View Full Version : Why not sanction North Korea?
RandRevolution
02-26-2013, 05:46 AM
Yeah it's an act of war. This is a country run by a crazy unstable dictator who's entire culture is based off hating the US, that releases videos of them nuking the US, that has nukes and continues to test them that has half their population living in concentration camps. Fuck those guys, the US should stop sending them aid and put on as tough sanctions as possible to ruin them until there is new leadership.
WarAnonymous
02-26-2013, 05:50 AM
Yeah it's an act of war. This is a country run by a crazy unstable dictator who's entire culture is based off hating the US, that releases videos of them nuking the US, that has nukes and continues to test them that has half their population living in concentration camps. Fuck those guys, the US should stop sending them aid and put on as tough sanctions as possible to ruin them until there is new leadership.
Because the only people that pay in sanctions are the poor people. Women and children die because they can't get medicine that they need, and food supplies become scarse. What will this achieve other then make everyone there hate us? The rich and elite in the country will be able to get what they need.
Aid shouldn't be going to anyone... but sanctions, thats another story.
DamianTV
02-26-2013, 05:52 AM
Its pointless as the country is pretty much a bunch of isolationists. Iran, on the other hand, trades with other countries that arent hostile toward them, like Pakistan. Right now, Pakistan and Iran have a deal where Iran wants to build an oil refinery in Pakistan. Hence why we're beating the war drums on Iran again, oh, and your gas went up by 50 cents per gallon in the last several weeks. What exactly would instilling sanctions against N. Korea accomplish? The only reason that both Iran and N. Korea are "our enemy" is because the people that have control of our financial system (Federal Reserve Bank and International Banksters) do not have control over their economies.
A Son of Liberty
02-26-2013, 05:56 AM
Uh, the U.S. government has imposed sanctions on North Korea.
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/Pages/nkorea.aspx
tod evans
02-26-2013, 06:10 AM
I'd rather sanction California, NY,NJ,DC and maybe Florida...
But nobody asked me:o
RandRevolution
02-26-2013, 06:15 AM
Because the only people that pay in sanctions are the poor people. Women and children die because they can't get medicine that they need, and food supplies become scarse. What will this achieve other then make everyone there hate us? The rich and elite in the country will be able to get what they need.
Aid shouldn't be going to anyone... but sanctions, thats another story.
The military and government are inevitably going to feel the effects of the sanctions, problem is the US food aid right now goes to the military. It sucks for the civilians but whenever you go to war with another country's government it's going to end up hurting the civilians, doesn't mean we shouldn't try to weaken a country ran by a sole crazy dictator who has signs everywhere about how evil the imperialist Americans are, tests nuke launches to the US and releases videos of them nuking new york.
I know they've already sanctioned NK but some people here oppose it for some reason.
The Gold Standard
02-26-2013, 08:30 AM
Why don't you grab a rifle and go liberate them instead? Don't volunteer my money for your paranoid delusions.
coastie
02-26-2013, 08:39 AM
The military and government are inevitably going to feel the effects of the sanctions, problem is the US food aid right now goes to the military. It sucks for the civilians but whenever you go to war with another country's government it's going to end up hurting the civilians, doesn't mean we shouldn't try to weaken a country ran by a sole crazy dictator who has signs everywhere about how evil the imperialist Americans are, tests nuke launches to the US and releases videos of them nuking new york.
I know they've already sanctioned NK but some people here oppose it for some reason.
We oppose it because it's morally wrong. PERIOD. NK is NO threat to us whatsoever. Our bases in SK don't count, sorry, those are what would be called self-inflicted wounds if NK attacked them-we shouldn't be there in the first place.
As someone already pointed out, sanctions don't hurt anyone but the little guy. The fact that's A-OK with you just because they have a crazy little dicked dictator is quite disturbing.
If you feel that strongly about it, buy a rifle, fund your own trip over there and go show us how its done, cowboy.
A Son of Liberty
02-26-2013, 08:44 AM
This is the kind of person we're supposed to be building coalitions with, I see.
Sanctions kill innocent people. The U.S. government shouldn't be preventing free people from doing peaceful trade with anyone the choose.
coastie
02-26-2013, 08:45 AM
I'd rather sanction California, NY,NJ,DC and maybe Florida...
