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tangent4ronpaul
01-14-2013, 10:47 AM
http://money.cnn.com/2013/01/14/news/economy/nursing-jobs-new-grads/

Since the recession, health care has been the single biggest sector for job growth, but that doesn't mean it's easy to get hired.

Registered nurses fresh out of school are coming across thousands of job postings with an impossible requirement: "no new grads."

It's a problem well documented by the nursing industry. About 43% of newly licensed RNs still do not have jobs within 18 months after graduation, according to a survey conducted by the American Society of Registered Nurses.

"The process has become more and more discouraging, especially since hospitals want RNs with experience, yet nobody is willing to give us this experience," said Ronak Soliemannjad, 26, who has been searching for a nursing job since she graduated in June.

New grads have taken to posting their frustrations on allnurses.com, a social network for nurses.

"It is a tough market for a new grad RN. A 'year experience required' or 'not considering new grads at this time' is pretty much the norm," wrote one.

"It's like new grads have a disease or something," said another.

How can this be, at a time when health care jobs are booming and a supposed shortage of RNs sent many career seekers running to nursing school?

The recession is to blame, says Peter Buerhaus, a registered nurse and economist who teaches at the Vanderbilt University School of Nursing. In a paper he co-authored in the New England Journal of Medicine last year, he shows an interesting phenomenon happens in the demographics of the nursing workforce when the economy is weak.

About 90% of nurses are women, 60% are married, and roughly a quarter are over 50 years old. It's typical for many nurses to take time off to raise children in their 30s, and given the long days spent working on their feet, many often retire in their late 50s.

Prior to the recession, about 73,000 nurses left the profession each year due to childbearing, retirement, burning out or death.

But when the recession hit, spouses lost jobs, 401(k)s lost money, and facing financial uncertainty, fewer nurses chose to leave work, Buerhaus said.

"Many of those nurses are still in the workforce, and they're not leaving because we don't see a convincing jobs recovery yet," Buerhaus said. "They're clogging the market and making it harder for these new RNs to get a job."

Related: I can't find a nursing job!

At the same time, enrollment in nursing colleges has exploded in recent years. In the 2010-2011 school year, 169,000 people were enrolled in entry-level baccalaureate nursing programs. That's more than double the 78,000 students from a decade earlier, according to the American Association of Colleges of Nursing.

There just aren't enough jobs to go around for all these new grads.

Annah Karam heads recruiting for six hospitals in the Daughters of Charity Health System in Los Angeles. Each hospital has a program in place aimed at hiring at least 10 new grads a year, but the competition is fierce. Karam often receives more than 1,000 applications for each post. For other positions, the hospitals prefer experienced nurses.

"We're new grad friendly but with the challenges we face in the hospital world, we often need seasoned nurses," Karam said. "We hire thousands of nurses across the whole system, yet a very small percentage are new grads."

Eventually, nursing grads should have great job prospects.

Demand for health care services is expected to climb as more baby boomers retire and health care reform makes medical care accessible to more people. As older nurses start retiring, economists predict a massive nursing shortage will reemerge in the United States.

"We've been really worried about the future workforce because we've got almost 900,000 nurses over the age of 50 who will probably retire this decade, and we'll have to replace them," Buerhaus said.

But for recent grads like Soliemannjad, that's not particularly encouraging.

"It just seems that when the experts talk about the economy getting better, they're not talking about it improving in two or three months. They're talking about years," she said. "You have new grads with student loans to pay off. We simply can't not work for another year and half."

-t

phill4paul
01-14-2013, 10:53 AM
Yet, we will not see federal grants to this diploma mill curtailed.

specsaregood
01-14-2013, 10:57 AM
I'll have to update this thread when the new RN in our family finds her first job. Just waiting on the GD govt to make it all official. We'll see how long it takes...

AFPVet
01-14-2013, 11:04 AM
It's like this in all degree fields. You have to gain experience somehow... for BSNs, they have to start as a CNA or MA... something that gets them field experience. You have to get your foot in the door doing something before your degree is useful.

coastie
01-14-2013, 01:09 PM
Glad I switched my major from nursing to digital media. Not that I'm having any high hopes for digital media at the moment, just saying because I would've been done last semester with nursing, and probably still unemployed. I know three people off the top of my head still looking for work as RN's, 2 graduated last year and one of them graduated 2 yrs ago. They all work at the same restaurant/bar now.

Brian4Liberty
01-14-2013, 01:25 PM
Imported nurses wouldn't have anything to do with this.

Brian4Liberty
01-14-2013, 01:32 PM
It's like this in all degree fields. You have to gain experience somehow...

