Panetta opens combat roles to women

[green73]

WASHINGTON (AP) - Senior defense officials say Pentagon chief Leon Panetta is removing the military's ban on women serving in combat, opening hundreds of thousands of front-line positions and potentially elite commando jobs after more than a decade at war.

The groundbreaking move recommended by the Joint Chiefs of Staff overturns a 1994 rule banning women from being assigned to smaller ground combat units. Panetta's decision gives the military services until January 2016 to seek special exceptions if they believe any positions must remain closed to women.

http://www.wtop.com/931/3181819/Panetta-opens-combat-roles-to-women

[kcchiefs6465]

God forbid one of them gets captured.

[phill4paul]

God forbid one of them gets captured.

It will provide all the moral outrage needed to enter/continue any war.

[Confederate]

Ridiculous.

[loveableteddybear]

It will provide all the moral outrage needed to enter/continue any war.
Shit, you guys just figured out what this bullshit is all really about. Justifying endless wars.

[paulbot24]

God forbid one of them gets captured.

Indeed. Those guys will never know what hit them. Women understand women, that's why they hate each other.:D

[James Madison]

It will provide all the moral outrage needed to enter/continue any war.

Ding ding ding!

When all those caskets with dead women come back Boobus will be out for blood.

Reminds me of the South Park episode where the boys turn into cavemen at first sight of girls developing breasts.

[jkr]

DISGUSTING

[Anti Federalist]

Just another indication of a sick and dying society.

Call me whatever names you want, a society that puts young girls out on the front line to get ground into hamburger, to advance the cause of the banskters and the NWO, is sick.

[sailingaway]

It is to justify a universal draft, I am sure.

[Pericles]

US women have already been captured, and what happened to them has not been made public - no more needs to be said.

OTOH, it furthur degrades US military capability, which may be a bad or a good thing dependeing on circumstances.

[Anti Federalist]

OTOH, it furthur degrades US military capability, which may be a bad or a good thing depending on circumstances.

Or point of view, I suppose.

[jkob]

how long until they start the draft up again?

[phill4paul]

US women have already been captured, and what happened to them has not been made public - no more needs to be said.

OTOH, it furthur degrades US military capability, which may be a bad or a good thing dependeing on circumstances.

To be sure the U.S. military is doing its part in keeping its OWN house clean by sweeping under the rug the treatment of some women within its ranks.

[Anti Federalist]

To be sure the U.S. military is doing its part in keeping its OWN house clean by sweeping under the rug the treatment of some women within its ranks.

What is the rape and sexual assault rate again?

[phill4paul]

What is the rape and sexual assault rate again?

Varying reports but I think it stands at 1 in 3 according to the DOD. Which would put it roughly at 70,000 victims. Whether this number is correct or not could be endlessly disputed. However, had these women not been in the military then I think the number would be zero. And if a civilian had been raped or assaulted by a military member then chances are better that some form of justice would occur.

[QuickZ06]

Some of us want to stop the wars not need women for more.

[Danke]

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/06/29/us/female-pow-is-abused-kindling-debate.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

[kcchiefs6465]

US women have already been captured, and what happened to them has not been made public - no more needs to be said.

OTOH, it furthur degrades US military capability, which may be a bad or a good thing dependeing on circumstances.
Wait until one is captured and it is made public. And I'm not talking about edited, PG-13 news reports.

[thoughtomator]

Someone record the name of the first American soldier to give birth mid-combat for posterity.

[phill4paul]

Someone record the name of the first American soldier to give birth mid-combat for posterity.

While fighting off a hoard of terrorists and saving her squad! Made for (payed) TeeVEE I'm tellin' ya!

[Danke]

USS Acadia (AD-42) in 1990:

"This was the first war-time deployment of a mixed male-female crew on a U.S. Navy combat vessel. Just over one third of her crew were women, which caused some controversy when during the course of the mission 1 in 10 of the female crew either became pregnant or discovered they already were."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/jun/15/20040615-115647-8125r/

[pacodever]

Fact is most women just cannot meet the physical requirements for combat grunt work (marine, army) or special forces. In the navy, I deliberately pulled women and some men off fire hose teams and made them phone talkers. I knew there was no chance in hell that they would be able to carry their own weight with 50 lbs of gear, let alone carry a 200± lb buddy up a several flights of ladders if he went down. It endangers women and the men they serve next to.

Not to mention the completely different physical standards they are currently held to.

[SpreadOfLiberty]

I just don't want a draft to include women(or anybody for that matter).

[MelissaWV]

Fact is most women just cannot meet the physical requirements for combat grunt work (marine, army) or special forces. In the navy, I deliberately pulled women and some men off fire hose teams and made them phone talkers. I knew there was no chance in hell that they would be able to carry their own weight with 50 lbs of gear, let alone carry a 200± lb buddy up a several flights of ladders if he went down. It endangers women and the men they serve next to.

