Armed Neighborhood Fortress called Citadel

[cbrons]

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b566/cbrons/Clipboard01dasdsda_zpsb63382ee.jpg

How many people want to bet the Fedcoats burn it down?

From: http://cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwyn-williams-jr/patriotic-group-build-armed-defensible-neighborhood-fortress

A group of like-minded patriots, bound together by pride in American exceptionalism, plan on building an armed community to protect their liberty.

The group, named Citadel, intends to purchase 2,000 to 3,000 acres for the project in western Idaho. The community will comprise of 3,500 to 7,000 families of patriotic Americans who "voluntarily choose to live together in accordance with Thomas Jefferson's ideal of Rightful Liberty."

According to the Citadel website, Rightful Liberty means that "neighbors keep their noses out of other neighbors' business, that neighbors live and let live."

Citadel explains that residents in the community will be bound by the following:

Patriotism
Pride in American Exceptionalism
Our proud history of Liberty as defined by our Founding Fathers, and
Physical preparedness to survive and prevail in the face of natural catastrophes --such as Hurricanes Sandy or Katrina -- or man-made catastrophes such as a power grid failure or economic collapse.

Residents should also agree that being "prepared for the emergencies of life and being proficient with the American icon of Liberty -- the Rifle -- are prudent measures."

Some of the benefits of the Citadel community include a safe, well-prepared, patriotic community where children will be educated in school, not indoctrinated.

The community will be protected by a perimeter wall that will be inaccessible to "tourists." Each neighborhood within the community will have lower walls, dividing the town into defensible sections.

The website has a link to applications where prospective residents can sign up. According to Citadel, more than 200 families have completed applications, even before any land has been purchased.

While Citadel may sound wonderful to many who are reading this, the community has posted a warning on their home page:

"Marxists, Socialists, Liberals and Establishment Republicans will likely find that life in our community is incompatible with their existing ideology and preferred lifestyles."

Citadel says that every patriot selected to live within the community "will voluntarily agree to follow the footsteps of our Founding Fathers by swearing to one another our lives, our fortunes and our Sacred Honor to defend one another and Liberty against all enemies, foreign and domestic."

[Pauls' Revere]

money bomb to help establish it?

[Philhelm]

Waco II?

[Occam's Banana]

Assuming this effort gets any traction, I wonder how long it will be before MSM outlets start referring to this place as a "compound" ...

[Tod]

Assuming this effort gets any traction, I wonder how long it will be before MSM outlets start referring to this place as a "compound" ...

It will be called a compound as soon as they get their grimy little hands on the thing.

[Keith and stuff]

It will be called a compound as soon as they get their grimy little hands on the thing.

I am pretty sure the self chosen name of citadel sounds scarier than compound. The facts that it is planned to have gun towers and a gun factory don't help with PR either :)

[CaptUSA]

Thanks, Drudge.

If a place like that were ever really to exist, you just ruined them. Imagine if Galt went around advertising the gulch. lol.

[Restore America Now]

I saw this on Colbert (although of course, he ridiculed it). This is definetly something to keep an eye on...

[PaulConventionWV]

Sounds like The Village.

[cbrons]

Waco II?

Haha exactly what I said.


Sounds like The Village.

What is that?

[PaulConventionWV]

I am pretty sure the self chosen name of citadel sounds scarier than compound. The facts that it is planned to have gun towers and a gun factory don't help with PR either :)

... you say, as if this measure was meant for PR.

[PaulConventionWV]

Haha exactly what I said.



What is that?

A movie made in 2004.

[TheTexan]

I'm not sure exactly what the point of the walls are. May be useful in the event of a zombie apocalypse, but that's about it

[Carehn]

I don't like the Idea of this. Its fake. something is not right about it. Its to.... It dose not seam to me (and I hope I'm wrong) that the makers and just guessing the buyers of this place have a good understanding of liberty....

This will be the most epic straw man ever!!!

[PaulConventionWV]

I'm not sure exactly what the point of the walls are. May be useful in the event of a zombie apocalypse, but that's about it

Probably to prevent another Waco.

[PaulConventionWV]

I don't like the Idea of this. Its fake. something is not right about it. Its to.... It dose not seam to me (and I hope I'm wrong) that the makers and just guessing the buyers of this place have a good understanding of liberty....

This will be the most epic straw man ever!!!

Jump to conclusions much?

[James Madison]

Probably to prevent another Waco.

There's a reason we stopped building castles 500 years ago.

[TywinLannister]

Haha exactly what I said.



What is that?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14eUKogPF7s

[phill4paul]

Pride in American Exceptionalism

I'm out without reading farther..............

[jdcole]

Their FAQ answers a lot of questions, for sure: http://iiicitadel.com/faq.html

[idiom]

I wonder if the ethnic composition will reflect 'pride' and 'exceptionalism'...

[jdcole]

What About Racial Diversity?
Rightful Liberty knows no racial barriers. We care not from which part of the globe you or your ancestors originated. We care only that you adhere to the Patriot Agreement.

What About Religion?
Rightful Liberty knows no religious barriers.
Space will be limited within the walls of the Citadel for building houses of worship. There will be plenty of space outside the walls.

Are You a Bunch of Wackos/Cultists/Racists... etc.?
Actually, quite the opposite. Rightful Liberty is a very tolerant, live and let live philosophy. We stand fully against extremists and all prejudicial philosophies. Those types of people would not be comfortable around us.

What is Jefferson's Rightful Liberty
"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others." ~ Thomas Jefferson

[PaulConventionWV]

There's a reason we stopped building castles 500 years ago.

Why is that?

[gerryb1]

Why is that?

cannons

[Demigod]

cannons

There were fortresses up until after WW II.They were not the movie "design" with tall walls and gates though.Sevastopol is a good example of a city fortress.

