Details emerge in LAPD's mistaken shooting of newspaper carriers

[sailingaway]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-torrance-shooting-20130209,0,4414028.story

http://www.trbimg.com/img-5115b765/turbine/la-1356947-me-0207-shoot-02-rrc.jpg-20130208/580/580x378


It was around 5 a.m. in Torrance on Thursday and police from nearby El Segundo had seen a pickup truck exit a freeway and head in the general direction of the Redbeam Avenue residence of a high-ranking Los Angeles police official, which was being guarded by a group of LAPD officers.

Police were on the lookout for Christopher Jordan Dorner, a disgruntled ex-cop suspected of hunting down members of the LAPD and their families in a twisted campaign of revenge. The radio call indicated that the truck matched the description of Dorner's gray Nissan Titan.

PHOTOS: Manhunt for ex-LAPD officer

A few minutes later, a truck slowly rolled down the quiet residential street.

As the vehicle approached the house, officers opened fire, unloading a barrage of bullets into the back of the truck. When the shooting stopped, they quickly realized their mistake. The truck was not a Nissan Titan, but a Toyota Tacoma. The color wasn't gray, but aqua blue. And it wasn't Dorner inside the truck, but a woman and her mother delivering copies of the Los Angeles Times.

In an interview with The Times on Friday, LAPD Chief Charlie Beck outlined the most detailed account yet of how the shooting unfolded. Margie Carranza, 47, and her mother, Emma Hernandez, 71, were the victims of "a tragic misinterpretation" by officers working under "incredible tension," he said. Just hours before, Dorner allegedly shot three police officers, one fatally. And, in an online posting authorities attributed to him, Dorner threatened to kill more police and seemed to take responsibility for the slaying over the weekend of the daughter of a retired LAPD captain and her fiance.

Beck and others stressed that the investigation into the shooting is in its infancy. They declined to say how many officers were involved, what kind of weapons they used, how many bullets were fired and, perhaps most important, what kind of verbal warnings — if any — were given to the women before the shooting began.

FULL COVERAGE: Sweeping manhunt for ex-cop

Law enforcement sources told The Times that at least seven officers opened fire. On Friday, the street was pockmarked with bullet holes in cars, trees, garage doors and roofs. Residents said they wanted to know what happened.

"How do you mistake two Hispanic women, one who is 71, for a large black male?" said Richard Goo, 62, who counted five bullet holes in the entryway to his house.

Glen T. Jonas, the attorney representing the women, said the police officers gave "no commands, no instructions and no opportunity to surrender" before opening fire. He described a terrifying encounter in which the pair were in the early part of their delivery route through several South Bay communities. Hernandez was in the back seat handing papers to her daughter, who was driving. Carranza would briefly slow the truck to throw papers on driveways and front walks.

As bullets tore through the cabin, the two women "covered their faces and huddled down," Jonas said. "They felt like it was going on forever."

Hernandez was shot twice in her back and is expected to recover. Her daughter escaped with only minor wounds from broken glass.

Though Beck said he does not doubt the women did not hear any verbal commands, he emphasized that it was still possible the officers did attempt to stop the vehicle before opening fire. And, while not commenting specifically on this shooting, Beck said it was not difficult to imagine how officers who were already on edge could make the mistake these officers did.

"As an officer, you look for cues. You know how someone drives normally and then you see someone coming at you slowly, driving in the middle of the street, stopping and starting. That can be misinterpreted," he said.

Beck said he had not yet received a detailed briefing, which typically occurs a few days after officer-involved shootings to give investigators time to collect evidence and put together the basic summary of what happened. But he did say that the gunfire occurred in two bursts: The first came from an officer positioned down the block from the LAPD official's residence, and the second when Carranza accelerated away from the gunfire and toward other officers.

After the investigation is completed, Beck and an oversight board will decide if officers were justified in the shooting or made mistakes that warrant either punishment or training.

Jonas estimated that the officers fired between 20 and 30 rounds. Photographs of the back of the truck showed at least two dozen bullet holes. Neighbors, however, suggested there were more shots fired.

more at link

[Anti Federalist]

Served and protected the shit outta them...

[Anti Federalist]

After the investigation is completed, Beck and an oversight board will decide if officers were justified in the shooting or made mistakes that warrant either punishment or training.

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/lol/grand/Jack-Nicholson-lol-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-1658.gif

[angelatc]

Jonas estimated that the officers fired between 20 and 30 rounds. Photographs of the back of the truck showed at least two dozen bullet holes. Neighbors, however, suggested there were more shots fired. Lolz - the picture shows at least 46....


And they weren't killed. Seriously?

[sailingaway]

yeah, it is hard to adequately comment on that...

[angelatc]

yeah, it is hard to adequately comment on that...

