy shit, even Hillary Fucking Clinton was involved in this!!!

[Anti Federalist]

Also keep in mind:

All the survivors were charged with murder of government agents.

All the survivors were acquitted of those charges.

[fisharmor]

More lies and bullshit than I care to de-construct in this one.

I'll take a stab at it.



It has been 20 years since a nation watched the deadly drama slowly play out at Mt. Carmel, a "religious" compound 10 miles Northeast of Waco Texas.

The horrific ending was first prophesied and eventually orchestrated by the "prophet," who held the power to peacefully end the confrontation at any time, but chose not to, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

The man at the center of the tempest was born Vernon Howell, who in a quest to appear biblical, took up the name David Koresh, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

Rise of Koresh

Koresh was a high school drop-out, who longed to be a rock star. His musical talents went undiscovered, so he became a preacher after realizing he possessed an extraordinary ability to memorize scripture and mesmerize followers as he manipulated the meaning of each verse he read to suit his own design, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

Ostracized from a Seventh Day Adventist community after asking the pastor for his 15-year-old daughter.s hand in marriage, Koresh gravitated to the Branch Davidians at Mt. Carmel. The manner in which Koresh took control of the Davidians speaks to the uniqueness of this sect, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

Koresh bedded the matriarchal septuagenarian leader of the sect, claiming he was sent from God to implant his seed. The liaison did not produce a child, but following her death Koresh positioned himself to lead the sect, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

Koresh.s move was resisted by the son of the deceased matriarch, who Koresh claimed disinterred a corpse for Koresh to resurrect, to provide proof Koresh was sent by God. Eventually this conflict led to a gun fight, which both survived. Court room battles ensued and at the end of the legal wrangling, the son found himself in a mental facility and Koresh became the undisputed "spiritual leader" of the Branch Davidians, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

From the outside looking in, the Davidians were a cult. From the inside looking out, they were a faith community preparing themselves for Koresh's Apocalyptic vision of a death by inferno at the hands of the "Government Babylon", so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

While preparing for the Apocalypse, Koresh practiced polygamy and had sex with many young women. The youngest was just 12, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

The group raised money by selling some weapons legally, but they caught the attention of the ATF when they began altering semi-automatic AR-15.s to fully automatic. They also were suspected of manufacturing grenades, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

The Investigation

The Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms conducted an eight-month investigation of the Davidians. Agents posed as students and rented a place across the road from Mt. Carmel. The agents showed an interest in joining the community, while gathering intelligence, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

The investigation uncovered enough probable cause to justify an arrest warrant for David Koresh and a search warrant for the compound. This "Faith Community" was stock piling explosives, ammunition and military grade weapons, including automatic weapons, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

Tensions built when a local newspaper, The Waco Tribune-Herald, ran a series on David Koresh called "The Sinful Messiah." This documented not only the militaristic weaponry, but also the fact that Koresh was having sex with underage girls, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

One troubling headline read, "The Law Watches But Does Little", so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

The Raid

After a great deal of planning and training, at 0500 hours on February 28, 1993 ATF staged cattle trucks for transport of 76 agents in multiple teams to conduct a dynamic entry of the compound. The plan was to:

1.) Protect the children
2.) Discourage, or overcome any resistance
3.) Secure the weapons
4.) Secure the facility to facilitate a warrant search



Sunday was chosen for the raid, because according to intelligence, Koresh secured all weapons on Sundays, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

Before the ATF moved, one local photographer attempting to cover the raid became lost. He asked postman David Jones for directions to Mt. Carmel. During this contact, the photographer warned the postman of the "secret" raid. Jones gave the photographer directions then rushed to Mt. Carmel, to advise his brother-in-law, David Koresh, of the imminent incursion, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

After an under-cover-agent witnessed the preparations, that agent hurriedly slipped away from Mt. Carmel to inform the BATF Commander the element of surprise was lost. In spite of this critical intelligence, the fateful decision was made to proceed with the dynamic entry, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