But nobody asked me:o
:confused:
I'm not seeing the comparison with those locales and Florida, night and day, we are nothing like those shit holes, not even close. I can defend myself with lethal force in my home, car or even on the street and not have to worry about jail time in Florida-even against the police, if necessary, laws on the books here say I can use up to deadly force to prevent an unlawful arrest/assault from LE.
Shoot someone in your own home in any of those you listed, and you're more than likely facing charges at minimum, or going to prison. Outside of your home in those other states? Straight to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
jmdrake
02-26-2013, 08:53 AM
Uh, the U.S. government has imposed sanctions on North Korea.
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/Pages/nkorea.aspx
Don't let a little thing like "facts" get in the way of the OP's rant. ;)
jmdrake
02-26-2013, 08:55 AM
The military and government are inevitably going to feel the effects of the sanctions, problem is the US food aid right now goes to the military. It sucks for the civilians but whenever you go to war with another country's government it's going to end up hurting the civilians, doesn't mean we shouldn't try to weaken a country ran by a sole crazy dictator who has signs everywhere about how evil the imperialist Americans are, tests nuke launches to the US and releases videos of them nuking new york.
I know they've already sanctioned NK but some people here oppose it for some reason.
Hey, I'm against foreign aid as much as anyone. So here's a compromise. Get rid of the food aid and the sanctions! If not trading with North Korea is such a good idea, then convince the American public of this "fact" through the free marketplace of ideas. Don't use the barrel of your totalitarian gun to force me not to trade with a totalitarian regime.
HOLLYWOOD
02-26-2013, 08:59 AM
How much Crude Oil, NAT GAS, Lithium in North Korea?
The US Department of Propaganda must maintain fear in all Americans.
Like General Wesley Clark has stated, there's been a 'Policy Coup' in the US government. The question should be, WHO are the clowns in Washington DC working for.
Acala
02-26-2013, 09:08 AM
Yeah it's an act of war. This is a country run by a crazy unstable dictator who's entire culture is based off hating the US, that releases videos of them nuking the US, that has nukes and continues to test them that has half their population living in concentration camps. Fuck those guys, the US should stop sending them aid and put on as tough sanctions as possible to ruin them until there is new leadership.
North Korea is not my problem. If you want to go make them behave in a way you think is appropriate, have at it. Just leave me out of it.
But I might note in passing that North Korea keeps their bullshit confined within their borders, unlike some arrogant, bullying super-powers I can name that think murdering innocent people all over the world is SOP. Might want to check some of your assumptions about moral superiority before charging off on another crusade to make the world safe for democracy.
A Son of Liberty
02-26-2013, 09:50 AM
Hey, I'm against foreign aid as much as anyone. So here's a compromise. Get rid of the food aid and the sanctions! If not trading with North Korea is such a good idea, then convince the American public of this "fact" through the free marketplace of ideas. Don't use the barrel of your totalitarian gun to force me not to trade with a totalitarian regime.
:thumbs:
As Ron has pointed out, the best way to spread our ideals is through free, uncoerced trade.
fisharmor
02-26-2013, 09:57 AM
I'm not seeing the comparison with those locales and Florida
Well, not picking a fight here but Nick Christie (http://reason.com/blog/2012/01/17/the-prosecutor-who-cleared-nick-christie) was murdered in Florida, and his murderers are still on the job.
I'm not saying other states aren't just as guilty... I'm just saying that if we're talking human rights abuses, Florida actually does fit the bill.
pcosmar
02-26-2013, 10:10 AM
Yeah it's an act of war. This is a country run by a crazy unstable dictator who's entire culture is based off hating the US, that releases videos of them nuking the US, that has nukes and continues to test them that has half their population living in concentration camps. Fuck those guys, the US should stop sending them aid and put on as tough sanctions as possible to ruin them until there is new leadership.
Why are you here?
What is the point of posting this garbage?
pcosmar
02-26-2013, 10:17 AM
Why is anyone here even engaging this Troll drivel?
Korea is another Fine example of Foreign Policy and United Nations failure.
We should have never been involved there in the first place,, It was a waste of wealth and Lives from the beginning.
A Son of Liberty
02-26-2013, 10:20 AM
Why is anyone here even engaging this Troll drivel?
Korea is another Fine example of Foreign Policy and United Nations failure.
We should have never been involved there in the first place,, It was a waste of wealth and Lives from the beginning.
Perhaps on the off chance that we can convince another interventionist/neocon of the error of his ways?
