Question about potential registration of firearms...

[Philhelm]

If one purchases a firearm at a brick-and-mortar gun shop there is a background check done before the transaction is finalized (at least in the states of Kansas and Pennsylvania). If there is a federal registration requirement, wouldn't the Fedcoats know who purchased a weapon anyway after seizing local records?

I realize that registration leads to confiscation, but in this scenario, would it be wiser to register or not to register?

[bolil]

The background check is defacto registration. If it is approved you buy the gun, there will be a fee do people won't just go nuts with background checks for no reason. Background checks, as regards the NYSAFE act which will likely be USAFE (federal nomenclature), will also precede all ammo purchases. Certain amounts will set off "flags".

[Confederate]

Are the type of weapon and serial number submitted during a background check? Or just your personal info?

[Philhelm]

Are the type of weapon and serial number submitted during a background check? Or just your personal info?

I'm not sure, but I'm looking it up now. Here is a list of background check laws by state for anyone else who is interested.

http://fbinicsystem.com/us-gun-laws-by-state/united-states-background-check-and-gun-laws-by-state.html

[Acala]

Under current Federal law, a purchaser buying from a Federally licensed dealer (FFL) must fill out a form including personal information and specific information about the weapon. That form must be kept by the gun dealer. But BATF has access and if the dealer goes out of business BATF takes the records.

A background check is also now required for purchases from an FFL. The background check can be via the FI's NICS database OR by a State-run equivalent. The FBI is not supposed to keep any records on the identitiy of the purchasers. I don't think the specifics on the gun go in with the NICS check, but I am not sure.

[Confederate]

I'm not sure, but I'm looking it up now. Here is a list of background check laws by state for anyone else who is interested.

http://fbinicsystem.com/us-gun-laws-by-state/united-states-background-check-and-gun-laws-by-state.html

Found the info that is given during a background check for firearm transfer in Nevada:


In order to conduct the background check, Point of Sale Program staff will require the information listed below.

1. The last 5 digits of the Federal Firearm License number and name of the business.
2. The caller’s name.
3. The full name of the potential purchaser (last name, first name, middle name, suffix, maiden name or other names, if provided).
4. Potential purchaser’s state of residency.
5. Potential purchaser’s date of birth.
6. Potential purchaser’s gender (male or female).
7.Type of gun transaction (handgun or long gun).
8.Potential purchaser’s driver’s license number or identification card number.
9. State of issuance for driver’s license or identification card.
10. Potential purchaser’s country of citizenship.
11. Potential purchaser’s place of birth.
12. If the potential purchaser is not a U.S. citizen, the alien registration number or I94 number.

http://nvrepository.state.nv.us/pos.shtml

[Confederate]

The FBI is not supposed to keep any records on the identitiy of the purchasers.

The FOPA 1986 specifically bars the federal government from compiling any database on firearms but they keep them in violation of the law.

[sirgonzo420]

I'm not sure, but I'm looking it up now. Here is a list of background check laws by state for anyone else who is interested.

http://fbinicsystem.com/us-gun-laws-by-state/united-states-background-check-and-gun-laws-by-state.html

Kentucky has the most.

December 2012 checks for Kentucky were nearly double the next highest state (Texas).

Per capita, Kentucky buys more arms than anywhere in America, assuming the data that I looked at was correct.

[Danke]

Found the info that is given during a background check for firearm transfer in Nevada:

I think there is no such requirement for Mexicans, the ATF runs this program I believe.

[Confederate]

Kentucky has the most.

December 2012 checks for Kentucky were nearly double the next highest state (Texas).

Per capita, Kentucky buys more arms than anywhere in America, assuming the data that I looked at was correct.

Kentucky was crazy. Over 2 million background checks whereas second place Texas had around 1.3 million. Kentucky has 4.3 million people vs Texas' 26 million.

[Confederate]

I think there is no such requirement for Mexicans, the ATF runs this program I believe.

It's actually the opposite. The ATF only transfers firearms if you fail the background check.

[puppetmaster]

I think there is no such requirement for Mexicans, the ATF runs this program I believe.


lol.....funny shit

[Danke]

Kentucky was crazy. Over 2 million background checks whereas second place Texas had around 1.3 million. Kentucky has 4.3 million people vs Texas' 26 million.

Could be Kentuckians were just window shopping, whereas the Texans buy multiple weapons at a time. :p

[Acala]

Kentucky has the most.

December 2012 checks for Kentucky were nearly double the next highest state (Texas).

Per capita, Kentucky buys more arms than anywhere in America, assuming the data that I looked at was correct.

Not that simple. See here:

http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2011/01/nics-checks-by-state-by-month-by-year.html

Some states don't use the NICS system upon which that comparison is made AND Kentucky may be improperly using the NICS system in a manner that inflates its stats.

[Confederate]

Not that simple. See here:

http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2011/01/nics-checks-by-state-by-month-by-year.html

Some states don't use the NICS system upon which that comparison is made AND Kentucky may be improperly using the NICS system in a manner that inflates its stats.

