Martial Law in Arkansas? Yes, says local police chief.

[nicname]

Not sure if already posted.

I don't think this is gonna fly.

http://www.paragoulddailypress.com/articles/2012/12/15/top_story/doc50cbbb312e241511092932.txt

[thoughtomator]

"It allows us to do what we're fixing to do."

Methinks the "fixing" came first.

[Kotin]

Philip wrote on Dec 15, 2012 8:45 PM:
" This will sound rediculous to those that have something to fear. For those of us that are tired of the crime, I will be glad to produce my ID every time. You see, I have nothing to hide. "


^^^^ a real comment.. I fuck you not.

[WarAnonymous]

^^^^ a real comment.. I fuck you not.

You see your the problem... I support the Patriot Act, FISA, NDAA, and definately CISPA. I have nothing to hide. Do you? Oh yeah and I love the TSA too.

[JK/SEA]

hmmm,,,then he won't mind if i go to his house to 'take a look around would he?...

[TheTexan]

"To ask you for your ID, I have to have a reason," he said. "Well, I've got statistical reasons that say I've got a lot of crime right now, which gives me probable cause to ask what you're doing out. Then when I add that people are scared...then that gives us even more [reason] to ask why are you here and what are you doing in this area."

.....

[Mach]

Maybe it was just here on my computer, but the page kept jumping around (changing picture), so here's the story..... it's one of those, you wanna laugh, but they are serious, stories.....

Armed task force to patrol streets
Police chief says citizens could be subject to ID checks

By Ryan Saylor
rsaylor@paragoulddailypress.com
Published: Saturday, December 15, 2012 12:05 PM CST

In response to a recent increase in crime, Paragould Mayor Mike Gaskill and Police Chief Todd Stovall offered residents at a town hall meeting Thursday night at West View Baptist Church what could be considered an extreme solution — armed officers patrolling the streets on foot.

Stovall told the group of almost 40 residents that beginning in 2013, the department would deploy a new street crimes unit to high crime areas on foot to take back the streets.

"[Police are] going to be in SWAT gear and have AR-15s around their neck," Stovall said. "If you're out walking, we're going to stop you, ask why you're out walking, check for your ID."

Stovall said while some people may be offended by the actions of his department, they should not be.

"We're going to do it to everybody," he said. "Criminals don't like being talked to."

Gaskill backed Stovall's proposed actions during Thursday's town hall.

"They may not be doing anything but walking their dog," he said. "But they're going to have to prove it."

Stovall said the foot patrols would begin on the east side of town and would eventually snake into the Pecan Grove area.

He said the police would follow where crime was taking place in order to snuff it out.

Normally, police would not stop individuals for simply walking on the street, but Stovall said the level of crime in certain areas and concerns from residents gave his officers the right to institute the actions announced at the town hall event.

"This fear is what's given us the reason to do this. Once I have stats and people saying they're scared, we can do this," he said. "It allows us to do what we're fixing to do."

Stovall further elaborated on the stop-and-ID policy Friday morning, claiming the city's crime statistics alone met the threshold of reasonable suspicion required to lawfully accost a citizen.

"To ask you for your ID, I have to have a reason," he said. "Well, I've got statistical reasons that say I've got a lot of crime right now, which gives me probable cause to ask what you're doing out. Then when I add that people are scared...then that gives us even more [reason] to ask why are you here and what are you doing in this area."

Stovall said he did not consult an attorney before announcing his plans to combat crime. He even remained undaunted when comparing his proposed tactics with martial law, explaining that "I don't know that there's ever been a difference" between his proposals and martial law.

Stovall said task force members would not even be required to be looking for a specific suspect before stopping citizens on the street.

"Anyone that's out walking, because of the crime and the fear factor, [could be stopped]," he said.

Should an individual not produce identification, Stovall said his officers would not back down. Individuals who do not produce identification when asked could be charged with obstructing a governmental operation, according to Stovall.

"I'm hoping we don't run across [any] of that," Stovall said. "Will there be people who buck us? There may be. But we have a right to be doing what we're doing. We have a zero-tolerance. We are prepared to throw your hind-end in jail, OK? We're not going to take a lot of flack."

