Illegal Immigration Poll

[Southerner]

I am surprised by the changing opinions on illegal immigration, as in what part of "illegal" do you not get? I suppose many are willing to change their views IF they believe the MSM and others who say that the GOP can't win without those who are in favor of amnesty. So anyway, please pick one of the following that comes closest to your feelings on immigration.

[Brett85]

Where's the poll?

[misean]

The traditional, pure libertarian position is for open borders. I'm not saying I agree, but the support for amnesty is consistent with being a libertarian. I don't think it has anything to do with people here caring about whether the GOP gets votes.

[Southerner]

The traditional, pure libertarian position is for open borders. I'm not saying I agree, but the support for amnesty is consistent with being a libertarian.

That seems to be the Libertarian position, although it sounds more Liberal to me. Frankly, my feeling is that when one breaks a law, they should be punished, not rewarded.

[ronpaulfollower999]

I am surprised by the changing opinions on illegal immigration, as in what part of "illegal" do you not get? I suppose many are willing to change their views IF they believe the MSM and others who say that the GOP can't win without those who are in favor of amnesty. So anyway, please pick one of the following that comes closest to your feelings on immigration.

There are a lot of illegal things that are victimless crimes. Just because it's illegal, doesn't mean it's wrong.

[radiofriendly]

Seems like the constitutional conservative/libertarian(ish) position is if we have no welfare state then immigration should be a very open and welcoming process. (Perhaps even open borders). I don't see that option...

I'm open to
open borders if we get rid of the welfare state.

[Havax]

Execute them for not bursting out of their mother's tomb on the correct area of stardust!

[Southerner]

Seems like the constitutional conservative/libertarian(ish) position is if we have no welfare state then immigration should be a very open and welcoming process. (Perhaps even open borders). I don't see that option...

I'm open to
open borders if we get rid of the welfare state.

Sorry I neglected that option. Also sorry I made "execution" the punishment for being in the country illegally a 3rd time, I should have saved that for 4th offense. ;-) While I agree with Libertarians on MANY issues, open borders is certainly not one of them. In fact I agree with Dr. Roy Beck on numbersUSA in that we need to reduce our LEGAL immigration numbers back to pre 1965 levels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE

[whoisjohngalt]

There are a lot of illegal things that are victimless crimes. Just because it's illegal, doesn't mean it's wrong.

I voted for the first option so I certainly can't be characterized as hard line on illegal immigration, but I also think its completely incorrect to characterize it as a victimless crime. Taxpayers who contribute to welfare that illegal immigrants receive or people who lose out on a job because its much easier to employ an illegal alien under the table are certainly victimized by rampant illegal immigration. It's a property crime with a victim, but we must not be absurdly impractical in dealing with it.

Open borders with no welfare state is the libertarian position. It's a tough call since there is no hope of even reducing the welfare state. I have no faith in Rand's or any other plan.

[MelissaWV]

Seems like the constitutional conservative/libertarian(ish) position is if we have no welfare state then immigration should be a very open and welcoming process. (Perhaps even open borders). I don't see that option...

I'm open to
open borders if we get rid of the welfare state.

This, and yeah it's not an option, so I didn't vote.

[Carson]

Amazing how many people have been manipulated into playing the illegal aliens into the hands of the criminals in business by the mind games of the criminals in government.

I remember when if a business truly needed someone they brought them in through legal channels.

Now with the shift to a criminal based economic system anyone they can trick into coming in is put on the payroll while and honest worker is shifted off. Not only is it cheaper per hour, they are able to undermine the honest mans social services and medical facilities.

Is it any wonder our world is crumbling? The criminals economy is going gangbusters.


Ha! Ha!

They used to stand tall here working along side of us for the same wages and benefits.



P.S. If you were able to counterfeit up what ever amount of money you wanted, what would you create with it?

