PDA

View Full Version : The New Class of Citizen: The Educated Poor




Philhelm
01-20-2013, 12:59 AM
Poverty is often associated with negative stereotypes: lack of intelligence, laziness, and even immorality. However, due to the nature of free information and easy credit in which education can be obtained, we are developing a new class of citizen: the Educated Poor.

I will not confuse intelligence with education, but many also believe that intelligence is a causation of wealth, which is a false assumption. Certainly intelligence would be a valuable asset in wealth acquisition, but if the relationship were truly causational, we would encounter a drastic shift in wealth distribution. Not every individual's prime directive is the acquisition of wealth and status. Furthermore, if an intelligent being is more sentient than a less intelligent being, then it can be surmised that the intelligent being may be capable of a greater range of rationalizations and motivations. One with higher intelligence would certainly have an advantage in locating and identifying corruption, nepotism, favoritism, and every other distortion of the workplace that does not truly reward merit. Perhaps such an individual would realize that hard work does not always pay, or that he can never compete with a friend or family member of the employer.

Perhaps the more important issue is that of education versus training, which is a concept that has been widely forgotten. Indeed, I once had this conversation with a college classmate. I had asserted that there is a difference between education and training; while the two can overlap, there is a distinct difference. To simplify the matter, I said that, generally, professions ending with "ing" tend to involve training, rather than education. Accounting, Nursing, Engineering, Computer Programming, Plumbing, etc. In my example, I had claimed that the plumber is trained to perform a task, and that the knowledge needed to perform that task in not necessarily indicative of education. Of course, my classmate retorted that the plumber would be angry if I claimed him to be uneducated. She had missed the point. The plumber may or may not be well educated, but his primary career function relies more on training than education and enlightenment.

If you are in doubt, consider the job market. Which degrees and professions are more useful for obtaining employment? Which degrees and professions depend primarily upon learning how to perform a task? What does a classical education entail? Compare the historian to the computer programmer. Which one is primarily educated and which one is primarily trained?

Since some degrees and professions are more suitable for employment than others, there will be those that are less valuable in the job market. Of course, the nurse that is trained to perform a task is in higher demand than the most brilliant of philosophers. What does this mean? Well, it means that there will be many people with "useless" degrees and educations that will have a more difficult time finding employment or obtaining higher wage employment. Therefore, one's wage is not directly proportional to one's education or intelligence.

Of course, the argument would be that the more intelligent person would seek a degree or profession that is of greater market value. Again, that assumes that the intelligent individual's motivation and passion are aligned with that which is profitable.

So, what are the elements of the Educated Poor?

1. College Degrees. College degrees are truly the bane of our market existence, especially today. Nobody on this forum would argue against the fact that we are suffering from degree inflation. There are more people with college degrees than the market can handle. This is compounded by the fact that there are many jobs in which employers demand a college degree for a particular job, yet the job had not historically required such.

2. Easy Credit. Almost anyone can get a student loan. This, of course, has contributed to degree inflation. There are many college graduates that are unemployed simply because of degree inflation.

3. Easy Access to Information. It is a misconception that college is the only route toward education. With libraries, and especially the Internet, individuals are quite capable of self-education.

4. Lateral Career Shifts. This ties in with the requirement of a college degree for many positions. If you are in a profession that isn't branching out, how simple will it be to change careers?

5. "College Graduates Need Not Apply." Experience counts for much, but training and apprenticeships have fallen by the wayside. How does one gain experience when never allowed the opportunity at an entry-level position?

6. Government. Perhaps this should be placed at the very top. It's no secret here that government interference has resulted in higher unemployment.

7. Discrimination. This could be anything from racism, agism, and sexism, to preferring attractive employees. Of course, government hiring quotas would be included here. While no laws should inhibit the property-owning employee, human nature cannot be changed even if it is not just.

8. Nepotism. "It's not what you know, it's who you know. No amount of intelligence or education can compete.

9. "Damn You're Good!" This is more significant in professions requiring technical expertise. If you're so good at your job that promoting "the other guy" would result in a net loss of productivity, then what is the motivation to hire you?

10. "My Retirment Plan is a Bullet to the Mouth." With the ruined economy, fewer people are able to retire. This, of course, only hurts the younger waves of the Educated Poor.

What does this all mean? It means that the old order of supposedly uneducated, unintelligent poor is clearly out the window. The new class of citizen to emerge is the Educated Poor. These are men and women that have aspirations and have strived to better themselves but have been unable to do so because of factors beyond their control. These individuals may be worse off than the working poor, despite being possibly more promising candidates for receiving an employment position. While education for its own sake is noble, education alone will not bring financial success.

pochy1776
01-20-2013, 01:08 AM
+Rep

Anti Federalist
01-20-2013, 01:09 AM
This is what happens when you "go nuclear" on a nation's manufacturing and production sector (you know, the place where middle class jobs and incomes are created), open the doors to millions and millions and millions of unskilled immigrant laborers, create an underclass of takers and pensioners on the government dole that is now a majority and foster a mindset that everybody can be a million dollar pro sports athlete or the next Gates or Zuckerberg instead of working hard and learning a trade.

