How the hostage situation in should be handled(easily)

[proudclod229]

This is just something that popped into my head about how to get the kid held hostage outta there:

the guy has to sleep at some point...and by the layout of his bunker, you could stick a microphone down through his ventilation to figure out when he's sleeping; after that, use nitrous oxide to keep them knocked out.

Once that's done, problem solved.

It just makes me wonder who's working on the job.

Why are there so many people there?

It could be handled by five people or less. And it should be for officer safety(NO BULLSHIT!)

If I was the child's father, I woulda been right on that when briefed about what was happening!:toady:

Coulda shoulda woulda.

[belian78]

See, that would mean employing some reason and logic. Things that the police state has in very short supply.

[kathy88]

Wow is that still going on? That poor kid.

[phill4paul]

Not S.O.P.

S.O.P.: Kill it with fire.........

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4732994684520245&pid=15.1

[torchbearer]

the kid is just shield. the guy wasn't going to the kangaroo court for warning his neighbors against destruction of his property.
the guy knew they'd be looking to kidnap him and put him in a cage at some point. the only thing keeping him alive is the kid.
why would he ever give up the kid?

[proudclod229]

the kid is just shield. the guy wasn't going to the kangaroo court for warning his neighbors against destruction of his property.
the guy knew they'd be looking to kidnap him and put him in a cage at some point. the only thing keeping him alive is the kid.
why would he ever give up the kid?

Unless he is sleeping with the kid on his lap, that doesn't apply in the slightest.

He kidnapped him, and murdered somebody. The best, and safest way to resolve this and bring him to justice would be to knock them out with gas and go in there.

Nobody will awken from nitrous-sleep.

[tangent4ronpaul]

First thing I thought when this happened is that he probably went out an escape tunnel and he's laughing his ass off as he's talking to the cops via a microphone to a speaker in the bunker. from a long way away.

nitrous oxide makes you laugh. They use Versed or Halothane to knock people out in enclosed spaces.

-t

[proudclod229]

I'm going to call up and suggest this.

[proudclod229]

You misread a bit. He wouldn't be able to leave if he was fast asleep, and they put the gas in then.

Of course, you're probably right about WHAT to use. Nitrous would work too though.

[torchbearer]

Unless he is sleeping with the kid on his lap, that doesn't apply in the slightest.

He kidnapped him, and murdered somebody. The best, and safest way to resolve this and bring him to justice would be to knock them out with gas and go in there.

Nobody will awken from nitrous-sleep.


you assume the guy doesn't have an explosive device that requires him to keep a firm hand grip to keep it from exploding.
the guy had some time to plan this...
and yes, its sad for the guy who died(being a hero- he wasn't), and for the kid that doesn't deserve this...
but it seems everyone is missing the point.
the whole conclusion is the period at the end of a very long sentence that began with his neighbors fucking up his property. as in, they had no respect for property. the guy warns them with volleys. they act like they did nothing wrong and went to the state to use violence against him.
now we have one person dead, and two more on the way to the morgue soon.

[tod evans]

The kid would be just like a miners canary............He'd zonk first giving the grown-up time to react..

[pcosmar]

I'm going to call up and suggest this.

You do that,, I believe the use of Chemical Weapons is forbidden though.

I have no idea what is up with this guy. But taking of hostages, especially a child is not justifiable.

Secure the area, quarantine,, and wait..
He will run out of food and water eventually.

[torchbearer]

now imagine if the school bus driver had been packing heat...

[proudclod229]

You do that,, I believe the use of Chemical Weapons is forbidden though.

Secure the area, quarantine,, and wait..
He will run out of food and water eventually.

1. Knocking someone out without any permenant damage can't possibly be considered as 'using chemical weapons'. A weapon is intended to cause damage and/or kill.

2. The longer the situation goes on, the worse off everybody involved will be.

3. He might be supplied for a couple of months.

[proudclod229]

The kid would be just like a miners canary............He'd zonk first giving the grown-up time to react..