[Brett85]

I'm very much in favor of secure borders, but I don't think the GOP can take the position of deporting the illegal immigrants who are already here and expect to win future elections. It's not possible to win elections simply by winning the white vote anymore. The GOP has to get a higher percentage of the Hispanic vote, and they're probably going to have to support something like Rand is proposing: Secure the border first and take a vote on it in Congress for six straight years before the path to citizenship begins, and then when it's verified that the border is secure make the illegals who are here get in the back of the line behind the legal immigrants who are coming here. That would be a more "hispanic friendly" message that could win elections but would also mean that we would have a secure border.

[Keith and stuff]

Frankly, my feeling is that when one breaks a law, they should be punished, not rewarded.
In all fairness, the majority of laws are bad. They should either be abolished or ignored.

[beaven]

I believe that our nation should be open to all immigrants who are non-violent and who do not carry a communicable disease, no quotas. But just being here wouldn't qualify one for citizenship. One should naturally take a test to qualify for citizenship and demonstrate that they will be a good American.

[NIU Students for Liberty]

One should naturally take a test to qualify for citizenship and demonstrate that they will be a good American.

Define "good American" because if that's going to be the litmus test, you might as well deport the majority of American citizens already living here.

[The Free Hornet]

I am surprised by the changing opinions on illegal immigration, as in what part of "illegal" do you not get? I suppose many are willing to change their views IF they believe the MSM and others who say that the GOP can't win without those who are in favor of amnesty. So anyway, please pick one of the following that comes closest to your feelings on immigration.

Fuck you Frank (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Fuck%20you%20Frank). You're the illegal anyway. Of course, it used to be a jury of 12 decided illegality not internet trolls.

I didn't vote in your poll BTW. Here is why the closest options suck:


We cannot deport illegal aliens, and must give them a pathway to citizenship.

I think exile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exile) might be a good alternative to "community offense" crimes like drugs. And by "alternative" I mean it is better than jail but not likely as good as leaving people alone. In that context, I see no reason why we give "pathway"s to anybody. Or why we "must"?!


We should welcome all who come here, legally or illegally.

Well, I wouldn't welcome you and I know nothing of your legal status. No, we shouldn't welcome everybody but that gives me no right to prevent you from getting your cousin or wife here.

My point would be, 'government's failure to enforce its laws should not burden the citizens of this country'. I would be happier with a system whereby once someone is picked up by local, the Feds have 6 months to deport that person or that locality is free to treat them as de facto legal. Not a path to "citizenship" but maybe a path to "more freedom".

The illegal immigration debate reminds too much of the illegal drug debate where the enforcement side wants illegality to continue so they can play 'catch and release' and all the other BS. And TPTB like having an underclass to replace their slaves.

Anyway, your poll options lack creativity and do not reflect the fundamental distrust we ought to have for both the police and the progressive state.

[Carson]

The only way the GOP wins is when they tally the votes?

[The Free Hornet]

I remember when if a business truly needed someone they brought them in through legal channels.

I remember when people brought themselves to the business because they are looking for a job. I remember because... that is damn near every week here.

You must remember a time when businesses beg for workers and fly them in from around the country or bribe Congress for high-tech foreigners to keep the locals in line (and the foreigners on a leash).

Of course my industry isn't glamorous and we're not doing biotech research. I'd rather live in a world where someone can show up, do a day's labor, and get paid cash without ever giving up their name. That world is gone. Thanks.

[Southerner]

I remember when people brought themselves to the business because they are looking for a job. I remember because... that is damn near every week here.

You must remember a time when businesses beg for workers and fly them in from around the country or bribe Congress for high-tech foreigners to keep the locals in line (and the foreigners on a leash).

Of course my industry isn't glamorous and we're not doing biotech research. I'd rather live in a world where someone can show up, do a day's labor, and get paid cash without ever giving up their name. That world is gone. Thanks.

I dunno, Illegal Ali... errrr "undocumented workers" do exactly that, each and every day.

[kcchiefs6465]

Execute them on the third offense? I haven't checked the poll yet but I'd hope no one sees that as the answer.

