Family Fights $474k Hospital Bill

[presence]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K7NogjVeRQ

$5000 in little paper cups? Really?

http://www.practiceofmadness.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/pills-in-paper-cup.jpg



Those little cheapo teddy bears for the crying kids?


http://www.centennialhillshospital.com/sites/centennialhillshospital.com/files/95421878.jpg
That's a $200 Cough Suppressant Device

[Brian4Liberty]

Related thread:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?405362-A-Progressive-wakes-up-to-the-folly-of-Obamacare

[MelissaWV]

"...the health industry does not want you to see."

Yes, that is why everyone is sent a bill showing how much each thing costs, even when their insurance "covers" it.

Things to notice:

1. "Just switched to a discount insurance policy." This compromises your coverage, or rather limits it. That's fine. That's a gamble. Why'd he do it? Well he's mentioned as being a small business owner. What's happening to small businesses?

2. Their bill shows no adjustments. This means it was likely NOT submitted to their new insurance company. Period.

3. There is a section complaining about the ventilator... except the bill they show also contains a whole lot of $0 charges. Why were those not discussed?

4. ...and then they get into the bread and butter of this and the other affiliated news reports meant to outrage the American people. If he'd been older and qualified for Medicare, it would have been only a tiny fraction of the amount they were billed! Stop. Just stop. I am willing to think that there were unnecessary tests (the way the glucose was tested was an astounding waste), but their logic here floors me. Medicare does not pay enough to keep companies afloat for a lot of services. It will pay $10 for a test that consumes almost that much in staff, electricity, and rent, before a machine is ever used or results are ever analyzed. It will pay the same for 5 or 20 home health nursing visits... not per visit, but the same overall amount. You eat the cost of those additional 15 visits. There is an idea that since the Government is paying x, then everyone else should also be charged x. If you'd like to do that, be my guest, but you're going to have trouble getting ANY care that is not monitored and funded by the Government at that point.

5. These folks are shocked that everything they ASKED FOR caused a charge on their bill. They asked for a ventilator, they asked for kleenex, they asked for urinal bottles, they needed tubing, etc.. Were those things supposed to materialize for free? I don't get it.

6. The big thing people are not understanding is that everything is more expensive when it's used at the hospital. Part of it is compensating for other places where they are getting ripped off, part of it is compensating for the Government hoops they have to jump through, part of it is having to sterilize everything a gazillion times, part of it is covering the people who can't pay, part of it is the high cost of staff, part of it is... well you get the idea. This "chargemaster" is formulated as an attempt to try to deal with the issues that our current system imposes on healthcare. For all the complaining about hospitals, I've yet to see an article (like the ones that come out about Exxon/Mobil execs, for instance) showing the millions or billions of extra dollars the hospitals are taking in. Wonder where all that "outrageous" money goes?

7. An "oral administration fee" does not just bill for the little white cup. It bills for someone bringing it to you and ensuring it's the correct pill and the correct dose.

8. Ultimately, the point of the Time Magazine bullcrap is good, which is to NEGOTIATE. I'm still left wondering why these people don't seem to have submitted the bill to their insurance company at all (see earlier point about no adjustments). There is a PPO plan listed at the top of the bill, but has it crossed anyone's mind to question whether it was being submitted to their old plan by accident, which would now show up as inactive? In other words, exhaust all of your options. A piece like this makes it seem like it will take years to settle. In reality, it shouldn't.

Well, not until ObamaCare makes it even worse :(

[schiffheadbaby]

Presence I think receives a lot of government transfers for healthcare so he probably sympathizes, but I agree with Melissa. No free lunch

[presence]

Presence I think receives a lot of government transfers for healthcare so he probably sympathizes, but I agree with Melissa. No free lunch

Its a part time job keeping up with the bullshit charges my kid racks up. I got charged for a $158 teddy bear one time when it was the same damn bear they gave to us the day before; we brought it back with us. Heck we had a dozen $150 hospital logo bears charged to medicaid before we even realized they weren't

freebie hospital advertising tchotchkes.

We just keep a bear in our med bag now so we can say no thanks when they start pushing. It doesn't matter though, each time you go, someone on the staff will inevitably find it in their heart to open another package with a fresh teddy bear and adds it to your account, whether you use it or not, whether your kid takes it when they hand it to him or not, whether it goes home or not, whether you brought one with you or not, package open; charged. Its not even "me" paying, my kid is on state coverage, but it still bothers me how much crap is in the bills. When you're in the ER they come back and pester you time and time again for "vitals" and charge $200 or more for every instance.... look at you like you're a bad parent if you deny vitals... yet it isn't even part of the treatment protocol for my kids condition. When the ER isn't busy they always keep you extra long before you get your discharge papers; don't leave without those or you see CPS, and be sure to have your vitals taken a half dozen more times. Per his doctor he just needs his meds urgently and to be discharged; try telling that to the ER staff and you'll end the discussion with CPS. I deny scans every time I go; it has nothing to do with his protocol; but it makes money. I've thought about bringing our personal oxymeter and bp cuff with us so they lay off on the vitals. I've learned to deny everything you can and then fight it when you still get charged as the bills roll in. Its one thing when you have an ER visit once every other year... but my kid is sometimes in several times a week; the billing gets ridiculous.

$50 allergy bracelet?
$50 fall risk bracelet?
$50 id bracelet?