All I can figure is that God didn't want it to be their time.

[Anti Federalist]

Lolz - the picture shows at least 46....


And they weren't killed. Seriously?

Not even hurt too badly.

A steel vehicle, with full seats, is a pretty rugged shield, at least against handgun ammo.

I've shot up enough old cars to know.

[pcosmar]

All I can figure is that God didn't want it to be their time.

That is the "bottom line" that keeps me here. Till my time comes.

[AGRP]

It was around 5 a.m. in Torrance on Thursday and police from nearby El Segundo had seen a pickup truck exit a freeway and head in the general direction of the Redbeam Avenue residence of a high-ranking Los Angeles police official, which was being guarded by a group of LAPD officers.

So, it was their fault they took an exit and were driving in the general direction of an officers home? They deserved to be potentially murdered over that? How far is "general?" A block? 10 miles?

[alucard13mmfmj]

looks like some people wont be delivering papers anymore... after they sue the hell out of the LAPD, the city, the county, and ever government entity involved in this fiasco.

[sailingaway]

The whole thing doesn't look very good to Lew Rockwell: http://lewrockwell.com/greenhut/greenhut73.1.html

[Cleaner44]

The attempted murder of the occupants of the blue truck by LAPD, demonstrates the lawlessness that Christopher Jordan Dorner is pissed off about. It appears the the LAPD is playing right into his hands by blatantly shooting to kill a suspect with no regard for doing their job in a professional manner. The LAPD is exposed for the whole nation to see.

[coastie]

So, it was their fault they took an exit and were driving in the general direction of an officers home? They deserved to be potentially murdered over that? How far is "general?" A block? 10 miles?


You got it...


Pssst. LAPD/DHS/USGOV...I could of come up with a much better, convince-able story line than this, in a much shorter time span so as to actually be even more effective. Time=money and all of that. I'm broke, about to be a single father(hopefully/pray/chant/whatever), and could really use the money. I can do video, too. You know how to find me, you fucking fucks(oh dear, the several years I grew up in Southie(South Boston) in the mid-late '80's are coming out),aka, coastie has obtained alcohol, and is imbibing heavily...:toady:

[pacodever]

So many things wrong here...


As an officer, you look for cues. You know how someone drives normally and then you see someone coming at you slowly, driving in the middle of the street, stopping and starting. That can be misinterpreted," he said.

Let me fix that: As an officer, you look for excuses to use force. Guess these guys have never seen a paper delivered. Highly irregular activity that happens every day in every neighborhood. What if one of the neighbors ordered a pizza? Waste the delivery guy?


But he did say that the gunfire occurred in two bursts: The first came from an officer positioned down the block from the LAPD official's residence, and the second when Carranza accelerated away from the gunfire and toward other officers.

No shit. Seriously? Either she drove away from a firestorm of gunfire or the poor woman probably just took her foot off the brake ducking from bullets or from being shot/dead. Neither of which would be considered unusual in that situation.


In an interview with The Times on Friday, LAPD Chief Charlie Beck outlined the most detailed account yet of how the shooting unfolded. Margie Carranza, 47, and her mother, Emma Hernandez, 71, were the victims of "a tragic misinterpretation" by officers working under "incredible tension,"

Tension? Parking your fat ass in front of your boss' house for eight hours with your buddies, ordering Chinese food, getting paid overtime while waiting for nothing to happen. That's what these cream puffs call tension? :rolleyes:

[tangent4ronpaul]

Lolz - the picture shows at least 46....


And they weren't killed. Seriously?

You're forgetting about all the newspapers. Phone books have been used in the past to expediently armor cars.

They were lucky it happened at the beginning of their route.

-t

[Anti Federalist]

The whole thing doesn't look very good to Lew Rockwell: http://lewrockwell.com/greenhut/greenhut73.1.html

Deserved its own thread

[squarepusher]

thank god the comments are actually mad at the cops, and aren't trying to apologise or lighten their actions, as often happens with police misconduct. Dorner and the police apparently share the same mindset, which is to hurt civilians and heed no care for civilian safety to accomplish their goal. So they are truly fighting one of their own and the public is just caught in the crossfire.

[bolil]

haters gonna hate, pigs gonna grunt also gonna shoot.

[Carson]

It comes to me it wouldn't be a bad idea to use an old bullet proof vest for a seat cover if you had one. Even the way out of date surplus stuff.

[UpperDecker]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/bleeder86/cops_zps59d29f39.jpg

[muh_roads]

This is sad. I don't care how much LAPD apologizes. Heads need to roll. Complete swap-out of welfare queen cops.

