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View Full Version : when getting pulled over is a cop supposed to tell you the P.C. reason first??




V4Vendetta
02-27-2013, 07:37 PM
when getting pulled over by the police, are they supposed to tell you why they pulled you over before asking you to provide them your ID and proof of insurance? and if they are... And you refuse to provide them your ID until they give you the P.C. do they have a right to remove you from your vehicle forcefully and charge you with failure to identify?

mport1
02-27-2013, 07:43 PM
It doesn't matter what they are "supposed" to do. They will do whatever they want, whenever they want. It's not like they will get punished for doing something they weren't "supposed" to do.

V4Vendetta
02-27-2013, 07:45 PM
ummm.... I sue their ass for disobeying constitutional law, and laws they are supposed to abide by EVERY time they make a traffic stop

WM_in_MO
02-27-2013, 07:46 PM
ummm.... I sue their ass for disobeying constitutional law, and laws they are supposed to abide by EVERY time they make a traffic stop
You must be new.

V4Vendetta
02-27-2013, 07:50 PM
Does the law state that police must give the probable cause reason for pulling a vehicle over? its a simple question

WM_in_MO
02-27-2013, 07:53 PM
The 4th amendment secures us from unreasonable search and blah blah... OH HAI TSA.

coastie
02-27-2013, 07:54 PM
when getting pulled over by the police, are they supposed to tell you why they pulled you over before asking you to provide them your ID and proof of insurance? and if they are... And you refuse to provide them your ID until they give you the P.C. do they have a right to remove you from your vehicle forcefully and charge you with failure to identify?

Most states require you to provide DL if you are driving on public roads, period. To avoid the escalation you just described, it's best to provide it when asked and then shut your mouth. If you get a ticket, fight it in court, because that's when it matters whether they had probable cause to pull you over or not. Trying to argue whether or not they do when its happening will either get you arrested, tased, beaten, pepper sprayed or shot in these times.

Refuse consent to any search, then shut your mouth. Do NOT try to stop them if they do search anyway, for what might happen if you try to stop them, see above. Remaining silent makes their job harder, because they have to lie harder to prove you were doing something wrong. Talking to them about any of it only increases the chance of them twisting your words into something to charge you with.

jcannon98188
02-27-2013, 07:54 PM
I am not a lawyer, but no. I don't think they do. A quick google search seems to reinforce this. As always though, do not consent to any searches. And do not talk to them. if they attempt to question you (further then "do you know how fast you were going") give them the standard "Am I being detained? Am I free to go?" and remember, silence is NOT an admission of guilt, and CAN NOT be used against you in a court of law.

jcannon98188
02-27-2013, 07:55 PM
Also, pull out your phone and video tape everything! This absolutely IS LEGAL! And video evidence showing that you were in the right, and the cop was in the wrong will work in your favor.

coastie
02-27-2013, 07:55 PM
Does the law state that police must give the probable cause reason for pulling a vehicle over? its a simple question

Look up the law in your state, they're all different.

mport1
02-27-2013, 08:08 PM
ummm.... I sue their ass for disobeying constitutional law, and laws they are supposed to abide by EVERY time they make a traffic stop

That would mean spending tons of time and money to pursue a case with a very small probability of victory. Even if you were to win, the likelihood of anything happening to the officer is minuscule. Maybe you'd be awarded some money that has been stolen from taxpayers, but that is the best case scenario.


Does the law state that police must give the probable cause reason for pulling a vehicle over? its a simple question

Once again, the government does not abide by their laws and is almost never held accountable to them. Laws are only used to oppress the people, not hold government officials accountable.

So, in my opinion, it is almost pointless to study their laws to know how they are "supposed" to behave. I'd suggest avoiding cops at all costs and if you do encounter them, stay quiet as they are trying to build a case against you.

Anti Federalist
02-27-2013, 08:12 PM
It doesn't matter what they are "supposed" to do. They will do whatever they want, whenever they want. It's not like they will get punished for doing something they weren't "supposed" to do.


You must be new.

Honestly...

Anti Federalist
02-27-2013, 08:15 PM
And this goes here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2
02-27-2013, 08:17 PM
And do not talk to them. if they attempt to question you (further then "do you know how fast you were going") give them the standard "Am I being detained? Am I free to go?"


