16 Open Carriers trying to enjoy dinner vs Several Police Officers!

[ZENemy]

This is sad, funny, stupid and slightly empowering all at the same time. Gun owners are the new smokers.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQJ_FJ8zsQ

[ZENemy]

Imagine if a "lone killer" tried to run up in there ? phshsh, 16 Americans ready to stand up and defend themselves and probably anyone else in that room.

[buck000]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vDA9CIj93c

:)

[bunklocoempire]

Imagine the police union and the threat of competition.

Thanks for posting!

[PaulConventionWV]

This is sad, funny, stupid and slightly empowering all at the same time. Gun owners are the new smokers.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQJ_FJ8zsQ

What does that mean, "Gun owners are the new smokers"? Is that supposed to make smokers look good as if smoking was even relevant to liberty?

[TonySutton]

I am surprised they were not arrested for inducing panic...

[Anti Federalist]

What does that mean, "Gun owners are the new smokers"? Is that supposed to make smokers look good as if smoking was even relevant to liberty?

It means that the social controllers, neo-Puritans and nosy moral busy bodies, with nothing better to do with their time than hound and harrass and ostracize people that are living their lives or enjoying things that they disapprove of, will now set their sights on the use, ownership and sales of firearms as their new "moral crusade".

If successful, they will be within sight of total prohibition within thirty years, just like the anti-smoking fascists are now.

[belian78]

I believe he means that we're the new 'public menace' in place of what used to be smokers. The only reason they singled out the one guy was that he was the only one conversing with those assholes. They thought they could get somewhere with him, and get info on the rest of the group. Had he refused to even give his business card in the beginning, and remained civil, the cops would have had nothing to go on.

DON'T TALK TO COPS!!! AT ALL!!!

[opal]

It means that the social controllers, neo-Puritans and nosy moral busy bodies, with nothing better to do with their time than hound and harrass and ostracize people that are living their lives or enjoying things that they disapprove of, will now set their sights on the use, ownership and sales of firearms as their new "moral crusade".

If successful, they will be within sight of total prohibition within thirty years, just like the anti-smoking fascists are now.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Anti Federalist again.

[fisharmor]

Can't watch video. What state?

[nobody's_hero]

It means that the social controllers, neo-Puritans and nosy moral busy bodies, with nothing better to do with their time than hound and harrass and ostracize people that are living their lives or enjoying things that they disapprove of, will now set their sights on the use, ownership and sales of firearms as their new "moral crusade".

If successful, they will be within sight of total prohibition within thirty years, just like the anti-smoking fascists are now.

I'm getting all jittery and nostalgic for the days when people carried handguns openly and the Waffle House urinals were filled with cigarette butts.

Brother, I remember America.

[Kylie]

Missouri.

Can't hear anything though, for the talking kid in the foreground.

[EBounding]

Imagine if a "lone killer" tried to run up in there ? phshsh, 16 Americans ready to stand up and defend themselves and probably anyone else in that room.

Nonsense, Citizen! You don't need a gun. All you need is a sturdy desk to hide under and maybe a set of scissors.

[jmdrake]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ZENemy again.


This is sad, funny, stupid and slightly empowering all at the same time. Gun owners are the new smokers.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQJ_FJ8zsQ

[AgentforPathfinder]

Although this was a cool video, I was disappointed by how severely obese many of those Libertarian 2nd amendment people in the video were. This has been a trend I've noticed in my activism, and it really upsets me. Anyone else feel the same way?

[nobody's_hero]

Although this was a cool video, I was disappointed by how severely obese many of those Libertarian 2nd amendment people in the video were. This has been a trend I've noticed in my activism, and it really upsets me. Anyone else feel the same way?

That's why we carry guns. We're too fat to run away.

[Anti Federalist]

That's why we carry guns. We're too fat to run away.

ROFL!

Oh brother that gets a mega rep!

[Anti Federalist]

Although this was a cool video, I was disappointed by how severely obese many of those Libertarian 2nd amendment people in the video were. This has been a trend I've noticed in my activism, and it really upsets me. Anyone else feel the same way?

That is not obesity...

That is drought and famine resistance.

[Anti Federalist]

I'm getting all jittery and nostalgic for the days when people carried handguns openly and the Waffle House urinals were filled with cigarette butts.

Brother, I remember America.

