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View Full Version : What will you do in the event of a ban?




osan
12-17-2012, 10:22 AM
Though not likely, there is still some thin possibility that in the wake of the events in CT this Friday past there shall be some move to further restrict firearms. What if they enact something truly draconian with the attitude, "take us to court"?

Another possibility I see here, and I almost hesitate to publish this for some fear of giving the wrong people any ideas, but what if there comes a movement to amend the Constitution to either restrict or eliminate the 2A? Sounds pretty crazy, right? So does gunning down 20 small children... until Friday, anyhow. But if such a thing managed to pass, and I no longer rule anything as impossible, the courts and all their prior decisions would be rendered moot.

We should each give some thought to what it is we will do if such changes come to pass. Will you comply? Will you refuse?

What will you do?

Kotin
12-17-2012, 10:25 AM
Complying would be handing over your life and liberty to someone who wishes to kill you.. It is as simple as that.. If someone wishes to disarm you then they are trying to kill you.

jcannon98188
12-17-2012, 10:26 AM
if they come, we'll fight. I am a relatively peaceful person. I believe in God, and believe that Christ's main message was to love everyone; and strive to follow that. But I also believe that we have a god given right to defend ourselves, and I will die before disarming myself.

AuH20
12-17-2012, 10:29 AM
1. Invest in monovaults. 2. Start forming groups of likeminded individuals. Tyrants and their mercs will be dissuaded by even odds.

Chester Copperpot
12-17-2012, 10:34 AM
1. Invest in monovaults. 2. Start forming groups of likeminded individuals. Tyrants and their mercs will be dissuaded by even odds.

Sounds like a militia

AuH20
12-17-2012, 10:36 AM
Sounds like a militia

Militias are illegal in certain states. I like to refer to them as liberation groups. :) We all need to liberate our inner self and be at peace with the world.

aGameOfThrones
12-17-2012, 10:36 AM
Another possibility I see here, and I almost hesitate to publish this for some fear of giving the wrong people any ideas, but what if there comes a movement to amend the Constitution to either restrict or eliminate the 2A?


I would exercise my 1st amendment, then come election day vote the people out.

Czolgosz
12-17-2012, 10:36 AM
People will accept it. Yes, even the blowhards.

brooks009
12-17-2012, 10:46 AM
People will accept it. Yes, even the blowhards.

I would not be so sure... Americas love guns and Jesus. Try to take either one away and you will have a rebellion.

Todd
12-17-2012, 10:55 AM
I would not be so sure... Americas love guns and Jesus. Try to take either one away and you will have a rebellion.

I think that many of those will be some of the first to roll over. They worship the state as if Jesus were running it.

Kotin
12-17-2012, 10:56 AM
I think that many of those will be some of the first to roll over. They worship the state as if Jesus were running it.

I cannot disagree with this.. Look at their actions, not their words.

NCGOPer_for_Paul
12-17-2012, 11:01 AM
I'd try to take as many of them out with me.

AuH20
12-17-2012, 11:13 AM
Am I the only one who thinks that gun confiscation is an extremely bad idea at this time, given the external factors??? Unemployment is booming. National morale is horrible. Small business entrepeneurship is in retreat due to the vast regulatory burden and inflational monetary policy. Politically, the nation is as divided as it was back in the 1860s. This is a potential recipe for disaster.

Dr.3D
12-17-2012, 11:18 AM
Am I the only one who thinks that gun confiscation is an extremely bad idea at this time, given the external factors??? Unemployment is booming. National morale is horrible. Small business entepeneurship is in retreat due to the vast regulatory burden and inflational monetary policy. Politically, the nation is as divided as it was back in the 1860s. This is a potential recipe for disaster.
Yes, it would probably start a civil war.

COpatriot
12-17-2012, 11:20 AM
Stockpile

oyarde
12-17-2012, 11:53 AM
I would react to any weapons ban about the same as I would to prohibition. Keep living the same , pay no mind to authority.The only law on my property is my law.