Not to mention the completely different physical standards they are currently held to.

This.

I'm all for "allowing" women in combat, personally, but hold them to the same standards. No excuses. No once-a-month time off for cramps or PMS or whatever. Too short to march? Too weak to lift? Too jiggly to handle recoil? Tough luck.

There will be some women that meet and exceed expectations/standards. There will be many that do not (just as there are, every year, many men who do not).

* * *

This will make a draft interesting if it ever happens. You will see all sorts of female-illnesses crop up to make people unfit for duty all of a sudden, and you will see a marked upswing in pregnancies.

[SpreadOfLiberty]

Has anybody checked the fitness tests for our military? Personally they seem kind of lame. You should be in prime physical shape in the military, with strength and endurance.

Anyways, they have it weighted based on age, but also a different set for females. However, the battlefield doesn't make such adjustments. I wonder if the combat fitness level for women will be raised?

[CaptainAmerica]

God forbid one of them gets captured. Panetta would probably hope for it to fuel the propaganda to go to more war

[Lucille]

On the bright side:

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2013/01/women-to-front-lines.html


Tell me again about how the People will never be able to resist the assembled might of the US military?
[...]
Between the reduced female capacity for fighting and the inevitable dissension and lack of unit cohesion that will result from putting women into front-line companies and commando units, I can only conclude that this is ultimately a positive development for long-term American freedom. Give it enough time and the military will go the way of the Fortune 500 companies, HR commissars will be assigned to each unit, and the combat rifle will be replaced with a lighter .22 caliber carbine that comes in fashionable teal, mauve, and eggshell.

Heh.

Related:

Losing the next war
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2012/02/losing-next-war.html


I don't care how much the USA spends on its military. It's all but guaranteed to lose its next major war:


The Army is ordering its hardened combat veterans to wear fake breasts and empathy bellies so they can better understand how pregnant soldiers feel during physical training. This week, 14 noncommissioned officers at Camp Zama took turns wearing the “pregnancy simulators” as they stretched, twisted and exercised during a three-day class that teaches them to serve as fitness instructors for pregnant soldiers and new mothers.

[P3ter_Griffin]

I remember a discussion we had on this in 4th or 5th grade. My thoughts are still the same, why they hell do women WANT to serve in combat roles? But its about damn time they are given the option.

[Anti Federalist]

In Case You Don't Subscribe to the Marine Corps Gazette

Posted by Laurence Vance on January 19, 2013 08:21 PM

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/130957.html

Then you missed the article, as I did, by Captain Katie Petronio. Here are two excerpts:


As a combat-experienced Marine officer, and a female, I am here to tell you that we are not all created equal, and attempting to place females in the infantry will not improve the Marine Corps as the Nation’s force-in-readiness or improve our national security.

I can say from firsthand experience in Iraq and Afghanistan, and not just emotion, that we haven’t even begun to analyze and comprehend the gender-specific medical issues and overall physical toll continuous combat operations will have on females.

I am confident that should the Marine Corps attempt to fully integrate women into the infantry, we as an institution are going to experience a colossal increase in crippling and career-ending medical conditions for females.

Now, if we could just encourage men to not join as well.

[Danke]

Women Draft:

http://news.yahoo.com/women-combat-register-draft-225900518.html

[Brett85]

I think that women should be allowed to serve in combat roles as long as they meet the physical requirements.

[alucard13mmfmj]

Form entire companies made up of females. Call sign Valkyrie.

[Danke]

I think that women should be allowed to serve in combat roles as long as they meet the physical requirements.

Which will lead to discrimination charges and the standards will be lower, as has already been the case in many fields.

[Brett85]

Which will lead to discrimination charges and the standards will be lower, as has already been the case in many fields.

Yeah, I certainly hope that doesn't happen. It wouldn't be good to have some type of quota system where the military is forced to add a certain number of women to combat operations.

[ClydeCoulter]

Think PTSD is bad now, let a few come home where the girl next to them gets her head blown off and how is they to cope? Perhaps there are some that it won't seem to bother, but I just can't imagine it. Maybe you just get numb at some point.

[Danke]

Think PTSD is bad now, let a few come home where the girl next to them gets her head blown off and how is they to cope? Perhaps there are some that it won't seem to bother, but I just can't imagine it. Maybe you just get numb at some point.

AF's post brought this up:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?402153-Panetta-opens-combat-roles-to-women&p=4833732&viewfull=1#post4833732

[Brett85]

This really isn't that big of a departure from the way things are now, because there are certain times now when women are involved in combat roles.

