PDA

View Full Version : 4 firefighters shot, 2 dead, after responding to blaze




dannno
12-24-2012, 11:15 AM
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/24/16125861-4-firefighters-shot-2-dead-after-responding-to-blaze?lite


4 firefighters shot, 2 dead, after responding to blaze

By Jason White, NBC News

Four firefighters were shot -- two fatally -- as they responded to a large fire early Monday in Webster, N.Y., in the northwestern part of the state.

When the firefighters, believed to be volunteers, arrived on the scene of the blaze around 6 a.m. ET and exited their vehicles, they were fired upon, police and fire officials said.

“These firemen are part of our family. You go into a fire with these guys. To see them go down with something like this is totally unexpected. We are in shock,” Billy Gross, fire commissioner for West Webster, told the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle.

The gunfire forced firefighters to flee from the scene of the blaze -- a narrow spit of land, with Lake Ontario on one side and Irondequoit Bay on the other. The two firefighters who were hit but survived are being treated at a local hospital for their wounds.

"Miserable thing to happen this time of year," Mark Johns, a state assemblyman who represents the area, told local NBC station WHEC. Johns said he knew some of the firefighters who were shot.

Police say there is no longer an "active shooting" situation, but residents of the area were being evacuated, and police were searching them as they left, the newspaper reported.

“I’m not aware of anything like this happening in Webster, obviously not a firefighter being fired upon,” Webster Fire Marshal Rob Boutillier said, according to the Democrat and Chronicle.

After the shooting, the fire grew to engulf at least three homes and one motor vehicle. It is now under control.

Michael Damico was among those forced to flee, according to the Democrat and Chronicle.

“The whole strip’s been evacuated,” Damico said. “They’re evacuating all of the houses and going through them.”

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo issued a statement after the shooting, offering his "deepest condolences."

“All of our thoughts and prayers go to the families and friends of those who were killed in this senseless act of violence," Cuomo said. “New York's first responders are true heroes as they time and again selflessly rush toward danger in order to keep our families and communities safe.

Media: All these poor kids just got shot.. Don't you think guns are the problem?

Gun rights activist: No, people need to be armed to protect themselves.

Media: But wait, now a bunch of firefighters got shot responding to a fire.. are you sure guns aren't the problem?? Like, really, really sure????

NRA: We need to arm ALL firefighers!!

:(

Dr.3D
12-24-2012, 11:18 AM
The answer is simple, ban crime. /sarc

Pericles
12-24-2012, 11:26 AM
We need a law against murder.

Dr.3D
12-24-2012, 11:28 AM
We need a law against murder.
Yeah, that would work just as well as banning guns.


Well actually it would work even better. At least people would be able to defend themselves from people trying to break the law against murder.

ravedown
12-24-2012, 11:30 AM
wait- who did the shooting? nice reporting.

Dr.3D
12-24-2012, 11:31 AM
wait- who did the shooting? nice reporting.
They didn't say, and I doubt they know. I suspect it was somebody trying to get guns banned.

Ninja Homer
12-24-2012, 11:35 AM
I just saw this story, and there's so much wrong in it, it sounds really fishy: http://rochester.ynn.com/content/top_stories/624514/police-chief--four-firefighters-shot-at-scene-of-fire--two-killed/


Police Chief: Four firefighters shot at scene of fire, two killed

Two firefighters are confirmed dead after a shooting at a fire scene in Webster, Monroe County. The Webster Police Chief says four firefighters were shot. Two of them were killed, and two are being treated at the hospital.

It all started around 6 a.m. As firefighters arrived, officials say there were reports of multiple shots fired, possibly from a semi-automatic gun. It's unclear if anyone else was injured.

Authorities say there is no longer an active search for the shooter. It appears that the fire has spread to multiple houses but the Webster Fire Marshal, Rob Boutillier, has said that firefighters have been removed from the scene. The fire will burn until it runs out of fuel.

Emergency crews have shut down the roads in the area. Traffic on Bay Road is closed at Backus Road.

There will be a news conference at 12:15 p.m. at Saunders Research Building, 265 Crittenden Boulevard. The trauma doctor who is treating the firefighters will be speaking. Watch it live on YNN.

