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View Full Version : The Free State Project...opinions?




hawkeyenick
11-23-2007, 04:12 AM
I just wanted to know what people thought about this. I really think it's a great way to make political change, and now that Dr. Paul is in the spotlight, it can be talked about to his supporters seriously.

johngr
11-23-2007, 05:21 AM
Ron Paul for Governor!

fsk
11-23-2007, 12:53 PM
I think you don't need to move. You can set up a "free state group" where you're living now.

All you need to do is find people willing to trade off-the-books with you.

ronpaulfollower999
11-23-2007, 12:56 PM
I think its a great idea.

PennCustom4RP
11-23-2007, 01:31 PM
I think you don't need to move. You can set up a "free state group" where you're living now.

All you need to do is find people willing to trade off-the-books with you.

This is exactly my thinking. While I like the Free State project idea, I am sure there are plenty of counties in each state that supporters of such a project could move to, and influence the local govt there.
Wasn't there a 'Free Town' project too? It may not have gotten off the ground.

jgmaynard
11-23-2007, 01:55 PM
The FSP is already making strides in just a few years with just a small percentage of our original goal moved so far - this is a rundown of just some of the stuff we have accomplished 2004-mid 2006:

FSP participants voted against a 7-figure spending measure ($1.4 Million) in a New Hampshire town. The measure was defeated saving taxpayers all that money. The margin of defeat was smaller than the number of FSP participants voting against it.
FSP participants lobbied and voted for a measure which would require the proceeds of a $1M+ building sale to go back to the taxpayers instead of to the school board's pockets if the building were sold. The measure passed narrowly, the margin of victory being very close to the number of FSP participants confirmed to have voted on that issue. The building has not yet been sold.

An FSP participant was appointed to the Board of Selectmen in their town as a result of being a good neighbor. That person took the simple step of asking questions at a subsequent town meeting. The result was several spending items totaling thousands of dollars being removed from the town budget.

In all (presumably including the above), Free State Blogs reports that over $10 Million in taxpayer money was saved in 2006 as a result of identifyable FSP participant activity.

A bill restricting the property rights of operators of restaurants and bars to decide their own smoking policies (HB1177 in 2006) unexpectedly passed the State House. FSP participants lobbied heavily against the bill in the Senate and the bill was killed which maintained those rights.

A bill restricting gun rights (SB44 in 2007) was met with overwhelming visible resistance, predominately by FSP participants, at the Senate committee meeting. The committee agreed, in an unusual move, to vote on the bill immediately following the hearing and voted the bill inexpedient to legislate on the spot.

A bill protecting gun rights in the event of an emergency (SB348 in 2006) was inspired by a Free State Project participant. That bill passed and was signed into law.
A bill reducing regulation on homeschoolers (HB406 in 2005 and 2006) was written by an FSP participant, lobbied for by FSP participants, and was ultimately passed into law as a direct result of the work of those people.

A bill to remove New Hampshire from the federal government's REAL ID program (HB1582 in 2006) was heavily lobbied for by FSP participants. FSP participants helped form the Granite State ID Coalition which brought together several organizations in NH, including some led by other FSP participants, to lobby for the bill. The bill passed the house and the senate committee. The bill was killed in the state senate after the federal government put pressure on the senators to kill it. Several of those state senators, as well as both U.S. House members were voted out of office in the following election. At least one candidate for NH state house won election on the no-REAL-ID platform with the help of several FSP participants.

An FSP participant has been elected to the NH State House.

FSP participants have been elected and/or appointed to several town-level offices including school board, budget committee, town selectman, planning board, and probably several others.

FSP participants cast the deciding votes in a New Hampshire town that resulted in cutting its budget by 14%.
An FSP participant on a planning board was instrumental in influencing a unanomous recommendation by the board that an onerous new zoning restriction be rejected.
FSP Participants successfully defended themselves against criminal charges intended to intimidate those people as they exercised their right to free speech.

On several occasions, FSP participants have been challenged by law enforcement while exercising the legal right to carry a firearm in New Hampshire. On every occasion, the Participants were successful in exercising that right without being found guilty of committing any crime.

FSP participants have engaged in several persuasive acts of civil disobedience which have publicly highlighted the injustice in several bad laws. Those acts have been widely reported on both in New Hampshire and elsewhere around the nation. Discussion and planning about this type of activity, and much more, happens at New Hampshire busiest web forum, hosted on FSP-participant operated NHFree.com.

FSP participants founded the Liberty Scholarship Fund, a charitable organization designed to help meet the educational needs of parents who desire more educational freedom but cannot afford it. That organization now enables several families per year to substantially increase their educational freedom by distributing thousands of dollars per year of scholorships to them.

FSP participants founded a lobbying organization, the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance, which supports pro-freedom candidates, opposes anti-freedom candidates, rates all bills which go before the legislature for their stance and impact on liberty, lobbies accordingly on some of those bills, and rates all of the legislators based on their votes. In the 2006 elections 75 of 131 endorsed candidates won election.

