Why November 30th is important

[skinzterpswizfan]

***Yes, this is another November 30th vs. December 16th, but there a few things I've been thinking about and come across in other topics that I feel are worth mentioning*****


Let me first start by saying that I originally thought that December 16 would be a great way to get coverage, and I do still think that. However, it is also important that we keep money flowing into the campaign, because honestly we do not know how much they have. For all we know the campaign could be running short on money.

Regardless, the more they have NOW, the more they can pump into the early primary states for ads, which is VERY important. The money we raise on the 16th will not be able to go towards these states. The less money the campaign has now, the less money will go into these crucial states.

Second, there is no guarantee how much coverage a December 16th bomb will receive, regardless of its success. By this point, I'm sure the media is well aware that the grassroots is good at raising money, so it is not a sure thing this thing will garner much more coverage than the November 5th shock was.

Third, even if it does generate a lot of national media coverage, we need a focus on the early primary states most of all. Unless the residents of Iowa, South Carolina, New Hampshire, etc. watch a ton of national media, they may not even HEAR about this huge money bomb, almost completely nullifying any good effects that may have happened.

In conclusion, while I still think December 16th to be a good idea, it is key that the campaign continue to receive money to run ads, because ultimately advertisements will be more effective in gathering support in the early states. And if we do well in the early states, the coverage will snow ball nationally, big fund raiser or not.

[AlexMerced]

good input, let's get out and promote both,fight the good fight, oh yeah, let's not forget about delegates

[dircha]

I don't understand why the plea from the official campaign is being received with so much hostility from a minority of supporters.

The campaign has already spent millions of dollars on ads in New Hampshire and Iowa, and while we have made some progress in the polls, clearly we have a tremendous distance to go.

To go this distance we need to spend millions more - as much as we can - and this exactly what the official campaign has told us they are committed to doing.

Their admonition is to donate early and often, and that it be early is urgent because they need to buy and schedule this advertising for the rest of the quarter in the next 2 weeks. Ron Paul, from everything we have heard, does not believe in spending money he does not have. Any money the campaign does not have within the next 2 weeks, can not go toward these two early states the campaign considers critical. I feel like I am repeating over and over gain what was in the email from the official campaign, but that is only because many people seem not to have even read it.

If we finish 5th place in Iowa and 4th place in New Hampshire, unless we have wins down the road already secured - we don't - this campaign will be a lost cause. It truly is urgent.

[dircha]

good input, let's get out and promote both,fight the good fight, oh yeah, let's not forget about delegates

You have a thing for being concise! Much better than I could say it!

[AlexMerced]

this thread is in support of the campaign, go out a promote both dates, recruit delegates, canvass, let freedom ring

[me3]

If we finish 5th place in Iowa and 4th place in New Hampshire, unless we have wins down the road already secured - we don't - this campaign will be a lost cause. It truly is urgent.
I actually think that 4th in IA or 3rd in NH will not be good enough. A lot of people are seriously underestimating how well we have to do in these two states to have momentum and overcome the inevitable shenanigans that will follow from legal challenges, and the party itself.

Let's face it, unless we offer Mitt the VP, we aren't going to get much help from the party or the media.

[skinzterpswizfan]

I don't understand why the plea from the official campaign is being received with so much hostility from a minority of supporters.

The campaign has already spent millions of dollars on ads in New Hampshire and Iowa, and while we have made some progress in the polls, clearly we have a tremendous distance to go.

To go this distance we need to spend millions more - as much as we can - and this exactly what the official campaign has told us they are committed to doing.

Their admonition is to donate early and often, and that it be early is urgent because they need to buy and schedule this advertising for the rest of the quarter in the next 2 weeks. Ron Paul, from everything we have heard, does not believe in spending money he does not have. Any money the campaign does not have within the next 2 weeks, can not go toward these two early states the campaign considers critical. I feel like I am repeating over and over gain what was in the email from the official campaign, but that is only because many people seem not to have even read it.

If we finish 5th place in Iowa and 4th place in New Hampshire, unless we have wins down the road already secured - we don't - this campaign will be a lost cause. It truly is urgent.

Exactly my point. If we do not do well in the early primary states, this December 16th fund raiser will be for naught. While it could potentially be a good way for free media, the only way we can guarantee that adequate coverage is given in the early primary states is if we let Ron Paul and his campaign inundate those states with advertisements. This can only be done if they feel they have the adequate funds.