I know the odds are long, but what the heck! :)
erowe1
02-26-2013, 10:25 AM
If you don't want to sell stuff to or buy stuff from people in North Korea, then fine, don't. If you want to get other people to go along with you, then convince them to.
But if I want to sell something to or buy something from someone in North Korea, it's not ok for you to use force to stop me.
compromise
02-26-2013, 10:47 AM
NK pretty much sanctions itself. The regime really does not have much time left, I'd expect it to go by itself within the next two decades.
Uriah
02-26-2013, 10:56 AM
Yeah it's an act of war. This is a country run by a crazy unstable dictator who's entire culture is based off hating the US, that releases videos of them nuking the US, that has nukes and continues to test them that has half their population living in concentration camps. Fuck those guys, the US should stop sending them aid and put on as tough sanctions as possible to ruin them until there is new leadership.
What you advocate is immoral, inhumane, and nothing short of attempted genocide. Sanctions are nothing less than a siege. Instead of an army besieging a castle as in the middle ages sanctions siege an entire nation. Sieges lead to malnourishment, starvation, spread of disease, violence, and death. I do not agree with what you advocate.
kcchiefs6465
02-26-2013, 11:00 AM
Yeah it's an act of war. This is a country run by a crazy unstable dictator who's entire culture is based off hating the US, that releases videos of them nuking the US, that has nukes and continues to test them that has half their population living in concentration camps. Fuck those guys, the US should stop sending them aid and put on as tough sanctions as possible to ruin them until there is new leadership.
It is ineffective. Sanctions create nationalism, by way of every day people [who may have uprisen but now can't] relying on the government for basic necessities. Also, it compels people together. They all become nationalistic. Imagine our country after 9/11. It is essentially the same thing. They see sanctions as a foreign attack on their country and they rally together. Look at Cuba and how well sanctions and embargos worked over there. Castros are still in power.
About as failed a policy as you could think of. [with respect to what it's supposed to do, and what it actually does]
kcchiefs6465
02-26-2013, 11:06 AM
Why is anyone here even engaging this Troll drivel?
Korea is another Fine example of Foreign Policy and United Nations failure.
We should have never been involved there in the first place,, It was a waste of wealth and Lives from the beginning.
Perhaps on the off chance that we can convince another interventionist/neocon of the error of his ways?
I know the odds are long, but what the heck! :)
Yeah, that, but also many other people here don't seem to fully grasp how ineffective sanctions are. [and that they're acts of war, but that's neither here nor there] Randrevolution isn't the first person to be in favor of sanctions here. It's good to remind people every now and again.
erowe1
02-26-2013, 11:17 AM
Yeah, that, but also many other people here don't seem to fully grasp how ineffective sanctions are. [and that they're acts of war, but that's neither here nor there] Randrevolution isn't the first person to be in favor of sanctions here. It's good to remind people every now and again.
If we want to help Rand get elected, then we need to get used to engaging these kinds of views.
RandRevolution
02-26-2013, 02:12 PM
North Korea is not my problem. If you want to go make them behave in a way you think is appropriate, have at it. Just leave me out of it.
But I might note in passing that North Korea keeps their bullshit confined within their borders, unlike some arrogant, bullying super-powers I can name that think murdering innocent people all over the world is SOP. Might want to check some of your assumptions about moral superiority before charging off on another crusade to make the world safe for democracy.
Not saying NK should be sanctioned because of their concentration camps or because the government treats the NK people poorly, that was just an example of how crazy this guy is.
My point is that this guy who is clearly batshit insane with complete and total country over his country has nukes, has his entire culture based off hating the US that he was raised in and then they do shit like testing nuke launches to the US and releases videos of them nuking new york city. That's in addition to the fact that they are constantly threatening the south and attacked them not too long ago which further shows how unstable he is.
I'm not saying we should go to war with all totalitarian dictators, I don't care about that, just the totalitarian dictators with nukes who do all the things I mentioned above.
Clearly they only act this way towards the US because of US intervention, and of course the US government is horrible. And I'm completely aware this is an act of war just like bombing them - which is not possible because they have nukes.
Don't try to paint me as some kind of neoconservative because I want about as bare bones government as you can get and have been against every war or conflict or sanctions since WW2. But clearly you can't say North Korea is at the same threat level to the US as Iran or Australia or somewhere else.