ETA: Does someone want to own up to that and explain their position, or should we just assume it's a troll?

[Southerner]

We spend BILLIONS of dollars every year, catching, deporting, and re-catching and re-deporting.... I can understand that maybe some of you are not in favor of the death penalty for repeat offenders, but how about 10 years in a hard labor camp for those who have been caught and deported 3 or more times?

What we do now is a joke.

[Southerner]

Yes, I would be in favor of EXECUTING repeat offenders. Don't worry it will NEVER happen. But does that make me a "troll"? Hardly. Harrumph. ETA:"owning up to that"

[Brett85]

It seems kind of ridiculous to execute someone for a crime other than murder.

[The Free Hornet]

We spend BILLIONS of dollars every year, catching, deporting, and re-catching and re-deporting.... I can understand that maybe some of you are not in favor of the death penalty for repeat offenders, but how about 10 years in a hard labor camp for those who have been caught and deported 3 or more times?

What we do now is a joke.


Yes, I would be in favor of EXECUTING repeat offenders. Don't worry it will NEVER happen. But does that make me a "troll"? Hardly. Harrumph. ETA:"owning up to that"

End welfare. End food stamps. End EMTALA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act).

You bemoan a problem ("spend BILLIONS of dollars") when, to TPTB, that problem is their solution, their goal. They don't want these things fixed.

Things that aren't broken don't generate the revenue they crave.


http://www.pmthink.com/MaytagAcquisitionPMO01.jpg

[erowe1]

That seems to be the Libertarian position, although it sounds more Liberal to me. Frankly, my feeling is that when one breaks a law, they should be punished, not rewarded.

Are there some special people out there who get to make up laws that we should get punished when we break them like that? They can just tell us to give them whatever we have that they want, and if we don't do whatever they say it's ok for them to punish us?

[erowe1]

We spend BILLIONS of dollars every year, catching, deporting, and re-catching and re-deporting.... I can understand that maybe some of you are not in favor of the death penalty for repeat offenders, but how about 10 years in a hard labor camp for those who have been caught and deported 3 or more times?

What we do now is a joke.

So just don't catch and deport them. Nobody has any right to do that in the first place anyway.

[erowe1]

I dunno, Illegal Ali... errrr "undocumented workers" do exactly that, each and every day.

That's a good thing, isn't it?

[amy31416]

Don't want "illegal aliens" here? Go do the jobs that they do, for the wages that they make, under the table. It's probably a more ethical existence than you have right now.

And while you're at it, tell the "pro-lifers" to all register to be potential adoptive parents and the pro-war folks to enlist and be willing to pay for the equipment needed to kill people.

This is right-wing big gov't at it's most blatant. I know it's constitutional for the Fed gov to monitor the borders, but who should pay for it? I don't have a problem with Mexicans, legally here or not. Then again, I don't live in a Mexican border state--let those states handle the financing, and I'll stick to keeping those dirty Canadians out of the country, eh?

[Origanalist]

Execute them for not bursting out of their mother's tomb on the correct area of stardust!

That makes no sense..............

[MelissaWV]

That makes no sense..............

Execute them for not bursting out of their mother's tomb on the correct area of stardust!

=

Execute them for not bursting out of their mother's womb on the correct area of stardust (earth)!

[devil21]

I picked 2 and 3. You go to the end of the line but I recognize that rounding up and deporting the millions of illegals in the country just isn't realistic. The border should be enforced much tighter and I have no problem with rounding up and deporting those crossing illegally.

[Origanalist]

Are there some special people out there who get to make up laws that we should get punished when we break them like that? They can just tell us to give them whatever we have that they want, and if we don't do whatever they say it's ok for them to punish us?

Yes, there are. They're in the government. (sweet gig huh?)

[alucard13mmfmj]

They need to go back to the end of the line OR we put legal immigrants up in front asap.

[Origanalist]

Execute them for not bursting out of their mother's tomb on the correct area of stardust!

=

Execute them for not bursting out of their mother's womb on the correct area of stardust (earth)!

