Do you believe this stuff?

[pcosmar]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/charred-remains-found-christopher-dorner-hideout-article-1.1262828
Driver's license of Christopher Dorner found with charred human remains in cabin where ex-LAPD was hiding



Years ago I had a mobile home that burned.. The fire was limited to the kitchen at the front of the house, the living room was scorched.

Down the hallway past two closed doors and completely untouched by flames,, all the plastics in the bathroom were melted. Shower curtain,,shampoo and deodorant.. even the disposable shavers were melted.

Yet somehow in this intense inferno that burned to the basement below ground level,, and on the chard and unidentifiable body..

They found his Drivers License.
:eek:
.

[ZENemy]

That is just as believable as the terrorist passport that was found down the street from the 911 building. Lol

[RockEnds]

His wallet was wrapped up in his flame retardant jammies? (Sorry. I just had to say that.)


No, I find it hard to believe.

[fisharmor]

At this point I don't even believe Dorner killed anybody.

[kathy88]

Oh FFS they really think we're stupid, don't they? I thought his license was found by some boat place last week?

[pcosmar]

Oh FFS they really think we're stupid, don't they? I thought his license was found by some boat place last week?

And on a Bus.

[kathy88]

And on a Bus.


Right. He had 3. I have 3. You?

[squarepusher]

Dorner is innocent and a hero.

[Acala]

Assuming that everything reported up until the last confrontation was true, (big assumption I know), but that it turns out Dorner escaped with his life and they are covering it up, they are doomed to fail because dorner will continue to torment them. They can't let him escape and make it look like they didn't. He wouldn't cooperate with that. So why would they fabricate this? No doubt they WOULD if they had a reason, but I don't see what they hope to gain.

[phill4paul]

BEYOND belief. Beyond belief that a drivers license survived. Beyond belief that they would use this same tired story. Beyond belief that some will believe it.

[squarepusher]

Assuming that everything reported up until the last confrontation was true, (big assumption I know), but that it turns out Dorner escaped with his life and they are covering it up, they are doomed to fail because dorner will continue to torment them. They can't let him escape and make it look like they didn't. He wouldn't cooperate with that. So why would they fabricate this? No doubt they WOULD if they had a reason, but I don't see what they hope to gain.

Don't believe anything the government says. This is probably just a manufactured conspiracy to ban guns and coverup the LAPD lies and corruption, Dorner I doubt ever stepped foot into Big Bear or was anywhere near the area.

[fisharmor]

I can't find any evidence of finding a license on the bus or at the boat rental place. Anyone got links?

[phill4paul]

Dorner is innocent and a hero.

The state never lies and is infallible.

[pcosmar]

So why would they fabricate this? No doubt they WOULD if they had a reason, but I don't see what they hope to gain.

Conditioning the population for Martial Law. Complete suspension of all civil rights.

[Spikender]

Conditioning the population for Martial Law. Complete suspension of all civil rights.

I say they're doing a pretty bang up job of that, at least from the conversations I've had with people on recent events, especially those concerning Dorner. I'd like to say you'd be surprised by the sort of boot-licking stuff I hear, but I fear that it wouldn't surprise you in the least.

[pcosmar]

I can't find any evidence of finding a license on the bus or at the boat rental place. Anyone got links?

Story a few days ago,, he left a badge and ID on a Bus.
Someone corrected me then, that it wasn't "his" badge, but a detective badge. (his would have been turned in years ago)

[coastie]

I believe it about as much as I believe he would be stupid enough to have his id on him during this to begin with. He of all people would know better than to do that.

[pacodever]

I think he also had military, police ids/badges that were found previously in SD and other places. But a driver's license surviving what appeared to be a total inferno is NOT believable. The cabin burned down to the basement and a piece of plastic remained intact and identifiable? Not sure what type of plastic IDs are made of but from the following links, it does not seem possible with temperatures reaching as much as 1400 degrees in a typical house fire that the plastic would remain intact. I guess it would be possible if the ID was still located in his wallet (what possible reason would there be for still having your ID at that point) on the floor as far away from direct flame as possible or perhaps in the basement, but I haven't heard anything about where the body & ID were located in the house.