And you could walk down the street without 250 million cameras and 30,000 drones watching your every move.

[nobody's_hero]

That is not obesity...

That is drought and famine resistance.

LOL. The humor abounds.

[devil21]

Great vid! Watching the cops brains lock up when everyone doesn't fall for their little mindgame tricks. They don't know what to do and just stand there! They're also very careful knowing they're badly outgunned.

That's the safest Steak n Shake in the entire country and NOT because of the cops.

[Pisces]

Although this was a cool video, I was disappointed by how severely obese many of those Libertarian 2nd amendment people in the video were. This has been a trend I've noticed in my activism, and it really upsets me. Anyone else feel the same way?

Why does it upset you? It's not like it is contagious or anything. I don't want to derail the thread, I'm just curious why this bothers you so much. Besides, I don't know that these guys are "severely obese". I think some are also hunched over and that might be making them look fatter.

[tod evans]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Anti Federalist again.

covered

[Pisces]

Missouri.

Can't hear anything though, for the talking kid in the foreground.

I couldn't really hear anything either. The best part was the end where the manager is said to have refused to ask the open carriers to leave and tells the cops they are the only ones making trouble in the restaurant.

[Matthew5]

That child made the video almost unwatchable.

Good to see everyone (including the manager) peacefully standing up for their rights. I suppose there is safety in numbers though.

[kathy88]

That's why we carry guns. We're too fat to run away.owe you a rep

[Danke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYnGIxBwjK0

[Matthew5]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYnGIxBwjK0

Did that cop JUST compare his situation to racial segregation???

I have a feeling there's going to be a lot of meth found in the back of the coffee shop.

[devil21]

I believe he means that we're the new 'public menace' in place of what used to be smokers. The only reason they singled out the one guy was that he was the only one conversing with those assholes. They thought they could get somewhere with him, and get info on the rest of the group. Had he ]refused to even give his business card in the beginning, and remained civil, the cops would have had nothing to go on.

DON'T TALK TO COPS!!! AT ALL!!!

Im pretty sure what he gave the cops was a business card paper explaining that OC is legal in his state, he is not required to give ID and he will not speak to the police under any circumstances. It wasn't his actual business card with personal info.


Although this was a cool video, I was disappointed by how severely obese many of those Libertarian 2nd amendment people in the video were. This has been a trend I've noticed in my activism, and it really upsets me. Anyone else feel the same way?

I dont know who you hang out with or what vids you're watching but this is bullshit right here. Some of the people at the table are overweight, yes, but not severely obese and in case you missed it, there's a lot of overweight people (many more) that aren't libertarians. Go find me some slob in a hoverround at Walmart and ask him if hes a libertarian.

[ninepointfive]

Missouri.

Can't hear anything though, for the talking kid in the foreground.

guess having kids makes you tune them out. I didn't really even notice him.

[FindLiberty]

1) Watched that OP YouTube video. Beautiful!
2) Immediately drove to nearest (Illinois) Steak'nShake to eat my late afternoon lunch. (Side salad and triple hamburger w/fries!) I didn't take advantage of their 50%-off drinks 2-4am/pm special offer, but those milk shakes they served to the folks at the next table looked mighty good to me.
3) I spoke with the manager 'bout my sudden urge to order sumptin’ from Steak'nShake 'cause I saw that fine Missouri Steak'nShake Manager jus tell those police to “just leave”, right thar in thatcha video.
4) Before leaving, I left a heafty 50% tip (my bill was under $6).

Hmmmm Goood... Steak'nShake!

[belian78]

I'm so torn.. I'd love to splurge at Steak n Shake, it's one of my favorites. But I'm on a diet and going to the gym, I feel like I'd be betraying my hard work. LOL

[osan]

One error I discerned was the presentation of a "business card" to the cops. I would not have done it.

Refuse ID. Refuse to answer questions. Ask whether you are being detained. If not, have a nice day.

[pcosmar]

One error I discerned was the presentation of a "business card" to the cops. I would not have done it.

Refuse ID. Refuse to answer questions. Ask whether you are being detained. If not, have a nice day.

I was under the impression that it was an Open Carry Card,, (educational information)

Sort of like the "Blind" Cards that some folks carry.

[BlackJack]

I saw this video last year and watching it gave me a hope that not all Americans will bow down to the legal thugs who hide behind their badges.

