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cordscords
12-31-2012, 02:07 PM
http://wordsofliberty.net/?p=160


When I say that headline to most people they don’t react to it very well. They comprehend it as “you want to end education?” No. I merely want a better education system in place than the monstrosity we currently have. Our current system is unconstitutional, immoral, bad economics, and just flat out inefficient. Allow me to explain:

Unconstitutional- The 10th amendment of the constitution reads, “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” So let’s find the text in the constitution that authorizes the federal government to be involved in education. Is it in the bill of rights? Article 1, Section 8? It’s not there. Nowhere in the constitution will you find references to education, schools, teachers, students, homework, math class, etc. Yet we have a department of education, no child left behind, numerous federal subsidies, etc.

Immoral- How does the government get their funds to meddle in education? Through taxation, borrowing, and printing money. Fancy ways of saying THEFT. There is no underlying social contract that we all agree to. That’s hogwash! Using coercion as means to accomplish anything is the essence of immorality.

In addition, government involvement in education also shoves a one size fits all approach down our throats. Who’s to say that one style of schooling trumps another? “Standardized tests can’t measure initiative, creativity, imagination, conceptual thinking, curiosity, effort, irony, judgment, commitment, nuance, good will, ethical reflection, or a host of other valuable dispositions and attributes. What they can measure and count are isolated skills, specific facts and function, content knowledge, the least interesting and least significant aspects of learning.”- Bill Ayers

Plus public schools are an oligopoly. In the United States, 88% of students attend public schools, compared with 9% who attend parochial schools, 1% who attend private independent schools, and 2% who are home-schooled. The government having a stranglehold on our schools is a disservice to those who buck the public system.

Economically- The feds and the states have education programs that are deep in the red. These already are or are close to becoming unfunded liabilities. It’s unsustainable.

When the government gets in bed with education it also raises prices, making it a drag on the consumer. These are the consequences of subsidies. They end up leaving college students saddled in thousands of debt.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GTa_swC-OE

As strange as it this might sound, private schools actually cost less than public schools! If you calculate the total expenditures per pupil for public school systems in America’s five largest metropolitan areas and Washington, D.C. Washington spent the most—an average of $28,000 per public school student, which was more than the maximum tuition charged to attend such prestigious private schools as Lowell School ($25,120), Sheridan School ($24,700), and Georgetown Visitation School ($20,600). Imagine ending this oligopoly, and all of the competition it would create.

Efficiency- In the United States we have a 76% high school graduation rate, checking in at #21 in the world. That’s below Slovakia for Pete’s sake! The college dropout rate is roughly 50%. Our test scores are pathetic, and we spend far more than other developed countries combined.

http://mat.usc.edu/wp-content/uploads/us-schools-vs-international3.jpg

Finally private schools produce better results than public schools. In 2011 the NAEP took a look at the achievement levels in math, reading, writing, geography, civics, and science. They found that a greater percentage of students in private schools graded out higher at basic, proficient, and advanced levels in every single subject than public school students.

So when I say to people I want to abolish public education, I’m not saying I want to end education. I’m simply advocating for an educational system that is constitutional, that is moral, that makes economic sense, and works.

erowe1
12-31-2012, 03:12 PM
Separation of school and state is another way of putting it that might make people at least think about it for a second before their guttural reaction.

tttppp
12-31-2012, 03:14 PM
Yes. Eliminate public schools and privatize education.

UMULAS
12-31-2012, 03:24 PM
No you rothbardians; eliminate federal intervention of education.

Then allow local regions to administer the costs of the education they put in their schools.

The problem isn't public schools, the US had the highest forms of education around the world and todays nations aren't privatizing their schools, the problem is the administration.

erowe1
12-31-2012, 03:27 PM
No you rothbardians; eliminate federal intervention of education.

Then allow local regions to administer the costs of the education they put in their schools.

The problem isn't public schools, the US had the highest forms of education around the world and todays nations aren't privatizing their schools, the problem is the administration.

It's not just Rothbardians. Anyone who supports any semblance of a free market would support getting all levels of government out of education. Do you support public education? If so, why?

Acala
12-31-2012, 03:54 PM
If I were amending the Constitution, after the explicit right to secession, the single most important change would be to prohibit government at every level from any involvement in education in any way.

tttppp
12-31-2012, 06:07 PM
No you rothbardians; eliminate federal intervention of education.

Then allow local regions to administer the costs of the education they put in their schools.

The problem isn't public schools, the US had the highest forms of education around the world and todays nations aren't privatizing their schools, the problem is the administration.

