Another "train pushing" murder in NYC's subway system

[Anti Federalist]

I wonder if he flailed around on the tracks for minute or more, without anybody trying to help, before getting hit?

Watch your back NYC RPF members.

Incredibly rare events, given how many millions travel every week by subway in NYC, but still, what a way to go.



Man dead after train push horror in Queens

By LARRY CELONA and LIA EUSTACHEWICH
Last Updated: 12:11 AM, December 28, 2012
Posted: 8:58 PM, December 27, 2012

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/queens/man_dead_in_train_push_horror_in_9GAX83oeSi36YYRTZ 77AqO

A madwoman pushed a stranger onto subway tracks in Queens tonight -- where he was killed by an oncoming train, police and witnesses said.

The unsuspecting victim was waiting at the elevated 40th Street station of the No. 7 line in Sunnyside at 8 p.m. when he was shoved.

“This lady, she just pushed the guy on the tracks. Then she ran away. I was screaming and closing my eyes,” said a witness.

“I knew he was gonna get hit by the train. That’s why I closed my eyes. I didn’t want to see it.”

The woman said she was one of about eight people on the platform who witnessed the violence.

“I could see him, and I could see a train coming. And I couldn’t do anything. I was so helpless. He was trying to get up. It was so fast,” she added.

The assailant said nothing as she pushed the man to his doom, a law-enforcement source said.

“He didn’t even know she was there,” the source added.

It was the second deadly subway shove this month.

Last night’s victim, whose identity was withheld pending family notification, was fatally struck by the Flushing-bound train.

“He looked shocked. He didn’t scream,” said the woman.

Following the impact, the man’s mangled body was wedged between the train’s second car and the tracks.

Witnesses told investigators that the woman had been sitting on a bench, talking to herself.

At times, she paced back and forth.

“She was acting weird and crazy,” the source said.

After the attack, she fled down the stairs to Queens Boulevard.

“The lady just ran. She was so fast. I was like, ‘Stop the lady!’ ” said the woman, who chased the suspect with several others but were unable to catch her.

The witness said she did not hear any arguing beforehand and other witnesses also reported no interaction between the two.

“My customer came in out of breath saying, ‘My God! They pushed a man in front of the subway.’ It’s a shame this happens right after Christmas,” said a nearby shop owner.

The perp was described as a 5-foot-5 Hispanic woman, weighing about 190 pounds and between 20 and 25 years old. She has short, dark, curly hair and was last seen wearing a gray and white ski coat.

On Dec. 3, homeless drifter Naeem Davis, 30, allegedly shoved Queens father Ki Suk Han, 58, into the path of a Q-train at the 49th Street station in Manhattan. Davis is being held without bail on murder charges.

[kcchiefs6465]

Should I break down this story in comparison to the other? She apparently pushed a man in front of a train. There is a serious difference. First, the man was pushed when a train was nearing, how was anyone seriously supposed to attempt a rescue when it happened as a train was arriving? Would you risk yourself being grabbed and pulled in? (Very likely losing your arm/life should you not successfully pull him up in <2-10 seconds? (this is including, of course, the reaction time of realizing what has happened) The fuck were they really supposed to do? There is a live wire that will melt you to concrete, as I am sure you are aware. I understand that you want to believe you would save the day but quite honestly, you probably wouldn't. And the people who did not, should not be in any way put through the what could have, should have, would have happened, 'routine.'

[Antischism]

Ugh, that's awful. I generally hate taking the 7 train in the above-ground stations because the platforms are really narrow compared to the majority of stations in the city. It makes me feel a little claustrophobic I guess, but there's really nowhere to go or anything to grab on to. The stairs are very few and far between, and there aren't any pillars you can stand next to or hold in the stations like most you would find underground.

This might be a copy-cat event, but the woman sounds like she may have been suffering with schizophrenia of some sort. I actually see a lot of these people in our subway system, just pacing about, talking to themselves, rambling incoherently, etc.

I wish they would implement guard rails in our subways separating people from the tracks. Just have them open when a train comes to a halt, and automatically close when the train leaves the station. They have them in Fukuoka, Japan: http://www.flickr.com/photos/technicle/2138868581/lightbox/

I always make sure I'm as far away from the tracks as possible, and keep close to objects I can hold on to in case some nut tries anything funny.