Do it while they're already sleeping to ensure that he can't react.

[phill4paul]

I'm going to call up and suggest this.

I'd be interested in hearing their response. Please post it.

[pcosmar]

3. He might be supplied for a couple of months.

He might be.
Have you ever been in Solitary confinement?


Oh, and "Knock out Gasses" have been used before. They are neither safe nor effective.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incapacitating_agent (for quick reference)

There is one documented case of incapacitating agents being used in recent years. In 2002, Chechen terrorists took a large number of hostages in the Moscow theatre siege, and threatened to blow up the entire theatre if any attempt was made to break the siege. An incapacitating agent was used to disable the terrorists whilst the theatre was stormed by special forces. However, the incapacitating agent, unknown at that time, caused many of the hostages to die. The situation was not helped by the fact that the authorities kept the nature of the incapacitating agent secret from doctors trying to treat its victims. At the time, the gas was reported to be an unknown incapacitating agent called "Kolokol-1". The Russian Health Minister Yuri Shevchenko later stated that the incapacitating agent used in the storming of the Moscow theatre siege was a fentanyl derivative.

[fr33]

you assume the guy doesn't have an explosive device the requires him to keep a firm hand grip to keep it from exploding.
the guy had some time to plan this...
and yes, its sad for the guy who died(being a hero- he wasn't), and for the kid that doesn't deserve this...
but it seems everyone is missing the point.
the whole conclusion is the period at the end of a very long sentence that began with his neighbors fucking up his property. as in, they had no respect for property. the guy warns them with volleys. they act like they did nothing wrong and went to the state to use violence against him.
now we have one person dead, and two more on the way to the morgue soon.
I'm not sure about all the details but it sounds like its a shared road and their car got stuck on his speed bump. If someone is going to shoot at me over that they better kill me. In a free society a posse would come either disarm or take him out. This guy is a nut that makes us look bad.

[proudclod229]

He might be.
Have you ever been in Solitary confinement?


Oh, and "Knock out Gasses" have been used before. They are neither safe nor effective..

You're right, but at the same time, I don't agree that it wouldn't work in this case. Nitrous is safe.

Think about it: closed in space vs large theater.

They used an opiate in that theater.

A veryy potent one.

[pcosmar]

This guy is a nut that makes us look bad.

Doesn't make me look bad (I do that on my own)

I am not taking hostages, nor shooting bus drivers.

[torchbearer]

I'm not sure about all the details but it sounds like its a shared road and their car got stuck on his speed bump. If someone is going to shoot at me over that they better kill me. In a free society a posse would come either disarm or take him out. This guy is a nut that makes us look bad.

from what i've read, it was the guys road, a dirt one- and the neighbors drove a truck and trailor down it after a rain.
the guy was obsessed with people staying off his property.

[pcosmar]

You're right, but at the same time, I don't agree that it wouldn't work in this case. Nitrous is safe.


I would say Nitrous is fun. but am not sure it is safe.
Especially pumped into a confined space with unknown fuel and ignition sources.

[proudclod229]

I would say Nitrous is fun. but am not sure it is safe.
Especially pumped into a confined space with unknown fuel and ignition sources.

TRUST me...nitrous is safe. It's not flammable, and it doesn't do harm to people--dentists use it to knock people out. It's maybe not the BEST choice...I'm no chemical expert.

[AFPVet]

TRUST me...nitrous is safe. It's not flammable, and it doesn't do harm to people--dentists use it to knock people out. It's maybe not the BEST choice...I'm no chemical expert.

The problem is... too little nitrous, no effect... too much nitrous, it may oversaturate the blood and could cause death.

[pcosmar]

.I'm no chemical expert.

Neither am I. That would be Amy Pi.

