Supreme Court to consider if silence can be evidence of guilt

[RonPaulFanInGA]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/11/us-usa-court-silence-idUSBRE90A13P20130111

[cheapseats]

Anything you say can be used against you in a court of "Law", and anything you DON'T say can be used against you.

How will I know when my Countrymen have had enough . . . DANCING WITH THE STARS will be canceled?

[coastie]

All of the puzzle pieces are there for tyranny, yet everyone is silent. How poetic, huh?:(

[Danke]

Don't remain silent, answer a question with a question.

[cheapseats]

Don't remain silent, answer a question with a question.

Does that work?

Or does that invite self-aggrandizing Black Robes to declare "CONTEMPT OF COURT"?

[coastie]

fucking doubel

[coastie]

Anything you say can be used against you in a court of "Law", and anything you DON'T say can be used against you.

How will I know when my Countrymen have had enough . . . DANCING WITH THE STARS will be canceled?

DWTS? CANCELLED? Protests, and then riots would ensue. Boycotts on ABC programming/advertisers(Oprah gets involved, she can do some damage just by opening her mouth). Possible uptick in suicide and homicide by those on SSRI's, etc. Then, ABC caves, brings back some DWTC along with the latest washed up stars that they'll heavily market/promote/edit/ and produce into dreamy fantasy sex symbols. The masses will be all, "OMG, did you see Justin Beiber and Chelsea dance together the other night? He is so bangin that!" "OMG" <giggles> "Next week.....they're doing Argentine Tango:eek::toady::eek:"

Ratings soar as the masses are treated to Lockheed commercials promoting the armed drones that fly over their heads, keeping them safe and and then Lunesta commercials so the masses are able to sleep through the night, wrapped in their warm blanket of state control. .........:confused:

:toady: Sorry, I got carried away there, was just disusing all of this with my 14 yr old.:cool:



Yes, It would be a mess, for sure.

[sailingaway]

It had damned well better decide 'no'.

[acptulsa]

I'm just trying to define the brand of logic that dictates that a cop testifying, 'We asked him if he did it and he didn't say nothing,' should remove all reasonable doubt from the minds of a sane jury...

[heavenlyboy34]

How many among you are going to the SCOTUS and demanding that they rule properly? Let's see ya put your belief in the "Social Contract" in action! ;)

[cheapseats]

How many among you are going to the SCOTUS and demanding that they rule properly? Let's see ya put your belief in the "Social Contract" in action! ;)


Thread: Call for Gun Rights MARCH!

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?399956-Call-for-Gun-Rights-MARCH!


...waaaaaaaaaaaaay more people than Second Amendment defenders have cause to MARCH.


At this point, Deciders will do as they please unless they are AFRAID to...evidence abounds.

[anaconda]

Was Miranda unconstitutional? i.e. "You have the right to remain silent.." Maybe they mean that now you can still remain silent but that it will be used against you in a court of law.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

We can see where this is going.

[JK/SEA]

this is why we need water-boarding to go mainstream.

[cheapseats]

Thread: The War On Terror Spreads to Africa: U.S. Sending Troops to 35 African Nations

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?401239-The-War-On-Terror-Spreads-to-Africa-U.S.-Sending-Troops-to-35-African-Nations&highlight=troops+africa


AFRICA, the final frontier for bogarting Other People's Resources...with attendant bloodshed and misery.

AFRICA, which "we" have been "saving" my ENTIRE life.

AFRICOM, situated in Germany and populated mainly by white guys.

Washington DC should be OVERRUN with Protesters, and I mean brought to a standstill.

[cheapseats]

this is why we need water-boarding to go mainstream.


Mainstream Americans a.k.a. The Ruled are feeling MORE THAN ENOUGH pain and fear, while Rulers feel NEITHER.

Presume that Oppressed/Abused abide by the principle of non-aggression...even if they are actually "only" afraid. Until the first shot is fired (which may not be a SHOT, per se, but an INCIDENT or POLICY that "breaks the camel's back), Oppressed/Abused can then "only" inflict economic pain/loss &/or fear-monger...just like the OTHER side fear-mongers. Think of Fear as SOCIAL PAIN. Scare Tactics are CLEARLY acceptable...I give you the insurance ads that goose the buying public with uncouth "MAYHEM" scenarios. But when the Dissident "side" fear-mongers, it is agreed by everyone in office and everyone in corporate media AND MANY ACTIVISTS that fear-mongering Activists have crossed the APPROPRIATE/TASTEFUL line.

