Thank you to your service to our country

[tangent4ronpaul]

My dad passed away a few years ago. I inquired about an honor guard. He served 16+ years in the AF. That only rated 2 guys and a couple of blanks. The real slap in the face was the coffin draper. You know, the US flag. It was very flimsy. Like handle with caution as even light handling would tear it. It came with a small piece of paper saying to not expose it to water or sunlight. It received a few rain drops and the ink ran. It also had a tag that said "Made in China".

This is what your service is worth to the US Gvmt. Remember that the next time you hear some politician say say "Thank you for your service". Remember that before you even think of enlisting!

-t

[AuH20]

Was it one piece or stitched? The flag my family received in the early 1980s for my Grandfather was heavy fabric, multi-piece and stitched. It's very impressive.

[phill4paul]

Sorry to hear of the loss. I salute him. Don't rely on the government. Rely on those who have served. I have seen both the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars put on some nice funerals locally.

[moostraks]

So sorry about your loss.

[TonySutton]

That is pretty lame. I had the honor of participating in several honor guards while working at a reserve base and again when I was a recruiter. I was saddened by the varied effort that was afforded veterans based on the connections of their family/friends. I am surprised groups have not formed to handle honor guard duties for veterans.

[RockEnds]

I'm pretty sure that in order to get the full 9 man team, the person has to be retired or active duty. When my dad died, I made the contacts for the military honors, and he did get a full team from Offutt. If he hadn't been a retiree, I would have gone with the Legion guys. Where I live, the American Legion will do the full graveside service and present the family with a flag, although I don't think it's framed. Personally, I would have preferred that over the two man team. I don't know what kind of flag my dad got because it went to his widow (his 3rd wife). She and I no longer speak, and I've never seen it.

ETA: Well, in fact, my adoptive dad is 80. He's a Korean War Vet. Provided I outlive him, it will be the American Legion I call to do his graveside service.

[phill4paul]

That is pretty lame. I had the honor of participating in several honor guards while working at a reserve base and again when I was a recruiter. I was saddened by the varied effort that was afforded veterans based on the connections of their family/friends. I am surprised groups have not formed to handle honor guard duties for veterans.

American Legion: http://www.tybeetyme.com/american_legion/funeral_honors_ceremony.pdf

V.F.W.: http://faq.vfw.org/faq/index.php?View=entry&EntryID=374

[oyarde]

My dad passed away a few years ago. I inquired about an honor guard. He served 16+ years in the AF. That only rated 2 guys and a couple of blanks. The real slap in the face was the coffin draper. You know, the US flag. It was very flimsy. Like handle with caution as even light handling would tear it. It came with a small piece of paper saying to not expose it to water or sunlight. It received a few rain drops and the ink ran. It also had a tag that said "Made in China".

This is what your service is worth to the US Gvmt. Remember that the next time you hear some politician say say "Thank you for your service". Remember that before you even think of enlisting!

-t Sorry about your experience. Not good .That would never happen where I live . Here the funeral director would contact the Legion or VFW and all would be taken care of for you.

[Pericles]

Sorry about your experience. Not good .That would never happen where I live . Here the funeral director would contact the Legion or VFW and all would be taken care of for you.

That is about the only circumstance where I'll do uniforms. The VA was taking volunteers from ex GIs to do graveside services.

[RabbitMan]

My dad passed away a few years ago. I inquired about an honor guard. He served 16+ years in the AF. That only rated 2 guys and a couple of blanks. The real slap in the face was the coffin draper. You know, the US flag. It was very flimsy. Like handle with caution as even light handling would tear it. It came with a small piece of paper saying to not expose it to water or sunlight. It received a few rain drops and the ink ran. It also had a tag that said "Made in China".

This is what your service is worth to the US Gvmt. Remember that the next time you hear some politician say say "Thank you for your service". Remember that before you even think of enlisting!

-t

Sorry to hear that. It's strange about your flag though, I thought the US military had to buy 'Made in America' because of the...Bradley Bill or something like that. Ugh!

[oyarde]

I do not own a uniform and have no wish to shave my beard.Few small shrapnel scars on the chin , no desire to run a razor over.Otherwise I would probably be willing to pitch in a little with this in my local area.

[emazur]

This is what your service is worth to the US Gvmt.


