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View Full Version : MD - Panel suggests gun seizures for 'substantiated' threats




tangent4ronpaul
01-02-2013, 09:59 PM
(not a good precedent, but it's not looking that bad. The AWB is more worry some)

Task force was created by General Assembly to look at gun access by mentally ill
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-guns-and-mental-illness-20130102,0,4708217.story

A state task force studying gun access laws for people with mental illnesses has proposed authorizing police to seize firearms from individuals deemed a credible threat to themselves or others.

Such seizures, the panel said Wednesday, would take place after law enforcement "substantiated" reports from mental health providers, social workers and other professionals.

The proposal is among nine recommendations by a task force convened months before December's mass shooting at a Connecticut elementary school that sparked a nationwide debate on gun control and access to mental health services.

The shooting renewed focus on those issues in Maryland, though it was unclear whether the gun-seizure proposal or other recommendations would get attention from state lawmakers already poised to consider an assault weapons ban and limits on the size of magazine clips.(sic) <== A liberal wrote this!!!!

Sen. Brian Frosh, who chairs the state Senate committee that deals with gun legislation, noted that while the concept of keeping guns out of the hands of dangerous people may have popular appeal, the details of such a proposal raise thorny legal questions.

"All by itself, it makes total sense, right? We don't want mentally ill people running around with guns," said Frosh, chairman of the Judicial Proceedings Committee. But, he added, "I'm not sure that there's a state in the country that has a process equal to the task."

The 17-member task force, created by the General Assembly, was charged with examining Maryland's laws that prohibit gun purchases by some people who have been hospitalized for mental illnesses. In particular, the panel was asked to look at whether the laws effectively protect the public, safeguard civil rights, and give law enforcement appropriate access to mental health records. And it was asked to recommend whether the access laws should be stricter.

The panel did not answer those questions. Patrick Dooley, task force co-chair and chief of staff at the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, said members found insufficient data to suggest that mentally ill people should for that reason alone be denied access to firearms.

"There wasn't that overwhelmingly strong connection," Dooley said. "We chose instead to focus on people who are making credible threats." The panel included law enforcement officials, gun-rights advocates, mental health experts, attorneys and policy experts.

The gun-seizure proposal would depart from existing practices in Maryland that appear to set a higher bar for confiscating firearms, according to the report. The report offered no detail on what would constitute a credible threat, though the task force suggested that guns be confiscated for up to two weeks until a judge could determine whether a seizure was appropriate.

Gun-rights advocates bristled at the suggestion that a police investigation was enough to justify confiscating weapons from people who may not have a history of violence or commitment to a mental health facility.

"The only people you affect by going overboard on legislation to restrict Second Amendment rights are the law-abiding citizens," said Sen. Nancy Jacobs, a Harford County Republican on Frosh's committee. "You're never going to know if a criminal has a gun until you catch him with it."

In recent years, other gun-surrender measures faced opposition. A proposal to require judges to order guns to be confiscated in some domestic-violence cases failed in 2008. It passed in 2009 after protections for gun owners were added to the legislation.

Maryland police can already confiscate guns in certain situations that involve drug crimes or domestic violence, Maryland State Police spokesman Greg Shipley said. A 2008 federal court ruling based on a Gaithersburg case gave legal protection to police who seize weapons when a threat seems immediate, Shipley said.

Other suggestions by the task force include:

•Mandatory reporting of threats by mental health professionals and others.

•More mental health training for police officers.

•More education on firearm laws for mental health providers.

•Establishing mental health crisis teams similar to one Montgomery County.

•Using revenue from gun permits and licenses to pay for training.

•Crafting a way for people who lose access to guns to get them back.

•Additional studies to look at the prevalence of mental illness among criminals as well as links among substance abuse, mental health and violence.

========

So is anyone else's state looking at a STATE AW ban?