Yes, that has always been the case. But there was a major change in the past 20 years or so. It used to be that many employers did have entry level positions for fresh college grads. The employers had close relationships with colleges that had the majors they were interested in. They recruited and interviewed seniors before graduation. Those programs hardly exist anymore. They want "experienced" and less expensive imported workers. Often, the "experienced" requirement is just an excuse to get the "cheap" labor.

Warrior_of_Freedom
01-14-2013, 02:34 PM
yeah I graduated from college (not nursing) and every time I see a job listing it has some ridiculous requirement like "At least 8 years of professional experience" Yeah ok , so you're telling me I need to be in my 30's to get a job? Get outta here. I just do work under my own name for clients now.

VoluntaryAmerican
01-14-2013, 02:38 PM
Too many "professionals", not enough entrepreneurship.

Thank you,

Fed. loans and public education propaganda.

erowe1
01-14-2013, 02:41 PM
I think they can get their foot in the door working at a nursing home to get that year of experience. A lot of them just don't want to do that.

VoluntaryAmerican
01-14-2013, 02:50 PM
I think they can get their foot in the door working at a nursing home to get that year of experience. A lot of them just don't want to do that.

You're right.

However, if the average nursing major was anything like my ex-girlfriend... she had no intentions of doing that. She thought she would be set for life just after getting her nursing degree.

I tried explaining all of this to her, but she lacked a lot of common sense and sucked up too much propaganda.

AFPVet
01-14-2013, 02:50 PM
I think they can get their foot in the door working at a nursing home to get that year of experience. A lot of them just don't want to do that.

Exactly

VoluntaryAmerican
01-14-2013, 02:56 PM
Glad I switched my major from nursing to digital media. Not that I'm having any high hopes for digital media at the moment,

Check this out:

www.journalismjobs.com

Web editor is a good foot in the door for a young person in the journalism field. (if you know the right programs/have the skills)

Brian4Liberty
01-14-2013, 03:37 PM
I think they can get their foot in the door working at a nursing home to get that year of experience. A lot of them just don't want to do that.


You're right.

However, if the average nursing major was anything like my ex-girlfriend... she had no intentions of doing that. She thought she would be set for life just after getting her nursing degree.

I tried explaining all of this to her, but she lacked a lot of common sense and sucked up too much propaganda.

Nursing students I used to know volunteered at nursing homes. Which lead to a running joke for all of us that our first jobs out of college would be "Fecal Impaction Technician". ;)

nobody's_hero
01-14-2013, 03:58 PM
I think it depends on where you're at. I'm a nurse and I did have to take a pretty low entry job, part time, on one of the busiest (stressful) floors at a local hospital. No one stays there for long, so there's always openings.

The biggest problem is that there are about 3 or 4 colleges in my area that, when combined, churn out about 250 new nursing grads in the summer, and maybe 150 in the winter, which tends to lead to seasonal 'flooding' of the market. (and those are just RNs, the tech schools churn out nearly as many LPNs). Turnover rate is high in hospitals, though. Most folks want to get in a year or so of experience at a hospital and then go find a nice quiet doctor's office to work at.

Had a buddy of mine I graduated with get hired on at a small hospital ER, fresh out of college.

AFPVet
01-14-2013, 04:13 PM
The retirement community that I worked HR for hired new nurses fresh out of most nursing schools, but not from one local college (for some reason). Every organization is different; however, more and more are leaning towards requiring field experience for everything.

specsaregood
01-14-2013, 04:22 PM
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nobody's_hero
01-14-2013, 04:35 PM
So you guys with actual experience in the field tell me if this is bullshit, cuz this is what i'm hearing.

Most of the hospitals in the area have an internal requirement where they hire a minimum % new hires as new grads. My wife could get a job at a nursing home pretty easily (new grad) but she is claiming that the hospitals actually look down on the nursing home experience and if you go into that right out of school you actually go to the bottom of the list because a year later if you apply the new grads get preference for the hospitals jobs. note: this is what others are telling her, she wouldn't mind the nursing home work for a year, but is afraid it will hurt her chances of getting hired at a hospital in a year or so.

Nursing homes don't really equate to hospitals. If you read the fine print, what most healthcare employers are looking for in terms of experience is one year of "med-surgical" experience on a hospital floor.

The education-industrial complex has really hit the healthcare industry hard. One hospital in central Georgia has driven out all of its LPNs, and now does not hire RNs unless you have a bachelor's degree.

The result? . . . Hundreds of experienced nurses were forced to either go back to school for a higher degree or get sacked. So you have all these new grads with bachelor's degrees and NO REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE (I was one of those) who take precedence over nurses who have been doing this their whole lives.

