We need to GET BEHIND TREVOR & NOVEMBER 30th - RudysReadingList.com

[Wayne Hammond]

I submit, for your consideration... the following post, by the person whom we all called a genius for helping us raise over $4 million in one day. I think we owe him the courtesy of reading his post here, and supporting this effort:




Moments of Crisis Carry Seeds of opportunity

Yesterday a letter from Ron Paul Headquarters made a valid point. Advertising money is needed now. This is due to the delay that occurs between the ad purchase date, and the date that purchased ads can begin to run.

That having been said it is important to keep in mind that the TeaParty07.com fund raising drive is going to be BIG. We've already matched the ThisNovember5th.com donation day in pledges and have almost a month of additional promotion to use to add to our success. Rather than choose between the two dates, the better solution is to hold two separate "mass donation day" events.

At first glance it would seem that the earlier donation event will detract from the second one. Some people have limited funds that they can contribute and will not be able to donate twice. However, one missing element during the November 5th event is no longer missing, that element being a website already in place that is pushing the next fund raising drive. So, as we shoot for and achieve another 4 -5 million dollar drive on November 30th, this time the press coverage will simultaneously be marketing our next donation day (TeaParty07.com) for us.

Together, through the media attention we create, we will harness their power to reach hundreds of thousands of Ron Paul supporters. The media will bring these supporters to our new website in droves and when they arrive we will ask them to participate in the TeaParty07.com fund raising drive. This media boost will bring in thousands upon thousands of new donors for the next event, replacing and overcompensating for those who will have given all they can afford now rather than later.

Even though initially the email from headquarters may have seemed to present us with a difficult choice, it will actually be the very thing we have been looking for to push the TeaParty07.com effort over the edge. Again, some of us will not be able to donate twice, If you are one of these people I ask you do donate now and not later. We must reach 4 to 5 million in donations on November 30th if we are going to force the media to pay attention to us and feed the TeaParty07.com drive (as well as to get Ron Paul the money he needs to continue campaigning now). If you can only donate once your support sooner rather than later is critical.

As always we will use our donation event to speak to the American people. The new fund raising drive domain will be http://www.RudysReadingList.com. Agree or disagree, the advice of the experts must be heard. Sadly most Americans do not know what our own CIA says are the true causes of the terrorist attacks against our nation, and in their ignorance they support a policy that makes them less safe. During the South Carolina debate, Rudy Guiliani demagogued the issue and Ron Paul offered a rebuke. The true reasons for the attacks as conveyed by Ron Paul and given by the experts received far too little play. On November 30th the media will take their marching orders from "We the People" and be forced to speak the truth.

Again, this solution gives Ron Paul the money he needs now, while simultaneously bolstering our next event. Please stand behind this decision and make every effort to ensure it's success. Time is running out, the time to come together as one is here and now. We will never get another chance.

Please visit http://www.RudysReadingList.com and confirm your commitment to donate.

In the event the website is not yet live at the time you receive this email please visit http://www.teaparty07.com/RudysReadingList.htm and confirm your pledge there.

Please go to www.RudysReadingList.com and pledge your support for this fundraising day on November 30th, then come back here and let us know you pledged.

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[Ozwest]

O.K. What are the nuts and bolts? Let's make it happen!

[ItsTime]

Trevor was not the only one who planned Nov 5th

[Wayne Hammond]

O.K. What are the nuts and bolts? Let's make it happen!

First, Trevor is looking for ideas on how to improve the web site at www.RudysReadingList.com. He's got a temporary site up now, and is looking for our recommendations for a more permanent site.

Second, he needs our help spreading the word.

Third, he needs us to pledge that we will give $100 on Nov 30th (in addition to giving $100 or more on Dec. 16th).


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[TheEvilDetector]

Trevor was not the only one who planned Nov 5th

Trevor made the website but the idea came from someone else, Jamie Sugra I think.

[American]

The only problem I Have with that web site is there is no way to verify it will be going to Trevor.

Sorry, been doing the online thing for many years now and until this can be verified (and I'm not sure how that can be done) I cant even consider this. To many con's out there trying to rob the Ron Paul train.

Not only that, but Rudy is sinking in the polls, what would be the goal.

[Wayne Hammond]

Trevor was not the only one who planned Nov 5th

SO WHAT? Neither I, nor anyone else said that Trevor was solely responsible for Nov. 5th.

FACT: The campaign needs the cash sooner than Dec. 16th, so this is a solution that will help HQ in the interim, while we still make plans to drop the NUKE on Dec. 16th.

But I guess we're all too busy posting on this forum to get behind this effort. :confused:

Please, can we all just check our egos at the door and start concerning ourselves with what's best for the Ron Paul campaign?

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[TechnoGuyRob]

The only problem I Have with that web site is there is no way to verify it will be going to Trevor.

Sorry, been doing the online thing for many years now and until this can be verified (and I'm not sure how that can be done) I cant even consider this. To many con's out there trying to rob the Ron Paul train.

Not only that, but Rudy is sinking in the polls, what would be the goal.

http://who.godaddy.com/whoischeck.aspx?Domain=RUDYSREADINGLIST.COM

So there you go. :)

[Wayne Hammond]

Trevor made the website but the idea came from someone else, Jamie Sugra I think.

So what?? Who cares where the idea came from? The campaign needs the cash.. what is the problem with supporting this effort on Nov. 30th?

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[ItsTime]

Um Do you know me? or what I have done? Please dont flame me for exactly the same reason I was pointing out that Trevor was not the only one behind the 5th. But no you speak blindly towards me. When you all flamed the idea to raise another million on the sunday following the 5th.

Donate when and how much you can period. The ego lies in the fact you think you need to tell people when to do it.


SO WHAT? Neither I, nor anyone else said that Trevor was solely responsible for Nov. 5th.

FACT: The campaign needs the cash sooner than Dec. 16th, so this is a solution that will help HQ in the interim, while we still make plans to drop the NUKE on Dec. 16th.

But I guess we're all too busy posting on this forum to get behind this effort. :confused:

Please, can we all just check our egos at the door and start concerning ourselves with what's best for the Ron Paul campaign?

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[max]

too many moneybombs dilutes the media effect...

better to just give as much as you can in next 3 weeks and unload on 12/16...

id rather have the psycological impact of 10 million on 12-16 as opposed to 9.5...

[Wayne Hammond]

Um Do you know me? or what I have done?

News flash: It's not about YOU. It's about Ron Paul, and his HQ is asking for more funds, earlier than Dec. 16th.

Trevor has spearheaded a successful effort on Nov. 5th, and regardless of whether or not you think Nov 30th is a stupid idea, IT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

What the heck is the problem with you simply saying, "Yeah, I support this idea - let's all get behind it and give it our all"...?

Yeah, we are grassroots, and HQ is HQ, but we need to be responsive to their desires - after all, for those who haven't noticed - we're sending all our CASH to HQ... so now you don't trust HQ? Give me a break.

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[ItsTime]

I never said the 30th was a stupid idea... if so please use the quote button. When did I ever say I didnt trust HQ? my god... I have said over and over again that HQ is 100% right they need the money before the 16th. I do not support the idea that we need 100 money bombs. I think we need to stick to the 16th yet donate whatever we can before that. Is that too simple to understand?


News flash: It's not about YOU. It's about Ron Paul, and his HQ is asking for more funds, earlier than Dec. 16th.

Trevor has spearheaded a successful effort on Nov. 5th, and regardless of whether or not you think Nov 30th is a stupid idea, IT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

What the heck is the problem with you simply saying, "Yeah, I support this idea - let's all get behind it and give it our all"...?

Yeah, we are grassroots, and HQ is HQ, but we need to be responsive to their desires - after all, for those who haven't noticed - we're sending all our CASH to HQ... so now you don't trust HQ? Give me a break.

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[kill the banks]

well i said all along the tea party will be explosive anyway [ history for sure imo ] ... ron needs money now to win first few states ~ then we act [ i seriously think we do not get a second chance ] ... sign up !!!

kill the banks

[ItsTime]

ok PS I do think the 30th is too late right now too. The primary in NH is the 8th we need air time playing 24/7 all of december.

[Wayne Hammond]

I never said the 30th was a stupid idea... if so please use the quote button. When did I ever say I didnt trust HQ? my god... I have said over and over again that HQ is 100% right they need the money before the 16th. I do not support the idea that we need 100 money bombs. I think we need to stick to the 16th yet donate whatever we can before that. Is that too simple to understand?

If you truly believe this, why would you then fight those who believe that we should donate on November 30th?

Why can't you just say, "I'm personally not going to give on the 30th, but if folks want to do a November 30th money-bomb, I think that's great!" ?

I'll tell you why - it's because you're claiming now that we're talking about numerous money-bombs, when that is a lie. We're talking about TWO (2) money bombs - one on Nov 30 and one on Dec 16th. You want a quote? Here you go:

I do not support the idea that we need 100 money bombs.

Now take it back and say that you'll support anyone who wants to give on Nov. 30th. :mad:

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[American]

http://who.godaddy.com/whoischeck.aspx?Domain=RUDYSREADINGLIST.COM

So there you go. :)

Good deal, and what is this site supposed to do, Rudy's numbers are sinking. Anyways, I cant do it, money is tight holidays here I am waiting till Dec 16th.

You want to help get out and get new supporters, they havent doanted yet. That will make all the difference in the world. the money is to get new support and votes, not to collect money completely.

[Ozwest]

So I gather we're going to tie the two "bombs" together. Do we have a theme and goals?

[Menthol Patch]

bump

[ItsTime]

again I never said I do not support anyone who wants to donate on the 30th. Do what you want with your money it is not mine to spend.

But if you trust the campaign, like you said I didn't, we need the money now.

I am seeing 24/7 Rudy ads 24/7 obama ads, 24/7 Richardson ads! I have not seen one Ron Paul ad in a few days. (and yes we are fighting for obama and richardson voters here in New Hampshire)

We need the money NOW!

But donate on the 30th if you wish, it will still be put to good use.



If you truly believe this, why would you then fight those who believe that we should donate on November 30th?

Why can't you just say, "I'm personally not going to give on the 30th, but if folks want to do a November 30th money-bomb, I think that's great!" ?

I'll tell you why - it's because you're claiming now that we're talking about numerous money-bombs, when that is a lie. We're talking about TWO (2) money bombs - one on Nov 30 and one on Dec 16th. You want a quote? Here you go:


Now take it back and say that you'll support anyone who wants to give on Nov. 30th. :mad:

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[Wayne Hammond]

So I gather we're going to tie the two "bombs" together. Do we have a theme and goals?

First goal is to have everyone pledge $100 for Nov 30. (same as the Dec. 16th).

Second goal that was voiced (although not necessarily finalized) is that we attempt to break the $12 million mark on November 30th.

.

[ItsTime]

ps, why are you not behind getting to 9 million tonight? :P

[mtmedlin]

This is such a dumbass idea. To split the event and cause confusion, are you guys retarded? the campaign didnt say that they were out of money, they just wanted to improve the flow. THEY HAVE OVER $10 Million to spend, they are not desperate. If we screw up this next money bomb by dividing it in two or three just because a few people overreacted, I am gonna flip. Does nobody realize that the media doesnt give two craps if we raise a million dollars every week for the next 10 weeks but tey will report non stop over the Christmas breal about Ron Paul raising $10 million in a day. The whole story will be how we did back to back record fundraising. Some people are so damn worried about lighting a sparkler that they forget that everybody comes for the finale. Stick to the plan and stop over thinking.

[Ozwest]

I thought this thread was meant to be constructive, and not the start of another flame war. How about we adjust to the problem at hand, and come up with some solutions?

[Wayne Hammond]

We need the money NOW!

But donate on the 30th if you wish, it will still be put to good use.

Sorry for getting so frustrated about this. We just need a rallying point and a lot of us see Nov 30th as an opportunity to rally to the request of HQ. We're all on the same team and I know we all want what's best for the campaign.

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[ItsTime]

100% agreed... some need a rallying point. Lets do it.


Sorry for getting so frustrated about this. We just need a rallying point and a lot of us see Nov 30th as an opportunity to rally to the request of HQ. We're all on the same team and I know we all want what's best for the campaign.

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[ItsTime]

I kept this thread at the top didnt I? ;)


I thought this thread was meant to be constructive, and not the start of another flame war. How about we adjust to the problem at hand, and come up with some solutions?

[Wayne Hammond]

ps, why are you not behind getting to 9 million tonight? :P

I am, and I already contributed towards that goal today. :) If you read Methol's thread, you'll see that I posted there in support of the donation efforts today.

Less than $20,000 to go... let's go donate folks... 30 minutes to go, EST.

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[Wayne Hammond]

I kept this thread at the top didnt I? ;)

Yeah, you sure did. ;) :p

That's what I like about this grassroots effort - we can flame each other in one post, get mad, then come together after that in support of the greater cause.

It's pretty cool, really. :)

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[mtmedlin]

I thought this thread was meant to be constructive, and not the start of another flame war. How about we adjust to the problem at hand, and come up with some solutions?

I twould be constructive if the idea behind it wasnt destructive. The campaign didnt ask us to change anything, they just asked to increase the flow. ONE bomb that is HUGE will get us FAR more media attention then two weak ones. How can you not see this?

[Ozwest]

First goal is to have everyone pledge $100 for Nov 30. (same as the Dec. 16th).

Second goal that was voiced (although not necessarily finalized) is that we attempt to break the $12 million mark on November 30th.

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If they're both going to be promoted on the same site, we need a theme for the Nov. 30 bomb that ties in with the Dec. 16 bomb. Maybe something like "a storm in a tea cup" or " s storms a brewing." With a little thought we can probably come up with something better.

[ItsTime]

Yup that is the best part about Ron Paul movement. The movement covers many many thoughts. Freedom is popular.


Yeah, you sure did. ;) :p

That's what I like about this grassroots effort - we can flame each other in one post, get mad, then come together after that in support of the greater cause.

It's pretty cool, really. :)

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[Wayne Hammond]

I twould be constructive if the idea behind it wasnt destructive. The campaign didnt ask us to change anything, they just asked to increase the flow. ONE bomb that is HUGE will get us FAR more media attention then two weak ones. How can you not see this?

Thanks for keeping this thread near the top.

It's all about the bump. ;)

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[Wayne Hammond]

If they're both going to be promoted on the same site, we need a theme for the Nov. 30 bomb that ties in with the Dec. 16 bomb. Maybe something like "a storm in a tea cup" or " s storms a brewing." With a little thought we can probably come up with something better.

The more ideas, the better. I think the Nov. 30th efforts can't be hurt by more ideas... so bring 'em on! :)

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[Ozwest]

I twould be constructive if the idea behind it wasnt destructive. The campaign didnt ask us to change anything, they just asked to increase the flow. ONE bomb that is HUGE will get us FAR more media attention then two weak ones. How can you not see this?

I would have preferred that we waited until Dec.16, but sh*t happens, and I think we need to adjust. If Trevor is behind it, I'm atleast willing to give it a go.