I see no way out of it, myself.

DamianTV
01-20-2013, 01:10 AM
+Rep

pochy1776
01-20-2013, 01:13 AM
This is what happens when you "go nuclear" on a nation's manufacturing and production sector (you know, the place where middle class jobs and incomes are created), open the doors to millions and millions and millions of unskilled immigrant laborers, create an underclass of takers and pensioners on the government dole that is now a majority and foster a mindset that everybody can be a million dollar pro sports athlete or the next Gates or Zuckerberg instead of working hard and learning a trade.

I see no way out of it, myself.

Hi tech jobs, STEM, Medical are all things that require schooling. I think more american boys and girls should only bother going to school for these crafts rather than learning useless poetry. Some people really don't want to follow daddy's general store trading or work in a mine. Thats why people go to college.

Carehn
01-20-2013, 01:16 AM
Default

Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm View Post
On the other hand, a new class of citizen is emerging: The Educated Poor.


Mother of God! I think you have hit on something. I really do.

I told you, you had it.

Anti Federalist
01-20-2013, 01:20 AM
Hi tech jobs, STEM, Medical are all things that require schooling. I think more american boys and girls should only bother going to school for these crafts rather than learning useless poetry. Some people really don't want to follow daddy's general store trading or work in a mine. Thats why people go to college.
Maybe not.

Somebody still has to man the counter and dig the coal though.

Two tough life lessons:

1 - Not everybody, in fact most people, are not "true" college material or capable of college level work. (The college drop out rates reflect this)

2 - The world needs ditch diggers.

Philhelm
01-20-2013, 01:21 AM
I told you, you had it.

Your comment had inspired me to start this thread.

Philhelm
01-20-2013, 11:50 AM
The world needs ditch diggers.

And now the ditch diggers can recite "MacBeth" and be tens of thousands of dollars in debt.

oyarde
01-20-2013, 12:10 PM
This is what happens when you "go nuclear" on a nation's manufacturing and production sector (you know, the place where middle class jobs and incomes are created), open the doors to millions and millions and millions of unskilled immigrant laborers, create an underclass of takers and pensioners on the government dole that is now a majority and foster a mindset that everybody can be a million dollar pro sports athlete or the next Gates or Zuckerberg instead of working hard and learning a trade.

I see no way out of it, myself. I agree , with no production, there is no real wealth , just my observaton.

mad cow
01-20-2013, 12:11 PM
Had that ditch digger skipped college,he would be debt free and probably running the backhoe now,if not his own construction company.

oyarde
01-20-2013, 12:14 PM
I like Midsummers Nights Dream much better than Macbeth.I was an educated ditch digger @17 , but could also drive the backhoe :)

acptulsa
01-20-2013, 12:25 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nouLjfCE22E

It don't take no brains to inherit. As Dubya proved beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Anti Federalist
01-20-2013, 12:36 PM
I agree , with no production, there is no real wealth , just my observaton.

Bingo, right there.

Without production, without physically taking a resource and turning it into a valuable product that people need and want, you're just kicking the can down the road.

pochy1776
01-20-2013, 12:47 PM
Maybe not.

Somebody still has to man the counter and dig the coal though.

Two tough life lessons:

1 - Not everybody, in fact most people, are not "true" college material or capable of college level work. (The college drop out rates reflect this)

2 - The world needs ditch diggers.

Not everybody has to. THe math or science whiz at school or the boy/girl who can write incredibly well should be able to go to college. The slacker or the boy/girl who wants to "expand her/his horizon" should not.

pochy1776
01-20-2013, 12:48 PM
Bingo, right there.

Without production, without physically taking a resource and turning it into a valuable product that people need and want, you're just kicking the can down the road.
You've been reading the right stuff. Hayek and Mises espoused this.

Anti Federalist
01-20-2013, 12:52 PM
Not everybody has to. THe math or science whiz at school or the boy/girl who can write incredibly well should be able to go to college. The slacker or the boy/girl who wants to "expand her/his horizon" should not.

Without sounding too contrary, there's nothing wrong with that either.

Just understand that education will not necessarily convert into a skill that pays well...or anything for that matter.

acptulsa
01-20-2013, 12:53 PM
Not everybody has to. THe math or science whiz at school or the boy/girl who can write incredibly well should be able to go to college. The slacker or the boy/girl who wants to "expand her/his horizon" should not.

People who want to expand their horizons should not go to college.

Are we still making fun of hippie lingo? Does college have any purpose any more besides expanding (very specifically) our earning power horizons? Have these former windows on the world really so degenerated into molds into which we stuff our children so they'll all come out alike?

That's thought-provoking on so many levels.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
01-20-2013, 12:57 PM
In the United States, a certificate or degree of knowledge is ordained by lawyers. Say that over and over until you have learned humility. Indeed, your expertise is blessed by lawyers if you have been deemed so within the United States. Again, all certificates of titles are deemed official by lawyers. In the olden days in the monarchy, the king would ordain one officially so in order that they could help him keep the commoners in subjection to him.
This all amounts to workings of inequity.

acptulsa
01-20-2013, 01:04 PM
In the United States, a certificate or degree of knowledge is ordained by lawyers. Say that over and over until you have learned humility. Indeed, your expertise is blessed by lawyers if you have been deemed so within the United States. Again, all certificates of titles are deemed official by lawyers. In the olden days in the monarchy, the king would ordain one officially so in order that they could help him keep the commoners in subjection to him.
This all amounts to workings of inequity.