As agents announced their presence with bull horns, Koresh appeared at the door, recited scripture and slammed the metal door shut. Koresh deliberately dismissed this opportunity to submit to the lawful search warrant precipitating what was to follow, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

Shortly after the door slammed shut, a gun battle erupted. Because the media was present, some of the most incredible footage of a police gunfight ever recorded in history was brought into living-rooms nationwide, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

Agents on a roof, attempting to secure the armory by entering through a window, took automatic weapons fire through the wall. One agent was wounded flattened out and then slid quickly down a ladder to escape, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

Two agents and two Davidians were killed, during the unsuccessful attempt to secure the Davidian.s Armory. Another agent was killed by a pre-positioned sniper, while providing covering fire for the agents withdrawing from the armory, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

Out-gunned agents were seen firing hand guns toward unseen adversaries, who were maintaining a deadly barrage with high powered scoped rifles and automatic weapons, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

After a sustained 45-minute gunfight, a Lieutenant from the McLennan County Sheriff.s Department began to negotiate a truce. A cease fire was declared two hours after the fight had begun. The ATF, running low on ammunition, were allowed to gather their killed and wounded and pull back, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

The solemn retreat included 20 agents who had been shot in the violent encounter. Four agents who made the ultimate sacrifice were Steve Willis, Robert Williams, Todd McKeehan, and Conway LeBleu, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

The ATF locked down the perimeter. Later that evening, three armed Davidians attempted to break through that perimeter to enter Mt. Carmel. This attempted breach triggered a gun fight, during which one Davidian escaped, one was wounded, while a third was shot and killed, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

Finally, after the longest day in BATF history, night had fallen, quiet had returned, and the siege had begun... so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

[Anti Federalist]

Just finished it...and holy shit, even Hillary Fucking Clinton was involved in this!!!

That's why it's called a ruling class.

Just like the old regal bloodlines, these people now never go away, decade after decade, as long as the fetal grindings and ram's blood keeps them alive, they are there, neck deep in the shit, fucking us up and taking our liberty away.

[Anti Federalist]

You forgot:


The plan was to:

1.) Protect the children
2.) Discourage, or overcome any resistance
3.) Secure the weapons
4.) Secure the facility to facilitate a warrant search
5.) Gas the children, burn everyone alive, and bulldoze the evidence.



I'll take a stab at it.



It has been 20 years since a nation watched the deadly drama slowly play out at Mt. Carmel, a "religious" compound 10 miles Northeast of Waco Texas.

The horrific ending was first prophesied and eventually orchestrated by the "prophet," who held the power to peacefully end the confrontation at any time, but chose not to, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

The man at the center of the tempest was born Vernon Howell, who in a quest to appear biblical, took up the name David Koresh, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

Rise of Koresh

Koresh was a high school drop-out, who longed to be a rock star. His musical talents went undiscovered, so he became a preacher after realizing he possessed an extraordinary ability to memorize scripture and mesmerize followers as he manipulated the meaning of each verse he read to suit his own design, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

Ostracized from a Seventh Day Adventist community after asking the pastor for his 15-year-old daughter.s hand in marriage, Koresh gravitated to the Branch Davidians at Mt. Carmel. The manner in which Koresh took control of the Davidians speaks to the uniqueness of this sect, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

Koresh bedded the matriarchal septuagenarian leader of the sect, claiming he was sent from God to implant his seed. The liaison did not produce a child, but following her death Koresh positioned himself to lead the sect, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

Koresh.s move was resisted by the son of the deceased matriarch, who Koresh claimed disinterred a corpse for Koresh to resurrect, to provide proof Koresh was sent by God. Eventually this conflict led to a gun fight, which both survived. Court room battles ensued and at the end of the legal wrangling, the son found himself in a mental facility and Koresh became the undisputed "spiritual leader" of the Branch Davidians, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