I hope I don't sound like a jerk, but to be honest I don't think the government should have offered ANY materials and/or human resources for your dad's funeral unless he died in the line of duty or his life was cut short as a result of an injury sustained while on duty.

Probably he was already 'thanked' well by the government with monetary, educational, and other benefits only offered to military members and their family.

[bolil]

My dad passed away a few years ago. I inquired about an honor guard. He served 16+ years in the AF. That only rated 2 guys and a couple of blanks. The real slap in the face was the coffin draper. You know, the US flag. It was very flimsy. Like handle with caution as even light handling would tear it. It came with a small piece of paper saying to not expose it to water or sunlight. It received a few rain drops and the ink ran. It also had a tag that said "Made in China".

This is what your service is worth to the US Gvmt. Remember that the next time you hear some politician say say "Thank you for your service". Remember that before you even think of enlisting!

-t

Im sorry you lost your dad. And screw them.

My dad wants a military burial aswell. Guess Ill be buying a gadsen flag.

[sailingaway]

Was it one piece or stitched? The flag my family received in the early 1980s for my Grandfather was heavy fabric, multi-piece and stitched. It's very impressive.

There weren't so many wars going on and dead in the 80s perhaps, not to mention we were just starting the race to devalue our dollar.

I'm sorry tangent. That is a real shame.

[sailingaway]

Im sorry you lost your dad. And screw them.

My dad wants a military burial aswell. Guess Ill be buying a gadsen flag.

there you go.

Sheesh. Well, now we know to get heavy flags for friends in that circumstance. I wonder if the army will deliver it if friends bring it to them?

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

My dad passed away a few years ago. I inquired about an honor guard. He served 16+ years in the AF. That only rated 2 guys and a couple of blanks. The real slap in the face was the coffin draper. You know, the US flag. It was very flimsy. Like handle with caution as even light handling would tear it. It came with a small piece of paper saying to not expose it to water or sunlight. It received a few rain drops and the ink ran. It also had a tag that said "Made in China".

This is what your service is worth to the US Gvmt. Remember that the next time you hear some politician say say "Thank you for your service". Remember that before you even think of enlisting!

-t

In order to fight new future wars, you've got to do something with all those people who fought in the old wars. These Americans didn't fight and die for the snotty nosed children of the rich, fat lawyers in Washington D.C.. They didn't fight and die so all those activist actors way out in Hollywood could spend all night in a club bitching about conservatives while snorting cocaine up their noses. They didn't die so a fellow could express his alternate lifestyle in orgies acting like a damned filthy slut.
No.
They died for God and the American cheeseburger.
Well.
That is all that's left.

[pacodever]

My dad passed away a few years ago. I inquired about an honor guard. He served 16+ years in the AF. That only rated 2 guys and a couple of blanks. The real slap in the face was the coffin draper. You know, the US flag. It was very flimsy. Like handle with caution as even light handling would tear it. It came with a small piece of paper saying to not expose it to water or sunlight. It received a few rain drops and the ink ran. It also had a tag that said "Made in China".

This is what your service is worth to the US Gvmt. Remember that the next time you hear some politician say say "Thank you for your service". Remember that before you even think of enlisting!

-t

Sorry to hear that. My brother did a stint on the honor guard at Fort Rutger this past summer. They had a whole detail for members in between training assigned just for funerals. They were often called in last minute, especially on weekends and holidays to stand in the Alabama summer heat in uniform for a couple hours. They were rarely thanked. A couple times the family didn't even want them there or didn't even know the deceased had been in the military. Often it is just a check in the box the funeral director makes and the VA will find the nearest detail depending on available resources.

In the Navy, we would spend a day or two a year conducting burials-at-sea. A lot of planning went into it. The ship's CO presided over it and the detail of around two dozen sailors and officers participated in dress whites with a full 21 gun (7 guns, three shot) salute. The ceremony was taped and given to the family (who were not allowed onboard) along with a flag (not sure the quality or who provided it) as well as a nautical chart with the burial spot plotted and other ship memorabilia.

I guess they met the minimum requirement for your father but a quality flag and detail would make all the difference.