[ClydeCoulter]

And some fortresses are built deep, so there are bunker busters, etc...

[compromise]

What About Racial Diversity?
Rightful Liberty knows no racial barriers. We care not from which part of the globe you or your ancestors originated. We care only that you adhere to the Patriot Agreement.

What About Religion?
Rightful Liberty knows no religious barriers.
Space will be limited within the walls of the Citadel for building houses of worship. There will be plenty of space outside the walls.

Are You a Bunch of Wackos/Cultists/Racists... etc.?
Actually, quite the opposite. Rightful Liberty is a very tolerant, live and let live philosophy. We stand fully against extremists and all prejudicial philosophies. Those types of people would not be comfortable around us.

What is Jefferson's Rightful Liberty
"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others." ~ Thomas Jefferson
Sounds pretty good to me. I don't think it will work out too well though. Locking yourself in a "citadel" makes trade pretty difficult.

[cheapseats]

Locking yourself in a "citadel" makes trade pretty difficult.


Business boomed in the Green Zone throughout the ill-conceived, ill-executed Iraq War...and supplies always make it into the sprawling embassy "we" built there (largest and most expensive ever built, anywhere, by anyone, in the history of diplomacy).

[Aeroneous]

Business boomed in the Green Zone throughout the ill-conceived, ill-executed Iraq War...and supplies always make it into the sprawling embassy "we" built there (largest and most expensive ever built, anywhere, by anyone, in the history of diplomacy).

I think the big difference here is that the embassy you mentioned was supplied by the government, whereas this citadel won't have such a tremendous organization backing it logistically.

I'm sure they can figure out a way, though. I get the impression that they're hoping to be completely self sufficient.

[cheapseats]

It will be called a compound as soon as they get their grimy little hands on the thing.


Sounds like a compound to me. So WHAT?

Rather than allow the word COMPOUND to imply wrong/illegal/dangerous, OWN IT. I draw attention to the preponderance of GATED COMMUNITIES among the Wealthy. Ask whether Limousine Liberals & Scaredy Cats would FEEL more comfortable if this is called a WALLED COMMUNITY. Ask what IS the difference between a Gated Community and a Walled Community. GUNS, they will accuse. MEDIAN INCOME, accuse right back.

[cheapseats]

I think the big difference here is that the embassy you mentioned was supplied by the government, whereas this citadel won't have such a tremendous organization backing it logistically.

I'm sure they can figure out a way, though. I get the impression that they're hoping to be completely self sufficient.


Government has failed utterly, spectacularly and steadily FAILED, to keep drugs from Druggies.

[tod evans]

Sounds pretty good to me. I don't think it will work out too well though. Locking yourself in a "citadel" makes trade pretty difficult.

I would hope the purpose of "locking ones self in" would be to effectively avoid such things as the state and federal "Just-Us" system...

Emissaries could of course venture into the "wild" in order to deal with the rest of the country..

I could see such a place as a net positive until the government decides they're using too many pain-killers or too much gun powder....It's almost certain that "inspectors" would be sent to assure the safety of those involved...:rolleyes:

[cheapseats]

I think the big difference here is that the embassy you mentioned was supplied by the government, whereas this citadel won't have such a tremendous organization backing it logistically.

On the other hand, "our" government supplies were getting through a real-time WAR ZONE.

Granted, our government can make a war zone here...just like they made a war zone there...but they don't WANT a stateside war zone.

[cheapseats]

I'm not sure exactly what the point of the walls are.




I'm sure they can figure out a way, though. I get the impression that they're hoping to be completely self sufficient.




Emissaries could of course venture into the "wild" in order to deal with the rest of the country..



Maybe only as self-sufficient as the Amish...with their are-you-effing-kidding-me AMISH MAFIA "reality teevee" show.

[Aeroneous]

Government has failed utterly, spectacularly and steadily FAILED, to keep drugs from Druggies.


On the other hand, "our" government supplies were getting through a real-time WAR ZONE.

Granted, our government can make a war zone here...just like they made a war zone there...but they don't WANT a stateside war zone.

Valid points. All I was saying is that the government was pushing supplies to the embassy, whereas this citadel won't have a major logistics supplier working so diligently to get things to them. The government won't be able to prevent supplies getting there, but I bet they won't be very enthusiastic about helping them get there.

[itshappening]

Can we rename it Paulville?

[cheapseats]

There's a reason we stopped building castles 500 years ago.


America was never castle-happy. EUROPE, on the other hand...

"Modern" Aristocrats can and do complain about the energy, upkeep, insurance AND TAX expenses associated with castles, but imagine BUILDING castles without slave labor. MANSIONS will have to do, if labor must be PAID.

[Victor Grey]

"intends to purchase 2,000 to 3,000 acres"

"community will comprise of 3,500 to 7,000 families"

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OAiAq5iXxtk/TudnegV88kI/AAAAAAAACSM/0u1WqBCOJ8o/s1600/bush-huh.jpg

Sounds cramped.

Edit: 3000 acres for ~5000 families. Families, not individual people. Housing area, roadways, utilities deducted from that amount.
Businesses, and other structures. Defensive structures more area taken.

Fortress doesn't work if it starves in 2 weeks. No different than any other city.

[matt0611]

Sounds awesome to me.

[cheapseats]

I wonder if the ethnic composition will reflect 'pride' and 'exceptionalism'...


Pride in American Exceptionalism
I'm out without reading farther..............


More like, I'm NOT IN.

THAT Intentional Community doesn't sound right for ME. But it sounds FINE + NONE OF MY BEESWAX for people with whom it DOES resonate.

China Town, Little Tokyo, Little ETHIOPIA, to name but three ethnic concentrations in Los Angeles that get NO grief from PeeCee Police. Armenians go to Glendale. (Rich) Persians & (rich) Jews both favor Beverly Hills. Bel-Air has BIG GATES.