Except they didn't burst out of their mothers womb here. If we are talking about the children of illegals that would apply, maybe that's what he meant?

Nvrmnd, I'm slow again today...................

[Origanalist]

Don't want "illegal aliens" here? Go do the jobs that they do, for the wages that they make, under the table. It's probably a more ethical existence than you have right now.

And while you're at it, tell the "pro-lifers" to all register to be potential adoptive parents and the pro-war folks to enlist and be willing to pay for the equipment needed to kill people.

This is right-wing big gov't at it's most blatant. I know it's constitutional for the Fed gov to monitor the borders, but who should pay for it? I don't have a problem with Mexicans, legally here or not. Then again, I don't live in a Mexican border state--let those states handle the financing, and I'll stick to keeping those dirty Canadians out of the country, eh?

I say nuke Canada, they make me nervous. What with their better economy and all......

[kcchiefs6465]

We spend BILLIONS of dollars every year, catching, deporting, and re-catching and re-deporting.... I can understand that maybe some of you are not in favor of the death penalty for repeat offenders, but how about 10 years in a hard labor camp for those who have been caught and deported 3 or more times?

What we do now is a joke.
I'd simply say we have enough slaves.

[bolil]

I say nuke Canada, they make me nervous. What with their better economy and all......

I second this proposal, looking for a third. Preemptive nuclear strike on cehnehdeh is the only thing we can do to resolve this issue.

[Okie RP fan]

The biggest problems with immigrants today is that they are being catered to and refuse to learn English and assimilate in any way, shape or form. I'm not saying strip away your entire cultural identity, but, don't come over here acting like you own the dang place...

We need to deport illegal criminals and establish some sort of path to citizenship (only after proving the ability to work and pay taxes like the rest of us).

[NIU Students for Liberty]

The biggest problems with immigrants today is that they are being catered to and refuse to learn English and assimilate in any way, shape or form. I'm not saying strip away your entire cultural identity, but, don't come over here acting like you own the dang place...

So don't talk to them. Problem solved.

[fr33]

The biggest problems with immigrants today is that they are being catered to and refuse to learn English and assimilate in any way, shape or form. I'm not saying strip away your entire cultural identity, but, don't come over here acting like you own the dang place...

We need to deport illegal criminals and establish some sort of path to citizenship (only after proving the ability to work and pay taxes like the rest of us).

That's ridiculous. They are assimilating like any other group. I still live in a predominately German community btw. It's been that way for over 100 years.

[fr33]

There should be an option in the poll to cut off welfare then open the border.

[alucard13mmfmj]

if anything, we need to get legal immigrants on the fast track to citizenship imo.. just so we can get more illegals into the legal process.

[Origanalist]

There should be an option in the poll to cut off welfare then open the border.

Sorry, no can do.

[VoluntaryAmerican]

Two psychopaths voted for this poll apparently.

[XTreat]

I dont like any of these options.

[erowe1]

Yes, there are. They're in the government. (sweet gig huh?)

Yeah, I'm familiar with them. I just thought those were the bad guys.

[whoisjohngalt]

Don't want "illegal aliens" here? Go do the jobs that they do, for the wages that they make, under the table. It's probably a more ethical existence than you have right now.

That's a lot easier said than done. Do you really think that employers will take the chance on an English speaking employee with a social security number if they want to pay someone under the table? Said person can go to authorities and report their illegal actions if things ever turn sour. Meanwhile they know that there is no chance of someone who isn't here legally and can't speak the language reporting them (not that anyone would listen if they did). I'm not saying it never happens because it certainly does, but to act like its as easy as being willing to work the same jobs for the same wages.... that's just wrong.

[Michelangelo]

For full disclosure I am an illegal immigrant.

That said I support open borders, but not open citizenship. We're not going to end the welfare state anytime soon, but it should be possible to make the system in such a way as to exclude us from being able to access welfare programs. I know that right now illegal aliens are, with the Amish and a few others, exempt from Obamacare. It's doable.