From the outside looking in, the Davidians were a cult. From the inside looking out, they were a faith community preparing themselves for Koresh's Apocalyptic vision of a death by inferno at the hands of the "Government Babylon", so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

While preparing for the Apocalypse, Koresh practiced polygamy and had sex with many young women. The youngest was just 12, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

The group raised money by selling some weapons legally, but they caught the attention of the ATF when they began altering semi-automatic AR-15.s to fully automatic. They also were suspected of manufacturing grenades, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

The Investigation

The Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms conducted an eight-month investigation of the Davidians. Agents posed as students and rented a place across the road from Mt. Carmel. The agents showed an interest in joining the community, while gathering intelligence, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

The investigation uncovered enough probable cause to justify an arrest warrant for David Koresh and a search warrant for the compound. This "Faith Community" was stock piling explosives, ammunition and military grade weapons, including automatic weapons, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

Tensions built when a local newspaper, The Waco Tribune-Herald, ran a series on David Koresh called "The Sinful Messiah." This documented not only the militaristic weaponry, but also the fact that Koresh was having sex with underage girls, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

One troubling headline read, "The Law Watches But Does Little", so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

The Raid

After a great deal of planning and training, at 0500 hours on February 28, 1993 ATF staged cattle trucks for transport of 76 agents in multiple teams to conduct a dynamic entry of the compound. The plan was to:

1.) Protect the children
2.) Discourage, or overcome any resistance
3.) Secure the weapons
4.) Secure the facility to facilitate a warrant search



Sunday was chosen for the raid, because according to intelligence, Koresh secured all weapons on Sundays, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

Before the ATF moved, one local photographer attempting to cover the raid became lost. He asked postman David Jones for directions to Mt. Carmel. During this contact, the photographer warned the postman of the "secret" raid. Jones gave the photographer directions then rushed to Mt. Carmel, to advise his brother-in-law, David Koresh, of the imminent incursion, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

After an under-cover-agent witnessed the preparations, that agent hurriedly slipped away from Mt. Carmel to inform the BATF Commander the element of surprise was lost. In spite of this critical intelligence, the fateful decision was made to proceed with the dynamic entry, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

As agents announced their presence with bull horns, Koresh appeared at the door, recited scripture and slammed the metal door shut. Koresh deliberately dismissed this opportunity to submit to the lawful search warrant precipitating what was to follow, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

Shortly after the door slammed shut, a gun battle erupted. Because the media was present, some of the most incredible footage of a police gunfight ever recorded in history was brought into living-rooms nationwide, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

Agents on a roof, attempting to secure the armory by entering through a window, took automatic weapons fire through the wall. One agent was wounded flattened out and then slid quickly down a ladder to escape, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

Two agents and two Davidians were killed, during the unsuccessful attempt to secure the Davidian.s Armory. Another agent was killed by a pre-positioned sniper, while providing covering fire for the agents withdrawing from the armory, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

Out-gunned agents were seen firing hand guns toward unseen adversaries, who were maintaining a deadly barrage with high powered scoped rifles and automatic weapons, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

After a sustained 45-minute gunfight, a Lieutenant from the McLennan County Sheriff.s Department began to negotiate a truce. A cease fire was declared two hours after the fight had begun. The ATF, running low on ammunition, were allowed to gather their killed and wounded and pull back, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

The solemn retreat included 20 agents who had been shot in the violent encounter. Four agents who made the ultimate sacrifice were Steve Willis, Robert Williams, Todd McKeehan, and Conway LeBleu, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

The ATF locked down the perimeter. Later that evening, three armed Davidians attempted to break through that perimeter to enter Mt. Carmel. This attempted breach triggered a gun fight, during which one Davidian escaped, one was wounded, while a third was shot and killed, so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

Finally, after the longest day in BATF history, night had fallen, quiet had returned, and the siege had begun... so we gassed children, burned everyone alive, and bulldozed the evidence.