Take a gander at how "public" streets in LAFAYETTE PARK in Los Angeles, with "old world" mansions now (sadly) bordering a dodgy DARK-COMPLECTED 'hood, are simply gated to thru-traffic. Carthay Circle and West Hollywood use cement blockades to inhibit thru-traffic AND OUTSIDERS on roads paved and maintained with taxpayer funds.

[Aeroneous]

"intends to purchase 2,000 to 3,000 acres"

"community will comprise of 3,500 to 7,000 families"

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OAiAq5iXxtk/TudnegV88kI/AAAAAAAACSM/0u1WqBCOJ8o/s1600/bush-huh.jpg

Edit: 3000 acres for ~5000 families. Families. Not people, families. Housing area, roadways, utilities deducted from that amount.
Sounds cramped.

Fortress doesn't work if it starves.

I don't know... even if you consider 2000 acres with 7000 families that's .285 acres per family. It sounds like this citadel would be the type to want limited government within their community and limited property for that government. Even if you reserved 600 of those 2000 acres for infrastructure, that's still .2 acres per family. Plenty of cities operate on much smaller land per unit.

[Victor Grey]

I don't know... even if you consider 2000 acres with 7000 families that's .285 acres per family. It sounds like this citadel would be the type to want limited government within their community and limited property for that government. Even if you reserved 600 of those 2000 acres for infrastructure, that's still .2 acres per family. Plenty of cities operate on much smaller land per unit.

Cities, cites. That's the word, not fortress. City, starves in 2 or 3 weeks. That isn't a fortress. That is merely another city, with people residing in it. Those are everywhere.

They ever wanted to declare any sort of autonomy, which the whole reason they claim they want to do the project, the feds would merely have to roadblock it in for around 10 days with about 150 leo, and they'd all come out for a free cup of ramen noodles and bottle of drinking water.

They want to do a housing project, they can set up apartments and have twice that concentration of people.
That isn't a fortress for declaring independent self-rule.

[Adrock]

The walls set off major alarm bells for me.

[matt0611]

I'm out without reading farther..............

From their website:

The Citadel is not profit-driven. The Citadel is Liberty-driven: specifically Thomas Jefferson's Rightful Liberty.

Marxists, Socialists, Liberals and Establishment Republicans will likely find that life in our community is incompatible with their existing ideology and preferred lifestyles.

My interest is increasing.

[Aeroneous]

Cities, cites. That's the word, not fortress. City, starves in 2 or 3 weeks. That isn't a fortress. That is merely another city, with people residing in it. Those are everywhere.

They ever wanted to declare any sort of autonomy, which the whole reason they claim they want to do the project, the feds would merely have to roadblock it in for around 10 days with about 150 leo, and they'd all come out for a free cup of ramen noodles and bottle of drinking water.

They want to do a housing project, they can set up apartments and have twice that concentration of people.
That isn't a fortress for declaring independent self-rule.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV9CCxdkOng

You've probably seen that before, but my point is that I think it could be done on the land they're proposing. I'm sure when they get into more of the specifics, the land amount will probably go toward the higher end and the family number will probably go toward the lower end.

[familydog]

The phrase "American exceptionalism" scares me. What does that even mean in context of this citadel?

The walls? I am reminded of Ron Paul saying that walls along a border can and will be used to keep people in as much as keep people out.

[Demigod]

If they are smart they would build it by the sea with a port.Everything else would have no point.

[Lucille]

Check out what comes with the house:


Every Citadel home will come with a 2,500 gallon water tank, a one year supply of food for either 1 or 2 adults, 1 or 2 AR15-variant rifles and 1,000 rounds of ammunition per rifle, a generator, a composting toilet, a vault, a protective Safe Room. If you are bringing more than 2 adults, additional ARs, ammunition and food will be added for a tiny fee. Remember, your home requires zero down payment, zero interest, no background check and no credit check... and your Lease is for Life.

If this doesn't bring the feds to the gate, nothing will:


Additionally, we plan on forming our own bank that will issue Citadel coins in silver and gold.

[osan]

Waco II?

Depends on how things evolve. If they get 7000 FAMILIES signed on, which would surprise me (God may I be surprised) and assuming only 2 adults per family, that makes a community of 14,000 like-minded adults. That is about 100 times the size of the Branch Davidian population and would be a significantly bigger bite for "them" to take in order to remove them from the roles of the living as they did in Waco.

I note they make no insane religious requirements, which speaks to their credit and gives "them" one less pretext for interference... not that they really give a damn about such things anymore. For my money, however, 3000 acres for 7000 families is very congested - but then, I live on a farm and am surrounded by tens of thousands of mostly empty acres, save for my neighbors and the cattle. For that many families, I would probably be looking to obtain at least 50K acres, preferably 70K on the estimation of 10 acres per family average. They will need farms and other open spaces, so the goal of 3K is very low for that head count, not to forget the children which stands to run the population of the community to ca. 30K. That is a very goodly sized town and 100 sq. miles of area would be about the minimum when food supplies are taken into consideration, especially if livestock for meat is to be raised, in which case I would add about another 10 or more square miles because cattle, for example, need lots of space. The ranch I almost bought in NM years ago was 5300 acres and rated for something like 230 cattle units, which is 1 cow +/- calf per unit plus. That was for an 8 square mile ranch full of buffalo- and grama grass, though not all of it was pasture. I do, BTW, regret not having bought that place... water under the bridge and all that. :)

I have had ideas like this running through my head for over 30 years - it is good to see someone attempting it.

[JK/SEA]

I'm out without reading farther..............

this.

[osan]

Sounds like The Village.

Where am I?

The Village.

What do you want?

Information... IN FOR MATION...

You won't get it!

We WILL. By hook. Or by crook...

...

Who are you?

I, am Number Two.

