Another shooting...at another government mandated Victim Disarmament Zone

[osan]

This one in St. Louis at a school.

Obama is going to get his gun control.

[JK/SEA]

well...time to go buy more mags...

brb

[presence]

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/at-least-one-shot-in-st-louis-business-school-shooting/article_592649ae-d2ed-5627-a175-779dc8592ec0.html

At least one shot in St. Louis business school Victim Disarmament Zone






http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/e2/6e2ee92d-13ed-545a-b1ef-2e10c12f404c/50f5baded2588.preview-620.jpg
St. Louis paramedics take a shooting victim to an ambulance after a shooting reported at
VDZ Stevens Institute of Business and Arts
in downtown St. Louis on Tuesday, Jan. 15, 2013. Photo by Joe Holleman, jholleman@post-dispatch.com

27 minutes ago • By Marlon A. Walker (http://www.stltoday.com/search/?l=50&sd=desc&s=start_time&f=html&byline=By Marlon A. Walker mwalker%40post-dispatch.com 314-340-8104)mwalker@post-dispatch.com 314-340-8104



http://maps.googleapis.com/maps/api/staticmap?center=38.6329+-90.2011&zoom=14&size=220x170&sensor=false&markers=38.6329+-90.2011 (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=38.6329+-90.2011)
Exact location of the Victim Disarmament Zone where the shooting occured.



A shooting has been reported at the VDZ Stevens Institute of Business and Arts (http://www.siba.edu/) at 1521 Washington Avenue.

At least one disarmed person was injured by the gunman who smuggled a gun into the poorly secured disarmament zone, according to police scanner traffic.

The suspected gunman, believed to be a 21-year-old man, was reported to have shot himself with an unlawfully possessed gun.

Two men were brought from the on stretchers and loaded into ambulances. One left immediately while the other was idling in front of the building.

Nearly two dozen squad cars are out around the building. Helicopters are flying overhead.

VDZSWAT teams were moving through the building ensuring each floor was clear.

Authorities have closed off Washington Avenue between 15th and 18th streets and St. Charles Avenue at 14th Street, temporarily expanding the Victim Disarmament Zone several blocks.


(http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/at-least-one-shot-in-st-louis-business-school-shooting/article_592649ae-d2ed-5627-a175-779dc8592ec0.html)

[dannno]

Watch for paid "crisis actors" on tv. This is likely another false flag.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?401436-A-smorgasbord-of-Sandy-Hook-info

[Lucille]

How convenient.

At least one shot in St. Louis business school shooting
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/at-least-one-shot-in-st-louis-business-school-shooting/article_592649ae-d2ed-5627-a175-779dc8592ec0.html

[itshappening]

Another prozac head and crisis actors?

[presence]

http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Police-Suspect-shoots-himself-in-downtown-St-Louis-school-187002071.html

Police: At least 1 person shot in downtown St. Louis Victim Disarmament Zone

http://media.kmov.com/images/130115_dtshooting_top.jpg
VIDEO AT SOURCE


by KMOV.com staff
KMOV.com
Posted on January 15, 2013 at 2:29 PM
Updated today at 2:36 PM

Police: At least 1 person shot in downtown St. Louis school (http://www.kmov.com/video/yahoo-video/187003781.html)




ST. LOUIS (KMOV) – Two people were shot during a shooting in a downtown St. Louis school Victim Disarmament Zone on Tuesday.
The shooting happened at the Stevens Institute of Business and Arts in the 1500 block of Washington near 15th St. around 2 p.m.
According to police, a suspect shot a disarmed person in his late 40s,

then shot himself in the chest.


Both the suspect and victim were transported to SLU Hospital.


Police said the suspect did not appear to suffer fatal injuries.

The condition of the disarmed victim was unknown.


According to police, everyone else was evacuated from the building, though VDZSWAT units were checking the school to make sure the building was empty.
Several ambulances and fire trucks were on scene.
Washington Ave. was completely shut down beginning at 14th Street.
Additional information was not immediately available.

[juleswin]

Watch for paid "crisis actors" on tv. This is likely another false flag.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?401436-A-smorgasbord-of-Sandy-Hook-info

Very unlikely, maybe if there had been dead children, cute dead children or even better cute blonde, female children who they can use to emotionally beat down regular Americans and even some hardcore 2nd amendment types into giving up their guns.

[James Madison]

I've been several blocks from the supposed shooting location. And I'm not surprised.