Come on now.

[RickyJ]

5. These folks are shocked that everything they ASKED FOR caused a charge on their bill. They asked for a ventilator, they asked for kleenex, they asked for urinal bottles, they needed tubing, etc.. Were those things supposed to materialize for free? I don't get it.



No one is shocked there is a cost associated with everything, they are shocked at the price they are charging for it, and they have right to be shocked by it because it is ridiculous. Like they said on the clip, hardly anyone ever pays that amount, that is just what they try to get from people, so in other words, they are trying to rip people off. They are taking advantage of sick people who do not know the price they are charging until later and don't really have a choice but to get the help they are recommending because their life is on the line, and that is pretty sick.

I am curious if you thought the ronpaul.com owners were trying to rip ronpaul off or not or thought they were offering him the site for a reasonable price.

[qh4dotcom]

No one is shocked there is a cost associated with everything, they are shocked at the price they are charging for it, and they have right to be shocked by it because it is ridiculous. Like they said on the clip, hardly anyone ever pays that amount, that is just what they try to get from people, so in other words, they are trying to rip people off. They are taking advantage of sick people who do not know the price they are charging until later and don't really have a choice but to get the help they are recommending because their life is on the line, and that is pretty sick.

Yep, pretty sick

Folks should be told upfront what something is going to cost them....and given the option of accepting or declining...instead of getting outrageous bills later.

[ItsTime]

Yep, pretty sick

Folks should be told upfront what something is going to cost them....and given the option of accepting or declining...instead of getting outrageous bills later.

When my daughter went in for surgery we asked and they told us the costs up front. Does anyone bother to ask?

[LibertyEagle]

No one is shocked there is a cost associated with everything, they are shocked at the price they are charging for it, and they have right to be shocked by it because it is ridiculous. Like they said on the clip, hardly anyone ever pays that amount, that is just what they try to get from people, so in other words, they are trying to rip people off. They are taking advantage of sick people who do not know the price they are charging until later and don't really have a choice but to get the help they are recommending because their life is on the line, and that is pretty sick.

+rep

[LibertyEagle]

When my daughter went in for surgery we asked and they told us the costs up front. Does anyone bother to ask?

Yes. Some damn sure do ask.

The issue is that government has created this situation. Competition has virtually been removed. Hospitals are required to treat illegal aliens and others who can't pay and are not reimbursed. So, when profit-based hospitals see an opportunity to stick someone, they damn sure do it and they stick them hard.

60 Minutes has actually run a segment about this years ago. If you have insurance that does not have negotiated rates, because you were unable to get some that does have it, hospitals will attempt to rape you and get up to TEN TIMES the amount for services as they would have gotten with negotiated insurance rates.

[MelissaWV]

No one is shocked there is a cost associated with everything, they are shocked at the price they are charging for it, and they have right to be shocked by it because it is ridiculous. Like they said on the clip, hardly anyone ever pays that amount, that is just what they try to get from people, so in other words, they are trying to rip people off. They are taking advantage of sick people who do not know the price they are charging until later and don't really have a choice but to get the help they are recommending because their life is on the line, and that is pretty sick.

I am curious if you thought the ronpaul.com owners were trying to rip ronpaul off or not or thought they were offering him the site for a reasonable price.

I stopped there, since they say that very thing in the video. They were annoyed that nothing seemed to be "included" with the room cost.

[MelissaWV]

When my daughter went in for surgery we asked and they told us the costs up front. Does anyone bother to ask?

They tend not to when there is insurance involved, which is what the case was in the video in the OP. A large number of services include the signing of a service agreement detailing that attempts will be made to bill insurance, but if the insurance denies the claim, the patient/responsible party will have to foot the bill.

* * *

To the rest, I am sure that the hospitals are just swimming in extra money from all of these "excessive" charges. They can't possibly be struggling financially. There can't be a reason for it. There are no negotiations after the fact. No, hospitals are full of sick bastards trying to steal your money and ruin you financially (so that you can't pay... which seems counterintuitive... but who needs that when you've got your torch and pitchfork?).

Which is why I'm sure none of you will ever go to one. For any reason. You wouldn't want to support the rich fatcats living large on the profits from charging individuals for care and paper cups.

* * *

Also, to the person whose child is going to the hospital over and over again, I will mention again that you'd be well-served to research pediatric options in your area, and to establish a very good relationship with the charity funds department of whatever hospital you've already got bills with. I would also bring up your concerns with someone who matters --- it seems like you're telling end-of-the-line employees what you are and are not going to provide on your own, which results in duplication. When you KNOW you're going in for something, or a loved one is, the situation is like any other purchase/service transaction.

People would, in general, prefer to get angry rather than look into the situation.

[ItsTime]

Yes. Some damn sure do ask.

The issue is that government has created this situation. Competition has virtually been removed. Hospitals are required to treat illegal aliens and others who can't pay and are not reimbursed. So, when profit-based hospitals see an opportunity to stick someone, they damn sure do it and they stick them hard.

60 Minutes has actually run a segment about this years ago. If you have insurance that does not have negotiated rates, because you were unable to get some that does have it, hospitals will attempt to rape you and get up to TEN TIMES the amount for services as they would have gotten with negotiated insurance rates.

That is illegal in NH. I suggest you contact your local reps and make it illegal in your state as well.