Statement from Governor Andrew Cuomo:
“State Police and our State Office of Emergency Management are working in conjunction with local law enforcement to respond to the scene of the horrific shooting that occurred early this morning in Webster as firefighters and police responded to a car fire.

All of our thoughts and prayers go to the families and friends of those who were killed in this senseless act of violence.

New York's first responders are true heroes as they time and again selflessly rush toward danger in order to keep our families and communities safe. Volunteer firefighters and police officers were injured and two were taken from us as they once again answered the call of duty. We as the community of New York mourn their loss as now two more families must spend the holidays without their loved ones.

One behalf of my family and all New Yorkers, I offer my deepest condolences to the families and friends of those killed today and pray for the recovery of the injured.”

So these heroic police and firefighters who selflessly rush toward danger time and time again stopped searching for the shooter and let the fire spread to multiple houses until it just burns out? And it might have possibly been a scary semi-automatic gun.

Cleaner44
12-24-2012, 11:38 AM
They probably forgot to type their laws in BOLD and ALL CAPS so they would be really clear. A better law certainly would have prevented the situation. Maybe even use italics to be on the safe side.

The perfect law...

NO MURDER ALLOWED.

It can't fail against a bunch of criminals!

Dr.3D
12-24-2012, 11:40 AM
They probably forgot to type their laws in BOLD and ALL CAPS so they would be really clear. A better law certainly would have prevented the situation. Maybe even use italics to be on the safe side.

The perfect law...

NO MURDER ALLOWED.

It can't fail against a bunch of criminals!
Could be the main stream media hasn't said enough about the law and people don't know about it.

aGameOfThrones
12-24-2012, 11:43 AM
They didn't say, and I doubt they know. I suspect it was somebody trying to get guns banned.

A Liberal.

tod evans
12-24-2012, 11:44 AM
That's a shame, I actually respect firefighters and emergency medical response teams.

Sad day.




And no I don't believe guns are the problem, people are the problem....

BAllen
12-24-2012, 12:09 PM
And there's a good chance the person who did this was using a an unregistered weapon.

youngbuck
12-24-2012, 12:18 PM
wait- who did the shooting? nice reporting.

Yea, it amazes me what passes for journalism these days. At the very least they could say "Police are still investigating who the gunman was..." or whatever.

dannno
12-24-2012, 12:33 PM
I just saw this story, and there's so much wrong in it, it sounds really fishy: http://rochester.ynn.com/content/top_stories/624514/police-chief--four-firefighters-shot-at-scene-of-fire--two-killed/



So these heroic police and firefighters who selflessly rush toward danger time and time again stopped searching for the shooter and let the fire spread to multiple houses until it just burns out? And it might have possibly been a scary semi-automatic gun.


http://i.imgur.com/nVovIl.jpg

donnay
12-24-2012, 12:49 PM
nvm

Anti Federalist
12-24-2012, 12:51 PM
If I had to fathom a guess, outside of some sort of spook/government nonsense, my first instinct says this is a Carl Drega type situation.

Somebody that just wanted to be left alone, but fucked with by the system (over god knows what) until they snapped.

tod evans
12-24-2012, 12:53 PM
Failure to release info only means one of two things;

1) shooter is still loose.

2) shooter is law enforcement.

ClydeCoulter
12-24-2012, 01:10 PM
Let's see if more of this kind of stuff happens. "Snipers in Syria" type of thing?

phill4paul
12-24-2012, 01:16 PM
If I had to fathom a guess, outside of some sort of spook/government nonsense, my first instinct says this is a Carl Drega type situation.

Somebody that just wanted to be left alone, but fucked with by the system (over god knows what) until they snapped.

I'd lay money on it. Speculation: Someone played by "all the rules" their whole life. Someone lost their job. Someone lost their house in a foreclosure. Coupled with seasonal depression at the prospect of not being a good person if they don't buy everyone something. And the fact that the world DIDN'T freakkin' end as advertised. Someone snapped because the world wasn't as they perceived it to be.

pcosmar
12-24-2012, 02:23 PM
At this point I am inclined to question and disregard the entire story.

