Another Man Fires Shots at First Responders (Alabama)

[Nirvikalpa]

Thankfully, no one was hit.

-----------------

http://statter911.com/2012/12/28/alabama-firefighters-fired-on-during-medical-call-no-one-hit-man-arrested/


A suspect is in custody after allegedly shooting at firefighters responding to a call in Lake Cyrus early this morning (Thursday).

Fire officials say firefighters responded to a medical call at 4 a.m. When they arrived, a suspected fired shots at them.

As firefighters entered through the front door, police say Phillip Earl Jones Jr. opened fire. The firefighters retreated to a position of safety, said Hoover police Capt. Jim Coker. No one was injured by the gunfire.

Three firemen took refuge in the Lake Cyrus Country Club during the incident.

[Dr.3D]

Lately there seems to be a concerted effort to bring firearms into the spotlight.

[tony m]

The more seen on TV, the more there will be.

[pcosmar]

Thankfully, no one was hit.


Except the man who defended his home.

Did these "first Responders" have a warrant? (I saw no mention of it)

There was NO Fire. Only a home invasion.


Jones fired several shots as firemen entered the front door.

[Nirvikalpa]

Except the man who defended his home.

Did these "first Responders" have a warrant? (I saw no mention of it)

There was NO Fire. Only a home invasion.

It wasn't a fire call, it was a medical call. And where do you see that the man was "hit," I see no firearm injuries...

I would rather EMS have to get warrants to enter anybody's home. Half my patients would be dead by then, and the most stable patient I will ever get is a dead one. Would make my life a hell of a lot easier.

[pcosmar]

It wasn't a fire call, it was a medical call. And where do you see that the man was "hit," I see no firearm injuries...

So home invasion is OK as long as there is an anonymous call? (SWATing)

Responding police units took Jones into custody and transported him to Shelby Baptist Hospital where he was treated for minor injuries and released a short time later.

He was taken to Shelby Baptist Hospital where he was treated for minor injuries.

the only injuries reported were to Jones (the victim)

[tod evans]

When I worked ambulance in the service we were invited into homes in order to attend to the patient.

It's difficult for me to envision a person first inviting the paramedics in and then shooting at them..

I've gotta wonder what really happened...

[Dr.3D]

Maybe it was a case of, "I called paramedics and firefighters showed up."

[Nirvikalpa]

Most firefighters are EMT's. Mostly it's firefighters that will show up to your door if you call 911 even for a medical emergency, outside of private transport companies or volunteer EMS agencies.

In the cities, it is almost always firemenEMTs.

Why do I even bother on this forum. I really should have my head examined.

[Dr.3D]

Most firefighters are EMT's. Mostly it's firefighters that will show up to your door if you call 911 even for a medical emergency, outside of private transport companies or volunteer EMS agencies.

In the cities, it is almost always firemenEMTs.
Maybe he didn't know that.

[tod evans]

Most firefighters are EMT's. Mostly it's firefighters that will show up to your door if you call 911 even for a medical emergency, outside of private transport companies or volunteer EMS agencies.

In the cities, it is almost always firemenEMTs.

Why do I even bother on this forum. I really should have my head examined.

Do they barge in or knock?

We were taught to knock and wait for the homeowner to invite us in but that was 30+ years ago...

[Confederate]

Do they barge in or knock?

We were taught to knock and wait for the homeowner to invite us in but that was 30+ years ago...

Manners sure have changed since then.

[pcosmar]

Most firefighters are EMT's. Mostly it's firefighters that will show up to your door if you call 911 even for a medical emergency, outside of private transport companies or volunteer EMS agencies.

In the cities, it is almost always firemenEMTs.

Why do I even bother on this forum. I really should have my head examined.

They still do not have any right or authority to enter someones home without permission.

Without permission it is still a home invasion regardless of their reasons.

And with your chosen profession,,you should really be aware of Swatting.. and make extra care that you are not walking into it.
Swatting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatting


Swatting is an attempt to trick any emergency service (such as a 9-1-1 dispatcher) into dispatching any emergency response based on a false reporting of an incident. Incidents may range from large to small, from an entire SWAT unit to a fabricated police report meant to discredit an individual as a prank or personal vendetta.