[Pauls' Revere]

Although I would rather have the selective service registration eliminated, since it's not it may as well be applied equally. You've come a long baby! In fact I always thought it was sexist that my student loans could/would be denied if I didn't register while a female could take out the same loan without registering. What a wonderful double standard.

Equal rights and all.

[QuickZ06]

Women Draft:

http://news.yahoo.com/women-combat-register-draft-225900518.html

From the article.


Once the combat exclusion policy is lifted, “My belief is that if we open up combat arms to women, even on a voluntary basis, if there is a draft, we should be able to force women into those positions,” says retired Col. Peter Mansoor, a professor of military history at the Ohio State University in Columbus and a former US Army brigade commander who served two tours in Iraq.

You hear that, if they want there women for more war they will just force you to serve. So who is going to stay home and actually take care of the kids if mommy and daddy are deployed?

[tod evans]

So who is going to stay home and actually take care of the kids if mommy and daddy are deployed?

Government of course.....

The stage has been set for years............Don't worry though they'll ease into it and the "Newz" will explain how it's all for the best and how the kids will benefit..

[puppetmaster]

I bdt they will show off those caskets.......

[alucard13mmfmj]

sorry little timmy and little nancy. your mom got blown up and your dad got shot by terrorists with weapons they procured from us 40 years ago! don't worry, we'll give you some SSRI's and anti-depressants to help with deal with your loss! you want to work for the DHS?

will be devastating for some kids to have both parents gone away or killed.

[Intoxiklown]

The feminists pushing this are forgetting basic biology. The main reason women are excluded from infantry is simply hygiene. Have you ever gone 90 days without a bath? The best you get is a "bird bath" with a baby wipe. Female biology simply doesn't allow for this. It's not sexist, it's plain common sense. Forget about humping 90lbs of battle rattle over 18 miles a day, our bodies are different, hence certain jobs have to be gender specific.

But by all means....let them go get the crotch rot because they want to show they're equal.

[asurfaholic]

Has anybody checked the fitness tests for our military? Personally they seem kind of lame. You should be in prime physical shape in the military, with strength and endurance.

Anyways, they have it weighted based on age, but also a different set for females. However, the battlefield doesn't make such adjustments. I wonder if the combat fitness level for women will be raised?

Have you seen the modern battlefield?

It goes like this
http://www.hangthebankers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Drone-operators.jpg

A fatass is more than capable of killing many people.. \ I know this topic is specifically about ground combat, but this was just what came to mind when I read your post..

[Plague-of-Locutus]

First Female F-14 Fighter Pilot Reacts to Pentagon Lifting Combat Ban (http://wreg.com/2013/01/23/first-female-f-14-fighter-pilot-reacts-to-pentagon-lifting-combat-ban/)


(Memphis) – Carey Lohrenz was one of the first female fighter pilots to fly F-14s in the U.S. Navy.

“So I was on the front and from that you have to be able to be fearless about things,” she said.
Lohrenz said women have been fearless in the air and on the ground for years.
“Like it or not, the reality of it is women have been on the ground and in combat they just haven’t been getting the on paper credit for it and haven’t been promoted,” she said.
Lohrenz said 250,000 women have served in Iraq and Afghanistan. More than 800 women were wounded and at least 130 have died.
But many of those servicewomen were serving under a temporary billet, which means while they were fighting on the ground they didn’t get the credit on paper.
“So you have women that are out there doing the job serving professionally, but when it comes time to be promoted into those leadership positions they’re out of the running for it because they don’t have the technical designation.”
Back in November, four servicewomen along with the American Civil Liberties Union sued the Pentagon over the combat exclusion policy.
Now that policy will be lifted opening front-line positions to women.
“I think its fantastic and I think it’s a long time coming,” she said. “We’ve set aside this whole pool of very capable candidates, but because they showed up as women we weren’t able to promote them to the leadership positions where we need them to be leading.”
Most of the 200,000 jobs that will open to woman are primarily in the army and marines. The military will have until May to draw up a plan for opening all units to women and until the end of 2015 to actually implement it.

From this perspective it kind of does suck to work hard at a career and be denied advancement because of artificial barriers even though you're already doing the required tasks.

[Southron]

Equal Opportunity Empire.

[erowe1]

The way I see it, if you call yourself a man, and you know they're sending women into combat, then your choices are either to sign up and go yourself, or demand that they bring the troops home.

[osan]

http://www.wtop.com/931/3181819/Panetta-opens-combat-roles-to-women

Well, all I can say is this: any woman so profoundly stupid as to want to go into combat should be allowed to. If captured and raped, while regrettable, she should have known the risks when she chose. I am afraid that I will have no spare pity in such cases, much as it might otherwise pain me to learn of such things. I would add that such women, if captured by fundamentalist Muslims will earn special contempt, death being the reward awaiting them after having been raped.