Wrong. Even without the federal government, my town is raping us with public education...and its not even needed.

mad cow
12-31-2012, 06:53 PM
Abolishing Public Education=Excellent Idea.
Quoting Bill Ayers in support of that position=Joke.

Call me when Bill Ayers wants mandatory Government regulations and/or involuntary Public funding out of Education.

bolil
12-31-2012, 11:24 PM
No you rothbardians; eliminate federal intervention of education.

Then allow local regions to administer the costs of the education they put in their schools.

The problem isn't public schools, the US had the highest forms of education around the world and todays nations aren't privatizing their schools, the problem is the administration.

The problem is that schools are answerable to administration. Free up education, free the teachers to instruct as they see fit.

I<3Liberty
02-13-2013, 10:20 PM
I think there's a multitude of problems stemming from government control of schools. I went to both public and private online school and will say that private online school was much more productive than public school.

One of the biggest issues is the required material the teachers must teach and the required classes. The stuff they are teaching in some of these classes will never be of use to the majority of us (see the "Some Study that I used to Know" Goyte parody for a humorous example of this.) We also have to take pointless classes like health. One of our assignments was to decorate paper gingerbread cutouts (for a lesson on body image) and the rest was basically common sense "don't smoke, don't do drugs, etc." Well, it's like preaching to the choir. The students that really need to hear this aren't getting it in an effective way. Schools would be better off putting that money into helping kids with drug issues or whatever problem, professional help.

Students already use competition within the school system when they select teachers. There's dozen of teacher and professor rating websites that you can go to and find ratings and comments for each teacher. Some teachers will have 5 full classes while others can't even fill 2. This is generally a good thing because it gives students the power to get the best education possible without the added stress of a poor teacher. I think applying this idea to school choice will better promote the idea and benefits of school choice and competition.

I'm also in favor of removing tenure. I believe teachers should have to reapply every so many years just like medical doctors. So many work their butts off and do not get tenure (despite being excellent teachers), and others are just terrible and protected by tenure.

Isaac Bickerstaff
02-14-2013, 06:20 AM
And think of all the school shootings that could be avoided.

XTreat
02-14-2013, 10:35 AM
If the federal government is the only problem then implement a voucher system and see who goes out of business first; the public or private schools.

Seraphim
02-14-2013, 11:17 AM
Yea, vouchers are astronomically better than money attached to the school.


If the federal government is the only problem then implement a voucher system and see who goes out of business first; the public or private schools.

erowe1
02-14-2013, 11:19 AM
Yea, vouchers are astronomically better than money attached to the school.

I have a bad feeling that vouchers will end up paving the way to strict regulation of private schools and banning home-schooling.

Seraphim
02-14-2013, 11:27 AM
I'm not in favor of publically funded vouchers - I was just saying that it's a lot better than the current system.

I'm and ANCAP for all intent and purposes. I want public education ended on all levels and education to manifest itself privately as learning and accredation is required.


I have a bad feeling that vouchers will end up paving the way to strict regulation of private schools and banning home-schooling.

erowe1
02-14-2013, 11:29 AM
I'm not in favor of publically funded vouchers - I was just saying that it's a lot better than the current system.

There are a lot of reasons to think that. And maybe they are. But there are always unintended consequences.

XTreat
02-14-2013, 12:16 PM
I think vouchers would be the best incremental way to eliminate public schools and thereafter all public involvement. Unless you think you can convince enough people to vote them away.

Seraphim
02-14-2013, 01:47 PM
Incrementalism has it's place. Vouchers would likely lead to a strong development in private schools, thus allowing for a smoother transition out of the public structure.


I think vouchers would be the best incremental way to eliminate public schools and thereafter all public involvement. Unless you think you can convince enough people to vote them away.

KrokHead
02-16-2013, 06:14 AM
1. It should be decided upon at the state/local level
2. It'd be even nicer if there were minimum vouchers
3. Even if education was completely private and there was a disadvantage to not to be able to afford a better school, public schools hardly equalize. (NYC schools for example are usually keep their populations homogeneous)

VoluntaryAmerican
02-17-2013, 08:46 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VucczIg98Gw

tttppp
02-17-2013, 10:36 PM
1. It should be decided upon at the state/local level
2. It'd be even nicer if there were minimum vouchers
3. Even if education was completely private and there was a disadvantage to not to be able to afford a better school, public schools hardly equalize. (NYC schools for example are usually keep their populations homogeneous)


The governments only function in school is to make sure poor people can afford school with the least interferance. They have turned one small need into way too much government. If they just removed lending regulations, that would make it easier for poor people to pay for school. Instead we have opted for complete communism in education.