Tactical and Strategical Ineptitude of Dorner Now Evident

[AuH20]

In retrospect, where do we start?????????? Christopher Dorner, despite his credentials and ample preparation time, proved to be a lackluster adversary for the LAPD and surrounding units. Let us count the ways:

- the publication of his Manifesto which removed any element of surprise and essentially cordoned off his potential targets
- the decision not to create a few strategically placed weapon or supply caches made readily available if need be
- the decision to isolate yourself in the mountainous Big Bear Resort area with little opportunity to escape due to high visibility and limited road access.
- No thought about going into the wilderness like Eric Rudolph and waiting out your enemies in a well-stocked cave or spiderhole.

[Petar]

His first and most glaring tactical mistake (as a human being) was killing innocent people. I don't know that any other details are really that important.

[Tax the Fed]

That strategical and tactical ineptitude evident only if their will be dental or DNA evidence that shows
the real Dorner was turned to ash - otherwise I'll assume he is in Mexico

[jmdrake]

That strategical and tactical ineptitude evident only if their will be dental or DNA evidence that shows
the real Dorner was turned to ash - otherwise I'll assume he is in Mexico

Well if they have DNA evidence on Dorner, that's more than what they have on Osama Bin Laden.

[Philhelm]

The Manifesto was certainly the first mistake since he had immediately outed himself. On the other hand, there are those who support or sympathize for him because of the Manifesto; therefore, perhaps it was a good PR move even if strategically unsound.

[TonySutton]

It appears he may have only had one plan, to flee via water, which failed due to the rope getting tangled in the prop. He may have been going ad hoc from that point forward. It is always good to have contingent plans and is also good to think clearly in the fog of war.

[erowe1]

His first and most glaring tactical mistake (as a human being) was killing innocent people. I don't know that any other details are really that important.

On the other hand, he got caught because of an innocent person he didn't kill who escaped.

The manifesto wasn't really a mistake, it was the whole point. The killing was a means to an end. The manifesto was the end.

[jmdrake]

On the other hand, he got caught because of an innocent person he didn't kill who escaped.

The manifesto wasn't really a mistake, it was the whole point. The killing was a means to an end. The manifesto was the end.

I'm saying this with the caveat that I'm assuming (and kinda believe though things are questionable) that the conventional account of events is correct. Assuming that's the case the manifesto still could have gotten out if he had killed the police captain instead of his daughter and her boyfriend. It seems to be pure revenge was the end. He wanted the captain to live out the rest of his years feeling responsible for his daughter's death. And he wanted the rest of the world to know why.

[Demigod]

I don't think his manifesto was a mistake,it was a powerful public weapon which turned a big part of the public opinion into either a positive or a neutral one and giving the LAPD a lot of bad press.All he needed to do was wait it out and let the paranoia of the cops to get them in conflict with the locals as they seek retribution.

He had a lot of time to prepare,maybe the boat was a crucial part he thought could not go wrong but he should have had a back up.In any case his end game should have never been to go guns blazing but to be taken alive so he could become a martyr.

[thoughtomator]

The manifesto was only a mistake to the extent that he was a blowhard that claimed strategic ability he clearly didn't have. From the moment he burned that truck he should have done everything he could to get away from Big Bear. Why in the world would he stay near there when the PD was turning it into a military occupation zone? If the boat thing was Plan A, he really really needed to make contingency plans and doesn't appear to have done so. The guy wasn't half as smart as he thought he was, apparently.

[Petar]

On the other hand, he got caught because of an innocent person he didn't kill who escaped.

The manifesto wasn't really a mistake, it was the whole point. The killing was a means to an end. The manifesto was the end.

On the other hand of what exactly? Is it not a good thing that an innocent person escaped, also bringing this killer to (questionable) justice? Why is everyone so obsessed with trying to figure out the best way that this guy could have gotten away with his crimes? Rooting for this loser makes us all look stupid.

[Lucille]

Like Uncle E said:


This Rambo was just a wannabe. He didn't have any of his shit together. He didn't hide in no mud. He didn't hide in the water sucking from a straw. He didn't shoot up no towns. And he was killed by stupid LA police officers.

Probably because he was a stupid LA police officer too. To be fair though, it seems like he thought he was signing up to be a peace officer to serve and protect the public, but he got a rude awakening.

[Acala]

On the other hand, he got caught because of an innocent person he didn't kill who escaped.


Or his inability to tie adequate knots.