It does accelerate combustion however,, as any motor head knows. It works as an Oxidizing Agent.
Also great with Rocket fuel.
Added to a fuel/air mix, and an ignition source, I am sure it would make a nice crater of that "bunker".

I like a few hits while tripping on Acid. You get some amazing visuals along with the rush.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tovUgkaTO5o

[fr33]

from what i've read, it was the guys road, a dirt one- and the neighbors drove a truck and trailor down it after a rain.
the guy was obsessed with people staying off his property.

The news doesn't make it clear. But that's all I have to go with....

http://abcnews.go.com/US/alabama-hostage-suspect-jimmy-dykes-regard-human-life/story?id=18374414

Last year Dykes, who Wilbur refers to as "Mean Man," beat her 120-pound dog Max with a lead pipe when it entered what he perceived as "his side of the road," she said. Max died a week later.


Another neighbor, Claudia Davis, told The Associated Press that he had yelled at her and fired his gun at her, her son James Davis, Jr. and her baby grandson after he claimed their truck caused damage to a speed bump in the dirt road near his property.

And the Davis guy says he's been invited onto his property before to see the bunker so Dykes sure sends mixed signals to people.

Also another story is claiming the busdriver tried to give him a gift for fixing the road. Since he doesn't have kids I don't think he owns the road. Otherwise why would a school bus be driving on it.

http://blog.al.com/montgomery/2013/02/midland_neighbor_says_bus_driv.html


According to the report, Dykes had smoothed out the sand on the dirt road where the bus turns around in the past, Miller said.

On Tuesday, Poland wanted to give Dykes a gift of yard eggs and marmalade for the gesture. But Dykes wouldn't come to the gate.

"And it wasn't long after that Mr. Jim called my Dad to the gate and said here, I don't want this," Miller said.

[torchbearer]

The news doesn't make it clear. But that's all I have to go with....

http://abcnews.go.com/US/alabama-hostage-suspect-jimmy-dykes-regard-human-life/story?id=18374414




And the Davis guy says he's been invited onto his property before to see the bunker so Dykes sure sends mixed signals to people.

Also another story is claiming the busdriver tried to give him a gift for fixing the road. Since he doesn't have kids I don't think he owns the road. Otherwise why would a school bus be driving on it.

http://blog.al.com/montgomery/2013/02/midland_neighbor_says_bus_driv.html

The media tells me lincoln and fdr are great presidents. i can find links to their version of the story.
I wonder whose side of that conflict is being pushed by the media?
The neighbors who aggressed first aren't going to say they fucked up the dude's road. i mean, they had used it before and he didn't say anything- so it must have been partly theirs, right?

There was a local article with a bunch of neighbors quoted in it, one state that it was the guy's road.

[torchbearer]

think about it, why would you get pissed at your neighbor for fucking up their road?

[fr33]

think about it, why would you get pissed at your neighbor for fucking up their road?

This guy is a nutjob obviously. He has a child held hostage. I can't relate to him. Even if it was his road they tore up that does not give him the right to shoot at them. Especially since he's invited those people on to his property before.

[torchbearer]

This guy is a nutjob obviously. He has a child held hostage. I can't relate to him. Even if it was his road they tore up that does not give him the right to shoot at them. Especially since he's invited those people on to his property before.

Warning shots are a courtesy in the rural country. If he wanted to cause them harm, he would have.


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8515/8439085822_b471a5c8ff.jpg
Looks like more people fucking up his road. Wonder if he put those barrels out as a barricade. doesn't look like PD barricade.
Does this look like a military operation?
The over-under says put your money on waco part 2.

[tod evans]

Officer safety:mad:

[fr33]

Warning shots are a courtesy in the rural country. If he wanted to cause them harm, he would have.


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8515/8439085822_b471a5c8ff.jpg
Looks like more people fucking up his road.
Does this look like a military operation?
The over-under says put your money on waco part 2.Like I said shoot at me, better kill me. If a free society his neighbors would recognize how unstable he is and do something about it. Force them to pay for the damage or fix it themselves but don't shoot. It's not a reasonable response. I'll defend the Branch Davidians and the Weavers every time but not this guy.