I wouldn't answer that one, either. It's a trick question designed to make you admit guilt, or admit negligence. That's why it's "standard." Nearly everything they say to you is a deliberate attempt to entrap you or strengthen their court case. That includes "Do you know why I pulled you over?" and "Do you know how fast you were going."

My answer to the first is "It seems like you should be telling me. Don't you know why you pulled me over?"

My answer to the second is "I'd prefer not to answer any questions, sir."

Keith and stuff
02-27-2013, 08:17 PM
Does the law state that police must give the probable cause reason for pulling a vehicle over? its a simple question

No. They have to have made up a reason by the time the case goes to trial and not a minute sooner.

The Gold Standard
02-27-2013, 08:18 PM
ummm.... I sue their ass for disobeying constitutional law, and laws they are supposed to abide by EVERY time they make a traffic stop

Good luck with that. What country do you think this is?

kcchiefs6465
02-27-2013, 08:39 PM
Do you have recorded evidence?

What exactly happened would be helpful to know too.

Usually a traffic stop goes like this,
"What seems to be the problem officer?" - Or something like that.
The cop will then say, "Well I pulled you over because you have a tail light out." - Or the reason.

If this cop came up and demanded your identification, you ask what you were pulled over for, and he told you to shut the fuck up and give him your papers, it is probably because he knows you, or more likely, he is having a bad day.

Even being verbally berated and physically accosted (with video and audio evidence, mind you) nothing is going to happen to the cop. With me, the evidence was destroyed and the police chief assured me that that, 'doesn't sound like his officers.' Trumped up charges against a friend were dismissed but my traffic tickets and fines remained. [which were trumped up as well, btw] My ripped up car, dog paw muddied seats and ruined shoes/clothes were just an 'inconvenience.' No apology was given, only threats of summary execution and that if they see me again in said neighborhood they were going to 'crack my fucking skull open.' I only tell you this as an example that nothing will happen through the expensive so called justice system. Fight it in court if you are able to produce evidence. Otherwise the taking of days off of work, the hiring a competent attorney, the harrassment you will receive when they know your name, just isn't worth it.

See the video of the cop punching the woman in the face and the judge acquitting him. They aren't your public servants. They publically serve themselves and their superiors. [and by superiors, I mean the people actually making policy, not his promoted friend who destroyed evidence and falsified documents more readily than he] FTP. Use it as an eye opening experience and try to stay away from those cocksuckers as much as possible.

V4Vendetta
02-27-2013, 08:42 PM
very well.... the cop couldn't give me a reason of why he pulled me over. I kept asking I kept telling him he had to give me the probable cause for him pulling me over... after the third time... he stepped back, put his hand on his taser and told to me to step out. so I complied to avoid a very bad night. while my hands were on my tailgate. his partner reviewed the tape... 5 minutes later his partner came up him and said "he didn't use a blinker" then the cop said he was my friend and only going to give me a warning. then he said when I come into his town I will answer all his questions and not have a attitude.
If that Lil 23 year old bitch wasn't wearing a badge I would've smashed his teeth out

kcchiefs6465
02-27-2013, 08:50 PM
very well.... the cop couldn't give me a reason of why he pulled me over. I kept asking I kept telling him he had to give me the probable cause for him pulling me over... after the third time... he stepped back, put his hand on his taser and told to me to step out. so I complied to avoid a very bad night. while my hands were on my tailgate. his partner reviewed the tape... 5 minutes later his partner came up him and said "he didn't use a blinker" then the cop said he was my friend and only going to give me a warning. then he said when I come into his town I will answer all his questions and not have a attitude.
If that Lil 23 year old bitch wasn't wearing a badge I would've smashed his teeth out
Just a pig on a power trip. I usually appease their ego. Better that than the alternative. [beaten and thrown in jail for assaulting the ones with leaded gloves :rolleyes:] I've given them a piece of my mind a few times. It never ended inexspensively. If they are searching me or putting cuffs on me [they usually have their taser drawn and try that bullshit of saying 'STOP RESISTING,' or for me, 'STOP TENSING UP'] I state calmly and clearly for the camera and any audio recorders that, "I am not resisting in any way. I have committed no crime and am being compliant. Should you tase me with that taser, my lawyer is going to own your department." I repeat it often until I'm in the back of the car. I've never been tasered, and they've tried to, or at least I think they would have had I not stated as much, so I consider it to be pretty effective.

