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sailingaway
01-23-2013, 08:53 AM
FRANKFORT ¡ª Many of Kentucky's Tea Party leaders are plotting a strategy to defeat U.S. Sen. Mitch McConnell in the 2014 Republican primary, a spokesman for a group calling itself the United Kentucky Tea Party said Tuesday.

Tea Party groups in the state are so dissatisfied with McConnell that "we are working on a battle plan with the ultimate goal to retire him next year," said John T. Kemper III of Lexington, a spokesman for the group.

Kemper's comment came a day after the group, which describes itself as a roundtable of leaders from more than a dozen Tea Party groups in Kentucky, issued a news release warning McConnell that "we will not allow our message or movement to be co-opted for political purposes."

Kemper, a developer who lost a bid for state auditor in 2011 and a bid for Congress in 2010, would not identify any potential opponent for McConnell, the Republican Senate leader, but acknowledged that he is "probably on a short list of folks."

Meanwhile, an out-of-state Super PAC expressed interest in helping "the right candidate" defeat McConnell. Last year, Liberty For All spent almost $700,000 to help elect Republican Thomas Massie to Northern Kentucky's 4th Congressional District seat.

Preston Bates, executive director of Liberty For All, said in an email Tuesday that McConnell is "anything but a tea partier" and is "that special politician who could unite libertarians, independents, anti-war Democrats, everyone" against him.

"Should the right candidate emerge ¡ª be they Republican, Democrat, or Independent ¡ª Liberty For All will remain committed to electing those dedicated to more civil liberties, more economic freedom, and freeing America from corporate influence," Bates said.

Liberty for All is primarily funded by John Ramsey, a college student from Nacogdoches, Texas, who is armed with an inherited fortune.

McConnell, who has represented Kentucky since 1985, is seeking re-election next year. So far, no one has announced to challenge him. He already has a $7 million campaign war chest and the endorsement of U.S. Sen. Rand Paul of Bowling Green, a Tea Party darling.

In a news release sent by email late Monday, the United Kentucky Tea Party said McConnell and state Republican leaders are being "intellectually dishonest" by calling anyone associated with McConnell's campaign a Tea Party leader.

"The Tea Parties in Kentucky are led by local grassroots individuals, not by any national organization," the statement said. "Any representation otherwise by the Republican Party leadership of Kentucky or Senator McConnell and his surrogates is inconsistent with the truth and will be vigorously and publicly disputed every step of the way."

Kemper said the group was referring to McConnell's campaign manager, Jesse Benton.

Benton led the 2010 general election campaign of Paul, who rode the Tea Party wave to defeat Attorney General Jack Conway in the general election and the McConnell-backed candidacy of then-Secretary of State Trey Grayson in the Republican primary election.

Benton also managed the 2012 presidential bid for Paul's father, former U.S. Rep. Ron Paul of Texas. Benton is married to one of Ron Paul's granddaughters.

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/01/22/4566713/several-kentucky-tea-party-groups.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy

more at link: http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/01/22/4566713/several-kentucky-tea-party-groups.html#storylink=cpy

JoshLowry
01-23-2013, 09:24 AM
:cool:

angelatc
01-23-2013, 09:38 AM
I'd rather see them go after Graham.

Bastiat's The Law
01-23-2013, 12:51 PM
McConnell has a 20 million dollar war chest. Waste of time. Be smarter than this Liberty For All.

sailingaway
01-23-2013, 12:59 PM
McConnell deserves opposition or we have no credibility.

I suspect if Davis is in it, they will also go after Lindsay, but how is he worse than McConnell?

Also, they said 'the right person', who might not step up.

FSP-Rebel
01-23-2013, 01:02 PM
McConnell has a 20 million dollar war chest. Waste of time. Be smarter than this Liberty For All.
I presume they're looking for a big fish to fry to boost their status but I agree that Graham should be the target.

Uriah
01-23-2013, 01:24 PM
McConnell has a 20 million dollar war chest. Waste of time. Be smarter than this Liberty For All.

They tout themselves as the PAC that wins elections. If they support a candidate against McConnell it's because McConnell can lose.