[Drknows]

Well yes i was all for the 16th i even made banners and the countdown plus sent out 16,000 messages but now there is a site promoting a earlier date because of that email the official campaign sent out . And Im positive this will take some away from the 16th. how much? Hard to tell, but.......

I propose this idea to everyone holding out till the 16th,


IF the 30th brings in more than 4 million before 6pm est will you go all out? Will you make it happen?

REASONS
1. Trevor already set up a site and sent out emails to everyone that pledge on that site.
2. Unfortunately the 30th comes before the 16th.
3. We have 8 days to get every single supporter on board.
4. Rudy in drag
5. Ron Paul
6. Payday for a lot of people

[amberj]

Ok. I posted this on another thread, but I'm really curious if anyone else has seen this, so I'm posting it here too. This is a Dennis Kucinich money bomb and it's almost word for word like ours on the 5th and on the 16th. AND they're doing it on the BILL OF RIGHTS DAY, December 15th.

http://www.december152007.com/

[Drknows]

Ok. I posted this on another thread, but I'm really curious if anyone else has seen this, so I'm posting it here too. This is a Dennis Kucinich money bomb and it's almost word for word like ours on the 5th and on the 16th. AND they're doing it on the BILL OF RIGHTS DAY, December 15th.

http://www.december152007.com/

Well WTF, We cant let him top us. We need to get this shit sorted out. and commit hard on one day.

[paulitics]

I actually think that 4th in IA or 3rd in NH will not be good enough. A lot of people are seriously underestimating how well we have to do in these two states to have momentum and overcome the inevitable shenanigans that will follow from legal challenges, and the party itself.

Let's face it, unless we offer Mitt the VP, we aren't going to get much help from the party or the media.

I agree, we need at least a 3rd or 4th place in Iowa, and a first place or high second in NH to have a snowball's chance. If we can't win at least one early primary like Nev or NH before super TUesday it is over.

[dircha]

I actually think that 4th in IA or 3rd in NH will not be good enough. A lot of people are seriously underestimating how well we have to do in these two states to have momentum and overcome the inevitable shenanigans that will follow from legal challenges, and the party itself.

Let's face it, unless we offer Mitt the VP, we aren't going to get much help from the party or the media.

Good point!

It is great to talk about how much money we are raising, but the polls should snap us back to reality. Maybe the polls aren't capturing all our support, but even if they are off by 5 points - optimistically - I don't want to go into Iowa and New Hampshire down 20 points from 1st place, and many potential supporters aren't going to think we're credible if we do.

Even if the campaign were to spend all of their money on hand right now on buying ads over the next 2 weeks minus operating costs for the rest of the quarter, I still don't think that would be enough to put us in 1st or 2nd in either New Hampshire. And this seems to be the sense of the campaign too.

When they told us at the end of 3rd quarter that they projected they needed $12 million in 4th quarter in order to perform well enough, I'll admit that I was skeptical and I know many others were too, but not anymore having followed the polls and what we have already spent now with a little over a month remaining. Anything the campaign can do to get more money in over the next 2 weeks, they should do, and that's what they're pleading with us to do.

It would be fun to ride a wheelie across the finishing line, but it won't mean anything if we finish the race in 5th place.

[AlexMerced]

seriously... are you scared by a Kucinich bomb after obama, eye on the prize people, for the next 8 days RRL is the game, then the TP. Go team!

[amberj]

seriously... are you scared by a Kucinich bomb after obama, eye on the prize people, for the next 8 days RRL is the game, then the TP. Go team!

Not scared. A little peeved that they so blatantly ripped off the ideas from the Ron Paul supporters. They couldn't even come up with their own day. Not to mention the fact that it's a little hypocritical when DK doesn't even stand for the constitution. He may be better than most, but he is still not a constitutionalist.

By the way, what is RRL?

[hddn-agnda]

Anything less than a win in EVERY SINGLE PRIMARY by double digits, with over 50% of the vote will be an ABSOLUTE FAILURE. So get your asses in motion. We're not coming in second. Liberty or Death. We will not get the nomination unless it's a damn landslide in the primaries, so we have to make it convincing to the point that we are doing and freaking endzone dance and everyone is still back at our 20 yard line.