Is it not interesting how the envelope of war is being ever broadened, rather than narrowed? Interesting how the UN mandates for everything BUT this is made a big noise.

This is one of the last frontiers of warfare to be breached. Perhaps the inclusion of infants may remain... perhaps.


One by one the taboos fall. In principle I have no problem with that, but not all taboos are wrong. Mark my words that the day may well come when the age of consent will be lowered and before you know it, NAMBLA will have standing in this nation. This is the direction in which things are heading, so why not go all the way?

[jkob]

How about that 'War On Women'?

[osan]

From the article.



You hear that, if they want there women for more war they will just force you to serve. So who is going to stay home and actually take care of the kids if mommy and daddy are deployed?

I completely agree with him on that point. If you are going to be "equal", then let you be consistently so.

How about we cut the shit with the casual warring? How about we kick women out of the military completely? Is it not bad enough we have men volunteering for this idiocy? None of this is national defense in any direct sense. Perhaps we should have had a more circumspect approach to national development so that we would not have had to defend the founts of natural resources. Had we treated the Arabs with civility, equity, and honesty I daresay we would be in a far better state of relations. Our unholy alliance with Great Britain has been a key factor in our plunge as a nation. We should have let Germany destroy England in 1916. The world would be a very different place. Woulda, coulda, shoulda...

The truth facing us here is that the elites are in a do or die situation. Their strategy was an all-or-nothing deal, it appears. Sowing strife and chaos and destruction worldwide in order to break the spirit of men so that they submit to the saving hand of Uncle is very risky, the payoff being huge and the consequences of failure equally so. They are going for broke and I suspect it would not take the largest defeat to make the house fall. The question is where does one find the keystone?

[robert68]

If it degrades the capabilities of the US empire, good. My sympathies are with the aggressed upon.

[Danke]

First Female F-14 Fighter Pilot Reacts to Pentagon Lifting Combat Ban (http://wreg.com/2013/01/23/first-female-f-14-fighter-pilot-reacts-to-pentagon-lifting-combat-ban/)



From this perspective it kind of does suck to work hard at a career and be denied advancement because of artificial barriers even though you're already doing the required tasks.

Bad example, one of her fellow female F-14 "pilots" killed her backseater on their first cruise.

"Carey Dunai Lohrenz, who was one of the first two women trained to fly the F-14 Tomcat. In October 1994 her colleague, Lt. Kara Hultgreen, crashed and died while attempting to land on the carrier U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln. Lohrenz was removed from carrier aviation in May 1995, due to flawed flying techniques that her superiors described as "unsafe, undisciplined, and unpredictable." ...1995 CMR Special Report: Double Standards in Naval Aviation Training. The 20-page report, backed by 104 pages of training records and related documents, exposed a pattern of low scores and major errors in the F-14 training of both women that may have contributed to the tragic death of Kara Hultgreen."

[familydog]

Just another indication of a sick and dying society.

Call me whatever names you want, a society that puts young girls out on the front line to get ground into hamburger, to advance the cause of the banskters and the NWO, is sick.

I'm right there with you. Putting young boys out on the front line to get ground into hamburger is much more appropriate.

[Pericles]

Wait until one is captured and it is made public. And I'm not talking about edited, PG-13 news reports.

I just happen to know because I served with one of the doctors who treated her on her "return" to US forces. If I say any more, it will become obvious who she is.

For AF, the point of her article is the combat load, even for non infantry types routinely exceeds 50 pounds, and women are getting lower back injuries, and lower leg skeletal problems from the weight being carried. It shows up faster in the women, but long term years on, it eventually shows up in the guys as well. 20 years in combat arms units takes a physical toll.

[Pericles]

Have you seen the modern battlefield?

It goes like this
http://www.hangthebankers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Drone-operators.jpg

A fatass is more than capable of killing many people.. \ I know this topic is specifically about ground combat, but this was just what came to mind when I read your post..

Until it meets this:

http://www.dallascitytroop.org/index_files/trooper.jpg

You can sit n your fat ass and play video war when the opponent is thousands of miles away. When the opponent can visit you personally, the dynamics change.

[paulbot24]

I'm right there with you. Putting young boys out on the front line to get ground into hamburger is much more appropriate.