TheTyke
01-23-2013, 03:34 PM
This is getting big. What I find most encouraging is that over a dozen Tea Parties in Kentucky refuse to be co-opted. Even though they face the most formidable opponent, they are standing strong for their beliefs. This should be encouraged. On top of it, the issues we disagree with McConnell on WILL be publicized. His deeds will NOT go unchallenged.

Don't get angry with Rand or liberty candidates if they don't jump on this very challenging endeavors - we need them positioned for even bigger battles. This tendency is the biggest drawback to taking on McConnell... It's simply not worth it if it undermines our heavy hitters.

Know that if a good candidate emerges, a large force of Tea Party volunteers will be backing them up on the ground. This is roughly the same coalition that took Phil Moffett within 10% of beating the Republican Senate President in the primary for governor, despite having 1/10th of his funds. With any national support at all, we might've pulled it off.

McConnell will be a bigger hill to climb, but let's see how the situation unfolds. Put your money where it'll have most effect - state house races are less expensive and often overlooked... other senate races (like Graham,) or this one if we get line up a good situation.

SpreadOfLiberty
01-23-2013, 03:43 PM
They need to target Chambliss too if Broun runs.

supermario21
01-23-2013, 03:56 PM
McConnell will be the one establishment Senator in 2016 that endorses Rand. Chambliss and Graham are better targets, with guys in the state that we can already trust and not have to dig up somewhere, they just need convincing.

sailingaway
01-23-2013, 03:57 PM
McConnell has screwed the country for decades. Who is worse?

Bastiat's The Law
01-23-2013, 04:01 PM
I presume they're looking for a big fish to fry to boost their status but I agree that Graham should be the target.
Graham is much weaker and has less money. Plus there's good candidates from SC that could step up.

sailingaway
01-23-2013, 04:02 PM
It isn't either or. Until Rand endorsed McConnell I fully expected we would be going full bore opposing both Graham and McConnell, since they are the two worst.

itshappening
01-23-2013, 04:03 PM
Waste of time trying to take out the Senate Republican leader.

McConnell has 8 million dollars and plenty of state wide recogition and goodwill in the state.

If they find anyone they will have a huge uphill battle and ultimately likely fail.

There are much better opportunities, we should be focused on WV and finding a good conservative there because it's an open seat and very winnable.

sailingaway
01-23-2013, 04:04 PM
People who want to work on it can, and those who don't don't have to.

Bastiat's The Law
01-23-2013, 04:06 PM
This is getting big. What I find most encouraging is that over a dozen Tea Parties in Kentucky refuse to be co-opted. Even though they face the most formidable opponent, they are standing strong for their beliefs. This should be encouraged. On top of it, the issues we disagree with McConnell on WILL be publicized. His deeds will NOT go unchallenged.

Don't get angry with Rand or liberty candidates if they don't jump on this very challenging endeavors - we need them positioned for even bigger battles. This tendency is the biggest drawback to taking on McConnell... It's simply not worth it if it undermines our heavy hitters.

Know that if a good candidate emerges, a large force of Tea Party volunteers will be backing them up on the ground. This is roughly the same coalition that took Phil Moffett within 10% of beating the Republican Senate President in the primary for governor, despite having 1/10th of his funds. With any national support at all, we might've pulled it off.

McConnell will be a bigger hill to climb, but let's see how the situation unfolds. Put your money where it'll have most effect - state house races are less expensive and often overlooked... other senate races (like Graham,) or this one if we get line up a good situation.
I agree with a push towards targeting House seats over Senate seats. Senate seats take at least 5 million dollars or more. To win a Senate seat with a liberty candidate, we'd need an outstanding candidate in the first place, and so far Kentucky doesn't seem to have anyone that could foreseeably step in to challenge McConnell. We'd all have to be pulling in the same direction to win a Senate seat and I think only Graham could galvanize everyone of us against him at this point.

itshappening
01-23-2013, 04:08 PM
People who want to work on it can, and those who don't don't have to.

it's a complete distraction though when you get excited and post dozens of threads on no hope causes, raising people's hopes and diverting precious resources.

McConnell is not going down despite what the media might want

sailingaway
01-23-2013, 04:10 PM
you act as if other people's resources were yours to direct.