Is it really in the interest of the American people for the North Korean government to expand?
RandRevolution
02-26-2013, 02:14 PM
Don't let a little thing like "facts" get in the way of the OP's rant. ;)
Clearly I know there are sanctions on North Korea already.
bolil
02-26-2013, 02:19 PM
Not saying NK should be sanctioned because of their concentration camps or because the government treats the NK people poorly, that was just an example of how crazy this guy is.
My point is that this guy who is clearly batshit insane with complete and total country over his country has nukes, has his entire culture based off hating the US that he was raised in and then they do shit like testing nuke launches to the US and releases videos of them nuking new york city. That's in addition to the fact that they are constantly threatening the south and attacked them not too long ago which further shows how unstable he is.
I'm not saying we should go to war with all totalitarian dictators, I don't care about that, just the totalitarian dictators with nukes who do all the things I mentioned above.
Clearly they only act this way towards the US because of US intervention, and of course the US government is horrible. And I'm completely aware this is an act of war just like bombing them - which is not possible because they have nukes.
Don't try to paint me as some kind of neoconservative because I want about as bare bones government as you can get and have been against every war or conflict or sanctions since WW2. But clearly you can't say North Korea is at the same threat level to the US as Iran or Australia or somewhere else.
Is it really in the interest of the American people for the North Korean government to expand?
I think you confuse fox news with reality. Sanctions inflame nationalism, and anytime there is a war nationalism is agitated first. Your idea disregards the people of South Korea, if we blockaded (sanctioned) North Korea they would hit south korea, not the us.
Get a rifle and a boat and get her done, don't expect to find open doors when you come back.
kcchiefs6465
02-26-2013, 02:21 PM
Well, North Korea is not a threat. They offer ridiculous nonsense of how supreme their leader is as a way to keep the people there in check. Do not worry about North Korea. Their dozen or so nuclear warheads are no match for the complete vitrification that their country would experience. [don't quote me on that, I can't rightly remember how many they have, but it is no where near our 1,550] You are worried about North Korea because of their shitty 'Robot Chicken-esque' animation? That's what makes it all the more hilarious.
twomp
02-26-2013, 02:22 PM
Not saying NK should be sanctioned because of their concentration camps or because the government treats the NK people poorly, that was just an example of how crazy this guy is.
My point is that this guy who is clearly batshit insane with complete and total country over his country has nukes, has his entire culture based off hating the US that he was raised in and then they do shit like testing nuke launches to the US and releases videos of them nuking new york city. That's in addition to the fact that they are constantly threatening the south and attacked them not too long ago which further shows how unstable he is.
I'm not saying we should go to war with all totalitarian dictators, I don't care about that, just the totalitarian dictators with nukes who do all the things I mentioned above.
Clearly they only act this way towards the US because of US intervention, and of course the US government is horrible. And I'm completely aware this is an act of war just like bombing them - which is not possible because they have nukes.
Don't try to paint me as some kind of neoconservative because I want about as bare bones government as you can get and have been against every war or conflict or sanctions since WW2. But clearly you can't say North Korea is at the same threat level to the US as Iran or Australia or somewhere else.
Is it really in the interest of the American people for the North Korean government to expand?
Pakistan has nukes and they were HARBORING Bin Laden, yet we give them aid. Shouldn't you be more outraged about that? North Korea has nukes but it won't make it halfway across the ocean before we shoot it down. If they were to shoot anything at us, it will be the end of them. Our media is doing a lot of saber rattling and instilling fear in our people. Don't fall for it.
erowe1
02-26-2013, 02:23 PM
Not saying NK should be sanctioned because of their concentration camps or because the government treats the NK people poorly, that was just an example of how crazy this guy is.
My point is that this guy who is clearly batshit insane with complete and total country over his country has nukes, has his entire culture based off hating the US that he was raised in and then they do shit like testing nuke launches to the US and releases videos of them nuking new york city. That's in addition to the fact that they are constantly threatening the south and attacked them not too long ago which further shows how unstable he is.
I'm not saying we should go to war with all totalitarian dictators, I don't care about that, just the totalitarian dictators with nukes who do all the things I mentioned above.
Clearly they only act this way towards the US because of US intervention, and of course the US government is horrible. And I'm completely aware this is an act of war just like bombing them - which is not possible because they have nukes.