Without credible media, there is no telling what went on there.

nobody's_hero
12-24-2012, 02:23 PM
I've heard of people keeping firefighters off the property while the home burns. Here in Georgia we had one instance of a man who had pulled all of his valuables out of the house, set the house on fire, and sat on the front lawn with a shotgun while the whole thing burned. At least he was kind enough not to shoot. I can't remember all the details but apparently the man was losing the home and his attitude was 'If I can't have it, no one can.' Arson rates went up during the housing meltdown.

belian78
12-24-2012, 02:28 PM
Who's to say that the fire didn't cause some ammunition in the home to set off? This is really shitty reporting, with a huge agenda behind it.

tod evans
12-24-2012, 02:49 PM
Faux Newz has released this;

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/24/firefighter-shot-at-scene-blaze-in-western-ny-2-homes-burning-as-police-search/

Fire 'trap': Gunman dead after killing 2 firefighters at scene of Western NY blaze



[snip]

A lone gunman, identified as William ********, was believed by investigators to have set his home and a car on fire to lure first responders.
Once firefighters arrived, ********, under a 'position of cover' fired at the firefighters from a distance after they arrived around 5:30 a.m. to battle the blaze near the Lake Ontario shore, just east of Rochester, Town of Webster Police Chief Gerald Pickering said.
The shooter was found dead hours after a brief shootout with cops according to Pickering. ******** was found around 11 am near the shore of the lake with a self -inflicted gun shot wound.

dannno
12-24-2012, 02:52 PM
Faux Newz has released this;

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/24/firefighter-shot-at-scene-blaze-in-western-ny-2-homes-burning-as-police-search/

Fire 'trap': Gunman dead after killing 2 firefighters at scene of Western NY blaze



[snip]

A lone gunman, identified as William ********, was believed by investigators to have set his home and a car on fire to lure first responders.
Once firefighters arrived, ********, under a 'position of cover' fired at the firefighters from a distance after they arrived around 5:30 a.m. to battle the blaze near the Lake Ontario shore, just east of Rochester, Town of Webster Police Chief Gerald Pickering said.
The shooter was found dead hours after a brief shootout with cops according to Pickering. ******** was found around 11 am near the shore of the lake with a self -inflicted gun shot wound.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Anti Federalist
12-24-2012, 02:58 PM
I'd lay money on it. Speculation: Someone played by "all the rules" their whole life. Someone lost their job. Someone lost their house in a foreclosure. Coupled with seasonal depression at the prospect of not being a good person if they don't buy everyone something. And the fact that the world DIDN'T freakkin' end as advertised. Someone snapped because the world wasn't as they perceived it to be.

Looks like we're closer to being right.

MelissaWV
12-24-2012, 03:24 PM
Looks like we're closer to being right.

Maybe they read the forums, but the information being released on this guy doesn't look good.*


Spengler was convicted in 1981 in the death of his 92-year-old grandmother a year earlier. He served time in prison and was released in 1998, Pickering said.

Spengler beat Rose Spengler to death with a hammer 1980, the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle reported. Rose Spengler had lived in the home next to William Spengler on Lake Road at the time of her death.

Local police had not noted any criminal activity in his recent past, Pickering said.

Pickering said they are looking into the apparent disappearance of Spengler's sister who is unaccounted for at this time.
*Disclaimer - Weird that they thought this guy who beat someone to death with a hammer was fine to release back to society, and that the sister is "apparently" vanished. No, I don't think it's necessarily all lies, but I think sometimes when someone is a suspect there is a certain effort to make them look like a monster... particularly when they are suspected of firing on cops/firemen/military.

Tpoints
12-24-2012, 03:52 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/two-firefighters-shot-killed-while-responding-webster-n-163105823.html

Too bad the Angry Town Hall or anti-socialist firefighting site is gone
https://twitter.com/angrytownhall

Another related story
http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news/local/Firefighters-watch-as-home-burns-to-the-ground-104052668.html

pcosmar
12-24-2012, 09:48 PM
Maybe they read the forums, but the information being released on this guy doesn't look good.*


*Disclaimer - Weird that they thought this guy who beat someone to death with a hammer was fine to release back to society,

Even weirder is that when I read it earlier it was manslaughter,, not murder.