[presence]

http://localtvktvi.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/barx7a5ceaawvq7-large.jpg?w=660&h=495
http://kplr11.com/2013/01/15/active-gunman-at-stevens-business-school-in-downtown-st-louis/


Gunman & Victim Shot At VDZ Stevens Institute In Downtown St. Louis
Posted on: 2:09 pm, January 15, 2013, by Staff Writer (http://kplr11.com/author/millitzer/), updated on: 02:45pm, January 15, 2013


ST. LOUIS, MO (KTVI) – A former student opened fire at the Victim Disarmament Zone at Stevens Institute of Business and Arts in downtown St. Louis, MO. He reportedly shot one of the school’s disarmed employees on the 4th floor of the building.

The shooter is a former disarmed student at the school. He reportedly had the audicity to smuggle a gun into the disarmament zone before he went into the building and shot at one of the school’s disarmed financial advisers in the chest. He then turned the gun on himself momentarily leaving an unsecured weapon on in the disarmament zone.

The unlawfully armed shooter and the legally disarmed financial adviser are the only people who have been shot. The VDZ victim and the smuggler who fired the shots have both been rushed to the hospital. One of them has been taken to Barnes Jewish hospital.

The unlawfully armed gunman is reportedly in grave condition.

There is a tremendous police presence at the scene to reassert the victim status of all mundanes present. Authorities are clearing the building floor by floor to recertify the Victim Disarmament Zone. The scene looks calm and police appear to be in evidence gathering mode.

Washington street has been shot (sic) down because of the shooting.

This is a developing story. More disarmament details will be posted as they come in.
http://localtvktvi.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/barx7a5ceaawvq7-large.jpg?w=660&h=495 (http://localtvktvi.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/barx7a5ceaawvq7-large.jpg)

[AFPVet]

Wow... another shooting... how convenient....

[ronpaulfollower999]

"St. Louis shooting"

Isn't this like an hourly event there (not like my neck of the woods are any better)?

[presence]

2 reported shot at St. Louis business school Published January 15, 2013
FoxNews.com

DEVELOPING VICTIM DISARMAMENT ZONE SHOOTING -- Two people were reported shot at a VDZ business school in St Louis, according to Fox 2.
A criminal gunman reportedly smuggled arms into the Victim Disarmament Zone before he fired multiple shots at the Stevens Institute of Business and Arts in the city's downtown area.
According to some reports, police believe one of the victims is the suspected gunman, who they say has a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the chest. Police say the suspect is in custody.
Police and ambulances are at the scene. Authorities are reportedly reaffirming the victim disarmament zone by clearing each floor of the building.
VDZ The Stevens Institute of Business and Arts was previously known as VDZ Patricia Stevens College. There are about 200 disarmed students currently enrolled at the school awaiting to be victims.

..

[ronpaulfollower999]

The suspected gunman, believed to be a 21-year-old man, was reported to have shot himself.

They always seem to be around that age....

[John F Kennedy III]

Ban breathing. You can't use a gun to harm anyone if you can't breathe!

[libertygrl]

Looks like they let all their MKUltra zombies out of the gate and are activating their switches indiscriminately now. They are in full attack mode. Come on, this can't all be a coincidence! After 9-11 we kept hearing about more and more terrorist plots being foiled. Then it came out that they were actually providing these people with the arms and plans necessary to do harm but were stopped just in time. This is all to keep the public in a perpetual state of fear until they respond to what they want. PROBLEM - REACTION-SOLUTION. We're living in the freakin' twilight zone. I don't know how we can win this battle of social engineering.

[dannno]

They always seem to be around that age....

17-24 And girlfriendless.

[Confederate]

They always seem to be around that age....

You're approaching that age, aren't you? :/

[presence]

When this story broke it read:


There is an active gunman at VDZ Stevens Institute of Business and Arts in downtown St. Louis, MO. He is reportedly on the 4th floor of the building.

I cut an pasted that but I can't find a source any more.

[ronpaulfollower999]

You're approaching that age, aren't you? :/

Yes, and I'm also white. The ideal candidate.

[tangent4ronpaul]

They always seem to be around that age....

The really bad SSRI effects seem to only effect young, developing people - like 14-24

-t

[John F Kennedy III]

Btw, I do not accept the fairy tale that ALL OF THESE SHOOTINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED RECENTLY WERE DONE WITHOUT ANY HELP FROM THE FBI/CIA/GOVERNMENT.

It's way too convenient for all of them to be coincedence.

[Confederate]

Yes, and I'm also white. The ideal candidate.

