Should America Openly Default on Its Debt?

[lx43]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYGmHnun0V8&feature=player_embedded

I agree with the Doug Casey about the US should just default on all of its debt and announce it will not be paid. What do you say?

[TheTexan]

It would be the honest thing to do. It would also be the best choice for the people. Not so good for the bankers.

[jj-]

Better than hyperinflation.

[lx43]

The reason I think the debt should be defaulted on is that all the spending and wars we have been for the past 50 years have basically been unconstitutional. It would also punish the people who loaned the govt money to spend on illegal things like SS, Medicaid, undeclared wars.

[RickyJ]

It doesn't really matter one way or another, it is slowly being defaulted on right now through inflation. Soon it won't be so slow anymore and it will end one way or another without anything changing.

[FindLiberty]

What, unplug the printing press and void (most) all government employee/contractor paychecks?

Never happen.

[James Madison]

Might as well. It's gonna happen eventually unless we get hyperinflation, which would be worse. Prolonging the suffering only makes the recovery that much harder.

[paulbot24]

America's world reserve currency status and probably the petrodollar would fall if they were to do this. When you say, "You can't take it with you." Well, they intend to hold on to these and will kill anybody and everybody, including themselves, to make sure nobody can take it away from them. If they can't have it, then they'll make damn sure nobody has it, even if it means their grandchildren dead or sitting on endless piles of rubble.

[BAllen]

Yes, they should. Money is created out of nothing anway, so why should the debts be paid? They can always make more money out of nothing.

[DamianTV]

The right thing to do is the exact opposite of what is going to happen.

Dont default, Revoke the Charter of the Federal Reserve Bank.

The first two Central Banks (yes, we had two prior to the Fed) charters were not renewed. If we choose the path of defaulting, that says we consider the transactions of allowing a privately owned Banking Cartel that controls the issue of a Nations Currency to have been a legitimate agreement, although we should all know damn well by now it was fraudulus to begin with. The secondary consequence of this comes as a result of legitimizing the Central Bank, and that is asset forfeiture. Dont pay back the loan, we get your shit. Our govt isnt going to give up govt shit. They are going to give up YOUR shit. The shit you own. Probably even YOU in payment of asset forfeiture.

Central Banks are a TRAP. Every man that has stood against the Central Banking Cartel has been threatened, either with death, or War. The Banksters do not care which, as long as they gain control.

Let me spell it out.

Kennedy - Silver Dollar - Assassinated
Lincoln - Greenback - Assassinated
Jackson - He dismantled the Second Bank of the United States (Central Bank) - Attempted Assassination - Epitaph "I killed the Bank"

The Central Banks WANT us to Default. They know they have our political leaders by the balls, and are squeezing their hands. They apparently like to have their hands on mens balls too, but that implication exceeds the scope of this post. They know damn well that our political leaders are addicted to the money they print like a Crack Whore to Pop Rocks, and the power their fiat currency holds sway over them. Our corrupted leaders will sell every single last one of us out for more favors from the Printing Press.

Banks destroy wealth. They do not protect it.

The only real power that Banks have is to create debt. And since our fiat currency is an inflationary petrol double backed, debt backed fiat currency, we can use the two works nearly interchangably. Debt and Fiat Currency mean the same fucking thing. But they have a Trump. No not Donald. Interest. Applying interest to a Debt Based Currency creates more debt than can ever exist currency, the nature of the Trap becomes self supportive. It is a game of musical chairs. Someone must lose. And when they do, they know that their own debt has no real tangible value. Its value to them comes from the False Sense of Obligation that people feel to "repay that debt". Repay it is what should be done. Since the Debt itself came from NOTHING, we pay it back with NOTHING. We should not think that we have "somehow" mismanaged our finances, as that is the illusion. We pay back the Illusion with an Illusion, and return to Constitutional Money that represents Wealth, not destroys it.

The Real Solution to the Real Terrorists of our time is to Abolish Central Banks, Worldwide, period. Fuck the Banks and their phoney debt.

[cheapseats]

...Revoke the Charter of the Federal Reserve Bank...



"With all due respect", anyone pimping or accepting AUDIT THE FED is a N'er-Do-Well or a Nincompoop. It is WORSE than meaningless, it is smoke-and-mirror perpetuation, for the mighty and mysterious Federal Reserve Bank to be audited.