Don't try to paint me as some kind of neoconservative because I want about as bare bones government as you can get and have been against every war or conflict or sanctions since WW2. But clearly you can't say North Korea is at the same threat level to the US as Iran or Australia or somewhere else.
Is it really in the interest of the American people for the North Korean government to expand?
Flip the question around.
Given that North Korea is so bad. If we're not scared of them, why are we supposed to be so scared of Iran?
shane77m
02-26-2013, 02:24 PM
The states sanctioning the Federal government would be a good idea.
kcchiefs6465
02-26-2013, 02:24 PM
Pakistan has nukes and they were HARBORING Bin Laden, yet we give them aid. Shouldn't you be more outraged about that? North Korea has nukes but it won't make it halfway across the ocean before we shoot it down. If they were to shoot anything at us, it will be the end of them. Our media is doing a lot of saber rattling and instilling fear in our people. Don't fall for it.
If their ICBMs are anywhere near as shitty as their animation is, the missile won't even make it halfway here.
My point is that this guy who is clearly batshit insane with complete and total country over his country has nukes
Is it really in the interest of the American people for the North Korean government to expand?
who (here) cares if the guy is crazy (your opinion) or sane? "crazy" dictators tend to get aid (from the US) on a pretty regular basis by promising to be less "crazy."
there's a saying about doing the same thing and expecting different results to be a definition of insanity. given this definition, i'd argue that this guy is not "batshit insane."
perhaps the opposite.
jdmyprez_deo_vindice
02-26-2013, 02:29 PM
I am with you on ending aid to them but only as long as we end it to everyone else while we are at it. If the people of North Korea are content to live under dictators than that is not my concern. If they get their act together and want to trade with us than I would be happy to welcome them with open arms. If they insist on being our enemy than I would be prepared for it and would wipe them off the map at the first sign of actual aggression but I also know the North Korean people are starving and they are beyond broke so I am not exactly worried by posturing which is really just a bargaining tool to get more aid for themselves. It is like a 7 foot tall, 350 pound bully paying a midget to leave the nerds alone because he wants a monopoly on bullying.
kcchiefs6465
02-26-2013, 02:32 PM
I am with you on ending aid to them but only as long as we end it to everyone else while we are at it. If the people of North Korea are content to live under dictators than that is not my concern. If they get their act together and want to trade with us than I would be happy to welcome them with open arms. If they insist on being our enemy than I would be prepared for it and would wipe them off the map at the first sign of actual aggression but I also know the North Korean people are starving and they are beyond broke so I am not exactly worried by posturing which is really just a bargaining tool to get more aid for themselves. It is like a 7 foot tall, 350 pound bully paying a midget to leave the nerds alone because he wants a monopoly on bullying.
This. Great analogy, btw.
RandRevolution
02-26-2013, 02:32 PM
Flip the question around.
Given that North Korea is so bad. If we're not scared of them, why are we supposed to be so scared of Iran?
Iran and North Korea are two completely different situations. They don't have nukes nor are they building any (though a country having nukes doesn't necessarily mean they're a threat at all like warmongers claim, Iran could get nuclear weapons and still wouldn't be a threat) , Iran doesn't have a culture built around hating the US, nor do they have a batshit insane totalitarian dictator (and even the most batshit insane dictators can't compare to Kim Jong Un) and they haven't attacked another country in hundreds of years. Iran is no threat to the US whatsoever.
RandRevolution
02-26-2013, 02:34 PM
I am with you on ending aid to them but only as long as we end it to everyone else while we are at it. If the people of North Korea are content to live under dictators than that is not my concern. If they get their act together and want to trade with us than I would be happy to welcome them with open arms. If they insist on being our enemy than I would be prepared for it and would wipe them off the map at the first sign of actual aggression but I also know the North Korean people are starving and they are beyond broke so I am not exactly worried by posturing which is really just a bargaining tool to get more aid for themselves. It is like a 7 foot tall, 350 pound bully paying a midget to leave the nerds alone because he wants a monopoly on bullying.
So you would only end foreign aid to North Korea on the condition it's ended to everywhere else too? I'm against all foreign aid man but clearly there is a difference here.
Acala
02-26-2013, 02:35 PM
Not saying NK should be sanctioned because of their concentration camps or because the government treats the NK people poorly, that was just an example of how crazy this guy is.