[Nirvikalpa]

Maybe he didn't know that.

Or maybe he was a fucking lunatic who was inspired by the other EMT shooting in NY.

We all can make up our own stories to coincide with this.

I think someone has the personal responsibility of knowing what is going to occur once you dial 9-1-1, whether it be knowing if police/fire are going to respond, or if your city is staffed by paid/volunteer EMT's. Really not hard to find either, as a quick google search will give you that information. Because responding to a medical call in which you called us and then getting fired at is not in my agenda as an EMT.

As I said, I would praise having to get warrants. Those calls where "time is of the essence," like stroke or heart attack symptoms, unconscious/unresponsive... would be a basic transport I wouldn't have to be breaking my back over. Because they'd be dead.

[Nirvikalpa]

They still do not have any right or authority to enter someones home without permission.

Without permission it is still a home invasion regardless of their reasons.

And with your chosen profession,,you should really be aware of Swatting.. and make extra care that you are not walking into it.
Swatting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatting

Sounds good to me. And as someone is laying hurt in their house (from a fall, heart attack, stroke, what have you), then I can just turn around and head back to my ambulance after knocking on the door to no response, and all will be right in the world?

[pcosmar]

Sounds good to me. And as someone is laying hurt in their house (from a fall, heart attack, stroke, what have you), then I can just turn around after knocking on the door to no response, and all will be right in the world?

Or you can follow a FALSE Report into someones home who is ready to defend his home.

Anyone can call a false report in.

Kick in the front door of someone who believes that his home and life is threatened,, and you may be on the receiving end of his defense.

There have been several documented cases.. I suspect there are even more undocumented ones.

And the media is NEVER going to report that a homeowner was right to fire on police (or any uniformed responder)

[Nirvikalpa]

So basically, if it is a true emergency, I waste precious time and my patient dies for the one or two scumbags in the world who *may* be trying to fuck with me. Got it.

Why do I get the impression it's more likely the people around these parts who would fuck with a first responder...

[phill4paul]

So basically, if it is a true emergency, I waste precious time and my patient dies for the one or two scumbags in the world who *may* be trying to fuck with me. Got it.

Why do I get the impression it's more likely the people around these parts who would fuck with a first responder...

If a first responder (or anyone) was to enter my home at 4:am in the morning without permission then, yes, I would "fuck" with them.

There is much missing here. WHO made the call? Before entering did the first responders ask permission to enter? Were they given a response as to whether they might enter? As with most news reports...long on drama..short on details.

[Brian4Liberty]

The more seen on TV, the more there will be.

Copycats do exist...

[shane77m]

If a first responder (or anyone) was to enter my home at 4:am in the morning without permission then, yes, I would "fuck" with them.

There is much missing here. WHO made the call? Before entering did the first responders ask permission to enter? Were they given a response as to whether they might enter? As with most news reports...long on drama..short on details.

Yes there are a lot of details missing. Makes the comments under the story that much more precious.

[Brian4Liberty]

There is much missing here. WHO made the call? Before entering did the first responders ask permission to enter? Were they given a response as to whether they might enter? As with most news reports...long on drama..short on details.

Typical. As long as they can push the anti-gun hysteria, they will leave selected details out.

[phill4paul]

Yes there are a lot of details missing. Makes the comments under the story that much more precious.


Typical. As long as they can push the anti-gun hysteria, they will leave selected details out.

I am amazed this hasn't gone into national syndication yet.

[Neil Desmond]

Typical. As long as they can push the anti-gun hysteria, they will leave selected details out.
I agree; here are some questions for which I'd like to know the answers:

1. What was the emergency that was called in or reported?

2. Was it a legitimate call? Was there a real victim or someone actually needing emergency attention?

3. Who called to report an emergency? Do they have a name for the individual? I'd like to know if they have spoken to this individual in person (for me, to verify that they did indeed place a call or report an emergency).

[pcosmar]

Or maybe he was a fucking lunatic who was inspired by the other EMT shooting in NY.



I have no full picture of the incident in NY.. But the firefighters were COPS.
I have no idea whether he was shooting at "firefighters" or shooting at COPS.
I also have no clear picture of why,, as the media is horribly skewed.