A starstruck public and hungry apolitical/amoral vendors compound the problem.

[acptulsa]

Does that work?

Or does that invite self-aggrandizing Black Robes to declare "CONTEMPT OF COURT"?

We should protest this.

Anyone know where we can rent a herd of kangaroos? Would appearing with a kangaroo get us charged with contempt of court as well?

It really does feel like we'll soon be able to tell friend from enemy with ease--all the good guys will be wearing numbers.

Like SS prisoners.

[presence]

Don't remain silent, answer a question with a question.

I don't leave a cop interaction without inquiring, "do you recycle?"

[RickyJ]

If a meteorite took out the entire Supreme Court at once then the collective IQ of the USA would rise instead of fall.

[mad cow]

Don't remain silent, answer a question with a question.

Ah,The old 'I know you are,but what am I?' loophole.

[Philhelm]

Does that work?

Or does that invite self-aggrandizing Black Robes to declare "CONTEMPT OF COURT"?

Why would asking a question be contemptuous?

[Pauls' Revere]

Anything you say can be used against you in a court of "Law", and anything you DON'T say can be used against you.

How will I know when my Countrymen have had enough . . . DANCING WITH THE STARS will be canceled?

Replaced with Honey Boo Boo.

[alucard13mmfmj]

damned if you answer. damned if you don't answer?

[heavenlyboy34]

We should protest this.

Anyone know where we can rent a herd of kangaroos? Would appearing with a kangaroo get us charged with contempt of court as well?

It really does feel like we'll soon be able to tell friend from enemy with ease--all the good guys will be wearing numbers.

Like SS prisoners.
I'm hoping AF and donnay are my cellmates and the rest of y'all are in my prison camp. Maybe we can chat in mess hall and such.

[aGameOfThrones]

Cromwell: Now, Sir Thomas, you stand on your silence.

Sir Thomas More: I do.

Cromwell: But, gentlemen of the jury, there are many kinds of silence. Consider first the silence of a man who is dead. Let us suppose we go into the room where he is laid out, and we listen: what do we hear? Silence. What does it betoken, this silence? Nothing; this is silence pure and simple. But let us take another case. Suppose I were to take a dagger from my sleeve and make to kill the prisoner with it; and my lordships there, instead of crying out for me to stop, maintained their silence. That would betoken! It would betoken a willingness that I should do it, and under the law, they will be guilty with me. So silence can, according to the circumstances, speak! Let us consider now the circumstances of the prisoner's silence. The oath was put to loyal subjects up and down the country, and they all declared His Grace's title to be just and good. But when it came to the prisoner, he refused! He calls this silence. Yet is there a man in this court - is there a man in this country! - who does not know Sir Thomas More's opinion of this title?
Crowd in court gallery: No!

Cromwell: Yet how can this be? Because this silence betokened, nay, this silence was, not silence at all, but most eloquent denial!

Sir Thomas More: Not so. Not so, Master Secretary. The maxim is "Qui tacet consentire": the maxim of the law is "Silence gives consent". If therefore you wish to construe what my silence betokened, you must construe that I consented, not that I denied.

Cromwell: Is that in fact what the world construes from it? Do you pretend that is what you wish the world to construe from it?

Sir Thomas More: The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.

[TywinLannister]

Don't remain silent, answer a question with a question.

Absolutely! This is the best way to handle the police. Every time they ask a question, reply with, "I know you are, but what am I?"

[pacelli]

They may as well just get it over with and decide that silence = guilt , even if the mundane in question is deaf.

Lets stop the charade that the majority of votes of the assholes in Washington actually represent the people. We all know that the majority of these people move in and out of lobbyist groups and multinational corporations, stepping into the "public life" only to vote based on how they are ordered \ seduced \ blackmailed to vote.

May God have mercy on our once great Republic.

[Anti Federalist]

Don't remain silent, answer a question with a question.

Felony obstruction of an investigation.

Felony resisting without violence.

Felony USC 1001 violation.

[ghengis86]

May God have mercy on our once great Republic.

I don't think He will. Nor should He. America is getting what it deserves right now, good and hard.

[Anti Federalist]

Goodbye Fifth Amendment.

Not a fuck was given.

Not one asshole cares, outside of our merry little band of refuseniks.