[Skeeterbug73]

The more ideas, the better. I think the Nov. 30th efforts can't be hurt by more ideas... so bring 'em on! :)

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It seems like theme has already been decided. Just look at the name of the website. I don't like the theme of this money bomb. It seems to have negative energy. I don't know about this one. I will think about it though.

[TechnoGuyRob]

Bump.

[Ozwest]

I think the Hitlary record was 6.7 million. Our original goal was 10 million. How about we make the goal 3.3 million on Nov. 30, and 6.7 million on Dec.16. Of course, if we beat our goals on either of those days, so much the better.

[Wayne Hammond]

I would have preferred that we waited until Dec.16, but sh*t happens, and I think we need to adjust. If Trevor is behind it, I'm at least willing to give it a go.

Yeah, I'm not 100% behind anything, usually, and I also supported waiting until the 16th...

But I also realize that we are somewhat factionalized by all this, and we're in desperate need of a rallying point after the email from HQ. This idea of Trevor's seemed to fit the bill, so I jumped on the idea.

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[mtmedlin]

I would have preferred that we waited until Dec.16, but sh*t happens, and I think we need to adjust. If Trevor is behind it, I'm atleast willing to give it a go.


giving it a go is when you are doing something that doesnt really matter. Screwing up this drive that has been worked on for weeks, well, that just pisses off the people who have been talking to everyone and promising how huge the event will be. Do you know how hard it is to convert people when all they see from the campaign is disorganization, chicken little reactions and an overall plan that makes less sense. We billed this thing as the mother of all events and now after alot of people have spent time promoting it, we change the forecast of success. Its almost as bad as when we chipped in for an add and then the whole damn thing was changed and most of the people who paid were pissed. This sucks, we should have put it to a vote and let it be debated but no, a few people unilaterally are going to undermine the event that would have had the media talking and building anticipation for the three weeks before the primaries.

The whole point was to get the media to be asking the question "What will Ron Paul do next"

the answer, "who cares...all he did was repeat twice the same performance."

two five million money bombs does not equal 1 ten million bomb

[leonster]

It seems like theme has already been decided. Just look at the name of the website. I don't like the theme of this money bomb. It seems to have negative energy. I don't know about this one. I will think about it though.

I think it's really a valuable idea, as a second look for many Republicans who may have written Paul off after Rudy slammed him at the debates. Paul was RIGHT, but Rudy had the sound bite that many people may have paid more attention to, and said "Yeah the war is right."

Well... presenting a reading list to Rudy, with enough publicity to get it majorly covered--that would at least give people the chance to open their minds and take a second look.

[mtmedlin]

Yeah, I'm not 100% behind anything, usually, and I also supported waiting until the 16th...

But I also realize that we are somewhat factionalized by all this, and we're in desperate need of a rallying point after the email from HQ. This idea of Trevor's seemed to fit the bill, so I jumped on the idea.

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They spent 3.1 million in September. that leaves them close to $11 million. If they double that rate for the next month, then they will still have $4.8 million to get from the 1st of December to the 16th.

If anybody can get a direct quote from the campaign that there is a real chance that they will get anywhere near running out of money by the 16th, I will withdraw my objections and max out for me and my wife on the 30th.

[Ozwest]

giving it a go is when you are doing something that doesnt really matter. Screwing up this drive that has been worked on for weeks, well, that just pisses off the people who have been talking to everyone and promising how huge the event will be. Do you know how hard it is to convert people when all they see from the campaign is disorganization, chicken little reactions and an overall plan that makes less sense. We billed this thing as the mother of all events and now after alot of people have spent time promoting it, we change the forecast of success. Its almost as bad as when we chipped in for an add and then the whole damn thing was changed and most of the people who paid were pissed. This sucks, we should have put it to a vote and let it be debated but no, a few people unitlaterally are going to undermine the event that would have had the media talking and building anticipation for the three weeks before the primaries.

The whole point was to get the media to be asking the question "What will Ron Paul do next"

the answer, "who cares...all he did was repeat twice the same performance."

two five million money bombs does not equal 1 ten million bomb
I can see this going nowhere. I'm going to go grab a six-pack and hopefully everyone will settle down and realize we're on the same team.

[mtmedlin]

I can see this going nowhere. I'm going to go grab a six-pack and hopefully everyone will settle down and realize we're on the same team.

Agreed, we would be on the same team.........If we had one direction. :(

[Original_Intent]

First, Trevor is looking for ideas on how to improve the web site at www.RudysReadingList.com. He's got a temporary site up now, and is looking for our recommendations for a more permanent site.

Second, he needs our help spreading the word.

Third, he needs us to pledge that we will give $100 on Nov 30th (in addition to giving $100 or more on Dec. 16th).


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I disagree with your third point. He is saying that if we can only give on the 30th or the 16th he releases us from our pledge for the 16th and wants us to give all we can on the 30th.

I hate to do it and I havent really decided yet, but I am leaning toward giving on the 30th.

[Wayne Hammond]

If anybody can get a direct quote from the campaign that there is a real chance that they will get anywhere near running out of money by the 16th, I will withdraw my objections and max out for me and my wife on the 30th.

Your request is granted; direct from my email inbox.... from HQ:


November 20, 2007


During the first few days of October, we announced our fundraising goal for the fourth quarter: $12 million raised by December 31.

But there's more: we need to have spent it by then, too.

If we were to raise the entire $12 million in the last week of December, we would meet our fundraising goal for the quarter. But Ron Paul would stand little chance of winning the Republican nomination, because that money would have come in too late.

Time is of the essence. You see, we need to raise money well before we plan to spend it. That's because most of the expenditures that we make need to be paid for weeks in advance. For example, we need to buy crucial airtime for the end of December right now.

The sooner we raise this money, the sooner that we can spread Dr. Paul's message - our message - in the early primary states. Time truly is money.

Fact is, we only have about two weeks to raise money for the early primaries.

If you wait a month from now to donate, your money will only be spent after Iowa caucus-goers and New Hampshire primary voters have made up their minds.

We are rapidly running out of time. The Iowa caucus is just 44 days away. New Hampshire is in 49 days. With so much ground to make up, we can't afford to waste a single day.

As a result, we are spending faster than the rate at which we are raising money. In October alone, we raised $2.8 million, but our campaign spent over $3.1 million.

We cannot afford to wait for bursts of press activity. What we need is sustained attention in the news. What better way to do this than by continuing to raise money at a rapid pace now? We need to keep our momentum going.

Help us win in New Hampshire, Iowa, South Carolina, and Nevada.

Make your most generous contribution as soon as you can: https://www.ronpaul2008.com/donate.

Jonathan Bydlak
Fundraising Director
Ron Paul 2008

I'ts really not about "running out of money" - it's about maximizing the advertising efforts in December, prior to the early primaries.

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[Wayne Hammond]

I disagree with your third point. He is saying that if we can only give on the 30th or the 16th he releases us from our pledge for the 16th and wants us to give all we can on the 30th.

I hate to do it and I havent really decided yet, but I am leaning toward giving on the 30th.

You're right. He did say that. My mistake. :o

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[Midnight77]

too many moneybombs dilutes the media effect...

better to just give as much as you can in next 3 weeks and unload on 12/16...

id rather have the psycological impact of 10 million on 12-16 as opposed to 9.5...

If you can afford to give twice, please do it.

If not, I would concentrate everything you have on the 16th. We must beat Hillary's total at all costs, and I really would like to see us at $10 Million for that day.

[Sematary]

Ok - I made the pledge. I'll give exactly $100 on the 30th and then something on the order of $200 or so on the 16th. :)

[Tidewise]

DONE!

On November 30, 2007 I will donate as much as I was going to on December 16, 2007. And I am going to donate even more on December 16, 2007.

NOW IS THE TIME!

YOUR LIVES! YOUR FORTUNE! YOUR SACRED HONOR!

YOUR CHRISTMAS GIFTS!

[mtmedlin]

Your request is granted; direct from my email inbox.... from HQ:



I'ts really not about "running out of money" - it's about maximizing the advertising efforts in December, prior to the early primaries.

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No where does it say they are running out. Your next argument will be that I dont know better then the candidates campaign. My question to you is "Since when has the campaign ever done better then the grassroots"

Their whole premise was to raise $12 million in the quarter, its a done deal. We arent going to raise $12 million in the last week. we have already given them $9 million of it and are ahead of their request by a million. We were only to have given $8 mill by this point. So as I said (and please dont repsond with the same crap that I have in my mailbox) find me anybody at the campaign that says there running out or even low.

[Wayne Hammond]

Ok - I made the pledge. I'll give exactly $100 on the 30th and then something on the order of $200 or so on the 16th. :)

Cool. Way to go Sematary... did you get your ebay payment yet?

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[Sematary]

Cool. Way to go Sematary... did you get your paypal payment yet?

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Yes. :)
As I said - all going to the campaign anyway. :)

[Sematary]

No where does it say they are running out. Your next argument will be that I dont know better then the candidates campaign. My question to you is "Since when has the campaign ever done better then the grassroots"

Their whole premise was to raise $12 million in the quarter, its a done deal. We arent going to raise $12 million in the last week. we have already given them $9 million of it and are ahead of their request by a million. We were only to have given $8 mill by this point. So as I said (and please dont repsond with the same crap that I have in my mailbox) find me anybody at the campaign that says there running out or even low.

I don't see any reason for arguments on this. Donate to either/or or both if you want/can
Nobody is, or should be, forcing people to behave in a specific way. If the campaigns idea is that they need to expand their advertising faster than they expected because we are GROWING faster than they expected, then I will respect that - all in man. I don't trust the campaign implicitly but I do trust them to use our money wisely and hopefully not to frugally (my biggest concern). If they want to spend faster, I am behind that and will do what I can to help but I'm still going to do everything I can to make December 16 a show topper! :)

[BIG_J]

Well; I have been holding off posting about this for a few days; as I needed time to chill out about the email. I didn't visit the forums, or dailypaul.com...anything...just myself and some beers...

You know what; the campaign wouldn't be asking for it if they didn't need it. They know that we just gave everything we could just over two weeks ago. That means they need it; to win New Hampshire; and possibly Iowa. I have 3 paychecks between now and the 16th. I will contribute on both days; because honestly; I don't see another chance like this for another decade at least.

For Freedom; for Liberty. I certainly can't take it to the grave.

[RonPaulStreetTeam]

or just donate now and not wait for orders

[Wayne Hammond]

No where does it say they are running out.

I never said HQ was "running out of money" and the email did not claim that they are "running out of money"... that was your insertion.

As I said before, things have now changed, HQ has more money in the bank now - and as a result, they have new options and new plans and a greater vision, due to our previous money-bomb efforts.

The point was that it is about maximizing the advertising efforts in December, prior to the early primaries.

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[microchip]

Hmmm ... in some ways I find this entire discussion bizarre.

Why is anyone talking about how much is "enough" money? That's not even the right question. We need to get as many supporters as possible to give as much money as they are able to. The more money they get, the better for the campaign.

Rudy ended Q3 with over $16 million in the bank. Romney has basically however much money he wants to loan his campaign. Huckabee seems to have the backing of at least some of the MSM. The only way Ron Paul can counter that is by advertising as much as he can, getting his name out so that his name recognition improves.

I would expect the campaign would spend as much as possible on advertising. There's no such thing as "extra money" for the campaign. Anything they get I have to assume they will spend it. The goal of $12 million for the quarter is not really accurate. The real goal is as much damn money as they can get. They need to get his name out over, and over, and over again so that he "appears to people" to be a top-tier candidate (I know he is, but if people don't see it that way it doesn't matter). The more folks see him on TV, or hear him on the radio, the more it will be cemented in people's minds that his campaign is for real, he is serious, and he can win.

I am going to donate on the 30th, and on the 16th, and if I can afford it one other time as well. I hope yall do the same. If you can't, then that's ok too - I hope you give what you are able to, whenever you are able.

And I really don't think the idea of another money bomb on the 30th takes away anything from the December 16th thing. If he continues to gain support, then any donations "lost" for the 16th by people who donated earlier will be made up by newcomers. And that HAS TO HAPPEN. And I think it will happen.

- Chip

[Wayne Hammond]

I have 3 paychecks between now and the 16th. I will contribute on both days; because honestly; I don't see another chance like this for another decade at least.

For Freedom; for Liberty. I certainly can't take it to the grave.

There you go, folks. Good post. That's the bottom line. We need to pull out all the stops on the 30th and the 16th.

.

[Sematary]

Hmmm ... in some ways I find this entire discussion bizarre.

Why is anyone talking about how much is "enough" money? That's not even the right question. We need to get as many supporters as possible to give as much money as they are able to. The more money they get, the better for the campaign.

Rudy ended Q3 with over $16 million in the bank. Romney has basically however much money he wants to loan his campaign. Huckabee seems to have the backing of at least some of the MSM. The only way Ron Paul can counter that is by advertising as much as he can, getting his name out so that his name recognition improves.

I would expect the campaign would spend as much as possible on advertising. There's no such thing as "extra money" for the campaign. Anything they get I have to assume they will spend it. The goal of $12 million for the quarter is not really accurate. The real goal is as much damn money as they can get. They need to get his name out over, and over, and over again so that he "appears to people" to be a top-tier candidate (I know he is, but if people don't see it that way it doesn't matter). The more folks see him on TV, or hear him on the radio, the more it will be cemented in people's minds that his campaign is for real, he is serious, and he can win.

I am going to donate on the 30th, and on the 16th, and if I can afford it one other time as well. I hope yall do the same. If you can't, then that's ok too - I hope you give what you are able to, whenever you are able.

And I really don't think the idea of another money bomb on the 30th takes away anything from the December 16th thing. If he continues to gain support, then any donations "lost" for the 16th by people who donated earlier will be made up by newcomers. And that HAS TO HAPPEN. And I think it will happen.

- Chip

That is one of the best arguments I've seen over this issue. +1

[deedles]

Hello there,

You recently requested an email subscription to Rudys Reading List. We can't wait to send the updates you want via email, so please click the following link to activate your subscription immediately:
________________

I'm in!!

[Wayne Hammond]

Hmmm ... in some ways I find this entire discussion bizarre.

Ha, you must be new here... there are far more bizarre discussions around here if you only take the time to look! ;) :D


And I really don't think the idea of another money bomb on the 30th takes away anything from the December 16th thing. If he continues to gain support, then any donations "lost" for the 16th by people who donated earlier will be made up by newcomers. And that HAS TO HAPPEN. And I think it will happen.

- Chip

Well said. Agree 100%

.