Amber, I've seen that. I kinda like Kucinich. He's nutty but he's got principles and he's friends with Dr. Paul. I think we should all pray for a Dennis Kucinich Nomination by the Dems, so that when Ron Paul and he debate, they'll let all the candidates debate--and neither Dennis Kucinich or Ron Paul is a liar so it will be a real, honest debate. Our Nation deserves that level of discourse. Then again, he's also the only other truly anti-war candidate who has a non intervention policy and getting out of funky trade agreements... all the other candidates we just have to point out how either "Well, this is Hillary Clinton... do you honestly want HER to be president?" or "LOL... Barack Obama... Ron Paul has experience with drugs too, Barack... he's prescribed them."

[dircha]

Well yes i was all for the 16th i even made banners and the countdown plus sent out 16,000 messages but now there is a site promoting a earlier date because of that email the official campaign sent out . And Im positive this will take some away from the 16th. how much? Hard to tell, but.......

Your work is definitely not wasted. Most people are limited in what they can give per paycheck. Some will hold out for the 16th either way. Some aren't even going to get the message to contribute sooner. And hopefully many more will join us between the 1st and the 16th.

I don't think the 30th is going to draw a huge amount of support due to the way it is being marketed. But it will help. And if the official campaign feels it necessary, they will send out another email in a week or two asking for urgent contributions, and that will help to.

So I think we should still have a lot of hope for the 16th, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's all working just as it should. The official campaign's email was very well thought out strategically, and it has already brought in a nice chunk of money, much of it that they probably wouldn't have gotten otherwise!

[dircha]

By the way, what is RRL?

http://www.rudysreadinglist.com/

It's the November 30th fundraiser. The promotion email went out to the 15,000+ on the old November 5th mailing list.

[dircha]

By the way, those who agree with the sentiments expressed by the original poster, please rate the thread accordingly using the Rating star menu in the right hand corner!

[amberj]

Amber, I've seen that. I kinda like Kucinich. He's nutty but he's got principles and he's friends with Dr. Paul. I think we should all pray for a Dennis Kucinich Nomination by the Dems, so that when Ron Paul and he debate, they'll let all the candidates debate--and neither Dennis Kucinich or Ron Paul is a liar so it will be a real, honest debate. Our Nation deserves that level of discourse. Then again, he's also the only other truly anti-war candidate who has a non intervention policy and getting out of funky trade agreements... all the other candidates we just have to point out how either "Well, this is Hillary Clinton... do you honestly want HER to be president?" or "LOL... Barack Obama... Ron Paul has experience with drugs too, Barack... he's prescribed them."

I guess I'm a little biased against anyone who isn't Ron Paul:p

Really though, at first I thought it might be a joke because of the similarities to our "moneybomb" websites. So I was wondering if anyone else knew about it. I was a little shocked to see almost the exact same wording on there as on ours.

[Midnight77]

All I can say is that Paul set a goal at the end of the Quarter of $12 Million to win. He set a goal of $4 Million a quarter. Did he miscalculate? We are ahead of schedule by a Million Dollars already for him.

I am quite confident we have more money raised this quarter then Thompson and McCain. Maybe I'm underestimating, and we may possibly have even more than Romney and Giuliani at this point, since we already have $9 Million raised. If I'm not mistaken, Giuliani raised $11 Million last Quarter.

My personal guess is that the Campaign is trying to squeeze everyone for the most money possible. They need to pour all of this money they have raised into the early Primary states. They will be replenished for the later states on the 16th ... along with a TON of media publicity.

Keep in mind that the 16th is BEFORE the Iowa Caucus and the New Hampshire Primary. So it will have an effect on them. People will be intrigued with why he has raised so much money, so they will check him out. Questions are going to pop into people's heads as to why the Media hasn't been covering him, either.

My best recommendation is to stay the course. We must beat Hillary's one day Total of $6.2 Million at all costs. The Media Attention should go through the roof if we can achieve this. My guess is that we can do between $8 and $10 Million for the Tea Party. For the quarter, I am predicting between $18 and $20 Million.

But I personally would not recommend donating on the 30th, unless you plan to donate what you originally intended to donate on the 16th, as well. The 30th should be reserved for anything you want to donate in addition to what you were planning to donate on the Tea Party.

