Next Generation X-Box - Always on, always connected, no old games allowed.

[Anti Federalist]

The better to spy on you.

Millions and millions will be sold, people clamoring all over one another to buy their own chains.



The next Xbox: Always online, no second-hand games

http://www.edge-online.com/news/the-next-xbox-always-online-no-second-hand-games-50gb-blu-ray-discs-and-new-kinect/

Edge Staff at 11:57am February 6 2013

Microsoft’s next console will require an Internet connection in order to function, ruling out a second-hand game market for the platform. A new iteration of Xbox Live will be an integral part of Microsoft’s next console, while improved Kinect hardware will also ship alongside the unit.

Sources with first-hand experience of Microsoft’s next generation console have told us that although the next Xbox will be absolutely committed to online functionality, games will still be made available to purchase in physical form. Next Xbox games will be manufactured on 50GB-capacity Blu-ray discs, Microsoft having conceded defeat to Sony following its ill-fated backing of the HD-DVD format. It is believed that games purchased on disc will ship with activation codes, and will have no value beyond the initial user.

Our source has also confirmed that the next Xbox’s recently rumoured specs are entirely accurate. That means an AMD eight-core x64 1.6GHz CPU, a D3D11.x 800MHz graphics solution and 8GB of DDR3 RAM. As of now, the console’s hard drive capacity is said to be undecided, but Microsoft’s extended commitment to online delivery suggests that it will be the largest unit it has put inside a console to date.

Though the architectures of the next-gen Xbox and PlayStation both resemble that of PCs, several development sources have told us that Sony’s solution is preferable when it comes to leveraging power. Studios working with the next-gen Xbox are currently being forced to work with only approved development libraries, while Sony is encouraging coders to get closer to the metal of its box. Furthermore, the operating system overhead of Microsoft’s next console is more oppressive than Sony’s equivalent, giving the PlayStation-badged unit another advantage.

Unlike Nintendo, Microsoft is continuing to invest heavily in motion-control interfaces, and a new, more reliably responsive Kinect will also ship alongside the next Xbox. Sony’s next-generation console camera system is said to have a similar set of features, and is expected to be discussed at the company’s PlayStation event on February 20.

[bolil]

This is where the get me.

"It is believed that games purchased on disc will ship with activation codes, and will have no value beyond the initial user."

I like that not, unless they make it possible to erase the game and sell the blank bluray.

[jkr]

wont
buy
it

[GunnyFreedom]

I really hate M$.

The only money they ever got from me was to buy Halo for MacOS. When they decided that Halo would only ever operate in X-Box and to hell with anybody else, I finally said to hell with M$ for good. M$ is perpetually going int he wrong direction. As other vendors are making their products less and less proprietary (one reason why Apple is exploding of late, still proprietary OS for hardware, but slowly inexorably moving towards more openness rather than less) M$ is making theirs more and more proprietary. M$ - this is how you hemorrhage market share. Good luck with that. :)

[mikey]

Whatever, I'll still be gaming on PC like always.

[GunnyFreedom]

Whatever, I'll still be gaming on PC like always.

Well, you won't be playing any new Halo releases then. :( For a long time my favorite FPS. Last two versions have been XBox only, no PC versions. the trend seems likely to continue, given this news.

[compromise]

I really only have an Xbox for Halo, Gears and Forza.

PC gaming > all. It's not even that expensive either if you build it yourself.

[mikey]

Well, you won't be playing any new Halo releases then. :( For a long time my favorite FPS. Last two versions have been XBox only, no PC versions. the trend seems likely to continue, given this news.
I played the first one on PC and didn't like it. So I'm not going to worry to much about that, same with gears of war.

[kathy88]

What happened to Atari?

[torchbearer]

do not buy.
problem solved.

Someone was also telling me the new exchange server won't work if you turn of IPv6(the spying protocal).
I told the guy to use the older version.

[torchbearer]

What happened to Atari?


bankrupt, then bankrupt?

[paulbot24]

I got your always on/always live solution right here:
http://media.cox.com/support/images/tv/general/01_ElectricalCord_Unplug.jpg

[mikey]

There is always the Steam Box.

[GunnyFreedom]

do not buy.
problem solved.

Someone was also telling me the new exchange server won't work if you turn of IPv6(the spying protocal).
I told the guy to use the older version.