Everyone should obviously decide how to use their own time and resources, but I thought one of our points here is not to get in the way of others taking the actions they want to see move forward just because we may not always agree on priorities.

itshappening
01-23-2013, 04:13 PM
you act as if other people's resources were yours to direct.

Everyone should obviously decide how to use their own time and resources, but I thought one of our points here is not to get in the way of others taking the actions they want to see move forward just because we may not always agree on priorities.

I won't be too happy if Preston Bates and Liberty for All spend millions of dollars in Kentucky to try and take down the Republican leader and lose badly because they have some unknown candidate who is not up to the job and is unlikely to catch fire.

sailingaway
01-23-2013, 04:19 PM
I think they were waiting to see if the right candidate came forward.

Perhaps they are trying to hint the support would be there if the right candidate did.

Kotin
01-23-2013, 04:26 PM
I think Jesse Benton is going to have something to say about that.. :rolleyes:

Deborah K
01-23-2013, 04:50 PM
Senate seats take at least 5 million dollars or more.

This is a sickening reality. Our elections aren't won - they're bought. So let's just accept that a creeper like McConnell will stay in office screwing us, irreparably, because nothing can be done about the fact that our elections are bought and paid for - and the money goes to.......the main stream media - the brainwashers.....yep....we're screwed until there's REAL campaign finance change.

Carry on...

sailingaway
01-23-2013, 05:04 PM
Rands took about $3 million, I believe, plus grass roots. Once he got past the nomination, of course, he had other support.

THIS one will take more because McConnell has more to spend.

Koz
01-23-2013, 05:16 PM
Did Rand really endorse McConnell?

Bastiat's The Law
01-23-2013, 05:17 PM
It isn't either or. Until Rand endorsed McConnell I fully expected we would be going full bore opposing both Graham and McConnell, since they are the two worst.
When you have finite resources, yes it is an either or decision. I'm not entirely convinced we have the resources to mount credible challenges to multiple Senate seats simultaneously. To defeat someone as entrenched as McConnell you need to secure the three M's: Man, Money, Message

At this juncture we have none of those requirements fulfilled.

TheTyke
01-23-2013, 05:21 PM
Well, keep in mind Rand won by 24% with even funding. We don't have to match them dollar for dollar to take them down.

McConnell hired Jesse Benton precisely because he was worried about a challenge. He believes in it more than some of you do. Yes, we should be realistic, and some of us may be called to work in different races, but don't be so quick to bow down to Jesse/McConnell and dismiss the race out of hand. Doing that is just like fueling the "Ron Paul can't win" line in the media. We have achieved some amazing and improbable things here in Kentucky before.

Bastiat's The Law
01-23-2013, 05:25 PM
Well, keep in mind Rand won by 24% with even funding. We don't have to match them dollar for dollar to take them down.

McConnell hired Jesse Benton precisely because he was worried about a challenge. He believes in it more than some of you do. Yes, we should be realistic, and some of us may be called to work in different races, but don't be so quick to bow down to Jesse/McConnell and dismiss the race out of hand. Doing that is just like fueling the "Ron Paul can't win" line in the media. We have achieved some amazing and improbable things here in Kentucky before.
Rand was a terrific candidate and had the perfect message. See my post above. You need the planets to align and have all those things in place to have a shot. You'd also need 10 million dollars because this potential challenger would be a political unknown.

TheTyke
01-23-2013, 05:34 PM
Rand was a terrific candidate and had the perfect message. See my post above. You need the planets to align and have all those things in place to have a shot. You'd also need 10 million dollars because this potential challenger would be a political unknown.

Moffett was an unknown and with 1/10th of the funds, came within 10% of beating the Republican State Senate President in the primary for governor. He was not a good speaker, and did this with no help from the national movement because of certain folks relentlessly making discouraging posts. The power of the Tea Parties in Kentucky even took Rand by surprise... everyone expected it to be a blowout, not a 10% difference. So again, realism is fine, but discouragement is not helpful.

Bastiat's The Law
01-23-2013, 05:40 PM
People who want to work on it can, and those who don't don't have to.
Your propensity for sending people off on fools' errands stretches out our resources. I know you're trying to play the role of diplomatic schoolmarm here, but it's severely damaging to the liberty movement.