LIARS FIGURE, AND FIGURES LIE.

[cheapseats]

The reason I think the debt should be defaulted on is that all the spending and wars we have been for the past 50 years have basically been unconstitutional. It would also punish the people who loaned the govt money to spend on illegal things like SS, Medicaid, undeclared wars.


NOT defaulted, rather, REPUDIATED.

American Taxpayers should repudiate ODIOUS DEBT.


Definition of 'Odious Debt'
Money borrowed by one country from another country and then misappropriated by national rulers. A nation's debt becomes odious debt when government leaders use borrowed funds in ways that don't benefit or even oppress citizens. Some legal scholars argue that successor governments should not be held accountable for odious debt incurred by earlier regimes, but there is no consensus on how odious debt should actually be treated. In practice, countries often end up repaying it to uphold their ability to borrow at favorable interest rates.


Investopedia explains 'Odious Debt'
Legal scholars have identified regimes associated with odious debt in Nicaragua, the Philippines, Haiti, South Africa, Congo, Niger, Croatia and other countries whose rulers have looted national funds for their personal accounts or used the money to restrict liberties and inflict violence on their own citizens. In the European debt crisis of the early 2010s, some critics called Greek's debt odious.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/odious-debt.asp#axzz2Kt5ZFSiT



In international law, odious debt, also known as illegitimate debt, is a legal theory that holds that the national debt incurred by a regime for purposes that do not serve the best interests of the nation, should not be enforceable. Such debts are, thus, considered by this doctrine to be personal debts of the regime that incurred them and not debts of the state. In some respects, the concept is analogous to the invalidity of contracts signed under coercion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odious_debt

[thetruthhurtsthefed]

Yes. Not to weasle their way out of debt, but rather because this system has and was forced upon the nation by underhandedness and deception. To teach them (banks) a lesson, it would be only thing to do (default on the "loan"). The banking system as we know it would collapse (debt based). Iceland and Argentina did it successfully-Iceland more so (quicker recovery). ***However, when the banks see this potential default looming, they send in their goons: assassination theats, civil unrest, disinformation to the civilians (anything to defame the current government out of power or hussle them right back into order). If the cowards in Washington can overcome the threats this nation is saved. USA has the greatest and largest military. How easy is it to order an overthrow of the IMF, FED, WTO, World Bank etc.....????

[MRK]

America's world reserve currency status and probably the petrodollar would fall if they were to do this. When you say, "You can't take it with you." Well, they intend to hold on to these and will kill anybody and everybody, including themselves, to make sure nobody can take it away from them. If they can't have it, then they'll make damn sure nobody has it, even if it means their grandchildren dead or sitting on endless piles of rubble.

How is this? I don't see how paying back national debts and people wanting to hold FRNs are negatively correlated. If anything it would strengthen the value of dollar IMO. This isnt the gold standard where a dollar represents gold owed. A dollar represents nothing except purchasing power in the US. Dont you think purchasing power would increase when to live in the United States and use dollars you dont have to pay 90% of your income to pay off government debt? No one would want to live or invest here anymore.

[thoughtomator]

All sovereign debt is inherently odious, so absolutely it should be defaulted - with prejudice. Those who hold it should be given the middle finger - yes, even if they're little old coupon-clipping grannies.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cd-SLRyuRq0

It's a moral crime to sell your own posterity into slavery for your own material gratification, and that's a very precise description of what the Boomer generation, and to some extent their parents', has done to the rest of us.

[kcchiefs6465]

I was thinking they should make a super duper platinum coin and sell it to the dumbest person they can find... oh wait....