Oh crap...maybe we should just lock you up. Just in case. It's for the children.

[presence]

Google "full coverage":

http://www.google.com/news?ncl=dexwXNXXHSz9SUM54dktIqcc1J6fM&q=st+louis+school+shooting+stevens+institute&lr=English&hl=en

[John F Kennedy III]

Looks like they let all their MKUltra zombies out of the gate and are activating their switches indiscriminately now. They are in full attack mode. Come on, this can't all be a coincidence! After 9-11 we kept hearing about more and more terrorist plots being foiled. Then it came out that they were actually providing these people with the arms and plans necessary to do harm but were stopped just in time. This is all to keep the public in a perpetual state of fear until they respond to what they want. PROBLEM - REACTION-SOLUTION. We're living in the freakin' twilight zone. I don't know how we can win this battle of social engineering.

+rep

Very well stated!

[AFPVet]

The really bad SSRI effects seem to only affect young, developing people - like 14-24

-t

Yep... teenagers and young adults are the most adversely affected.

[osan]

17-24 And girlfriendless.

Ban masturbation.

[phill4paul]

Ban masturbation.

Hell no! Encourage it. Your more than likely shooting a harmless load when "choking chicken."

[PatriotOne]

Looks like they let all their MKUltra zombies out of the gate and are activating their switches indiscriminately now. They are in full attack mode.

Exactly. There are 1000's of them that have been programmed. If a psycho kills himself after an attack then the chances are very high they were mind controlled.

[PatriotOne]

dp

[AFPVet]

dp

Yep... it's textbook programming when the shooter self-terminates.

[itshappening]

Believing in conspiracies discredits the movement

3 school shootings in a month is just random and a coincidence

[fisharmor]

Very unlikely, maybe if there had been dead children, cute dead children or even better cute blonde, female children who they can use to emotionally beat down regular Americans and even some hardcore 2nd amendment types into giving up their guns.

Yeah, they sure as hell don't care when it happens to cute black female children (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Aiyana_Jones).

[KingNothing]

I've been several blocks from the supposed shooting location. And I'm not surprised.

See a lot of CIA spooks lurking around, plotting the inside job, eh?

[James Madison]

Believing in conspiracies discredits the movement

3 school shootings in a month is just random and a coincidence

It used to be that cops would notify news stations to stop reporting bizzare murders and suicides because it would lead to copycats. Now we have 24hr news cycles advertising these things as a way to get your 15 minutes of fame.

[KingNothing]

Believing in conspiracies discredits the movement

3 school shootings in a month is just random and a coincidence

I would say it is a natural consequence of media hysteria. I predicted copy cats and I believe even posted about it on these forums. Plenty of people expected things like this.

[James Madison]

See a lot of CIA spooks lurking around, plotting the inside job, eh?

Shootings are a daily occurence in St. Louis. No need for conspiracies this time.

[coastie]

The really bad SSRI effects seem to only effect young, developing people - like 14-24

-t


Nope, one particularly crazy case comes to mind: Andrea Yates(from Wikipedia)

Andrea Yates (born Andrea Pia Kennedy on July 2, 1964) is a former Houston, Texas resident who killed her five children on June 20, 2001 by drowning them in the bathtub in her house.[1]

She was 37.
She was also taking twice the recommended dose of Effexor at the time she committed the murders(450 mg) as prescribed by her doctor. 5 years later, my wife was on that same dosage, as prescribed by hers....:eek:

It should be noted that Effexor is in a special class, as it's not a SSRI(Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor), but a SNRI(Serotonin–norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor).

You go to the doctor to "fix" your brain chemistry, only to leave with pills that fuck with you brain chemistry.... and they don't even really know how/if they work.

[Brian4Liberty]

Wow. An attempted murder in a big city? Shocking! Something must be done! It's for the children.

On an unrelated subject, this whole high-tide, low-tide thing is very dangerous. Perhaps Obama will ban tides via Executive Order.

[phill4paul]

Shootings are a daily occurence in St. Louis. No need for conspiracies this time.

Are they reported on national news? Wonder if this will be the night before Obamas address?

[tod evans]

Btw, I do not accept the fairy tale that ALL OF THESE SHOOTINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED RECENTLY WERE DONE WITHOUT ANY HELP FROM THE FBI/CIA/GOVERNMENT.

It's way too convenient for all of them to be coincedence.


Reported////

[Czolgosz]

Obama is going to get his gun control.

Let's hope so.