Burial Flags: Generally, VA will furnish a U.S. burial flag to memorialize Veterans who received an other than dishonorable discharge. This includes certain persons who served in the organized military forces of the Commonwealth of the Philippines while in service of the U.S Armed forces and who died on or after April 25, 1951. Also eligible for a burial flag are Veterans who were entitled to retired pay for service in the Reserve or National Guard, or would have been entitled if over age 60; and members or former members of the Selected Reserve who served their initial obligation, or were discharged for a disability incurred or aggravated in the line of duty, or died while a member of the Selected Reserve.


Military Funeral Honors: Upon request, DoD will provide military funeral honors consisting of folding and the presenting of the United States flag and the playing of "Taps." A funeral honors detail consists of two or more uniformed members of the armed forces, with at least one member from the deceased's branch of service.

http://www.va.gov/opa/publications/benefits_book/benefits_chap07.asp

[tangent4ronpaul]

one piece, printed. :(

-t

[AuH20]

one piece, printed. :(

-t

this is similar to what my family received. 100% cotton and stitched. US made.

http://www.united-states-flag.com/american-flags-5x9-5ft/cotton-memorial-flag-5ftx95ft-us-made.html


This is a standard American flag used from retirement / memorial of US forces veterans. This flag is also known as a burial or internment flag. It is made of top quality cotton for Online Stores. Made from densely woven heavy cotton fabric with rich vibrant colors. These are the most attractive flags for indoor display. These flags have sewn stripes and embroidered stars. They are not designed for use outdoors.

Made in the USA.
..

[RockEnds]

Sorry to hear that. My brother did a stint on the honor guard at Fort Rutger this past summer. They had a whole detail for members in between training assigned just for funerals. They were often called in last minute, especially on weekends and holidays to stand in the Alabama summer heat in uniform for a couple hours. They were rarely thanked. A couple times the family didn't even want them there or didn't even know the deceased had been in the military. Often it is just a check in the box the funeral director makes and the VA will find the nearest detail depending on available resources.

In the Navy, we would spend a day or two a year conducting burials-at-sea. A lot of planning went into it. The ship's CO presided over it and the detail of around two dozen sailors and officers participated in dress whites with a full 21 gun (7 guns, three shot) salute. The ceremony was taped and given to the family (who were not allowed onboard) along with a flag (not sure the quality or who provided it) as well as a nautical chart with the burial spot plotted and other ship memorabilia.

I guess they met the minimum requirement for your father but a quality flag and detail would make all the difference.





http://www.va.gov/opa/publications/benefits_book/benefits_chap07.asp

My son served in AF Honor Guard for a good part of his first enlistment. He did it on base as well as overseas when the casualties were very high. When he was at his base, he really devoted a lot of time to funerals. They traveled some impressive distances for some of these funerals. Not just every cemetery is conveniently located near a military installation.

I know it is a delicate matter, but the funeral directors maybe aren't always the best coordinators for these things, either. I wouldn't personally just leave it up to one. I have nothing but praise for the Offutt team who came to my dad's gravesite. It was a pioneer cemetery down a dirt lane in late January. It was cold, and there was about six inches of snow on the ground. They did a very, very good job, and I have to give them props. That said, the funeral director became aware they were coming AFTER I made the initial contact. My dad didn't want the service because he had seen other funerals in the area. Those were coordinated by the funeral homes. I promised him his wouldn't be like that, and it wasn't.

I've seen the Legion guys do a good job, too. Been there to draw them a beer after they're done. It's unfortunate that more people don't get involved. When the WWII guys were still ambulatory, our local Legion had several members available for funerals. That number has now dropped to the bare minimum of guys who are expected to do funeral after funeral. I have a lot of respect for the guys who show up and volunteer their time.

[oyarde]

I hope I don't sound like a jerk, but to be honest I don't think the government should have offered ANY materials and/or human resources for your dad's funeral unless he died in the line of duty or his life was cut short as a result of an injury sustained while on duty.

Probably he was already 'thanked' well by the government with monetary, educational, and other benefits only offered to military members and their family. Doubtful.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

My Father passed in 2002 at Walter Reed. He was a career Army and Air Force veteran who served 22 years and was wounded 3 times in 3 different tours through Vietnam. He never talked about his time there but I know he spent the rest of his life with shrapnel from a bouncing betty down his spine and he had a plastic cheekbone because of a sniper. I found out from some of his military friends after he died that his responsibilities over there actually led Ho Chi Minh himself to place a bounty on his head.