TheTexan
12-17-2012, 11:55 AM
Complying would be handing over your life and liberty to someone who wishes to kill you.. It is as simple as that.. If someone wishes to disarm you then they are trying to kill you.

That.

pcosmar
12-17-2012, 11:55 AM
I have no weapons (firearms). Have been disarmed for some time.

If my neighbors want to fight this, I may join them. Otherwise, I'll pick up a weapon after the fact. And the rules will have been changed.

osan
12-17-2012, 11:55 AM
if they come, we'll fight. I am a relatively peaceful person. I believe in God, and believe that Christ's main message was to love everyone; and strive to follow that. But I also believe that we have a god given right to defend ourselves, and I will die before disarming myself.

Well shoot, even Jesus said that the means to self-defense should be one's first priority. He weren't no fool.

osan
12-17-2012, 11:57 AM
Sounds like a militia

Oh GOD!!! The M-word!!! Run everybody! Run for your lives!!!!

Oh wait... that would be "midget"...

Never mind.

osan
12-17-2012, 11:58 AM
I think that many of those will be some of the first to roll over. They worship the state as if Jesus were running it.

Oh shit​... that was harsh.

sirgonzo420
12-17-2012, 12:02 PM
if they come, we'll fight. I am a relatively peaceful person. I believe in God, and believe that Christ's main message was to love everyone; and strive to follow that. But I also believe that we have a god given right to defend ourselves, and I will die before disarming myself.

Luke 22:36

Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Lucille
12-17-2012, 12:04 PM
Yes, it would probably start a civil war.

Probably.


The vast majority of America’s 285 million guns are in Republican states, which are unlikely to be disarmed easily, even with an overwhelming Federal consensus. Some might even try to secede from the Union (http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-12-17/gun-control-big-picture).

sirgonzo420
12-17-2012, 12:14 PM
"Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who didn't."

dannno
12-17-2012, 12:27 PM
Get out of the cities.

Sola_Fide
12-17-2012, 12:31 PM
I would not be so sure... Americas love guns and Jesus. Try to take either one away and you will have a rebellion.

Americans love neither.

TheTexan
12-17-2012, 12:34 PM
http://rapidfirebunker.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/bug_out_bag.jpg

Anti Federalist
12-17-2012, 12:35 PM
Can we leave yet?

Divorce.

Before we kill each other?

Please?

I do not want to be forced to follow this to it's logical end.

pcosmar
12-17-2012, 12:37 PM
Get out of the cities.

I have heard me say that before..Get out or have a place to get out. someplace other than "Refugee camps".

gerryb1
12-17-2012, 12:37 PM
I would exercise my 1st amendment, then come election day vote the people out.

lolwut?

tangent4ronpaul
12-17-2012, 12:40 PM
I have heard me say that before..Get out or have a place to get out. someplace other than "Refugee camps".

Are you offering your place? w00t! - camp RPF's here we come! :D

-t

TheTexan
12-17-2012, 12:41 PM
Are you offering your place? w00t! - camp RPF's here we come! :D

-t

I would also recommend oyarde's place. I hear its very nice

Athan
12-17-2012, 12:49 PM
First we need to change the conversation. This isn't a problem with gun control, this is a problem with mental illness not being addressed.

oyarde
12-17-2012, 12:58 PM
Are you offering your place? w00t! - camp RPF's here we come! :D

-tChuckle , Pete may not need another mouth to feed , but could probably put you to work cutting , splitting some wood.

tangent4ronpaul
12-17-2012, 12:59 PM
I would also recommend oyarde's place. I hear its very nice

What state is he in?


First we need to change the conversation. This isn't a problem with gun control, this is a problem with mental illness not being addressed.

No, this is a problem with mental illness being addressed the WRONG WAY! By drugging people with stuff that makes them flip out sometimes.

It's also a problem with causing victim disarmament zones where high body counts can be guaranteed.

-t

tangent4ronpaul
12-17-2012, 01:02 PM
Chuckle , Pete may not need another mouth to feed , but could probably put you to work cutting , splitting some wood.