In this particular case with the train approaching so quickly, there was nothing anyone could do but watch in horror (or close their eyes). There have actually be cases where people have been rescued from the tracks before, but these events all happen very rarely.

Here's one example: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/03/nyregion/03life.html

[Anti Federalist]

Should I break down this story in comparison to the other? She apparently pushed a man in front of a train. There is a serious difference. First, the man was pushed when a train was nearing, how was anyone seriously supposed to attempt a rescue when it happened apparently as a train was arriving? Would you risk yourself being grabbed and pulled in? (Very likely losing your arm/life should you not successfully pull him up in <2-10 seconds? (this is including, of course, the reaction time of realizing what has happened) The fuck were they really supposed to do? There is a live wire that will melt you to concrete, as I am sure you are aware. I understand that you want to believe you would save the day but quite honestly, you probably wouldn't. And the people who did not, should not be in any way put through the what could have, should have, would have happened, 'routine.'

I don't know what the circumstances were nor how much time had elapsed.

That is not made clear in article.

If it was only a matter of seconds, yeah, there probably wasn't much anybody could have done.

If 30 or 60 or 90 seconds elapsed like the other case, then you have different story.

I know this pisses people off for some odd reason, but why is so hard to believe that in a split second you can act to "save the day"?

I have, more than once.

Granted it was 15-20 odd years ago, when I was younger and in better shape, but I can still react quickly, my line of work depends on it in fact.

[TheTexan]

What's NYC waiting for? Why hasn't it started spending shitloads of money to child-proof the subway system?

[Anti Federalist]

What's NYC waiting for? Why hasn't it started spending shitloads of money to child-proof the subway system?

New York City.

If this was our business, we'd be in jail and bankrupt by now.

[AGRP]

Many building codes states you must have a safety rail on your home deck if its a few feet above the ground.

[kcchiefs6465]

Ugh, that's awful. I generally hate taking the 7 train in the above-ground stations because the platforms are really narrow compared to the majority of stations in the city. It makes me feel a little claustrophobic I guess, but there's really nowhere to go or anything to grab on to. The stairs are very few and far between, and there aren't any pillars you can stand next to or hold in the stations like most you would find underground.

This might be a copy-cat event, but the woman sounds like she may have been suffering with schizophrenia of some sort. I actually see a lot of these people in our subway system, just pacing about, talking to themselves, rambling incoherently, etc.

I wish they would implement guard rails in our subways separating people from the tracks. Just have them open when a train comes to a halt, and automatically close when the train leaves the station. They have them in Fukuoka, Japan: http://www.flickr.com/photos/technicle/2138868581/lightbox/

I always make sure I'm as far away from the tracks as possible, and keep close to objects I can hold on to in case some nut tries anything funny.

In this particular case with the train approaching so quickly, there was nothing anyone could do but watch in horror (or close their eyes). There have actually be cases where people have been rescued from the tracks before, but these events all happen very rarely.
Here's one example: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/03/nyregion/03life.html
Riding the bus in the city is an experience in itself. (Not NYC) There are all sorts of people you would not, nor could not have a conversation with. If a person decided to push someone in front of an upcoming subway train (which is what, as of now, I understand to be the case) there is nothing that could have been done. You are very right in that you should always keep your eyes on your surroundings and never put anything past what could be in someone's mind. Very sad indeed. (As I would imagine the case to be is him minding his own business as a random (probable) drug addict (crack cocaine, formaldehyde, 'bath salt' user) pushed him onto the tracks. I don't want to be misinterpreted as saying that she even had drugs in her system. She very possibly did not. I would bet my last dollar on that she was a drug addict.

I could tell a few stories of some people I would not stand by any tracks with.

[Demigod]

Riding the bus in the city is an experience in itself. (Not NYC) There are all sorts of people you would not, nor could not have a conversation with. If a person decided to push someone in front of an upcoming subway train (which is what, as of now, I understand to be the case) there is nothing that could have been done. You are very right in that you should always keep your eyes on your surroundings and never put anything past what could be in someone's mind. Very sad indeed. (As I would imagine the case to be is him minding his own business as a random (probable) drug addict (crack cocaine, formaldehyde, 'bath salt' user) pushed him onto the tracks. I don't want to be misinterpreted as saying that she even had drugs in her system. She very possibly did not. I would bet my last dollar on that she was a drug addict.