[Shaun]

Dec 16th is the date that can make history. Nothing else matters. The WORLDWIDE media attention will be worth 8-10% for RP in NH in the last two weeks of December. Think about what happened after the 5th Nov...
The "campaign" has it wrong on this one.
We'll stay focused on the 16th and donate thousands in place of hundreds.
The "Rudys reading site" is a poor image to the world, this is a rushed and not fully thought through concept. That's clear at first glance. Please do NOT promote that link or that date to the media. That will hurt us as it will confuse the opinion leaders who are waiting to launch RP as a hero or forget him.
If we raise 10m on Dec 16th there is a good chance our man can go to the nomination. There will be 5,000 stories on Google if he does this and that's right..ON A SINGLE DAY is VITAL. This is a soundbite world and we have to play that game. He needs to raise the 10m in ONE event on ONE day and not over two events.
All of this said, this will self select out; Another 500k may be raised on Nov 30th but their is so much focus and energy + awareness of Dec 16th that I think Trevor is correct, it really can't be stopped at this point.
All I want to do is say...*U** YOU FRANK..on Dec 17th

[Corydoras]

This is like the Russian bishops who sat in solemn conclave in Moscow in 1917 arguing over whether the Virgin Mary had blue eyes or brown eyes... arguing right up until the revolutionary forces overran them and killed them.

Like these discussions over whether to donate now or later are going to sway anybody's mind anyway already.

[Wayne Hammond]

Hello there,

You recently requested an email subscription to Rudys Reading List. We can't wait to send the updates you want via email, so please click the following link to activate your subscription immediately:
________________

I'm in!!

Way to go, Deedles!

.

[Wayne Hammond]

This is like the Russian bishops who sat in solemn conclave in Moscow in 1917 arguing over whether the Virgin Mary had blue eyes or brown eyes... arguing right up until the revolutionary forces overran them and killed them..

Just so you know, she had brown eyes. ;)

Glad we got that straight. :D Now, on with the R[EVOL]UTION.

.

[DRV45N05]

Alright, guys:

Promote this on your Meetup groups and whereever else you can!

Here's to November 30 AND December 16!

[francisco]

A PROPOSAL FOR AN ALTERNATIVE METHOD OF PLEDGING $100 ON NOVEMBER 30

Instead of pledges to donate $100 on Nov.30th, How about getting pledges to donate $10 each and every day until Nov. 30 and / or Dec. 16th; or $10 each day until $100 has been contributed? (Separate checkoffs or radio buttons could be provided)?

This proposal has several virtues:

1) Keeps people involved and interested each day. Every day they will be watching the number of donations rise.

2) Builds interest factor, seeing the number of individual donations climb day by day

3) Establishes a new metric for a record (number of individual donations in a day) for media attention. As we reach record number of individual donations, the stage is set for media attention each day for yet another new record! The gift that keeps on giving!

4) Generates same amount of money by target end date for early pledgers, but campaign gets access to funds quicker.

5) As enthusiasm builds, pledgers will have reinforcement to increase their donation level or extend daily donations past the original target date they selected.

6) Allows separate focused attention on Nov.30 and Dec.16 as the consumate days for each contributor to make maximum feasible donation to achieve total funds raised records.

7) Allows media attention by the Nov.28 debates. Record numbers of donors correlate with high level of participation by Ron Paul supporters in video question submissions.

8) Avoids repeating the original problem: people hoarding dollars until the designated moneybomb day, starving campaign of reliable continuity of funds

The official campaign could facilitate the goal by providing at the donation site an option to authorize peridic contributions by credit card. This makes the actual donation automatic and easy for the contributor. Other campaigns have done this (albeit typically for monthly not daily contributions).

A promotional tagline like "STAND UP AND BE COUNTED" would, I think, key in well with this concept.

[Original_Intent]

Way to go Trevor, that's making lemons out of lemonade. I still think 5 million on the 30th and 5 million on the 16th is gonna be decent media on the 30th and not juch on the 16th, when we need it more.

Now if it is 3 million on the 30th and we still hit 10 million on the 16th (due to all the new subscribers like we are hoping happens) then Iwill gladly eat crow. I really admire Trevor for going in a positive direction with this and I hope it works out like we all hope it does, but if we get an impressive $ 6 million on the 16th instead of the mindblowing and media shattering 10 million on the 16th - I will stand by that this was the biggest snafu of the campaign to date.

[NinjaPirate]

We're crunched for time on this, aren't we?? We only have a week to promote this. I won't be able to donate $100 on the 30th, but I support the idea. How can we rally that many people on such short notice?

[Shaun]

GUYS WE HAVE NO MARGIN FOR ERROR. STAY FOCUSED ON DEC 16TH.
I looked over the message from our fund raising director that started all the trouble, one line jumped out at me...

" If you wait a month from now to donate, your money will only be spent after Iowa caucus-goers and New Hampshire primary voters have made up their minds"

I have spent twenty years in marketing and PR, a lot of it here in Hollywood, and I can tell you that if we derail the greatest single event in political fundraising history based on that "belief" of his this will go down as the turning point for this campaign. He has absolutely no base in fact to suppose that many people will have their minds "made up" two to three weeks out. Total BS and Fantasy Island stuff. Look at History if you need to..Clinton, Kerry, Carter, Reagan. Comments like that show me how straight laced and conventional this guy is. I have HUNDREDS of people working for me in 26 countries, far more than the RP campaign, if one of my guys EVER sent out a message like that to my MARKETING people ( in this case that would be all of us..) he would be terminated. Instantly. By me. In a rage. Justifiable.
Those of you who think it's OK to raise 4m on two days just don't get how the media work. They wont' cover it. They just won't, already been done, they have that t shirt. Fundraisers should stay OUT of PR and Marketing. I do not believe for a single moment that Ron Paul knew that email was going out and my advice to everyone is to stay focused on the tea-party event.
If we raise 10m on that day it will be a shot heard around the world.
If we want to get RP into the White House it's time to take FULL, END2END responsibility to get this done and a big part of that is to recognize when execs are competent and not competent.
Oh, yeah..and while I'm at it..***K YOU FRANK..

[Mark]

Well that's a good idea.

Don't get stuck in a rut. Donate a buck, but not in one chunk.

Just a little save, for the hump, on Tea Party Day, for a bump.

[RonPaulGetsIt]

GUYS WE HAVE NO MARGIN FOR ERROR. STAY FOCUSED ON DEC 16TH.
I looked over the message from our fund raising director that started all the trouble, one line jumped out at me...

" If you wait a month from now to donate, your money will only be spent after Iowa caucus-goers and New Hampshire primary voters have made up their minds"

I have spent twenty years in marketing and PR, a lot of it here in Hollywood, and I can tell you that if we derail the greatest single event in political fundraising history based on that "belief" of his this will go down as the turning point for this campaign. He has absolutely no base in fact to suppose that many people will have their minds "made up" two to three weeks out. Total BS and Fantasy Island stuff. Look at History if you need to..Clinton, Kerry, Carter, Reagan. Comments like that show me how straight laced and conventional this guy is. I have HUNDREDS of people working for me in 26 countries, far more than the RP campaign, if one of my guys EVER sent out a message like that to my MARKETING people ( in this case that would be all of us..) he would be terminated. Instantly. By me. In a rage. Justifiable.
Those of you who think it's OK to raise 4m on two days just don't get how the media work. They wont' cover it. They just won't, already been done, they have that t shirt. Fundraisers should stay OUT of PR and Marketing. I do not believe for a single moment that Ron Paul knew that email was going out and my advice to everyone is to stay focused on the tea-party event.
If we raise 10m on that day it will be a shot heard around the world.
If we want to get RP into the White House it's time to take FULL, END2END responsibility to get this done and a big part of that is to recognize when execs are competent and not competent.
Oh, yeah..and while I'm at it..***K YOU FRANK..

why do you keep posting the same thing over and over - enough already - i personaly think donate early and we get more advertising and the teaparty becomes even bigger - 18000 donors is nothing - just donate all you can now and the campaign will advertise and we will get that up to 100,000

[Benaiah]

See, this is the problem with centralizing the money bomb. In other words, instead of having multiple websites for the 16th, we chose just Teparty07.com. What that did was made "Trevor" the leader, so now his opinion is more important than everyone else's.

I'm only donating on the 16th. You guys are flakey.

[robert4rp08]

Donating to the campaign is NOT about making the news (we did that already anyway); it's about helping the campaign get the good doctor's message out. If they say that they need money NOW then I believe them.

I will still donate on the 16th. It just won't be as much. THEY NEED MONEY NOW!

[kmforpaul]

Everyone...
It all boils down to this:

Priority #1: Teaparty 07 15th/16th

Priority #2: Nov. 30


First off, we cannot ditch the Teaparty. Too many people are already planning on it; the wheels have been set in motion. Second, the campaign needs the money now. If they could wait for the Teaparty then they would have not sent the e-mail. It's their way of saying: HEY WE NEED A MONEYBOMB SOON!

We should respect, and therefore support, Trevor's solution on the 30th.

Moreover, let's all try to remember why these money bombs work so well. It gives us priceless media coverage. Remember the 5th? For about a week all the MSM's were taking a second glance at Ron Paul's campaign. More importantly, these money bombs get people off the fence and DONATE. The 5th accounts for a third of all donations this quarter. But, people will not donate in small moneybombs. It is self-replicating cycle. One person sees the movement of millions of dollars towards Dr. Paul and they want to be apart of it. Another person sees that donation and etc.

In conclusion, maybe Trevor can make this 30th thing work. I think a million dollars (because of the short notice) would be a tremendous success for everyone. The campaign would appreciate it. It will give them elbow-room to work with until the Teaparty.

[KewlRonduderules]

See, this is the problem with centralizing the money bomb. In other words, instead of having multiple websites for the 16th, we chose just Teparty07.com. What that did was made "Trevor" the leader, so now his opinion is more important than everyone else's.

I'm only donating on the 16th. You guys are flakey.

The media knows his name and he has all the contacts there.

Trevor has done an excellent job seeking others feedback.

He did a poll in case you did not know- others agreed to another moneybomb and the majority chose November 30th.

That is why he did it.

;)

[Skeeterbug73]

See, this is the problem with centralizing the money bomb. In other words, instead of having multiple websites for the 16th, we chose just Teparty07.com. What that did was made "Trevor" the leader, so now his opinion is more important than everyone else's.

I'm only donating on the 16th. You guys are flakey.

I agree. I'm out of here until the 16th. Have a Happy Thanksgiving.

[vertesc]

I'm in - pledged already. We can't have too many "money bomb" events. The media only pays attention when we make big coin. I think a big donation day on Nov 30th could work for us

- it's three weeks after Nov 5th. Money has recharged since then.
- it's a payday for anyone on a biweekly or monthly pay schedule.

By the same rationale, Dec 16th:

- is two weeks after Nov 30th. People on hourly paychecks have some recharge time.
- is immediately after a payday for anyone on a biweekly pay schedule.

I think we can make a good 2 or 3 million on the 30th, without detracting from the Dec 16th massive bomb. Besides, if the media has to report RP making the one-day fundraising record, then three weeks later that he made his "over ambitious" 12 million goal, then two weeks later that he broke the ALL TIME fundraising record... Ron would be the "big money" candidate for Q4!

[Mark37snj]

Dec 16th is the date that can make history. Nothing else matters. The WORLDWIDE media attention will be worth 8-10% for RP in NH in the last two weeks of December. Think about what happened after the 5th Nov...
The "campaign" has it wrong on this one.
We'll stay focused on the 16th and donate thousands in place of hundreds.
The "Rudys reading site" is a poor image to the world, this is a rushed and not fully thought through concept. That's clear at first glance. Please do NOT promote that link or that date to the media. That will hurt us as it will confuse the opinion leaders who are waiting to launch RP as a hero or forget him.
If we raise 10m on Dec 16th there is a good chance our man can go to the nomination. There will be 5,000 stories on Google if he does this and that's right..ON A SINGLE DAY is VITAL. This is a soundbite world and we have to play that game. He needs to raise the 10m in ONE event on ONE day and not over two events.
All of this said, this will self select out; Another 500k may be raised on Nov 30th but their is so much focus and energy + awareness of Dec 16th that I think Trevor is correct, it really can't be stopped at this point.
All I want to do is say...*U** YOU FRANK..on Dec 17th

I Second this and I will not promote November 30th in my Meetup group. December 16th has the youtube videos, it has the theme, it has Ron Paul mentioning it on TV, it has the website, it has the subscribers, it has the momentum! It has everything, why would you want to mess with that? A small money bomb like the Beat Huckabee Day was great, grassroots, but this has a website and is taking subscriptions just like the 16th. That makes it a bad idea.

I will say one other thing...these big Money Bombs are getting more money out of me than the campaign would normally get!!! Its exciting, it makes you want to give more, and if it has that affect on me then it probably has the same affect on others. No rah rah just donate more talk will get people to donate more then they are willing, but being a part of a November 5th like event will. It is also drawing alot of new first time donators. December 16th is their "Welcome Aboard, this is what it feels like to be a Ron Paul supporter", they will see what their particitation did on the news and they will love that feeling. November 30th will not significantly enhance Ron Puals funds, but it may significantly undermine it. What would have been the effect on November 5th if we had a Holloween bomb? On total raised, lack of press, lack of good video clips, youtube clips, lack of Ron Paul interviews? Think of everything we gained due to the 5th, everything we gained, not just the money. Please don't mess with December 16th.

[gworrel]

I will say one other thing...these big Money Bombs are getting more money out of me than the campaign would normally get!!! Its exciting, it makes you want to give more, and if it has that affect on me then it probably has the same affect on others. No rah rah just donate more talk will get people to donate more then they are willing, but being a part of a November 5th like event will. It is also drawing alot of new first time donators.

Your statement above is EXACTLY why we should have a November 30 money bomb. It is like you are saying "it works too well, please don't have another one." Waiting 6 weeks after November 5th for the next one was a serious mistake. Money bombs are a fantastic fund raising tool. We should use them.

I cannot understand why people would say the campaign should not need the money now. The real question is CAN they use the money to increase the likelihood of getting Ron Paul the nomination? If the answer is yes then we should use every tool at our disposal to help make that happen. November 30 is over 3 weeks after the 5th. Is is more than two weeks away from the 16th. It is the perfect time to have another money bomb.

As you stated above, it brings out a lot of first time donors. Why let those first time donors wait until December 16th when we can get most of them to donate on both days?

New donors on November 30th mean more repeat donors for December 16th which will also bring additional new donors.

Few predicted November 5th would do as well as it did. We can do well on both November 30 and December 16th. You just have to believe and make it happen.

[LibertyEagle]

I don't agree. If you overuse something, it becomes like the Boy Who Cried Wolf. People lose interest.

[LibertyEagle]

GUYS WE HAVE NO MARGIN FOR ERROR. STAY FOCUSED ON DEC 16TH.
I looked over the message from our fund raising director that started all the trouble, one line jumped out at me...