During the Gulf War he was recalled to active duty and I could tell it bothered him greatly but he never said why. He had years of medical problems because of his service. A collapsed lung, skin cancer, tumors in his ear that was only found because 11 other people who worked on a project with him died of the same thing and he was the last one left. As he was laying on his deathbed he would often lapse in and out of conciousness and in his unconcious states he would often scream out in Vietnamese or begin barking orders (he had once served as a drill instructor). Honestly, my Father and I rarely got along and we had a very difficult relationship filled with pain and while I greatly disliked him I did respect him and felt sorry for him because I could see he was, in many ways, a broken man. As a child I guess I never understood why he did the things he did and why he would sometimes just act full out crazy but as I grew older I began to understand it.

One day, only weeks before he died I came to the hospital and told him I had just enlisted and was to be assigned to military intelligence. I figured this would make him proud and maybe before he died we could have that one moment as Father and Son where I could feel close to him. He just stared at me for a minute and quickly barked at my Mother: "LEAVE US". She left and he motioned for me to pull up a chair and so I did. He began to tell me things he went through and secrets that they probably would have arrested him for. Hell, the man could not even undergo surgery without intelligence officers being in the room prepared to "silence him" if he began talking and they could not stop it so I am sure some of the stuff he told me that day would make the Pentagon cringe. I just sat and listened and really did not know what to say and when he was done we just sat in silence. I said "well Dad, I guess I will go tell Mom you need her." and for the first time in my life I saw him cry. He grabbed my hand and said "please, please don't do this. It's not worth it." He collected himself a bit and said "You are your own man now and I know I can't stop you just do me a favor. When I leave this place, please don't let them put a flag on my casket and for God's sake please don't let them line up to fire guns. I heard enough of that and my country already took my life - i'll be damned if they are taking my death".

That September he closed his eyes for the last time and I was in charge of funeral arrangements. His obituary made mention of his service but his casket bore no flag. The memorial card given to those who attended just called him a college professor and his graveside service had nobody in uniform and nobody firing a gun. He lived the life of a warrior but he died a man knowing he was used as cannon fodder and from the moment he landed in Vietnam until the day he closed he eyes, he never stopped hearing those guns or the cries of men dying around him. He finally had his silence now.

A few weeks later a box showed up on the porch from the Department of Defense. We opened it to find a cheap flag just carelessly tossed in along with a autopenned letter from George W. Bush saying he was darn tootin sorry he died or some such nonsense. I crumbled the letter and threw it away and took the flag to the VFW and donated it. I think he would have wanted it that way.

A few months later I was sitting at Ft. Meade,MD at a M.E.P.S. center with a tag on my chest that said "United States Marine Corps" and I watched the big screen TV as bombs rained down on Baghdad and men in uniforms cheered and salivated while beating their chests and proclaiming how they could not wait to get into the fight and hear the roar of the guns and bombs. I just shook my head and walked to the window and stared towards the foothills of Virginia where my Father still rests. We finally had that bonding moment even if he did not know it. His stories and my own experiences left me hating war just the same as he did, I just thank God I never shed blood on foreign soil to realize it.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Was it one piece or stitched? The flag my family received in the early 1980s for my Grandfather was heavy fabric, multi-piece and stitched. It's very impressive.

It wasn't stitched. I doubt the fabric would have survived being stitched. I've never seen cloth this flimsy and cheap in a fabric store or even a wallmart.


My Father passed in 2002 at Walter Reed. He was a career Army and Air Force veteran who served 22 years and was wounded 3 times in 3 different tours through Vietnam. He never talked about his time there but I know he spent the rest of his life with shrapnel from a bouncing betty down his spine and he had a plastic cheekbone because of a sniper. I found out from some of his military friends after he died that his responsibilities over there actually led Ho Chi Minh himself to place a bounty on his head.

During the Gulf War he was recalled to active duty and I could tell it bothered him greatly but he never said why. He had years of medical problems because of his service. A collapsed lung, skin cancer, tumors in his ear that was only found because 11 other people who worked on a project with him died of the same thing and he was the last one left. As he was laying on his deathbed he would often lapse in and out of conciousness and in his unconcious states he would often scream out in Vietnamese or begin barking orders (he had once served as a drill instructor). Honestly, my Father and I rarely got along and we had a very difficult relationship filled with pain and while I greatly disliked him I did respect him and felt sorry for him because I could see he was, in many ways, a broken man. As a child I guess I never understood why he did the things he did and why he would sometimes just act full out crazy but as I grew older I began to understand it.