Don't mind the chop wood, carry water bit, but I wouldn't show up someplace with out bringing a ton of food, ammo and medical supplies, among other stuff... bigger Q would be how to fit it all in the car... I wonder if U-Hall makes advansed reservations for TSHTF day? :D

-t

jdmyprez_deo_vindice
12-17-2012, 01:09 PM
I suspect I would end up dead or in prison because I would refuse to just hand over my second amendment rights without a fight. Sadly, I fear I would be one of the few because I believe most people would either bitch and moan but give them up or gladly rush off to turn them in because latest propaganda has them convinced it is in their best interest to make the world a safer place.

Cody1
12-17-2012, 01:12 PM
Don't mind the chop wood, carry water bit, but I wouldn't show up someplace with out bringing a ton of food, ammo and medical supplies, among other stuff... bigger Q would be how to fit it all in the car... I wonder if U-Hall makes advansed reservations for TSHTF day? :D

-t

I'm an auto mechanic! Been working on cars for almost ten years now! lol

Lucille
12-17-2012, 01:15 PM
I was searching for another post on what has historically happened when governments disarm their populations, and came across this old thread:

Thread: When They Come For Your Guns . . . You Will Turn Them Over
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?384793-When-They-Come-For-Your-Guns-.-.-.-You-Will-Turn-Them-Over

Lucille
12-17-2012, 01:19 PM
Innocents Betrayed -- The True Story of Gun Control
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?398706-Video-Innocents-Betrayed-The-True-Story-of-Gun-Control


Documentary showing that "gun control" has historically been used to disarm citizens and make them helpless before governments commit genocide. Dramatically covers major genocides in the Soviet Union, Germany, Uganda, Rwanda, China, Turkey, and other countries.Shows how "gun control" in the U.S. has been used to victimize blacks, Indians, children, women, and others.Combines gut-level emotional appeal and fast-paced, powerful graphics with a cool statement of historic facts and quotes from the relevant laws.

[video=youtube;vAU9AJfttls]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAU9AJfttls

TomtheTinker
12-17-2012, 01:23 PM
I DON'T CONFORM ...WILL NOT COMPLY its tough going against tell grain
...but we are just the guys to do it.

tangent4ronpaul
12-17-2012, 01:25 PM
You know, I just had a major change of heart on this whole issue. So I just now donated all of my guns to charity. A direct charity, that is. Since this is all "for the children", I decided to give all of mine away to a couple of poor local kids whose sneakers were wearing thin. You know, the neighborhood boys who are always out there working for some local entrepreneurs watching for customers and running errands. You know those nice folks up the street that sell crack on the street corner. Maybe they will use the money for some new coats and better meals... I feel so much better now...

Maybe I should have asked for a receipt, though. You know for when the SWAT team kicks in my door demanding them? I'll rush right out now and ask them for one...

-t

Confederate
12-17-2012, 01:26 PM
Create a sockpuppet account.


Oh, you're taking about a gun ban? Not likely to happen, at least not a catch-all ban. They may ban certain weapons, but most likely they'll go after ammo like the Mexican government did in the 80s. No ammo and your guns are worthless and most people will hand them in voluntarily.

JK/SEA
12-17-2012, 01:30 PM
//

TomtheTinker
12-17-2012, 01:34 PM
I DON'T CONFORM ...WILL NOT COMPLY its tough going against tell grain
...but we are just the guys to do it.

Tod
12-17-2012, 01:35 PM
First we need to change the conversation. This isn't a problem with gun control, this is a problem with mental illness not being addressed.

They are fully aware of that and are using it to further their goal of disarmament

CaptUSA
12-17-2012, 01:40 PM
First we need to change the conversation. This isn't a problem with gun control, this is a problem with mental illness not being addressed.Well, then I suppose it's a good thing they're focused on the guns. Mandatory mental screenings are maybe even more scary than taking away my guns.

Don't give 'em any ideas.

youngbuck
12-17-2012, 02:00 PM
I'll give anybody concerned my best estimate on the location of the boating accident I had last year at an alpine lake. They can send divers to the bottom and help me recover them...

jmdrake
12-17-2012, 02:03 PM
I'll start posting on revolutionbox.c.....oh...nevermind.