[AGRP]

This video is really old.

[BlackJack]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYnGIxBwjK0

I checked out her blog and she wrote over 4 blog entries about that coffee shop owner. I wonder what her husband would think of her pining for this loser.

http://www.corneliaseigneur.com/now-you-try-going-as-a-police-officer-to-the-red-and-black-as-the-story-continues/

Check out some of the comments below.

[QuickZ06]

This video is really old.

So, never seen it until now and it is was great. Thanks for postin Zen!

[Carson]

That is not obesity...

That is drought and famine resistance.


LOL. The humor abounds.

Who's to say what the future may bring at this point? We sure can't save for it any other way.

[jcannon98188]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYnGIxBwjK0
The coffee shop was called the red and black. It was a red star, on a black background. FYI, that is an Anarchist symbol. It was an Anarchist Coffee shop. What exactly did the cop expect walking in there? Idiot. This video actually makes me smile.

[jcannon98188]

The real hero here is the manager who refused to tell them to leave.

[Nastynate]

The coffee shop was called the red and black. It was a red star, on a black background. FYI, that is an Anarchist symbol. It was an Anarchist Coffee shop. What exactly did the cop expect walking in there? Idiot. This video actually makes me smile.

Not to mention the flag outside the shop. It looked like an anarchist flag.

[BlackJack]

The coffee shop was called the red and black. It was a red star, on a black background. FYI, that is an Anarchist symbol. It was an Anarchist Coffee shop. What exactly did the cop expect walking in there? Idiot. This video actually makes me smile.

It was sad too how he actually had the nerve to compare his situation to that of the Civil Rights era.

[Jackie Moon]

The coffee shop was called the red and black. It was a red star, on a black background. FYI, that is an Anarchist symbol. It was an Anarchist Coffee shop. What exactly did the cop expect walking in there? Idiot. This video actually makes me smile.


Not to mention the flag outside the shop. It looked like an anarchist flag.

Looks like an Anarcho-Syndicalism/Anarcho-Communism flag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism). Apparently the cop didn't have very good observation skills.

From their website:

The Red and Black, founded in 2000, is a worker-owned cooperative restaurant and community space in Southeast Portland, Oregon. As a non-hierarchical and democratic workplace we are, in our own small way, living the dream of a world without bosses. We are proudly unionized with the Portland branch of the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW) and are a closed shop, meaning all of our workers are union members. We also belong to the United States Federation of Worker Cooperatives.

The Red and Black is a hub of radical activity; we host regular events by a variety of local, national and international social justice activists, authors, filmmakers and others.

[osan]

I was under the impression that it was an Open Carry Card,, (educational information)

Sort of like the "Blind" Cards that some folks carry.

Even so - they have NO need or obligation to explain themselves to police. I suppose it is a principle v. pragmatism thing. Perhaps I am too slavish about principle, but the way I see it people appear to require the baptism by bitch-slap these days where their ignorance is concerned because if you give an inch they take it as license to go for the rest of the mile. At some point the line-in-the-sand issue raises its head and one must either stand his ground or fold like the proverbial cheap suit/accordian. Will you have your rights respected or will you cave to the pressure of those holding no rightful claim upon your territory - those who demand it just because they feel it is owed?

Trespass runs wildly across the face of the globe like one of the Horsemen and the onus of choice is upon us.

[presence]

The officers went away sad with nothing to arrest

:)

[Jeremy]

I am surprised they were not arrested for inducing panic...

In a blue state maybe

[LibertyEagle]

I checked out her blog and she wrote over 4 blog entries about that coffee shop owner. I wonder what her husband would think of her pining for this loser.

What did he do that makes you classify him as a "loser"?

Ron Paul has a number of supporter who are policemen. Before we just haul off and do our damnedest to wholesale ostracize ALL police, military, etc., it seems to me that we should consider that this would seem to be like biting off our own noses to spite our face.

Maybe it would be better to criticize individual actions, rather than an entire group.

[AgentforPathfinder]

Why does it upset you? It's not like it is contagious or anything. I don't want to derail the thread, I'm just curious why this bothers you so much. Besides, I don't know that these guys are "severely obese". I think some are also hunched over and that might be making them look fatter.