[Acala]

The best result would have been for the women to have been armed with ar15s and killed him when he invaded their cabin.

[asurfaholic]

I havent seen hard evidence he killed anyone.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

In retrospect, where do we start?????????? Christopher Dorner, despite his credentials and ample preparation time, proved to be a lackluster adversary for the LAPD and surrounding units. Let us count the ways:

- the publication of his Manifesto which removed any element of surprise and essentially cordoned off his potential targets
- the decision not to create a few strategically placed weapon or supply caches made readily available if need be
- the decision to isolate yourself in the mountainous Big Bear Resort area with little opportunity to escape due to high visibility and limited road access.
- No thought about going into the wilderness like Eric Rudolph and waiting out your enemies in a well-stocked cave or spiderhole.

That isn't how tyranny works. Tyranny manipulates as a coward behind a nobility of strong men. It functions in mystery behind the scenes using secret organizations. In other words, we shouldn't be thinking of trading our lives for these cowards. We should think "Jaw bone of an ass." We should think that even a thousand of these cowards aren't worth wasting a bullet on. Instead of utilizing espionage, we should be open about trying to influence the police, the military, and the minor figures in the soviet styled commercial media over to the side of the people.
If we can't kill a thousand of these cowardly bastards with a jaw bone of an ass, we shouldn't concern ourselves. In order to avoid another Waco, we need to become friends with those minor figures within the police, the military, and the media corporations.
When people retire from the police and the military, they become part of the militia.
Regarding those who work within the media corporations, when converted, they become valuable members of the press. Most people don't understand the difference. As the media has always been a valuable propaganda organization for the king, the press is a valuable one for the people.

[erowe1]

On the other hand of what exactly? Is it not a good thing that an innocent person escaped

Sure it's a good thing. But it's a mark of his ineptitude, which was the point of the thread.

[pcosmar]

Assumes Facts Not in Evidence.

Assumes that the manifesto was authored by him, no proof of this has been presented.
Assumes prior planing. Facts do not support this theory.

instead it appears that he heard of his alleged crimes the same way we all did and chose flight rather than fight.
He had opportunity to target leadership while hiding within sight of the command post in Big Bear,,yet did not attack.
he did not kill those he came in contact with,, which subsequently notified police.

His tactical error was a fixed defensive position.. and not even a prepared position at that.

From my observations,, all is not as it is made to appear.

[Petar]

Assumes Facts Not in Evidence.

Assumes that the manifesto was authored by him, no proof of this has been presented.
Assumes prior planing. Facts do not support this theory.

instead it appears that he heard of his alleged crimes the same way we all did and chose flight rather than fight.
He had opportunity to target leadership while hiding within sight of the command post in Big Bear,,yet did not attack.
he did not kill those he came in contact with,, which subsequently notified police.

His tactical error was a fixed defensive position.. and not even a prepared position at that.

From my observations,, all is not as it is made to appear.

Earth to pcosmar: non-cops commit crimes too...

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

I havent seen hard evidence he killed anyone.

But it wouldn't seem to have helped president Obama any to have had another brother African American killed. This doesn't work as a conspiracy. First off, he didn't just kill whites. He killed an Asian and another African American. How does this help or hurt the gun debate?

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

I havent seen hard evidence he killed anyone.

But it wouldn't seem to have helped president Obama any to have had another brother African American killed. This doesn't work as a conspiracy. First off, he didn't just kill whites. He killed an Asian and another African American. How does this help or hurt the gun debate?

[TheTexan]

My take away from this whole Dorner thing is that there is zero sympathy for cops anymore and anyone who targets them will have public support. Which says a lot about where we are in our country right now...

Also public support is what wins wars, not the # of kills

[pcosmar]

Earth to pcosmar: non-cops commit crimes too...

And you think that I of all people don't know that?
What does it have to do with anything in my post?

or are you just trolling again?

[acptulsa]

Earth to pcosmar: non-cops commit crimes too...

Earth to Petar: Now then. Since you're so smart and so grounded in reality, why don't you come up with a way a non-cop or a group of non-cops did it all that fits all the know facts, including the three or four i.d. cards. Tell you what I'll do, just because I'm in a good mood--I'll let you consider ex-cops to be the same thing as non-cops.

[Petar]

And you think that I of all people don't know that?
What does it have to do with anything in my post?

or are you just trolling again?

