OBAMA: Universal Preschool

[presence]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57569323/obama-to-unveil-universal-preschool-plan/



President Obama continues his post-State of the Union road show today in Decatur, Ga., where he will unveil details of his plan to expand preschool programs, which he mentioned during his address Tuesday night.


"I propose working with states to make high-quality preschool available to every child in America," Mr. Obama said Tuesday.


"In states that make it a priority to educate our youngest children, like Georgia or Oklahoma, studies show students grow up more likely to read and do math at grade level, graduate high school, hold a job and form more stable families of their own. So let's do what works, and make sure none of our children start the race of life already behind. Let's give our kids that chance," he added.


The president is set to visit the College Heights Early Childhood Learning Center in Decatur, to make a case for the benefits of universal pre-K and lay out more details of his plan.


Among the proposals Mr. Obama will announce, according to the White House, include:





Providing preschool to all low- and moderate-income four-year-olds to be funded by a new federal-state partnership
Investing more in the Head Start program
Implementing higher standards for schools to meet in order to receive federal funding
Encouraging states to expand full-day kindergarten


Meantime, the president's ambitious plan could be in jeopardy if lawmakers don't avert the so-called sequester - billions in automatic budget cuts set to kick in on March 1. With the cuts looming, the administration has increased its pressure on lawmakers, and Mr. Obama's State of the Union address Tuesday made clear he was not looking for compromise as he began his second term.


The president isn't expected to get into the details about how much his new proposal will cost

[kathy88]

Must. Indoctrinate. Earlier.

[Seraphim]

Socialism of the right (Fascistic National Socialism, USA/Germany style) and socialism of the left (Communism, USSR/Cuba style) require early indoctrination.

Public school systems fall into two categories;

well intentioned retardation
pure evil

Pick your poison.


Must. Indoctrinate. Earlier.

[acptulsa]

So, we can't afford to do the crap we're already doing, and Head Start is racking up terrible stats that make everyone wonder if its useless. Indeed, the very fact that he didn't mention Head Start, but pulled a vague and debatable stat out of his ass, demonstrates Head Start doesn't have a leg to stand on. So, of course we have to spend money we don't have expanding a program that doesn't necessarily work. What else?

Insanity.

[dean.engelhardt]

I'm a libertarian and I also believe the benefits of early childhood education. The two do not have to be in conflict. Responsibility for early childhood education needs to start at the base level, the parents. Most parents do a great job. Some don’t. I don’t believe that taxpayers should be forced to pay for another person’s child to attend preschool, but there are long term benefits for everybody when poor, at risk children go to a good preschool program.

I don’t agree with Obama’s version of those benefits. What I see is that preschool programs reduce the future crime rate and incarceration time. Cost of preschool is a small fraction of the cost of incarceration. Incarceration is a large burden on the taxpayer. This is a hard sell because the length of time to see the results and objectivity of measuring the result.

Using private charities and volunteers are the best approach to early childhood education for at risk kids. A mass federal program that provides “free” preschool for all families just makes the problem worse. Parent will use it as a babysitting service and make them lazy about parenting, which will hurt our kids more.

[presence]

Parent will use it as a babysitting service and make them lazy about parenting, which will hurt our kids more.


BING! Moral Hazard.

[Lucille]

Must. Indoctrinate. Earlier.

That's it. I swear, the world of Ayn Rand's Anthem is one of the progs' goals.


We remember the Home of the Infants where we lived till we were five years old, together with all the children of the City who had been born in the same year. The sleeping halls there were white and clean and bare of all things save one hundred beds. We were just like all our brothers then, save for the one transgression: we fought with our brothers. There are few offenses blacker than to fight with our brothers, at any age and for any cause whatsoever. The Council of the Home told us so, and of all the children of that year, we were locked in the cellar most often.

When we were five years old, we were sent to the Home of the Students, where there are ten wards, for our ten years of learning. Men must learn till they reach their fifteenth year. Then they go to work. In the Home of the Students we arose when the big bell rang in the tower and we went to our beds when it rang again. Before we removed our garments, we stood in the great sleeping hall, and we raised our right arms, and we said all together with the three Teachers at the head:

"We are nothing. Mankind is all. By the grace of our brothers are we allowed our lives. We exist through, by and for our brothers who are the State. Amen."

Then we slept. The sleeping halls were white and clean and bare of all things save one hundred beds.