Plastic melting temps:
http://www.plastictroubleshooter.com/ThePlasticTroubleshooter/melt_temps.htm

House fire temps:
http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/fire00/PDF/f00136.pdf

[phill4paul]

Story a few days ago,, he left a badge and ID on a Bus.
Someone corrected me then, that it wasn't "his" badge, but a detective badge. (his would have been turned in years ago)

Accuracy in reporting of course may vary.....


Thursday - Feb. 7 [2:30 a.m.]: A passer-by found a wallet with an LAPD badge and a picture ID of Dorner on a street near San Diego International Airport. The items were turned over to police.

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local/inland_empire&id=8984280

[kathy88]

Dorner is innocent and a hero.

No one is claiming he is innocent or a hero. We are discussing the misinformation being distributed via the propaganda arm of the government, namely the MSM.

[pcosmar]

No one is claiming he is innocent or a hero. We are discussing the misinformation being distributed via the propaganda arm of the government, namely the MSM.
I am not and have not called him a hero.
I call him (yet another) victim.

[pacodever]

Thursday - Feb. 7 [2:30 a.m.]: A passer-by found a wallet with an LAPD badge and a picture ID of Dorner on a street near San Diego International Airport. The items were turned over to police.


BIG BEAR LAKE, Calif. (AP) -- An official briefed on the investigation tells The Associated Press that a wallet with a California driver's license with the name Christopher Dorner has been found in the rubble of a cabin.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/13/christopher-dorner-drivers-license-id-cabin-_n_2677590.html

So the guy had time to go to the store and pick out another wallet during one of the largest manhunts in history? I only carry one with me and definitely wouldn't have time or inclination to go wallet shopping if I was on the run. I would think the first thing he would do is ditch the license like he did the others to throw the police off his trail.

[Pericles]

Right. He had 3. I have 3. You?

I have one for each day of the week - maybe I need more - one for each weapon I own.

[RockEnds]

Fire must have cooled down really quickly for them to be able to locate a wallet already this morning.

[Occam's Banana]

Prison-camp irony most definitely intended ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jGpauNUaWY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jGpauNUaWY

[juleswin]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/charred-remains-found-christopher-dorner-hideout-article-1.1262828
Driver's license of Christopher Dorner found with charred human remains in cabin where ex-LAPD was hiding



Years ago I had a mobile home that burned.. The fire was limited to the kitchen at the front of the house, the living room was scorched.

Down the hallway past two closed doors and completely untouched by flames,, all the plastics in the bathroom were melted. Shower curtain,,shampoo and deodorant.. even the disposable shavers were melted.

Yet somehow in this intense inferno that burned to the basement below ground level,, and on the chard and unidentifiable body..

They found his Drivers License.
:eek:
.

Actually it is very possible if he was laying on the license face down, the license could easily avoid getting charred by the fire. Human beings are very hard to completely burn

[kathy88]

Actually it is very possible if he was laying on the license face down, the license could easily avoid getting charred by the fire. Human beings are very hard to completely burn

And if I had a penis I'd be a man.

[juleswin]

Fire must have cooled down really quickly for them to be able to locate a wallet already this morning.

Definitely seeing as the fire happened on a snow covered mountain. The hard to believe part is that he was still running around with his license in his pocket cos I could believe a fat guy sitting on a wallet can protect a license from melting.

[juleswin]

And if I had a penis I'd be a man.

lol, chances are not that high but you can see from the pictures that he was a fat guy (lots of hard to burn fleshy cushion and water). Now imagine if he was wedged to a concrete wall in the basement with the wallet sittin on the side of the concrete was and facing down. I am just saying that this could happen unlike the passport of one of the hijackers surviving the WTS crash.

[The Gold Standard]

At this point I don't even believe Dorner killed anybody.

Pretty much.

[Acala]

They think they got him or they wouldn't make the show. It would just make them seem more stupid when he showed up on youtube taunting them. They are stupid, but not THAT stupid. The driver's license, assuming it is a fake (which I tend to think it is) is just spin to stop any speculation.

[RockEnds]

Another thing that I'm wondering about, reports indicated the fire was setting off ammunition in the house. I've never had a house fire, but one of my ex's did. I wasn't there, but I did wake him up when someone called in the middle of the night to tell him his house was on fire. He drove out, and when he came back, he told me that the police asked him if he had bullets in the house because they thought they heard them exploding. It wasn't ammo. It was the canned goods in the pantry.