I've never quite understood why any libertarian thinks closing the borders will work. Will increasing efforts on the War on Drugs make it successful? No, of course not. It will only further increase black market activity. Similarly trying to close the borders will just increase the amount of violence involved in migration.

As for speeding up the process for those who came here legally. Sure, is there anyone who is against processing things for legal migrants quicker?

What I don't get is this fascination some people have with English being the sole language of the USA. Spain is a historical language of the southwest. I can sympathize with New Englanders who want to retain English dominance there, but I don't get how you can be from the southwest and not be bilingual in Spanish and English. Similarly I don't get how someone near Quebec isn't bilingual in French and English. Simply allow a free market in languages and things will work themselves out. Might some areas prefer Spanish over English? Possibly, but if that is the will of the market who are we to say otherwise?

There doesn't have to be a 'Department of Culture' to make sure there is a single uniform American culture.

[erowe1]

That said I support open borders, but not open citizenship.

+1

[Southerner]

I've never quite understood why any libertarian thinks closing the borders will work. Will increasing efforts on the War on Drugs make it successful? No, of course not. It will only further increase black market activity. Similarly trying to close the borders will just increase the amount of violence involved in migration.



Which is why there should be HARSH penalties for those caught here illegally repeatedly. Not prison, but work camps in snake filled swamps, logging with axes perhaps.

[erowe1]

Which is why there should be HARSH penalties for those caught here illegally repeatedly. Not prison, but work camps in snake filled swamps, logging with axes perhaps.

What if we made it so that what's illegal immigration today wouldn't be illegal any more? Then we wouldn't have to pay for all the penalties you want.

Also, why do you use the phrase "here illegally"? Is there some law that makes it illegal for someone merely to be here?

[Southerner]

What if we made it so that what's illegal immigration today wouldn't be illegal any more? Then we wouldn't have to pay for all the penalties you want.

Also, why do you use the phrase "here illegally"? Is there some law that makes it illegal for someone merely to be here?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnTmBjk-M0c

[erowe1]

It's good to be clear and honest about your position.

If you pretend that you're only against illegal immigration, but then it turns out that you wouldn't support making it legal, then it's really not just illegal immigration you're against, but immigration in general. The fact that it's illegal isn't what makes it bad. You think it's bad anyway, and that's why you want it to be illegal.

It's like if you criticized "illegal draft dodging" and "illegal tax protesting." All that would really mean is that you support the draft and taxes.

[Michelangelo]

Which is why there should be HARSH penalties for those caught here illegally repeatedly. Not prison, but work camps in snake filled swamps, logging with axes perhaps.

Should those caught with possession of marijuana be sent to work camps? Do you believe that sending drug offenders to work camps would 'win' the War on Drugs?

The act of migration is by itself no crime. So long as there is demand for people to come here or demand for migrant labour then we will see migration. Adding work camps or taller fences won't end it. It will merely increase the amount of violence involved.

A migrant must find work, a home, and enter into countless other voluntary relationships in order to migrate here. Why do you believe you have the moral authority to decide what relationships others get into? As long as the relationship is voluntary there isn't any room to intervene.

You are free to not associate with illegal aliens, in the same manner that you are free to not associate with people who are homosexual, or Greek descent, or who support the Lakers. If there was a demand, in the economic sense, for people to not associate with illegal aliens I am sure we'd see businesses provide for that option. We might see stickers on fruit saying that it was grown on a farm where all the workers were US citizens or legal migrants. Curiously I've yet to see such stickers.

You are not however free to intervene in what third parties do. If Sally from down the street wants to hire an illegal alien to do yard work, that is the business of Sally and any illegals who are willing to do the work. It isn't your business. It isn't Obama's business. Nor is it your business if Sally wants to marry an illegal.

You can refuse to attend the wedding. You can refuse to hire the illegal's yard services. You are not however free to get a gun and force Sally to stop associating with someone.