They see us a livestock. Nothing more. Trained obedience when we are young, placed in pens designed to separate and control, branded as their property (almost), our survival means nothing until it cuts into the profit margin, selectively bred for "superior" genetics, injected with an assortment of chemicals for various purposes, and herded around homogeneously as though all of humanity were one unit. Until of course it comes time for slaughter. They deposit the money from the slaughter/war in their own bank, perhaps sign a treaty or two over cigars and brandy, and use your money to start the whole process all over again with your children. The most disgusting part is the hypocrisy as usual. These are the same people that hide behind Institutes and Foundations promoting humanitarian, diversity, and children's charities. They shouldn't have to pay taxes for all their selfless work they do for the entire world! So why would they care about gender? "Just don't kill too many of the females since we have a target head count we like to keep maintained...." SICK SICK SICK

[familydog]

They see us a livestock. Nothing more. Trained obedience when we are young, placed in pens designed to separate and control, branded as their property (almost), our survival means nothing until it cuts into the profit margin, selectively bred for "superior" genetics, injected with an assortment of chemicals for various purposes, and herded around homogeneously as though all of humanity were one unit. Until of course it comes time for slaughter. They deposit the money from the slaughter/war in their own bank, perhaps sign a treaty or two over cigars and brandy, and use your money to start the whole process all over again with your children. The most disgusting part is the hypocrisy as usual. These are the same people that hide behind Institutes and Foundations promoting humanitarian, diversity, and children's charities. They shouldn't have to pay taxes for all their selfless work they do for the entire world! So why would they care about gender? "Just don't kill too many of the females since we have a target head count we like to keep maintained...." SICK SICK SICK

Well, gender bias is inherent in all aspects of society. Gender certainly does matter when raising children. Women tend to be more emotional than men. Men tend to be more aggressive than women. These tendencies are bred into us by gender biased child rearing.

I just don't understand the idea that it is more horrific for women to be on the front lines of war than men. Both are equally disgusting because both men and women are humans beings who deserve dignity and respect.

[erowe1]

These tendencies are bred into us by gender biased child rearing.

Do you really believe that?

[familydog]

The evidence is clear.

Until girls are boys are raised equally, we'll never know if there are actual differences between males and females. Physical differences withstanding.

[erowe1]

The evidence is clear.

Until girls are boys are raised equally, we'll never know if there are actual differences between males and females. Physical differences withstanding.

There are a lot of parents in the world. You don't think any of them have tried the experiment of raising boys and girls the same yet?

Do you have kids?

[osan]

Bad example, one of her fellow female F-14 "pilots" killed her backseater on their first cruise.

"Carey Dunai Lohrenz, who was one of the first two women trained to fly the F-14 Tomcat. In October 1994 her colleague, Lt. Kara Hultgreen, crashed and died while attempting to land on the carrier U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln. Lohrenz was removed from carrier aviation in May 1995, due to flawed flying techniques that her superiors described as "unsafe, undisciplined, and unpredictable." ...1995 CMR Special Report: Double Standards in Naval Aviation Training. The 20-page report, backed by 104 pages of training records and related documents, exposed a pattern of low scores and major errors in the F-14 training of both women that may have contributed to the tragic death of Kara Hultgreen."


The fruits of PC. There are some hard realities that PC refuses to acknowledge, one of them being that men and women are different. We think differently and perceive differently. These tendencies are not universal, but they do speak strongly to the mean on a pretty narrow Gaussian.

PC is not just dangerous, it is deadly so. I don't care if a woman is a pilot but I damned sure want to be certain she is trained and held to the same standard as men. This reminds me of the bullshit that went on in NYC with women firefighters. The standard was that you had to be able to carry a 150 pound person out of a building. Nary a single female could do it so instead of giving them the heave-ho' ( :) ) they lowered the standard to something like 100 pounds for the girls. WTF? That gets real people really dead, but the perpetrators never face accountability, much less the hangman's noose.

[familydog]

There are a lot of parents in the world. You don't think any of them have tried the experiment of raising boys and girls the same yet?

Do you have kids?

My statements are, of course, generalizations. I cannot speak for every single family on Earth. I do know of parents who try to raise their children with gender neutrality. These parents are in a significant minority at this point.

No, I do not have my own children.

[erowe1]

My statements are, of course, generalizations. I cannot speak for every single family on Earth. I do know of parents who try to raise their children with gender neutrality. These parents are in a significant minority at this point.

No, I do not have my own children.

I don't think many people who think that the behavioral differences of the sexes are just the result of child-rearing practices continue to think that after they've had kids.

[familydog]

I don't think many people who think that the behavioral differences of the sexes are just the result of child-rearing practices continue to think that after they've had kids.

I understand what you are saying, but what people "think" here is irrelevant.

[erowe1]

I understand what you are saying, but what people "think" here is irrelevant.

But all you're doing is saying what you think.

[familydog]

But all you're doing is saying what you think.

Not exactly. One needn't be omnipresent to understand culture. One also needn't be a parent to understand child psychology (though it can help).

Children's toys, clothing, media and marketing all create gender types. Even the way adults interact with and compliment children create gender types.