[torchbearer]

Like I said shoot at me, better kill me. If a free society his neighbors would recognize how unstable he is and do something about it. Force them to pay for the damage or fix it themselves but don't shoot. It's not a reasonable response. I'll defend the Branch Davidians and the Weavers every time but not this guy.

Maybe you haven't read much about this guy? He doesn't trust the government. He doesn't trust their courts. He is an anarch. That warning shot is reasonable because it is a clear message- and he wasn't shooting at them. otherwise- the action would have continued until they were dead.
We've had such disputes arise where i grew up. A place that was very minarch/ancap in the sense that law enforcement didn't exist. only respect for property and the rattle of the snake kept a peaceful community... well, until someone start damaging someone else's property.
I've seen people killing each other over drop lines being place in on someone's banks.

This whole thing is blowback from involving the state and its violence in a neighbor dispute. the very fact that this gets buried in the emotional stuff is disturbing.

[Philhelm]

If law enforcement kills the hostage, then the man doesn't have a hostage to hide behind and the situation can be quickly resolved.

[fr33]

Maybe you haven't read much about this guy? He doesn't trust the government. He doesn't trust their courts. He is an anarch. That warning shot is reasonable because it is a clear message- and he wasn't shooting at them. otherwise- the action would have continued until they were dead.
We've had such disputes arise where i grew up. A place that was very minarch/ancap in the sense that law enforcement didn't exist. only respect for property and the rattle of the snake kept a peaceful community... well, until someone start damaging someone else's property.
I've seen people killing each other over drop lines being place in on someone's banks.

This whole thing is blowback from involving the state and its violence in a neighbor dispute. the very fact that this gets buried in the emotional stuff is disturbing. Emotional? He killed an innocent man and is threatening to kill another younger one. It's indefensible.

[torchbearer]

Emotional? He killed an innocent man and is threatening to kill another younger one. It's indefensible.

the emotional part is the focus on the child.
the blowback part requires you follow the sequence of events back to when this thread of violence began.
this will not be covered.


the blowback for 9/11 didn't begin a few days or years earlier. that thread of violence goes way back.
"but those terrorist killed people!"

yes, they did. but what was the ultimate cause- or first action, that caused the event?

[pcosmar]

If law enforcement kills the hostage, then the man doesn't have a hostage to hide behind and the situation can be quickly resolved.
Have you been watching "Speed"?

[pcosmar]

It's indefensible.

You are confusing "defending" with understanding.

Not the what, but the why.

[Philhelm]

Have you been watching "Speed"?

No, I was thinking about Waco.

[fr33]

the emotional part is the focus on the child.
the blowback part requires you follow the sequence of events back to when this thread of violence began.
this will not be covered.


the blowback for 9/11 didn't begin a few days or years earlier. that thread of violence goes way back.
"but those terrorist killed people!"

yes, they did. but what was the ultimate cause- or first action, that caused the event?Blowback would be shooting a judge or a cop. This is just murder.

[torchbearer]

Blowback would be shooting a judge or a cop. This is just murder.

this is what i'm talking about- we are getting closer to the same page... i think.
see each event of violence of a amplification of a preceding one.

start with-
1. neighbor tears up the guys road(or at the very least, he percieved it as his road)
2 the guy fire shot at neighbor (violence amped again)
3. neighbor calls the state to declare the man outlaw. (violence amped again)
4. man is served with this notice to appear for trial- or he'd be considered outlaw. (a court system the guy obviously didn't see as just)
5. now, stuck in a hard place of fear of the state, he probably started planning his eventually last dance to hide in his hole. (violence amped again.
6. days before his trial date, kills a man, kidnaps a kid. (violence amped again)
7. military moves in on man, and you can fill in the blank here as violence is amped again.