We had to reign in this mentality during the campaign too. We accomplish nothing when everyone is scattered to the wind.

Deborah K
01-23-2013, 05:46 PM
Your propensity for sending people off on fools' errands stretches out our resources. I know you're trying to play the role of diplomatic schoolmarm here, but it's severely damaging to the liberty movement.

We had to reign in this mentality during the campaign too. We accomplish nothing when everyone is scattered to the wind.

Wow, this is dispicable on so many levels. Sailingaway isn't damaging the liberty movement, what a ridiculous assumption. You not only insult her, but everyone else because you assume we need YOU to keep us on the straight and narrow since we can't think for ourselves. We're not the borg. Wow. How about you "reign in" your self-righteous attitude.

Jeremy
01-23-2013, 05:51 PM
Waste of money and likely not going to achieve anything. Lindsey Graham should be the target.

Bastiat's The Law
01-23-2013, 05:51 PM
Moffett was an unknown and with 1/10th of the funds, came within 10% of beating the Republican State Senate President in the primary for governor. He was not a good speaker, and did this with no help from the national movement because of certain folks relentlessly making discouraging posts. The power of the Tea Parties in Kentucky even took Rand by surprise... everyone expected it to be a blowout, not a 10% difference. So again, realism is fine, but discouragement is not helpful.
Close only counts in horseshoes. McConnell won't be touched. You should take the long-term view of this, since the outlook is very hopeful. This could very well be McConnell's last term before he retires. He's old and his time is coming to a close. By the time McConnell is done, Massie will have the household name recognition to ease into his Senate seat without much of a fight at all. He's just keeping it warm for Thomas.

Jeremy
01-23-2013, 05:51 PM
This is a sickening reality. Our elections aren't won - they're bought. So let's just accept that a creeper like McConnell will stay in office screwing us, irreparably, because nothing can be done about the fact that our elections are bought and paid for - and the money goes to.......the main stream media - the brainwashers.....yep....we're screwed until there's REAL campaign finance change.

Carry on...

You could easily say that all of our candidates won thanks to money. Nothing new...

Deborah K
01-23-2013, 05:57 PM
You could easily say that all of our candidates won thanks to money. Nothing new...

Yes, you could say that. But I, for one, would much prefer an electoral process that provided a level playing field. Trying to get the right people in office is never going to happen at a fast enough pace to make any difference as long as money controls the process. The money power will always win out. Not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but I'm just not 'feelin it' these days.

Bastiat's The Law
01-23-2013, 06:10 PM
Wow, this is dispicable on so many levels. Sailingaway isn't damaging the liberty movement, what a ridiculous assumption. You not only insult her, but everyone else because you assume we need YOU to keep us on the straight and narrow since we can't think for ourselves. We're not the borg. Wow. How about you "reign in" your self-righteous attitude.
Do you think the word "Republican" behind Dr. Paul here was an accident? What about the phrase "We Are The Future"? This was in direct response to supporters wanting to give up and leave the party. Keeping the liberty movement focused on what actually works has always been the agenda from Ron Paul on down. I'm sorry you just got the memo.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/b3gK-goWD20/0.jpg

Bastiat's The Law
01-23-2013, 06:16 PM
You could easily say that all of our candidates won thanks to money. Nothing new...
It takes money to reach the non-political junkies.

Then it takes more money to educate them on matters the government schools either overlooked or brainwashed them into believing.

Deborah K
01-23-2013, 06:20 PM
Do you think the word "Republican" behind Dr. Paul here was an accident? What about the phrase "We Are The Future"? This was in direct response to supporters wanting to give up and leave the party. Keeping the liberty movement focused on what actually works has always been the agenda from Ron Paul on down. I'm sorry you just got the memo.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/b3gK-goWD20/0.jpg

Memo to you! It's your approach, Genius! Get it? And besides, you're never going to get liberty-minded people all on the same page of political action, nor should you want to. Restoring freedom in this country requires a multi-pronged approach (including but not limited to infiltrating BOTH parties), and either you're going to have to trust the people to move in the right direction - or NOT! But you don't get to insult other members while sitting on your high horse trying to corral everyone into thinking and acting the way you deem we should. Just knock it off.

sailingaway
01-23-2013, 06:29 PM
When you have finite resources, yes it is an either or decision. I'm not entirely convinced we have the resources to mount credible challenges to multiple Senate seats simultaneously. To defeat someone as entrenched as McConnell you need to secure the three M's: Man, Money, Message

At this juncture we have none of those requirements fulfilled.

but the point is you spend your resources others spend theirs. You don't want people cutting down efforts you find worthy of spending your money on, and might want to be considerate of other people's efforts as well,

It isn't like there is a pot of money and a democratic control of where it goes. Each spend their own money.