[EBounding]

"Back of the line behind legal immigrants, but pathway to citizenship."

I chose this one, but really we just need a temporary worker program, not just a "pathway to citizenship". If you want free trade, it goes for both goods and labor. Most illegal immigrants come here to work and send money back home. If they felt free to go back and forth across the boarder for work, they probably wouldn't stay here that long.

Ideally, we wouldn't have welfare and there would be no reason for the angst other than xenophobia. But we don't, so I think the temporary worker program is a better solution.

[Southerner]

I agree on the temporary worker program. I am not against immigration, but I do think we need to go back to pre-1965 immigration levels. see h xxx s://www.numbersusa.com/content/learn/about/what-numbersusa-all-about.html

"And Mexico has a law that is no different from Arizona's that empowers local police to check the immigration documents of people suspected of not being in the country legally.

"There (in the United States), they'll deport you," Hector Vázquez, an illegal immigrant from Honduras, said as he rested in a makeshift camp with other migrants under a highway bridge in Tultitlán. "In Mexico they'll probably let you go, but they'll beat you up and steal everything you've got first."

h xxp://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/2010-05-25-mexico-migrants_N.htm

[Confederate]

There are a lot of illegal things that are victimless crimes. Just because it's illegal, doesn't mean it's wrong.

Of course it does, otherwise it wouldn't be illegal! Duh!

[Michelangelo]

I agree on the temporary worker program. I am not against immigration, but I do think we need to go back to pre-1965 immigration levels. see h xxx s://www.numbersusa.com/content/learn/about/what-numbersusa-all-about.html

"And Mexico has a law that is no different from Arizona's that empowers local police to check the immigration documents of people suspected of not being in the country legally.

"There (in the United States), they'll deport you," Hector Vázquez, an illegal immigrant from Honduras, said as he rested in a makeshift camp with other migrants under a highway bridge in Tultitlán. "In Mexico they'll probably let you go, but they'll beat you up and steal everything you've got first."

h xxp://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/2010-05-25-mexico-migrants_N.htm

The Mexican government sucks. The actions of the Mexican government should not be construed to represent the desire or wishes of the Mexican people though. The USA government is off killing foreigners by the boat load, but I like to think that most Americans are against that. The principle of open borders should apply to Mexico as much as it should apply to the USA. Both countries would benefit by allowing the free movement of people.


The problem with temporary worker programs is that all too often they are poorly thought out. Many of them place caps that simply aren't enough to meet with demand. Others are too costly in terms of application fees and/or wait times. Then there are those that give no grace period when switching between jobs. Just yuck. The Cato Institute (http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/how-make-guest-worker-visas-work) does a pretty good job on the issue of worker visas.

As for Numbers USA... I can never over state my dislike of Malthus' legacy. There is no over population problem. Technology is more than capable of ensuring an increased food supply. There is a welfare-warfare state problem; especially in regards to regulations on housing. Get rid of rent control and zoning laws and we'd quickly see the market provide for the housing of people more efficiently.

[beaven]

Define "good American" because if that's going to be the litmus test, you might as well deport the majority of American citizens already living here.

A good citizen would be similar to a good juror. Additionally they would be educated in concepts of liberty & justice especially as the founders perceived these subjects + education on natural rights and natural law. No test would be perfect.

[KrokHead]

Immigration isn't the problem, it's welfare. Almost any American, here legally, born here, illegal, whatever manages to get on social programs. You cut the head off that snake and there is no immigration problem minus possible national security issues due to our foreign policy.

[erowe1]

No test would be perfect.

I agree. Having no test would be perfect.

[Carole]

Not enough options on the poll. It needs a choice to remove them from all social programs, schools, and unpaid hospital care, and no birthright citizenship. I could vote for that one.

Illegals would then self-deport. Yet the ones who come legally could still get in and abide by our "existing" immigration laws, i.e., learn English and pass the required citizenship tests as required by law.

[erowe1]

Not enough options on the poll. It needs a choice to remove them from all social programs, schools, and unpaid hospital care, and no birthright citizenship. I could vote for that one.