It all started because someone fucked up his road. The lack of respect for property, ultimately led to the chain of violence that followed.

[proudclod229]

Like I said shoot at me, better kill me. If a free society his neighbors would recognize how unstable he is and do something about it. Force them to pay for the damage or fix it themselves but don't shoot. It's not a reasonable response. I'll defend the Branch Davidians and the Weavers every time but not this guy.

Exactly.

Nobody wants people tramping all over their property, and maybe in different situations it might be completely reasonable to fire a warning shot in the air to let somebody that you don't know that you mean business, but he knew these people, and if the true story is as it is being presented, all they did was drive on his road and MAYBE cause some damage.

There are many other reasonable courses of action to handle what happened.

So what? he's got some divots in his dirt road? Ask them to come over and fill it in...pretty simple. If not, go to court...though that would be a hard venue to prove anything, it's a hell of a lot more decent than going the the extreme of taking a hostage...for what? To what ends?

[Occam's Banana]

Blowback would be shooting a judge or a cop. This is just murder.

Blowback is blowback. The people who died on 9-11 weren't judges or cops, either. They didn't have anything to with supporting Saudi tryranny, or US policy in the Middle East, or whatever. But that didn't matter.

That's the miserable, ugly fact about blowback - it often hurts more of the innocent than the guilty. If it did not, blowback would not be undesirable. It would be justice.

[proudclod229]

this is what i'm talking about- we are getting closer to the same page... i think.
see each event of violence of a amplification of a preceding one.

start with-
1. neighbor tears up the guys road(or at the very least, he percieved it as his road)
2 the guy fire shot at neighbor (violence amped again)
3. neighbor calls the state to declare the man outlaw. (violence amped again)
4. man is served with this notice to appear for trial- or he'd be considered outlaw. (a court system the guy obviously didn't see as just)
5. now, stuck in a hard place of fear of the state, he probably started planning his eventually last dance to hide in his hole. (violence amped again.
6. kills a man, kidnaps a kid. (violence amped again)
It all started because someone fucked up his road. The lack of respect for property, ultimately led to the chain of violence that followed.

How would anyone PROVE that he fired a shot at them? It would be pretty hard to do.

It all started because he got pissed of about somebody messing up his road. The warning shot...I'll say that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

There's no reason to do that to your neighbor. You talk to them about it, then go to court if it doesn't get resolved that way. If that doesn't do the trick, then you go to the warning shot. But even then, you could install a camera...IF INDEED IT WAS EVEN HIS ROAD!

[torchbearer]

How would anyone PROVE that he fired a shot at them? It would be pretty hard to do.

It all started because he got pissed of about somebody messing up his road. The warning shot...I'll say that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

There's no reason to do that to your neighbor. You talk to them about it, then go to court if it doesn't get resolved that way. If that doesn't do the trick, then you go to the warning shot. But even then, you could install a camera...IF INDEED IT WAS EVEN HIS ROAD!

well, that is what you would do, but not everyone is like you.
some people would rather fire a shot in warning. and it was a warning shot, otherwise, he would have continued firing until out of bullets or they were dead.
the neighbors were claiming he was menacing them. well yeh, that was the point. that was the warning not to do it again.
I understand that. If I did that to my neighbors road, and he came out cussing and showering lead over my property, i'd get what he was saying.

[torchbearer]

that speed bump, most likely was his attempt to fix a reoccuring pot hole on his drive.
you wouldn't know this if you have never maintained a dirt road, but you have to fill the area with more dirt than level. leaving a hump, so as the dirt settles over time, the hole isn't remade.
I could see a dumbass neighbor plough through a wet road, think- what's his problem, i just fucked up his "speed bump".

[fr33]

Just stop comparing it Waco and Ruby Ridge. It's not the same. Those people did not do such things as this man has done. They stayed on their property and defended; and they got along fine with their neighbors. They did not agress against innocent people.