Interesting:


At least one state, Kentucky, appears to have recently started doing monthly NICS checks on its concealed carry permits in the summer of 2006. These monthly checks have dramatically inflated Kentucky’s NICS check numbers.

Which is actually illegal (or at least not authorized by law).

[sirgonzo420]

Not that simple. See here:

http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2011/01/nics-checks-by-state-by-month-by-year.html

Some states don't use the NICS system upon which that comparison is made AND Kentucky may be improperly using the NICS system in a manner that inflates its stats.

Aha!

Thanks for that.

That explains it.

[Acala]

Aha!

Thanks for that.

That explains it.

Not that there aren't a BUNCH of fine, gun-owning patriots in Kentucky.

[pcosmar]

The FOPA 1986 specifically bars the federal government from compiling any database on firearms but they keep them in violation of the law.

:rolleyes:

ok

you believe that?

[Confederate]

:rolleyes:

ok

you believe that?

It's the law. But they flagrantly disregard it. Just like the Constitution.

[Anti Federalist]

Under current Federal law, a purchaser buying from a Federally licensed dealer (FFL) must fill out a form including personal information and specific information about the weapon. That form must be kept by the gun dealer. But BATF has access and if the dealer goes out of business BATF takes the records.

A background check is also now required for purchases from an FFL. The background check can be via the FI's NICS database OR by a State-run equivalent. The FBI is not supposed to keep any records on the identitiy of the purchasers. I don't think the specifics on the gun go in with the NICS check, but I am not sure.

ATF Form 4473 - Sometimes called the "yellow form".

Here's a link to a .pdf copy.

Yes, it is de facto registration.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

[Philhelm]

So, would I be correct in assuming that it would be pointless to not register firearms obtained in this manner, and that failure to register would only result in them "showing up at my door" anyway?

[Acala]

So, would I be correct in assuming that it would be pointless to not register firearms obtained in this manner, and that failure to register would only result in them "showing up at my door" anyway?

No. Because you can lawfully sell a weapon that you purchased in this manner without keeping any record of the sale.

Not that they won't show up at your door at some point, but you DO have a plausible, lawful explanation for why you no longer have the gun. Until they require EVERY gun transaction to go through an FFL. That is on the wish list.

[Pericles]

Kentucky has the most.

December 2012 checks for Kentucky were nearly double the next highest state (Texas).

Per capita, Kentucky buys more arms than anywhere in America, assuming the data that I looked at was correct.

Concealed permit holders are exempt from the background check, so that impacts the TX figures .... which also should impact the OP question.

[Anti Federalist]

So, would I be correct in assuming that it would be pointless to not register firearms obtained in this manner, and that failure to register would only result in them "showing up at my door" anyway?

At this point, I would recommend buying from a private seller.

You can still lawfully transfer (depending on the state) a firearm from one in state resident to another in state resident, provided that both are in fact residents of the same state and that you can attest that you are "reasonably certain" that neither the seller nor buyer is a "prohibited person" under federal law.

[Philhelm]

What's the process, in detail, of selling a rifle at, say, a gun show? I've only ever purchased from a brick-and-mortar dealer and am not familiar with the laws and processes of this.

[Confederate]

What's the process, in detail, of selling a rifle at, say, a gun show? I've only ever purchased from a brick-and-mortar dealer and am not familiar with the laws and processes of this.


There are two types of gun sales that occur at gun shows.

(1) Dealer Sales. These guns are purchased from businesses that are licensed by the Federal government. Therefore, you have to fill out the government paperwork and submit to a background check. If your state has a waiting period, then you will have to wait to pick up your gun at the dealer's place of business after the required time has passed.

(2) Private Sales. These are guns that are purchased from individuals who are not licensed. They don't need licenses, because they do not make a significant income from selling guns. Buying guns from individuals at a gun show is no different from buying them from individuals through a classified ad in the newspaper. There is no "loophole", like some deceptive politicians, or hysterical ignorants, claim. When you buy from an individual, there is no background check and no waiting period.

If you buy from a dealer you go through the regular process. It really depends on the state, though. California, for example, has banned all private sales.

[pcosmar]

At this point, I would recommend buying from a private seller.



I believe that is the "loophole" they are trying to close. :(

[pcosmar]

Concealed permit holders are exempt from the background check,

Permit holders have already been registered.

[Anti Federalist]

If you buy from a dealer you go through the regular process. It really depends on the state, though. California, for example, has banned all private sales.

This is true.

Or like NJ for instance, where you must fill out the triplicate paperwork for sales regardless of buyer or seller.

[LibForestPaul]

Found the info that is given during a background check for firearm transfer in Nevada:
Crazy question. Indians? Some have own passports. They can not buy guns?

[Confederate]

Crazy question. Indians? Some have own passports. They can not buy guns?
Their passports aren't really valid, though. They have to ask for a waiver from the State Department every time they want to use them.