$10 Million. We can do this, but we need to all be on the same page.

[James R]

***Yes, this is another November 30th vs. December 16th, but there a few things I've been thinking about and come across in other topics that I feel are worth mentioning*****


Let me first start by saying that I originally thought that December 16 would be a great way to get coverage, and I do still think that. However, it is also important that we keep money flowing into the campaign, because honestly we do not know how much they have. For all we know the campaign could be running short on money.

Regardless, the more they have NOW, the more they can pump into the early primary states for ads, which is VERY important. The money we raise on the 16th will not be able to go towards these states. The less money the campaign has now, the less money will go into these crucial states.

Second, there is no guarantee how much coverage a December 16th bomb will receive, regardless of its success. By this point, I'm sure the media is well aware that the grassroots is good at raising money, so it is not a sure thing this thing will garner much more coverage than the November 5th shock was.

Third, even if it does generate a lot of national media coverage, we need a focus on the early primary states most of all. Unless the residents of Iowa, South Carolina, New Hampshire, etc. watch a ton of national media, they may not even HEAR about this huge money bomb, almost completely nullifying any good effects that may have happened.

In conclusion, while I still think December 16th to be a good idea, it is key that the campaign continue to receive money to run ads, because ultimately advertisements will be more effective in gathering support in the early states. And if we do well in the early states, the coverage will snow ball nationally, big fund raiser or not.

Compromising is pointless and wrong. The point of December 16th is a record fund-raising day. If you split the donation you end up with two money-bombs that get no media coverage. Either move TeaParty07 to November 30th or don't have a money bomb on November 30th. And before you do that you'd better make sure the vast majority of people can actually afford a big Nov 30th donation. Nov 30th is when we are going to be buying gifts for people! We went completely all out on Nov 5th and raised 4.3 million. Where is the evidence that we could go all out again between both November 30th and December 16th yet end up hitting the record? If donating now is so important, then we donate ALL IN on the 30th and forget about the 16th.

A split decision or compromise is no decision at all. Either we can afford to move up TeaParty07 or we can't. If we can't, we should go with Dec 16th only.

[skinzterpswizfan]

Compromising is pointless and wrong. The point of December 16th is a record fund-raising day. If you split the donation you end up with two money-bombs that get no media coverage. Either move TeaParty07 to November 30th or don't have a money bomb on November 30th. And before you do that you'd better make sure the vast majority of people can actually afford a big Nov 30th donation. Nov 30th is when we are going to be buying gifts for people! We went completely all out on Nov 5th and raised 4.3 million. Where is the evidence that we could go all out again between both November 30th and December 16th yet end up hitting the record? If donating now is so important, then we donate ALL IN on the 30th and forget about the 16th.

A split decision or compromise is no decision at all. Either we can afford to move up TeaParty07 or we can't. If we can't, we should go with Dec 16th only.

What does a "record fund-raising" day really matter? We've already had one, and the media reported. Yes, we'll get media coverage, but I get the feeling a lot of people are so insistent on it being on one day so that we can pat ourselves on the back and say: "Well look at all that money we just raised." Yes, I personally would like to raise 10 million dollars in one day, but if that day is December 16th none of that money is going to help him win the primary states.

If we are going to go all out on one day, it HAS to be November 30th. We can't forget the primary purpose of these money bombs: to raise money for the campaign. If Paul doesn't do well in Iowa or New Hampshire, that will be 10 million dollars down the drain. We increase our odds of doing better in those states by donating sooner.

[tremendoustie]

I'm not going to jump into the 30th vs 16th issue, but I want to suggest removing the liberty forum video from the site (that's the first video below the reading list). I agree with most what Paul says, but I don't think it's the best option for undecided republicans or media, who may be visiting the site. The rhetoric he uses here is more extreme than that which he's been using in recent events intended for a general audience.

[dircha]

All I can say is that Paul set a goal at the end of the Quarter of $12 Million to win. He set a goal of $4 Million a quarter. Did he miscalculate? We are ahead of schedule by a Million Dollars already for him.

Well, first I'll add to please read the entire email from the official campaign if you haven't had a chance to yet. What they are saying is that they need to spend that $12 million as early as possible. They need as much as possible within the next 2 weeks to buy and schedule ads now to run over the remainder of the quarter; this has to be done well in advance. And the campaign does not spend money it does not have.