I sure hope this doesn't end like those events.

[fr33]

Blowback is blowback. The people who died on 9-11 weren't judges or cops, either. They didn't have anything to with supporting Saudi tryranny, or US policy in the Middle East, or whatever. But that didn't matter.

That's the miserable, ugly fact about blowback - it often hurts more of the innocent than the guilty. If it did not, blowback would not be undesirable. It would be justice.Exactly. What he has done is not justifiable.

[pcosmar]

No, I was thinking about Waco.

OH,,


If law enforcement kills the hostage, then the man doesn't have a hostage to hide behind and the situation can be quickly resolved.


Harry: Alright, pop quiz: The airport. Gunman with one hostage, he's using her for cover, he's almost to the plane. You're a hundred feet away.
Jack: ...
Harry: Jack?
Jack: Shoot the hostage.
Harry: What?
Jack: Take her out of the equation. Go for the good wound and he can't get to the plane with her. Clear shot.
Harry: You are deeply nuts, you know that? "Shoot the hostage"... jeez...
— Speed (1994)

I can't defend this mans actions (as the story is told),, but I can understand someone being pushed to the point of irrational stupidity.

and with the Police state on the other side,, I don't see a good outcome for anyone.

[Tod]

Didn't the Russians use gas on some people holed up in a theater?

edit: yep. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis

[tangent4ronpaul]

He probably just ran out of prozac. That seems to be a common theme in these situations.

-t

[proudclod229]

Didn't the Russians use gas on some people holed up in a theater?

edit: yep. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis

They used an aerosolized opiate. One that's used to knock out large animals(elephants, rhinos, and the like)...it didn't end well because it was too powerful. The gas ended up killing people.

This is different: it's a small bunker with one ventilation pipe, and only one hostage-taker...so I feel like it would be a better option in this case.

[tod evans]

They used an aerosolized opiate. One that's used to knock out large animals(elephants, rhinos, and the like)...it didn't end well because it was too powerful. The gas ended up killing people.

This is different: it's a small bunker with one ventilation pipe, and only one hostage-taker...so I feel like it would be a better option in this case.

Remember you're talking about federal agents here...............Look at the picture Torch posted...

Ever hear of the guy who could tear up a crowbar in a sandbox?

Well he was more on the ball than the average fed....

I'd like to see the kid walk out of there and turning feds loose hasn't worked yet..

[pcosmar]

This is different: it's a small bunker with one ventilation pipe, and only one hostage-taker...so I feel like it would be a better option in this case.
Because reasoning with the man is too difficult.

The same reason SWAT is used for minor incidents rather than just knocking on a door and being polite.

[Occam's Banana]

Exactly. What he has done is not justifiable.

It is definitely not justifiable. Nevertheless, it may still be a case of blowback.

You said blowback would be restricted to doing things like shooting a cop or a judge. That is not actually true. That was my point: blowback usually harms innocents, not the guilty.

(Although blowback can include things like killing cops or judges - see the recent thread on the DA in Texas who was shot. That may be a case of blowback, too.)

[alucard13mmfmj]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis

[proudclod229]

Because reasoning with the man is too difficult.

The same reason SWAT is used for minor incidents rather than just knocking on a door and being polite.

When did I ever say "reason with the man"?

He should be brought to justice. My big point on this is how incompetently it is being handled and sensationalized.

Like I said, if I was the boy's father, I'd do what I had to to get my son back. I wouldn't wait for these pricks in blue while they have a big circle jerk.

I'd get a nitrous tank, and a powerful microphone..slide the microphone down there to listen to when they were sleeping.

While they were sleeping, pump in nitrous oxide to keep them asleep.

Then bust in.

[Lucille]

Sheriff thanks suspect for taking care of boy
http://news.yahoo.com/sheriff-thanks-suspect-taking-care-boy-173710918.html


MIDLAND CITY, Ala. (AP) — Authorities said Saturday that they still have an open line of communication with an Alabama man accused of abducting a 5-year-old boy and holding him hostage in a bunker, and they thanked the suspect for taking care of the child as the standoff marked its fifth day.