You always assume that every psycho who the cops are after is just the absolute victim of a total conspiracy, yet you will never offer any kind of doubt in case it is a cop who is accused of a crime.

I just think that we are making fools of ourselves doing mental gymnastics trying to make this guy some kind of victim/hero, but I guess that we will have to respectfully disagree.

[Petar]

Earth to Petar: Now then. Since you're so smart and so grounded in reality, why don't you come up with a way a non-cop or a group of non-cops did it all that fits all the know facts, including the three or four i.d. cards. Tell you what I'll do, just because I'm in a good mood--I'll let you consider ex-cops to be the same thing as non-cops.

I'm not saying that there aren't inconsistencies on the mafia-in-blue side of this as well, but I think it's pretty clear that fuckface Dorner just went ahead and killed a couple of innocent people to get this whole thing started.

Of course I could be wrong and maybe it is all some big conspiracy against him, but does anyone have any real evidence of that at this point?

[Petar]

And no, I don't doubt the narrative that the background to how this all started was a conspiracy against Dorner, I just don't believe that he was framed for these deaths.

[pcosmar]

You always assume that every psycho who the cops are after is just the absolute victim of a total conspiracy, yet you will never offer any kind of doubt in case it is a cop who is accused of a crime.

.
You are full of shit. And that seems to be your habit of posting.
I have maintained Innocent till proven guilty. I have said many times that Cops need to be tried for crimes,, even when there was clear video evidence.

And yes,, I am quite familiar with the system,, having served 25 years for my crimes.

Have you ever been arrested.?. Have you ever been arrested by a SWAT unit?

Are you experienced?,, or have you ever been experienced?


well,, I have

[Petar]

You are full of shit. And that seems to be your habit of posting.
I have maintained Innocent till proven guilty. I have said many times that Cops need to be tried for crimes,, even when there was clear video evidence.

And yes,, I am quite familiar with the system,, having served 25 years for my crimes.

Have you ever been arrested.?. Have you ever been arrested by a SWAT unit?

Are you experienced?,, or have you ever been experienced?

Maybe we can meet for a beer some day and I can tell you about the time that a bunch of cops beat my ass. Then maybe you can also slap me silly for being so annoying on the internet.

[pcosmar]

Maybe we can meet for a beer some day and I can tell you about the time that a bunch of cops beat my ass. Then maybe you can also slap me silly for being so annoying on the internet.

Shit,, If you're buying I'll show you my tattoos and my scars.

[dannno]

Of course I could be wrong and maybe it is all some big conspiracy against him, but does anyone have any real evidence of that at this point?

Why would there be evidence, besides of course the whole war against guns and the war against us going on? And of course how it was handled by the media, Dorner, etc..

[Lucille]

Also, he should have called Charlie:

Christopher Dorner: Hollywood anti-hero casts self in real-life drama (+video) ("http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2013/0212/Christopher-Dorner-Hollywood-anti-hero-casts-self-in-real-life-drama-video)


Even Charlie Sheen asked the missing suspect to give him a call.

"Let's figure out together how to end this thing," the star of the TV series "Anger Management" says in a 17-second video posted on the website TMZ.com in which he also thanks Dorner for praising him as an actor.

[fisharmor]

His first and most glaring tactical mistake (as a human being) was killing innocent people. I don't know that any other details are really that important.

In order for this to be a mistake you have to take goals into consideration. You also have to assume that he didn't achieve his goals. If there's one thing Osama bin Laden tried to teach us, it's that if you have simple, well stated goals (bankrupting the USA), you stand a lot more chance of achieving that goal, especially if your opponent doesn't have a well-defined goal, or, as in our case, doesn't have a goal at all.

I think the first error in this thread is assuming that we can learn some kind of lesson from what Dorner did and discuss it without certain things getting more out in the open than some of us are comfortable with (and all of us ought not to be comfortable with). I will not go on record on an internet forum in support of the idea that at some point we may need to use things we learned in this episode. And I think as long as we're using Dorner as a surrogate for... well, let's just say "other parties", constructive criticism isn't going to go very far, because someone is always going to bring up the fact that he was a shitbag.

But I think Petar does have a relevant point. Those "other parties" can't succeed without a definite goal, and if that goal includes "kill parties that shoulder no direct blame", then you pretty much lose out the gate.

[TheTexan]

I think Dorner achieved all he set out to do

[Petar]

Shit,, If you're buying I'll show you my tattoos and my scars.