[heavenlyboy34]

Didn't read the whole thread-but the regime has already defaulted by running the money printing press (as Doug mentions). That said, I don't mind a default. I wonder though, if the same people who support this "national default" will accept doing something similar to student loan debt. :confused:

[heavenlyboy34]

America's world reserve currency status and probably the petrodollar would fall if they were to do this. When you say, "You can't take it with you." Well, they intend to hold on to these and will kill anybody and everybody, including themselves, to make sure nobody can take it away from them. If they can't have it, then they'll make damn sure nobody has it, even if it means their grandchildren dead or sitting on endless piles of rubble.
I can see why you'd think that. However, the US regime also has the biggest and most weaponry in teh world. If you're a foreigner looking at that, do you really want to fuck with it? I wouldn't...at least not until the weapon systems are so obsolete they're worthless. (TPTB won't be able to keep up military spending as they have been in a BIG default, IMO)

[thoughtomator]

I wonder though, if the same people who support this "national default" will accept doing something similar to student loan debt. :confused:

Student loan debt is mostly odious as well. They're suckering people into taking out these horrendous loans with false promises and relentless propaganda. I wholly support default-able student debt, and I think anyone who can't get a job in 6-12 months after graduation should default it. It would actually be wise in many cases to default it the day after graduation, from a financial planning perspective, unless the student has an unusually bright financial future.

[erowe1]

This seems pretty black and white to me.

The politicians never had any right to make promises on behalf of future tax payers. Ergo, those taxpayers are not liable for the promises those politicians made.

[paulbot24]

I can see why you'd think that. However, the US regime also has the biggest and most weaponry in teh world. If you're a foreigner looking at that, do you really want to fuck with it? I wouldn't...at least not until the weapon systems are so obsolete they're worthless. (TPTB won't be able to keep up military spending as they have been in a BIG default, IMO)

TPTB don't have an allegiance to any country. With their international holdings can you imagine how confusing it would be for them to even try to feign some sort of obligation to a particular country? They clearly make alot of money here in America, and you don't shit where you live as the saying goes, but these "people" bear a closer resemblance to psychopathic creatures than actual humans. That fact, combined with the kind of money we can't even comprehend makes them horribly clever. I want to see the little trolls hang just as much as all of you. Trust me. I just can't imagine the whole world buying the whole unconstitutionality of the debt argument we would give them when we pull a fiscal Iceland with frying pans on the bankers here. We better be sure when we do. They will just scurry to Switzerland or anywhere that will have them, and somebody will always take them in. The trouble with the trolls is when you finally get down to brass tacks and they realize they have to scurry away, they will push every button, eviscerate shit to scorched earth, and leave a trail of blood when they vanish to some undisclosed location where they just lay low and just reboot the money gimmick server somewhere else. TPTB do not have to worry about weapons systems, they are always perfectly safe someplace, throughout the whole thing, from first blood to final treaty. We do have to worry about weapons systems! I agree with you, if I were a foreigner, I wouldn't want to fuck with American artillery. However, I don't want to fuck with any artillery with psychopaths that have just decided to pull a hard reboot and wait a while. Hell, a few suitcase nukes from Cold War era Russia will still do some real nasty shit here if you know what I mean. That is why we have to be damn sure when we tell them we're not paying them back. It will not be the first time somebody has tried it, and it won't be the last. They've seen it all before and their slut money legacy will certainly outlive all of us. God damn I hate the fed.

[DamianTV]

"With all due respect", anyone pimping or accepting AUDIT THE FED is a N'er-Do-Well or a Nincompoop. It is WORSE than meaningless, it is smoke-and-mirror perpetuation, for the mighty and mysterious Federal Reserve Bank to be audited.

LIARS FIGURE, AND FIGURES LIE.

Excuse me? Did I say "Audit the Fed"? No. I said "Revoke". That means flat out take the power to enslave nations with debt away from the bankers. And that is probably going to take nothing short of a Civil War.

Ron Paul wanted everything to go as peacefully as possible, so it starts with the Audit. An Audit would be what I would absolutely support, because it is far more peaceful than an All Out Rebellion, but an Audit is not what I originally stated.

The Audit was not suggested by Ron Paul so we can hold the individuals responsible. The Audit was suggested to awaken the people that regardless of who is in the Federal Reserve Bank, by its very nature, it will systematically destroy the wealth of the world. Ron explained in more detail the steps we need to take to ensure the survival of liberty. Auditing the Fed is a Step. The goal is to get rid of it, and Central Banking, period.

Who do you think funds the War on Freedom? The "Free People" by means of Taxes and Levies on the purchase of the goods that they purchase and wages they earn, or by unrestricted Money Printing?

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All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise, not from defects in their Constitution or Confederation, not from want of honor or virtue, so much as from the downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation.

- John Adams