Dale County Sheriff Wally Olson said in a briefing with reporters that Jimmy Lee Dykes has told them he has blankets and an electric heater in the bunker. Olson said Dykes has allowed authorities to deliver coloring books, medication and toys for the boy.

"I want to thank him for taking care of our boy," Olson said. "That's very important."
[...]
State Rep. Steve Clouse, who represents the Midland City area, said he visited the boy's mother and she is "hanging on by a thread." Clouse said the mother told him that the boy has Asperger's syndrome as well as attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, or ADHD.
[...]
Former hostage negotiators said authorities must be cautious and patient as long as they are confident that the boy is unharmed. Ex-FBI hostage negotiator Clint Van Zandt advised against any drastic measures such as cutting the electricity or putting sleeping gas inside the bunker because it could agitate Dykes.

[pcosmar]

Can we drop the "Bunker" Bullshit?
Bunker
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bunker

2. An underground fortification, often with a concrete projection above ground level for observation or gun emplacements.

3. (Military / Fortifications) an underground shelter, often of reinforced concrete and with a bank and embrasures for guns above ground

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bunker

a fortification set mostly below the surface of the ground with overhead protection provided by logs and earth or by concrete and fitted with openings through which guns may be fired.

storm shelter
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/storm+cellar

a cellar or underground chamber for refuge during violent storms; cyclone cellar.


an underground shelter where you can go until a storm passes
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/storm+cellar

- a structure that provides privacy and protection from danger

in the interest of intellectual honesty.

[proudclod229]

Fine. If you want to be semantically correct, we'll call it 'an underground shelter'.

[phill4paul]

When did I ever say "reason with the man"?

He should be brought to justice. My big point on this is how incompetently it is being handled and sensationalized.

Like I said, if I was the boy's father, I'd do what I had to to get my son back. I wouldn't wait for these pricks in blue while they have a big circle jerk.

I'd get a nitrous tank, and a powerful microphone..slide the microphone down there to listen to when they were sleeping.

While they were sleeping, pump in nitrous oxide to keep them asleep.

Then bust in.

What response did they give when you suggested this?

[proudclod229]

What response did they give when you suggested this?

The dept. is closed saturdays.

[Occam's Banana]

I'd get a nitrous tank, and a powerful microphone..slide the microphone down there to listen to when they were sleeping.

While they were sleeping, pump in nitrous oxide to keep them asleep.

Then bust in.

I dunno. I think maybe someone's been watching too much TV ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k55NuWQCh78


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k55NuWQCh78

[pcosmar]

When did I ever say "reason with the man"?



You didn't.
And the concept seems to be lost on most police.

[proudclod229]

I dunno. I think maybe someone's been watching too much TV ....



Oy vey.

[noneedtoaggress]

Something to keep in mind: There's a reason Anesthesiologists are some of the most extensively-trained and highly paid medical professionals. And they work in a highly controlled environment.

[noneedtoaggress]

The problem is... too little nitrous, no effect... too much nitrous, it may oversaturate the blood and could cause death.

AFPVet likely understands said reason.

[Intoxiklown]

Something to keep in mind: There's a reason Anesthesiologists are some of the most extensively-trained and highly paid medical professionals. And they work in a highly controlled environment.

EXACTLY.

Something else missed in this (because this idea HAS been floated around here), is can they deliver enough to keep them both knocked out while they use a cutting torch on the door to get in???

It is a storm shelter, yes. but it is a WELL built storm shelter. He planned this very methodically. And I don't know how many people here know about using torches on thick metal doors, but it isn't like the movies.