-t

tangent4ronpaul
01-02-2013, 10:20 PM
Push to ban more assault weapons expected in Annapolis
Some lawmakers want to tighten gun control in wake of Newtown
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-guns-20121217,0,6390450.story

Legislation to ban assault weapons like the Bushmaster semi-automatic rifle used in the Newtown school massacre will be revived in Annapolis when the General Assembly convenes next month, according to leading lawmakers pushing to make the change.

The ban is among several gun control proposals that have languished in the Assembly but will take on greater priority as Marylanders grapple with the aftermath of the nation's second-deadliest school shooting, gun control advocates said.

"This is an absolute tipping point," said Sen. Jamie Raskin, a Montgomery County Democrat who plans to introduce a broad state-level assault weapons ban. "If we don't act now, it is hard to see when we ever would act on this."

Other proposals under discussion include giving state police greater access to mental health records as they determine who can purchase firearms and crafting a list of criteria that gun owners must meet before they can carry a concealed weapon — a recognition by many lawmakers that a federal court could strike down Maryland's restrictive right-to-carry law.

Currently, a gun owner must show a "good and substantial reason" for carrying a concealed firearm to get a permit to do so in Maryland. About 12,700 of the permits have been issued.

The law is being challenged, and similar ones have been struck down in other parts of the country.

A number of Maryland elected officials called for enhanced gun control Monday, including U.S. Sen. Barbara Mikulski, a Democrat, who called for a federal prohibition on military-style weapons. Democratic Baltimore County Executive Kevin Kamenetz also urged a halt to the sale of assault weapons, among other changes.

Some state lawmakers also want to give the state police more authority to regulate gun stores.

Gov. Martin O'Malley said Monday he would look at ways to improve gun control and gun safety, but he did not endorse any specific proposals. A spokeswoman for House Speaker Michael E. Busch said gun control would be "looked at" during the coming legislative session, while aides to Senate President Thomas V. Mike Miller did not respond to a request for comment. All three men are Democrats.

Other gun control ideas are likely to surface in coming days. Several lawmakers contacted Monday said they spent the weekend brainstorming with colleagues or discussing with constituents ways to prevent mass shootings.

Sen. Bill Ferguson, a Baltimore Democrat, said he briefly considered hosting a rally to show support for Newtown victims but instead plans to host a town hall meeting on gun control.

Any proposals are sure to encounter resistance in Maryland, which has not passed any major gun control legislation in more than a decade. "It will be a brouhaha," predicted Del. Kathleen Dumais, a Montgomery County Democrat who is vice chair of the House Judiciary Committee. "Everyone will come in screaming. But I do think something needs to be done."

Maryland has some of the most restrictive gun control laws in the country, supporters acknowledged. Gun buyers must be 21 or over and wait seven days before making a purchase while the state police perform a criminal background check. Fourteen factors prohibit gun ownership — including a history of violence or drug or alcohol abuse. The state already bans more than a dozen semi-automatic "assault pistols," including the Uzi. Magazine rounds on semi-automatic weapons are limited to 20 bullets. A rifle used in Friday's shootings carried 30, authorities have said.

Marylanders are allowed to own or purchase 45 different types of semi-automatic weapons — guns where another bullet is automatically loaded into a chamber after being fired. The list incudes the Bushmaster rifle used in the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, along with the AK-47 and the Kalashnikov semi-automatic rifle.

"There is no reason anyone needs to have a Bushmaster semi-automatic rifle," said Raskin, who plans to introduce the ban when the annual 90-day legislative session opens Jan. 9. "That is just a killing machine. We can get rid of military-style assault weapons in civil society without infringing on anyone's Second Amendment rights."

Similar legislation was introduced as recently as 2010 but died in the state Senate Judicial Proceedings Committee. This time, the proposal faces better odds, said Judicial Proceedings Committee Chairman Brian Frosh, a Montgomery County Democrat. He pointed out that there have been a number of mass shootings since then, and that the composition of the committee has changed. Frosh plans a news conference this week unveiling a package of gun control legislation including the assault weapons ban.