On Friday, however, Gaskill retreated from the severity of the plan he and Stovall offered to citizens at the town hall.

"The only people who are really going to be impacted by this are mostly the unknowns," Gaskill said.

The mayor said the street crimes unit would not be positioned to cause problems for law-abiding residents.

"We just want to make a presence out there for the criminal element," Gaskill said. "And we want to make a presence for the people who are concerned and give them a sense of security."

Gaskill added he was not concerned about potential profiling by the police department. Even though Stovall had said police would enter neighborhoods with the highest crime rates, Gaskill said officers would respond to where they received calls.

"It would be based on where people have called us and said things are going on in our neighborhood," he said.

Gaskill made clear Friday that when residents called about problems in their neighborhoods, they needed to provide police with information.

"Give us a description — what kinds of clothes they're wearing, [license] plate number. We'll be looking for descriptions," he said.

City Attorney Allen Warmath echoed Gaskill's statements on Friday.

"It is my understanding that if they get a call in an area and they go to an area because of some calls of suspicious activity, they'll make contact," Warmath said.

Warmath said while he had not directly spoken to Stovall, he understood that the street crimes unit would actually be less confrontational than Stovall let on.

"If they have a call that there's some problems in the area, they're at least going to talk to you," he said. "Maybe that person walking their dog saw something. It gives them some information and some leads to find out what's going on."

As for having IDs, he said citizens wouldn't have to worry about that, either. He said the police would not arrest residents solely for failing to produce identification when asked.

Attorney Curtis Hitt of the law firm of Hitt and Kidd said officers were allowed to engage in "consensual questioning" with citizens, though if any circumstances arose that led to an arrest, a judge would have to look at the "totality" of those circumstances.

"The bottom line is it would have to be determined on a case by case basis," he said.

Hitt said he had a high regard for Stovall and the Paragould police. He said he felt their intentions were in the right place, which he believed was preventing crime and making Paragould a safe community.

"At the same time, as an attorney who reads police reports and keeps up with the law, I certainly will be careful of that for any of my clients."

Thursday's town hall meeting was the second of four meetings Paragould officials will host to discuss crime statistics in different parts of town. Officials will meet with residents Tuesday at Center Hill Church of Christ and Thursday at the Paragould Community Center. Both meetings begin at 7 p.m.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[GunnyFreedom]

Horrific...

http://www.facebook.com/glenbradley/posts/399673893442504

[tod evans]

I'm dead set against any government employees behaving in this manner even local cops..

However, I think it would be a good thing if urban dwellers adapted their country brethrens attitudes and behaviors....If there are "strangers" walking up and down the country roads at night and an increase of theft or violence you can bet your ass ol' farmer Joe is going to find out who the strangers are.......Most likely under the watchful eye of his double-barrel...

I don't see cowards whining to cops as the way to clean up neighborhoods, and I certainly don't see militarized cops as an acceptable solution for anything.

[NCGOPer_for_Paul]

Isn't this is a violation of posse commitatus?

[GunnyFreedom]

Posse Comitatus applies to Federal chains of commands. US Troops like active duty Army specifically.

[GunnyFreedom]

Maybe the newly minted Special NC House Rep would be willing to consider a bill explicitly prohibiting this sort of thing.

[tod evans]

Thinking about this thread gives rise to the observation that people just don't want to take care of themselves or their property, they want to be protected by others.

This refusal to be accountable is a large part of what's eating up society today.

The "I'll just call the cops" mentality...........Akin to the grade school; "I'm gonna tell."

[donnay]

This sentence is true in the context of dealing with LE, "Criminals don't like being talked to."

"A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny." ~Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

[jcannon98188]

I have half a mind to fly down to this town in 2013 when they do this and walk the streets until a cop stops me, then refuse to produce identification, and somehow livestream the whole thing. Who is with me.

[seraphson]

^^^^ a real comment.. I fuck you not.

And to their "defense" I post this brilliant piece:


Privacy and the ‘I Have Nothing To Hide’ Argument
Posted by Michael S. Rozeff on December 16, 2012 03:27 PM

"Let the government rummage around all they want because I have nothing to hide, I've done nothing wrong." That's the most common argument in support of government invasions of privacy.