Bastiat's The Law
01-23-2013, 06:34 PM
Memo to you! It's your approach, Genius! Get it? And besides, you're never going to get liberty-minded people all on the same page of political action, nor should you want to. Restoring freedom in this country requires a multi-pronged approach (including but not limited to infiltrating BOTH parties), and either you're going to have to trust the people to move in the right direction - or NOT! But you don't get to insult other members while sitting on your high horse trying to corral everyone into thinking and acting the way you deem we should. Just knock it off.
Infiltrating the democratic party? Seriously?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07fTsF5BiSM

sailingaway
01-23-2013, 06:36 PM
Yes, seriously. Remember the Blue Republicans? If Robin K ran as a D I'd back him. I hope he'd run Gop because we have more organization there, but there are states where R makes no sense. Ron has said our ideas have to be in all parties, just as the bad ideas are, and I agree with him.

Deborah K
01-23-2013, 06:40 PM
Infiltrating the democratic party? Seriously?



Ron is friends with Dennis Kucinich as I'm certain you know. That video is a small sampling of democratic voters. Any Democrat could go around a Republican event and scrounge up just as many boneheads. If we're ever going to get anywhere, we have to move beyond the right-left paradigm - it's how they are able to distract us - by dividing us. We get liberty-minded individuals into office as Dems, as well as Republicans, then we may actually change the hearts and minds of a nation.

Aratus
01-23-2013, 06:43 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ivash
01-23-2013, 08:24 PM
This is a sickening reality. Our elections aren't won - they're bought. So let's just accept that a creeper like McConnell will stay in office screwing us, irreparably, because nothing can be done about the fact that our elections are bought and paid for - and the money goes to.......the main stream media - the brainwashers.....yep....we're screwed until there's REAL campaign finance change.

Carry on...

That's going a little too far. In most cases both party's main candidates have enough money to compete for the Senate, so it isn't 'bought' when it comes down to the general. The primary can be bought though, and most people don't have the kind of money needed to run.

sailingaway
01-23-2013, 08:26 PM
but usually both funded candidates are funded because they will get goodies at taxpayer expense for different special interests, so it is still bought, just on both sides.

TCE
01-23-2013, 09:43 PM
The point is, there are races that are winnable and races that aren't. Every cycle, good money is thrown at candidate's who couldn't win their race under any circumstances. John Dennis, Peter Schiff, Art Robinson, and Kurt Bills come to mind. This Kentucky Senate Race looks like a loser. McConnell has the entire establishment behind him. He will have over $10 million if he wants it, probably more. He can call for help at any moment. He is also known as one of the greatest politicos in the history of the state. There are winnable races out there where money would matter more.

Everyone can do what they want with their own money, but I caution that this may not be the best use of that money.

Keith and stuff
01-23-2013, 09:47 PM
McConnell has screwed the country for decades. Who is worse?
Every single Democratic US Senator.

Keith and stuff
01-23-2013, 09:49 PM
Ron is friends with Dennis Kucinich as I'm certain you know. That video is a small sampling of democratic voters. Any Democrat could go around a Republican event and scrounge up just as many boneheads. If we're ever going to get anywhere, we have to move beyond the right-left paradigm - it's how they are able to distract us - by dividing us. We get liberty-minded individuals into office as Dems, as well as Republicans, then we may actually change the hearts and minds of a nation.
I've love to see people start doing that somewhere besides New Hampshire. Are people outside of NH just lazy? Do they not know how to organize? What's the problem?

itshappening
01-23-2013, 09:57 PM
I've love to see people start doing that somewhere besides New Hampshire. Are people outside of NH just lazy? Do they not know how to organize? What's the problem?