One day, only weeks before he died I came to the hospital and told him I had just enlisted and was to be assigned to military intelligence. I figured this would make him proud and maybe before he died we could have that one moment as Father and Son where I could feel close to him. He just stared at me for a minute and quickly barked at my Mother: "LEAVE US". She left and he motioned for me to pull up a chair and so I did. He began to tell me things he went through and secrets that they probably would have arrested him for. Hell, the man could not even undergo surgery without intelligence officers being in the room prepared to "silence him" if he began talking and they could not stop it so I am sure some of the stuff he told me that day would make the Pentagon cringe. I just sat and listened and really did not know what to say and when he was done we just sat in silence. I said "well Dad, I guess I will go tell Mom you need her." and for the first time in my life I saw him cry. He grabbed my hand and said "please, please don't do this. It's not worth it." He collected himself a bit and said "You are your own man now and I know I can't stop you just do me a favor. When I leave this place, please don't let them put a flag on my casket and for God's sake please don't let them line up to fire guns. I heard enough of that and my country already took my life - i'll be damned if they are taking my death".

That September he closed his eyes for the last time and I was in charge of funeral arrangements. His obituary made mention of his service but his casket bore no flag. The memorial card given to those who attended just called him a college professor and his graveside service had nobody in uniform and nobody firing a gun. He lived the life of a warrior but he died a man knowing he was used as cannon fodder and from the moment he landed in Vietnam until the day he closed he eyes, he never stopped hearing those guns or the cries of men dying around him. He finally had his silence now.

A few weeks later a box showed up on the porch from the Department of Defense. We opened it to find a cheap flag just carelessly tossed in along with a autopenned letter from George W. Bush saying he was darn tootin sorry he died or some such nonsense. I crumbled the letter and threw it away and took the flag to the VFW and donated it. I think he would have wanted it that way.

A few months later I was sitting at Ft. Meade,MD at a M.E.P.S. center with a tag on my chest that said "United States Marine Corps" and I watched the big screen TV as bombs rained down on Baghdad and men in uniforms cheered and salivated while beating their chests and proclaiming how they could not wait to get into the fight and hear the roar of the guns and bombs. I just shook my head and walked to the window and stared towards the foothills of Virginia where my Father still rests. We finally had that bonding moment even if he did not know it. His stories and my own experiences left me hating war just the same as he did, I just thank God I never shed blood on foreign soil to realize it.

WOW!

+rep

My dad was a fighter pilot and flight instructor who really lucked out and never saw combat. How lucky? He got transferred out of a USAF base in FL the week before the bay of pigs. His unit flew recon over Cuba during that fiasco. My parents had me late. He didn't want to widow his spouse with a kid, so they waited till he retired from the military before having me.

-t

[loveshiscountry]

My dad passed away a few years ago. I inquired about an honor guard. He served 16+ years in the AF. That only rated 2 guys and a couple of blanks. The real slap in the face was the coffin draper. You know, the US flag. It was very flimsy. Like handle with caution as even light handling would tear it. It came with a small piece of paper saying to not expose it to water or sunlight. It received a few rain drops and the ink ran. It also had a tag that said "Made in China".

This is what your service is worth to the US Gvmt. Remember that the next time you hear some politician say say "Thank you for your service". Remember that before you even think of enlisting!

-tSorry for your loss.
Where was the burial? We buried my father in Arlington National Cemetery a few years ago and we had to provide the flag. My sister mistakenly got one made in China but they had a replacement ready which I now have.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Colorado.

-t

[Pericles]

one piece, printed. :(

-t

That is totally wrong.:mad:

[phill4paul]

My Father passed in 2002 at Walter Reed. He was a career Army and Air Force veteran who served 22 years and was wounded 3 times in 3 different tours through Vietnam. He never talked about his time there but I know he spent the rest of his life with shrapnel from a bouncing betty down his spine and he had a plastic cheekbone because of a sniper. I found out from some of his military friends after he died that his responsibilities over there actually led Ho Chi Minh himself to place a bounty on his head.