[tangent4ronpaul]

thank god the comments are actually mad at the cops, and aren't trying to apologise or lighten their actions, as often happens with police misconduct. Dorner and the police apparently share the same mindset, which is to hurt civilians and heed no care for civilian safety to accomplish their goal. So they are truly fighting one of their own and the public is just caught in the crossfire.

Dorner saw a fellow officer kick a suspect in the stomach twice and in the face once after he was down and in custody. He went to Internal affairs because of it and they screwed him. Where do you get this crap?

He was a good cop and got screwed for being honest. I don't really agree with the path he's taking, especially going after his foes offspring, but it's not like he's mowing down a class of first graders to promote some agenda...

-t

[mrsat_98]

Anyone recall Joe and Jerry Kane ?

[RickyJ]

All I can figure is that God didn't want it to be their time.

Yeah, God was protecting them for sure. I hope they sue the heck out of the LAPD and win. Maybe that will get the LAPD to think twice about open firing on a vehicle without any warning and without any knowledge whatsoever that the occupants were suspects in any crime.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Anyone recall Joe and Jerry Kane ?

Details? Linky?

-t

[mrsat_98]

Anyone recall Joe and Jerry Kane ?


Details? Linky?

-t

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_West_Memphis_police_shootings

Cops released audio of 911 call reporting the shooting of two officers. If one listens closely the 911 caller is so close to the action you can hear him call out the license number of one of the shooters pocket license. An hour or so later these to "Cop Killers" where gunned down in a Wal Mart parking lot at the same exit. According to released pictures while in Wal Mart the younger of the to "Cop Killers" hair grew at least an inch.

It gets uglier if you keep looking. Now the Chief of Police tours the country ablout how dangerous these Soverign Citizens are.

[Cap]

Lolz - the picture shows at least 46....


And they weren't killed. Seriously?The vehicle was probably loaded in the rear with newspapers. Bundled or stacked newspapers would be a pretty good deterrent for a 9.19 round.

[kathy88]

I've read several of these articles, VERY few people taking LAPDs side in all of this.

[tod evans]

I've read several of these articles, VERY few people taking LAPDs side in all of this.


Yet they forge ahead with the tacit complicity of "The-Newz" media....

[coastie]

I've read several of these articles, VERY few people taking LAPDs side in all of this.


Well, we'll see how the citizens hold them to account via their political process. They've allowed it for this long, after all.

[BlackJack]

Well, we'll see how the citizens hold them to account via their political process. They've allowed it for this long, after all.

Well the LAPD is known for a bunch of shootings and beatings of "suspects" for the last 30 yrs and nothing has been done to them. As long as a large group of people stand near while those pigs are abusing or has murdered someone who was unarmed and handcuffed then it will continue to happen.

[Wolfgang Bohringer]

I emailed a friend who lives near Big Bear and told him to cower in his basement until the invaders are satiated and leave so he doesn't become bugsplat. (http://lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w223.html)

Also, I doubt there's any questioning in the MSM of the standard policy of having gangs of summary execution squads roving around in the first place.

[jkr]

WOTS RONG WIF U PEEPOOOL?
DONTCHA WANNA B SAFES?

[surf]

So many things wrong here...


Tension? Parking your fat ass in front of your boss' house for eight hours with your buddies, ordering Chinese food, getting paid overtime while waiting for nothing to happen. That's what these cream puffs call tension? :rolleyes:winner

+rep

[UtahApocalypse]

I think the house owners have good cause to sue as well.

Where are the attempted homicide charges...

[PaulConventionWV]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-torrance-shooting-20130209,0,4414028.story

http://www.trbimg.com/img-5115b765/turbine/la-1356947-me-0207-shoot-02-rrc.jpg-20130208/580/580x378



more at link

Holy shit that's sad. It fills me with rage. I'm so happy to hear that at least they survived. Perhaps they won't have to deliver papers once they sue the LAPD for all they're worth.

[PaulConventionWV]

The whole thing doesn't look very good to Lew Rockwell: http://lewrockwell.com/greenhut/greenhut73.1.html

He's not the only one.

[PaulConventionWV]

You're forgetting about all the newspapers. Phone books have been used in the past to expediently armor cars.

They were lucky it happened at the beginning of their route.

-t

True. That could possibly have saved them if they were behind the seats. Otherwise, however, they might have just been sitting beside them in the backseat. Not a very effective shield if that's the case.

Unless, of course, they were sitting behind the front seat and the mother was sitting on the other side of the cabin. The cops would have shot primarily at the driver side of the truck while the newspapers protected the driver. That could explain how they didn't get killed.

[pcosmar]

1, All guns are always loaded!
2, Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy!
3, Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target!1
4, Always be sure of your target! (and what is behind it)

What part of rule #4 do they not understand?

How hard is that really?

always hear that these "trained professionals" are so much more worthy than the rest of us.