We, Equality 7-2521, were not happy in those years in the Home of the Students. It was not that the learning was too hard for us. It was that the learning was too easy. This is a great sin, to be born with a head which is too quick. It is not good to be different from our brothers, but it is evil to be superior to them. The Teachers told us so, and they frowned when they looked upon us.

[CaptainAmerica]

wtf..........................

[Lucille]

So, we can't afford to do the crap we're already doing, and Head Start is racking up terrible stats that make everyone wonder if its useless. Indeed, the very fact that he didn't mention Head Start, but pulled a vague and debatable stat out of his ass, demonstrates Head Start doesn't have a leg to stand on. So, of course we have to spend money we don't have expanding a program that doesn't necessarily work. What else?

Insanity.

It really is. Many come out of HS even worse off.


On Wednesday, The Center for American Progress released their proposal to increase funding for the already failing Head Start Project. The progessive thinktank is lobbying to increase funding from 7,200 dollars per student to 10,000 dollars per student. That’s nearly 40 percent more than what we're spending now.
[...]

At the end of 3rd grade, there was suggestive evidence of an unfavorable impact—the parents of the Head Start group children reported a significantly lower child grade promotion rate than the parents of the non-Head Start group children.

That means spending almost 40 percent more per participant to leave our children’s circumstances unchanged or even worse than when they when they first entered school (http://reason.com/blog/2013/02/11/head-starts-failure-needs-no-more-fundin).


If only we had some kind of large scale well-tracked pilot program that could give us some information about whether that is a good idea. Oh wait! We do! It's called Head Start, the $8 billion federal program catering to more than 1 million low-income kids.

Better still, the federal government has done a huge study, tracking 5,000 kids and comparing them to kids who did not have access to Head Start.

The findings are not impressive (http://reason.com/blog/2013/02/13/obama-wants-universal-preschool-even-tho). A 2010 analysis of that group found that the cognitive, health, parenting, and social benefits of the program had vanished by first grade. And a 2012 look at the third grade outcomes was even less heartening, with no discernible academic gains and teachers reporting slightly more behavioral problems in the Head Start kids.

[DGambler]

I'm done with my fellow "enlightened" citizens; anyone who doesn't see what's going on is blind and/or stupid.

[bolil]

Meh, Guess those early years of indoctrination will make all the difference.

[KrokHead]

If Daycare had a lobby they'd be livid

[moostraks]

So, we can't afford to do the crap we're already doing, and Head Start is racking up terrible stats that make everyone wonder if its useless. Indeed, the very fact that he didn't mention Head Start, but pulled a vague and debatable stat out of his ass, demonstrates Head Start doesn't have a leg to stand on. So, of course we have to spend money we don't have expanding a program that doesn't necessarily work. What else?

Insanity.

Absolutely agree with you yet again acptulsa...


I'm a libertarian and I also believe the benefits of early childhood education. The two do not have to be in conflict. Responsibility for early childhood education needs to start at the base level, the parents. Most parents do a great job. Some don’t. I don’t believe that taxpayers should be forced to pay for another person’s child to attend preschool, but there are long term benefits for everybody when poor, at risk children go to a good preschool program.

I don’t agree with Obama’s version of those benefits. What I see is that preschool programs reduce the future crime rate and incarceration time. Cost of preschool is a small fraction of the cost of incarceration. Incarceration is a large burden on the taxpayer. This is a hard sell because the length of time to see the results and objectivity of measuring the result.

Using private charities and volunteers are the best approach to early childhood education for at risk kids. A mass federal program that provides “free” preschool for all families just makes the problem worse. Parent will use it as a babysitting service and make them lazy about parenting, which will hurt our kids more.

I disagree with the benefits of early childhood education. It stifles the years the children have to be...just be and absorb the world around them. If Johnny can read early but there is nothing of value that he can comprehend then all you have is a well trained seal. When people start to toss around words like responsibility and early childhood education I begin to wonder according to what belief system. My children don't do their letters until about 7 when they then learn to read and have something that is of value to their mental comprehension and world experiences. So does this then make me irresponsible?

It sounds like your position is more from the perspective that the children are not benefitting from the evironment they are being exposed to and not that the early information program is changing things. Parents are going to use any early childhood program as a babysitting service no matter what the source unless they are responsible for the content and execution of the program.

[Philhelm]

Socialism of the right (Fascistic National Socialism, USA/Germany style) and socialism of the left (Communism, USSR/Cuba style) require early indoctrination.

Public school systems fall into two categories;

well intentioned retardation
pure evil

Pick your poison.

Pure evil.