Feelgood
02-27-2013, 08:53 PM
If you are the operator of a motor vehicle, you are required by law to produce a drivers license. Period. He does not need to provide a reason for stopping, you however need to prove you can legally operate a vehicle on the public roads. Passengers in your vehicle are not required to provide ID, ID themselves or anything else. Only the person operating the vehicle. The officer has every right to ensure you have a license, and it is in good standing.

It sucks, but it is the only time the law requires you to identify yourself.

speciallyblend
02-27-2013, 09:06 PM
i read the thread sorry this happened to you. all i can give for advice is listen to nancy reagan ,JUST SAY NO and start singing nwa, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYHfRQ6Nn1c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYHfRQ6Nn1c

acptulsa
02-27-2013, 09:22 PM
It sucks, but it is the only time the law requires you to identify yourself.

Not exactly. You are required to identify yourself whenever required to identify yourself. It is, however, the only time you're required to provide proof. The Supreme Court guaranteed that in Kolender v. Lawsen.

And the Constitution requires that they tell you what you're being charged with when they charge you with something. This does not mean they can search you or your property without probable cause. If they arrest you, this is sufficient.

When you get pulled over, try if you can to pull into a private parking lot if there's one very handy. Tell the cop you did it for his safety, so he's not hanging out there in traffic. Works in the city; obviously you won't get away with it on the Interstate. If asked to step out of your car, roll up the window, lock the door on the way out, and close it. If you get arrested and your car is on the street, they can and will tow it, and they can and will search it. If your car is on private property, the property owner has to complain about it being there before they get to tow and search it. And if it's locked, suddenly they have to go to a judge to get a warrant before they can poke around inside.

Works. Trust me.

V4Vendetta
02-27-2013, 09:35 PM
If you are the operator of a motor vehicle, you are required by law to produce a drivers license. Period. He does not need to provide a reason for stopping, you however need to prove you can legally operate a vehicle on the public roads. Passengers in your vehicle are not required to provide ID, ID themselves or anything else. Only the person operating the vehicle. The officer has every right to ensure you have a license, and it is in good standing.

It sucks, but it is the only time the law requires you to identify yourself.

so... cops can pull everyone over on the road just to ask to see their papers or do they have to have a reason? Im pretty sure you are wrong.

kcchiefs6465
02-27-2013, 09:36 PM
Not exactly. You are required to identify yourself whenever required to identify yourself. It is, however, the only time you're required to provide proof. The Supreme Court guaranteed that in Kolender v. Lawsen.

And the Constitution requires that they tell you what you're being charged with when they charge you with something. This does not mean they can search you or your property without probable cause. If they arrest you, this is sufficient.

When you get pulled over, try if you can to pull into a private parking lot if there's one very handy. Tell the cop you did it for his safety, so he's not hanging out there in traffic. Works in the city; obviously you won't get away with it on the Interstate. If asked to step out of your car, roll up the window, lock the door on the way out, and close it. If you get arrested and your car is on the street, they can and will tow it, and they can and will search it. If your car is on private property, the property owner has to complain about it being there before they get to tow and search it. And if it's locked, suddenly they have to go to a judge to get a warrant before they can poke around inside.

Works. Trust me.
Good advice. I'd like to add that if they are particularly annoyed by your understanding of your rights as well as trying actively to protect them, they could and probably would go to try and get the owner to sign off on the tow. Still very good advice.

Reminds me of a time I was near the court house. A man was upset for some reason or another [I believe it had to do with his kids but wasn't paying that much attention to it] and cursing the justice system. A cop came up to me and asked if the man was bothering me. I said, "No, not at all." The cop replied, "Are you sure? Because I have to have someone complain before I can arrest him for disturbing the peace." I said, "Yeah, I'm sure." Mainly disgusted with the pig I left. I'm not sure what happened to the man. The cop probably found someone else less understanding than I.

kcchiefs6465
02-27-2013, 09:36 PM
so... cops can pull everyone over on the road just to ask to see their papers or do they have to have a reason? Im pretty sure you are wrong.
Consider checkpoints. They are unconstitutional, but upheld, for 'public safety.'