Discussing the alleged differences between men and women is a distraction. We simply don't know at this point. The focus should be on defeating war. That is an affront to the entire human race, regardless of gender.

[erowe1]

Not exactly. One needn't be omnipresent to understand culture. One also needn't be a parent to understand child psychology (though it can help).

Children's toys, clothing, media and marketing all create gender types. Even the way adults interact with and compliment children create gender types.

Discussing the alleged differences between men and women is a distraction. We simply don't know at this point. The focus should be on defeating war. That is an affront to the entire human race, regardless of gender.

But no, that's not it. The reason there are different toys for boys and girls, and the reason parents interact with them differently, is because they're different by nature. This is not something we simply don't know. We do know.

[oyarde]

How many of you have ever gone a month or more without a shower ? Or a couple weeks without taking a crap because your body was feeding off of itself and you had no time to consume enough to have excess, gone a day without a drink of water or just drank out of your own bleeding wound ? Sound like an environment for your little girl ?Armor guys do not even get off the vehicle to piss .Ever lifted a .155 Arty shell ?Ridiculous.

[familydog]

But no, that's not it. The reason there are different toys for boys and girls, and the reason parents interact with them differently, is because they're different by nature. This is not something we simply don't know. We do know.


Ah, "human nature". This term is used to justify anything and everything.

You don't give humanity enough credit. We are adaptable. "Human nature" is an excuse for complacency. Why bother fight against war or government corruption? These are just "human nature."

[erowe1]

Ah, "human nature". This term is used to justify anything and everything.

Like not sending women into combat? Yeah.

[familydog]

Like not sending women into combat? Yeah.

*shrug* As I've already stated, I don't want anyone sent into combat.

[Pericles]

How many of you have ever gone a month or more without a shower ? Or a couple weeks without taking a crap because your body was feeding off of itself and you had no time to consume enough to have excess, gone a day without a drink of water or just drank out of your own bleeding wound ? Sound like an environment for your little girl ?Armor guys do not even get off the vehicle to piss .Ever lifted a .155 Arty shell ?Ridiculous.

Never get off the tank. Not ever.

[heavenlyboy34]

The evidence is clear.

Until girls are boys are raised equally, we'll never know if there are actual differences between males and females. Physical differences withstanding.
We do know David Rohmer. "She" later found out about it and killed herself. :( Just FWIW.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw24j0Litlcdescription:
David Reimer (birth name Bruce) was born an identical twin in Winnipeg, Manitoba. At 6 months of age both boys were mistakenly diagnosed with phimosis, a natural condition of the infant penis. The so-called doctor Jean-Marie Huot botched the first circumcision completely destroying Bruce's penis. Twin Brian's circumcision was canceled; he made a full recovery from his "condition" of phimosis, without further treatment.

Shortly after the botched circumcision Bruce's mother Janet saw a television interview with John Money, a physician from John Hopkins Hospital who worked with cases of gender identity, transsexuality and intersex conditions. Janet wondered if perhaps she had found an answer to the horrific situation her baby was in, could Bruce be raised as a girl?

John Money thought he saw an opportunity to prove gender is learned behavior, and Bruce was an ideal subject with his twin brother Brian as a scientific control. Bruce was reassigned as Brenda. Money reported several times that the experiment was a success, and Brenda had adjusted well and liked to help her mother with traditionally female tasks around the house. Money built much of his career and theories of gender on the "successful" outcome of this case. Reality was far from the rosy domestic picture Money was reporting, Brenda never adjusted.

As a young teenager, refusing to take the prescribed female hormones and facing vaginoplasty surgery, Brenda rebelled to the point that her father broke down and confessed to her the botched circumcision which had led to the forced feminization. Brenda immediately assumed a male identity and took the name David.

When David's story came to national attention in 1997 John Money's reputation was over. Jean Marie Hout however, the doctor who destroyed David's infant penis was rarely mentioned. In fact many of the mainstream articles reporting David's story even failed to report that David's penis had been destroyed in a botched circumcision. Some only said "the baby lost his penis in an accident" thereby shifting blame from the circumcision "doctor" to the baby! Almost every report of David's story focused on miss-assigned gender and intersex conditions, even though David was neither. Our culture cannot face the truth, that David's natural condition had been misdiagnosed, his penis needlessly destroyed, and that circumcision was to blame.

In 2004 David took his own life. This report show how even after his death the blame remains firmly on John Money and mistreatment of intersex conditions, while the real criminal, the circumciser Jean-Marie Huot gets away without notice, even six years after his death.

[MelissaWV]

How many of you have ever gone a month or more without a shower ? Or a couple weeks without taking a crap because your body was feeding off of itself and you had no time to consume enough to have excess, gone a day without a drink of water or just drank out of your own bleeding wound ? Sound like an environment for your little girl ?Armor guys do not even get off the vehicle to piss .Ever lifted a .155 Arty shell ?Ridiculous.