'Every time a lawyer writes something, he is not writing for posterity, he is writing so that endless others of his craft can make a living out of trying to figure out what he said.'--Will Rogers

So, what we're saying here is that college is there these days strictly to ensure that any Officially Educated Idiot can trounce any Unofficially Educated Genius because you can't win unless you have the Official Secret Decoder Ring?

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
01-20-2013, 01:10 PM
People who want to expand their horizons should not go to college.

Are we still making fun of hippie lingo? Does college have any purpose any more besides expanding (very specifically) our earning power horizons? Have these former windows on the world really so degenerated into molds into which we stuff our children so they'll all come out alike?

That's thought-provoking on so many levels.

Universities of advanced knowledge were created Western Europe to unravel the mysteries of the ancient Greek philosophers. These were in contrast to the Christian schools that existed prior to that which had math as its core science and spiritual philosophy, Christianity, as its base. Catholicism ultimately adopted Aristotle's works as God's natural laws. This is why all natural philosophers (scientists) at one time had to be members of the clergy.
Still, this had very little to do with ones natural abilities as the first born went customarily into the employ of the ruling monarchies and the second born went into the service of the Church. The rest of the children were pretty much abandoned to the business of surviving on land totally owned by the king.
In the end, we aren't here to learn, but to be happy. If I can figure out how to make you happier, this isn't necessarily a good thing for the king. It takes a lot of faith to be symbiotic rather than parasitic. What monarchies did was create societies living in a constant state of illness as it wouldn't be in the best interest of a parasite to kill the host body. In contrast to a parasite, a symbiotic organism advances the health of itself as well as the host body. This is why I say order must be established first and then laws passed to advance the order. There is no such thing as just maintaining the order as such a function would only serve to preserve society in a perpetual state of a dynasty.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
01-20-2013, 01:11 PM
People who want to expand their horizons should not go to college.

Are we still making fun of hippie lingo? Does college have any purpose any more besides expanding (very specifically) our earning power horizons? Have these former windows on the world really so degenerated into molds into which we stuff our children so they'll all come out alike?

That's thought-provoking on so many levels.

Universities of advanced knowledge were created Western Europe to unravel the mysteries of the ancient Greek philosophers. These were in contrast to the Christian schools that existed prior to that which had math as its core science and spiritual philosophy, Christianity, as its base. Catholicism ultimately adopted Aristotle's works as God's natural laws. This is why all natural philosophers (scientists) at one time had to be members of the clergy.
Still, this had very little to do with ones natural abilities as the first born went customarily into the employ of the ruling monarchies and the second born went into the service of the Church. The rest of the children were pretty much abandoned to the business of surviving on land totally owned by the king.
In the end, we aren't here to learn, but to be happy. If I can figure out how to make you happier, this isn't necessarily a good thing for the king. It takes a lot of faith to be symbiotic rather than parasitic. What monarchies did was create societies living in a constant state of illness as it wouldn't be in the best interest of a parasite to kill the host body. In contrast to a parasite, a symbiotic organism advances the health of itself as well as the host body. This is why I say order must be established first and then laws passed to advance the order. There is no such thing as just maintaining the order as such a function would only serve to preserve society in a perpetual state of a dynasty.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
01-20-2013, 01:20 PM
So, what we're saying here is that college is there these days strictly to ensure that any Officially Educated Idiot can trounce any Unofficially Educated Genius because you can't win unless you have the Official Secret Decoder Ring?

Yes. That is about right. The majority are led astray by the sophists from ever seeing what is real intelligence. At least, what is truly intelligent concerning their best interests. For example, as the super conservative William Buckley would argue from a conservative platform, the super liberal Noam Chomsky would argue from a liberal platform. They did this because they accepted the two party system as an advancement over The Declaration of Independence, the establishment of a new order, and The U.S. Constitution, as the implementation of laws to advance that new order. Yet, Socrates himself never argued from a platform. Instead, he forever narrowed down towards a more and more perfect definition. In arguing against either William F. Buckley or Noam Chomsky, Socrates would have first narrowed down to what is considered American. In other words, Socrates narrowed down to what is bipartisan and apolitical.

Carehn
01-20-2013, 01:24 PM
Had that ditch digger skipped college,he would be debt free and probably running the backhoe now,if not his own construction company.

This kinda describes me. I skipped collage because I had a feeling it was a bad move. Now it turns out that experience is more valuable then 80 thousand dollars of debt.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
01-20-2013, 01:27 PM
Without sounding too contrary, there's nothing wrong with that either.

Just understand that education will not necessarily convert into a skill that pays well...or anything for that matter.

The natural laws are:

1. The product within the package reduces to quality.
2. All children should be taught to be a to z problem solvers.
3. Every person is born with a function in society that is administrative.