It doesn't make sense to be a stickler about the $12 million figure in my opinion. The campaign is looking at the polls, just like we are. And as has been said, based on what we have spent so far and the movement in the polls we have seen so far, it is going to take millions more - as much as we can possibly muster. They don't have a magic crystal ball either; they didn't know on November 1st how much it would take. But thank goodness we have already raised as much as we have, or we might not have a chance at all.


My personal guess is that the Campaign is trying to squeeze everyone for the most money possible. They need to pour all of this money they have raised into the early Primary states. They will be replenished for the later states on the 16th ... along with a TON of media publicity.

Yes, right on! But don't underestimate the importance of this. Just look at the polls and the millions we have already spent. We have a long way to go and it is going to take absolutely everything we can muster, because it is turning out to be much harder than we had hoped to convert that money into clear support. It is very likely that for all practical purposes we will be out of contention if we do not finish strongly in Iowa and New Hampshire.


But I personally would not recommend donating on the 30th, unless you plan to donate what you originally intended to donate on the 16th, as well. The 30th should be reserved for anything you want to donate in addition to what you were planning to donate on the Tea Party.

Well, I'm not sure. I'll admit my initial sentiment when I saw the email was, "set aside the symbolic amount for the 16th and donate as much as possible before." However, reading through the email again since, I can't honestly say I feel that is a fair rendition of what they are pleading with us to do. It's pretty clear that they are saying, "donate as much as you can within the next 2 weeks even at the expense of a big day later in the quarter." If you read it again, I'd love to hear if you see it differently, but I don't see it.

Thanks.

[dircha]

What does a "record fund-raising" day really matter? We've already had one, and the media reported. Yes, we'll get media coverage, but I get the feeling a lot of people are so insistent on it being on one day so that we can pat ourselves on the back and say: "Well look at all that money we just raised." Yes, I personally would like to raise 10 million dollars in one day, but if that day is December 16th none of that money is going to help him win the primary states.

If we are going to go all out on one day, it HAS to be November 30th. We can't forget the primary purpose of these money bombs: to raise money for the campaign. If Paul doesn't do well in Iowa or New Hampshire, that will be 10 million dollars down the drain. We increase our odds of doing better in those states by donating sooner.

Thank you for sitting him straight. I'm going to be completely honest. I really have to question the motives and commitment of at least some of the people who are insisting that we should entirely ignore the advice of the official campaign, especially those who are so set on this "record". It seems as thoughthey are set on the record more than they are on Ron Paul winning the nomination. Haven't these people read the urgent plea from the official campaign? Have they received it?

Anyone who has contributed to Ron Paul's campaign or who has otherwise registered with the site has received that communication, but many people advocating contrary positions appear to not even have read it. This is a real concern for me. All I'm saying is that they don't seem to have their priorities straight.

The official campaign is focused on our performance in the 4 early states, with Iowa and New Hampshire in particular, and these people don't understand that this whole thing really is over if we do not perform well enough there.

[hddn-agnda]

If you read it again, I'd love to hear if you see it differently, but I don't see it.

Thanks.

You read it correctly. The reason top tier candidates are top tier is because they do things like that regularly... they show up at a dinner and raise a few million. They do it pretty consistently on the Dem side. So ask yourself, do they get more attention for single day blitzes, or because they consistently raise a million dollars per week, at least?

We can raise a Million dollars in the week following a Money Bomb that broke all the records.... and then not 15 days later, we raised another 1/4 mill in 8 hours like it wasn't shit. I am frankly ashamed at our lack of morale and faith. We have the Constitution and Ron Paul and Fate on our side. And we also carry weapons, that helps. Nobody is taking this from us this time. Freedom will win.

Say it with me.... FREEDOM WILL WIN

FREEDOM WILL WIN
FREEDOM WILL WIN
FREEDOM WILL WIN

see, we will win. we spoke it into being. now lets finish her off, eh

[me3]

All I can say is that Paul set a goal at the end of the Quarter of $12 Million to win. He set a goal of $4 Million a quarter. Did he miscalculate? We are ahead of schedule by a Million Dollars already for him.

we're not ahead of schedule. The campaign posts goals to beat, not goals to reach.

Usually when the campaign sets a goal, we lap it.