Who is Number 1?

You... are Number 6.

I am not a number! I am a FREE MAN!


BWAAAAAAA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA...

[Demigod]

These guys a building a theme park

http://iiicitadel.com/images/aerialConcept_lg.jpg

[osan]

I'm not sure exactly what the point of the walls are. May be useful in the event of a zombie apocalypse, but that's about it

Not to mention a terrible waste of money... But as you imply, it depends on whom they expect to have to defend themselves. If US forces, forget it, what with mortars, artillery, and aircraft lobbing ordnance on top of you from above. I might see use against hordes of sub/urbanites, but those sorts would never make it that far into the boonies... they would all perish of various causes long before that, IMO. I'd call walls a supreme waste of money which would be better spent elsewhere.

Anyhow, the more I think of this, the less likely it seems it will go anywhere - humans being what they are. I would call it far more promising if the people were pledged to live the lifestyle of, say, a plains-Indian tribe. Sedentary life is not terribly conducive to liberty, but given the realities of taxation, one cannot buy 100K acres and simply disappear on it. The "authorities" will be waiting for their yearly pound of flesh. So much for the notion that America is a free nation.

Like it or not, we are all slaves - a truth that cannot be escaped regardless of how we may try. We don't have monkeys on our backs, we have full-adult gray-backs riding us unto our utter depletion. We're in it so deep, most people have no hope of ever seeing it.

[tod evans]

As has been mentioned there seems to be a lack of farm land, livestock range and either a lake or river....

[osan]

Pride in American Exceptionalism


I'm out without reading farther..............

That bit caught my attention as well. Could be OK... could be shyte... it is undefined, so it could perhaps mean anything. This apparent carelessness with language is not a good sign. Establishing a free community/nation/what-have-you is not a simple matter of money and fuzzy notions of like-mindedness. It requires vast smarts - towering knowledge of a very comprehensive nature and a very strong understanding of certain human proclivities which are highly CONTEXT DRIVEN. Place a human being in a jungle tribe in the Amazon and you get one outcome. Place that same person in a tenement on 125th St. and Adam Clayton Powell Blvd. and something very different is likely to emerge.

Unless you design such a community with an overbearing awareness of human nature, you are going to devolve into the same state of entropy in which we now exist. As we all witness, money does NOTHING to prevent or correct this. It does, in fact, make it worse... not because of the nature of money, but rather the choices made by the people wielding it.

One cannot be free and be stupid at the same time. The two are mutually antagonistic to the point of exclusivity in the longer term. The more complicated a living arrangement becomes and the more "crowded", the greater the necessary minimal level of intellectual sophistication and smarts, not to mention attitude.

Entropy is the law of the land and this truth is made apparent in human affairs. The less MATERIAL entropy that exists in the human environment (i.e., the more complicated it is, e.g. high rises, aircraft, computer networks, automobiles) the greater the entropic drive upon interpersonal relations. It is a weird and almost paradoxical phenomenon. The farther we stray from "natural" levels of material entropy, the more entropic becomes our relationships with other people. The more orderly the material manifestations of a society of men becomes, the seemingly more disorderly our relations with one another in the sense that respect for the individual suffers miserably. We are at an all-time low in those terms when looked upon with our eyes focused most globally. The worst of it is that the tyrant has learned from the mistakes of his forbears. He is now coating his despotic acts with veneers of bullshit that fool the average lowatt intellect into accession. Their minds are either incapable of identifying the fact that they are being fed lines of shyte, or they choose not to because to do so would demand action they find too inconvenient to their petty desires.

The bottom line, as I have written here countless times before, is that pretty slavery is far and away more appealing to the average man than is freedom.

[Demigod]

Not to mention a terrible waste of money... But as you imply, it depends on whom they expect to have to defend themselves. If US forces, forget it, what with mortars, artillery, and aircraft lobbing ordnance on top of you from above. I might see use against hordes of sub/urbanites, but those sorts would never make it that far into the boonies... they would all perish of various causes long before that, IMO. I'd call walls a supreme waste of money which would be better spent elsewhere.

Anyhow, the more I think of this, the less likely it seems it will go anywhere - humans being what they are. I would call it far more promising if the people were pledged to live the lifestyle of, say, a plains-Indian tribe. Sedentary life is not terribly conducive to liberty, but given the realities of taxation, one cannot buy 100K acres and simply disappear on it. The "authorities" will be waiting for their yearly pound of flesh. So much for the notion that America is a free nation.

Like it or not, we are all slaves - a truth that cannot be escaped regardless of how we may try. We don't have monkeys on our backs, we have full-adult gray-backs riding us unto our utter depletion. We're in it so deep, most people have no hope of ever seeing it.

Every castle can be taken if you have enough man and weapons,but they could have at least made a try to do some research and make it have a point just a little,also it would be cheaper than building walls and gates :confused:

They could put some dragon teeth around the area they want to "protect".This would stop any vehicles much better than a wall.Also they would be extra cheep to make.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/Westwall01.jpg/220px-Westwall01.jpg

And behind the dragon teeth a man made earth hill around the city with a ditch in front and with tunnels within so to move.On the outside of the hill you could have fire posts and bunkers ( also cheep as hell to build ).

Something like this

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/FortUxegney.jpg/300px-FortUxegney.jpg

Still anyway I see no point in building fortifications in Idaho,especially if it is as they say underpopulated.Building this city on the coast with a port would be much better for trade and thus increasing the chances of the city to prosper.

The fortification could not be anything more than a bluff to the government not to react,because if at any time it decides to take the bluff it is over.

.

[cheapseats]

Cities, cites. That's the word, not fortress.


Y'know how GOD is not the believer-approved term for all Believers?

A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet VS. frame the argument, frame the argument.

Walled community, gated community...look no further than state & federal buildings to see FORTRESSES.