Hm. I was under the impression that IPv6 security was just different, and that the tools to secure IPv6 were still in development, and that once the security tools were fully developed for IPv6 it would no longer be any less secure than IPv4. I mean, it's less secure now, of course, because almost no security tools have been developed, and most firewalls don't account for IPv6 at all. But once we expand into IPv6 address space the development of such tools will accelerate.

What don't I know?

[torchbearer]

There is always the Steam Box.


is their a steam box?
or do you run using a tv tuner?

[torchbearer]

Hm. I was under the impression that IPv6 security was just different, and that the tools to secure IPv6 were still in development, and that once the security tools were fully developed for IPv6 it would no longer be any less secure than IPv4. I mean, it's less secure now, of course, because almost no security tools have been developed, and most firewalls don't account for IPv6 at all. But once we expand into IPv6 address space the development of such tools will accelerate.

What don't I know?


from what i understand, IPv6 give each individual device an internet address.
it gets rid of NAT, so the umbrellas of protection and privacy wouldn't be there.

[mikey]

is their a steam box?
or do you run using a tv tuner?

Valve is making a "console." It's more like a mini-pc that's optimized for gaming in the living room.

http://www.pcgamer.com/tag/steam-box/

[GunnyFreedom]

from what i understand, IPv6 give each individual device an internet address.
it gets rid of NAT, so the umbrellas of protection and privacy wouldn't be there.

Yeah, eliminating NAT is not good, but how long before someone develops an IPv6 spoofing tool that lets you custom-firewall every individual device between the public and private address?

I wholeheartedly agree that IPv6 is way, way less secure right now than IPv4. I was just under the impression that somewhere around 5 years after the transition, IPv6 will start seeing security at least as strong as we have now. Also firewall routers that are IPv6 to the WAN, but IPv4 to the LAN could fill some of those holes.

I am very open to convincing, and I recognize that any 'new' technologies are more open to tyrant-influence than established technologies in the current environment, so I'd be legitimately worried about secret regulatory back doors...but leaving aside the conspiracies for a moment to focus on a pure technology level I would imagine the new address space would simply require a different approach to achieve a roughly similar level of security. An approach that has admittedly not yet been developed.

[torchbearer]

Yeah, eliminating NAT is not good, but how long before someone develops an IPv6 spoofing tool that lets you custom-firewall every individual device between the public and private address?

I wholeheartedly agree that IPv6 is way, way less secure right now than IPv4. I was just under the impression that somewhere around 5 years after the transition, IPv6 will start seeing security at least as strong as we have now. Also firewall routers that are IPv6 to the WAN, but IPv4 to the LAN could fill some of those holes.

I am very open to convincing, and I recognize that any 'new' technologies are more open to tyrant-influence than established technologies in the current environment, so I'd be legitimately worried about secret regulatory back doors...but leaving aside the conspiracies for a moment to focus on a pure technology level I would imagine the new address space would simply require a different approach to achieve a roughly similar level of security. An approach that has admittedly not yet been developed.


well, that just it-
IPv6 wasn't needed as it is being implemented.
They could have just created an IPv6 for the high up networks and keep the consumer end in the IPv4 range.
The only reason I could see to making everything IPv6 is to have every device serialized to some orbiter who can check and see what the device is being used for...
I'm not saying that is what they are doing, but if I wanted to do that- I would have implemented IPv6 the same.

[Smart3]

I intend to go all-digital for the next consoles anyways, so I have no problem with these changes. In fact, I have never sold any of my games, and only a tiny number (mostly ps2) were used at purchase.

[GunnyFreedom]

well, that just it-
IPv6 wasn't needed as it is being implemented.
They could have just created an IPv6 for the high up networks and keep the consumer end in the IPv4 range.
The only reason I could see to making everything IPv6 is to have every device serialized to some orbiter who can check and see what the device is being used for...
I'm not saying that is what they are doing, but if I wanted to do that- I would have implemented IPv6 the same.

Yeah, I know from a development perspective working a new type of Home Automation through a series of smart devices, I prefer to address those devices via IPv6 rather than MAC address, making it easier to render complex command chains between devices. I don't much like the notion of having LAN-based IPv6 address spaces exposed to the WAN even via packet signature, so I'm not a big fan of what they are actually doing...but I will say that IPv6 will accelerate the development of my custom automation. I do want to make it truly secure however, so I am eagerly awaiting a real IPv6 security suite.