During the Gulf War he was recalled to active duty and I could tell it bothered him greatly but he never said why. He had years of medical problems because of his service. A collapsed lung, skin cancer, tumors in his ear that was only found because 11 other people who worked on a project with him died of the same thing and he was the last one left. As he was laying on his deathbed he would often lapse in and out of conciousness and in his unconcious states he would often scream out in Vietnamese or begin barking orders (he had once served as a drill instructor). Honestly, my Father and I rarely got along and we had a very difficult relationship filled with pain and while I greatly disliked him I did respect him and felt sorry for him because I could see he was, in many ways, a broken man. As a child I guess I never understood why he did the things he did and why he would sometimes just act full out crazy but as I grew older I began to understand it.

One day, only weeks before he died I came to the hospital and told him I had just enlisted and was to be assigned to military intelligence. I figured this would make him proud and maybe before he died we could have that one moment as Father and Son where I could feel close to him. He just stared at me for a minute and quickly barked at my Mother: "LEAVE US". She left and he motioned for me to pull up a chair and so I did. He began to tell me things he went through and secrets that they probably would have arrested him for. Hell, the man could not even undergo surgery without intelligence officers being in the room prepared to "silence him" if he began talking and they could not stop it so I am sure some of the stuff he told me that day would make the Pentagon cringe. I just sat and listened and really did not know what to say and when he was done we just sat in silence. I said "well Dad, I guess I will go tell Mom you need her." and for the first time in my life I saw him cry. He grabbed my hand and said "please, please don't do this. It's not worth it." He collected himself a bit and said "You are your own man now and I know I can't stop you just do me a favor. When I leave this place, please don't let them put a flag on my casket and for God's sake please don't let them line up to fire guns. I heard enough of that and my country already took my life - i'll be damned if they are taking my death".

That September he closed his eyes for the last time and I was in charge of funeral arrangements. His obituary made mention of his service but his casket bore no flag. The memorial card given to those who attended just called him a college professor and his graveside service had nobody in uniform and nobody firing a gun. He lived the life of a warrior but he died a man knowing he was used as cannon fodder and from the moment he landed in Vietnam until the day he closed he eyes, he never stopped hearing those guns or the cries of men dying around him. He finally had his silence now.

A few weeks later a box showed up on the porch from the Department of Defense. We opened it to find a cheap flag just carelessly tossed in along with a autopenned letter from George W. Bush saying he was darn tootin sorry he died or some such nonsense. I crumbled the letter and threw it away and took the flag to the VFW and donated it. I think he would have wanted it that way.

A few months later I was sitting at Ft. Meade,MD at a M.E.P.S. center with a tag on my chest that said "United States Marine Corps" and I watched the big screen TV as bombs rained down on Baghdad and men in uniforms cheered and salivated while beating their chests and proclaiming how they could not wait to get into the fight and hear the roar of the guns and bombs. I just shook my head and walked to the window and stared towards the foothills of Virginia where my Father still rests. We finally had that bonding moment even if he did not know it. His stories and my own experiences left me hating war just the same as he did, I just thank God I never shed blood on foreign soil to realize it.

Words cannot lend justice to the emotion I felt reading this. Thank you.

[jay_dub]

My Father passed in 2002 at Walter Reed. He was a career Army and Air Force veteran who served 22 years and was wounded 3 times in 3 different tours through Vietnam. He never talked about his time there but I know he spent the rest of his life with shrapnel from a bouncing betty down his spine and he had a plastic cheekbone because of a sniper. I found out from some of his military friends after he died that his responsibilities over there actually led Ho Chi Minh himself to place a bounty on his head.

During the Gulf War he was recalled to active duty and I could tell it bothered him greatly but he never said why. He had years of medical problems because of his service. A collapsed lung, skin cancer, tumors in his ear that was only found because 11 other people who worked on a project with him died of the same thing and he was the last one left. As he was laying on his deathbed he would often lapse in and out of conciousness and in his unconcious states he would often scream out in Vietnamese or begin barking orders (he had once served as a drill instructor). Honestly, my Father and I rarely got along and we had a very difficult relationship filled with pain and while I greatly disliked him I did respect him and felt sorry for him because I could see he was, in many ways, a broken man. As a child I guess I never understood why he did the things he did and why he would sometimes just act full out crazy but as I grew older I began to understand it.