" If you wait a month from now to donate, your money will only be spent after Iowa caucus-goers and New Hampshire primary voters have made up their minds"

I have spent twenty years in marketing and PR, a lot of it here in Hollywood, and I can tell you that if we derail the greatest single event in political fundraising history based on that "belief" of his this will go down as the turning point for this campaign. He has absolutely no base in fact to suppose that many people will have their minds "made up" two to three weeks out. Total BS and Fantasy Island stuff. Look at History if you need to..Clinton, Kerry, Carter, Reagan. Comments like that show me how straight laced and conventional this guy is. I have HUNDREDS of people working for me in 26 countries, far more than the RP campaign, if one of my guys EVER sent out a message like that to my MARKETING people ( in this case that would be all of us..) he would be terminated. Instantly. By me. In a rage. Justifiable.
Those of you who think it's OK to raise 4m on two days just don't get how the media work. They wont' cover it. They just won't, already been done, they have that t shirt. Fundraisers should stay OUT of PR and Marketing. I do not believe for a single moment that Ron Paul knew that email was going out and my advice to everyone is to stay focused on the tea-party event.
If we raise 10m on that day it will be a shot heard around the world.
If we want to get RP into the White House it's time to take FULL, END2END responsibility to get this done and a big part of that is to recognize when execs are competent and not competent.


+1

[Mark37snj]

Your statement above is EXACTLY why we should have a November 30 money bomb. It is like you are saying "it works too well, please don't have another one." Waiting 6 weeks after November 5th for the next one was a serious mistake. Money bombs are a fantastic fund raising tool. We should use them.

I cannot understand why people would say the campaign should not need the money now. The real question is CAN they use the money to increase the likelihood of getting Ron Paul the nomination? If the answer is yes then we should use every tool at our disposal to help make that happen. November 30 is over 3 weeks after the 5th. Is is more than two weeks away from the 16th. It is the perfect time to have another money bomb.

As you stated above, it brings out a lot of first time donors. Why let those first time donors wait until December 16th when we can get most of them to donate on both days?

New donors on November 30th mean more repeat donors for December 16th which will also bring additional new donors.

Few predicted November 5th would do as well as it did. We can do well on both November 30 and December 16th. You just have to believe and make it happen.

Thats alot of wishful thinking and magic wand waving there. You took a piece of my post that you wanted to use but disregarded the rest. Of course they can use the money now but ALL the pros and cons of a second money bomb only 2 weeks away from the 16th is unwise. There is such a thing as overkill and undermining. Again you have to take EVERYTHING into consideration. What will be the effect of a Spectacular 10 million money bomb be compared to one that just beat the last one? Medai attention, Ron Paul interviews, YouTubes, etc. If you want to raise money fine, just don't try to emulate December 16th, no website, no subscribers, no YouTubes, etc. Grassroot money bomb, fine, but again the free media attention of a HUGE December 16th is worth 10 times more than what November 30th will bring. And I ask this question of all the people who will donate on the 30th, are you going to be donating less on the December 16th? Any money donated on the 30th can be added to that donated on the 16th, so any money donated on the 30th is TAKING MONEY AWAY FROM THE 16th.

[constituent]

we need to quit watering down the money bomb... for real folks, i know you all want your name read on CNN or whatever, but you're christmas gift, broken the first morning from overuse.

just donate your fuggin money. hang on to your hundred bucks for the sixteenth and give them five or ten now, tomorrow, whenever you can...

but seriously folks, this is clearly a symptom of the sorta "top-down" mental framework that so many feel most comfortable functioning w/in.

doesn't work, i'll letcha know.

Are many of you folks into art or music? In the art and music communities you always have these johnny come latelies looking for the next act to just pour over. It makes them feel like they belong. They latch on to this one artist or one band for a few months, start acting exclusive, and take something that was good (or at least had something to it) and they run it into the ground over promoting it (really, promoting themselves).

This sort of thing is what is hapenning to Trevor Lyman and I get the feeling that he's probably getting about sick of it. I remember when sword of shanara was allowed to just hang out and post w/ us... now i don't think the poor guy can get online w/out people slamming him w/ requests for their cause (just buy a god damn html book already).

Everyone, if you can't not (intentional double negative) come on here and start flapping off you jaws (fingers), telling people when to do what and when they should not, just piss-off.

But seriously, some of you seem bound and determined to turn this wild beast into a one trick pony, cut it out!

[bolidew]

We should ONLY GET BEHIND Ron Paul.

Donate NOW if you can!

[gworrel]

Thats alot of wishful thinking and magic wand waving there. You took a piece of my post that you wanted to use but disregarded the rest. Of course they can use the money now but ALL the pros and cons of a second money bomb only 2 weeks away from the 16th is unwise. There is such a thing as overkill and undermining. Again you have to take EVERYTHING into consideration. What will be the effect of a Spectacular 10 million money bomb be compared to one that just beat the last one? Medai attention, Ron Paul interviews, YouTubes, etc. If you want to raise money fine, just don't try to emulate December 16th, no website, no subscribers, no YouTubes, etc. Grassroot money bomb, fine, but again the free media attention of a HUGE December 16th is worth 10 times more than what November 30th will bring. And I ask this question of all the people who will donate on the 30th, are you going to be donating less on the December 16th? Any money donated on the 30th can be added to that donated on the 16th, so any money donated on the 30th is TAKING MONEY AWAY FROM THE 16th.

I took a piece of your post and disregarded the rest because the rest of your post disregarded the piece that I used. You made the argument better than I have heard it before about why we should have more money bombs.

Taking EVERYTHING into consideration is why we need to raise significant money before the 16th.

I don't believe that having a 10 million dollar day on the 16th will have all the effects people are saying it will. Sure it will be reported, but it will be "Well they did it again. Those Paultards sure know how to raise money. However, the polls tell us that they just don't know how to get voters."

A huge money bomb will get lots of news like the last one did and get us lots of name recognition among news junkies. Joe Typical will still not know who Ron Paul is because he is paying scant attention to the news.

Radio and TV advertising is critical to getting Ron Paul's message out there to those who are not paying attention. Ron Paul's real message, not the message as the news media distorts it. The campaign recognizes this and tells us they need money sooner than December 16th in order to run enough advertising in the early primary states to achieve maximum results.

If you are willing to bet that the campaign strategists don't know what they are talking about, that they are lying to us, that they are incompetent, and that you know better how to get Ron Paul nominated then keep your focus on December 16th.

If you think they might know something you don't then why not help make November 30th a success? Why not make that the spectacular day? When we do that then it will be time to make December 16th another spectacular day.

The stated goal on December 16th was to get people to donate $100. Why is donating $100 on November 30th and then another $100 on December 16th taking money away from anything? Based on my rarely used private school math skills, it adds up to a significant gain for the campaign and makes it that much more likely that we win in the early primaries.

Doing well in the early primaries trumps all money bombs by an order of magnitude. The money bombs are a tool, not the end goal.

[yoshimaroka]

It comes down to this:

December 16th money bomb only = 2-3 days of national media coverage.

November 30th money bomb = millions more to buy ads that will replayed a lot in the most important states for a couple of weeks.


Which is more important?

The official campaign made a major mistake about not communicating this when we were planning for December 16th, because now we're arguing instead of concentrating on November 30th.

[maxmerkel]

stop watering down the boston tea party !!!

[Mark37snj]

I took a piece of your post and disregarded the rest because the rest of your post disregarded the piece that I used. You made the argument better than I have heard it before about why we should have more money bombs.

Taking EVERYTHING into consideration is why we need to raise significant money before the 16th.

I don't believe that having a 10 million dollar day on the 16th will have all the effects people are saying it will. Sure it will be reported, but it will be "Well they did it again. Those Paultards sure know how to raise money. However, the polls tell us that they just don't know how to get voters."

A huge money bomb will get lots of news like the last one did and get us lots of name recognition among news junkies. Joe Typical will still not know who Ron Paul is because he is paying scant attention to the news.

Radio and TV advertising is critical to getting Ron Paul's message out there to those who are not paying attention. Ron Paul's real message, not the message as the news media distorts it. The campaign recognizes this and tells us they need money sooner than December 16th in order to run enough advertising in the early primary states to achieve maximum results.

If you are willing to bet that the campaign strategists don't know what they are talking about, that they are lying to us, that they are incompetent, and that you know better how to get Ron Paul nominated then keep your focus on December 16th.

If you think they might know something you don't then why not help make November 30th a success? Why not make that the spectacular day? When we do that then it will be time to make December 16th another spectacular day.

The stated goal on December 16th was to get people to donate $100. Why is donating $100 on November 30th and then another $100 on December 16th taking money away from anything? Based on my rarely used private school math skills, it adds up to a significant gain for the campaign and makes it that much more likely that we win in the early primaries.

Doing well in the early primaries trumps all money bombs by an order of magnitude. The money bombs are a tool, not the end goal.


So you think the campaign advisors are all wise. Last time I checked they had nothing to do with November 5th. So if they are all wise and did not need our advice or help and they know everything and are always right and we know nothing and are always wrong then why didn't they organize the 5th or the 16th? The campaign is NOT all wise! Im not saying their incompetent, contrary, I think they are very competent, but if they missed organizing a November 5th and December 16th, then how can you say you KNOW they are right about everything? But the point is not whether the campaign could use more money sooner, the point IS "will November 30th undermine December 16th?". IT WILL, PERIOD!!!

You said "Why is donating $100 on November 30th and then another $100 on December 16th taking money away from anything? " Well if your dead set on only donating 100 dollars on the 16th then there will be no effect by donating on the 30th. Myself and alot of other will be donating more than $100, as much as we can afford! http://www.ronpaulforums.com/search.php?searchid=558204 So donating on the 30th WILL take away from the 16th. It makes sense for YOU to donate on both days because you will be donating $100 on both, and it makes sense for US to only donate on the 16th because we will be donating more, all we can afford. But getting others to donate on the 30th WILL decrease the amount on the 16th no matter how you spin it and any advertisement for the 30th is advertisement that December 16th could be getting. And again, just imagine what The Ron Paul Revolution would look like IF we didn't have November 5th!!!!

And finally... Incredible Spectacular December 16th > Spectacular November 30th & Spectacular December 16th

PS My replies are meant to be respectful, Im not trying to come across rude or disrespectful, we are after all, all Ron Paul Patriots!!!!!!

[Bumnah]

stop bickering. if you want to donate just on the 16th, then just donate then. if you can donate on the 30th, then donate then. if you can donate both times great.

who cares, he needs $. give him some now or some later. forget about raising x amount just on 1 day.

[yoshimaroka]

But the point is not whether the campaign could use more money sooner, the point IS "will November 30th undermine December 16th?". IT WILL, PERIOD!!!
And finally... Incredible Spectacular December 16th > Spectacular November 30th & Spectacular December 16th[/B]

I would argue that December 16th undermines the need to have a lot of advertisements in the do or die states ASAP, not after they have their primaries.

December 16th money bomb will generate national coverage for 2-3 days: brief mentions on national and local news as we've already seen.
November 30th moneybomb will guarantee blanket advertising in the key states. This will reach all of the important voters

Also note that it was the tv/radio ads that drove up Paul's polling percentage before November 5th came along.


Donate as you wish. I'm just saying it'd be real great if everyone chips in on the 30th AND the 16th. If anything, it should motivate us to recruit more people.

[FreedomLover]

He still gets the same amount of money whenever you donate, it's just better to get it to them sooner than later.

[Second_Tier_My_Ass]

the main goal right now is to win the primaries. the reason why we have money bombs is to support this goal. whether or not those money bombs are as awesome as we would like is irrelevant.

obviously, the ron paul campaign feels that they will need money sooner than our planned december 16 money bomb, and that they need it in order to win the early primary states. they don't care about what would be the most awesome thing to do, or what would give us the most instant publicity. winning is all that matters. if they say they need more funds for early advertising, i think it would be ridiculous for us to say they're bluffing.

a november 30th money bomb should definitely happen. if it detracts from the december 16 money bomb, who cares? the campaign believes that having a "mediocre" nov. 30 in addition to a "mediocre" dec. 16 will give ron paul a better chance to win than only having one december 16 money bomb, even if that money bomb is the largest in history.

i have a feeling though that even if we have a november 30 money bomb, the one on december 16 will still be astonishing. i don't see how we could possibly deny the campaign of what they claim to need. it's crazy to think that some people might be more fanatical about huge money bombs than they are about ron paul winning. yes, money bombs are exciting. but so in ron paul winning. you decide which is more important.

[Mark]

.

I think the fact that everyone has risen up and answered the challenge
to donate as you can,

while just putting a few dollars away a week, a couple less drinks,
to save enough for Dec 16th, for The Party of Tea,

is just great!

.
What could be more perfect than replenishing the till
as the campaign approved by Ron Paul gets the bill?

.
Maybe that's "what more" we can do.


Spend less save more, donate a bit as it comes in the door.

.

[ClockwiseSpark]

GUYS WE HAVE NO MARGIN FOR ERROR. STAY FOCUSED ON DEC 16TH.
I looked over the message from our fund raising director that started all the trouble, one line jumped out at me...

" If you wait a month from now to donate, your money will only be spent after Iowa caucus-goers and New Hampshire primary voters have made up their minds"

I have spent twenty years in marketing and PR, a lot of it here in Hollywood, and I can tell you that if we derail the greatest single event in political fundraising history based on that "belief" of his this will go down as the turning point for this campaign. He has absolutely no base in fact to suppose that many people will have their minds "made up" two to three weeks out. Total BS and Fantasy Island stuff. Look at History if you need to..Clinton, Kerry, Carter, Reagan. Comments like that show me how straight laced and conventional this guy is. I have HUNDREDS of people working for me in 26 countries, far more than the RP campaign, if one of my guys EVER sent out a message like that to my MARKETING people ( in this case that would be all of us..) he would be terminated. Instantly. By me. In a rage. Justifiable.
Those of you who think it's OK to raise 4m on two days just don't get how the media work. They wont' cover it. They just won't, already been done, they have that t shirt. Fundraisers should stay OUT of PR and Marketing. I do not believe for a single moment that Ron Paul knew that email was going out and my advice to everyone is to stay focused on the tea-party event.
If we raise 10m on that day it will be a shot heard around the world.
If we want to get RP into the White House it's time to take FULL, END2END responsibility to get this done and a big part of that is to recognize when execs are competent and not competent.
Oh, yeah..and while I'm at it..***K YOU FRANK..

I'm with you.


***K YOU FRANK

[Mark37snj]

I would argue that December 16th undermines the need to have a lot of advertisements in the do or die states ASAP, not after they have their primaries.

December 16th money bomb will generate national coverage for 2-3 days: brief mentions on national and local news as we've already seen.
November 30th moneybomb will guarantee blanket advertising in the key states. This will reach all of the important voters

Also note that it was the tv/radio ads that drove up Paul's polling percentage before November 5th came along.


Donate as you wish. I'm just saying it'd be real great if everyone chips in on the 30th AND the 16th. If anything, it should motivate us to recruit more people.

Really, how much are your expecting to raise. There is only 8 days to advertise. They act like if we all agree to have it, it will be another November 5th and cure all our ills and win the election. If we don't "The Sky Is Falling" and we are finished. This election will NOT be determined by what happens on the 30th. And anyone who talks in such absolutes..."Donate on the 30th or the campaign is finshed"... should not be taken seriously.