I could tell a few stories of some people I would not stand by any tracks with.

They could put at least a rail or a plexiglass wall.

[jmdrake]

Should I break down this story in comparison to the other? She apparently pushed a man in front of a train. There is a serious difference. First, the man was pushed when a train was nearing, how was anyone seriously supposed to attempt a rescue when it happened as a train was arriving? Would you risk yourself being grabbed and pulled in? (Very likely losing your arm/life should you not successfully pull him up in <2-10 seconds? (this is including, of course, the reaction time of realizing what has happened) The fuck were they really supposed to do? There is a live wire that will melt you to concrete, as I am sure you are aware. I understand that you want to believe you would save the day but quite honestly, you probably wouldn't. And the people who did not, should not be in any way put through the what could have, should have, would have happened, 'routine.'

Where I am in my life now I probably would have attempted a rescue, but that's saying more about how my life sucks at the moment than any sort of "hero complex". I don't blame anyone for "not doing" I suppose. As for the "live wire" issue, I wouldn't have jumped down, but reached over to try to pull him up.

Something else to think about. Video games today train people to kill without thinking. That's why the army uses them. But what kind of conditioning would be required for people to save without thinking? Note I'm not saying this as a knock on violent video games. I just wonder, though, why so little of modern entertainment seems geared toward encouraging selfless acts of risky kindness?

[jmdrake]

What's NYC waiting for? Why hasn't it started spending shitloads of money to child-proof the subway system?

Good question.

[Confederate]

What's NYC waiting for? Why hasn't it started spending shitloads of money to child-proof the subway system?

Platform screen doors are common across Asia:

http://www.platformscreendoors.com/media/pictures/psdpics/shanghiametro/shanghailine1large_zoom.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8281/7546185822_38050f9257_z.jpg

[jkr]

ban
NYC

[FindLiberty]

also ban
MSM

[kcchiefs6465]

Where I am in my life now I probably would have attempted a rescue, but that's saying more about how my life sucks at the moment than any sort of "hero complex". I don't blame anyone for "not doing" I suppose. As for the "live wire" issue, I wouldn't have jumped down, but reached over to try to pull him up.

Something else to think about. Video games today train people to kill (or do anything for that matter) without thinking. That's why the army uses them. But what kind of conditioning would be required for people to save without thinking? Note I'm not saying this as a knock on violent video games. I just wonder, though, why so little of modern entertainment seems geared toward encouraging selfless acts of risky kindness?
I thoughtlessly save plenty a people playing Call of Duty. From what I understand about this case is that the time wasn't available to attempt a rescue. I would suggest playing said games to see how much it truly conditions you to kill without thinking. Do you feel the same about paintball? Airsoft? And also what video games is the army using to train it's soldiers? Certain munition systems being controlled by an XBOX controller is not the same. (this is sensical as many young men are already familiar with the controller layout)

ETA: After doing a little looking for the name of the system where they turn your gun into a blank-firing laser painter that signals when you have been shot or shot someone during training exercises I found the name of FATS. (Not what I was looking for so +rep to anyone who can tell me the name of what I'm talking about) FATS (Firearms Training Simulator) is not to condition someone to be a thoughtless killer. (in the sense that you mentioned) It is to speed up reaction time to thoughtlessly run through the motions of identifying a target and engaging. You are implying that video games can be used to turn someone into an assassin or something. They really aren't that effective. You can have someone play a FP train saving game for a year and they still very well might not have acted, or botched the rescue and got themselves killed in the process.. and on that same coin you can have another group of people who have not played said train saving video game and they very well might have acted, or not acted, or got themselves deep fried when the victim accidently touches the third rail.

[Confederate]

Don't NYC subway platform have an area under the edge of the platform where you can hide in case of this? Every single subway I've ridden, London, Moscow, Paris, Berlin, Madrid, Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur, Vancouver, has it....

[VBRonPaulFan]

BAN ASSAULT TRAINS AND BAN ASSAULT HANDS.