FSP participants founded a pro-freedom radio show called Free Talk Live, which has become one of the most successful podcasts on the net, and is also syndicated on several radio stations around the country reaching millions of listeners. Free Talk Live is consistently ranked in the top 5 podcasts at podcast alley. Its hosts moved to New Hampshire in 2006.

FSP participants founded a free pro-freedom biweekly newspaper called the Keene Free Press. It is available online and in print in the Monadnock region with a print circulation of over 5,000 copies per issue.

FSP participants, both individually and on behalf of pro-freedom groups, are gaining positive name recognition and respect within the government. At Porc Fest, activists from several organizations related many anecdotes about state representatives not only being well aware of Free Staters, but actively soliciting their opinions and assistance on issues. They know who we are, and are paying attention to this growing cadre of libertarian-minded activists.



If anyone is interested in learning more, visit the Free State Project Website (http://www.freestateproject.org).

jblosser
11-23-2007, 02:05 PM
I think it's a great idea; I was initially pretty skeptical but they've got unquestionable success so far. My wife and I will most likely be willing to move once the FSP makes NH freer than TX on the issues that matter the most to us (right now TX still wins and it doesn't make a lot of sense to move from more free to less free for the sake of freedom, but I do say "when" and not "if" because I believe they'll get it there). Operation Live Free or Die almost got us there now regardless but we'd be moving permanently and can't do it that fast right now, plus all the involvement I have in the local grassroots here leaves me fairly obligated to stay put right now.

Yes you can do these same things in your own state and town but WILL you. The main advantage of the FSP is these people already gave up major parts of their lives for freedom, they aren't going to hem and haw about joining you at a city council meeting and standing up for something, that's the entire reason they moved. You don't get that locally with the people you've had there for years.

My biggest beef remains that they're in the lion's back yard but if we all pull this campaign off the lion won't live there after next year.

jgmaynard
11-23-2007, 02:10 PM
We've been in the Lion's back yard for 100 years now. We still have no income tax, no sales tax, no adult seat belt law, no helmet law, the smallest governemnt in the US, we have the lowest tax burden in the continental US, we're an open-carry state with must-issue CCW system, we have an Executive Council system which allows three people to overide ANY spending bill over $5000, I could keep going on.
What is it specifically that makes you so much freer in TX that you would give up that opportunity?

JM

FrankRep
11-23-2007, 02:13 PM
I love the Free State Project idea.

http://www.FreeStateProject.org/

PennCustom4RP
11-23-2007, 02:15 PM
As stated by jgmaynard, All of these accomplishments made in the FSP should be applauded, yet I personally think the greatest obstacle is still the 'move' to NH for most. The FSP should be used as a model of what can be done, and 'seed' this idea everywhere, thereby spreading this freedom across the land.
just my 02

freedomissexy
11-24-2007, 02:08 AM
I've been enchanted with the notion of the Free State project since I first heard of it. As soon as I'm done with school I plan to move.

princessredtights
11-24-2007, 10:13 AM
Since my "awakening" earlier this year, I have been checking this out and amseriously considering participating (just not for a while - ducks in a row and all that jazz) ... I live in a nanny state and it really sucks! I love our mild weather, the natural beauty but geez! the nanny state mentality sucks ...

constituent
11-24-2007, 10:44 AM
I think you don't need to move. You can set up a "free state group" where you're living now.

All you need to do is find people willing to trade off-the-books with you.

exactly.


just looking back over history makes me assume trap (intentional or not).

there is a great tendency amongst these sorts of movements to start
pointing fingers, squealing, segmenting and turning (each other in for anything)
into each others' rivals.

i hope this doesn't happen and wish everyone involved the best, please set a good
example and stick together.

constituent
11-24-2007, 10:45 AM
Since my "awakening" earlier this year, I have been checking this out and amseriously considering participating (just not for a while - ducks in a row and all that jazz) ... I live in a nanny state and it really sucks! I love our mild weather, the natural beauty but geez! the nanny state mentality sucks ...

leave the city.

everywhere is a free state, if you let it be.

pcosmar
11-24-2007, 10:53 AM
I like the Idea of the FSP, but I have land here that I could not sell and move.
I think working in our own areas to return Freedom to each state will be most practical for most of us.
I do keep a eye on what is going on there as a model.
I would love to invite people to the UP of Michigan, but our economy sucks, and we have harsh winters. You have to be tough to live here.

constituent
11-24-2007, 10:56 AM
I like the Idea of the FSP, but I have land here that I could not sell and move.
I think working in our own areas to return Freedom to each state will be most practical for most of us.
I do keep a eye on what is going on there as a model.
I would love to invite people to the UP of Michigan, but our economy sucks, and we have harsh winters. You have to be tough to live here.

let's get some land in texas too and start a nomadic tribe.

pcosmar
11-24-2007, 11:00 AM
Is is beautiful here if your tough enough.
http://jamadots.com/~pcosmar/photos/

http://jamadots.com/~pcosmar/photos/photogallery/89_winter_driveway.jpeg

noxagol
11-24-2007, 01:20 PM
I am planning to possibly run for state rep here in Illinois. I am also signed up for the FSP and want to move their.

d_goddard
11-24-2007, 01:33 PM
As stated by jgmaynard, All of these accomplishments made in the FSP should be applauded

Here's a partial list from 2006: http://freestateblogs.net/victories06
I'll put the 2007 list together near the end of December.


the greatest obstacle is still the 'move' to NH
It's the biggest hurdle... and our greatest asset.
By the time people move here, they are committed to make a difference.
Once you've uprooted your life and moved for freedom, as I and hundreds of others have done, it really forces you to get off your butt and be active -- more than ever before. Especially since we're surrounded by similarly active people.