speciallyblend
02-27-2013, 09:43 PM
so... cops can pull everyone over on the road just to ask to see their papers or do they have to have a reason? Im pretty sure you are wrong.

actually you have the right to pull over where you feel safe so you can drive miles if on a deserted highway and they might be mad but it is your right to pull over in a safe place yourself. period done it before myself drove 2 miles with cop lights on me until i got to a gas station . i wasn't arrested and explained i wanted to pull over to a safe and populated place. They cannot argue with folks especially with people faking being police etc etc.

acptulsa
02-27-2013, 09:45 PM
actually you have the right to pull over where you feel safe so you can drive miles if on a deserted highway and they might be mad but it is your right to pull over in a safe place yourself. period done it before myself drove 2 miles with cop lights on me until i got to a gas station . i wasn't arrested and explained i wanted to pull over to a safe and populated place.

Of course, you want to be moving below traffic speed and have your flashers on to acknowledge that you know you're busted. Otherwise, they'll ram your ass into the ditch in a heartbeat.

kcchiefs6465
02-27-2013, 09:49 PM
Of course, you want to be moving below traffic speed and have your flashers on to acknowledge that you know you're busted. Otherwise, they'll ram your ass into the ditch in a heartbeat.
Yup. And you want to wear a helmet too.

ETA: And be grounded... lol.

V4Vendetta
02-27-2013, 09:54 PM
Consider checkpoints. They are unconstitutional, but upheld, for 'public safety.'

and I've seen people go to jail for refusing to produce Id at checkpoints, go to trial, win, and get financial compensation.

coastie
02-27-2013, 09:59 PM
and I've seen people go to jail for refusing to produce Id at checkpoints, go to trial, win, and get financial compensation.

Well then. You seem transfixed on suing them, you've mentioned it several times already. That's what this thread has really been about-whether or not you can sue them.

It's not hard...get off your computer, grab your cell phone camera, and get pulled over for, lets say, running a stop sign, or speeding. There are several free instant streaming services out there, I'll check back for the link, and look forward to the video and following your story.

speciallyblend
02-27-2013, 10:00 PM
Of course, you want to be moving below traffic speed and have your flashers on to acknowledge that you know you're busted. Otherwise, they'll ram your ass into the ditch in a heartbeat.
i was going slower, i didn't have flashers on so i am lucky i didn't get beat up or run off the road. i guess i was lucky:) note to self remember flashers next time;)

kcchiefs6465
02-27-2013, 10:08 PM
and I've seen people go to jail for refusing to produce Id at checkpoints, go to trial, win, and get financial compensation.
I haven't. And I've seen evidence planted, my friend beat up, my car illegally searched, my underage girlfriend molested by a male officer, my car threatened to be impounded for a marijuana seed, all video from the 20 some odd different cruisers besides one was malfunctioning. That is just an expansion of my earlier post where the trumped up charges against a friend were dismissed. The lawsuit went no where and cost a shit load of money. Mind you I still had to pay [I]my 350 or so dollar fines and tickets. [that were trumped up as well]

I know people who were put in a coma by the police. [when he was 16] He didn't get a penny.

A friend I went to school with came in one day with his eye busted. [the worst I've ever seen] Pure blood red with half his face swollen. What did he do? He stopped when the rest of his friends ran. He didn't get a penny.

I could go on and on and on. [just about my run ins with them] You aren't going to get anything until they shoot your ass in front of a dozen witnesses. And even then, it will take years, and you probably will lose.

The cop sure as hell won't get in any trouble.

Keith and stuff
02-27-2013, 10:09 PM
Ian of Free Talk Live is in FL right now. He just posting this photo on the Free Talk Live Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/freetalklive).

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/c156.0.403.403/p403x403/553245_10151426081422973_1171075156_n.jpg

When I was living here, there was only one camera at this intersection. Now there are at least eight. Welcome to Florida - you are being watched!

This is what the police state looks like!

kcchiefs6465
02-27-2013, 10:11 PM
Does anyone remember the case of the cop letting the dog loose over someone's fence? [private property] The dog mauled an 86 year old man to death. I just wondered, what ever happened with that case?

Tragic event, no policy changed, and no fucks given.