[dircha]

Really, how much are your expecting to raise. There is only 8 days to advertise. They act like if we all agree to have it, it will be another November 5th and cure all our ills and win the election. If we don't "The Sky Is Falling" and we are finished. This election will NOT be determined by what happens on the 30th. And anyone who talks in such absolutes..."Donate on the 30th or the campaign is finshed"... should not be taken seriously.

Well, I see that there are already 500+ people signed up for it in just a short time.

And the email announcing it already went out to the 15,000+ people on the old November 5th mailing list. So the word is already out to more people than any conversation on this forum will reach.

I think it may give us at the very least another nice boost to compliment the boost we received with the latest email from the official campaign.

[born2drv]

It comes down to this:

December 16th money bomb only = 2-3 days of national media coverage.

November 30th money bomb = millions more to buy ads that will replayed a lot in the most important states for a couple of weeks.


Which is more important?


Nov30th will generate 400k max, not millions, your arguement is thus flawed. Nov 11th was a flop as well. If people don't believe it's going to be huge, they won't donate, period. I believe in Dec 16th will bring in $10M+, not Nov 30th, and I'm sure 99% agree with me.

Look there's nothing wrong with donating earlier. Donate whenever you want. But don't coordinate anything other than a big money bomb or distract people from the big day which is planned on Dec 16th.

[Mark37snj]

Well, I see that there are already 500+ people signed up for it in just a short time.

And the email announcing it already went out to the 15,000+ people on the old November 5th mailing list. So the word is already out to more people than any conversation on this forum will reach.

I think it may give us at the very least another nice boost to compliment the boost we received with the latest email from the official campaign.

I hope you guys realize you are scaring the HELL out of the rest of us. I hope, no, PRAY this does not backfire.

[mtmedlin]

I Second this and I will not promote November 30th in my Meetup group. December 16th has the youtube videos, it has the theme, it has Ron Paul mentioning it on TV, it has the website, it has the subscribers, it has the momentum! It has everything, why would you want to mess with that? A small money bomb like the Beat Huckabee Day was great, grassroots, but this has a website and is taking subscriptions just like the 16th. That makes it a bad idea.

I will say one other thing...these big Money Bombs are getting more money out of me than the campaign would normally get!!! Its exciting, it makes you want to give more, and if it has that affect on me then it probably has the same affect on others. No rah rah just donate more talk will get people to donate more then they are willing, but being a part of a November 5th like event will. It is also drawing alot of new first time donators. December 16th is their "Welcome Aboard, this is what it feels like to be a Ron Paul supporter", they will see what their particitation did on the news and they will love that feeling. November 30th will not significantly enhance Ron Puals funds, but it may significantly undermine it. What would have been the effect on November 5th if we had a Holloween bomb? On total raised, lack of press, lack of good video clips, youtube clips, lack of Ron Paul interviews? Think of everything we gained due to the 5th, everything we gained, not just the money. Please don't mess with December 16th.

I couldnt agree more with all of us that are protesting but I can also tell you that they wont change their mind. They charterd a course and very much like our current leadership in the White House, their decision is now unquestionable. Dont wast time trying to change their mind. Just save all your money for the 16th and hope that they havent screwed up the single largest media event of this campaign.

to Shaun,
I understand what your saying and I wish they would listen. I really wish that some people would take a cue from those of us with experience in things like this.

Oh well, heres hoping for the best.

[rrroae]

Nov 5 gave RP credibility. The larger Dec 16, the more relevant he becomes with the MSM. It's estimated RP recieved millions of dollars in free advertising from Nov 5. Now that we have their attention, we raise at least $7 million on Dec 16, we'll again get millions more in free advertising with the media.

The media loves an underdog and they can smell a big story brewing. Give them that story on Dec 16.

[constituent]

1) They charterd a course and very much like our current leadership in the White House, their decision is now unquestionable...

2) Just save all your money for the 16th and hope that they havent screwed up the single largest media event of this campaign.

...

3) Oh well, heres hoping for the best.

1) go figure
2) (again).
3) cheers!

[Cyclone]

I couldnt agree more with all of us that are protesting but I can also tell you that they wont change their mind. They charterd a course and very much like our current leadership in the White House, their decision is now unquestionable. Dont wast time trying to change their mind. Just save all your money for the 16th and hope that they havent screwed up the single largest media event of this campaign.

to Shaun,
I understand what your saying and I wish they would listen. I really wish that some people would take a cue from those of us with experience in things like this.

Oh well, heres hoping for the best.


Hear hear!

[Adamsa]

The thing about the 16th is the media attention it'll get. Whats the point in attempting to make money bombs before it happens?

[yoshimaroka]

How many times…

A big december 16th money bomb means free advertising for 2-3 day; brief mentions in national and local news. But by that time it'll be too late to buy advertisements for the do or die states before the primaries.

Money on the 30th = a lot of money for tv/radio ads in the do or die states(New Hampshire, Iowa, SC…). This means 2 weeks of blanket advertising for the people whose votes count the most. Winning a primary will bring in waaaaay more free advertising and boost donations way more than a Tea Party money bomb will.

Ron Paul's polling percentage went up before November 5th because of the TV/Radio ads.

[Original_Intent]

How many times....

Money before November 30th will BUY advertising.

Money on December 16th (if it is big enough) will convince people to listen to that advertising)

They could give Ron Paul a special "Texas Congressman/gynecologist" discount of 50% off advertising and it would make little or no difference if people perceive that he has no chance.

December 16th is the opportunity to change that perception.

I can't break it down for you any more than that.

[yoshimaroka]

Nov30th will generate 400k max, not millions, your arguement is thus flawed. Nov 11th was a flop as well. If people don't believe it's going to be huge, they won't donate, period. I believe in Dec 16th will bring in $10M+, not Nov 30th, and I'm sure 99% agree with me.

Look there's nothing wrong with donating earlier. Donate whenever you want. But don't coordinate anything other than a big money bomb or distract people from the big day which is planned on Dec 16th.

November 11th was only 6 days after The Greatest Day. People already donated.

Unlike the current leadership in the White House, there's a change in strategy and the more people who follow, the better off we'll be.
The official campaign did make a major mistake by not communicating this to us while the Tea Party was being planned…

We need as much money for advertising as possible. It's constant repetition that makes people change their minds. A major money bomb will have 2-3 days of brief mentions in the media all over the place, which is great, but we needs tons of ads to run in the key states before the primaries.

Basically, they are changing their strategy. At first their goal was just to raise the 12 mil and figure out what to do as they go along. But now they know we will reach the goal and they have a better understanding of our power and capabilities. So instead of waiting for another headlining money bomb, they want us to donate now. If you can afford to donate sooner rather than later, this makes a whole hell of a lot more sense. Otherwise it will go to waste because the early primaries are SO important.

[yoshimaroka]

How many times....

Money before November 30th will BUY advertising.

Money on December 16th (if it is big enough) will convince people to listen to that advertising)

They could give Ron Paul a special "Texas Congressman/gynecologist" discount of 50% off advertising and it would make little or no difference if people perceive that he has no chance.

December 16th is the opportunity to change that perception.

I can't break it down for you any more than that.

So doing both is the best choice.
Raise a million on the 30th, raise millions on the 16th.

[Man from La Mancha]

Doesn't matter now to the urgency, since the primaries are moved to January, give the most on the 16th to make the greatest media impact.






http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/1811/blimp3vz0.jpg

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9435/blackwsmallyh7.gif (teaparty07.com)..http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7607/brighton7jd8.gif (teaparty07.com)..copy,paste,linked to teaparty07.com

[jonathanwebb]

Basically, they are changing their strategy. At first their goal was just to raise the 12 mil and figure out what to do as they go along. But now they know we will reach the goal and they have a better understanding of our power and capabilities. So instead of waiting for another headlining money bomb, they want us to donate now. If you can afford to donate sooner rather than later, this makes a whole hell of a lot more sense. Otherwise it will go to waste because the early primaries are SO important.

This makes total sense to me. It's logical, prudent and very reasonable. We need not argue back and forth on this, what we need is to do as much as we can, when we can. If you want to donate Nov 30th, great. If you want to wait until Dec. 16, great. If you want to do both dates, super.

I do see the great value in getting more funds now to expand the original vision of the official campaign. I think before, they were thinking, "we'll be in good shape if we win in the top 3 in New Hampshire". Now, they are probably thinking, "hey, it looks like we may be able to WIN in New Hampshire!" Then they adjusted their requests for money accordingly.

If we do indeed win the NH primary, that will be at least equal to (if not greater than) the TeaParty goal of $10 million.

I think we need to do BOTH, and I think this grassroots effort is capable of doing both, don't you all think so?

[hddn-agnda]

he needs us to pledge that we will give $100 on Nov 30th (in addition to giving $100 or more on Dec. 16th).

I hope nobody missed the part about donating IN ADDITION to the 16th, this isn't mean to take away like all the naysayers will contend.

[hddn-agnda]

How many times....

Money before November 30th will BUY advertising.

Money on December 16th (if it is big enough) will convince people to listen to that advertising)

They could give Ron Paul a special "Texas Congressman/gynecologist" discount of 50% off advertising and it would make little or no difference if people perceive that he has no chance.

December 16th is the opportunity to change that perception.

I can't break it down for you any more than that.

If raising 4.3 Million in a day didn't buy enough credibility, nothing will. You have to go out, shake hands, knock on doors, get promises of support, and physically drive to peoples houses and give them a ride to the polls, holding their hands, if need be. I find it stupid and pointless to think that because you have ONE WINNING IDEA, that you somehow hold a monopoly of the... grass roots?

Doesn't that mean a lot of individuals doing what they can as individuals, though numerous efforts, individually?

The campaign is sending out fundraising emails... but they don't stop there, do they? "Well, we might not make as much money at our Fundraising dinners if we send out emails, so we're going to stop sending out emails"

You would rightly attack them for that strategy--but you ignore it when it's your own ignorance. Sad.

[Thunderbolt]

Some of you seem to get the point, the rest miss it. Kind of a forest for the trees thing.

A few ads will not make that much difference. Those of you pushing to spread this huge donation over two days are making a terrible mistake. The Boston Tea Party is a wonderful theme and yes, every dollar donated on the 30th takes away from the 16th. Instead of one wonderful, wonderous day that will bring in tens of millions of dollars of advertising (that is all the news is these days anyway) you want to water it down so you can have one million to spend on some ads.

That is not the way the public learns. After Nov.5th for the first time ever Ron Paul became somewhat electable. Only slightly, but he did become electable. Ads for an unelectable guy are useless. If we do not make a huge splash on the 16th, then we don't have a candidate to advertise about.

You are missing a huge part of strategy of business planning. You cannot do the same thing over and over and expect any press. It gets old. So either you get some press for a man who is unelectable and put out some ads for an unelectable candidate, or you get the most press ever for a man who becomes instantly electable and any following ads get paid attention to instead of ignored.

You cannot plan an event like this - haphazard and all over the place and trying to do a thousand things at once - either you focus on one thing and do it well, or try to do several things at once poorly.

[jonathanwebb]

For those who missed his post, I think Trevor's advice here is rock solid:




"I would like to add one additional thought for us to consider. There are well over 100 million adults in this country who have not yet donated to Dr. Paul. Many of us feel donating on one day will detract from the other. I argue that rather than thinking about cutting up the pie in smaller pieces, we should simply make the pie bigger. The “limited wealth” mindset may seem more rooted in reality, but it is actually untrue and defeatist in nature. If we want to have abundance we must envision it, believe in it, and take action to achieve it. The truth is the money is there and we need only convince more people to support Dr. Paul to be victorious. Please think about it, and thank you for all of your efforts. "

[McDermit]

I posted this in one of the other threads, but might as well post here too...


Bydlak was anti-moneybomb from the start of the Nov 5th campaign. Although, while the V and Guy Fawkes references were through the roof, I wasn't fond of the idea either. I only began promoting the date once the V references were removed. Bydlak, however, NEVER liked the concentrated donation day idea. No huge surprise that he's trying to sabotage the 16th.


2007, October 23 - 12:33 — Randolph Carter Re: Irritating Things V

http://www.thisnovember5th.com

I was kind of horrified when I read the "Bear" and "snore" thing, I thought they had gone a step further and turned it into a somnambulent gay porn site or something.

Further Edit: I spoke to Jon Bydlak, the fundraising chair who I'm friends with (we have secret official-grassroots pow-wows) and he's livid with the whole thing. The campaign wants money sooner rather than later, and when people hoard for a specific date it hurts overall fundraising, mainly because it kills momentum.



Really now? So Bydlak thinks we would have brought in that 4.3 mil and then some had Nov 5th never happened? Interesting.

[hddn-agnda]

You are missing a huge part of strategy of business planning. You cannot do the same thing over and over and expect any press. It gets old. So either you get some press for a man who is unelectable and put out some ads for an unelectable candidate, or you get the most press ever for a man who becomes instantly electable and any following ads get paid attention to instead of ignored.

You cannot plan an event like this - haphazard and all over the place and trying to do a thousand things at once - either you focus on one thing and do it well, or try to do several things at once poorly.


You are looking like the grass roots as ONE ENTITY. That's where you're the one missing the point. Each of us must do what we can as individuals. November 30th will doubtless bring in a few people who are new donors, who can be hit up for more money. If it doesn't, it will bring money regardless.

November 11th didn't take a single penny from November 5th. In fact, the 11th meant that we broke another million in the week FOLLOWING the largest Money Raising day in History. Have some perspective. Or at least have the decency to post this in another thread, so that any GOOD IDEAS that may come along can quickly be swept off the first page...after all, we wouldn't want anyone doing what the campaign says :mad:

[Eleanor]

Makes terrific sense to me.

PS. Starting the donating process NOW sounds good. It is 12:55 PM Eastern and we have less than $12k in donations for the day. We raised $240k in 10 hours on Tuesday when trying to beat Huckster's fundraiser. Can this total for today be improved?

[skinzterpswizfan]

If we do indeed win the NH primary, that will be at least equal to (if not greater than) the TeaParty goal of $10 million.


Winning the New Hampshire primary is infinitely more important than raising ten million dollars in one day. Winning a key primary guarantees legitimacy, raising money just shows there are enthusiastic supporters.

[Original_Intent]

Hmm interesting that Bydlack was against money bombs from the get-go. I didn't know that.

Also interesting that he is holding secret "campaign/grassroots pow-wows" that definitely sounds like an FEC no-no, haven't they seen the scandal coverage about Clinton calling and coordinating with a fundraiser in Hollywood?

The more I learn, the more I think Bydlack is an insecure kid who is trying to build his resume for bigger and better things down the road, and it must be frustrating him no end that the media and Congressman Paul continue to rightly credit the grassroots with the campaign's biggest fundraising successes.

Kudos to him for the end of Q3 fundraising drive, though. That was truly motivating and in some ways planted the seeds for November 5th.

[Eleanor]

Winning the New Hampshire primary is infinitely more important than raising ten million dollars in one day. Winning a key primary guarantees legitimacy, raising money just shows there are enthusiastic supporters.