Yeah dude, I'd buy. Honestly, I think I may have come across you in late 2006 when I drove to Dearborn to go to a dinner hosted by the Ron Paul campaign. Someone there was a mountain man with a huge beard anyway. I'd love to get together with the vast majority of the people on this forum. There is at least one person who genuinely would beat the shit out of me if he could though, heh.

[pcosmar]

Yeah dude, I'd buy. Honestly, I think I may have come across you in late 2006 when I drove to Dearborn to go to a dinner hosted by the Ron Paul campaign. Someone there was a mountain man with a huge beard anyway. I'd love to get together with the vast majority of the people on this forum. There is at least one person who genuinely would beat the shit out of me if he could though, heh.
I doubt it.
I stay away from there if at all possible.
I was at Mackinac Island though,, no beard.

and I don't beat people up.

[Petar]

I doubt it.
I stay away from there if at all possible.
I was at Mackinac Island though,, no beard.

and I don't beat people up.

I see, the only other Ron Paul event that I attended was later that same day in Anne Arbor.

Let me tell you that felt historical, and I guess that it was also the event where Ron realized that something big was happening.

And no, I'm not trying to characterize you as violent.

I'm just making a joke about the fact that there is one person on this board that I wouldn't exactly feel safe around.

[AuH20]

The manifesto was only a mistake to the extent that he was a blowhard that claimed strategic ability he clearly didn't have. From the moment he burned that truck he should have done everything he could to get away from Big Bear. Why in the world would he stay near there when the PD was turning it into a military occupation zone? If the boat thing was Plan A, he really really needed to make contingency plans and doesn't appear to have done so. The guy wasn't half as smart as he thought he was, apparently.

Correct. A genuine special forces vet would have quietly and patiently removed his targets, while waiting for the final chapter to finally realease his manifesto. Dorner did in fact do the opposite and created a spectacle of himself while being unprepared to boot.

[BSU kid]

Even though I found Dorner interesting, the fact he murdered an innocent couple and officers who had nothing to do with his corruption case make me feel little sympathy for him. However tactically, I think his dumbest move was going into that cabin...as an ex-cop he should have known that meant death. Float down the River behind the Cabin or run your ass through the woods, but don't go into a cabin where you will be burned to death.

[AuH20]

Even though I found Dorner interesting, the fact he murdered an innocent couple and officers who had nothing to do with his corruption case make me feel little sympathy for him. However tactically, I think his dumbest move was going into that cabin...as an ex-cop he should have known that meant death. Float down the River behind the Cabin or run your ass through the woods, but don't go into a cabin where you will be burned to death.

Or break out the .50 cal so as to create some separation room between you and the police choppers. Also, where was this MANPAD SAM he allegedly procured?

[dannno]

I'm just making a joke about the fact that there is one person on this board that I wouldn't exactly feel safe around.

Never troll a full retard.

[pcosmar]

I'm just making a joke about the fact that there is one person on this board that I wouldn't exactly feel safe around.

That would be your mistake.
My home has always been a shelter.
I have even had a cop bring a beat up and bloody girl, and her daughter to my home,, because it was a safe place.

;)

I really am not the dangerous one.

[Spikender]

Dorner didn't know what he was doing really. The LAPD didn't know what they were doing really. The only thing I'm sure of when it comes to this is that the LAPD really had no intentions of taking Dorner alive. You could see by their actions how desperate they were to kill this man. They shot at random people just because they thought it was Dorner in a vehicle. Whether Dorner was innocent or not I cannot say, but I do know that he should've been put on trial for his crimes. One could say that when Dorner was holed up, the police were afraid to try to take him alive for fear of being shot by him; but it's clear that the LAPD themselves established that they were going to kill him on sight with their actions, so it of course figures that he would fight in order to stay alive.

I have a feeling there's going to be a lot in this case we just won't be able to figure out.

[pcosmar]

, the fact he murdered an innocent couple .

:confused:
Fact?

It is an unsubstantiated accusation. Not a fact.

[BSU kid]

Or break out the .50 cal so as to create some separation room between you and the police choppers. Also, where was this MANPAD SAM he allegedly procured?

Better yet he shouldn't have torched his car if it wasn't meant to be a distraction, it probably would have bought him a day or two more before somebody saw it and recognized it as his.