Anyone who thinks $12 million this quarter will be enough is dreaming. They need the money ASAP, not with a week left in the month of December with 2 major holidays in it. Has anyone even considered that during the holidays, they won't be able to buy or produce any media with so many people off work between Dec. 24 and Jan 2?

I feel like I am speaking the foreign language of common sense.

[dircha]

Has anyone even considered that during the holidays, they won't be able to buy or produce any media with so many people off work between Dec. 24 and Jan 2?

Exactly! And even if they could, as they have explained so well, they couldn't get it on the air in time to make a difference in Iowa and New Hampshire where we need it most!

This is why sustaining a high rate of contributions over the next 2 weeks is so critical. I hope the campaign sends out more emails next week rallying support. Though I don't look forward to the eruption of negativity it is sure to bring among the same minority of forum goers here.

[Eleanor]

I truly believe the campaign needs our $$$ now to counteract the effects of other candidates' ads.

How does a $10-12 million tea party publicity bump counteract Mitt Romney's $85,000 a day, $600,000 a week airwave saturation of Iowa, NH, SC and Florida? http://www.newsdaily.... .

Many, many people rely on the MSM for their info. They do not see sign waves and have no access to the Internet. They listen to NPR. How are we going to reach them if we have one RP ad vs. 20 Mitt ads? I've seen the Mitt ads in Florida - they're slick and he sounds wonderful!

We're also up against Huck, who is getting free publicity from the MSM, and Rudy, who was spending $300k in NH as of 11/13, but who I?m sure can spend much more. http://www.nydailynew... .

The RP $1.1 million October 6-week ad run is nearly finished. So is the run with the nearly $500k of radio ads in 4 states.

The campaign needs more $ to buy airtime for the next round. And they pay cash for their ads; they don't take out loans.

If we don't fund the ads now, enabling the campaign to saturate the air waves with his message once this ad run is over, how are we going to counteract the effect of Mitt's and everyone else's ads?

PS. I'm in favor of the Tea Party - just not focusing on it and losing the primaries because RP's message was not publicized enough with continuous ads.

Another point: Who's going to pay attention to new ads funded by a December 16th event? They'd appear right smack in the middle of the holidays, and people typically don't care about more serious things "until the first of the year."

[Trigonx]

If we take a step back and look at what has happened. The sole source of this disruption in the grassroots is the email sent from HQ. If the email has caused this much disruption it seems to have been a mistake from my point of view. We would see a lot more positive threads attracting people to come back to the forums to read more and get involved more if the email was not sent. I also see RP supporters calling other RP supporters names that are not very nice. IMHO the email did more harm than good by just looking at the effect it had on the grassroots. I believe december 16th is the day to go because that is what the day was before the email and the day we set before all this confusion and nonsense.

[dircha]

Welcome to the forums Eleanor, and thank you for setting it out so plainly.

I'm thankful that we have supporters like you on board this evening to help combat all of the disinformation about the official campaign's urgent admonition.

It's astonishing to think that there would ever be a concern about having to defend an urgent plea of support from the official campaign on a message board dedicated to supporting Ron Paul for the Republican nomination for President.

But sure enough earlier this afternoon we had quite a handful of people coming out of the woodwork personally smearing the character of the campaign manager, personally attacking the credibility of the official campaign staff, explicitly telling people to ignore the official campaign, and spamming the main forum here with downright despicable threads undermining and disparaging their strategy and the urgency of their plea. But we have worn them down and we have been working hard to stop their disinfo.

These attacks just reinforce in my mind the leadership of the official campaign. We must be doing something right when all of these negative forces are fighting us so vehemently.

[skinzterpswizfan]

If we take a step back and look at what has happened. The sole source of this disruption in the grassroots is the email sent from HQ. If the email has caused this much disruption it seems to have been a mistake from my point of view. We would see a lot more positive threads attracting people to come back to the forums to read more and get involved more if the email was not sent. I also see RP supporters calling other RP supporters names that are not very nice. IMHO the email did more harm than good by just looking at the effect it had on the grassroots. I believe december 16th is the day to go because that is what the day was before the email and the day we set before all this confusion and nonsense.

Donations were trickling to a stop before the email was sent out. Once again, the campaign needs money NOW, not post-December 16th (well they actually do, but it won't do any good for the early primaries, which WILL determine whether Ron Paul has any shot whatsoever). It's clear that the e-mail divided the supporters, but campaign sent it because they can't afford to have a complete drop off in donations for the next 20+ days because everyone is getting hyped about December 16th.