TonySutton
12-17-2012, 02:20 PM
Get ready to move to the first state that entertains secession :P

Todd
12-17-2012, 02:28 PM
Oh shit​... that was harsh.

Yes. And I call myself a Christian too. I witness the way I see some of my bretheren talk out of both sides of their mouth about their distrust of government on one hand, and then their unquestioning loyalty when it's someone like Romney of GW Bush.

presence
12-17-2012, 02:35 PM
http://0.tqn.com/d/garages/1/0/T/1/-/-/joint-compound.jpg

osan
12-17-2012, 02:42 PM
First we need to change the conversation. This isn't a problem with gun control, this is a problem with mental illness not being addressed.

This is simplistic. The problem stems from many factors.

pcosmar
12-17-2012, 02:54 PM
I would not be so sure... Americas love guns and Jesus. Try to take either one away and you will have a rebellion.

They already took guns. I will draw the line at my Faith.

Republicanguy
12-17-2012, 02:55 PM
They already took guns. I will draw the line at my Faith.

Your a christian too?

69360
12-17-2012, 03:24 PM
What in the world makes some of you think Obama is going to do a gun grab? This is the guy that since taking office he has signed into law concealed carry in national parks and guns in checked baggage on amtrak. America's 2 favorite things are God and guns, take either and you get a revolution. So nothing is going to happen relax.

Confederate
12-17-2012, 03:30 PM
What in the world makes some of you think Obama is going to do a gun grab? This is the guy that since taking office he has signed into law concealed carry in national parks and guns in checked baggage on amtrak. America's 2 favorite things are God and guns, take either and you get a revolution. So nothing is going to happen relax.

There won't be an all-out gun ban, it's just not feasible, politically or logistically.

It's much easier to control the production and sale of ammunition.

Confederate
12-17-2012, 03:31 PM
CINO

If you don't believe the same gospel Paul believed, that would make you a CINO.

Yes, I know. Everyone who doesn't believe in Sola_Fide's personal interpretation of the Bible and Calvinism is damned to Hell and is not a Christian.

ClydeCoulter
12-17-2012, 03:37 PM
Really? That would mean that RPFs is a haven for non-believers in Christianity, as nationally 78.4% of the population is Christian. If only 60% here are then...

http://religions.pewforum.org/reports

-t

I never thought of this place as a haven for us non-believers, but...

Athan
12-17-2012, 03:45 PM
This is simplistic. The problem stems from many factors.

People want a simple answer.

osan
12-17-2012, 04:06 PM
People want a simple answer.

Well alrighty then. I guess we can pack our things and all go home. All is made right.

Michigan11
12-17-2012, 04:31 PM
Complying would be handing over your life and liberty to someone who wishes to kill you.. It is as simple as that.. If someone wishes to disarm you then they are trying to kill you.

+ 100000000000000000000 REPS

SpreadOfLiberty
12-17-2012, 04:59 PM
Hide the guns until they leave of course.

No need to hand them over, no need to fight.

ProBlue33
12-17-2012, 05:09 PM
They could adopt Canadian style gun control for hand guns only.

alucard13mmfmj
12-17-2012, 05:12 PM
I wonder if China and Russia will get involved.

Kotin
12-17-2012, 05:45 PM
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?398808-SPLIT-(from-gun-thread)-Religious-Debate-Thread/page4

Please go here to continue derailment convo.. Everyone else carry on with the thread topic :)

TheTexan
12-17-2012, 05:52 PM
Hide the guns until they leave of course.

No need to hand them over, no need to fight.

I disagree. The first time they knock, it's to ask politely for your guns please. The second time they knock, it's to search your house to make sure you're compliant. The third time they knock, you're getting dragged into boxcars while your rifles are buried in the bushes.

When they come, coordinate, organize, retreat if necessary. But eventually, there will be a need to either fight, or flight. Can't hide forever.