Right now I'm working at a hospital that still values LPNs. I'm an RN with a 4-year degree and would not hesitate to ask an LPN a question if I were stumped, even though the education-industrial complex frowns down on that. Basically, "They have a lesser degree, they cant teach you anything." (That's the bullshit part).

At the rate things are going, you'll have to have 2 doctorate degrees to empty the trash-cans in patient's rooms. The education bubble is long-overdue to pop.

The biggest difference between an RN with an associate degree and an RN with a bachelor's degree is that the bachelor's program teaches you research, education, and management aspects—all of which are useless when you have a patient crashing on the ER bed.

specsaregood
01-14-2013, 04:55 PM
Nursing homes don't really equate to hospitals. If you read the fine print, what most healthcare employers are looking for in terms of experience is one year of "med-surgical" experience on a hospital floor.


So, are you saying it might very well be a valid argument towards not taking the first decent job offered, working a year then applying to hospitals if your endgoal is to work at a hospital?

erowe1
01-14-2013, 04:59 PM
So, are you saying it might very well be a valid argument towards not taking the first decent job offered, working a year then applying to hospitals if your endgoal is to work at a hospital?

When you say "working a year," do you mean working in an unrelated field?

specsaregood
01-14-2013, 05:07 PM
When you say "working a year," do you mean working in an unrelated field?

No, as an RN at a nursing home or whatever other options there are.

erowe1
01-14-2013, 05:12 PM
No, as an RN at a nursing home or whatever other options there are.

I'm confused by your sentence. Was the "not" meant to negate everything up to the end of the sentence, or just up to the comma, followed by and understood "and intead"?

gerryb1
01-14-2013, 05:13 PM
No, as an RN at a nursing home or whatever other options there are.

It sounds like it isn't frowned upon, but also that it won't help in qualifying as experience the hospital wants.

BAllen
01-14-2013, 07:16 PM
So, what is a pysicians assitant? An RN with a masters?

MelissaWV
01-14-2013, 07:25 PM
You have to actually know what you want to do. Frankly, the nurses I work with daily work in home health because our agency is affiliated with a respected hospital, so even if it's not the same as the hospital experience, they will have their foot in the door and various experiences to talk about. Nursing homes are not the same thing, and frankly there is a reason it's not really respected at the moment.

If you get "in" at a spoke of a major hospital network, you can work to move to wherever you want. In the meantime you will be working, paying down your loans, and you would be surprised the experience you can gain. No, it's not the same as someone crashing in an ER. Of course, when you're in an ER, you have all that charming equipment. When you're a home health nurse, you just show up and someone drops over and you have to figure out why, what you can do, call for help, and keep the person going all on your own.

With any degree or any career goal, people will still get hired. It's just not a "guaranteed" job with huge pay and magical benefits. People doing that are idiots anyhow. How many --- be honest --- filthy rich NURSES do you know?

Brian4Liberty
01-15-2013, 12:45 PM
When you're a home health nurse, you just show up and someone drops over and you have to figure out why, what you can do, call for help, and keep the person going all on your own.


A story about a home care nurse.

An elderly in-law fell and couldn't get up. Too much pain. Ambulance, emergency room, x-rays and they determine she had cracked her hip. She had previously cracked the other side of her hip and had surgery, so she knew what to expect. She said the pain was much worse this time, and she could hardly move. They do the hip surgery, and then send her to a nursing home to recover after a couple of days in the hospital, because her recovery is going slow for some reason. After a week she gets home, but then it gets worse again.

So after being seen by emergency room doctors and personnel, a variety of hospital nurses, a surgeon, her normal doctor and nursing home staff, it was finally the home care nurse who made the proper diagnosis: she had thrown out her back in the fall. The cracked hip was not the source of the pain. She got better pretty quick on advise from the home care nurse. As for the patient, she had never thrown her back out in her entire life, so she had no idea what the intense pain was all about. Now anyone who has thrown out their back out knows exactly what she was feeling, and the only cure is rest. The hospital had wanted her to do exercises for recovery from the hip surgery, which kept irritating her back.

tangent4ronpaul
01-15-2013, 01:28 PM
So, what is a pysicians assitant? An RN with a masters?

A PA is someone that does pre-med and instead of going to medical school, goes to PA school which is like medical school lite. It's faster, doesn't have as much depth and is cheaper. You are then allowed to work under a doctors license and can do anything the MD can.

Nurses can go to school to get a masters and end up as a NP, or nurse practitioner. Again, they can work under a MD's license and can do whatever a doc can.

The education for these two paths is VERY different!

-t

specsaregood
01-15-2013, 01:41 PM
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