Illegals would then self-deport.

I'd support that too. But as long as we're allowed to hire them, they'd continue to come and wouldn't self-deport. The only way to control the population the way the Numbers USA folks want to do is by burdening all of us with totally unethical laws, which is why those folks demand those things and aren't satisfied with solutions that just shrink government.

And really, the last option on the poll includes what you said.

[Zippyjuan]

That seems to be the Libertarian position, although it sounds more Liberal to me. Frankly, my feeling is that when one breaks a law, they should be punished, not rewarded.

Then let's expand the police state to round them up and check IDs on everybody to make sure they belong here and if they can't prove the do kick then out. Lost your ID? Win a free trip to Mexico. We could conduct raids on businessess too to see if they are hiring illegal workers. Would that be libertarian?

[otherone]

Funny RPF posters are funny. How many of us would love to be "undocumented" Americans? Would you give up your citizenship to live here off the grid?

[BAllen]

Eliminate minimum wage, and all welfare food stamp benefits. They would be gone.

[jabowery]

Sort proponents of political theories into governments that test them before there is bloodshed between "libertarians".

[Ender]

From my POV (Cherokee) everyone here is an illegal immigrant.

Your mob took the land from my mob and now you set arbitrary rules on what is an "illegal immigrant".

All immigrants have been hated by the US ruling mob.

Early in the formation of the country, it was the Jews; mid 1800's it was the Catholics and the Irish; late 1800's it was the Chinese with screams that they were taking jobs from "real" Americans. Now it's the Mexicans and any other brown skins.

Let me tell you, I'd take a Mexican worker any day over most Americans. Why? Because they actually know how to WORK.

THE ANSWER IS:

NO FEDERAL WELFARE; WELCOME EVERYONE.

The economy would flourish and America could actually be what she was meant to be in the first place.

[alucard13mmfmj]

From my POV (Cherokee) everyone here is an illegal immigrant.

Your mob took the land from my mob and now you set arbitrary rules on what is an "illegal immigrant".

All immigrants have been hated by the US ruling mob.

Early in the formation of the country, it was the Jews; mid 1800's it was the Catholics and the Irish; late 1800's it was the Chinese with screams that they were taking jobs from "real" Americans. Now it's the Mexicans and any other brown skins.

Let me tell you, I'd take a Mexican worker any day over most Americans. Why? Because they actually know how to WORK.

THE ANSWER IS:

NO FEDERAL WELFARE; WELCOME EVERYONE.

The economy would flourish and America could actually be what she was meant to be in the first place.

Unfortunately, whoever is going to run on that platform will never get elected. =|

[MelissaWV]

From my POV (Cherokee) everyone here is an illegal immigrant.

Your mob took the land from my mob and now you set arbitrary rules on what is an "illegal immigrant".

All immigrants have been hated by the US ruling mob.

Early in the formation of the country, it was the Jews; mid 1800's it was the Catholics and the Irish; late 1800's it was the Chinese with screams that they were taking jobs from "real" Americans. Now it's the Mexicans and any other brown skins.

Let me tell you, I'd take a Mexican worker any day over most Americans. Why? Because they actually know how to WORK.

THE ANSWER IS:

NO FEDERAL WELFARE; WELCOME EVERYONE.

The economy would flourish and America could actually be what she was meant to be in the first place.

Of course, the peace-loving Natives had been arguing and generally living like civilized folks (complete with mass migrations, conquering other tribes, being at war, opening trade routes, etc.) for quite a long time. Odds are that the land was already "stolen" a dozen times over before the alleged discovery of the New World.

[Ender]

Of course, the peace-loving Natives had been arguing and generally living like civilized folks (complete with mass migrations, conquering other tribes, being at war, opening trade routes, etc.) for quite a long time. Odds are that the land was already "stolen" a dozen times over before the alleged discovery of the New World.

AHHH...AN EXPERT IN US PUBLIC EDUCATION HISTORY 101.