I don't mean to drive this into tangent territory, but two things:

1. That does not sound like an environment for your "little boy," either, but there are a lot of things you don't wish on your child that they may be trying at the age they can join the military.

2. Assuming what women have and have not endured as individuals, and using it to justify how ridiculously unprepared they are for combat, is silly at best.

[osan]

It will provide all the moral outrage needed to enter/continue any war.

Just for a while. People will normalize to even this and existence will go on. Note I did not use "life". This effect would, IMO, be naught but a temporary fringe benefit of much broader effect, which is to break down the last vestiges of sensitivity of humanity to itself. When those barriers are sufficiently neutralized then literally ANY outrage by one set of humans against another will be met with a ho-hum reaction by those not immediately effected by whatever events may be in play. Once that threshold is crossed, the human race will have become irretrievably lost to the whim of the tyrant. We are not there just yet, but we are running quickly now. I may be wrong, but it seems to my eyes that the rate at which people inure to subsequent rubbing steps is rising very notably.

The broader strategic goal as I see it is to bring people BEYOND moral outrage and into a condition of such death-like apathy that there shall be no act sufficiently and outlandishly evil to earn a material response from the cattle. This SHOULD be the goal of any tyrant whose sights are set broadly enough to encompass the entire planet. Welcome to the 21st century my friends.

I believe that the elites are treading a very fine line at this time in history. They are on the brink of achieving their goals and are simultaneously at their most vulnerable. I believe they are banking greatly on the maintenance and ultimate efficacy of the current levels of apathy and fear to see them to the threshold of no return. If ever the time existed to actively resist, it is now. There is still enough moral sense in the average man to get his unwanted attention on certain fronts. The problem is awakening it to action and then channeling it properly, and it is monumental.

[Uriel999]

Guys I talked to a few Marines about it today. Apparently this ruling is actually misleading. Women can essentially now serve in the S2. Lol! They are still POGs. Your not going to see 0311 or even better an 0331 from this.

[Pericles]

Some of the more astute observers of progressives brought this to my attention - it is part of a cultural shift in the Army. Currently, generals who command units come from the combat arms - and putting women there is to put a more "progressive" leadership into the military over time. If units get screwed up and people killed - those dead kids won't be progressives' kids except for the occasional career minded woman.

Just like in education, where over time, the administrators of schools have shifted from male to female, the same will happen to the military on the pattern of Claudia Kennedy. You can be damn sure that progressive leaders will do exactly what their political masters say, Constitution be damned.

[liveandletlive]

who cares? we do most of our killing with drones anyway.

and i dont think women will be qualifying as navy seals any time soon.

[liveandletlive]

*shrug* As I've already stated, I don't want anyone sent into combat.

we'll always have Americans in combat, every decade...for the rest of the existence of the USA.

[Philhelm]

How many of you have ever gone a month or more without a shower ? Or a couple weeks without taking a crap because your body was feeding off of itself and you had no time to consume enough to have excess, gone a day without a drink of water or just drank out of your own bleeding wound ? Sound like an environment for your little girl ?Armor guys do not even get off the vehicle to piss .Ever lifted a .155 Arty shell ?Ridiculous.

...Did you ever drink out of your own bleeding wound?

[oyarde]

Never get off the tank. Not ever.

Absofuckinglutely, there are reasons for that.It is the "safe " place . Every man is needed.

[oyarde]

...Did you ever drink out of your own bleeding wound?

Yes.

[oyarde]

we'll always have Americans in combat, every decade...for the rest of the existence of the USA. Looks that way to me ....

[Philhelm]

Yes.

That's hardcore. I'm choosing you for my dodgeball team.

[heavenlyboy34]

I don't mean to drive this into tangent territory, but two things:

1. That does not sound like an environment for your "little boy," either, but there are a lot of things you don't wish on your child that they may be trying at the age they can join the military.

2. Assuming what women have and have not endured as individuals, and using it to justify how ridiculously unprepared they are for combat, is silly at best.
I'm going to go a bit further with your tangent. The precise reason 18th century Americans specified "militia" and "navy" in the various State Papers was because they knew men would be drafted and organized into standing armies to terrify people foreign and domestic. Instead of discussing how to better "integrate" the existing MIC's cannon fodder, we should be steering the discussion toward a rational, sensible approach to defense and foreign policy. /end ramble

[heavenlyboy34]

Yes.
Bah. You won't get much replenishment from that. Drink urine.

[oyarde]

I don't mean to drive this into tangent territory, but two things:

1. That does not sound like an environment for your "little boy," either, but there are a lot of things you don't wish on your child that they may be trying at the age they can join the military.