[juleswin]

I wonder how many republican Governor are in agreement with Obama on the need for state run pre schools. I say 50% or more.

[tttppp]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57569323/obama-to-unveil-universal-preschool-plan/


We need less public schooling, not more. By the way, preschool is even more of a complete waste of time than school. Its only there for day care.

[NCGOPer_for_Paul]

I'm done with my fellow "enlightened" citizens; anyone who doesn't see what's going on is blind and/or stupid.

And if you tell the truth using statistics and observations that Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles could see from the last row of the upper deck, you are labeled a racist and make people "uncomfortable".

[osan]

Meh, Guess those early years of indoctrination will make all the difference.

I envision a time when, upon learning one is pregnant, they will be ushered to the medical facilities at MiniProp where the kindly doctors will insert a propaganda tranducer into their vagina so that the little darling can be socialized from the earliest moments. "obey.... obey.... obey.... obey...."

How about we find ways to propagandize daddy's sperm and mommy's eggs while we're at it?

[KrokHead]

Preschool curriculum:
- "A, B, C, D, E, F, G! H, I, J, K, "ELLEMNO," P, Q, R, S! T, U, V, W, X, Y and Z. Now you know my ABC's! Would you like to sing with me!"
- Nap time!
- Share toys or the teacher can't do anything to reprimand you
- "There's this Groundhog in Punxsutawney that has the power to control seasons!"
- "Indians and Pilgrims put their differences aside for one day as they ate the first Thanksgiving."
- Sandbox excavation

[ifthenwouldi]

If it's universal, it's no longer "PRE" school. It's "increasing the number of years of school," and we should force advocates to refer to it in those terms.

[Danan]

I'm a libertarian and I also believe the benefits of early childhood education. The two do not have to be in conflict. Responsibility for early childhood education needs to start at the base level, the parents. Most parents do a great job. Some don’t. I don’t believe that taxpayers should be forced to pay for another person’s child to attend preschool, but there are long term benefits for everybody when poor, at risk children go to a good preschool program.

I don’t agree with Obama’s version of those benefits. What I see is that preschool programs reduce the future crime rate and incarceration time. Cost of preschool is a small fraction of the cost of incarceration. Incarceration is a large burden on the taxpayer. This is a hard sell because the length of time to see the results and objectivity of measuring the result.

Using private charities and volunteers are the best approach to early childhood education for at risk kids. A mass federal program that provides “free” preschool for all families just makes the problem worse. Parent will use it as a babysitting service and make them lazy about parenting, which will hurt our kids more.

How do you know that preschools cause lower crime rates? How do you know that both traits, having been to a preschool and having comitted a crime, don't have a common different cause, like for example being the child of higher income parents?

I don't believe in the benefits of preschooling, because I don't believe in the benefits of schooling at all, at any age. Schools don't work. You don't actually learn any usefull skill there. At least not in a acceptable timeframe. All schools do is to confront students with arbitrary information for a few hours a day in a horrible fashion and killing their curiosity, willingness to learn and ability to think critically and being skeptical. They are completely useless. Everything useful I learned in 9 years of going to school I could have learned in two or three years on my own.

David Friedman's children didn't go to school (and neither were they homeschooled in any real sense). They still turned out to be pretty intelligent, from what I can tell:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9yO7TlCa7A

[I<3Liberty]

I think preschool is important, but it should be privatized just like any other school.

I work for a church that has their own preschool -- the kids are said to be better prepared for kindergarten and more mature and well-behaved that kids that did not attend this preschool or preschool at all. The kids learn so much and are socialized really early (which is great.) Parents can pick which preschool they feel is best and the best ones fill up first while the less popular ones are left to improve.

[bolil]

Hmmm, would mandatory universal preschool not be a violation of the 4th amendment. Mandatory attendance can be, and is by me, seen as an unreasonable seizure of persons. What is the probable cause? Possible, future, ignorance? Wouldn't that be laughed out of court? Can you obtain a warrant that mandates preschool? Is the oath or affirmation: "I've witnessed ignorance in people". Particularly describing the places to be searched and the persons or things to be seized: Persons: Everyone. Places: Everywhere.

Are not the rights outlined in the Bill of Rights applicable to more than the criminal just-us system?

Also a potential violation of the first, depending on the religious beliefs of the parent(s) and child. Are not children entitled to religious beliefs? Isn't the belief that public education can be religion (In that is espouses a very particular system of belief) a religious belief, and thus isn't it expressly forbidden by the first, in that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". Or, does congress also get to decide which beliefs are religious in nature and which are "educational" in nature.