[CCTelander]

Also keep in mind:

All the survivors were charged with murder of government agents.

All the survivors were acquitted of those charges.


Yep. The jury did find them guilty of a minor weapons charge in error because it was something like possession of a firearm during the commission of a crime. However, instead of declaring a mistrial, as was proper under the circumstances, the judge proceeded to issue a directed verdict of guilty on charges that the jury had acquited on, and then issue the maximum sentence enhancements allowable. As a result the survivors are now rotting in prison for 30-40 years each.

American "just us" at work.

[Anti Federalist]

Yep. The jury did find them guilty of a minor weapons charge in error because it was something like possession of a firearm during the commission of a crime. However, instead of declaring a mistrial, as was proper under the circumstances, the judge proceeded to issue a directed verdict of guilty on charges that the jury had acquited on, and then issue the maximum sentence enhancements allowable. As a result the survivors are now rotting in prison for 30-40 years each.

American "just us" at work.

Can't have juries doing their job now, can we Comrade?

[CCTelander]

Can't have juries doing their job now, can we Comrade?


Nyet!

[satchelmcqueen]

and the government agents gassed the compound and the muscles of those who breathed it in contracted backwards breaking bones as the victims were still alive...INCLUDING KIDS!

[coastie]

and the government agents gassed the compound and the muscles of those who breathed it in contracted backwards breaking bones as the victims were still alive...INCLUDING KIDS!


Tear gas doesn't do that to you...

[pcosmar]

David Koresh was an example,,

There was a Growing Patriot movement across the country at the time,,
David Koresh was an example. Ruby Ridge was another.
You can not be allowed to live free. You can not just say no. You can you can not resist.. and people will cheer your demise because the media will make a bunch of unfounded claims about how criminal you are for wanting to be left alone.

Then thy blew up OKC,,and blamed it on the Patriot Movement.

Shit has been runaway down hill ever since.

[LibForestPaul]

David Koresh was an example,,

There was a Growing Patriot movement across the country at the time,,
David Koresh was an example. Ruby Ridge was another.
You can not be allowed to live free. You can not just say no. You can you can not resist.. and people will cheer your demise because the media will make a bunch of unfounded claims about how criminal you are for wanting to be left alone.

Then thy blew up OKC,,and blamed it on the Patriot Movement.

Shit has been runaway down hill ever since.

no no, just ignore them...it works...

[satchelmcqueen]

i saw a video a few years back about this complete with the pics of the dead kids and their moms inside the building. i dont remember the gas name, but they did use it.
Tear gas doesn't do that to you...

[AuH20]

They could have picked up DK anytime they wanted to, since he was in town frequently.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10gBL3PMw7o

[libertyjam]

i saw a video a few years back about this complete with the pics of the dead kids and their moms inside the building. i dont remember the gas name, but they did use it.

Yep, first they filled the building with so much military grade tear gas that is was a flammable mixture in the air, they they intentionally lit the fire or gas lantern flames inside started the fire, the burning of the tear gas produced Hydrogen Cyanide gas HCN, death from HCN causes exactly those kind of contortions in the body.

[Anti Federalist]

This thread came up while discussing the new (2018) TV series on the incident.

[acptulsa]

Probably this one:

Waco: The Rules of Engagement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCfzLFIT5QM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCfzLFIT5QM


This one was made two years after Rules of Engagement, and is even better, IMO.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCblw0_ls7M

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?405967-20-Year-Anniversery-of-Waco-The-Rules-of-Engagement


They could have picked up DK anytime they wanted to, since he was in town frequently.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10gBL3PMw7o

Always nice to check up from time to time and make sure YouTube is getting Sanitized for Our Protection

[Anti Federalist]

Always nice to check up from time to time and make sure YouTube is getting Sanitized for Our Protection

Updated:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O78gUTO_1M


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr9pQ1pIbiU

[timosman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ1b-PHdFZU