2. Assuming what women have and have not endured as individuals, and using it to justify how ridiculously unprepared they are for combat, is silly at best.

My only points , are these; 1) Standards will be lowered , eventually to include those that are determined to be desired . This lowers capability. I know this from a personal level , top female collegate Athletes could not perform many of these somewhat routine tasks .2) Next time a draft is instituted , all are equal, the precedent on that , is done now. I do not support these foreign interventions or wars. That said , there are no legitimate reasons for the combat troops to be weakened as a whole to serve the interest of few and punish countless others to come.It is not equal opportunity employment , too fat, too slow , too weak , not for you , for a reason. I do not , for any reason , discount the capabilities of females . Silly to think that American females are unprepared to endure what ladies in third world countries do ? no , not silly at all.If anyone thinks I would let one of my Grand Daughters endure what I have if I could prevent it ? That is silly .I will , though have them prepared as best I can , to defend my own dirt when I am gone.

[oyarde]

That's hardcore. I'm choosing you for my dodgeball team.

I am too old to dodge the ball , but I can still catch it and throw it back harder and hit what I wish with it :)

[oyarde]

Bah. You won't get much replenishment from that. Drink urine.

From experience, I will tell you , if you do not drink, you do not pee. I usually carried two , never drank from them , emergency purpose only , and not for me , tasted like shit anyway, somebody else would need it worse, was my thought.

[robert68]

Newt: Why Women Shouldn't Be In Combat - 1995
(infections, piglets, and giraffes)

http://youtu.be/h4TGR5j6v9w

[fr33]

The hired assassins deserve whatever injuries they get. What they don't deserve is my money that pays for this crap.


On the topic of women in combat.... Surely professional sports and the olympics would have been the first targets of integration if not for the absolute batshit crazy established concept of government and war. Only an insane feminist would start with combat. She might have started with sprinting. But methinks she's not really about equality and is only about staged equality and govt sanctions for her personal preference.

[oyarde]

I'm going to go a bit further with your tangent. The precise reason 18th century Americans specified "militia" and "navy" in the various State Papers was because they knew men would be drafted and organized into standing armies to terrify people foreign and domestic. Instead of discussing how to better "integrate" the existing MIC's cannon fodder, we should be steering the discussion toward a rational, sensible approach to defense and foreign policy. /end ramble Well . then. that did not take long , the Whiskey Rebellion , taxing the poor farmer and letting everyone else slide while they invade and kill .... if they had done that to me when I was young , I would have exterminated them in the middle of the night until they surrendered and left , when I was middle aged, left , moved further West to escape the tyranny.When I was old, I would have laughed at the ignorance, drank my whiskey , shot a few at oppurtune times at long distance....

[amy31416]

Thank God. I've always wanted to kill legally.

Yay.

[Danke]

Thank God. I've always wanted to kill legally.

Yay.

I'll say it again, there are always exceptions. Or FON.

[amy31416]

I'll say it again, there are always exceptions. Or FON.

Found Our Nukes?
Felt Our Nads?
Fried Our Nose?
Freaked Out Nunchucks?

[Danke]

Found Our Nukes?
Felt Our Nads?
Fried Our Nose?
Freaked Out Nunchucks?

more proof.

[osan]

The hired assassins deserve whatever injuries they get. What they don't deserve is my money that pays for this crap.


On the topic of women in combat.... Surely professional sports and the olympics would have been the first targets of integration if not for the absolute batshit crazy established concept of government and war. Only an insane feminist would start with combat. She might have started with sprinting. But methinks she's not really about equality and is only about staged equality and govt sanctions for her personal preference.

But that is the precise approach. Note I did not call it "strategy" because one cannot identify that much rational thought as having gone into things.

Identify that which is most singularly male: warfare. Now attack. You watch and see if before Bammy leaves office you have women on subs.

To conquer using this method EVERY element of normalized life must be redefined. This completely hoses people because their standards of judgment are replaced with that which is foreign and intuitively grating. Add to that the stick of extreme marginalization of anyone not toeing the new line of orthodoxy and you have a very powerful mechanism for sapping the life out of people.

[Pericles]

But that is the precise approach. Note I did not call it "strategy" because one cannot identify that much rational thought as having gone into things.

Identify that which is most singularly male: warfare. Now attack. You watch and see if before Bammy leaves office you have women on subs.

To conquer using this method EVERY element of normalized life must be redefined. This completely hoses people because their standards of judgment are replaced with that which is foreign and intuitively grating. Add to that the stick of extreme marginalization of anyone not toeing the new line of orthodoxy and you have a very powerful mechanism for sapping the life out of people.

That "global force for good" thing.