Certain sciences perhaps, being absolutely demonstrable, can be considered separate from religion. Other facets of the modern educations, especially history and government, are just as interpretable as religious truth.

If marijuana were legal I wouldn't think these thoughts.

[heavenlyboy34]

Zamyatin predicted this in the 1930s and Rand copied it. Onward, comrades, to a New Soviet Amerika! A Workers' Paradise!

[juleswin]

Must. Indoctrinate. Earlier.

More than indoctrinate. I am beginning to believe that the end goal is to destroy the family and replace the functions previously performed by the state agencies.

[bolil]

Zamyatin predicted this in the 1930s and Rand copied it. Onward, comrades, to a New Soviet Amerika! A Workers' Paradise!

Mundanes be spendin all their time, livin in a workers paradise.

[heavenlyboy34]

More than indoctrinate. I am beginning to believe that the end goal is to destroy the family and replace the functions previously performed by the state agencies.
IIRC, that was an explicit goal of the various founders of American government education. A little rusty on my Gatto factoids.

[bunklocoempire]

"I propose working with states to make high-quality preschool daycare available to every child poor sap working two jobs to pay for inflation in America," Mr. Obama said Tuesday.

:mad:

[phill4paul]

:mad:

Yup.

[I<3Liberty]

I don't believe the "indoctrinate" and "destroy the family" are correct and that they are doing nothing for this argument.

Like I said before, the church I work for has a preschool and the kids are taught a lot of great stuff including religious studies. None of the preschools are teaching children bad things. They're learning basic math, how to read, writing skills, working on social and fine motor skills, etc. through child friendly activities.

Coming from a family that values education, even kids that do not go to preschool and stay home with a parent or relative, need to have structured activity of educational value. It teaches them to follow directions and follow a schedule as they will be expected to during school.

[moostraks]

I don't believe the "indoctrinate" and "destroy the family" are correct and that they are doing nothing for this argument.

Like I said before, the church I work for has a preschool and the kids are taught a lot of great stuff including religious studies. None of the preschools are teaching children bad things. They're learning basic math, how to read, writing skills, working on social and fine motor skills, etc. through child friendly activities.

Coming from a family that values education, even kids that do not go to preschool and stay home with a parent or relative, need to have structured activity of educational value. It teaches them to follow directions and follow a schedule as they will be expected to during school.

Only if they are going to an structured school environment is your scenario a benefit and in that it is a benefit for the teacher more than the student. What is learned in structured preschool classes is herd behavior and compliance. The educational value is minimal because most of what is taught can be done quicker and easier with an older student when they are more physically and intellectually able to accomplish the tasks.

Children need their parents. An outsider educator is not the optimum choice imo. It is like paying a restaurant to feed your family. It accomplishes the job but is not as loving or concerned for the individual as a home cooked meal.

[phill4paul]

Preschool curriculum:
- "A, B, C, D, E, F, G! H, I, J, K, "ELLEMNO," P, Q, R, S! T, U, V, W, X, Y and Z. Now you know my ABC's! Would you like to sing with me!"
- Nap time!
- Share toys or the teacher can't do anything to reprimand you
- "There's this Groundhog in Punxsutawney that has the power to control seasons!"
- "Indians and Pilgrims put their differences aside for one day as they ate the first Thanksgiving."
- Sandbox excavation

-LOCKDOWN DRILL

[brandon]

Providing preschool to all low- and moderate-income four-year-olds to be funded by a new federal-state partnership


Great so I suspect I will fall just above the cutoff, as I do with nearly all welfare and assistance programs. And then this will become yet another expense I have to pay for if I want to keep up with the middle-low class. They already get free food, free daycare, free medicine, and free housing, and free schooling. So lets expand it even further...make the middle class feel even poorer.

[seraphson]

So, we can't afford to do the crap we're already doing, and Head Start is racking up terrible stats that make everyone wonder if its useless. Indeed, the very fact that he didn't mention Head Start, but pulled a vague and debatable stat out of his ass, demonstrates Head Start doesn't have a leg to stand on. So, of course we have to spend money we don't have expanding a program that doesn't necessarily work. What else?

Insanity.

We truly do live in the land of Oz. Where quasi-dictators truly believe we have wealth pouring out of our asses.

[bolil]

If teacher unions were not so capricious then there would be more than enough preschool to go around.

Homeschooling is the best option, but it is one beyond the means of many people. The next best thing is a vast variety in private education.

Languages first, in tandem with logic.