Plus rep to anyone who remembers what I'm talking about and posts a thread link. It was back when we had the notorious cop apologist azxd frequenting every police brutality thread.

aGameOfThrones
02-27-2013, 10:30 PM
If you are the operator of a motor vehicle, you are required by law to produce a drivers license. Period. He does not need to provide a reason for stopping, you however need to prove you can legally operate a vehicle on the public roads. Passengers in your vehicle are not required to provide ID, ID themselves or anything else. Only the person operating the vehicle. The officer has every right to ensure you have a license, and it is in good standing.

It sucks, but it is the only time the law requires you to identify yourself.

An individual operating or traveling in an automobile does not lose all reasonable expectation of privacy simply because the automobile and its use are subject to government regulation. 25 Automobile travel is a basic, pervasive, and often necessary mode of transportation to and from one's home, workplace, and leisure activities. Many people spend more hours each day traveling in cars than walking on the streets. Undoubtedly, many find a greater sense of security and privacy in traveling in an automobile than they do in exposing themselves by pedestrian or other modes of travel. Were the [440 U.S. 648, 663] * individual subject to unfettered governmental intrusion every time he entered an automobile, the security guaranteed by the Fourth Amendment would be seriously circumscribed. As Terry v. Ohio, supra, recognized, people are not shorn of all Fourth Amendment protection when they step from their homes onto the public sidewalks. Nor are they shorn of those interests when they step from the sidewalks into their automobiles. See Adams v. Williams, 407 U.S. 143, 146 (1972).

VII
Accordingly, we hold that except in those situations in which there is at least articulable and reasonable suspicion that a motorist is unlicensed or that an automobile is not registered, or that either the vehicle or an occupant is otherwise subject to seizure for violation of law, stopping an automobile and detaining the driver in order to check his driver's license and the registration of the automobile are unreasonable under the Fourth Amendment. This holding does not preclude the State of Delaware or other States from developing methods for spot checks that involve less intrusion or that do not involve the unconstrained exercise of discretion. 26 Questioning of all oncoming traffic at roadblock-type stops is one possible alternative. We hold only that persons in automobiles on public roadways may not for that reason alone have their travel and privacy interfered with at the unbridled discretion of police officers. The judgment below is affirmed.- DELAWARE v. PROUSE

aGameOfThrones
02-27-2013, 10:33 PM
so... cops can pull everyone over on the road just to ask to see their papers or do they have to have a reason? Im pretty sure you are wrong.

Need PC, but more importantly an apologist.

kcchiefs6465
02-27-2013, 10:46 PM
An individual operating or traveling in an automobile does not lose all reasonable expectation of privacy simply because the automobile and its use are subject to government regulation. 25 Automobile travel is a basic, pervasive, and often necessary mode of transportation to and from one's home, workplace, and leisure activities. Many people spend more hours each day traveling in cars than walking on the streets. Undoubtedly, many find a greater sense of security and privacy in traveling in an automobile than they do in exposing themselves by pedestrian or other modes of travel. Were the [440 U.S. 648, 663] * individual subject to unfettered governmental intrusion every time he entered an automobile, the security guaranteed by the Fourth Amendment would be seriously circumscribed. As Terry v. Ohio, supra, recognized, people are not shorn of all Fourth Amendment protection when they step from their homes onto the public sidewalks. Nor are they shorn of those interests when they step from the sidewalks into their automobiles. See Adams v. Williams, 407 U.S. 143, 146 (1972).

VII
Accordingly, we hold that except in those situations in which there is at least articulable and reasonable suspicion that a motorist is unlicensed or that an automobile is not registered, or that either the vehicle or an occupant is otherwise subject to seizure for violation of law, stopping an automobile and detaining the driver in order to check his driver's license and the registration of the automobile are unreasonable under the Fourth Amendment. This holding does not preclude the State of Delaware or other States from developing methods for spot checks that involve less intrusion or that do not involve the unconstrained exercise of discretion. 26 Questioning of all oncoming traffic at roadblock-type stops is one possible alternative. We hold only that persons in automobiles on public roadways may not for that reason alone have their travel and privacy interfered with at the unbridled discretion of police officers. The judgment below is affirmed.- DELAWARE v. PROUSE
Where do DUI checkpoints fall into this?