That puts it in a beautiful nutshell. Thank you.

Now if we can only improve today's donations... As of 1:15 PM ET there have been only 142 donations coming to $14,815 for the day. We've had much better days than that before.

[jonathanwebb]

Whether detractors agree or not, www.RudysReadingList.com is already going viral.

There's not much anyone can do to stop the Dec. 30 effort at this point; it's going to happen.

Signups are exponentially increasing, meetup groups are getting the word out, and a lot of websites have info or ads about the Dec. 30 event already posted.

Alex Jones just put it on his web site as well this morning, and he has a pretty large following:

http://www.infowars.net/articles/november2007/231107Donation.htm

Free Market news also picked up the story today also:

http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=51768&fb=1

[Original_Intent]

That puts it in a beautiful nutshell. Thank you.

Now if we can only improve today's donations... As of 1:15 PM ET there have been only 142 donations coming to $14,815 for the day. We've had much better days than that before.

A $10 million Dec 16th does far more to win New Hampshire than a consistent $150K per day or a misbegotten mini-bomblet/grenade on the 30th.

[stevedasbach]

I posted this in one of the other threads, but might as well post here too...


Bydlak was anti-moneybomb from the start of the Nov 5th campaign. Although, while the V and Guy Fawkes references were through the roof, I wasn't fond of the idea either. I only began promoting the date once the V references were removed. Bydlak, however, NEVER liked the concentrated donation day idea. No huge surprise that he's trying to sabotage the 16th.


Really now? So Bydlak thinks we would have brought in that 4.3 mil and then some had Nov 5th never happened? Interesting.

The date on that was prior to Nov 5th. A lot of minds were changed on Nov 5th.

[Mark37snj]

Some of you seem to get the point, the rest miss it. Kind of a forest for the trees thing.

A few ads will not make that much difference. Those of you pushing to spread this huge donation over two days are making a terrible mistake. The Boston Tea Party is a wonderful theme and yes, every dollar donated on the 30th takes away from the 16th. Instead of one wonderful, wonderous day that will bring in tens of millions of dollars of advertising (that is all the news is these days anyway) you want to water it down so you can have one million to spend on some ads.

That is not the way the public learns. After Nov.5th for the first time ever Ron Paul became somewhat electable. Only slightly, but he did become electable. Ads for an unelectable guy are useless. If we do not make a huge splash on the 16th, then we don't have a candidate to advertise about.

You are missing a huge part of strategy of business planning. You cannot do the same thing over and over and expect any press. It gets old. So either you get some press for a man who is unelectable and put out some ads for an unelectable candidate, or you get the most press ever for a man who becomes instantly electable and any following ads get paid attention to instead of ignored.

You cannot plan an event like this - haphazard and all over the place and trying to do a thousand things at once - either you focus on one thing and do it well, or try to do several things at once poorly.

That is exactly right!!! November 5th showed us the way. We were of one voice, one goal, one purpose. Thousands of people all working together led by sound wisdom, not by some panicky 23 year old kid with no experience and a track record for screwing up ( ie moving Philly Rally to Valley Forge ). It appears we are now a victum of our own success. I don't think we will ever get a consensus and anything again, especially now that we see what a few people who act unilaterally can do.

[mtmedlin]

Guys, let it die. I hate the two bomb idea but the damage is done. Those of us opposed arent changing our mind, those for it arent changing theirs. Let it go and move on. This isnt the first time this forum has had an all out brawl, but in the end we come back together and move on. In a week from now, it will be over. Let it go for 1 week.

[McDermit]

People seem to forget as well that 16th will provide FREE AND IMMEDIATE ADVERTISING within just a few weeks of the first primary. The 30th will not.

RP himself said that the 4th brought over 10mil in free advertising. That advertising wasn't just NH or IA either, it was across the nation. And let's not forget that we saw a significant jump in his polling numbers nationwide in the week following Nov 5.

2mil on the 30th may buy $2mil worth of advertising in one or two states. 10mil on the 16th will provide free advertsing in EVERY state - including all of the early primary states. And the massive cash infusion will give the campaign all the money they need for last minute ads and to start getting out the message in the Super Tuesday states.

As others with media and campaign experience have mentioned, 30 second spots don't win elections. They help, but media coverage does more. Just ask your average IA caucus-goer which they pay more attention to, and which is more influential - a mention by a well known local or national media personality, or a 30 second spot with phoney sounding paid actors.


There's nothing wrong with donating today, tomorrow, or yesterday. The more donations, the better. But as far as getting the most bang for our bucks via a concentrated donation day, the 16th is it. The 30th is silly. If you want to give now, just do it. Don't wait for the 30th. Afterall, the entire argument for the 30th is that HQ needs money NOW, not LATER. If you're willing to wait a week, then why not just hold onto it for 16 more days? Personally, I maxed out during Q3. My ex maxed out in Q2, and she and I helped our families max out during the final push in Q3. We got my brothers maxxed out on Nov 5th. And now we're giving those in the family who like RP but haven't donated a little "nudge" to get them to max out on the 16th. And I'm done with t he subject for now. We're heading out for another slim-jim bomb at the malls. The lines are still ridiculous.

[McDermit]

The date on that was prior to Nov 5th. A lot of minds were changed on Nov 5th.

His obviously wasn't - or he wouldn't have knocked the 16th.

[Cyclone]

....

[McDermit]

Second, I too once had reverence for all things uttered by the campaign until I realized that they are falling apart at the seams and being run by children. I called them on Monday and asked them to send out a simple email reminder to tell the folks in Maryland that is was the last day for them to become Republicans so they can vote in the primary. We have a lot of supporters from other parties who are not aware of primary rules. I was told that it was a "waste of time" because they already had the info on their website and "if voters cannot bother to come to the website to learn the rules then we don't need them."


Wow, who at HQ did you talk to about the MD primary thing? That definitely needs to be brought to the attention of a higher-up.

If you don't want to out them here, please PM me the name.

[Fred McRomliani]

Let's get $3 million on the 30th and meet the quarter goal with December as gravy. ;)

The 16th will be a final stomp on Giuliani's face.

[Mark Rushmore]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=axM7t8OfWxFg&refer=home

Looks like he's counting on us for the 16th, hope this Rudy stuff doesn't slow us down.

[Cyclone]

...

[Liberty Star]

I submit, for your consideration... the following post, by the person whom we all called a genius for helping us raise over $4 million in one day. I think we owe him the courtesy of reading his post here, and supporting this effort:



Please go to www.RudysReadingList.com and pledge your support for this fundraising day on November 30th, then come back here and let us know you pledged.

.


This sounds like a very good idea.

Money for somethin’ good and education for free, as Dire Straits would have put it.





Let's get $3 million on the 30th and meet the quarter goal with December as gravy. ;)

The 16th will be a final stomp on Giuliani's face.


Nice :)

[Cyclone]

Let's get $3 million on the 30th and meet the quarter goal with December as gravy. ;)

The 16th will be a final stomp on Giuliani's face.

Come on, let's just get 30 million on each day! We have unlimited funds and can raise any amount with the snap of a finger.

Or do you perhaps think that there is a limit to how much we have to give and taking 3 million away from the 16th might turn a bang into a fizzle?

For heaven's sake people - think!

[LibertyEagle]

Nov. 23 (Bloomberg) -- Presidential candidate Ron Paul said he has raised more than $9 million in the past two months and he predicted his campaign will exceed its $12 million fourth-quarter goal.

``It looks like we can't stay under it,'' Paul, a long-shot candidate for the Republican nomination, said in an interview on Bloomberg Television's ``Political Capital with Al Hunt,'' scheduled to air today. Paul said organizers expect a Dec. 16 fundraising blitz to bring in more than the $4.2 million a similar event raised on Nov. 5, an ``astounding'' amount.

Paul said he has begun ``spending generously'' in key early- primary states. He is competing in New Hampshire, Iowa, South Carolina and Nevada, and said he expects to have money to campaign through Super Tuesday, Feb. 5, when at least 22 states may hold primaries and decide the nomination.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=axM7t8OfWxFg&refer=home



We are going to look like absolute idiots if we do not blow the December 16th fundraiser completely out of the ballpark. Not only that, but we will have put egg all over Ron Paul's face!!

Why? Because a few of us had a knee-jerk reaction to an email from a 20-something year old and instead of going to the campaign for clarification, have almost single-handedly derailed all the efforts and promotion that have gone into The Tea Party.

[Fred McRomliani]

Come on, let's just get 30 million on each day! We have unlimited funds and can raise any amount with the snap of a finger.

Or do you perhaps think that there is a limit to how much we have to give and taking 3 million away from the 16th might turn a bang into a fizzle?

For heaven's sake people - think!

The campaign has made it clear that they can't wait until December 16th to perform in Iowa and New Hampshire (January 3 and 8.)

I'll be giving the same amount I gave on the 5th for Rudy's Reading List and the Tea Party. Hopefully the other 38,000 donors on the 5th can do the same.

[hddn-agnda]

Come on, let's just get 30 million on each day! We have unlimited funds and can raise any amount with the snap of a finger.

Or do you perhaps think that there is a limit to how much we have to give and taking 3 million away from the 16th might turn a bang into a fizzle?

For heaven's sake people - think!


10 Million becomes 7, still a world record... if you have no confidence that a world record would be covered by the media, why would they cover 10? Wouldn't another 5 million dollar day do the same thing?

Your circular logic fails the stupid test, unfortunately.

[jonathanwebb]

Come on, let's just get 30 million on each day! We have unlimited funds and can raise any amount with the snap of a finger.

Or do you perhaps think that there is a limit to how much we have to give and taking 3 million away from the 16th might turn a bang into a fizzle?

For heaven's sake people - think!

Maybe you ought to change your username into "Hurricane", because you are sure stirring up more of a storm that a measly little "Cyclone". ;) I think you're being facetious in your quote above; at least I hope so.

Actually, if we play this right, and stick with both Nov 30 & Dec 16, we can get three headlines out of this:

1. "Ron Paul campaign exceeds quarterly funding goal one month early"... and

2. "Ron Paul wins New Hampshire primary"... and

3. "Ron Paul campaign makes history, raising $10 mil in one day".

If we wait until the 16th, the only headline we'll get is #3, and possibly just a "Howard Dean" footnote in political journals.

[Liberty Star]

Come on, let's just get 30 million on each day! We have unlimited funds and can raise any amount with the snap of a finger.

Or do you perhaps think that there is a limit to how much we have to give and taking 3 million away from the 16th might turn a bang into a fizzle?

For heaven's sake people - think!


Those who have committed for Dec 16 would still donate then and that should remain the big day of fury.

However, reaching quarter end goal a month ahead would also create a bang giving a good window of time for it to resonate ahead of primaries. I don't think it would take much away from big bang day on Dec 16, it would converge much of the money that would have gone Ron Paul's way anyway between now and then and add some extra motivation for other people.

[Original_Intent]

Yep damage has been done.

People have unsubscribed from TeaParty07 because the received unsolicited emails which the site itself told them they would not receive.

We have spent a couple of days trying to convince maybe a half dozen relatively new posters to calm down and stay the course, but they know better.

Best at this point to quit responding to them, evaluate any new ideas they come up with (even a broken clock is right twice a day) and shoot down the many ideas they intend to spam the boards with until the 16th (if they are bad ones).

[James R]

I submit, for your consideration... the following post, by the person whom we all called a genius for helping us raise over $4 million in one day. I think we owe him the courtesy of reading his post here, and supporting this effort:



Please go to www.RudysReadingList.com and pledge your support for this fundraising day on November 30th, then come back here and let us know you pledged.

.

Can we have two money bombs that both make a massive amount of money that are separated by two paycheck periods, or do they actually destroy each other to a high degree?

It seems to me the whole point of choosing Dec 16th in the first place is that we needed many paychecks to build up for a record-smashing event, and sooner money-bombs may kill the build-up of money. Maybe people who want to donate now can help most by donating immediately and not participating in the Nov 30th money bomb.

[KewlRonduderules]

You know I am one to join the bandwagon when an idea is proposed. Although Trevor did ask us which day we would have liked to have a moneybomb, perhaps he should have polled the entire community if we did indeed want another moneybomb.

As for me, it did not matter as long as Dr. Paul gets the funds he needs to ensure his victory. I thought it was a good idea. But given the amount of division this has created, I have to say the naysayers do have a point. I learned something from this as well. You want to do something new- talk to the grassroots first.

Regardless, we are with a new situation. Either way both events are out there in public. So either choose a date to donate or choose both dates or if you wanna really be a scrooge, don't donate at all.

Peace.:cool:

[Cyclone]

///

[Eleanor]

A $10 million Dec 16th does far more to win New Hampshire than a consistent $150K per day or a misbegotten mini-bomblet/grenade on the 30th.

I'm sure they'd prefer to have a continuous stream rather than megabucks at once. It's cash flow.

It's like getting paid every 2 wks vs. having to stretch your remaining existing funds to last the next 3 wks. In this scenario, the expenses you have to defer includes some bills that you MUST pay NOW to avoid collection. If you don't pay them it will come back to bite you, even though you expect to get a HUGE payday in 3 wks with several months' back pay and can pay them then.

Quoting Trevor (I believe it is), the pie will expand if we win NH. If we don't, everyone's efforts over the last MONTHS in later states will go down the drain.

All the sign waves of local meetup groups in nearby cities (I'm in Florida) will be useless if RP doesn't win NH. And with Mitt's media juggernaut of $85,000 a day, $600,000 a week airwave saturation of Iowa, NH, SC and Florida, we as a group are having a problem with when to donate to meet that juggernaut???

Per FEC records, Mitt spent $52 million in the 3rd quarter, Rudy spent $30 million. I'm sure some of that was for paid staffers who are doing the work that volunteers are doing for Ron Paul, but I'm sure neither campaign has that many staff.

[Liberty Star]

Actually, if we play this right, and stick with both Nov 30 & Dec 16, we can get three headlines out of this:

1. "Ron Paul campaign exceeds quarterly funding goal one month early"... and

2. "Ron Paul wins New Hampshire primary"... and

3. "Ron Paul campaign makes history, raising $10 mil in one day".



Dec 16 day would and should remain the day that makes history.

You make good points, 'Ron Paul reaches quarter end goal a month ahead' headline can be made without compromising Dec 16 day event. There is lot of enthusiasm out there for Ron Paul, I do not think it would dilute the big bang on Dec 16. In couple of weeks since Nov 5, couple of millions have gone Ron Paul's way, Nov 30th Rudy reading list event would converge some of the money going in current period to one day and add some extra boost. I think it's worth the very small trade off considering time window factor.

[Original_Intent]

I'm sure they'd prefer to have a continuous stream rather than megabucks at once. It's cash flow.

It's like getting paid every 2 wks vs. having to stretch your remaining existing funds to last the next 3 wks. In this scenario, the expenses you have to defer includes some bills that you MUST pay NOW to avoid collection. If you don't pay them it will come back to bite you, even though you expect to get a HUGE payday in 3 wks with several months' back pay and can pay them then.