[FindLiberty]

If it's sold below cost, will it be cost effective to salvage key ("clean") parts and
move 'em on to a new system with an AMD MOBO running Linux?
Some SMD soldering may be required. Dispose of household electronics properly.

[FunkBuddha]

from what i understand, IPv6 give each individual device an internet address.
it gets rid of NAT, so the umbrellas of protection and privacy wouldn't be there.

Depending on how the host is configured, it also contains a 64-bit string that is generated by the clients MAC address in the ipv6 address.

As I understand it, you can still NAT with ipv6. You're just translating an internal address to an external interface address:port.

[MRK]

I'm calling it right now, this is going to make the xbox flop in terms of users. Although the users they do get, they're going to make a killing on them.

[Ranger29860]

PC has been this way for the most part for a long time now. It just looks to me like Microsoft is just going towards a PC way of handling game sales and always on DRM.

[VBRonPaulFan]

The entire draw of the Xbox has been just how well Microsoft does online matchmaking/competitive play. So honestly, 98%+ of everyone who has an xbox already has the thing wired to the internet all the time anyways.

Really if you are that worried about it, unplug the ethernet cable from the back of the unit after you turn it off.

[angelatc]

I really hate M$.

The only money they ever got from me was to buy Halo for MacOS. When they decided that Halo would only ever operate in X-Box and to hell with anybody else, I finally said to hell with M$ for good. M$ is perpetually going int he wrong direction. As other vendors are making their products less and less proprietary (one reason why Apple is exploding of late, still proprietary OS for hardware, but slowly inexorably moving towards more openness rather than less) M$ is making theirs more and more proprietary. M$ - this is how you hemorrhage market share. Good luck with that. :)


I'm not a gamer, really, but doesn't this sound like they're trying to duplicate Steam's model?

[VBRonPaulFan]

I intend to go all-digital for the next consoles anyways, so I have no problem with these changes. In fact, I have never sold any of my games, and only a tiny number (mostly ps2) were used at purchase.

Yeah, but a lot of folks buy a game and then when they're done, trade it with another friend for a game they've bought so they only have to each come out of pocket for one game. This will totally kill not only that, but also Redbox will no longer be able to offer the newer xbox games if this is true. Unless there will be some way to have multiple activation keys per disc somehow.

[Ranger29860]

I'm not a gamer, really, but doesn't this sound like they're trying to duplicate Steam's model?

pretty much, though Steam does have a offline mode, but that also has to be activated every 30 days. This is really just a reaction to brick and mortar stores selling games used 2 days after release for damn near retail price and not having any of that money go to the developers.

[2young2vote]

Yes, it is similar to Steam. But unlike Valve, M$ is a terrible company that tries to take as much from you as possible with little in return. Gabe Newell, who is one of the owners of Valve, is 100% focused on customer happiness. They try to give you as much stuff for free as possible. Infact, two of their biggest games ever are Free to Play (TF2 and DOTA2). That means you can actually play an entire game without paying for it. Gabe has even said that if there were to ever be a point that Steam could no longer operate they would unlock all of your Steam games so they would be DRM free. M$ would never do this.

Here is a very interesting video of Gabe Newell discussing everything from his companies flat management structure to the booms and busts of the TF2 digital economy. I suggest anyone who is interested in economics and business watch it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8QEOBgLBQU

[alucard13mmfmj]

they are shooting themselves in the foot.

for systems in this day and age.. i expect ot be able to play games from the previous generation console. UNLESS there has been a format change like from cartridge to disc for example.

[Ranger29860]

they are shooting themselves in the foot.

for systems in this day and age.. i expect ot be able to play games from the previous generation console. UNLESS there has been a format change like from cartridge to disc for example.


I think Nintendo may have found the appropriate middle ground with old games. You pay for the game ONCE in there system. and you pay a small fee to play it on diffrent systems.

So I may buy Super Mario Brothers for 5 dollars then a new handheld system comes out and I can pay a $1 charge to unlock it for the new system.

[Smart3]

Yeah, but a lot of folks buy a game and then when they're done, trade it with another friend for a game they've bought so they only have to each come out of pocket for one game. This will totally kill not only that, but also Redbox will no longer be able to offer the newer xbox games if this is true. Unless there will be some way to have multiple activation keys per disc somehow.