City, starves in 2 or 3 weeks.

I have several times read that, without deliveries, 72 HOURS is about how long it would take for PANDEMONIUM to grip a garden-variety city.




That isn't a fortress. That is merely another city, with people residing in it. Those are everywhere.

I put on a lotta lotta miles driving around rather than flying OVER my country. If there were concentrations of like-minded people "everywhere", I'da run into more of 'em.




They ever wanted to declare any sort of autonomy, which the whole reason they claim they want to do the project, the feds would merely have to roadblock it in for around 10 days with about 150 leo, and they'd all come out for a free cup of ramen noodles and bottle of drinking water.

Versus the FULL FAITH & FORCE of the United States...with other Americans spectating...ONE Intentional Community stands the same chance as ARMY OF ONE. The standoff will last longer and more people (including Official) will die, but Officials would certainly prevail against ONE unit.

Peons throw shit at the wall SEQUENTIALLY, and Powers swat it down one by one. Powers throw shit at the wall SIMULTANEOUSLY, and some always sticks.

There are ways to MINIMIZE TROUBLE, and there are ways to COURT TROUBLE.

The MACHO species of the genus RUGGED INDIVIDUALIST ain't exactly known for wearing their hearts on their sleeves. Why would they broadcast plans/methods/assets/supplies beyond whatever "between the lines" lingo is needed to attract "their" peeps?



They want to do a housing project, they can set up apartments and have twice that concentration of people.

The point is not that their idea/vision/way could be done differently/better/right, but that they have the RIGHT to build THEIR living situation as they see fit. [Yada yada about not violating the rights of others, etc, etc.]



That isn't a fortress for declaring independent self-rule.

Indeed not, now that I see the snazzy layout. That said, FORTRESSES are everywhere. They just don't look like latter day fortresses. They protect the Government, the Corporations and the Wealthy.

Declaring "independent self-rule" falls under COURTING TROUBLE until it falls under SAFETY IN NUMBERS.

[Rothbardian Girl]

I am curious to find out what "American exceptionalism" is a euphemism for (if anything). I also had a little chuckle at this:

Some of the benefits of the Citadel community include a safe, well-prepared, patriotic community where children will be educated in school, not indoctrinated.
I tend to think that perhaps the only way to learn that completely avoids "indoctrination" is unschooling, and even that is only if it is done properly. Is it not indoctrination when our side does it?

The important thing, of course, is "live and let live", but it's personally not for me. I prefer a little diversity in my environment.

[osan]

These guys a building a theme park

http://iiicitadel.com/images/aerialConcept_lg.jpg


A few observations. Firstly, this cannot be to scale because I see no place that 7K families would live... unless they are under ground.

Next, the "Arms Factory" should be smack in the middle of the facility, not in some remote corner. Very ill-considered design. I wonder whether they would hire me to design this thing for them... they should because it is painfully clear that they have no idea what they are doing.

Where is the medical facility? HELLO? Where is the water supply? Not talking about the tanks shown, but the actual SOURCE. Wells? Bad gamble if they are betting the farm on those alone. Whence their foods? Whence the fuel for the power station? Let them build a LFTR, problem solved forever.

I know it is only an "artist's concept", but it is a really poor effort, no offense. If one is serious about this (BTW, whence the funding?), he should proceed as if that were the case and not as a sixth-grader scribbling out his D&D fantasies. I would forget about the walls altogether and situate the community in a place with a single point of ingress/egress that is easily defended as per Thermopylae. I would build an air strip rather than walls. Castles went by the wayside for a reason. I would build a network of tunnels accessible by every structure on the surface. The cost of the walls would cover that and more.

The more you put IN the ground, the better off you would be. The arms factory would be 5 stories below the surface. The exception would be the facility for gun powder, which should be isolated and on the surface in case of explosion, though properly vented underground storage would be good.

There appears to be a lot they are not taking into consideration. They need to hire me as their strategic designer and planner because if they go off as depicted in this rendering, they will be in for some surprises.

[osan]

I get the impression that they're hoping to be completely self sufficient.

I hope for their sake you are mistaken, because that which would be required would NEVER be permitted by the ruling mob. Energy production alone would be basis for sending in the drones.

[Keith and stuff]

A few observations. Firstly, this cannot be to scale because I see no place that 7K families would live... unless they are under ground.

Next, the "Arms Factory" should be smack in the middle of the facility, not in some remote corner. Very ill-considered design. I wonder whether they would hire me to design this thing for them... they should because it is painfully clear that they have no idea what they are doing.

Where is the medical facility? HELLO? Where is the water supply? Not talking about the tanks shown, but the actual SOURCE. Wells? Bad gamble if they are betting the farm on those alone. Whence their foods? Whence the fuel for the power station? Let them build a LFTR, problem solved forever.

I think you are missing the point. It is supposed to be a tourist destination for conservative white people. The arms factory and museum provide jobs for the people living in the gated neighborhood. It isn't a city. It isn't a town. It is just 1 neighborhood with a gate around it that is really expensive to live in.

Of course, it is all a theory. They leader hasn't even selected a state yet, let alone land. Of course, there is no funding at this time but if you have $50,000,000 to spare, this project could selected a state and at least buy the land.

[cheapseats]

I hope for their sake you are mistaken, because that which would be required would NEVER be permitted by the ruling mob. Energy production alone would be basis for sending in the drones.


But Trade...even if it is strictly Compound People BUYING from Establishment...is EXACTLY the pragmatic basis for not terrorizing, brutalizing, incarcerating &/or killing the people you can't stand.

In my view, it's a good thing to produce/export something that [Establishment/Outside/Pick-a-Word people/consumers WANT. I'm all for trade beyond the literal OR FIGURATIVE castle walls, but there ARE people who do not want "their" people to be contaminated by [pick-a-word] stuff.