My point is that this guy who is clearly batshit insane with complete and total country over his country has nukes, has his entire culture based off hating the US that he was raised in and then they do shit like testing nuke launches to the US and releases videos of them nuking new york city. That's in addition to the fact that they are constantly threatening the south and attacked them not too long ago which further shows how unstable he is.
I'm not saying we should go to war with all totalitarian dictators, I don't care about that, just the totalitarian dictators with nukes who do all the things I mentioned above.
Clearly they only act this way towards the US because of US intervention, and of course the US government is horrible. And I'm completely aware this is an act of war just like bombing them - which is not possible because they have nukes.
Don't try to paint me as some kind of neoconservative because I want about as bare bones government as you can get and have been against every war or conflict or sanctions since WW2. But clearly you can't say North Korea is at the same threat level to the US as Iran or Australia or somewhere else.
Is it really in the interest of the American people for the North Korean government to expand?
You have fallen victim to propaganda.
Acala
02-26-2013, 02:37 PM
Iran and North Korea are two completely different situations. They don't have nukes nor are they building any (though a country having nukes doesn't necessarily mean they're a threat at all like warmongers claim, Iran could get nuclear weapons and still wouldn't be a threat) , Iran doesn't have a culture built around hating the US, nor do they have a batshit insane totalitarian dictator (and even the most batshit insane dictators can't compare to Kim Jong Un) and they haven't attacked another country in hundreds of years. Iran is no threat to the US whatsoever.
Just as a matter of interest, from whence comes your expertise on North Korean culture?
Also, who has North Korea attacked?
The Gold Standard
02-26-2013, 02:37 PM
So when are you heading over for the fight? I bet a few of your Fox News buddies will join you. None of your favorite politicians will though.
compromise
02-26-2013, 02:37 PM
So you would only end foreign aid to North Korea on the condition it's ended to everywhere else too? I'm against all foreign aid man but clearly there is a difference here.
I agree. Ending aid to NK is of greater importance than ending aid to countries that consider themselves to be our friends. Of course we should end all aid eventually, but it's best to start with our enemies.
jdmyprez_deo_vindice
02-26-2013, 02:39 PM
So you would only end foreign aid to North Korea on the condition it's ended to everywhere else too? I'm against all foreign aid man but clearly there is a difference here.
No, I would end it anywhere I could. Even one gone is better than none but I would push for it to be ended everywhere else as well. There is no difference here because the foreign aid we send to DPRK winds up no different than it does in most of the other countries that get our aid. The government keeps it, the rich people get richer, the people end up hating America more and the government that took the handout in the first place makes more noise until they get more money. The United States is a victim of a shakedown by the entire world and it is time we stop playing into it. I feel bad for the people there but they made the decision to tolerate it and if they will not even help themselves than I will be damned if I will go rushing to their aid. If they like starving so much than let them do so.
A Son of Liberty
02-26-2013, 02:47 PM
I'd recommend looking at a satellite picture of North Korea at night. Then I would recommend looking at a map of the planet.
I'm hoping that will tell you all you need to know about what you need to fear about North Korea.
A Son of Liberty
02-26-2013, 02:50 PM
The United States is a victim of a shakedown by the entire world and it is time we stop playing into it.
Disagree. More often than not, "foreign aid" is used to buy access.
The US government is not the victim here.
erowe1
02-26-2013, 02:52 PM
Iran and North Korea are two completely different situations. They don't have nukes nor are they building any (though a country having nukes doesn't necessarily mean they're a threat at all like warmongers claim, Iran could get nuclear weapons and still wouldn't be a threat) , Iran doesn't have a culture built around hating the US, nor do they have a batshit insane totalitarian dictator (and even the most batshit insane dictators can't compare to Kim Jong Un) and they haven't attacked another country in hundreds of years. Iran is no threat to the US whatsoever.
Exactly. And yet we are being told repeatedly that Iran is our greatest threat. But if North Korea is so much worse, and has nukes, and we aren't scared of them, then why should we be scared of Iran?
My point is that you're pointing the argument in the wrong direction. Instead of using it against libertarians to tell them that we should be even more scared of North Korea than we are of Iran, you should point it at neoconservatives to tell them that we should be even less scared of Iran than we are of North Korea.
jdmyprez_deo_vindice
02-26-2013, 02:54 PM
Disagree. More often than not, "foreign aid" is used to buy access.
The US government is not the victim here.
No, but the U.S. taxpayer is the victim here.
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