That will still be possible if some rumors are true regarding the PS4 - accounts tied to controllers not systems. So it will be possible to go over to your friend's house and play their games and vice-versa.

Redbox will not suffer greatly, because most of their revenue is still from the movies. They only did the games to make extra bucks off stupid people who don't return their games right away. ($2/day)

[CPUd]

Someone will have one softmodded within a week of its release.

[torchbearer]

Depending on how the host is configured, it also contains a 64-bit string that is generated by the clients MAC address in the ipv6 address.

As I understand it, you can still NAT with ipv6. You're just translating an internal address to an external interface address:port.


every network i have control over has IPv6 turned off.

[HigherVision]

I find that the more advanced that video game graphics get the less fun they are. The most fun games to me are the arcade games from the early 90's. Stuff like the Neo Geo system. & like the original Mortal Kombat series and Street Fighter 2. Those games are so much fun and look beautiful in my opinion. You can get them on an emulator system called Mame that's free. I don't bother with modern games just like I don't bother with modern music. The golden era to me of video games, music, tv. movies, etc. was 1987-1995.

[torchbearer]

I find that the more advanced that video game graphics get the less fun they are. The most fun games to me are the arcade games from the early 90's. Stuff like the Neo Geo system. & like the original Mortal Kombat series and Street Fighter 2. Those games are so much fun and look beautiful in my opinion. You can get them on an emulator system called Mame that's free. I don't bother with modern games just like I don't bother with modern music. The golden era to me of video games, music, tv. movies, etc. was 1987-1995.


I enjoy gog.com also. emu's are fun.
I love the oldies, and there are some gems in the new generation.
I've played Victoria II for hours. of course, you may be talking about the big market EA type garbage. (though EA has published some smaller shops games that were good)
Dragon Age (original) was awesome.
EA takes control and the rest of the series is crap.

[Rudeman]

They better be willing to be more aggressive with price cuts/sales (in the same way that Steam/Valve is) or I'd imagine this will be a flop. I've never been an early adopter of a gaming system so I'll wait it out and see how things go.

[Antischism]

The only way I can see this benefiting them is if they've struck deals with 3rd party developers where certain big game franchises will be exclusive to the Microsoft system. A lot of big 3rd parties are salivating at the thought of the used sales market being done away with.

[torchbearer]

have not and will not be voting with my money on the xbox.
i do all console emulation through my pc. as of right now, i can do all consoles but the ps3 and xbox.
one box to rule them all.

[heavenlyboy34]

WoW. A thread full of adults who still sit around playing video games in their parents' basement. :eek:

[torchbearer]

WoW. A thread full of adults who still sit around playing video games in their parents' basement. :eek:


there are only six of us.
the rest of the accounts on this forum are cleverly programmed bot programs. trolls and all.
its how we winz the internets.

[heavenlyboy34]

there are only six of us.
the rest of the accounts on this forum are cleverly programmed bot programs. trolls and all.
its how we winz the internets.
Amazing troll skills are amazing. :eek: :cool:

[PursuePeace]

What happened to Atari?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opru6qPsPa4


That sound instantly reminds me of my childhood.
wow. I'm old. lol.

[heavenlyboy34]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opru6qPsPa4


That sound instantly reminds me of my childhood.
wow. I'm old. lol.
Me 2! I remember when every game used cheesy sound effects like that. lolz :D I also remember vinyl records and VHS tapes.

[Aldanga]

from what i understand, IPv6 give each individual device an internet address.
it gets rid of NAT, so the umbrellas of protection and privacy wouldn't be there.
NAT was a band-aid on a hemorrhaging system running out of IP addresses. It's taken almost 20 years, but now even NAT is on the verge of failing.

(This next part is more for everyone else who isn't as familiar with IP.)
Imagine if telephone numbers were limited to 7 digits. It would be impossible to have enough phone numbers for everyone who wanted one unless a group of people were allotted a single phone number to a device which then decided to which phone incoming calls and texts should be shipped, which is essentially what NAT does for LANs. Even then, you'd eventually run out of phone numbers for those devices and would need to create another address system. That's all that IPv6 is—and it's the way the Internet was designed to function: a unique address for every device involved.

It can be argued whether or not that's the best way for the Internet to function, but IPv6 is the best solution for the problems at hand.