Kinda makes me wonder if maybe there were some canned goods in that cabin.

[pacodever]

Well, at least the police can sleep easy knowing that they got their guy and something like this could NEVER happen again within their tight-knit organization... :rolleyes:

Every LAPD officer is looking around wondering if and when another one of their buddies is going to snap. You can be sure they will think twice in any complaint hearings. Can't say this is for the better though. I don't want a bunch of high strung cops running around. Maybe after another incident or two, people will finally turn on them.

[kathy88]

Another thing that I'm wondering about, reports indicated the fire was setting off ammunition in the house. I've never had a house fire, but one of my ex's did. I wasn't there, but I did wake him up when someone called in the middle of the night to tell him his house was on fire. He drove out, and when he came back, he told me that the police asked him if he had bullets in the house because they thought they heard them exploding. It wasn't ammo. It was the canned goods in the pantry.

Kinda makes me wonder if maybe there were some canned goods in that cabin.

I kinda doubt it. It wasn't a cabin like you or I would think cabin, like a place where people live simply and can their food. It was a "rent a cabin" for yuppies pretending to be roughing it without wireless for a weekend.

[kathy88]

Well, at least the police can sleep easy knowing that they got their guy and something like this could NEVER happen again within their tight-knit organization... :rolleyes:

Every LAPD officer is looking around wondering if and when another one of their buddies is going to snap. You can be sure they will think twice in any complaint hearings. Can't say this is for the better though. I don't want a bunch of high strung cops running around. Maybe after another incident or two, people will finally turn on them.

I doubt anything will change internally unless the public keeps the pressure on, and everytime one of those you tubez show up we hound them until justice is served. Justice as we know it, not them.

[pcosmar]

Kinda makes me wonder if maybe there were some canned goods in that cabin.

Odd,, That's what the Germans called them too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident


To make the attack seem more convincing, the Germans brought in Franciszek Honiok, a German Silesian known for sympathizing with the Poles, who had been arrested the previous day by the Gestapo. Honiok was dressed to look like a saboteur; then killed by lethal injection, given gunshot wounds, and left dead at the scene, so that he appeared to have been killed while attacking the station. His corpse was subsequently presented as proof of the attack to the police and press.[4]

In addition to Honiok, several other prisoners from the Dachau concentration camp[2] were kept available for this purpose.[3] The Germans referred to them by the code phrase "Konserve" ("canned goods"). For this reason, some sources incorrectly refer to the incident as "Operation Canned Goods."[5] In an oral testimony at the trials, Erwin von Lahousen stated that his division of the Abwehr was one of two that were given the task of providing Polish uniforms, equipment and identification cards, and that he was later told by Wilhelm Canaris that people from concentration camps had been disguised in these uniforms and ordered to attack the radio station.

[phill4paul]

lol, chances are not that high but you can see from the pictures that he was a fat guy (lots of hard to burn fleshy cushion and water). Now imagine if he was wedged to a concrete wall in the basement with the wallet sittin on the side of the concrete was and facing down. I am just saying that this could happen unlike the passport of one of the hijackers surviving the WTS crash.

From what I understand subcutaneous fat leads to a higher, longer burn time. The fat is pulled into the char which acts as a wick creating a longer more intense burn.

[Danke]

Dorner is innocent and a hero.

http://www.memes.at/faces/troll_face.jpg

[parocks]

That is just as believable as the terrorist passport that was found down the street from the 911 building. Lol

was gonna say. Atta.

[RockEnds]

I kinda doubt it. It wasn't a cabin like you or I would think cabin, like a place where people live simply and can their food. It was a "rent a cabin" for yuppies pretending to be roughing it without wireless for a weekend.

If it was an empty rental--like a campground kind of cabin--then probably not. We had a weekend cabin on the Mississippi for awhile, and I kept can goods there. I sure didn't leave the fresh fruit when we left Sunday afternoon. But rentals are different. Those are usually bare except for furniture, linens, and cookware when they're not occupied.