This will now be illegal.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

[Anti Federalist]

Am I under arrest? Am I being detained? Am I free to go?


Supreme Court to consider if silence can be evidence of guilt

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/11/us-usa-court-silence-idUSBRE90A13P20130111

(Reuters) - The Supreme Court on Friday agreed to consider whether a suspect's refusal to answer police questions prior to being arrested and read his rights can be introduced as evidence of guilt at his subsequent murder trial.

Without comment, the court agreed to hear the appeal of Genovevo Salinas, who was convicted of murder and sentenced to 20 years in prison for the December 1992 deaths of two brothers in Houston.

Salinas voluntarily answered police questions for about an hour, but he became silent when asked whether shotgun shells found at the crime scene would match a gun found at his home. An officer testified that Salinas demonstrated signs of deception.

Ballistics testing later matched the gun to the casings left at the murder scene.

Salinas was charged in 1993 but evaded arrest until his capture in 2007.

His first trial ended in a mistrial. At his second trial, Texas was able to introduce evidence of his silence in the police station, over his lawyer's objections.

Salinas' lawyer argued that his client deserved a Fifth Amendment protection against self-incrimination, even though he had not been under arrest or read his rights under the landmark 1966 decision Miranda v. Arizona.

Last April, the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the conviction but noted that federal appeals courts are split as to whether "pre-arrest, pre-Miranda silence is admissible as substantive evidence of guilt."

Texas opposed the appeal, saying that the protection against compulsory self-incrimination is irrelevant when a suspect is under no compulsion to speak, as Salinas was because he was not under arrest and was speaking voluntarily. It also said that any error was harmless.

A decision is expected by the end of June.

The decision is Salinas v. Texas, U.S. Supreme Court, No. 12-246.

[FindLiberty]

Goodbye Fifth Amendment. Not a fuck was given.
Not one asshole cares, outside of our merry little band of refuseniks...

Sad but true.

[Philhelm]

They may as well just get it over with and decide that silence = guilt , even if the mundane in question is deaf.

Why stop there? What if accused = guilt?

[ghengis86]

Sad but true.

Hey, I'm your life
I'm the one who takes you there
Hey, I'm your life
I'm the one who cares
They, they betray
I'm your only true friend now
They, they'll betray
I'm forever there
I'm your dream, make you real
I'm your eyes when you must steal
I'm your pain when you can't feel, sad but true
I'm your dream, mind astray
I'm your eyes while you're away
I'm your pain while you repay
You know it's sad but true, sad but true

You, you're my mask
You're my cover, my shelter
You, you're my mask
You're the one who's blamed
Do, do my work
Do my dirty work, scapegoat
Do, do my deeds, for you're the one who's shamed
I'm your dream, make you real
I'm your eyes when you must steal
I'm your pain when you can't feel, sad but true
I'm your dream, mind astray
I'm your eyes while you're away
I'm your pain while you repay
You know it's sad but true, sad but true

I'm your dream
I'm your eyes
I'm your pain
I'm your dream (I'm your dream)
I'm your eyes (I'm your eyes)
I'm your pain (I'm your pain)
You know it's sad but true

Hate, I'm your hate
I'm your hate when you want love
Pay, pay the price
Pay for nothing's fair
Hey, I'm your life
I'm the one who took you here
Hey, I'm you life and I no longer care
I'm your dream, make you real
I'm your eyes when you must steal
I'm your pain when you can't feel, sad but true
I'm your truth, telling lies
I'm your reasoned alibis
I'm inside open your eyes
I'm you, sad but true

[paulbot24]

And what of those times your lawyer advises you to remain silent? Is he aiding in your deception? Let me guess, now that we've lost patient/doctor confidentiality, it is time to revoke attorney/client privileges too. Why don't they just set fire to the damn Constitution and get on with it already! Enough with your provisional "common sense" asterisks and footnotes on the articles and amendments. All these candy ass hacks trying to tell us they knew what the founding fathers were "really trying to say" when they penned the great documents that birthed this nation from the ashes of tyranny. Enough posturing, preening, and hypocrisy. Just shred it live on your networks so the next day everybody can start arguing over whose fault it is, the Democrats or Republicans. Christ.

[Philhelm]

I don't think He will. Nor should He. America is getting what it deserves right now, good and hard.

I thought God was against sodomy...

[ghengis86]

I thought God was against sodomy...

Depends on your perspective, which depends on if you're awake or not.