I think working in our own areas to return Freedom to each state will be most practical for most of us.
I hate to put it like this, but:

That's exactly what the Libertarian Party has been trying for 35 years.

Does it look like it's working?

constituent
11-24-2007, 02:07 PM
That's exactly what the Libertarian Party has been trying for 35 years.

Does it look like it's working?

more with each passing day (and i'm not a member of the libertarian party).

d_goddard
11-24-2007, 10:45 PM
more with each passing day (and i'm not a member of the libertarian party).

A lot of people felt that was the case back in the early '80s, too.
See Milton Friedman's prefaces to both editions of _Free to Choose_ -- by the 2nd edition, he's breathless over how much Freedom is becoming popular in the USA.
Reagan was elected, and his first inaugural speech had that great line, "Government is not the solution to the problem; Government is the problem."

I know it may seem pessimistic, but I'm just using history as a guide.

jblosser
11-27-2007, 09:35 PM
We've been in the Lion's back yard for 100 years now. We still have no income tax, no sales tax, no adult seat belt law, no helmet law, the smallest governemnt in the US, we have the lowest tax burden in the continental US, we're an open-carry state with must-issue CCW system, we have an Executive Council system which allows three people to overide ANY spending bill over $5000, I could keep going on.
What is it specifically that makes you so much freer in TX that you would give up that opportunity?

JM

Sorry, forgot to look for replies.

If I didn't have kids the things you list would probably be the most important to me, but the biggest issues to many families right now are the ones that have to do with parental freedom. Having the state in your face is always a problem, but when it involves them telling you how to raise your kids it's about as bad as it gets. The choice becomes either to let the state tell you how to raise your kids -- that is, let the state decide what tools they take into their future -- or go against the state and risk the beast that is CPS if you have a nosy neighbor or someone who gets a wild hair and makes "that" phone call and turns the eye of sauron in your direction. Seat belt laws don't compare.

With that in mind, if I compare TX and NH on some common parental freedom issues, I find TX is currently better. One major example, home schooling. Compare
http://www.hslda.org/laws/default.asp?State=TX with http://www.hslda.org/laws/default.asp?State=NH

Note all those "none" entries for requirements in TX. Those aren't omissions -- TX does not regulate either private schools or home schools (which under the law are private schools). In comparison note that NH has mandatory record keeping and testing. These may seem minor but time after time in our history these minor things are used to extert control. It's the entire reason the "shall issue" you cited becomes such an issue for CCW licenses. For lack of a better term, TX is a "shall issue" state when it comes to homeschooling. NH is not. As one example where this is relevant consider the common "socialization" attack against home schoolers. While it is mostly bunk, it is something parents have to work at, and many states make it harder by limiting how much groups of home schooling families can interact with each other without tripping an even more onerous set of "private school" regulations and reporting requirements. In TX it just isn't an issue; we're already a private school by defaut and we can do all the cooperative teaching and shared lessons we want. (Note, I don't know the specific status of coop teaching in NH right now; it could be perfectly fine, the point is that the kinds of regulations they have right now have often led to local abuse and further overregulating.)

RedLightning
11-27-2007, 10:54 PM
How is NH on gun rights? Are there any permits needed to buy certain firearms?

d_goddard
11-28-2007, 09:31 PM
How is NH on gun rights? Are there any permits needed to buy certain firearms?

Partial answers below. More details at this NH Gun FAQ:
http://freestateblogs.net/nhgunfaq



Q: What do I have to do to buy a gun in New Hampshire?
A: Go to a gun store, a gun show, or a private party selling a gun, and give them money.

Q: How do I get a license or a permit to buy a gun?
A: You donít.

Q: How do I register my guns?
A: You don't.


Lastly, see the background description and ESPECIALLY the videos of what happens when one elected gun-grabber tries to pass even a small dose of gun legislation (hint: we packed HUNDREDS of people into the hall, they had no choice but kill the bill!)

http://freestateblogs.net/sb44

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8047016128665007678&hl=en

SeekLiberty
11-29-2007, 01:08 AM
I just wanted to know what people thought about this. I really think it's a great way to make political change, and now that Dr. Paul is in the spotlight, it can be talked about to his supporters seriously.

They are awesome. Free State Wyoming and Free State New Hampshire are great examples.

- SL

jgmaynard
11-29-2007, 01:51 AM
NH ROCKS on gun rights, and our homeschooling laws are gettting better, thanks to the Free State Project. One of our members was responsible for writing the bill and pushing it through to take away most regulations that were there.
We'll take a second pass by that one soon enough. I'm sure there are people working on it now.

JM

paulpwns
11-29-2007, 03:48 AM
I'm moving after I graduate