[cheapseats]

THEME PARK and FISCAL CLIFF go together like GUN CONTROL and PERPETUAL WAR.

[Tod]

The wall is largely symbolic, imo, meant to force the government to mount a large enough scale attack to garner widespread media coverage.

I find the term "American Exceptionalism" pretty dumb, in no small part because of how it has been used and that it has been used by talking heads that aren't very admirable themselves.

That graphic looks pretty ill-conceived too, mostly for the reasons others have noted already.

[AGRP]

Sounds like a psyop. Kind of like Becks vision.

[silverhandorder]

Looks crazy to be honest.

[FrancisMarion]

/// wrong picture

this looks betterhttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Pwty0NHupiE/UFQ10KiKqXI/AAAAAAAADSA/7uRkh117_OI/s1600/4169-Mont_St-Michel_France_Europe_08.01.2012_1.jpg

[SpreadOfLiberty]

I'd visit and support their effort however I do not want to be such an obvious target.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

I find the term "American Exceptionalism" pretty dumb, in no small part because of how it has been used and that it has been used by talking heads that aren't very admirable themselves.


Tells me they'll be advertising on Limbaugh.

America is so "exceptional," we need to wall ourselves off from it. Sounds like bullshit to me.

[cheapseats]

I'd visit and support their effort however I do not want to be such an obvious target.


Yoo hoo, over HERE!

I think not.

[torchbearer]

Sounds pretty good to me. I don't think it will work out too well though. Locking yourself in a "citadel" makes trade pretty difficult.

don't see anything preventing export. though i doubt the denizens of citidel will take funny money for their goods.
so the lack of gold/silver coins in the hands of people elsewhere would be the biggest barrier to trade.
though some may still take FRNs...

[Confederate]

Should have built this in NH...would be nice to have 7000 liberty-leanings families augment the existing 1000+ FSPers.

[tod evans]

I like that the idea of segregating a community from some of the BS the rest of the country is experiencing.

That Drudge ran the article gives the idea of actual freedom of some type to a larger audience, "in-house" manufacturing and education are ideas I like seeing bounced around...

The proposal as presented is easily shot full of holes but the seeds such a proposal plants very well may survive...

[gwax23]

Should have built this in NH...would be nice to have 7000 liberty-leanings families augment the existing 1000+ FSPers.

This. Furthermore if they think they can find 7k families not individuals but 7k liberty minded families why can the Free State Project a much more reputable and well known (Not crazy) project only able to target 10k libertarians?

[AGRP]

I like that the idea of segregating a community from some of the BS the rest of the country is experiencing.

That Drudge ran the article gives the idea of actual freedom of some type to a larger audience, "in-house" manufacturing and education are ideas I like seeing bounced around...

The proposal as presented is easily shot full of holes but the seeds such a proposal plants very well may survive...

Has drudge ever published a top page article detailing the FSP? Nope. Tells you a lot.

[Keith and stuff]

Tells me they'll be advertising on Limbaugh.

America is so "exceptional," we need to wall ourselves off from it. Sounds like bullshit to me.

Since it is just an idea and the group has no money, I doubt there will be an advertising without someone handing them $50,000,000. BTW, if you are handing out such money, please let me know as I have a side project.

Since Glenn Beck is trying to complete with them, he likely wouldn't even take your money to advertise on his new Global Libertarian Network :(

[acptulsa]

Having farmers farm outside the citadel and bringing them inside when attacked is a strategy almost as old as the Moon. Still works, too.

That said, this thing reminds me of dreadnought battleships. They had good belt armor which protected them from other ships well. But they had no deck armor to protect them from airplanes. No citadel is modern without a roof. It is, in fact, over a hundred years out of date.

You cannot make defenses completely impenetrable. All you can do is make it so expensive to overrun your position that they don't consider you worth the cost. Does this meet that standard? Depends. Most garden variety rioters wouldn't consider this place worth the trip out in the boonies. Any armed force with a real air arm will laugh at it. I don't think these people are seriously trying to keep the military out. If they were, they'd have devised a plan that would actually do so.

Seems to me that cheapseats had the best use for this. Use the plan to point out to those in gated communities that they have quite a lot in common with these people. And they do.

[pcosmar]

The wall are pointless..
Needs Force Field Generators and a full dome.

Utopian Fantasy is Fantasy

[Keith and stuff]

Has drudge ever published a top page article detailing the FSP? Nope. Tells you a lot.

Sure he has. I think it has happened more than once. I think it happened when we voted on a state and then again in 2005 when there was a bunch of news in NH relating to the eminent domain case in New London, CT. It might have happened other times but I don't follow Drudge unless someone points me to it.

[opal]

one word keeps coming to my mind

re-gerrymandering

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Since Glenn Beck is trying to complete with them, he likely wouldn't even take your money to advertise on his new Global Libertarian Network :(


Beck is a comedy genius.

[mello]

I was thinking about this exact thing months ago. Weird.

[CaptainAmerica]

Why on earth would anyone with a brain willfully join a nazi ghetto that is a "concentration camp" wrapped up with the name "Liberty community". No thanks. Might as well just walk right into a prison camp and volunteer into it.

[Confederate]

Why on earth would anyone with a brain willfully join a nazi ghetto that is a "concentration camp" wrapped up with the name "Liberty community". No thanks. Might as well just walk right into a prison camp and volunteer into it.

What the hell are you talking about?

[silverhandorder]

What the hell are you talking about?

They select who is part of their citadel...

[acptulsa]

What the hell are you talking about?

He's making the same point that Ron Paul was making about the border fence--walls have two sides, not just one. What keeps 'them' out keeps you in. And sometimes it's better at keeping you in than at keeping 'them' out.

If you don't believe me, just ask a Branch Davidian. If you can find one.

Seems to me the most important part of a citadel is the secret escape route.