[jmdrake]

I say they're doing a pretty bang up job of that, at least from the conversations I've had with people on recent events, especially those concerning Dorner. I'd like to say you'd be surprised by the sort of boot-licking stuff I hear, but I fear that it wouldn't surprise you in the least.

I have to admit. Seeing fellow RPFers defend burning down the house as if "The police had no other choice" more than a bit disconcerting. Regardless of Dorner's guilt or innocence, burning down the house was a b*tch move. (If that's indeed what happened).

[Danke]

And if I had a penis I'd be a man.

No, you'd be a hermaphrodite.

[libertygrl]

That is just as believable as the terrorist passport that was found down the street from the 911 building. Lol

I was just thinking the same thing. Oh please don't let this be another consipracy! My brain can't handle anymore. :eek:

[pcosmar]

I have to admit. Seeing fellow RPFers defend burning down the house as if "The police had no other choice" more than a bit disconcerting. Regardless of Dorner's guilt or innocence, burning down the house was a b*tch move. (If that's indeed what happened).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=24WJr4Ye8xY#!

[Spikender]

I have to admit. Seeing fellow RPFers defend burning down the house as if "The police had no other choice" more than a bit disconcerting. Regardless of Dorner's guilt or innocence, burning down the house was a b*tch move. (If that's indeed what happened).

They're the police, they do what they want and you and the other mundanes better agree or you're a domestic terrorist.

You might just be found in a pile of ashes with nothing but your wallet left.

Just sayin'.

[kathy88]

They burned this man alive. (Supposedly). And people HERE of all places, are defending that. Unreal. So, from now forward all convicted (not that Dorner was) murderers should be burned alive? Or just this one. Who was convicted of NOTHING?

[jmdrake]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=24WJr4Ye8xY#!

Yeah....I know. There is this inconvenient thing called "physical evidence" ...which most people will ignore today and one year from now dismiss as conspiracy talk.

[kcchiefs6465]

And on a Bus.
And at a border crossing.

[shane77m]

If LL Cool J comes up missing it might have been him in the cabin.

[pacelli]

That is just as believable as the terrorist passport that was found down the street from the 911 building. Lol

Good call, i was gonna say myself, Saudi Arabia has magic fucking passports, now Commiefornia has magic fucking drivers licenses.


Must be another benefit to REAL-ID.


Oh, no no, this is just conspiracy talk. I guess SPONTANEOUS HUMAN COMBUSTION is a better explanation!?

[donnay]

Actually it is very possible if he was laying on the license face down, the license could easily avoid getting charred by the fire. Human beings are very hard to completely burn

Really? The fires on 9/11 vaporized fuselages, engines, landing gear, black boxes, people and luggage--just from the standpoint of the Pentagon. The fires on 9/11 melted office furniture--computers, fax machines and phones. The fires on 9/11 burned up building materials, melted steel beams, pulverized concrete and glass yet, one of the alleged terrorist's passport was found in mint condition. :eek:

[Spikender]

They burned this man alive. (Supposedly). And people HERE of all places, are defending that. Unreal. So, from now forward all convicted (not that Dorner was) murderers should be burned alive? Or just this one. Who was convicted of NOTHING?

I agree. Innocent until proven guilty.

Apparently our resident "peace officers" at the LAPD and abroad have forgotten that little tidbit. Shoot first, ask questions later is their answer to everything.

And hell, they even forget the ask questions later part sometimes too.

[dannno]

I can't find any evidence of finding a license on the bus or at the boat rental place. Anyone got links?

Apparently they found his old LAPD badge near the boat he tried to steal in San Diego.

Why he would be carrying a 5 year old badge around is beyond me, although I guess it might be convenient to have if he wanted to flash it at people he was robbing, just before he robbed them to sort of psyche them out.

[thetruthhurtsthefed]

Fire must have cooled down really quickly for them to be able to locate a wallet already this morning.

No fire doesn't cool down.....it melts steel and makes entire sky scrapers collapse upon themselves....even ones that were not hit by "missl....-planes"

[ItsTime]

The magic, fireproof, wallet that can travel through space and time!

[shane77m]

The magic, fireproof, wallet that can travel through space and time!

That sounds better than that aluminum wallet that can block card readers.