It's the only way to keep the kids safe.

[matt0611]

I always stand with my back towards a wall when I can whenever I ride the subway in Boston.

[Nirvikalpa]

I'm not standing anywhere but with my back at the wall in the subways... I take the 7 all the time (as does Matt). Matt's an idiot and stands as close to the train as he could get as it goes through the station, despite my pleas.

[Confederate]

BAN ASSAULT TRAINS AND BAN ASSAULT HANDS.

It's the only way to keep the kids safe.

Might as well ban leaving the house. No wait, there are too many dangerous objects inside the home. Better send us all to FEMA camps where the government can keep us safe 100% of the time.

[Nirvikalpa]

Where I am in my life now I probably would have attempted a rescue, but that's saying more about how my life sucks at the moment than any sort of "hero complex". I don't blame anyone for "not doing" I suppose. As for the "live wire" issue, I wouldn't have jumped down, but reached over to try to pull him up.

Something else to think about. Video games today train people to kill without thinking. That's why the army uses them. But what kind of conditioning would be required for people to save without thinking? Note I'm not saying this as a knock on violent video games. I just wonder, though, why so little of modern entertainment seems geared toward encouraging selfless acts of risky kindness?

I agree with you wholeheartedly, trust me, but the answer to that is simply that they would not sell.

[Danke]

Don't NYC subway platform have an area under the edge of the platform where you can hide in case of this? Every single subway I've ridden, London, Moscow, Paris, Berlin, Madrid, Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur, Vancouver, has it....

When I read up on the last incident, sounds like some do, some don't.

[jmdrake]

A) While I haven't played Call of Duty, I did spend a lot of time playing Unreal Tournament. There's no "risk your life to save someone from death" mode.
B) I never said anything about turning someone into an assassin so quit being defensive. I was talking about the "reflex kill" attribute that the U.S. military brags about soldiers, sailors and marines having developed. And it's not necessarily a bad thing. If you walk around the corner and see 3 armed Taliban taking a coffee break, if you can shoot and kill them without having to stop and think about it that can save your life. I have read about that exact scenario happening.

Enjoy playing your game.


I thoughtlessly save plenty a people playing Call of Duty. From what I understand about this case is that the time wasn't available to attempt a rescue. I would suggest playing said games to see how much it truly conditions you to kill without thinking. Do you feel the same about paintball? Airsoft? And also what video games is the army using to train it's soldiers? Certain munition systems being controlled by an XBOX controller is not the same. (this is sensical as many young men are already familiar with the controller layout)

ETA: After doing a little looking for the name of the system where they turn your gun into a blank-firing laser painter that signals when you have been shot or shot someone during training exercises I found the name of FATS. (Not what I was looking for so +rep to anyone who can tell me the name of what I'm talking about) FATS (Firearms Training Simulator) is not to condition someone to be a thoughtless killer. (in the sense that you mentioned) It is to speed up reaction time to thoughtlessly run through the motions of identifying a target and engaging. You are implying that video games can be used to turn someone into an assassin or something. They really aren't that effective. You can have someone play a FP train saving game for a year and they still very well might not have acted, or botched the rescue and got themselves killed in the process.. and on that same coin you can have another group of people who have not played said train saving video game and they very well might have acted, or not acted, or got themselves deep fried when the victim accidently touches the third rail.

[kcchiefs6465]

A) While I haven't played Call of Duty, I did spend a lot of time playing Unreal Tournament. There's no "risk your life to save someone from death" mode.
B) I never said anything about turning someone into an assassin so quit being defensive. I was talking about the "reflex kill" attribute that the U.S. military brags about soldiers, sailors and marines having developed. And it's not necessarily a bad thing. If you walk around the corner and see 3 armed Taliban taking a coffee break, if you can shoot and kill them without having to stop and think about it that can save your life. I have read about that exact scenario happening.

Enjoy playing your game.
Touché.

[jmdrake]

I hate giving the government more ideas on how to spend money...but really there's no excuse not to have such safety feature.