We do not want privacy only to conceal our wrong-doings. That's why this argument fails. We want privacy for a host of other reasons that have nothing to do with hiding wrongs. We do not put up curtains or draw the shades to conceal wrongs. We do not keep our financial affairs to ourselves to hide crimes. We don't conceal our social security numbers from people because we're doing something wrong. We don't invite anyone and everyone to listen in to our conversations, and it's not because we're plotting crimes. Does a child want his parents to broadcast his or her grades in school to everyone? Do children want their parents to tell everyone their habits and their imperfections? Children want privacy as much as adults. It comes natural. The demand for privacy has very, very little to do with concealing wrongs.

The "I have nothing to hide" argument fails because it has the wrong take on the functions of privacy, or its services to us, if we use economics terminology. And when it comes to government intrusions on privacy, it fails for even more reasons.

[Tod]

Maybe it was just here on my computer, but the page kept jumping around (changing picture),

I stopped that by pausing the slide show.

[FindLiberty]

You know it's over when the great unwashed masses become accustomed to using the toilet in a "nothing to hide" restroom that features four clear glass walls (and a glass ceiling for the drones).

[Eagles' Wings]

Posse Comitatus applies to Federal chains of commands. US Troops like active duty Army specifically.Does the Insurrection Act basically nullify this, or at least give a wide interpretation of "rebellion against authority of US government"?

[Athan]

You know it's over when the great unwashed masses become accustomed to using the toilet in a "nothing to hide" restroom that features four clear glass walls (and a glass ceiling for the drones).
It is already over. The Republic has fallen. The time to push back politically for Liberty and a restoration of what we ONCE had is now.

[JK/SEA]

Once these children and the Teachers are buried, and there has been a proper amount of time mourning, we will have this 'conversation' regarding the 2nd Amendment, and other gun related issues. Until then.......

Of course i'm refering to the national 'conversation., not posts in this forum.

[TomtheTinker]

The buy guns and ammo crowd making more sense to me on a daily basis.

[youngbuck]

Should an individual not produce identification, Stovall said his officers would not back down. Individuals who do not produce identification when asked could be charged with obstructing a governmental operation, according to Stovall.

What a bunch of pigs.

[Keith and stuff]

The crime stats show that crime went, way, way up in 2005 and has been high since then. Not sure what it is about. http://www.city-data.com/city/Paragould-Arkansas.html

[Mach]

The crime stats show that crime went, way, way up in 2005 and has been high since then. Not sure what it is about. http://www.city-data.com/city/Paragould-Arkansas.html

Their statistical reporting was probably "improved."

[Czolgosz]

Divorce? Anybody?

[satchelmcqueen]

well they finally figured it all otu. everything the gov ever does is "for the safety of the children." well, let a few get killed and then use it to take away more of our rights. i say arm the principle, teacher, janitor anyone who works there. ill carry if asked. i am a janitor and id be ok with it.

but to act like the police in this article is uncalled for. this is now the tipping point im afraid. even if they jail you for not showing id, yes, youll be innocent and within your rights. but how many people can afford a lawyer or the probably huge bail amount they will stack on you? also the arrest stays on your record forever even if found innocent.

[tod evans]

Contempt of cop.......

[acptulsa]

I very much fear that this will lead to the Roberts Court being able to get its teeth into Kolender v. Lawson - 461 U.S. 352 (1983). Guess it was bound to happen sooner or later. Until that happens, the precedent is against this jackass police chief in this silly hill town.

[jmdrake]

Nah. It's not just you. Whatever idiot built the page had two pictures of different size flipping back and forth. If you pause the image flip (button right below the picture) it stops.

And this is a bizarre new definition of probable cause.


Normally, police would not stop individuals for simply walking on the street, but Stovall said the level of crime in certain areas and concerns from residents gave his officers the right to institute the actions announced at the town hall event.

"This fear is what's given us the reason to do this. Once I have stats and people saying they're scared, we can do this," he said. "It allows us to do what we're fixing to do."

Stovall further elaborated on the stop-and-ID policy Friday morning, claiming the city's crime statistics alone met the threshold of reasonable suspicion required to lawfully accost a citizen.