[Natural Citizen]

Dorner is innocent and a hero.

Bullshit. You don't go around killing people willy nilly and get labeled a hero. Well...not unless there are some rather unstable dolts who require such a role model. Dafuxamatter with you?

[kathy88]

Bullshit. You don't go around killing people willy nilly and get labeled a hero. Well...not unless there are some rather unstable dolts who require such a role model. Dafuxamatter with you?

He was referring to people disagreeing with him being burned alive. Apparently he's guilty so deserved it.

[CaptainAmerica]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/charred-remains-found-christopher-dorner-hideout-article-1.1262828
Driver's license of Christopher Dorner found with charred human remains in cabin where ex-LAPD was hiding



Years ago I had a mobile home that burned.. The fire was limited to the kitchen at the front of the house, the living room was scorched.

Down the hallway past two closed doors and completely untouched by flames,, all the plastics in the bathroom were melted. Shower curtain,,shampoo and deodorant.. even the disposable shavers were melted.

Yet somehow in this intense inferno that burned to the basement below ground level,, and on the chard and unidentifiable body..

They found his Drivers License.
:eek:
.

In arizona I had a friend who left his drivers license on his dashboard one summer day and it melted from 120 degree weather. Im sure there would be absolutely nothing left of the id if it did burn in a fire.

[Anti Federalist]

Do you believe this shit?

Ummmmm....

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTW-OzBpkdgOJCRBYRYbwIB9DPXMVOzXXq8sSZ08wKsUUA0YG1c

[Luciconsort]

they should have just sprinkled some crack on him like they do all the other black people in LA after they are killed by the LAPD.

[Original_Intent]

No, you'd be a hermaphrodite.

Or Lorena Bobbet. Well played.

[Spikender]

they should have just sprinkled some crack on him like they do all the other black people in LA after they are killed by the LAPD.

Maybe throw a pistol and a few ammo casings down beside him for good measure.

[pcosmar]

Has anyone taken a good look at his Truck that was abandoned and burned? Anyone with any knowledge and experience with car fires?

That took some effort to burn it that entirely.. and I have only seen similar twice. Once was a vehicle that was inside a garage that burned to the ground around it and the other was a junkyard fire that burned for days.

There was a very deliberate attempt to burn every square inch of that vehicle. (hint,,tires are hard to light,,takes a lot of heat)

an engine fire will burn the front of a car. a gas tank will burn the rear (usually) and sometimes interior.

A Molotov tossed through a window will burn the interior..

That truck was burned end to end and all four tires.. Lights , glass everything burned to ash,, no paint left anywhere.

And yet they found survival gear that he left behind. (in the truck)

http://rotwnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/BLUE-Truck2.jpg

http://www.kcra.com/image/view/-/18465180/medRes/2/-/b4e30t/-/img-Manhunt-continues-for-former-LAPD-officer.jpg

Hmm.

[Spikender]

Has anyone taken a good look at his Truck that was abandoned and burned? Anyone with any knowledge and experience with car fires?

That took some effort to burn it that entirely.. and I have only seen similar twice. Once was a vehicle that was inside a garage that burned to the ground around it and the other was a junkyard fire that burned for days.

There was a very deliberate attempt to burn every square inch of that vehicle. (hint,,tires are hard to light,,takes a lot of heat)

an engine fire will burn the front of a car. a gas tank will burn the rear (usually) and sometimes interior.

A Molotov tossed through a window will burn the interior..

That truck was burned end to end and all four tires.. Lights , glass everything burned to ash,, no paint left anywhere.

And yet they found survival gear that he left behind. (in the truck)

http://rotwnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/BLUE-Truck2.jpg

http://www.kcra.com/image/view/-/18465180/medRes/2/-/b4e30t/-/img-Manhunt-continues-for-former-LAPD-officer.jpg

Hmm.

Obviously the gear was made of the same resistant material as Dorner's wallet.

Obviously.

[shane77m]

Obviously the gear was made of the same resistant material as Dorner's wallet.

Obviously.

They need to start lining buildings with that material. That be some good stuff.

I have seen vehicles catch fire. Usually always just the engine area that is burnt.

[Spikender]

They need to start lining buildings with that material. That be some good stuff.