The Democrat Party is a waste of time.

Anyone who is slightly to the right is now beaten down hard by progressives and spendaholics.

The Blue Dogs are practically extinct.

It is an Obama, uber liberal party now.

The good news is that because they're overrun with progressives they won't get the House for a long time.

Keith and stuff
01-23-2013, 10:05 PM
The Democrat Party is a waste of time.

Anyone who is slightly to the right is now beaten down hard by progressives and spendaholics.

The Blue Dogs are practically extinct.

It is an Obama, uber liberal party now.

The good news is that because they're overrun with progressives they won't get the House for a long time.
Then why is the strategy of running liberty Democrats starting to work in NH? Why are Democrats getting elected in town after town in local elections and also as state reps? In fact, 6 of the stat rep. races won by FSPers in NH were FSPers running as Democrats. Perhaps where you live Democrats are different. Where I live, even the Democrats work hard to prevent a state income or state sales tax.

I think you are WAY too over generalizing and collectivizing. I'm not sure why you are doing it but it's distasteful at best.

Deborah K
01-23-2013, 10:09 PM
The Democrat Party is a waste of time.

Anyone who is slightly to the right is now beaten down hard by progressives and spendaholics.

The Blue Dogs are practically extinct.

It is an Obama, uber liberal party now.

The good news is that because they're overrun with progressives they won't get the House for a long time.

Left-right paradigm. This is divisive and distracting and nothing will ever change as long as parties are pitted against each other. Infiltration of both parties could change the entire game. Infiltration.

Keith and stuff
01-23-2013, 11:55 PM
Left-right paradigm. This is divisive and distracting and nothing will ever change as long as parties are pitted against each other. Infiltration of both parties could change the entire game. Infiltration.
I like a lot of what you said but using that word is also divisive and distracting. I mean don't get me wrong, what you said is certainly an improvement over what itshappening said but it is still counterproductive (IMO) to use that type of political language in public. Maybe use that type of language in a back room filled with cigar smoke. It certainly isn't going to run you any friends when you or your friends are running for office and it is used against you on the radio, online and in debates.

FSP-Rebel
01-24-2013, 10:21 AM
The main thing that people can do in their state to make it easier to knock off these rinos is to push to scrap your primary system in favor for party delegates picking nominees at state conventions and local nominees at county conventions. Each C4L state group should be pushing for this in an unofficial capacity if needed. This should be the main question asked of candidates running for state chair and those for exec comm spots. Forget blowing absurd amounts of money in primaries as it's damaging to the party itself as well as to the taxpayers that foot the election tab. There's where the additional power of precinct delegates come into play and many more changes can happen relatively sooner on a broad scale.

Keith and stuff
01-24-2013, 10:45 AM
I don't support replacing voting by the people with major decisions like these being made in cigar smoking rooms.

Deborah K
01-24-2013, 10:51 AM
I like a lot of what you said but using that word is also divisive and distracting. I mean don't get me wrong, what you said is certainly an improvement over what itshappening said but it is still counterproductive (IMO) to use that type of political language in public. Maybe use that type of language in a back room filled with cigar smoke. It certainly isn't going to run you any friends when you or your friends are running for office and it is used against you on the radio, online and in debates.

How is discussing the strategy of infiltration counterproductive? It's an excellent strategy, just ask the KGB during the Cold War. It's done all the time, and it's time for this movement to seriously consider it, afterall, it wouldn't be for subversive purposes. It would be to restore freedom, the Constitution, and the Republic.

I don't intend to run for office, I'm not a pundit, and I highly doubt anything I say on these forums gets reported back to the shadow gov't. LOL. However, I am aware that ideas discussed here can permeate the subconscious and stir in the soul, and can potentially become successful strategies.

Let's say, for the purpose of argument, that this was used against our movement on the radio, online, and in debates. So what? Explain to me how an adversary can, with intellectual honesty, accuse us of wanting to be destructive to the country by implanting liberty-minded individuals in the Democratic party, or any other party?