"To ask you for your ID, I have to have a reason," he said. "Well, I've got statistical reasons that say I've got a lot of crime right now, which gives me probable cause to ask what you're doing out. Then when I add that people are scared...then that gives us even more [reason] to ask why are you here and what are you doing in this area."

So people getting scared = probable cause for the police to do whatever they want?


Maybe it was just here on my computer, but the page kept jumping around (changing picture), so here's the story..... it's one of those, you wanna laugh, but they are serious, stories.....

Armed task force to patrol streets
Police chief says citizens could be subject to ID checks

By Ryan Saylor
rsaylor@paragoulddailypress.com
Published: Saturday, December 15, 2012 12:05 PM CST

In response to a recent increase in crime, Paragould Mayor Mike Gaskill and Police Chief Todd Stovall offered residents at a town hall meeting Thursday night at West View Baptist Church what could be considered an extreme solution — armed officers patrolling the streets on foot.

Stovall told the group of almost 40 residents that beginning in 2013, the department would deploy a new street crimes unit to high crime areas on foot to take back the streets.

"[Police are] going to be in SWAT gear and have AR-15s around their neck," Stovall said. "If you're out walking, we're going to stop you, ask why you're out walking, check for your ID."

Stovall said while some people may be offended by the actions of his department, they should not be.

"We're going to do it to everybody," he said. "Criminals don't like being talked to."

Gaskill backed Stovall's proposed actions during Thursday's town hall.

"They may not be doing anything but walking their dog," he said. "But they're going to have to prove it."

Stovall said the foot patrols would begin on the east side of town and would eventually snake into the Pecan Grove area.

He said the police would follow where crime was taking place in order to snuff it out.

Normally, police would not stop individuals for simply walking on the street, but Stovall said the level of crime in certain areas and concerns from residents gave his officers the right to institute the actions announced at the town hall event.

"This fear is what's given us the reason to do this. Once I have stats and people saying they're scared, we can do this," he said. "It allows us to do what we're fixing to do."

Stovall further elaborated on the stop-and-ID policy Friday morning, claiming the city's crime statistics alone met the threshold of reasonable suspicion required to lawfully accost a citizen.

"To ask you for your ID, I have to have a reason," he said. "Well, I've got statistical reasons that say I've got a lot of crime right now, which gives me probable cause to ask what you're doing out. Then when I add that people are scared...then that gives us even more [reason] to ask why are you here and what are you doing in this area."

Stovall said he did not consult an attorney before announcing his plans to combat crime. He even remained undaunted when comparing his proposed tactics with martial law, explaining that "I don't know that there's ever been a difference" between his proposals and martial law.

Stovall said task force members would not even be required to be looking for a specific suspect before stopping citizens on the street.

"Anyone that's out walking, because of the crime and the fear factor, [could be stopped]," he said.

Should an individual not produce identification, Stovall said his officers would not back down. Individuals who do not produce identification when asked could be charged with obstructing a governmental operation, according to Stovall.

"I'm hoping we don't run across [any] of that," Stovall said. "Will there be people who buck us? There may be. But we have a right to be doing what we're doing. We have a zero-tolerance. We are prepared to throw your hind-end in jail, OK? We're not going to take a lot of flack."

On Friday, however, Gaskill retreated from the severity of the plan he and Stovall offered to citizens at the town hall.

"The only people who are really going to be impacted by this are mostly the unknowns," Gaskill said.

The mayor said the street crimes unit would not be positioned to cause problems for law-abiding residents.

"We just want to make a presence out there for the criminal element," Gaskill said. "And we want to make a presence for the people who are concerned and give them a sense of security."

Gaskill added he was not concerned about potential profiling by the police department. Even though Stovall had said police would enter neighborhoods with the highest crime rates, Gaskill said officers would respond to where they received calls.

"It would be based on where people have called us and said things are going on in our neighborhood," he said.

Gaskill made clear Friday that when residents called about problems in their neighborhoods, they needed to provide police with information.

"Give us a description — what kinds of clothes they're wearing, [license] plate number. We'll be looking for descriptions," he said.

City Attorney Allen Warmath echoed Gaskill's statements on Friday.