[Brian4Liberty]

The really bad SSRI effects seem to only effect young, developing people - like 14-24

-t

That's about the age range for schizophrenia to kick in. No doubts about that fact. The SSRIs may contribute to more or exaggerated violence in those people.

[beaven]

I'm sure that the gun man would have abstained from using his weapon had Obama issued an executive order prohibiting his ownership/use of it. Right?

[coastie]

I'm sure that the gun man would have abstained from using his weapon had Obama issued an executive order prohibiting his ownership/use of it. Right?

Correct. Clearly, this building was in violation, as it did not have big enough Gun Free Zone signs.

[James Madison]

Are they reported on national news? Wonder if this will be the night before Obamas address?

Nope. Dead urban youth, especially black urban youth, is hand-waved by the media. But young, white, middle class, and blonde, that'll stir even the most heartless of Boobus.

[AFPVet]

It used to be that cops would notify news stations to stop reporting bizzare murders and suicides because it would lead to copycats. Now we have 24hr news cycles advertising these things as a way to get your 15 minutes of fame.

Yep... you're exactly right. That's another red flag.

[NorfolkPCSolutions]

Fuck.

[sailingaway]

This one in St. Louis at a school.

Obama is going to get his gun control.

Why on earth would he get that? Were any of these shootings at OTHER than government mandated victim disarmament zones?

[libertygrl]

Believing in conspiracies discredits the movement

3 school shootings in a month is just random and a coincidence

Believing in coincidences condems us all to slavery.

[John F Kennedy III]

Believing in conspiracies discredits the movement

3 school shootings in a month is just random and a coincidence

Don't troll with that stupid bullshit. If you purge the truth from the movement, there is no movement.

[presence]

If you purge the truth from the movement, there is no movement.


Love the truth in the thread title change, op / mod !
I appropriately edited my posts on the 1st/2nd page.

[libertygrl]

Don't troll with that stupid bullshit. If you purge the truth from the movement, there is no movement.

Okay guys, let's take it easy. We're all entitled to our own opinions. Look, this stuff is not easy for people to swallow. Not everyone is willing to go down the rabbit hole yet. Some stumble into it - like myself, while for others it may take time or it will never happen. And I can understand that. It's hard for decent people to wrap their heads around such evil.

Itshappening, let just me say that many of us here don't make these comments lightly, or off the top of our heads. There's been many, many incidents throughout our history as well as declassified documents that all point to really evil and sinister govt. programs and plots. Do we have 100% proof with regards to S. Hook? Of course not. But we certainly have enough evidence that would indicate that based on the past, there is the willingness, desire, and ability to go to any lengths to achieve whatever it is they want. There are times I wish I didn't find out about all this. It's frightening and depressing. They are right when they say ignorance is bliss because knowing all this crap really SUCKS.

[presence]

\/


Not everyone is willing to go down the rabbit hole yet.
Some stumble into it - like myself,
while for others it may take time or it will never happen.
And I can understand that.
It's hard for decent people to wrap their heads around such evil.

[PatriotOne]

Don't troll with that stupid bullshit. If you purge the truth from the movement, there is no movement.

Abort! Abort! I think he was being sarcastic :p.

[satchelmcqueen]

3 in one day. i called this last week. wish id have posted it for proof. i didnt expect 3, but at least 1 more before obamas bs new laws.

[Slutter McGee]

Don't troll with that stupid bullshit. If you purge the truth from the movement, there is no movement.

Bullshit. You goddamn conspiracy theorists invade every fucking thread. Nothing happens in the world without it being caused by some mysterious powerful elite or government force.

This is the same government that we cant trust to do jack shit with any degree of effeciency. But all of a sudden they are capable of pulling off the most elaborate schemes ever devised.

And yes you are entitled to your beliefs, but since lately you all have been taking over every goddamn thread talking about paid actors and 5th shooters, and mind control and god knows what else.

Sure you have a right to speak about it, but since you marginalize anyone who disagrees as a sheep or disinfo agent or jewish troll, I say I have the right to disagree. I have the right to tell you all you are full of shit. The government is going around causing these things for their agenda. Why the fuck would they do that when there are enough crazies to do it on their own. They take advantage of these tragedies. That is all.

Finally, that movie that changed your life that you posted. What a load of fucking shit. Absolutely pathetic how stupid it was. Crop circles? Really? Crop circles? Anybody can make crop circles. Not to mention anyone that knows anything about science knows those free energy things are absolute bullshit. Thats right, I gave the movie a shot before I just couldn't take the stupidity anymore.