The sheeple are being pimped out for their corporate/bankster masters.

The rest of us are being raped. And since silence is consent and speaking out is incriminating , it doesn't matter what you say or don't say.

[Danke]

Absolutely! This is the best way to handle the police. Every time they ask a question, reply with, "I know you are, but what am I?"


Ah,The old 'I know you are,but what am I?' loophole.

lol, now run along mundanes, nothing to be learned here.

[SpreadOfLiberty]

5th amendment anybody?

What if you are a mute?

[Philhelm]

What if you are a mute?

Fuck 'em. Guilty! Guilty! Guilty!

It's better to execute 100 innocent men than to let one enemy of the state go free.

[phill4paul]

MMmm. Enthusiastic. Jubilant. I once wanted nothing more than to be left alone. I'm glad to find out I'm not the only one. Outside my circle.

[AGRP]

Would a fart be considered silence?

[Philhelm]

Would a fart be considered silence?

No. It would be a misdestinker.

[Anti Federalist]

Would a fart be considered silence?

Felony battery on a police officer.

Man charged with battery for passing gas near police officer.

http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/29653059.html

[Anti Federalist]

///

[Tpoints]

Does that work?

Or does that invite self-aggrandizing Black Robes to declare "CONTEMPT OF COURT"?

Yes, speaking when you are not asked can definitely give you contempt. Besides, not answering the question is "silence" if you talk gibberish.

[satchelmcqueen]

i will find out myself on jan 31 in fannin county ga. ex wife lies to court with no evidence. almost 1 yr later, i am scheduled for court. we shall see. if things dont go fair i shall post the outcome and things to occur. i may need everyone's help here. things may be rigged.
Anything you say can be used against you in a court of "Law", and anything you DON'T say can be used against you.

How will I know when my Countrymen have had enough . . . DANCING WITH THE STARS will be canceled?

[Danke]

Yes, speaking when you are not asked can definitely give you contempt. Besides, not answering the question is "silence" if you talk gibberish.

Don't answer with "gibberish." Ask poignant questions. Try to get at the heart of the matter, or at least contract with them as they are trying to do with you. And attache and record a monetary value to it. Your time is worth something. Contract law. Learn it.

[phill4paul]

When asked a question FILIBUSTER the court system. The more time spent dealing with you the less time to deal with others.

[presence]

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/003422209/5749386890_3506877_370_xlarge.jpeg
Article V

nor shall be compelled in any criminal case
to be a witness against himself

[presence]

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/003422209/5749386890_3506877_370_xlarge.jpeg

Article V


...nor shall be compelled in any criminal case
to be a witness against himself...

[KingNothing]

Don't remain silent, answer a question with a question.

What? Did I commit the murder? Well, did YOU? No I'm not being obtuse or avoiding the question. Are YOU avoiding the question?

[cheapseats]

I don't leave a cop interaction without inquiring, "do you recycle?"


Do you have "cop interactions" often enough for that to be an established pattern?

[cheapseats]

I'm just trying to define the brand of logic that dictates that a cop testifying, 'We asked him if he did it and he didn't say nothing,' should remove all reasonable doubt from the minds of a sane jury...

In a word, EVIL.

We can leave SANE outta this.

[cheapseats]

In a word, EVIL.


Regarding the age-old war 'twixt GOOD vs. EVIL, I believe not only as Anti Federalist elsewhere points out...that it happened in my/our LIFETIMES...but more to the point, it happened on OUR WATCH.

It is morally incumbent upon moral people to try to correct/alter/improve/mitigate the situation, even if we face certain failure. While I now concede that SOMEONE has to "play the (filthy) game" of politics, WE'LL GET 'EM IN THE NEXT ELECTION (or the next, or the next) does NOT constitute "putting up a good fight".

Some believe in God [for lack of a human terms that suffices]; some believe in Salvation/AfterLife/Reincarnation/Whatever. Some believe this temporal existence is the whole ball of wax. Big difference. Night and day...heaven and hell.

For those who BELIEVE, I guaran-fucking-tee that GOVERNMENT MADE ME DO IT will not pass muster at a Pearly Gate type turnstile.

[Anti Federalist]

For those who BELIEVE, I guaran-fucking-tee that GOVERNMENT MADE ME DO IT will not pass muster at a Pearly Gate type turnstile.

This.

[Brian4Liberty]

Silence=guilt.
Denial=guilt.
Confession=guilt.