[Confederate]

They select who is part of their citadel...

How is that at all comparable to a nazi ghetto or a concentration camp? Did Jews volunteer?

[cheapseats]

Why on earth would anyone with a brain willfully join a nazi ghetto that is a "concentration camp" wrapped up with the name "Liberty community". No thanks.

One man's trash is another man's treasure. One man's ghetto is another man's sanctuary. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks.

I presume all Liberty folk conceptually defend the right of CLIQUES OF INDIVIDUALS to design/develop Intentional Communities that are as reflective of their druthers/choices as "Righteous Liberty" permits. THIS Intentional Community isn't your cuppa tea, but there must be SOME defined Intentional Community that appeals to EVERYONE for whom the Status Quo is unacceptable.

PASS IT ON is a big deal on the Recovery Circuit...what works, what doesn't work. Trial & error. Experiment & disseminate.

Authoritarianism is CLEARLY making more headway than Liberty. Bearing THAT and "safety in numbers" in mind, Intentional Communities surely fall under THE MORE, THE MERRIER rather than WHICH IS BEST.

[Rothbardian Girl]

How is that at all comparable to a nazi ghetto or a concentration camp? Did Jews volunteer?

I'm sure at least some percentage didn't have much of an idea of what was in store for them; they were probably told it was being done for their protection. I'm not sure if I agree that there is a grand conspiracy behind this compound, but can all of this project's volunteers be reasonably assured that they are signing up for something they'll want to be a part of? I'm not sure of that.

[silverhandorder]

How is that at all comparable to a nazi ghetto or a concentration camp? Did Jews volunteer?


No and I doubt anyone will volunteer to join them. This place just screams cult to me. When you trying to attract 50 million worth of investment telling people they can't be part of your elite vision and painting a giant target on your self is highly discouraging.

[CaptainAmerica]

I'm sure at least some percentage didn't have much of an idea of what was in store for them; they were probably told it was being done for their protection. I'm not sure if I agree that there is a grand conspiracy behind this compound, but can all of this project's volunteers be reasonably assured that they are signing up for something they'll want to be a part of? I'm not sure of that. I agree that there is no grand conspiracy to be proven but I just find it full of irony for a people that do not want to be poked and prodded to suddenly put themselves in a zoo called a "community".

[CaptainAmerica]

What the hell are you talking about? something that went above your head obviously

[cheapseats]

don't see anything preventing export. though i doubt the denizens of citidel will take funny money for their goods.

Depends what they need to BUY, and from whom.



so the lack of gold/silver coins in the hands of people elsewhere would be the biggest barrier to trade.

BARRIERS R US.

Intentional Communities are not gonna be one-size/shape-fits-all. If one size/shape fit all, our country would not be torn asunder.

Intentional Communities that seek to MINIMIZE TROUBLE and also produce [whatever] for revenue may spy acceptable Incrementalism in expressing a pretty-please preference for payment in precious metals whensoever possible and, of course, declining to accept credit/debit/EBT cards. Question is, what are they SELLING/PROVIDING that people like/want enuf...or what are they DOING that is interesting, entertaining or intimidating enuf...that "normal" Naysayers & Nitpickers cut 'em some slack?

As with nations, big difference between Non-Interventionist and Isolationist. Someone said a very funny thing lately about a CANOE OF MARINES being able to "take" a NAP utopia...so true, so true. We will have Government, as far as the eye can see. If the U.S. Government cannot play nicely with different Intentional Communities of like-minded individuals, well then, Diversity ain't all it's cracked up to be.



though some may still take FRNs...

Any that buy Energy, I should think.

[cbrons]

Not to mention a terrible waste of money...

SHTF situation you'd be thankful for the walls. Makes things easier to secure 24/7 and ensures vehicles can't come through quite as easily. Post economic collapse, many small towns will be closed off and barricaded at the main inlets leading into town.


/// wrong picture

this looks betterhttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Pwty0NHupiE/UFQ10KiKqXI/AAAAAAAADSA/7uRkh117_OI/s1600/4169-Mont_St-Michel_France_Europe_08.01.2012_1.jpg


What is that?

[cbrons]

read this post

All you guys are overly focused on "this may be a cult" or "this was stupid" or "the artist renderings of the layout are all wrong/stupid/insane" when in reality all I want to focus on is if and when the Fedcoats will burn the thing down and what (if any) reaction will such a thing illicit?

Also how will they do it? Will they plant a Fedcoat on the inside as a Jean Provocateur? Or will they get their stooges in the media to hype something up and then raid it under that cover, killing all of the men, women, and children and use a Stooge Committee run by Diane Fine-Swine to make it seem legit?

[Pauls' Revere]

SHTF situation you'd be thankful for the walls. Makes things easier to secure 24/7 and ensures vehicles can't come through quite as easily. Post economic collapse, many small towns will be closed off and barricaded at the main inlets leading into town.




What is that?

Mount St. Michel's, France.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mont_Saint-Michel

[dinosaur]

read this post

All you guys are overly focused on "this may be a cult" or "this was stupid" or "the artist renderings of the layout are all wrong/stupid/insane" when in reality all I want to focus on is if and when the Fedcoats will burn the thing down and what (if any) reaction will such a thing illicit?

Also how will they do it? Will they plant a Fedcoat on the inside as a Jean Provocateur? Or will they get their stooges in the media to hype something up and then raid it under that cover, killing all of the men, women, and children and use a Stooge Committee run by Diane Fine-Swine to make it seem legit?

It would be an asset that would be confiscated in case of national emergency, and the factory and it's workers will be put to use manufacturing ammo and firearms in order to make the world safe for democracy.

[jmdrake]

Good information! +rep.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV9CCxdkOng

You've probably seen that before, but my point is that I think it could be done on the land they're proposing. I'm sure when they get into more of the specifics, the land amount will probably go toward the higher end and the family number will probably go toward the lower end.