[AuH20]

Dorner didn't know what he was doing really. The LAPD didn't know what they were doing really. The only thing I'm sure of when it comes to this is that the LAPD really had no intentions of taking Dorner alive. You could see by their actions how desperate they were to kill this man. They shot at random people just because they thought it was Dorner in a vehicle. Whether Dorner was innocent or not I cannot say, but I do know that he should've been put on trial for his crimes. One could say that when Dorner was holed up, the police were afraid to try to take him alive for fear of being shot by him; but it's clear that the LAPD themselves established that they were going to kill him on sight with their actions, so it of course figures that he would fight in order to stay alive.

I have a feeling there's going to be a lot in this case we just won't be able to figure out.

When the LAPD chief announced the day before that "Enough is enough", you knew that it wasn't going to be a happy ending. Dorner must have cost the department several milion dollars in OT.

[Spikender]

When the LAPD chief announced the day before that "Enough is enough", you knew that it wasn't going to be a happy ending. Dorner must have cost them several milion dollars in OT.

Dorner wasn't getting a happy ending either way, but I agree that the LAPD chief's announcement pretty much meant that Dorner's ending was probably going to come sooner than later.

Although I won't jump the gun until I'm positive Dorner was the one who was burnt alive. Still too much shaky stuff surrounding this case to be sure of a lot of things.

[pcosmar]

Dorner must have cost the department several milion dollars in OT.

Nope, not Dorner.

Whoever ordered the massive response cost the taxpayers millions.

[AuH20]

Also, what model year was Dorner's vehicle?????? Did it have GPS installed??????????

[Petar]

Never troll a full retard.

I think that UEM is a closet genius and I wouldn't necessarily feel threatened with him around.

[pcosmar]

Ok, Geniuses and de-bunkers,,

Out splitting my daily wood,,and mentally reviewing,, I had a thought..(at least one)

How did they distinguish a single shot (as reported) from the exploding ammo that was so dangerous as to keep firefighters away?

ponder on that.

[BSU kid]

Ok, Geniuses and de-bunkers,,

Out splitting my daily wood,,and mentally reviewing,, I had a thought..(at least one)

How did they distinguish a single shot (as reported) from the exploding ammo that was so dangerous as to keep firefighters away?

ponder on that.

Was the exploding ammo being fired? I'm pretty sure it was just blowing up, but I am no expert on such things.

[pcosmar]

Was the exploding ammo being fired? I'm pretty sure it was just blowing up, but I am no expert on such things.

Well,, lets see..
There is a roaring fire The crackling of wood,, and ammo cooking off. and yet one of them close enough to tell that a single shot came from inside the building..

no one shooting at them from inside the building,,trying to get out?

Ever been near a fully engulfed structure fire? (pretty damn hot)

Just another piece of "info" that doesn't really add up.

[asurfaholic]

But it wouldn't seem to have helped president Obama any to have had another brother African American killed. This doesn't work as a conspiracy. First off, he didn't just kill whites. He killed an Asian and another African American. How does this help or hurt the gun debate?

The hell are you talking about?? I didnt say anything about conspiracies or gun debate..

Im talking about being accused of a crime that you didnt commit. I have been arrested on completely bogus charges before, so i take care to respect that little about "innocent until proven guilty."

You should too.

[Seraphim]

UEW - best post I've ever seen from you.


That isn't how tyranny works. Tyranny manipulates as a coward behind a nobility of strong men. It functions in mystery behind the scenes using secret organizations. In other words, we shouldn't be thinking of trading our lives for these cowards. We should think "Jaw bone of an ass." We should think that even a thousand of these cowards aren't worth wasting a bullet on. Instead of utilizing espionage, we should be open about trying to influence the police, the military, and the minor figures in the soviet styled commercial media over to the side of the people.
If we can't kill a thousand of these cowardly bastards with a jaw bone of an ass, we shouldn't concern ourselves. In order to avoid another Waco, we need to become friends with those minor figures within the police, the military, and the media corporations.
When people retire from the police and the military, they become part of the militia.
Regarding those who work within the media corporations, when converted, they become valuable members of the press. Most people don't understand the difference. As the media has always been a valuable propaganda organization for the king, the press is a valuable one for the people.

[erowe1]

Ok, Geniuses and de-bunkers,,

Out splitting my daily wood,,and mentally reviewing,, I had a thought..(at least one)

How did they distinguish a single shot (as reported) from the exploding ammo that was so dangerous as to keep firefighters away?

ponder on that.

I don't think anybody's saying the cops didn't want Dorner to burn in there.

Are they?