I'm not trying to come off as antagonistic. I'm really trying to understand how we got to this point where no one questions arbitrarily stopping everyone on the road, and the difference of pulling someone over to ask for a license.

CPUd
02-28-2013, 12:02 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjw3jP9RVZc

VoluntaryAmerican
02-28-2013, 12:07 AM
so... cops can pull everyone over on the road just to ask to see their papers or do they have to have a reason? Im pretty sure you are wrong.

I've been pulled over for no reason. And no fault of my own... i did not swerve or anything.

When it's late at night cops pull people over without cause trying to catch drunks, happened to me on more than one occasion.

The Gold Standard
02-28-2013, 12:10 AM
Be thankful they didn't put a few hundred rounds into your vehicle thinking you might be someone else.

Anti Federalist
02-28-2013, 12:29 AM
Good advice. I'd like to add that if they are particularly annoyed by your understanding of your rights as well as trying actively to protect them, they could and probably would go to try and get the owner to sign off on the tow. Still very good advice.

Reminds me of a time I was near the court house. A man was upset for some reason or another [I believe it had to do with his kids but wasn't paying that much attention to it] and cursing the justice system. A cop came up to me and asked if the man was bothering me. I said, "No, not at all." The cop replied, "Are you sure? Because I have to have someone complain before I can arrest him for disturbing the peace." I said, "Yeah, I'm sure." Mainly disgusted with the pig I left. I'm not sure what happened to the man. The cop probably found someone else less understanding than I.

God only knows what that Mundane was ranting and raving about.

coastie
02-28-2013, 12:30 AM
Well then. You seem transfixed on suing them, you've mentioned it several times already. That's what this thread has really been about-whether or not you can sue them.

It's not hard...get off your computer, grab your cell phone camera, and get pulled over for, lets say, running a stop sign, or speeding. There are several free instant streaming services out there, I'll check back for the link, and look forward to the video and following your story.

Well? I went ahead and got some links for you.

http://qik.com/

http://youtube.com/

What I posted earlier is the only true way to prove your hypothesis.

To expand on kcchief's post...

I have seen a friend get an ounce planted in his car by the cops when we were in high school. That's a Felony here in Florida. We know for a fact he didn't have any weed on him...because he was on his way to pick some up when he got pulled. He asked before court for them to show his fingerprints on the bag they planted-they never produced any, and the charge stuck anyways. He was never read his rights, either.

I was illegally pulled over, then searched 11 years ago(one of many times, actually). No drugs were found. The K9 ripped my MB Quart 6" mid range speakers in my doors(back when MB Quart was still worth a damn), broke my tweeter mounts off and left 'em just dangling there, and one of the fat fuck cops actually broke my windshield wiper control right off while searching, and they ripped off the two panels in the back seat area by the wheel wells, god forbid getting a fucking phillips head screwdriver and removing the ONE screw that held them on.

They then broke my cold air intake off, because, you know, everyone hides bags of pot where it can get sucked into the throttle body, and starve your engine of air.:rolleyes:

I took their asses to court. Long story short-I was threatened with contempt for refusing to be talked to like I was guilty of something, but they just didn't catch me at it.:confused: I had to fix my car out of my pocket. In a nutshell, I was supposed to just accept the damage as part of them serving me-the judge actually said that(paraphrased).

So, good luck you in your quest to sue the shit out of the man.

kcchiefs6465
02-28-2013, 01:47 AM
God only knows what that Mundane was ranting and raving about.
I really couldn't say. As far as I could understand, [I only noticed and started paying attention to him when the cop asked if I was bothered] it was about him not being able to see his kids. I had problems of my own and wasn't trying to be witnessing anything.


Do you remember which incident I'm referring to in post 34? If there's anyone that would remember I thought it'd be you.

Dogsoldier
02-28-2013, 01:49 AM
Since were sharing experiences .

My father and a cousin were arrested when they were teens for alcohol by the guy in the links father. My father and cousin refused to tell where they got the alcohol and this morley swingle sr proceeded to beat my cousin up trying to get him to tell where they got the alcohol. My father said there were quite a few cops in the room watching as he beat him. The cops all got away with it and nothing was ever done. My father has told me that story many of times.

http://www.capecounty.us/Morley%20Swingle%20Biography.aspx