If we are going to win campaigns in 2014, and 2016, we cannot have anyone look at us and laugh. Obese libertarians means lack of personal responsibility. People who are obese and cannot keep their bodies fit are irresponsible. If you cannot manage your own body, you cannot manage anything. It just reinforces the image liberals have of us that Libertarians are either stupid fat rednecks or fat internet-addicted losers that live in mom's basement.

I don't want to hear about it's "liberty". Obesity = personal irresponsibilty. It looks hypocritical for Libertarians to talk about personal responsibility while being obese.

[tod evans]

Placing too much stock in appearances is never wise.

There are very intelligent fat people too.

Personally I'd rather converse with a smart, good natured fat person than someone who places undue importance on the superficial.

(52 years old wearing 30" waist levis before any assumptions are made)


If we are going to win campaigns in 2014, and 2016, we cannot have anyone look at us and laugh. Obese libertarians means lack of personal responsibility. People who are obese and cannot keep their bodies fit are irresponsible. If you cannot manage your own body, you cannot manage anything. It just reinforces the image liberals have of us that Libertarians are either stupid fat rednecks or fat internet-addicted losers that live in mom's basement.

I don't want to hear about it's "liberty". Obesity = personal irresponsibilty. It looks hypocritical for Libertarians to talk about personal responsibility while being obese.

[Pericles]

One error I discerned was the presentation of a "business card" to the cops. I would not have done it.

Refuse ID. Refuse to answer questions. Ask whether you are being detained. If not, have a nice day.

Are you a police officer?

Could I see some ID that verifies that?

Questions best asked with about a dozen buddies with rifles in an overwatch position.

[mello]

Quick question, is it my right in any State to decline a cop's request for identification if I am literally doing nothing wrong? I understand showing my ID if I'm speeding but I'm talking about the situation on the video, even if I wasn't strapped.

[Pericles]

Quick question, is it my right in any State to decline a cop's request for identification if I am literally doing nothing wrong? I understand showing my ID if I'm speeding but I'm talking about the situation on the video, even if I wasn't strapped.

Varies by state - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes to start reading

[ZENemy]

Giving them your ID = first step into contracting with them. Giving them a card with your name on it = you may be open to contracting if further harassed.

When I get pulled over, I don't even roll my window down. I CRACK it and slide my license (forced to contract under duress) and insurance out to them. Don't talk to police.

[camp_steveo]

It's a shame the police did not know this was legal.

[Origanalist]

If we are going to win campaigns in 2014, and 2016, we cannot have anyone look at us and laugh. Obese libertarians means lack of personal responsibility. People who are obese and cannot keep their bodies fit are irresponsible. If you cannot manage your own body, you cannot manage anything. It just reinforces the image liberals have of us that Libertarians are either stupid fat rednecks or fat internet-addicted losers that live in mom's basement.

I don't want to hear about it's "liberty". Obesity = personal irresponsibilty. It looks hypocritical for Libertarians to talk about personal responsibility while being obese.

Lol, it's the appearance police.

[belian78]

It's a shame the police did not know this was legal.
Most likely these jackboots knew what the law was, they just didn't care. They got a call from someone and that's all it takes, they come on down there armed to the teeth and see what they can extract from the situation.

[AgentforPathfinder]

Lol, it's the appearance police.

Go ahead and laugh at what I say, but if this movement is going anywhere, we cannot afford to look ridiculous.

[Origanalist]

Go ahead and laugh at what I say, but if this movement is going anywhere, we cannot afford to look ridiculous.

Thanks, but I already did.

[LibertyEagle]

Go ahead and laugh at what I say, but if this movement is going anywhere, we cannot afford to look ridiculous.

Is that why you chose to have Trotsky as your avatar, because you think it somehow lends you credibility? :rolleyes:

[belian78]

Go ahead and laugh at what I say, but if this movement is going anywhere, we cannot afford to look ridiculous.
Rush, Ed, McCain, Christie all seem to be taken seriously. Just sayin..

[pcosmar]

Go ahead and laugh at what I say, but if this movement is going anywhere, we cannot afford to look ridiculous.

lol

http://img4.allvoices.com/thumbs/image/609/480/95788157-hillary-clinton.jpg

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/funny-politician-faces-16-e1284090851623.jpg?w=500

http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq128/Gmanr1/mitt-romney-glove-fudge-400.jpg

Yeah,,OK.