If you want to know some real Indian history, I will be glad to oblige. :)

[MelissaWV]

AHHH...AN EXPERT IN US PUBLIC EDUCATION HISTORY 101.

If you want to know some real Indian history, I will be glad to oblige. :)

I was speaking broadly of the entire continent, and not specifically of Cherokee history.

And no, the line in public schools is that all the "Native Americans" (but teacher how were they Native Americans before it was even named America?) were all one big glorious hippy earth-loving group of brown-skinned part-naked people living in teepees and duped by the invading White Man's trinkets and smallpox. Basically, you're all supposed to look like the weeping brave in the litter commercial. Oh and you wear oodles of feathers and your loincloth, but little else, and you have names mostly consisting of a verb and a noun (regardless of how they sound together) and you're totally all in touch with your same group of ancestors and you have glossy black hair that you mostly wear in pigtails. In other words, the standard public school textbook is that there really weren't nations at all. That the natives were one big vague group that was just waiting around playing happily in paradise until the whites came over and introduced violence to them.

Which is kind of weird, because there's not any evidence to support that, but ah well.

If you keep digging (literally) you will find a pleasant variety of artifacts all over the US. A group lived, a group died or moved or was absorbed into a larger group, and another group took over.

[DamianTV]

Maybe if we quit rewarding illegal immigration, we would remove the incentive to come here illegally.

[BAllen]

Maybe if we quit rewarding illegal immigration, we would remove the incentive to come here illegally.

But then how would the marxists get their support base?

[Zippyjuan]

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/04/23/net-migration-from-mexico-falls-to-zero-and-perhaps-less/


Net Migration from Mexico Falls to Zero—and Perhaps Less
by Jeffrey Passel, D’Vera Cohn and Ana Gonzalez-Barrera

The largest wave of immigration in history from a single country to the United States has come to a standstill. After four decades that brought 12 million current immigrants—most of whom came illegally—the net migration flow from Mexico to the United States has stopped and may have reversed, according to a new analysis of government data from both countries by the Pew Hispanic Center, a project of the Pew Research Center.

The standstill appears to be the result of many factors, including the weakened U.S. job and housing construction markets, heightened border enforcement, a rise in deportations, the growing dangers associated with illegal border crossings, the long-term decline in Mexico’s birth rates and broader economic conditions in Mexico.

It is possible that the Mexican immigration wave will resume as the U.S. economy recovers. Even if it doesn’t, it has already secured a place in the record books. The U.S. today has more immigrants from Mexico alone—12.0 million—than any other country in the world has from all countries of the world.1 Some 30% of all current U.S. immigrants were born in Mexico. The next largest sending country—China (including Hong Kong and Taiwan)—accounts for just 5% of the nation’s current stock of about 40 million immigrants.

More at link.

[Orgoonian]

From my POV (Cherokee) everyone here is an illegal immigrant.

Your mob took the land from my mob and now you set arbitrary rules on what is an "illegal immigrant".


White Europeans brought "diversity".
Eventually the "indigenous"were displaced,but who cares right?Diversity trumps all !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnmBmzoV5hY&list=FLjcDsnVD_CyvZrK-szHqW-A&index=3



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnmBmzoV5hY&list=FLjcDsnVD_CyvZrK-szHqW-A&index=3

[Zippyjuan]

"The Time Has Come.
A Fact's A Fact.
It Belongs To Them.
Let's Give It Back."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejorQVy3m8E

[presence]

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp



We should welcome all who come here, legally or illegally.

..

[BAllen]

White Europeans brought "diversity".
Eventually the "indigenous"were displaced,but who cares right?Diversity trumps all !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnmBmzoV5hY&list=FLjcDsnVD_CyvZrK-szHqW-A&index=3



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnmBmzoV5hY&list=FLjcDsnVD_CyvZrK-szHqW-A&index=3

Whites were the native americans displaced by the indians:

http://www.trussel.com/prehist/news136.htm