I am a product of public schools, and to this day I do not understand why show and tell took precedence over languages. There is a window in which a mind is best able to learn language, this is common knowledge, why is this window forsaken for Suzy's Frog Sir Hoppity?

[brushfire]

Just what we need... More government schools. I mean, they do it so well - seems only natural.

Joking aside - the idea of such a thing is terrifying to me.

[bolil]

Just what we need... More government schools. I mean, they do it so well - seems only natural.

Joking aside - the idea of such a thing is terrifying to me.

Education, truly, is what separates humans from other animals. That is not to say grants them superiority as regards dignity. I do not think, however, that coercive funding of narrow "education" is appropriate. Thats just what it is too, init, narrow. Preschool is a time for language and logic, and in a free market schools that recognized that would produce superior scholars and flourish.

[bolil]

double post

[brushfire]

Education, truly, is what separates humans from other animals. That is not to say grants them superiority as regards dignity. I do not think, however, that coercive funding of narrow "education" is appropriate. Thats just what it is too, init, narrow. Preschool is a time for language and logic, and in a free market schools that recognized that would produce superior scholars and flourish.

I agree with you on the education, absolutely. I also agree that we dont need government to make this possible.

I also see all day kindergarten as a scam - they're using that to generate more revenue. Where I live, all day kindergarten is 2.5 times more than 1/2 day. The advocates claim it will "boost revenue", and our district would qualify for increased state subsidies (IL is already deadbeat state when it comes to these subsidies). What happened to the children? Or do they only come up in gun control debates?

[bolil]

I agree with you on the education, absolutely. I also agree that we dont need government to make this possible.

I also see all day kindergarten as a scam - they're using that to generate more revenue. Where I live, all day kindergarten is 2.5 times more than 1/2 day. The advocates claim it will "boost revenue", and our district would qualify for increased state subsidies (IL is already deadbeat state when it comes to these subsidies). What happened to the children? Or do they only come up in gun control debates?

It is a scam. It is fucking snake oil. Preschool my ass. Preindoctrination would be more appropriate. The fact that government jobs come into an issue as vital as education DISGUSTS me. One day, if I make it big, I will grow flowers from this shit. I went through the Cook County Public education system and it was BULLSHIT.

Heh, taught me how to fight though.

[I<3Liberty]

Only if they are going to an structured school environment is your scenario a benefit and in that it is a benefit for the teacher more than the student. What is learned in structured preschool classes is herd behavior and compliance. The educational value is minimal because most of what is taught can be done quicker and easier with an older student when they are more physically and intellectually able to accomplish the tasks.

Children need their parents. An outsider educator is not the optimum choice imo. It is like paying a restaurant to feed your family. It accomplishes the job but is not as loving or concerned for the individual as a home cooked meal.

I disagree. Lady Xeona, a 6-year-old that has skipped two grades and joined the Mensa society at age two. http://www.youtube.com/user/ladyxeona Picked up these skills very early because she was provided with the resources to do so. I learned to read at a very early age, sew at age 5, and all sorts of information about bugs and trees because that's what my parents provided me with the resources to learn about. Most of the kids at my high school that graduated early or skipped grades only did so because they were submerged in academia at a very early age. I think academics and arts are great for kids. It teaches them so much including self-discipline, self-control, social skills, and how to be more independent.

[moostraks]

I disagree. Lady Xeona, a 6-year-old that has skipped two grades and joined the Mensa society at age two. http://www.youtube.com/user/ladyxeona Picked up these skills very early because she was provided with the resources to do so. I learned to read at a very early age, sew at age 5, and all sorts of information about bugs and trees because that's what my parents provided me with the resources to learn about. Most of the kids at my high school that graduated early or skipped grades only did so because they were submerged in academia at a very early age. I think academics and arts are great for kids. It teaches them so much including self-discipline, self-control, social skills, and how to be more independent.
People are individuals and that some are gifted in that respect does not make it a reflection that intellectualism at an early age is beneficial to all. A child schooled by an intimate care giver is going to achieve more than one dumped into a general program. The programs for preschool are based on the curve and are not providing such substantial information that it can be skipped over at a later date. They take twice as long to teach what can be learned quicker when a child is slightly older. They provide exposure to a subject. I doubt anyone skips grades because they say their abcs earlier but more because of a number of other factors including a predisposition to retention that allows them to do so. I had good friends who worked much harder than I at schoolwork but because I had a good short term memory I took ap classes. Not fair but I was programmed to achieve easier in the manner information was provided to us.