[BlackJack]

What did he do that makes you classify him as a "loser"?

If you live in an area where your local police force has a history of racial profiling and is known for beating up a schizophrenic then drinking a Starbucks coffee over him then there's a serious problem with the local justice system. A little social justice and a small coffee shop owner exercising his property rights because he has a healthy fear of the local legal thugs in his area is nothing embarrassing compared to what nonviolent protesters had to endure.

And what classifies him as a loser is his ignorance to the crimes committed by his own employer and the apparent reason for him getting kicked out.


Ron Paul has a number of supporter who are policemen. Before we just haul off and do our damnedest to wholesale ostracize ALL police, military, etc., it seems to me that we should consider that this would seem to be like biting off our own noses to spite our face.

Good for Ron Paul, but as my grandfather said to me when I was 13, "We're living in the now," and currently those good officers are far and few in between.


Maybe it would be better to criticize individual actions, rather than an entire group.

When an entire group is known to cover the asses of those rogue individuals, the argument of generalizations is moot.

[belian78]

Going back over Agent's posts since becoming a member, it seems all he/she does is make incendiary comments about Libertarians. To my ignore list he goes.

[HOLLYWOOD]

FOR THE RECORD:

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee332/McLieberman/Missouri_Open_Carry.png

[Occam's Banana]

If we are going to win campaigns in 2014, and 2016, we cannot have anyone look at us and laugh. Obese libertarians means lack of personal responsibility. People who are obese and cannot keep their bodies fit are irresponsible. If you cannot manage your own body, you cannot manage anything. It just reinforces the image liberals have of us that Libertarians are either stupid fat rednecks or fat internet-addicted losers that live in mom's basement.

I don't want to hear about it's "liberty". Obesity = personal irresponsibilty. It looks hypocritical for Libertarians to talk about personal responsibility while being obese.

I don't like giving out neg-reps. I have only ever done so once. But you are cruisin' to be the second ...

I've heard some pretty goddam idiotic "litmus tests" for libertarianism before, but this one takes the waistline-expanding cake.

How about this litmus test: if you "don't want to hear about it's 'liberty'", then you are NOT a libertarian. Go to hell.

[VoluntaryAmerican]

FOR THE RECORD:

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee332/McLieberman/Missouri_Open_Carry.png

Police officer should be charged with harassment, in my opinion.

[mello]

Varies by state - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes to start reading

After checking the link I found Wisconsin's State Statute:

968.24  Temporary questioning without arrest. After having identified himself or herself as a law enforcement officer, a law enforcement officer may stop a person in a public place for a reasonable period of time when the officer reasonably suspects that such person is committing, is about to commit or has committed a crime, and may demand the name and address of the person and an explanation of the person's conduct. Such detention and temporary questioning shall be conducted in the vicinity where the person was stopped.

So say I'm sitting at a bench minding my own business & a cop walks up & asks for ID. Should I ask the officer if he reasonably suspects that I am committing, about to commit or has committed a crime to justify showing my ID to him?

[AgentforPathfinder]

Again, I don't mean to be incendiary, but there is so much hate by Liberals and Neo-Cons towards Libertarians that it is something we need to consider.

[BlackJack]

Again, I don't mean to be incendiary, but there is so much hate by Liberals and Neo-Cons towards Libertarians that it is something we need to consider.

Troll.......

[awake]

It really is all about competition. The police men's first job is to try to make sure there are no other 'police like' service providers that might make them look bad and threaten their positions as monopolists. They truly hate competition as Ron's sticker clearly states.

[AFPVet]

You would actually be surprised at how many cops don't know the law. They never updated us on changes in the law... in fact, all they did was give us basic law enforcement training that consisted of



Introduction to Law Enforcement
Ethics
Criminal Justice System and Standards
Indiana Legal Systems
Jurisdiction
4th Amendment Arrest
Warrant/Warrantless Arrest
Search and Seizures
Exceptions to the Search Warrant Requirement
Physical Evidence, Suspect ID, and Miranda Developments
Indiana Penal Code
Traffic Law Procedures
Driving under the Influence
Information /Complaint & Summons
Hit and Run Statutes
Driver's License Regulations
Traffic Statutes
Speed Laws and Local Regulations
Emergency Vehicle Operations
Juvenile Procedures
Force Continnum




... along with weapons and tactics. We also had ancillary training every now and then for first aid and emergency preparedness. Then they gave us a blue book that had all of the criminal and traffic codes. We had to look up what we didn't know. You seriously had to look through the damn book to see if there was anything to charge them with. We could no longer hold for the 48 hour probable cause because the prosecutor didn't like that.