Keith and stuff
01-24-2013, 11:13 AM
It is the use of the word infiltration. It many people it is a negative word. It is a word that a decent opponent would use against you in a campaign, and they should. After all, it is a present you gave them to use against you. They should play that you (or whomever uses it) isn't a real Democrat and so on. Why give the opposition so much to use against you? It doesn't seem like smart politics to me. Someone runs as a Democrat because they like this and that about the Party, not because they want to infiltrate the Party. I recommend doing it for the right reasons.

Deborah K
01-24-2013, 12:22 PM
It is the use of the word infiltration. It many people it is a negative word. It is a word that a decent opponent would use against you in a campaign, and they should. After all, it is a present you gave them to use against you. They should play that you (or whomever uses it) isn't a real Democrat and so on. Why give the opposition so much to use against you? It doesn't seem like smart politics to me. Someone runs as a Democrat because they like this and that about the Party, not because they want to infiltrate the Party. I recommend doing it for the right reasons.

Keith, I get what you're saying. It would be ridiculous for someone to use the word in a highly visible venue while campaigning. LOL. I'm not suggesting that, I promise. hehe. I'm attempting to bring awareness to the strategy of running in a party that desperately needs reforming from within. What do you think we've been doing with the Republican party? How many Libertarians run as Republicans now? You may not like the use of the word, but as Shakespeare so eloquently put it: "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet." In this case, infiltration is a sweet smelling rose in that it produces a positive effect for the mindset of a nation, and thus its government. How many democrats left the party when they learned about Ron? I personally know of many. They could legitimately run as Democrats.

My belief is that we are running out of time in this country. We must activate all courses of action, in the most timely of fashions. The two-party system is entrenched and isn't going away any time soon. Our political philosophy (Ron's political philosophy) must permeate both parties as we don't have time to build an effective new party. My use of the word "infiltration" may be offensive and concerning to others, but even if the opposition knows of our intentions, they will most likely never be able to pin it on any one candidate. I'm not paranoid enough to think anyone from the opposition cares about what I've written in this post, or will ever read it. And if it plants seeds in the minds of doers, then I've accomplished my objective.

FSP-Rebel
01-24-2013, 12:27 PM
I don't support replacing voting by the people with major decisions like these being made in cigar smoking rooms.
The insiders can buy the votes of the "people" during primaries while the conservative base tends to come up short, not to mention non-pro-party platform people vote in these primaries for what should be a private party's officers picking their nominees. Party officers are like the electors that pick the prez, it's called a republican form of government. Plus, we surely don't want a democracy w/i the GOP, esp the way the media gets around. Yall don't have to do that in NH if you don't want but I'd want nothing to do with Ayotte or the other broad and my advice is to make it easier on yourselves and go for state convention nominee-picking route. Of course, many of you are content to send the worst of the worst to DC not caring much for the rest of the country, I've long since sensed that and got that impression when I lived there.

Bastiat's The Law
01-24-2013, 01:08 PM
We don't have the numbers to infiltrate both major parties. Besides, the democrats are irreversibly hopeless.

Deborah K
01-24-2013, 01:33 PM
We don't have the numbers to infiltrate both major parties. Besides, the democrats are irreversibly hopeless.

If all of them are hopeless, then why have so many of them become Paul supporters?

Keith and stuff
01-24-2013, 02:08 PM
We don't have the numbers to bother to care about and work with both major parties. Besides, the Democrats are irreversibly hopeless.
Then why are liberty Democrats getting elected and doing great things? Why are decent Democrats beating hopeless Democrats in major Democratic primaries?

TCE
01-24-2013, 08:57 PM
Keith is absolutely right. There is obvious low-hanging fruit on the Democratic side, especially at the State Legislature level. For those people who will never believe in the Democratic Party, then at least try and get involved in city-level politics, where the races are typically nonpartisan. The Party is just a vehicle. Everything is cyclical in American Politics. The Blue Dogs will come into vogue again. 2014 is not projected to be a great Democratic year, but it could be depending on where you happen to be. The top of the GOP hierarchy is highly corrupt. Could the Democratic Party be much worse? Would the Democrats have banned delegates from their convention?

sailingaway
01-24-2013, 09:16 PM
Both the DNC and RNC had votes where the voice vote was at least tied and they called for the side they wanted. I think both are equally corrupt, and use the one you can get elected in.