Leading the opposition in the coming session will be Del. Michael D. Smigiel, an Eastern Shore Republican whose Facebook page includes a photograph of him holding an assault rifle.

"People will try to politicize this and pass anti-Second Amendment legislation that will further create problems for the innocent and the law abiding," Smigiel said Monday, saying the Connecticut rampage should instead lead lawmakers to provide more access to mental health care.

State police access to mental health records is expected to be an issue in Annapolis. Though the department is charged with doing background checks, it does not have access to many mental health records, making it difficult to assess the mental illness history of an applicant, said Greg Shipley, a state police spokesman.

Under current law, the Maryland State Police, which regulates purchases of certain guns — mostly handguns and assault weapons — checks with the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene to determine whether a person applying to buy a regulated gun has ever been in a state hospital for a month. That can make someone ineligible to buy certain weapons, although former patients also can be cleared by a psychiatrist.

The General Assembly earlier this year established a task force to study the issue of giving the police more access to the records. It is expected to make recommendations soon.

"If we could address, or begin to address, the issue of access to weapons by individuals with mental health issues, I would consider that an accomplishment," said Del. Luiz Simmons, a Montgomery County Democrat who proposed the task force.

-t

Anti Federalist
01-03-2013, 12:45 AM
Pretty much all of that was in place in CT.

The alleged shooter in CT was not the legal owner.

The weapons were stolen and the owner killed.

Not a single one of those items would have made any difference.


Push to ban more assault weapons expected in Annapolis
Some lawmakers want to tighten gun control in wake of Newtown
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-guns-20121217,0,6390450.story

Legislation to ban assault weapons like the Bushmaster semi-automatic rifle used in the Newtown school massacre will be revived in Annapolis when the General Assembly convenes next month, according to leading lawmakers pushing to make the change.

The ban is among several gun control proposals that have languished in the Assembly but will take on greater priority as Marylanders grapple with the aftermath of the nation's second-deadliest school shooting, gun control advocates said.

"This is an absolute tipping point," said Sen. Jamie Raskin, a Montgomery County Democrat who plans to introduce a broad state-level assault weapons ban. "If we don't act now, it is hard to see when we ever would act on this."

Other proposals under discussion include giving state police greater access to mental health records as they determine who can purchase firearms and crafting a list of criteria that gun owners must meet before they can carry a concealed weapon — a recognition by many lawmakers that a federal court could strike down Maryland's restrictive right-to-carry law.

Currently, a gun owner must show a "good and substantial reason" for carrying a concealed firearm to get a permit to do so in Maryland. About 12,700 of the permits have been issued.

The law is being challenged, and similar ones have been struck down in other parts of the country.

A number of Maryland elected officials called for enhanced gun control Monday, including U.S. Sen. Barbara Mikulski, a Democrat, who called for a federal prohibition on military-style weapons. Democratic Baltimore County Executive Kevin Kamenetz also urged a halt to the sale of assault weapons, among other changes.

Some state lawmakers also want to give the state police more authority to regulate gun stores.

Gov. Martin O'Malley said Monday he would look at ways to improve gun control and gun safety, but he did not endorse any specific proposals. A spokeswoman for House Speaker Michael E. Busch said gun control would be "looked at" during the coming legislative session, while aides to Senate President Thomas V. Mike Miller did not respond to a request for comment. All three men are Democrats.

Other gun control ideas are likely to surface in coming days. Several lawmakers contacted Monday said they spent the weekend brainstorming with colleagues or discussing with constituents ways to prevent mass shootings.

Sen. Bill Ferguson, a Baltimore Democrat, said he briefly considered hosting a rally to show support for Newtown victims but instead plans to host a town hall meeting on gun control.

Any proposals are sure to encounter resistance in Maryland, which has not passed any major gun control legislation in more than a decade. "It will be a brouhaha," predicted Del. Kathleen Dumais, a Montgomery County Democrat who is vice chair of the House Judiciary Committee. "Everyone will come in screaming. But I do think something needs to be done."