The bottom line... cops don't always know the law... in fact, they often don't. Now I took the course back in 2006, so a lot may have changed, but I kept the materials.

[Occam's Banana]

Again, I don't mean to be incendiary, but there is so much hate by Liberals and Neo-Cons towards Libertarians that it is something we need to consider.

So let's solve that problem by hating on fat libertarians ...

Good Lord! Why didn't anyone realize this before? If we can just shame fat libertarians into lose some weight, liberals and neo-conservatives won't hate us so much!

My God, it's brilliant! And here we were thinking they hated us because of our ideas. Silly us ...

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Anti Federalist]

Is that why you chose to have Trotsky as your avatar, because you think it somehow lends you credibility? :rolleyes:

Burn...

[Origanalist]

So let's solve that problem by hating on fat libertarians ...

Good Lord! Why didn't anyone realize this before? If we can just shame fat libertarians into lose some weight, liberals and neo-conservatives won't hate us so much!

My God, it's brilliant! And here we were thinking they hated us because of our ideas. Silly us ...

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I know huh? How could we have missed it?

[jcannon98188]

Rush, Ed, McCain, Christie all seem to be taken seriously. Just sayin..

I don't necesarilly agree with Agent (well, I mean everyone should take better care of themselves but I don't think that anyone in an ebarassment to the movement because they're fat.) but those people DO get made fun of for their weight a lot.

[jcannon98188]

Placing too much stock in appearances is never wise.

There are very intelligent fat people too.

Personally I'd rather converse with a smart, good natured fat person than someone who places undue importance on the superficial.

(52 years old wearing 30" waist levis before any assumptions are made)

30" you should be 28" you tubby tubs!:)

[Jackie Moon]

So say I'm sitting at a bench minding my own business & a cop walks up & asks for ID. Should I ask the officer if he reasonably suspects that I am committing, about to commit or has committed a crime to justify showing my ID to him?

A few months ago I was sitting on my couch watching TV and a cop knocked on the door and asked if he could see my ID. Guess I was channel surfing too fast.

[BlackJack]

I don't necesarilly agree with Agent (well, I mean everyone should take better care of themselves but I don't think that anyone in an ebarassment to the movement because they're fat.) but those people DO get made fun of for their weight a lot.

And so do the neocons and socialists. Doesn't make any difference except for the mindsets.

[PaulConventionWV]

It means that the social controllers, neo-Puritans and nosy moral busy bodies, with nothing better to do with their time than hound and harrass and ostracize people that are living their lives or enjoying things that they disapprove of, will now set their sights on the use, ownership and sales of firearms as their new "moral crusade".

If successful, they will be within sight of total prohibition within thirty years, just like the anti-smoking fascists are now.

Being anti-smoking and fascist are two completely different things. What's more, guns actually serve a purpose, unlike smoking. Making guns look like some kind of anathema to the state is just silly in my opinion. It's like saying gun owners are the new coke dealers. Sure, doing coke is fine from a liberty standpoint, but it's certainly not anything to be proud of. I don't get why so many people think smoking is the ultimate act of rebellion just because people want laws against it. That doesn't make it any more admirable or healthy. I support completely your right to smoke, but I abhor the use of commercial cigarettes. In fact, commercial cigarettes were used in the early stages of the feminist movement, which I see as another example of the social programming that's been going on, as I'm sure you know, anti-fed.

[PaulConventionWV]

I'm getting all jittery and nostalgic for the days when people carried handguns openly and the Waffle House urinals were filled with cigarette butts.

Brother, I remember America.

I really don't get what's so attractive about smoking. Now it symbolizes the greatness of America. Give me a break. Cigarette butts in the urinal is America. Please.

[PaulConventionWV]

Although this was a cool video, I was disappointed by how severely obese many of those Libertarian 2nd amendment people in the video were. This has been a trend I've noticed in my activism, and it really upsets me. Anyone else feel the same way?