Perhaps the guy in New York had good reason TO FIRE ON THEM. Perhaps not..
but the media would not report a good reason if he had one.

And now a man defending his home is the lunatic.. and the home invaders are "heroes".

:(

[Confederate]

I agree; here are some questions for which I'd like to know the answers:

1. What was the emergency that was called in or reported?

2. Was it a legitimate call? Was there a real victim or someone actually needing emergency attention?

3. Who called to report an emergency? Do they have a name for the individual? I'd like to know if they have spoken to this individual in person (for me, to verify that they did indeed place a call or report an emergency).

Unfortunately 911 calls in Alabama aren't public record anymore.


Ala. Code § 11-98-12
Audio recording of 911 telephone call
(a) After the effective date of this act, an emergency communications district may not release the audio recording of a 911 telephone call except pursuant to a court order finding that the right of the public to the release of the recording outweighs the privacy interests of the individual who made the 911 call or any persons involved in the facts or circumstances relating to the 911 call. This section shall not apply to law enforcement personnel conducting an investigation where the 911 telephone call is or may be relevant to the investigation.

[VBRonPaulFan]

So basically, if it is a true emergency, I waste precious time and my patient dies for the one or two scumbags in the world who *may* be trying to fuck with me. Got it.

Why do I get the impression it's more likely the people around these parts who would fuck with a first responder...

it isn't the modus operandi of you guys to openly and frequently try to identify yourself when you're helping yourself into someones house, especially super early in the morning or very late at night?

(i'm not being sarcastic, if it was 4am and I was sleeping, and someone barged in I would assume they were trying to rob me - even if they were dressed up like police/firefighters/whatever. there are plenty of stories of criminals impersonating those types to get people to let their guard down).

[QuickZ06]

If a first responder (or anyone) was to enter my home at 4:am in the morning without permission then, yes, I would "fuck" with them.

There is much missing here. WHO made the call? Before entering did the first responders ask permission to enter? Were they given a response as to whether they might enter? As with most news reports...long on drama..short on details.

This, we are missing a lot of details that are indeed needed.

[Neil Desmond]

Ok, here's what I propose:

From now on, when a 911 call is placed, the dispatcher or whoever is handling the call needs to make arrangements with the caller for gaining access to the person or facility. If for whatever reason this isn't done, then it needs to be turned over to police to either knock on a door, break the door down, or do whatever is necessary to make sure the scene (or whatever you want to call the place that's having the incident) is not a danger to fire fighters, EMTs, parametics, whatever. I suppose exceptions could be made if the house is on fire and arrangements cannot be made by someone to answer the door.

If this looks good, then pass this on to your county or state legislators to require that these policies be put in place.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Or maybe he was a fucking lunatic who was inspired by the other EMT shooting in NY.



I also remember hearing the military is doing this with drones. I don't have a source.


Well, kinda. - firing on first responders that is, after firing previously.

[Nirvikalpa]

I have no full picture of the incident in NY.. But the firefighters were COPS.
I have no idea whether he was shooting at "firefighters" or shooting at COPS.
I also have no clear picture of why,, as the media is horribly skewed.

Perhaps the guy in New York had good reason TO FIRE ON THEM. Perhaps not..
but the media would not report a good reason if he had one.

And now a man defending his home is the lunatic.. and the home invaders are "heroes".

:(

Jesus Christ Pete, what has gotten into you?

The one firefighter was a cop on the side, yes. But he was acting as a fireman responding to a fire call (and yes, there was a house on fire... it was a ply to get them to come) in a FIRE TRUCK so I am damn sure he knew he was firing at firemen. The 19 y.o shot was not a cop, and was only a fireman for a little over a year with that department. The only thing the 19 y.o did besides being a firefighter was he was a 911 dispatcher...

Not to mention the nut that killed them also killed his sister, and bludgeoned his grandmother to death years prior...

Good lord. What the fuck.

[pcosmar]

If this looks good, then pass this on to your county or state legislators to require that these policies be put in place.
This looks good to me,

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized

Perhaps an addition for any that would violate someones home for any reason.