One day, only weeks before he died I came to the hospital and told him I had just enlisted and was to be assigned to military intelligence. I figured this would make him proud and maybe before he died we could have that one moment as Father and Son where I could feel close to him. He just stared at me for a minute and quickly barked at my Mother: "LEAVE US". She left and he motioned for me to pull up a chair and so I did. He began to tell me things he went through and secrets that they probably would have arrested him for. Hell, the man could not even undergo surgery without intelligence officers being in the room prepared to "silence him" if he began talking and they could not stop it so I am sure some of the stuff he told me that day would make the Pentagon cringe. I just sat and listened and really did not know what to say and when he was done we just sat in silence. I said "well Dad, I guess I will go tell Mom you need her." and for the first time in my life I saw him cry. He grabbed my hand and said "please, please don't do this. It's not worth it." He collected himself a bit and said "You are your own man now and I know I can't stop you just do me a favor. When I leave this place, please don't let them put a flag on my casket and for God's sake please don't let them line up to fire guns. I heard enough of that and my country already took my life - i'll be damned if they are taking my death".

That September he closed his eyes for the last time and I was in charge of funeral arrangements. His obituary made mention of his service but his casket bore no flag. The memorial card given to those who attended just called him a college professor and his graveside service had nobody in uniform and nobody firing a gun. He lived the life of a warrior but he died a man knowing he was used as cannon fodder and from the moment he landed in Vietnam until the day he closed he eyes, he never stopped hearing those guns or the cries of men dying around him. He finally had his silence now.

A few weeks later a box showed up on the porch from the Department of Defense. We opened it to find a cheap flag just carelessly tossed in along with a autopenned letter from George W. Bush saying he was darn tootin sorry he died or some such nonsense. I crumbled the letter and threw it away and took the flag to the VFW and donated it. I think he would have wanted it that way.

A few months later I was sitting at Ft. Meade,MD at a M.E.P.S. center with a tag on my chest that said "United States Marine Corps" and I watched the big screen TV as bombs rained down on Baghdad and men in uniforms cheered and salivated while beating their chests and proclaiming how they could not wait to get into the fight and hear the roar of the guns and bombs. I just shook my head and walked to the window and stared towards the foothills of Virginia where my Father still rests. We finally had that bonding moment even if he did not know it. His stories and my own experiences left me hating war just the same as he did, I just thank God I never shed blood on foreign soil to realize it.

JMO.....but I think he knew.

[Aeroneous]

My dad passed away a few years ago. I inquired about an honor guard. He served 16+ years in the AF. That only rated 2 guys and a couple of blanks. The real slap in the face was the coffin draper. You know, the US flag. It was very flimsy. Like handle with caution as even light handling would tear it. It came with a small piece of paper saying to not expose it to water or sunlight. It received a few rain drops and the ink ran. It also had a tag that said "Made in China".

This is what your service is worth to the US Gvmt. Remember that the next time you hear some politician say say "Thank you for your service". Remember that before you even think of enlisting!

-t

I spent two years in my base Honor Guard while in the Air Force and performed countless funerals. Let me clarify some things..

-Veterans (non-retired) receive a "2-man" funeral. This means that there are two guardsmen who will perform the folding and presentation of the flag, while a third person plays Taps.
-Retirees (20+ years, medically retired, etc.) receive a "6-man" funeral. This means that there is a 6 man pall bearing teaem to carry the casket and a 6 man flag fold, followed by a 3 man firing party, playing of taps, and presentation of the flag. Additionally, recipients of certain medals (like the Distinguished Flying Cross) are entitled to a fly-over.
-Those who die while on active duty and Medal of Honor recipients receive full military honors, which includes a dedicated 7 man firing party for a 21 gun salute, a 4 man colors party, and the 6 man flag fold (and a missing man fly-over, if I'm not mistaken)

I'm sorry for your loss. If your father served 16 years and separated without any form of retirement, he is classified as a veteran and would receive a 2 man funeral. If, however, he was medically retired or received some other type of RETIREMENT you need to contact the base... because someone is going to get their ass fired. Wing Commanders get fired for not providing proper burial rights, as it is a Congressionally mandated requirement. You have to serve 20 years to retire, unless you become medically disqualified or there was some other highly unusual circumstance.