Goddamnit,

Slutter McGee

[John F Kennedy III]

Believing in coincidences condems us all to slavery.

+rep

[John F Kennedy III]

Okay guys, let's take it easy. We're all entitled to our own opinions. Look, this stuff is not easy for people to swallow. Not everyone is willing to go down the rabbit hole yet. Some stumble into it - like myself, while for others it may take time or it will never happen. And I can understand that. It's hard for decent people to wrap their heads around such evil.

Itshappening, let just me say that many of us here don't make these comments lightly, or off the top of our heads. There's been many, many incidents throughout our history as well as declassified documents that all point to really evil and sinister govt. programs and plots. Do we have 100% proof with regards to S. Hook? Of course not. But we certainly have enough evidence that would indicate that based on the past, there is the willingness, desire, and ability to go to any lengths to achieve whatever it is they want. There are times I wish I didn't find out about all this. It's frightening and depressing. They are right when they say ignorance is bliss because knowing all this crap really SUCKS.

This^

Which is why I don't take it lightly when some is spewing pro tyranny mindf*ck propaganda.

[John F Kennedy III]

Abort! Abort! I think he was being sarcastic :p.

It's hard to tell with so many statists and wannabe statists on here. My apologies if he was being sarcastic.

[John F Kennedy III]

Bullshit. You goddamn conspiracy theorists invade every fucking thread. Nothing happens in the world without it being caused by some mysterious powerful elite or government force.

This is the same government that we cant trust to do jack shit with any degree of effeciency. But all of a sudden they are capable of pulling off the most elaborate schemes ever devised.

And yes you are entitled to your beliefs, but since lately you all have been taking over every goddamn thread talking about paid actors and 5th shooters, and mind control and god knows what else.

Sure you have a right to speak about it, but since you marginalize anyone who disagrees as a sheep or disinfo agent or jewish troll, I say I have the right to disagree. I have the right to tell you all you are full of shit. The government is going around causing these things for their agenda. Why the fuck would they do that when there are enough crazies to do it on their own. They take advantage of these tragedies. That is all.

Finally, that movie that changed your life that you posted. What a load of fucking shit. Absolutely pathetic how stupid it was. Crop circles? Really? Crop circles? Anybody can make crop circles. Not to mention anyone that knows anything about science knows those free energy things are absolute bullshit. Thats right, I gave the movie a shot before I just couldn't take the stupidity anymore.

Goddamnit,

Slutter McGee

LOL.

Thanks for the laugh, Slut.

[Carehn]

17-24 And girlfriendless.

Girls can be hard to come by.

[John F Kennedy III]

Girls can be hard to come by.

Yeah especially when they're running away.

[KingNothing]

Bullshit. You goddamn conspiracy theorists invade every fucking thread. Nothing happens in the world without it being caused by some mysterious powerful elite or government force.

This is the same government that we cant trust to do jack shit with any degree of effeciency. But all of a sudden they are capable of pulling off the most elaborate schemes ever devised.

And yes you are entitled to your beliefs, but since lately you all have been taking over every goddamn thread talking about paid actors and 5th shooters, and mind control and god knows what else.

Sure you have a right to speak about it, but since you marginalize anyone who disagrees as a sheep or disinfo agent or jewish troll, I say I have the right to disagree. I have the right to tell you all you are full of shit. The government is going around causing these things for their agenda. Why the fuck would they do that when there are enough crazies to do it on their own. They take advantage of these tragedies. That is all.

Finally, that movie that changed your life that you posted. What a load of fucking shit. Absolutely pathetic how stupid it was. Crop circles? Really? Crop circles? Anybody can make crop circles. Not to mention anyone that knows anything about science knows those free energy things are absolute bullshit. Thats right, I gave the movie a shot before I just couldn't take the stupidity anymore.

Goddamnit,

Slutter McGee


Post of the year!!!!!!!

[brushfire]

So the current laws have helped how? So the proposed laws would have prevented this?

Where's all the child seeking 223 bullets? Where were the assault drums filled to the brim with child hating explosive hollow points?

[familydog]

Bullshit. You goddamn conspiracy theorists invade every fucking thread. Nothing happens in the world without it being caused by some mysterious powerful elite or government force.

This is the same government that we cant trust to do jack shit with any degree of effeciency. But all of a sudden they are capable of pulling off the most elaborate schemes ever devised.

And yes you are entitled to your beliefs, but since lately you all have been taking over every goddamn thread talking about paid actors and 5th shooters, and mind control and god knows what else.