Torture can be combined with any of the above, with the result still being guilt.

Any other options? If you float, you are wood, and therefore guilty.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Guilty until proven innocent, bitch. Think you're smarter than me?? I got my GED at the ripe age of 26.

[Pauls' Revere]

Silence=guilt.
Denial=guilt.
Confession=guilt.

Torture can be combined with any of the above, with the result still being guilt.

Any other options? If you float, you are wood, and therefore guilty.

Reminds me of the Monty Python skit where they find a witch guilty...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g

[jkr]

guilty

period

[DamianTV]

Guilty until proven Innocent.

Now, lets just make sure you dont have the ability to prove yourself innocent, since the "jury of your peers" is a hand picked group of morons who are all for finding the accused guilty, regardless of whether or not the evidence presented provides proof of a persons guilt or not. It is no different than Guilt of being Black (convicted by a lilly white Jury), or really, Guilty of <insert Prejudicial Dividing Reason here>.

There are reasons that Courts are referred to as a Court of Law, not a Court of Justice. There is no actual Justice that takes place in a Court of Law.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Guilty until proven Innocent.

Now, lets just make sure you dont have the ability to prove yourself innocent, since the "jury of your peers" is a hand picked group of morons who are all for finding the accused guilty, regardless of whether or not the evidence presented provides proof of a persons guilt or not. It is no different than Guilt of being Black (convicted by a lilly white Jury), or really, Guilty of <insert Prejudicial Dividing Reason here>.

There are reasons that Courts are referred to as a Court of Law, not a Court of Justice. There is no actual Justice that takes place in a Court of Law.We find the verdict Guilty. Can we go home now and catch the new episode of CSI Detroit?

[paulbot24]

If silence can be evidence of guilt then what the hell is Clarence Thomas hiding? Up until last week he'd been silent behind the bench since February 22, 2006!:D

[Slutter McGee]

To be fair, these kind of issues are the ones the supreme court is usually pretty good on. The Liberals and Conservatives alike. I can give you plenty of examples.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

[Danke]

What? Did I commit the murder? Well, did YOU? No I'm not being obtuse or avoiding the question. Are YOU avoiding the question?

It is a little more subtle than that. You do answer questions only after attaining what is being asked of you. That is why you first ask questions to understand what performance is being asked of you. If you understand that, let them know you are willing to contract. Give them the terms for which you are willing to continue. If they use force, let them know you are acting under duress. This is the basis for your case to be presented in front a judge if it goes that far.

[GunnyFreedom]

How many among you are going to the SCOTUS and demanding that they rule properly? Let's see ya put your belief in the "Social Contract" in action! ;)

If SCOTUS ruled 'properly' then they would rule that the Constitution never gave them the power of judicial oversight, and even if it did, the purpose of the 5th Amendment is clear, and should invoking it become evidence of guilt, then the entire check on power is eliminated and totalitarianism ensues flagrantly.

But the Supreme Court pretty much never rules 'properly' on any issue for any reason. Even when they make the right decision they justify it with some black helicopter space-alien nonsense that has left American juris prudence in crisis.

Sooo I don't see a lot of that happening. Whenever something gets to the Supreme Court it's usually "Shall we ban sex or require that everyone die afterwards?" Until we restore more Constitutional function elsewhere they can rot. We can work on them later. :D

[Occam's Banana]

But the Supreme Court pretty much never rules 'properly' on any issue for any reason. Even when they make the right decision they justify it with some black helicopter space-alien nonsense that has left American juris prudence in crisis.

The truth of this cannot possibly be emphasized enough.

(Black-helicopter space-alien nonsense = legal positivism = "might makes right") != (justice = "rule of law")

[Anti Federalist]

Guilty until proven Innocent.

Now, lets just make sure you dont have the ability to prove yourself innocent, since the "jury of your peers" is a hand picked group of morons who are all for finding the accused guilty, regardless of whether or not the evidence presented provides proof of a persons guilt or not. It is no different than Guilt of being Black (convicted by a lilly white Jury), or really, Guilty of <insert Prejudicial Dividing Reason here>.

There are reasons that Courts are referred to as a Court of Law, not a Court of Justice. There is no actual Justice that takes place in a Court of Law.

Not to mention Asset Forfeiture has seized all your possessions, savings and bank accounts, leaving you bankrupt.

The best lawyers can be hired by broke bastards in jail, amirite?