[hddn-agnda]

If the email has caused this much disruption it seems to have been a mistake from my point of view.

umm.. no. the source of the disruption has been people running disinfo over here. They aren't coming right out and saying it, but they are shills. The campaign saw a need and we raised like 10k one day and got beat by Huckabee... nuff said.

[Man from La Mancha]

Welcome to the forums Eleanor, and thank you for setting it out so plainly.

I'm thankful that we have supporters like you on board this evening to help combat all of the disinformation about the official campaign's urgent admonition.

It's astonishing to think that there would ever be a concern about having to defend an urgent plea of support from the official campaign on a message board dedicated to supporting Ron Paul for the Republican nomination for President.

But sure enough earlier this afternoon we had quite a handful of people coming out of the woodwork personally smearing the character of the campaign manager, personally attacking the credibility of the official campaign staff, explicitly telling people to ignore the official campaign, and spamming the main forum here with downright despicable threads undermining and disparaging their strategy and the urgency of their plea. But we have worn them down and we have been working hard to stop their disinfo.

These attacks just reinforce in my mind the leadership of the official campaign. We must be doing something right when all of these negative forces are fighting us so vehemently.Give it a break people are just thinking out loud, thats the point of these boards. No one is getting lynched! There is already 2 million dollars pledge for the 16th, meaning we are only 1 mill away from HQ goals.


.

.

[dircha]

skinzterpswizfan, I think it is absolutely clear that the majority of these people reacting so negatively have never read the communication from the official campaign, and probably didn't even receive it because they either haven't ever contributed to Ron Paul's campaign or haven't otherwise explicitly registered as a supporter on his website. If they had done either of these things, they would have received the communication.

These accusations are outright denials of the facts laid out in that urgent communication. I don't know what else it could be.

Folks, if you haven't yet donated to the official campaign or otherwise registered as a supporter, please go to https://www.ronpaul2008.com/join/ and register. This way you will receive urgent email communications from the official campaign. You don't need to donate anything to receive these. Just sign up and provide at least your email address.

It is important that you sign up there so that you don't get left in the dark on these issues.

[wildflower]

Why November 30th is important

November 30th is my birthday. :D

[dircha]

Give it a break people are just thinking out loud, thats the point of these boards. No one is getting lynched! There is already 2 million dollars pledge for the 16th, meaning we are only 1 mill away from HQ goals.

Man, what do you mean, I know you have been around for a long time. Please!

They say explicitly that they need the money now, as much as we can possibly rally within the next 2 weeks. They need to buy and schedule ads for the rest of the quarter within the next 2 weeks. That's why this is so urgent.

They say explicitly that waiting until the 16th will not be enough. Yes, we will receive a great deal on the 16th, but their urgent plea was that anyone who has money they can afford to give now, and who was saving it for the 16th, that they give it within the next 2 weeks.

[Trigonx]

umm.. no. the source of the disruption has been people running disinfo over here. They aren't coming right out and saying it, but they are shills. The campaign saw a need and we raised like 10k one day and got beat by Huckabee... nuff said.

We would not have the shills and disinfo that was caused by the email if it had not been sent. And our lowest day this quarter is $20,805 not $10,000 http://ronpaulgraphs.com/text_stats.html

And last time I checked I didn't care how much money huckabee raised, the same goes for the other candidates, I would much rather care to see an incredible December 16th that blows november 5th out of the water and gives the campaign the intense coverage they would receive.

[Eleanor]

Thanks, Dircha! :) Glad to be here.

I'm glad for you folks' belief of and openness to the campaign's plea. I hope you have been successful enough with countering the disinformation to help get things moving on the donations again.

It's extremely frustrating to look at the big picture and see things maybe going down the drain because of some folks' insistence that a one-day donation total very late in the early primary cycle is more important than getting Ron Paul's message out NOW.

[AlexMerced]

We would not have the shills and disinfo that was caused by the email if it had not been sent. And our lowest day this quarter is $20,805 not $10,000 http://ronpaulgraphs.com/text_stats.html

And last time I checked I didn't care how much money huckabee raised, the same goes for the other candidates, I would much rather care to see an incredible December 16th that blows november 5th out of the water and gives the campaign the intense coverage they would receive.