[Philhelm]

1, All guns are always loaded!
2, Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy!
3, Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target!1
4, Always be sure of your target! (and what is behind it)

What part of rule #4 do they not understand?

How hard is that really?

always hear that these "trained professionals" are so much more worthy than the rest of us.

Oh, they understand Rule #4. They just don't care. Fuck you, that's why mundane.

[tangent4ronpaul]

The vehicle was probably loaded in the rear with newspapers. Bundled or stacked newspapers would be a pretty good deterrent for a 9.19 round.

Newspapers are dropped off at 7-11's and places like that early, early in the morning and the delivery ppl process them there. By process, I mean either roll and rubber band um if it's dry or roll and slip in plastic sleeves if it's wet. Every spare inch of that minivan would have been packed with papers, so lots of bullet catch behind them to slow down or stop rounds.


True. That could possibly have saved them if they were behind the seats. Otherwise, however, they might have just been sitting beside them in the backseat. Not a very effective shield if that's the case.

Unless, of course, they were sitting behind the front seat and the mother was sitting on the other side of the cabin. The cops would have shot primarily at the driver side of the truck while the newspapers protected the driver. That could explain how they didn't get killed.

The mom was sitting behind the daughter in the back seat.

-t

[sailingaway]

Newspapers are dropped off at 7-11's and places like that early, early in the morning and the delivery ppl process them there. By process, I mean either roll and rubber band um if it's dry or roll and slip in plastic sleeves if it's wet. Every spare inch of that minivan would have been packed with papers, so lots of bullet catch behind them to slow down or stop rounds.


The mom was sitting behind the daughter in the back seat.

-t


It was a truck not a minivan and the picture of it is above in the thread - a bunch of bullets went right through the glass, and the old lady was hit twice in the back. But papers could have been in the bed of the truck, I guess. And a bunch of the bullets sprayed houses around them, from the details in the story, so didn't hit the truck at all. Good thing the bullets in that guy's doorway didn't hit someone going into or out of his house.

http://www.trbimg.com/img-5115b765/turbine/la-1356947-me-0207-shoot-02-rrc.jpg-20130208/580/580x378

[tangent4ronpaul]

Hard to tell from the pic, but I think you are right that it was a truck. Mom was probably hit with initial shots as statements said both ducked when the shooting started.

-t

[coastie]

Hard to tell from the pic, but I think you are right that it was a truck. Mom was probably hit with initial shots as statements said both ducked when the shooting started.

-t

:confused: How is that hard to tell, lol? It says freaking Tacoma on the tailgate. Glad to know some of your eyesight's are worse than mine,lol.

[pcosmar]

Every spare inch of that minivan would have been packed with papers, so lots of bullet catch behind them to slow down or stop rounds.



The mom was sitting behind the daughter in the back seat.

-t

What minivan? What back seat?

Do people actually read stories and look at pictures?

Pick up truck. Toyota Tacoma.

[tasteless]

So what ended up happening with the "Imagine A More Open America" nonsense? All the articles I've read mentioning it say it's a commonly used internet abbreviation, but I've never heard of it before.

[Expatriate]

So what ended up happening with the "Imagine A More Open America" nonsense? All the articles I've read mentioning it say it's a commonly used internet abbreviation, but I've never heard of it before.

Hah, I googled it and I can't find any mention of it not related to Dorner.

[tasteless]

Hah, I googled it and I can't find any mention of it not related to Dorner.

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080108153209AAK4kjE

That's the only mention I've found of it prior to the Dorner incident. It's from 5 years ago on a yahoo answers website, the ever reliable source of information that brought us hits like "how is babby formed (http://www.somethingawful.com/flash/shmorky/babby.swf)"

I don't get why people think CNN is in on some massive conspiracy, they can't be bright enough to pull off a conspiracy if their research is based on yahoo fucking answers

[Expatriate]

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080108153209AAK4kjE

That's the only mention I've found of it prior to the Dorner incident. It's from 5 years ago on a yahoo answers website, the ever reliable source of information that brought us hits like "how is babby formed (http://www.somethingawful.com/flash/shmorky/babby.swf)"

I don't get why people think CNN is in on some massive conspiracy, they can't be bright enough to pull off a conspiracy if their research is based on yahoo fucking answers

That one doesn't say anything about a "more open America" though.

What I find weird is that they just pulled that out of their asses and made a big deal about it on national TV. There is no motive that I can think of for that besides insanity.

[tasteless]

That one doesn't say anything about a "more open America" though.

What I find weird is that they just pulled that out of their asses and made a big deal about it on national TV. There is no motive that I can think of for that besides insanity.

No, it's on that page, scroll further down, it just wasn't chosen as the best answer.