Maryland has some of the most restrictive gun control laws in the country, supporters acknowledged. Gun buyers must be 21 or over and wait seven days before making a purchase while the state police perform a criminal background check. Fourteen factors prohibit gun ownership — including a history of violence or drug or alcohol abuse. The state already bans more than a dozen semi-automatic "assault pistols," including the Uzi. Magazine rounds on semi-automatic weapons are limited to 20 bullets. A rifle used in Friday's shootings carried 30, authorities have said.

Marylanders are allowed to own or purchase 45 different types of semi-automatic weapons — guns where another bullet is automatically loaded into a chamber after being fired. The list incudes the Bushmaster rifle used in the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, along with the AK-47 and the Kalashnikov semi-automatic rifle.

"There is no reason anyone needs to have a Bushmaster semi-automatic rifle," said Raskin, who plans to introduce the ban when the annual 90-day legislative session opens Jan. 9. "That is just a killing machine. We can get rid of military-style assault weapons in civil society without infringing on anyone's Second Amendment rights."

Similar legislation was introduced as recently as 2010 but died in the state Senate Judicial Proceedings Committee. This time, the proposal faces better odds, said Judicial Proceedings Committee Chairman Brian Frosh, a Montgomery County Democrat. He pointed out that there have been a number of mass shootings since then, and that the composition of the committee has changed. Frosh plans a news conference this week unveiling a package of gun control legislation including the assault weapons ban.

Leading the opposition in the coming session will be Del. Michael D. Smigiel, an Eastern Shore Republican whose Facebook page includes a photograph of him holding an assault rifle.

"People will try to politicize this and pass anti-Second Amendment legislation that will further create problems for the innocent and the law abiding," Smigiel said Monday, saying the Connecticut rampage should instead lead lawmakers to provide more access to mental health care.

State police access to mental health records is expected to be an issue in Annapolis. Though the department is charged with doing background checks, it does not have access to many mental health records, making it difficult to assess the mental illness history of an applicant, said Greg Shipley, a state police spokesman.

Under current law, the Maryland State Police, which regulates purchases of certain guns — mostly handguns and assault weapons — checks with the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene to determine whether a person applying to buy a regulated gun has ever been in a state hospital for a month. That can make someone ineligible to buy certain weapons, although former patients also can be cleared by a psychiatrist.

The General Assembly earlier this year established a task force to study the issue of giving the police more access to the records. It is expected to make recommendations soon.

"If we could address, or begin to address, the issue of access to weapons by individuals with mental health issues, I would consider that an accomplishment," said Del. Luiz Simmons, a Montgomery County Democrat who proposed the task force.

-t

Pericles
01-03-2013, 01:06 AM
Here is an idea: How about a law making murder illegal.

Nobody should be committed as insane or mentally defective without a jury trial. Letting the legal system run rampant is killing the 4th Amendment, and soon to be the 2nd Amendment, the 9th and 10th long ago dead and buried.

Philhelm
01-03-2013, 02:12 AM
Nobody should be committed as insane or mentally defective without a jury trial.

Even this is suspect. It's one thing to determine a matter of fact, such as whether the accused committed a particular act, but to determine another person's mental defectiveness becomes problematic.

Occam's Banana
01-03-2013, 02:18 AM
Even this is suspect. It's one thing to determine a matter of fact, such as whether the accused committed a particular act, but to determine another person's mental defectiveness becomes problematic.

Indeed. Criminalization of behavior is one thing. Diseasification of behavior is quite another ...

MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2
01-03-2013, 02:35 AM
Here is an idea: How about a law making murder illegal.


That's what I keep saying. Since laws stop everything, let's just skip all the nonsense and make the things we don't like illegal... like murder itself.



More mental health training for police officers.


That is seriously needed, but I suspect they mean it in a different way than I do.