dillo
12-24-2012, 10:08 PM
My friend in staten island told me that since a lot of home owners didnt have flood insurance, they have been lighting their houses on fire to collect fire insurance. Just a theory but maybe they didnt want the fire to go out so they could get more money

Carrie M
12-25-2012, 02:11 AM
It was a Meth lab gone wrong. The guy was cooking and didn't want to get busted. His sister may well be in the burned out structure. This had nothing to do with weapons. It was all about drugs. I said to a friend of mine earlier when the story broke, it is on here, the house is in close proximity to the city. The inlet bridge was just opened, easy access. I grew up here. No idea how we got a drug house in Webster. Actually is it Webster, or Irondequoit? It could also be Rochester lines where this happened.

This is a national ploy to take our guns away.
My serious condolences to the families. It is a tragedy.

Carrie M
12-25-2012, 02:14 AM
I said that too at first. I believe the paper when they said he opened fire. They only failed to disclose it was a drug house. He was cooking meth. I feel sorry for the firemen who went there and died. For no reason. We need to get the word out. This is a drug related incident. Isolated to the area.





Who's to say that the fire didn't cause some ammunition in the home to set off? This is really shitty reporting, with a huge agenda behind it.

Carrie M
12-25-2012, 02:15 AM
No one would do that. Flooding isn't that bad in this location. The road is always open. It was a meth lab. He didn't want to get busted. The guy was stoned on meth.

Tpoints
12-25-2012, 02:24 AM
It was a Meth lab gone wrong. The guy was cooking and didn't want to get busted. His sister may well be in the burned out structure. This had nothing to do with weapons. It was all about drugs. I said to a friend of mine earlier when the story broke, it is on here, the house is in close proximity to the city. The inlet bridge was just opened, easy access. I grew up here. No idea how we got a drug house in Webster. Actually is it Webster, or Irondequoit? It could also be Rochester lines where this happened.

This is a national ploy to take our guns away.
My serious condolences to the families. It is a tragedy.

Remember American History X?

Anti Federalist
12-25-2012, 02:25 AM
Ah, more victims of the War on (some) Drugs.

SMH...

phill4paul
12-25-2012, 02:28 AM
I thought for sure the explosion in Indiana was meth. I'm just so relieved to hear it was only insurance fraud.

cbrons
12-25-2012, 02:34 AM
At this point I am inclined to question and disregard the entire story.

Without credible media, there is no telling what went on there.

Media was corrupt back when I first started paying atten over 10 years ago. Now its a de facto statist media that runs the story exactly how .gov tells them to. We are so close to decending into total 3rd world tyranny or all out civil war, its terrifying to see the media already controlled prior to official nationalization.

paulbot24
12-25-2012, 03:13 AM
Several weapons were used at the shooting today, including "at least" an assault rifle, Pickering said.

"This is an individual who obviously had a lot of problems," he said, adding that there were "probably some mental health issues."

Oh yeah. No convenient timing to this story whatsoever.

S.Shorland
12-25-2012, 03:35 AM
The Meth House scenario makes great sense to me.

Tpoints
12-25-2012, 03:37 AM
The Meth House scenario makes great sense to me.

Breaking REALLY bad

paulbot24
12-25-2012, 03:39 AM
He should have just gotten a prescription for Desoxyn (http://www.rxlist.com/desoxyn-drug.htm).

Working Poor
12-25-2012, 09:21 AM
Lot a shooting happening up north lately....

tony m
12-25-2012, 09:34 AM
Lot a shooting happening up north lately....

It will get worse everywhere.

If we can get our common denominator of understanding why we all cannot afford goods and services, at least as things slowly unravel, that understanding will direct the anger at where it belongs, not pitting the common folk against one another.

Anti Federalist
12-21-2014, 01:39 PM
If I had to fathom a guess, outside of some sort of spook/government nonsense, my first instinct says this is a Carl Drega type situation.

Somebody that just wanted to be left alone, but fucked with by the system (over god knows what) until they snapped.

So, which is it:

Anti government white radicals?

Communists?

Black panthers?

Jihadists?

Or could it possibly be that people across all racial and political lines, are sick and tired of being bullied, pushed around, ordered about, raided, beaten, jailed and killed by cops that have declared a "War on Us"?