I have seen vehicles catch fire. Usually always just the engine area that is burnt.

I don't know, it seems that only Dorner had access to this extremely fire-proof material. Now that he's dead, I fear the secret to this awesome technology is now lost...

Speaking of burning vehicles, there was a Jeep Cherokee on fire on the side of the Interstate last Thursday. There were already cops and other people helping out so I decided just to cruise by instead of getting in their way, but it was only the engine that was engulfed in flames. It didn't appear to be spreading to any other part of the car, and these flames were very high and obviously very hot. You could smell it and feel the heat just from driving by.

I don't know what to make of Dorner's vehicle. Either the man was very determined to burn that thing, or the police did the work for him to eliminate something they didn't want found.

[armstrong]

so three sets of ID found ???? , three places ,,,,hmmmm

[kcchiefs6465]

Has anyone taken a good look at his Truck that was abandoned and burned? Anyone with any knowledge and experience with car fires?

That took some effort to burn it that entirely.. and I have only seen similar twice. Once was a vehicle that was inside a garage that burned to the ground around it and the other was a junkyard fire that burned for days.

There was a very deliberate attempt to burn every square inch of that vehicle. (hint,,tires are hard to light,,takes a lot of heat)

an engine fire will burn the front of a car. a gas tank will burn the rear (usually) and sometimes interior.

A Molotov tossed through a window will burn the interior..

That truck was burned end to end and all four tires.. Lights , glass everything burned to ash,, no paint left anywhere.

And yet they found survival gear that he left behind. (in the truck)

Hmm.
I've never seen/nor would ever imagine a car window getting hot enough to melt. I would maybe think they shattered the windows into the truck to make sure they didn't come out/fall off during tow? (At least with the front windshield I could see that scenario, the stripping would have melted and the windshield probably wasn't held in place by much) WRT to the paint I could see, have seen, that type of damage in a car fire. The only time it was that significant was when they poured gasoline over the vehicle and lit it on fire. The windows were of course still there. Tires aren't that hard to catch on fire either. Rubber actually makes a very good fuel. It burns really hot and once you get it going it will not go out. Good thing to remember if you are ever in a cold situation- plastics, rubber, etc. burn very hot. I've warmed up a few times using plastic bags to get wet wood going. Rubber coating is something I'd rather not talk about. ;)


ETA: Oh, and as to the survival gear found, that would have to be some bullshit. Only thing I could think of would be the scuba tanks or something being still there. Any kind of blankets, tents etc. would have undoubtedly burned up. (Maybe tent poles were found or something?) I really couldn't say. Seems fishy but 'survival gear' is so broad it really could be anything.

[Anti Federalist]

Has anyone taken a good look at his Truck that was abandoned and burned? Anyone with any knowledge and experience with car fires?

Like that woman that was shot by cops near San Diego.

http://kfmb.images.worldnow.com/images/19669131_BG2.jpg

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?391297-Plain-clothes-cop-kills-mother-of-5&highlight=woman+shot+cop+hood+car

Full grown man, the cop, claimed he was thrashing around on the hood of, what the hell was that, a mid nineties Pontiac or Saturn, in fear of his life and had no choice but to kill this woman.

Point being that was another one of those "urban assault" cars that had a three inch thick Kevlar hood I guess, since there was not so much as a dent on it.

Plastic IDs and "survival gear" that doesn't burn up in a raging house or car fire...must be made of the same shit, huh?

[mczerone]

At this point I don't even believe Dorner killed anybody.

Good thing they apprehended him and will take him to trial to find the facts... Oh, right.

[acptulsa]

Good thing they apprehended him and will take him to trial to find the facts... Oh, right.

Trials reveal truth. Funerals bury it.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

They think they got him or they wouldn't make the show. It would just make them seem more stupid when he showed up on youtube taunting them. They are stupid, but not THAT stupid. The driver's license, assuming it is a fake (which I tend to think it is) is just spin to stop any speculation.


Much like OBL. And also a little extra push that your state ID is what makes you a person. (or a non-person.)


I also noticed the "media" is showing a new menacing picture of him... no longer the guy shaking hands with the police chief.

[John F Kennedy III]

I don't believe it for a second.

[nayjevin]

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