[pcosmar]

Jesus Christ Pete, what has gotten into you?.

Well to start with,, I only have a ONE Sided Media to base information on.
I do not have a full picture of the interactions of those involved. But have obvious doubts that the story is complete.


The one firefighter was a cop on the side, yes. But he was acting as a fireman responding to a fire call (and yes, there was a house on fire... it was a ply to get them to come) in a FIRE TRUCK so I am damn sure he knew he was firing at firemen. The 19 y.o shot was not a cop, and was only a fireman for a little over a year with that department. The only thing the 19 y.o did besides being a firefighter was he was a 911 dispatcher...

Not to mention the nut that killed them also killed his sister, and bludgeoned his grandmother to death years prior...

Good lord. What the fuck.

if you wish honesty,,then use some.. He was convicted of Manslaughter. NOT MURDER.
And,, if my own life is any indication,, was hounded and fucked with for decades since.

the realities of a conviction.

I have no idea How or who started the fire..


When these fucks start kicking in doors to confiscate weapons,, and someone resists,,
I do not expect to hear that the homeowner was a hero for standing his ground.

I expect the media to go on about what an evil deranged PERSON THEY WERE.

[Neil Desmond]

This looks good to me,


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized

Perhaps an addition for any that would violate someones home for any reason.
Take a look at the fourth amendment to the US Constitution - you'll be amazed at the similarity and perhaps happy to know that it's already there.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

In the world of the social communism, in order to achieve liberty and equality as an end, it is necessary to utilize cruel means to do so. In other words, in the mind of a social communist, such destabilizing tactics as shooting at first-responders would be considered a necessity in order to achieve the perfect goal of a communist paradise. Do away with all guns and there would be peace on earth and good will towards men.
But, then again, what really fuels the destabilization towards the achieving of this absurd goal is the fact that many of the so-called conservatives in this forum go stark crazy mad over liberty as a cause. You see, as I've said all along, in order to keep from wasting our time, we have to understand such emotional words as liberty and equality as prerequisite means towards the achievement of the greater end result of happiness. To defeat the social communist, one must establish contentment as a goal over liberty and equlity. This is a subtle point as contentment is a dynamic term when compared to such responsible terms as liberty and equality. Metaphorically speaking, as liberty and equality are apples to be shot out of a tree in order to achieve them, the idea of contentment would be the blue sky that must be aimed towards in order to do so.

[Henry Rogue]

I'm content with my desire for Liberty.

[Henry Rogue]

In the world of the social communism, in order to achieve liberty and equality as an end, it is necessary to utilize cruel means to do so. In other words, in the mind of a social communist, such destabilizing tactics as shooting at first-responders would be considered a necessity in order to achieve the perfect goal of a communist paradise. Do away with all guns and there would be peace on earth and good will towards men.
But, then again, what really fuels the destabilization towards the achieving of this absurd goal is the fact that many of the so-called conservatives in this forum go stark crazy mad over liberty as a cause. You see, as I've said all along, in order to keep from wasting our time, we have to understand such emotional words as liberty and equality as prerequisite means towards the achievement of the greater end result of happiness. To defeat the social communist, one must establish contentment as a goal over liberty and equlity. This is a subtle point as contentment is a dynamic term when compared to such responsible terms as liberty and equality. Metaphorically speaking, as liberty and equality are apples to be shot out of a tree in order to achieve them, the idea of contentment would be the blue sky that must be aimed towards in order to do so.
The problem with any kind of socialist, is they are always trying to achieve some end goal. Some utopia and the end justifies the means. It always is about controlling and forcing others to conform. Liberty is about living ones own life and not being a slave to you, your end goal or any other.

[shane77m]

I am involved in a conversation on the site now. This is the most thoughtful response I have gotten so far.
"Where they at the right house. I agree there is 2 sides to ever story. I have been given the wrong addreess before it happens. "
Edit:
It stinks that someone was almost killed. Hopefully some more details will come out. I would like to know if this guy is simply a nut or a guy that thought his life was threatened.

[AFPVet]

The more they glamorize unlawful shootings in the media, the worse it's going to be... this creates copy cats.