"It is my understanding that if they get a call in an area and they go to an area because of some calls of suspicious activity, they'll make contact," Warmath said.

Warmath said while he had not directly spoken to Stovall, he understood that the street crimes unit would actually be less confrontational than Stovall let on.

"If they have a call that there's some problems in the area, they're at least going to talk to you," he said. "Maybe that person walking their dog saw something. It gives them some information and some leads to find out what's going on."

As for having IDs, he said citizens wouldn't have to worry about that, either. He said the police would not arrest residents solely for failing to produce identification when asked.

Attorney Curtis Hitt of the law firm of Hitt and Kidd said officers were allowed to engage in "consensual questioning" with citizens, though if any circumstances arose that led to an arrest, a judge would have to look at the "totality" of those circumstances.

"The bottom line is it would have to be determined on a case by case basis," he said.

Hitt said he had a high regard for Stovall and the Paragould police. He said he felt their intentions were in the right place, which he believed was preventing crime and making Paragould a safe community.

"At the same time, as an attorney who reads police reports and keeps up with the law, I certainly will be careful of that for any of my clients."

Thursday's town hall meeting was the second of four meetings Paragould officials will host to discuss crime statistics in different parts of town. Officials will meet with residents Tuesday at Center Hill Church of Christ and Thursday at the Paragould Community Center. Both meetings begin at 7 p.m.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[acptulsa]

So people getting scared = probable cause for the police to do whatever they want?

Completely bassackward. Police doing whatever they want = probable cause for people to get scared.

[tod evans]

So people getting scared = probable cause for the police to do whatever they want?

Add to this that it's okay for cops to shoot either you or your dog if they're scared....

What's next?

[proudclod229]

Add to this that it's okay for cops to shoot either you or your dog if they're scared....

What's next?

Not to mention...if i'm out walking my dog, there's a 95% chance that I don't have ID on my person.

[Anti Federalist]

Umm, it's called a "police state" for a reason.

I fail to see why this is any kind of surprise, when the feds claim the right to "render" you to parts unknown for torture and execution, just on their say so.

What's the difference?


"I'm hoping we don't run across [any] of that," Stovall said. "Will there be people who buck us? There may be. But we have a right to be doing what we're doing. We have a zero-tolerance. We are prepared to throw your hind-end in jail, OK? We're not going to take a lot of flack."

Just another day in Amerika.

Divorce please, for the love of God, before we all kill each other.

This experiment is over, it's time for all of us to go our own way.

[Carson]

"[Police are] going to be in SWAT gear and have AR-15s around their neck," Stovall said. "If you're out walking, we're going to stop you, ask why you're out walking, check for your ID."

Can't help wonder if they will be opening fire and start yelling drop the knife, drop the knife.

Take back the streets? They have them now.




And thanks Mach. That was really annoying.

[Carson]

This story is over on Fark.com now. It's under the headline;

Arkansas cops in full SWAT gear with AR-15s hanging around their neck will be deployed for routine foot patrol. "If you're out walking, we're going to stop you, ask you why you're out walking, and check for your ID"

For the article;

Same shape shifting story link.

http://www.paragoulddailypress.com/articles/2012/12/15/top_story/doc50cbbb312e241511092932.txt


For the comments;

http://www.fark.com/comments/7492612/Arkansas-cops-in-full-SWAT-gear-with-AR-15s-hanging-around-their-neck-will-be-deployed-for-routine-foot-patrol-If-youre-out-walking-were-going-to-stop-you-ask-you-why-youre-out-walking-check-for-your-ID


Or do yourself a favor and check out the link going to the Fark Headline year end contest instead. It's some of the best headlines from the last year you can vote on;

Fark's 2012 Headline of the Year contest, Round 3: June through August

Headlines;

http://www.fark.com/comments/7489936/Farks-2012-Headline-of-Year-contest-Round-3-June-through-August


I think you have to be logged in to vote.

[Philhelm]

You have to ask yourself, WWGD (What Would Government Do)? Preemptive strike.

[tod evans]

What do ya' want to bet they pull some plays from Texas's play book?


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?398905-VIDEO-Roadside-female-cavity-search-in-Texas


Sidewalk cavity searches......