Are you kidding? The obese are the new smokers! They are the freedom fighters! Everyone get fat to show how much of a rebel you are!

[Ender]

If we are going to win campaigns in 2014, and 2016, we cannot have anyone look at us and laugh. Obese libertarians means lack of personal responsibility. People who are obese and cannot keep their bodies fit are irresponsible. If you cannot manage your own body, you cannot manage anything. It just reinforces the image liberals have of us that Libertarians are either stupid fat rednecks or fat internet-addicted losers that live in mom's basement.

I don't want to hear about it's "liberty". Obesity = personal irresponsibilty. It looks hypocritical for Libertarians to talk about personal responsibility while being obese.

Get over yourself- Marilyn Monroe would be considered "obese" today.

[PaulConventionWV]

After checking the link I found Wisconsin's State Statute:

968.24  Temporary questioning without arrest. After having identified himself or herself as a law enforcement officer, a law enforcement officer may stop a person in a public place for a reasonable period of time when the officer reasonably suspects that such person is committing, is about to commit or has committed a crime, and may demand the name and address of the person and an explanation of the person's conduct. Such detention and temporary questioning shall be conducted in the vicinity where the person was stopped.

So say I'm sitting at a bench minding my own business & a cop walks up & asks for ID. Should I ask the officer if he reasonably suspects that I am committing, about to commit or has committed a crime to justify showing my ID to him?

You do not have to show your ID in that case. He has no reason to suspect you. This you already know. Don't ask him unless it's rhetorical. Even if you are walking away from the scene of a crime, there is no legitimate reason to suspect you of anything unless he has some factual basis for it besides being close to a crime scene.

[fr33]

Being anti-smoking and fascist are two completely different things. What's more, guns actually serve a purpose, unlike smoking. Making guns look like some kind of anathema to the state is just silly in my opinion. It's like saying gun owners are the new coke dealers. Sure, doing coke is fine from a liberty standpoint, but it's certainly not anything to be proud of. I don't get why so many people think smoking is the ultimate act of rebellion just because people want laws against it. That doesn't make it any more admirable or healthy. I support completely your right to smoke, but I abhor the use of commercial cigarettes. In fact, commercial cigarettes were used in the early stages of the feminist movement, which I see as another example of the social programming that's been going on, as I'm sure you know, anti-fed.
The point is that these gun owners and the owner of the restaurant have witnessed just a tiny taste of what smokers are already experienced. Well the owner might have already gone through the smoking ban, I don't know.

Don't allow smokers in your restaurant.

Don't allow gun owners in your restaurant.

Thus says the state.

One is already banned in many places if not most and the other is following fast to be banned as well.

I've often said smokers are the new ******s. They can be run off private and public property no matter who actually owns the property just by govt decree. Jim Crow laws have been replaced by Joe Camel laws.

[Henry Rogue]

It means that the social controllers, neo-Puritans and nosy moral busy bodies, with nothing better to do with their time than hound and harrass and ostracize people that are living their lives or enjoying things that they disapprove of, will now set their sights on the use, ownership and sales of firearms as their new "moral crusade".

If successful, they will be within sight of total prohibition within thirty years, just like the anti-smoking fascists are now.
+ rep, just wanted to see this posted again.

[Noob]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvLXUGYc-_k

[Anti Federalist]

////

[BlackTerrel]

Very interesting. Thanks for posting. Reposted.

[Anti Federalist]

It means that the social controllers, neo-Puritans and nosy moral busy bodies, with nothing better to do with their time than hound and harrass and ostracize people that are living their lives or enjoying things that they disapprove of, will now set their sights on the use, ownership and sales of firearms as their new "moral crusade".

If successful, they will be within sight of total prohibition within thirty years, just like the anti-smoking fascists are now.

///

[nobody's_hero]

Let it die. The thread must die.

[speciallyblend]

I really don't get what's so attractive about smoking. Now it symbolizes the greatness of America. Give me a break. Cigarette butts in the urinal is America. Please.

i hear you, granted i smoke marijuana but perfer to eat it. I do not demand to smoke in a restaurant or in public places. In Colorado i would say a majority of folks who smoke or eat marijuana . Do not smoke Cigs including myself.

[Fox McCloud]

Dunno why the police even bothered about the open carry.

Giving them a warning for being a public menace because of the children, however? A bit more understandable =p