As for the quality of the flag, you need to speak with the funeral director. The Honor Guard does not provide the flag for a military burial. Trust me, we hated this just as much as you did. We wanted high quality flags for our fallen brothers, and we always brought one with us just in case the funeral director forgot a flag (it happens...). But as I said, the funeral director is the person responsible for requisitioning a flag, and I guarantee you the local Honor Guard NCOIC made recommendations for a high quality flag. Not only do the cheap flags look poor in quality, but they are difficult to fold as well. It's just a bad thing for everyone involved.

Depending on when your father served, there could have been anywhere from 300,000 Airmen in service to over 1 million. Currently, Air Force manning levels are incredibly low compared to the ops tempo. Most honor guards function on a rotation, where Airmen are pulled from shops around the base to serve for anywhere from 2 weeks to 4 months (depending on how the base sets up their Honor Guard). When those Airmen leave their shop, incredible strain is placed upon the shops due to low manning. I know it seems like the 330,000 active Airmen is a large number, but you have no idea how ridiculously under-manned most shops are. The reason the 2-man/6-man/21-gun justifications exist is because without them, we would have had no ability to actually perform our day to day mission while still honoring our fellow Airmen. There are so many veterans and retirees who pass away daily that it just becomes a mathematical impossibility to provide 6-man funerals for all of them. The other reason for the tiers is to honor those who achieved different levels of service.

Just know that there isn't a Guardsman in the country who doesn't have full respect for what they're doing at a military burial. Nearly 100% of them are volunteers, and you typically have to be a top-notch Airmen to serve in a base Honor Guard. It was an honor that we took very seriously, and we all wished that we could do more for the families and the fallen. I'll never forget the families I've handed flags to, much as they will never forget what we did that day. It is very unfortunate that your experience was in a negative light, because it should have been a ceremony that would help ease the burden.

[RockEnds]

...

Just know that there isn't a Guardsman in the country who doesn't have full respect for what they're doing at a military burial. Nearly 100% of them are volunteers, and you typically have to be a top-notch Airmen to serve in a base Honor Guard. It was an honor that we took very seriously, and we all wished that we could do more for the families and the fallen. I'll never forget the families I've handed flags to, much as they will never forget what we did that day. It is very unfortunate that your experience was in a negative light, because it should have been a ceremony that would help ease the burden.

Speaking only for myself, it eased my burden.

I didn't even meet my dad until I was 21. He was stationed in Bermuda when my grandpa sent my mom off the maternity home. He spent 21 years thinking she'd told a fib when she claimed she was pregnant. She disappeared as soon as she said it, and when he finally tracked her down, there was no baby. But he welcomed me with open arms when I did find him, and I think the world of him.

His wife, my step-mom, and I had a parting of ways about the nanosecond that he could no longer speak. My son, who is in the AF and was Honor Guard at the time, was supposed to be home for the funeral, but he ended up having to do the Haiti thing instead. My other son was stranded in a snow storm north of Dallas. It was just me and my preschool aged daughter.

My dad was laid to rest in a little cemetery on a hill overlooking his boyhood farm next to his father, and his father, and his father, and his father. Forty-seven years earlier, the Air Force called him away from that place, and he stayed gone for a long time. It was very fitting to see them bring him back home.

He had lots of regrets as he lay dying, and several of them were militarily related, but his service made him who he was. Obviously, I would have rather he'd been a little closer so maybe I wouldn't have had to have grown up not knowing who I was, but that made me who I am, too. And I would have probably rather had my boy home instead of ordered to go somewhere else, but well, that seems to be the story of my life. I was glad the Honor Guard was there to help tell it.

And it made it a lot less awkward when I explained to the funeral director that I was not the child of any of his three wives. My mom was just some girl he met when he was home on leave in '65. ;)

[oyarde]

That is totally wrong.:mad:

Yes , I had never even heard of such a thing ...

[HOLLYWOOD]

My sympathy are to all those military-related that have suffered or lost family members.

I know, I have countless stories of sadness.

Recommend if you are a vet or had a family member who's a vet to join the VFW. It truly is the one organization that takes care of their own and the families of those vets. Not a bunch of pandering politicians worried more about image.

I have a close friend that was head of an U.S.A.F. Honor Guard... he's said it multiple times, "It's the hardest job I ever had to do."

https://www.vfw.org/Uploadedimages/SiteAssets/Images/backgrounds/bkg_header.png

[oyarde]

I already knew this , but this has really brought it to light , we have exceptional funersl directors where I live.