Quoting Trevor (I believe it is), the pie will expand if we win NH. If we don't, everyone's efforts over the last MONTHS in later states will go down the drain.

All the sign waves of local meetup groups in nearby cities (I'm in Florida) will be useless if RP doesn't win NH. And with Mitt's media juggernaut of $85,000 a day, $600,000 a week airwave saturation of Iowa, NH, SC and Florida, we as a group are having a problem with when to donate to meet that juggernaut???

Per FEC records, Mitt spent $52 million in the 3rd quarter, Rudy spent $30 million. I'm sure some of that was for paid staffers who are doing the work that volunteers are doing for Ron Paul, but I'm sure neither campaign has that many staff.

Eleanor I would agree with you 110% if we were only talking about money now or money later. Of course money now is better.

What you and others are refusing to address is the money value of media coverage if the bomb does well and the likelihood that all this "steady stream" and "November 30" talk is detrimental to that effort.

I have heard from within the campaign and also the grassroots that November 5th probably generated in the neighborhood of $20 million dollars in media coverage. It resulted in Ron Paul getting some SERIOUS exposure by being invited for a large segment on Face the Nation.

Your steady stream argument holds up great for a housewife who is trying to work a budget, but there are a lot of other factors at work here, factors that some here are ignoring or dismissing out of hand. Most of these people are also fairly new here, take that for whatever you will.

[jonathanwebb]

I thought it was a good idea. But given the amount of division this has created, I have to say the naysayers do have a point.

I understand your points, but I think some of the naysayers who keep posting against the Nov 30th event have one or more of the following traits:

1) they like to argue, and are more interesting in arguing than they are going out and doing something positive for the campaign.

2) they have rather large egos that will not allow them to drop it (they must "save face" at all costs),

3) they see themselves as "forum big-shots" because they have "challenged" Trevor,

and [this is the worst one:]

4) their posts almost have a "listen, I'm warning you!" type tone to them - giving the impression that they would rather see the whole campaign go down in flames, creating a failure in the early primaries, just so they can say "I told you so, it's because of RudysReadingList.com".


I think we need to just support both bombs with our money, (or ignore the 30th if you so choose), but whatever we do, we should not fight people who are trying to raise money for Ron Paul on any day of the year.

That's just my opinion.

[AlexMerced]

both sides stop chastising people for being new, we want people to feel welcome to boards, cause you don't want to scare people away from the cause, though this thread has become a lot more civil since earlier today.

Though it was interesting when somone pointed out in another thread RP polls to 6% jumped almost immediately after the NH ads which didn't show up until the 5th cause of the the couple of days between polling and results. Yet everyone gives all the credit to the 5th. The 5th media coverage faded away pretty kick in all reality, they were done covering it after a few days.

Still good PR for name recognition, but ads emphasize the issues which gets votes.

THis is my last post in this thread, don't bother responding to this, cause i'm not gonna respond, if you want discuss it, PM me

[KewlRonduderules]

I understand your points, but I think some of the naysayers who keep posting against the Nov 30th event have one or more of the following traits:

1) they like to argue, and are more interesting in arguing than they are going out and doing something positive for the campaign.

2) they have rather large egos that will not allow them to drop it (they must "save face" at all costs),

3) they see themselves as "forum big-shots" because they have "challenged" Trevor,

and [this is the worst one:]

4) their posts almost have a "listen, I'm warning you!" type tone to them - giving the impression that they would rather see the whole campaign go down in flames, creating a failure in the early primaries, just so they can say "I told you so, it's because of RudysReadingList.com".


I think we need to just support both bombs with our money, (or ignore the 30th if you so choose), but whatever we do, we should not fight people who are trying to raise money for Ron Paul on any day of the year.

That's just my opinion.

I agree with you. Too many people have been beating a dead horse. It is what it is. Unfortunately, I would not be surprised if half these new people were moles. Interesting the USAtoday ad came out on Wednesday. I wonder if the new sign ups got to work just to do that- disrupt the grassroots online.

It is clear the most senior members who disagree they say their piece and move on.

This is how it should be. You don't want to have long standing conflict. And this is what they are trying to do so we become discouraged. Don't let them do that.

Another motive is possibly to discourage new persons from joining the grassroots effort. They see this what is going on and they will think twice about joining. This cannot happen.

[LibertyEagle]

The campaign has made it clear that they can't wait until December 16th to perform in Iowa and New Hampshire (January 3 and 8.)



Yes. But, what we do not know is whether they need additional money to do that.

What we were sent by Bydlak says that they are spending money faster than they are taking it in. He mentions spending more money in October, than they raised in October. What he did not mention is the fact that we started off October with 5.3 million dollars in the bank! Nor, did he say anything about the 6 million dollars raised in November thus far. What we don't know, is if that 11 million dollars total will carry them through until the 12/16th Tea Party. We could have found out. IF instead of having a knee-jerk reaction to the email, the very same person who seemed to believe it was within his purvue to cannibalize the Tea Party signup list to launch a fundraiser of his own designing, would have used his name recognition to get an answer from someone higher up in the campaign. But NO. We had to just jump off the bridge without looking.


As a result, we are spending faster than the rate at which we are raising money. In October alone, we raised $2.8 million, but our campaign spent over $3.1 million.

It is clear that as the person responsible for campaign fundraising, Bydlak would prefer to have the money streaming in all along the way, than to wait until 12/16. I think we can all understand that. I am quite sure it is nerve-racking for him, considering the job he has in the campaign.

HOWEVER, it is a big mistake to assume that a wand can be waved and the same amount of money that might have been raised on the 16th can somehow be brought in earlier and just "smoothed" over earlier dates. Why is that? There has been a huge amount of promotion of this event by thousands of people and not just to the Ron Paul faithful. No, Americans are slowly waking up. They are getting sick and tired of what is going on in our country. We have the man; we have the message and we DID have the day for Americans to finally stand up and say NO MORE! For this to work, this event had to build up to a crescendo. The fire had to be stoked. People were planning to send out requests to their subscribers and on and on. Wait. Did someone here think that all the money that was raised on 11/5 came from only US? Think again. Remember Adam Curry's promotion? Remember the man with the precious metal newsletter that sent out the request to all his subscribers?

Nor should one be so presumptuous to assume that you can just divide up what we might have gotten on the 16th, between 11/30 and 12/16. To believe that is to be completely clueless about marketing strategy, or any kind of strategy for that matter. Think back to why we all used to think that 12/16 would blow out all the expectations. Try to remember. We never thought it was going to come from just us. We also expected it to come from a lot of others, who may not even be supporters of Ron Paul yet. If the steam is let out of this event, and much of it already has been at this point, it is likely that the campaign will not receive these donations from other sources and will conclude with a huge net loss of quarterly contributions. Not to mention the fervor, excitement and huge amount of press that would be associated with such success. How much is that worth?

Something changed on November 5th. Ron Paul went from becoming an also ran to becoming a possibility in Americans' minds. I have seen with my own eyes discussions which used to be centered on him being whacky or fringe, to actually discussing issues. Even people that I see on a regular basis, had a complete turnaround. Now, they think that he actually has a chance. That this can really happen. A huge blowout on 12/16, and I'm not just talking about beating Hillary's record, would open a lot of people's eyes. Don't you know that there are a lot of people like us out there, but they just never believed that someone like Paul stood a chance, so they never engaged, or were planning on throwing their support elsewhere?

That was what we had going. Now that a huge hole has been blown in this effort, I guess we'll see what happens.


We cannot afford to wait for bursts of press activity. What we need is sustained attention in the news. What better way to do this than by continuing to raise money at a rapid pace now? We need to keep our momentum going.

[Original_Intent]

I agree with you. Too many people have been beating a dead horse. It is what it is. Unfortunately, I would not be surprised if half these new people were moles. Interesting the USAtoday ad came out on Wednesday. I wonder if the new sign ups got to work just to do that- disrupt the grassroots online.

It is clear the most senior members who disagree they say their piece and move on.

This is how it should be. You don't want to have long standing conflict. And this is what they are trying to do so we become discouraged. Don't let them do that.

Another motive is possibly to discourage new persons from joining the grassroots effort. They see this what is going on and they will think twice about joining. This cannot happen.

Message received. I find it hard to just "move on" when I keep seeing the same people continue to brings stuff up etc. I realize that you both probably see me as part of the problem (it takes two to tango) but I also say that all that is needed for foolishness to win is for wisdom to say nothing.

I am not saying I am the wise one. I am staying engaged witht hose I disagree with and then the market (which in this case is the forums) can weigh the merits and decide.

I extended the hand of friendship and burying the hatchet. Alex took me up on it and hidden agenda did not respond, has called me a hypocrite, and continues to be, dare I say, gleefully supportive of any idea that appears to be designed to lessen the effectiveness of Dec 16th.

I do have a "healthy" ego, but this is not about saving face. Winning is my only priority and I am more than willing to change my position when it is for the good of the campaign.

I am getting tired of the drama (of which I am a major contributor, sad to admit) and in my previous post to hidden agenda and Alex I completely accepted responsibililty for some of the hostility and conditionally apologized - the condition being that they had good intentions and were not here to deliberately scuttle us.

+1 to LibertyEagle

[Menthol Patch]

I urge everyone who has not done so already to sign up at http://www.rudysreadinglist.com

[constituent]

+1 for libertyeagle.

i made a post mentioning tag alongs in the art and music communities earlier
in the week regarding this matter (it might have been yesterday, i don't remember)...

clearly w/ the unsolicited e-mails and any number of other problems one could
point to, we are seeing the ill effects of precisely that which i pointed out.

get off of it people.

the cult of personality is a cult, and about 80 percent of you seem to have
fallen into it... please, for the good of everyone WAKE UP!!!!!!

[LiveFreeorDie]

Count me in.

[Carole]

If a person is choking (as in that commercial on television), it is probably not a good idea to overdiscuss it. Performing the Heimlich maneuver immediately is the better common sense decision. An Action decision.

Consequently, in addition to pledging to the teaparty and I have gone to Ron Paul's site and donated as much as I could this week. They seem to really need the money right now and I am happy to do what I can.

I will also try to fit in the Nov 30 Rudy's Reading List donation day, but cannot decide for a few more days due to my financial situation.

I would like to suggest that any amount today, immediately, would be helpful. And for those who plan to give big later, maybe you give a little less that day and give something today.

The goal is to help the campaign, not to hurt it, and the email I read seemed to be indicating that we could be causing collateral damage. They seem to be concerned about keeping Dr. Paul more consistently in the news and consistently funded. I know everyone here has the best of intentions, so think about it and do what you think best.

Thanks for reading this.

[Carole]

Here is a link to the letter sent out regarding funds.

http://infowars.net/articles/november2007/231107Donation.htm

[E. Nordstrom]

Ron Paul's campaign should be working the issue of media coverage. We need to focus on getting people registered to vote, educating people about the issues that face us, educating people on Ron Paul's message of freedom, and getting money by the truckloads as a minimum weekly to ensure the campaign can show non-erratic results and be able to actually plan out a course of action based on money in the bank versus money that may come due to long lags of time from these massive donations. I seem to be quite alone on these issues.

Here I'll spell it all out for all of you.

If you go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_bomb and read the entire history of the money bomb you might begin to grasp what I am about to say.

Between Dan, Elders, Nordstrom, Lyman, Krzyzanowski, Yao, and others whose name I am not familiar (and in that order), and the general online Ron Paul support community, plus the offline community, we have all generated a ton of loot for Ron Paul. Far more than he ever dreamed.

Due to the mixing of Elders and Nordstrom's efforts with Lyman's and the video people, throw in the Ron Paul Graphs, and the common voice of all of us (all of us meaning - this generation, the patriots of liberty, Ron Paul supporters, you) doing our best to spread the word, and we got us a machine!

I read allot about ego. I read allot about who did what, who is better that who, what is important and what is not, y`all need to settle down and remember that the person who posted before you and the person who posts after you are all on your side and are all on the same team.

Now, there is a division at the moment. Lyman is doing his thing and I am proud that he has held his ground. True he shouldn't inflate his ego because that fact that the 5th was a success was not his doing - it was all of your doing. It was the right place at the right time with the right people carrying the flag up the hill.

This division I speak of is simple to describe. Some of us believe that focusing on one or two (maximum) online fund raisers is the best way to go. Your frustration is gumming up the forum.

The fact of the matter is that you can try all you want to try and hold all the donations into one or two fund raisers but it is a bit like holding sand in your hand. The tighter you grip, the more sand falls out. Loosen up.

Elders and I have always supported any and all money raising donation schemes for Ron Paul. If it raised $100.00 to $4,000,000.00 we always advertised it and spread it around in the forums and directly on our website.

Prior to my adventures with the website, I was a general Ron Paul supporter. I went to his donation page and gladly gave up $100.00. I felt good about contributing. A month passed and I began to wonder how many other people out there donated $100.00. Hell I am a damn Sergeant I don't make squat for money I wanted to donate more but diapers are damn expensive. I started thinking about making a website that has the intent of encouraging people to donate more than once and making it feel like the donating party is part of a large movement. (A rEVOLution)

Thats when I happened across Elders Email Opt-In donation idea ronpaulmoneybomb@yahoo.com - I thought this was absolutely genius - except for one thing - there is nothing to look at. People might as well go directly to Ron Paul's donation page. Without signing up. I built a website. I asked politely of Elders if it met with his satisfaction. I asked because this was now a group effort and his opinion was important. We began posting the words "Ron Paul Money Bomb" every where. I myself stayed awake 36 hours doing nothing but posting ads, blogs, comments, emails, anything and slapping the term "Money Bomb" onto it. We knew we had a hit! We knew that people would come by the thousands. The ronpaulmoneybomb.com site was ready, a date was set and off we went.

It was strange, we had amassed more than 1000 people very quickly. Crazy quick. But then as quickly as the pledges came they virtually stopped. We pulled in $30,000.00 dollars from Money Bomb 1 (MB1) and I was damn proud. Hell it's more than I make in a year working 60 hour work weeks on F-15s.

Our name-sake "The Money Bomb" was all over the internet at this time. I mean everywhere. But we still thought it strange that we weren't gathering pledges as fast as we should have been. We did some investigating. We found, virtually at every place we had left and ad, comment, or blog, someone else was advertising. We found that someone was advertising a (quote) "November 5th Money Bomb". We looked up the site and sure enough, people were flocking to the November 5th Money Bomb? This wasn't the Money Bomb, we were the Money Bomb. Hey that was our idea! That dude hijacked all or our pledgers!

But not so fast. Lyman did a hell of a job with linking up the V for Vendetta theme. Even the off line community could be seen wearing Fawkes Masks. So there began the life of the term Money Bomb in our common lingo. Although upset at first (because Elders and I were trying to get our idea off the ground) we settled in and figured - eh' as long as it helps Ron Paul - right on.