[RickyJ]

I hope they don't try to "save" the kid like they did for the kids at Waco, Texas. Burning down their buildings to rescue them, yeah, right! Americans that didn't wake up after Waco can't be expected to fight back when they come for the guns. This nation is doomed IMO.

[bolil]

Easy to say, hard to do. Save the kid, thats all I give shit about, He hasn't killed the kid yet,.

[fr33]

Can we drop the "Bunker" Bullshit?

Really it's not bullshit. It's just trivial to argue about. All evidence points to him being a violent asshole that probably built the "shelter" as part of a plan to do something like he is doing right now.

He went out of his way to threaten people.

The biggest aggression against him so far is that his neighbor's dog barely crossed the road so he killed it, and another neighbor spun out his tires on what might be his road (though unlikely judging from news reports and the fact that there isn't much room for a road on a whole whopping 2 acres) so he shot at them.

Poor oppressed Jimmy Dykes. A dog crossed the road and a car spun it's wheels. Damn the man.

The man is a psychopath that built the shelter and stored up shit just so he could cause some drama.

Then he went out and murdered a busdriver and took a kid hostage.

Peeling out in his driveway is not any measurable form of aggression. This dude was stocking up to do exactly what he is doing.

He may fancy himself as an anti-gov anarchist but he is the shittiest spokesman ever.

[phill4paul]

They need to play Van Halen's "Panama" on 11. That'll do it.

[torchbearer]

Easy to say, hard to do. Save the kid, thats all I give shit about, He hasn't killed the kid yet,.

what if the only way for the child to walk out alive is for the man to be left alone?
and since no one will let that happen, they are ok with killing the kid to get to him.
That guy may be creeper, but i don't think he intends to kill the kid. that would doom him as well. the only people there that could harm the kid are the military folks at the location.

[torchbearer]

They need to play Van Halen's "Panama" on 11. That'll do it.

don't do that to the kid.

[phill4paul]

don't do that to the kid.

Sorry, we don't negotiate and we accept collateral damage as a price for it.

[RickyJ]

I hope the kid gets out alive. I will be praying for him. The cops don't help the situation here, they can't think their way out of a paper bag.

[pcosmar]

EXACTLY.

Something else missed in this (because this idea HAS been floated around here), is can they deliver enough to keep them both knocked out while they use a cutting torch on the door to get in???

Why would you use a cutting torch on plywood? Ans why would you use a torch on any gas filled room?


It is a storm shelter, yes. but it is a WELL built storm shelter. He planned this very methodically. And I don't know how many people here know about using torches on thick metal doors, but it isn't like the movies.

It is a storm shelter,, it was built as a storm shelter. He lived in a small Trailer..
And how do you know that he planned any of this at all?

All indications I get are that he wanted to be left the fuck alone.

What thick metal doors? The neighbor kid described the place..old bricks, and plywood doors. it is a storm shelter.

[tod evans]

It sounds better if the dude is portrayed as a psycho in some type of fortified military grade bunker...

How else could hundreds of thousands of tax-payer dollars and all of the hut-hut brigade be justified?

[JK/SEA]

no options. You have to wait him out and hope for the best. He has everyone in check....appeal to whats left of his humanity.

[presence]

Not S.O.P.

S.O.P.: Kill it with fire.........

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4732994684520245&pid=15.1

Nitrous goes boom too.



http://images.topix.com/gallery/up-ICFBBDFJL8NSB0C1.jpg

[pcosmar]

Nitrous goes boom too.



http://images.topix.com/gallery/up-ICFBBDFJL8NSB0C1.jpg

I tried to explain that earlier.
was ignored.

[proudclod229]

Nitrous is not explosive; you're right that it's an accelerant.

Here's another thing though...where are all those tiny cameras that we know the govt has.

If they can get the complete layout of what's down there, they can definitely get a better idea of how to maybe make a rescue.

I have to agree though with the people saying that the best thing to do is wait it out...for now.

The longer it goes on, the more dangerous it is for the kid. :/ poor kid.