Platform screen doors are common across Asia:

http://www.platformscreendoors.com/media/pictures/psdpics/shanghiametro/shanghailine1large_zoom.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8281/7546185822_38050f9257_z.jpg

[Confederate]

I hate giving the government more ideas on how to spend money...but really there's no excuse not to have such safety feature.

Problem is if you have human driven trains you don't get the precision to line them up with the platform doors, which is an added expense in making the trains driverless. Also, if you have different rolling stock running on the same line it won't work.

[AGRP]

I hate giving the government more ideas on how to spend money...but really there's no excuse not to have such safety feature.

There are excuses in no accountability land. Just hand over your hard earned money you greedy slave and everything will be ok. Wouldnt it be cool to instal a third rail type torcher device that would electrocute those daring enough to venture across the moat for more entertainment? Oh, wait there is:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riAJ_LQFli8

[seapilot]

Train kills guy because psychopath pushes him. Logic...Ban all trains.

The real issue is why are these psychopaths roaming free among everyone else? Who or what is responsible for that?

[Confederate]

Train kills guy because psychopath pushes him. Logic...Ban all trains.

The real issue is why are these psychopaths roaming free among everyone else? Who or what is responsible for that?

Ban psychopaths!

[Lucille]

Woman accused of murder as a hate crime in NYC subway push death
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/29/justice/new-york-subway-death/index.html


New York (CNN) -- A 31-year-old Bronx woman has been charged with second-degree murder as a hate crime in the death of a man shoved in front of a subway train, Queens prosecutors said Saturday.
[...]
"(She) said in sum and substance 'I pushed a Muslim off the train tracks because I hate Hindus and Muslims ever since 2001 when they put down the twin towers I've been beating them up,'" the prosecutor said in a statement.

The victim, Sunando Sen, grew up in a Hindu family, his roommate said.

[Nirvikalpa]

I guarantee there are people who read the article and the statements and go "good for her."

[jmdrake]

I guarantee there are people who read the article and the statements and go "good for her."

Sadly I must admit you are probably right. :(

[jmdrake]

There are excuses in no accountability land. Just hand over your hard earned money you greedy slave and everything will be ok. Wouldnt it be cool to instal a third rail type torcher device that would electrocute those daring enough to venture across the moat for more entertainment? Oh, wait there is:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riAJ_LQFli8

That...was...disturbing. And yeah I see your point. If this was a privately owned and operated train that would be a for sure lawsuit.

[Lucille]

I guarantee there are people who read the article and the statements and go "good for her."

There were several of those types in the comments section.

[acptulsa]

Train kills guy because psychopath pushes him. Logic...Ban all trains.

Trains, cars, boxcutters, power tools, blunt objects (including but not limited to hammers, statuettes, plumbing pipe, chairs, vases, table lamps, hand tools, fence posts, pottery, canoe paddles, rolling pins, jelly jars...)

[jonhowe]

In many stations (including the one from earlier this month) there are cutouts every few feet you can huddle in when the train passes. Not so on above ground stations, I think.

As a regular rider, this freaks me out. There are a lot of nutty people on the trains I take and copycatting wouldnt shock me.



EDIT: HOLY CRAP that video is nasty. I thought it said "Fired", so I didn't realize what was going to happen...

[Anti Federalist]

December death count - 1


There are excuses in no accountability land. Just hand over your hard earned money you greedy slave and everything will be ok. Wouldnt it be cool to instal a third rail type torcher device that would electrocute those daring enough to venture across the moat for more entertainment? Oh, wait there is:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riAJ_LQFli8

[Brian4Liberty]

Another crazy roaming the streets. She had an extensive history with the Police and mental health people.

[alucard13mmfmj]

I think platform doors and walls will get all messed up with graffiti and vandalism.

[truelies]

We need to Ban trains BEFORE a child dies.

[pacelli]

BAN ASSAULT TRAINS AND BAN ASSAULT HANDS.

It's the only way to keep the kids safe.

I was going to say, are they going to ban assault subways and ski jackets now?

Maybe the lady that pushed him was withdrawing from soda?

[jonhowe]

I think platform doors and walls will get all messed up with graffiti and vandalism.

In all fairness, graffiti is almost non existent on trains in NYC now.

[Confederate]

I think platform doors and walls will get all messed up with graffiti and vandalism.

Americans can't have nice things.