We did figure we would get some assistance from Lyman after the 5th but so far he seems to not care too much for all the rest of us. I don't mean that in a negative way just an observation. He believes in what he is doing and that is commendable. Do I agree with his methods post November 5th? Hell no.

The sway of 20,000 people and the wake of the $4 Million dollar bonanza has given Lyman a sort of fame. He is using it to the best he knows how. The problem is that he seems to be driven to out perform his previous sucess, hopefully not at the expense of the campaign but absolutely at the expense of those persons such as myself who worked so hard to see the success of the 5th, saw the payout to the campaign, can contribute so much more - however now passed over and stifled by a mans pride - we find ourselves in limbo.

The division I spoke of earlier is the difference between those who want to narrow the funnel to only two sites versus those (the majority) who want free and open donation sites, the more the better, (without being hassled by some moron speaking out against it). I can't count how many times I have now placed a reminder to folks about the Ron Paul Money Bomb site, only to go back and find some ass-hat telling people not to do it but rather to focus only on the Tea Party only.

The grains of sand will slip from a tightened fist. There must be and is a balance. Due to the work we have all done as described from the beginning of this long ass note until now, we have collectively found a new form of campaign donation system. The machine.

The reason we attend the donations website versus going directly to Ron Paul's donation page is simple. We all feel part of a larger team when we get together and help Ron Paul to confuse the powerful in Washington.

There are five prongs to the system we have developed/stumbled upon.

1. Weekly donations are absolutely essential. They are an important introduction into the donation drive world. They ensure that people who would otherwise have only donated once, repeat the process a few more times. Garnering the campaign a few extra bucks. They are important because they help other smaller donation sites out by advertising them. They keep money flowing into the main campaign during the lull times in between the Mass Donation Drives. The weeklies are also (to the weeky's peril) a gateway into the larger Mass Donations.

2. Rogue donators are essential, they are the bulk of the donations between the large Mass Donation Drives and they keep the campaign moving along with cash. The rogues are usually people who don't give a hoot about donation drives or don't have the time for them.

3. The online campaign support community itself. The efforts of thousand of hands and minds advertising for the weekly and the mass donation drives are what brings fresh people into the scene. Without the online support community nothing would happen. The best ideas come from this prong of the system as well. The vast resources of the online community is absolutely amazing.

4. The off line support community is perhaps the biggest boost this donation system has. The shear numbers of people willing to contribute is astonishing. Some folks never set eyes on a website and yet they donated on the 5th of November for example.

5. The Mass Donation Drive. The cocaine of the donation system. Mass Donation Drives greatest flaw is the amount of time required to generate interest and then the damage to the campaign cannot be denied. The longer a Mass Donation Drive takes to gain momentum, the longer the main campaign goes without the bigger funding required to run a campaign. The trade off and the balancing act is to generate enough momentum to generate massive sums of money while not starving the campaign of funds. The Mass Donation Drive does provide some media attention to the candidate however, the Donation Drive itself becomes the news and not the candidate (main stream media), and one person is accredited for the success of the Mass Donation Drive. In reality it required an army of people to make it happen and so to the Main Stream Media begins to shine the light on that one individual. The army, who made the Mass Donation drive is sidelined. However , the overall success of the Mass Donation Drive quickly overcomes any malice and the clock is reset. At this point the people at the Mass Donation are required to hand the baton back to the weekly donation drives. The individuals who had pledged money into the Mass Donation Drive now have an opportunity to continue to feed the campaign needed cash.

With the advent of the Rudysreadinglist one can see that the system broke down at that point.

The Ron Paul Money Bomb and many other faithful donation oriented websites that are backed up by faithful and passionate patriots have now been sidelined and rendered useless by the over-reach of the Mass Donation Drives. Cocaine.

It isn't too late to salvage the system. The mechanisms work. Proof of that is simple. Look at Ron Paul's total donations. The Mass Donation Drive (as of now) is only half the amount pulled in.

The facts are that it doesn't matter if we have 100 donation sites, what matters is the collective effort by the 100. Each dollar is as important as another. Success should not be measured by who made the most or who has the best website. What matters is what the collective places into Ron Paul's campaign. Having two websites ONLY is counter productive.

Rules to follow: Spread the widest net possible. Help each other with each others attempt to raise money for Ron Paul. Do not horde information and do not horde influence. You may not thin it a big deal but congratulate someone for making a buck or two for Ron Paul and help him to make it more successful. Ensure that you keep the love in rEVOLution because your bad attitude and poor manners reflect upon Ron Paul and his bid for the Oval Office. Cooperate, be a friend, help out, don't stifle ideas.

If you do anything other than those rules. Well, you are a counterproductive member of the support group and your tone, words, or additude should be made aware to you, if you continue you should be shown the door.

Now, I have advertised allot this week, I have a few Meet-up groups attending Monday's Money Bomb (unless someone sent them an email and told them to focus on the Tea Party) and so I can use some of the support we had prior to our system being fed cocaine. Furthermore the main campaign needs cash. So, I am hoping that we can all agree that we need to pull it together and support something more than this wacky (2 sites to victory crap). We have a long way to go. December is only the beginning.

I have two young boys - I cannot begin to imagine the quasi-autocratic society they will have to endure if we don't succeed.

We have one opportunity, just ONE CHANCE to see liberty restored. Every negativity you spew, every power grab you attempt, every project you spit on, and every aspect of our online community you disrespect you diminish that ONE CHANCE piece by piece.

It may sound goofy, but ask yourself if the founding fathers would utter some of the crap that we read (that were posted by our fellow Ron Paul supporters). Make a good impression.

Unite - work as one - help for all who need it - this is a fight weather you take it serious or not. I guarantee those who are currently in power are watching this and us very closely. If you don't believe that this is a fight for our general way of life and the preservation of the Constitution - wake up.

I am just one of your fellow patriots and I am damn proud to be a part of this attempt to awaken our sleeping fellow citizens to the possibility of liberty again and always.

If you need anything - I'll be here -> www.ronpaulmoneybomb.com

V/r

Eric Nordstrom

[Mark Mosconi]

Our PROBLEM is that we think that if we donate on the 30th, there will be nothing, or little left for the 16th.

The SOLUTION should be to get more people to support Ron Paul so that there's more people donating. If we can't get more supporters to help donate to cover for both of these days, in my estimation, that's almost a bigger problem than diluting the amount for the 16th by donating on the 30th. Getting more supporters helps both to help get Ron Paul elected and to help bring in extra cash to cover for both money bombs.

So to reiterate, if you're afraid of either money bomb potentially ruining the other, the solution is to GET MORE SUPPORTERS SO WE HAVE MORE PEOPLE DONATING. We can't just rely on another 36,000 people from the November 5th event trying to donate between the 2 days and expect them both to be successful. That IS unrealistic, but it ceases to be unrealistic if these 36,000 can get even ONE PERSON A PIECE to support and donate to Dr. Paul on either day. We have supporters on myspace, supporters on youtube, facebook, meetup groups, and I'd bet that every city we live in has at least a couple Ron Paul supporters who don't even know that these events are taking place. We have to reach these people and get their funds to combine with ours. The money is important, and so is the support. Why not kill 2 birds with one stone while helping to improve both moneybombs by getting more supporters involved, or getting more supporters PERIOD. We can argue over which is better, or we can use this as an opportunity to drive us to heights yet uncharted. The choice is yours.

I happen to think that success is not an option, but a necessity.

[me3]

So to reiterate, if you're afraid of either money bomb potentially ruining the other, the solution is to GET MORE SUPPORTERS SO WE HAVE MORE PEOPLE DONATING.
"You've just never heard this kind of "logic" from someone who is actually going to run the country." - Bill Maher

+1

[rooteroa]

Here's a fresh DIGG for RudysReadingList.com so get it to the frontpage!
http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/Ron_Paul_Donations_Rudys_Reading_List_Nov_30th

[rooteroa]

Can everybody digg the latest digg for this? We need to get it to the front page!

[JacobLyles]

A PROPOSAL FOR AN ALTERNATIVE METHOD OF PLEDGING $100 ON NOVEMBER 30

Instead of pledges to donate $100 on Nov.30th, How about getting pledges to donate $10 each and every day until Nov. 30 and / or Dec. 16th; or $10 each day until $100 has been contributed? (Separate checkoffs or radio buttons could be provided)?

This proposal has several virtues:

1) Keeps people involved and interested each day. Every day they will be watching the number of donations rise.

2) Builds interest factor, seeing the number of individual donations climb day by day

3) Establishes a new metric for a record (number of individual donations in a day) for media attention. As we reach record number of individual donations, the stage is set for media attention each day for yet another new record! The gift that keeps on giving!

4) Generates same amount of money by target end date for early pledgers, but campaign gets access to funds quicker.

5) As enthusiasm builds, pledgers will have reinforcement to increase their donation level or extend daily donations past the original target date they selected.

6) Allows separate focused attention on Nov.30 and Dec.16 as the consumate days for each contributor to make maximum feasible donation to achieve total funds raised records.

7) Allows media attention by the Nov.28 debates. Record numbers of donors correlate with high level of participation by Ron Paul supporters in video question submissions.

8) Avoids repeating the original problem: people hoarding dollars until the designated moneybomb day, starving campaign of reliable continuity of funds

The official campaign could facilitate the goal by providing at the donation site an option to authorize peridic contributions by credit card. This makes the actual donation automatic and easy for the contributor. Other campaigns have done this (albeit typically for monthly not daily contributions).

A promotional tagline like "STAND UP AND BE COUNTED" would, I think, key in well with this concept.

Love this idea. I would love to do this for January. If you know someone with technical skills and time, it would be great to get this website up now so people can start pledging to give $10/day in January.

[me3]

Individual fees have a higher total processing cost (cost per transaction), and create a lot more overhead for the campaign to manage (FEC reporting).

If possible, it's better to give in larger chunks. Small donations will get eaten up in fees and time to handle.

[JacobLyles]

E. Nordstrom,


I respect what everybody has done to raise money for Ron, but I remember how disappointed I was at the end of September when only 2.5 million was raised and I remember how excited people got to give to him when November 5th took off. Even my liberal roommates (marijuana-legalizers) got caught up in the spirit and gave! We can't forget the remarkable ability of moneybombs to bring in new folks. They don't just shift the timing of donations, they create new donations. That's why I like the Nov. 30th idea. If we need more money quickly, then lets make it a moneybomb.

Can't wait to see what happens on the 16th.

[sharedvoice]

E. Nordstrom,


I respect what everybody has done to raise money for Ron, but I remember how disappointed I was at the end of September when only 2.5 million was raised and I remember how excited people got to give to him when November 5th took off. Even my liberal roommates (marijuana-legalizers) got caught up in the spirit and gave! We can't forget the remarkable ability of moneybombs to bring in new folks. They don't just shift the timing of donations, they create new donations. That's why I like the Nov. 30th idea. If we need more money quickly, then lets make it a moneybomb.

Can't wait to see what happens on the 16th.

I am in for The Nov. 30th Money bomb $500 here. I WANT THE MEDIA TO SAY RUDYSREADINGLIST.COM hahahaha :eek:

[E. Nordstrom]

Most of you have taken your eye off the prize - that would be Ron Paul (not the donation drive)

Ron Paul must make news (not the donation drive)

Popularity of Ron Paul must grow (not the donation drive)

The campaign needs cash now (its best just to donate today but if one must donate in a group, the ronpaulmoneybomb.com website has over 2400 pledges and is scheduled to money bomb today the 26th of November - but for what ever reason you keep waiting again and again waiting this time for the 30th? and the 16th? it goofy and you are harming the campaign)

This is not a popularity contest this is about a candidate and his support group providing what he needs. Do not think for the campaign, react for the campaign - donate now don't wait.

Also, instead of spending all day here in the forum advertising to people who already donate, don't you think you should be out there advertising on non-political websites

Get truck drivers, union member, motocross enthusiasts, musicians, tradesmen, factory workers, surfers, you name it INVOLVED. Go to bettycrocker.com and leave a recipe for freedom, 1 part Ron Paul 100 million parts pissed of citizen.

Do something constructive. Get creative and bring in new folks.

As an online community we have topped off at around 30,000 people. We need more MANY MORE.

Donate on the 30th, donate on the 26th, donate today, donate now.

Stop trying to be a campaign. Let Ron Paul's campaign do that.
Stop trying to popularize any particular donation drive. Popularize Ron Paul.

[E. Nordstrom]

E. Nordstrom,


I respect what everybody has done to raise money for Ron, but I remember how disappointed I was at the end of September when only 2.5 million was raised and I remember how excited people got to give to him when November 5th took off. Even my liberal roommates (marijuana-legalizers) got caught up in the spirit and gave! We can't forget the remarkable ability of moneybombs to bring in new folks. They don't just shift the timing of donations, they create new donations. That's why I like the Nov. 30th idea. If we need more money quickly, then lets make it a moneybomb.

Can't wait to see what happens on the 16th.

Yeah, me too, I can't wait to see what happens on the 16th too - but if the campaign needs loot now. We need to provide it, our money bombs are not important. Winning primaries and winning the republican nomination is important.

I respect your opinion brother and I truly believe that ultimately, despite all of our minor or major disagreements here within the forum, that our combined efforts on all fronts of the rEVOLution will pay off.

America surely must wake up. We have allot more work to do.

[E. Nordstrom]

I am in for The Nov. 30th Money bomb $500 here. I WANT THE MEDIA TO SAY RUDYSREADINGLIST.COM hahahaha :eek:

Ron Paul Money Bomb www.ronpaulmoneybomb.com (http://www.ronpaulmoneybomb.com) today!!!

Come donate with us 2400 people strong weekly paycheck for Ron Paul. Help us grow as we are not a one time and vanish website!

Donate today! It's Money Bomb 6 (MB6) 26 November 2007 from 1-4pm Eastern

If you have $100 dollars to blow before payday donate $100 at www.rudysreadinglist.com (http://www.rudysreadinglist.com) and wait another 4 days - the 30th of November - Good

If you must donate in a group but don't have $100 or you don't care about pimping another drive other than the Tea Party - donate today the 26th at www.ronpaulmoneybomb.com (http://www.ronpaulmoneybomb.com) - Better

If you don't care about donation events. Just donate now. Click on this -> ronpaul2008.com (http://www.ronpaul2008.com/donate) - Best

Go!

[sharedvoice]

The most significant pledge-drive now is:

www.rudysreadinglist.com

It is very important that we hit our goal putting us over 12M. This way we can send a message to Rudy in front of MSM for his lacking Foriegn Policy knowlege, while raising some cash to spend in NH and IA.

Remember how much press we got when Rudy challenged Dr. Paul during the debate? Well, this is an effort to re-hash that debate!!

Pledge if you can this Nov 30th. INCOMING!

[Original_Intent]

Individual fees have a higher total processing cost (cost per transaction), and create a lot more overhead for the campaign to manage (FEC reporting).

If possible, it's better to give in larger chunks. Small donations will get eaten up in fees and time to handle.

/agree :)