Sure you have a right to speak about it, but since you marginalize anyone who disagrees as a sheep or disinfo agent or jewish troll, I say I have the right to disagree. I have the right to tell you all you are full of shit. The government is going around causing these things for their agenda. Why the fuck would they do that when there are enough crazies to do it on their own. They take advantage of these tragedies. That is all.

Finally, that movie that changed your life that you posted. What a load of fucking shit. Absolutely pathetic how stupid it was. Crop circles? Really? Crop circles? Anybody can make crop circles. Not to mention anyone that knows anything about science knows those free energy things are absolute bullshit. Thats right, I gave the movie a shot before I just couldn't take the stupidity anymore.

Goddamnit,

Slutter McGee

I think you raise an interesting point that is lost in the aggressive nature of your post. There is no way to rationalize an incompetent government incapable of handling the most basic tasks (i.e. balanced budget, implementing an actual justice system, maintaining roads, etc.) and a government that can orchestrate mass murder to push an agenda. Either government is incompetent or it is not.

The only scheme government needs to push an agenda is the very visible public school system. There is nothing clandestine about it. When you send your kid to 15,000 hours of government propaganda, they will do what the master tells them.

I am certainly not suggesting that false flag operations do not exist. But conspiracy theories are only theories for a reason.

[BlackTerrel]

This one in St. Louis at a school.

Obama is going to get his gun control.

False flag by people who oppose government mandated Victim Disarmament Zones? Cui Bono?

[Aeroneous]

Don't know if this was posted already, but apparently there was a shooting in Kentucky today, as well. If it was already posted, my apologies.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/20597136/school-shooting-in-kentucky

[John F Kennedy III]

I think you raise an interesting point that is lost in the aggressive nature of your post. There is no way to rationalize an incompetent government incapable of handling the most basic tasks (i.e. balanced budget, implementing an actual justice system, maintaining roads, etc.) and a government that can orchestrate mass murder to push an agenda. Either government is incompetent or it is not.

The only scheme government needs to push an agenda is the very visible public school system. There is nothing clandestine about it. When you send your kid to 15,000 hours of government propaganda, they will do what the master tells them.

I am certainly not suggesting that false flag operations do not exist. But conspiracy theories are only theories for a reason.

Right :rolleyes:

[osan]

goddamn conspiracy theorists... you are entitled to your beliefs... every goddamn thread... you have a right to speak... you are full of shit... I just couldn't take the stupidity anymore... Goddamnit...


Holy shit... too many grumpy pills this morning? You're all over the map.


I think you raise an interesting point that is lost in the aggressive nature of your post.

You have a knack for understatement.


There is no way to rationalize an incompetent government incapable of handling the most basic tasks (i.e. balanced budget, implementing an actual justice system, maintaining roads, etc.) and a government that can orchestrate mass murder to push an agenda. Either government is incompetent or it is not.

You both fail substantially here. There no such thing as "government" per sé. As such it is not a monobloc entity, but just a set of individuals. Given this, it is eminently plausible and even likely that there exist elements in so-called "government" who keep secrets just fine. Manhattan Project employed over 100K people and that secret was kept perfectly over the needed/desired duration. Your assertion is demonstrated to be false.


I am certainly not suggesting that false flag operations do not exist. But conspiracy theories are only theories for a reason.

These two statements are strongly contradictory. There is a nearly endless litany of proven conspiracies throughout human history. When, exactly, did people stop being people? When did they magically stop conspiring to do improper things? <crickets>

I fully agree that some people go way over the line of sane and sound reason in their speculations, but that does not invalidate others. To go ranting that conspiracies don't exist is preposterous. What was the Russian Revolution? Pearl Harbor? NAZIsm? Enron? 9/11? The list is nearly endless.

Not sure why McGee is bursting an artery over this... maybe he's just having a bad day. No big deal... we all have them. But at some point one is well behooved to collect himself again.

[familydog]

You both fail substantially here. There no such thing as "government" per sé. As such it is not a monobloc entity, but just a set of individuals. Given this, it is eminently plausible and even likely that there exist elements in so-called "government" who keep secrets just fine. Manhattan Project employed over 100K people and that secret was kept perfectly over the needed/desired duration. Your assertion is demonstrated to be false.

I agree. But try telling many people here that government is imaginary. You have to use these kinds of terms. Otherwise people freak out and derail the topic.

My point is that rather than wasting so much time devising ways government is secretly scheming, we can do things to actually make the world more free.

And again, we can't call something a "theory" if it is proven.