[osan]

read this post

All you guys are overly focused on "this may be a cult" or "this was stupid" or "the artist renderings of the layout are all wrong/stupid/insane" when in reality all I want to focus on is if and when the Fedcoats will burn the thing down and what (if any) reaction will such a thing illicit?

If you were 10 or older in April 1993 you should already know.


Also how will they do it? Will they plant a Fedcoat on the inside as a Jean Provocateur? Or will they get their stooges in the media to hype something up and then raid it under that cover, killing all of the men, women, and children and use a Stooge Committee run by Diane Fine-Swine to make it seem legit?

You're keeping yourself up at night with this? It is irrelevant how. All that one need know is that it would
be done and that the people of this nation would tolerate it. Case closed.

Next.

[cheapseats]

It is irrelevant how. All that one need know is that it would
be done and that the people of this nation would tolerate it. Case closed.


1 Jan ImplausibleEndeavors ‏@MindOfMo
Y'know ad wherein factory worker sez of broom-bogarting witch "I'LL STAND UP TO HER NEXT TIME" & 2nd worker sez "NO YOU WON'T"? S'like that.

[Romulus]

You don't own property, you lease it from the 'owners'.

What was that project that Zietgeist was pushing? Free jetski's?

[TomtheTinker]

The name "III Citadel" came into the limelight last weekend, when The Drudge Report posted a prominent link to a CNS article by Gregory Gwyn-Williams, Jr.. In a nutshell, a man identifying himself as "Sam III" who is somehow loosely associated with III Arms (a legitimate company, in West Virginia) started a patriot community building project, somewhere east of St. Maries, Idaho. When I first heard about it in November, I made just one short and noncommittal "this sounds interesting" mention in my blog. (A post which I just removed.) Two days ago I was quite troubled to learn that the main promoter of Citadel III is a convicted felon. (That, according to the SipseyStreetIrregulars blog.) In the III Citadel web page and blog, Mr. Hyman /Sam Kerodin / Christian Kerodin / Sam Kerillion / Sam Hellesponte / Sam III / Nom Du Jour seems to imply that I've somehow endorsed his venture or that what they are doing fits in with my American Redoubt concept. I haven't endorsed it, and he is not my buddy. To the best of my knowledge I've never met, spoken or corresponded with the man. For some background, see: "Citadel." Convicted extortionist's latest con gets huge play on Drudge. and, Three-letter frog in Kerodin's pocket? Anecdotes of the Kerodin career. A convicted extortionist. Turns out his real name is Christian Hyman. Again, I have nothing to do with Mr. Hyman. My only nexus to him is that he chose a piece of land that is in one of the states that I recommend for relocation. He has apparently tried to capitalize on my name. According to the SipseyStreetIrregulars blog, Mr. Hyman "persuades folks to invest" in the project. My advice: Beware of III Citadel! In closing, I should point out that III Arms is a separate entity and to the best of my knowledge they are a legitimate and reputable company. - J.W.R.

..

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Turns out his real name is Christian Hyman.

rofl. Is he broke? Married first?

[acptulsa]

Anyone else remember Granny Warrior's proposed nirvana in one of the driest regions of West Texas?

[Keith and stuff]

Anyone else remember Granny Warrior's proposed nirvana in one of the driest regions of West Texas?
I remember when the Free Town Project was looking at rural West Texas before it decided on Grafton, New Hampshire. I'm not sure if these are related. Please tell me more about this failed desert project.

[cheapseats]

Speaking of divisions within the Liberty Moovement, there are those who are hunkering down for the next election and the next and the next election, and there are those who have recognized/accepted the futility of electoral politics unless/untill something ELSE gives...who are hunkering down to be IMPACTED AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE by Officialdom.

Life is short, and "time flies" really fast.

Speaking of COMPROMISE, I will grant that maybe electoral politics fall under IT'S DIRTY WORK BUT SOMEONE'S GOTTA DO IT. It can only persuasively be argued as a Lesser Evil from the AVOIDANCE OF BLOODSHED perspective, however.

Whether this maybe-creepy-and-kinda-posh rendition is psy-op or mercenary or impractical doesn't change that Intentional Communities DO present the possibility for superior quality of life for whatever REMAINS of, let's face it, BRIEF lives.

[libertariantexas]

Sounds like these people will be ready for the Zombie Apocalypse.

[adisongrace]

I like the idea of a citadel. I also do not see a conflict with those who are
"chosen" to live there. If you don't like the rules...don't live there.

[pcosmar]

I like the idea of a citadel. I also do not see a conflict with those who are
"chosen" to live there. If you don't like the rules...don't live there.

I don't and I won't.
I like the Idea of an armed population and community militia.
I think our Founders were on to something there.

[XTreat]

Read the agreement you must sign to become a member, a bit too draconian for me.

[adisongrace]

I don't and I won't.
I like the Idea of an armed population and community militia.
I think our Founders were on to something there.

Agreed.

I think the idea is sound. There are flaws with the citadel, and those should be purged.
I like the sound of a compound that focuses on liberty.

[reardenstone]

I don't like the idea of "one person" or business controlling the investment and planning. A far better solution would be a group committee act that would hold each member responsible for decisions and financial tracking. The story about the mastermind behind Ciii being a convicted extortionists makes me worry that this could be another scheme to seperate suckers from their money -- or it could be an elaborate false flag setup by agents who use an ex-con to sell a controlled opposition compound.

Any besides, cooperatism is a libertarian friendly form of collectivism that has multiple levels of fail-safe control. I can't speak for the FSP but it seems that it runs socially and not from a top down position. Perhaps the FSP should bring every FS'er together, agree on a contribution amount, collect some money and buy land and then plan for an intentional community with it's own safe-zone border.