I agree people are starting to imply a anti-teaparty conspiracy which is lunacy:

- The Campaign sent out the email
- Trevor Organized dec 16th & Nov 30th

I think everybody has their feelings on this issue, I think that west virginia thread is probably much pertinent right now.

[OceanMachine7]

I don't understand why the plea from the official campaign is being received with so much hostility from a minority of supporters.

Having done libertarian-type activism for a few years now, there's just a small number of very vocal people in the community that will throw a tantrum when ANYONE tries to suggest to them what to do (note: not saying that this is the case with everyone that disagrees with the e-mail; there are a lot of good arguments on both sides). They say they'll leave, stop supporting the candidate, not vote, whatever. It's frustrating, because that energy could be channeled so much more positively.

[AlexMerced]

Having done libertarian-type activism for a few years now, there's just a small number of very vocal people in the community that will throw a tantrum when ANYONE tries to suggest to them what to do (note: not saying that this is the case with everyone that disagrees with the e-mail; there are a lot of good arguments on both sides). They say they'll leave, stop supporting the candidate, not vote, whatever. It's frustrating, because that energy could be channeled so much more positively.

that's how I feel, well I guess we better do some canvassing and replace them

[schmeisser]

Having done libertarian-type activism for a few years now, there's just a small number of very vocal people in the community that will throw a tantrum when ANYONE tries to suggest to them what to do (note: not saying that this is the case with everyone that disagrees with the e-mail; there are a lot of good arguments on both sides). They say they'll leave, stop supporting the candidate, not vote, whatever. It's frustrating, because that energy could be channeled so much more positively.

Yes, for such a "logical" philosophy/ideology, Libertarians, Randians, et al react very emotionally when challenged or debated. I used to belong to many groups and drifted away since most of the discussion was counterproductive or pointless. Most will grow out of some of it and become slightly more pragmatic and social beings.

I went through that phase myself when I first found Objectivism. Ouside of Galt's Gulch, we must deal with real people and tailor our discourse.

[AlexMerced]

Yes, for such a "logical" philosophy/ideology, Libertarians, Randians, et al react very emotionally when challenged or debated. I used to belong to many groups and drifted away since most of the discussion was counterproductive or pointless. Most will grow out of some of it and become slightly more pragmatic and social beings.

I went through that phase myself when I first found Objectivism. Ouside of Galt's Gulch, we must deal with real people and tailor our discourse.

agreed

[dircha]

that's how I feel, well I guess we better do some canvassing and replace them

I agree. I will be out again Saturday, but the way it stands now, I don't even feel comfortable recommending this forum to any new Ron Paul supporter. I don't tell people I convert about it.

I really hope these few troublemakers are driven out if that is what it comes to; they are not an asset to the campaign. They are unstable and using our community to pursue their own agendas at the expense of our candidate. I don't have any hesitation in confronting them.

But with as many new people as we have coming on board at these forums every day now, it is important that we continue to be proactive in preventing these wolves from undermining support here.

[AlexMerced]

I agree. I will be out again Saturday, but the way it stands now, I don't even feel comfortable recommending this forum to any new Ron Paul supporter.

I really hope these few troublemakers are driven out if that is what it comes to; they are not an asset to the campaign. They are unstable and using our community to pursue their own agendas at the expense of our candidate. I don't have any hesitation in confronting them.

But with as many new people as we have coming on board at these forums every day now, it is important that we continue to be proactive in preventing these wolves from undermining support here.

my personal favorite alternative is RonPaulSpace.com I wonder how they are doing on this whole controvesy I'll check

[Eleanor]

Thank you, Dircha, for your and your colleagues' work here in trying to keep everyone focused on Ron Paul's WINNING. I'm glad I'm not alone in my concern about this situation!!!

[sharedvoice]

The most significant pledge-drive now is:

www.rudysreadinglist.com

It is very important that we hit our goal putting us over 12M. This way we can send a message to Rudy in front of MSM for his lacking Foriegn Policy knowlege, while raising some cash to spend in NH and IA.

Remember how much press we got when Rudy challenged Dr. Paul during the debate? Well, this is an effort to re-hash that debate!!

Pledge if you can this Nov 30th. INCOMING!