69360
12-17-2012, 06:08 PM
There won't be an all-out gun ban, it's just not feasible, politically or logistically.

It's much easier to control the production and sale of ammunition.

That won't happen either. You cut off the ammo supply you get the exact same backlash. There has been absolutely no sign of an impending gun grab from Obama. I don't like the guy at all, but that's the truth.

tangent4ronpaul
12-17-2012, 06:12 PM
I wonder if China and Russia will get involved.

It's weird with NK, Russia is helping SK with their sat program and condemned NK's launch. China also had nothing good to say about it and these 3 countries are supposed to be allies. There is the whole BRIC and SCO thing and Iran being close to RU and CH with Syria being a line in the sand that we seem to keep provoking as if we want to start WWIII. Is that the goal? WTF????

-t

Murray N Rothbard
12-17-2012, 06:21 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO64tPakN8Y

Time to look into reloading.

Also time to stock up on spare parts. Firing pins, springs, barrels, etc.

Anti Federalist
12-17-2012, 06:21 PM
Two most important points of guerrilla warfare:

1 - NEVER try to defend a fixed position. A guerrilla fighter's most valuable weapon is that fact that he is small and mobile and the system is large and cumbersome.

2 - A guerrilla fighter will monkey wrench the system's means of control over the people, putting them cold, hungry and in the dark. They will despise him at first, even more than they do now, but, after about six months or so, they will be just as angry at the system for allowing it to continue. That will be millions and millions and millions of people that the system will have to house, feed, and keep out of trouble. It will crash.

presence
12-17-2012, 07:42 PM
I think you just earned some nsa points for that

Tod
12-17-2012, 07:46 PM
I stopped by the local outfitter store this evening.

A few days ago they had a large inventory of AR-15 mags. Today the pegs were bare.
Similar story w/ .223 ammo, although not quite as bad.

The section of racks where they keep the AR-15s had a lot of gaps in it, so they appear to be selling a LOT of them.

I picked up some boots I had ordered and wished I had the bucks for some weapons.

KCIndy
12-17-2012, 08:23 PM
That won't happen either. You cut off the ammo supply you get the exact same backlash. There has been absolutely no sign of an impending gun grab from Obama. I don't like the guy at all, but that's the truth.


I dunno, my friend... I'm getting a bad feeling that this is going to become a "watershed moment." And it will do so ONLY because the media are going to push this - relentlessly - AS a "watershed moment."

I'm seeing lots and lots of news articles that are nothing but thinly disguised propaganda pieces pushing for gun control.

And as far as Obama, we have to look no further than his speech at Sandy Hook:

http://www.npr.org/2012/12/16/167412995/transcript-president-obama-at-sandy-hook-prayer-vigil

If there is even one step we can take to save another child, or another parent, or another town, from the grief that has visited Tucson, and Aurora, and Oak Creek, and Newtown, and communities from Columbine to Blacksburg before that — then surely we have an obligation to try.

In the coming weeks, I will use whatever power this office holds to engage my fellow citizens — from law enforcement to mental health professionals to parents and educators — in an effort aimed at preventing more tragedies like this. Because what choice do we have? We can't accept events like this as routine. Are we really prepared to say that we're powerless in the face of such carnage, that the politics are too hard? Are we prepared to say that such violence visited on our children year after year after year is somehow the price of our freedom?

This is a fine chance to kill freedom in the name of safety "for the children!" :(

Natural Citizen
12-17-2012, 08:40 PM
First we need to change the conversation. This isn't a problem with gun control, this is a problem with mental illness not being addressed.

Yep. People need to understand that the first people on the scene when things like this happen are the pharmaceutical corporations. And, of course, psychiatry has been complicit in what they have been shoving down the throats of these youth. And now the msm is selling the idea that folks should demand more. Of course, the dolts will love them for it. Look at the terms of controversy being laid out by the corporate news platforms. Who is it that sponsors these programs? I cannot begin to say how many big pharma commercials one is subjected to during the course of a given commercial break. Make no mistake about it. The terms of controversy will be spun via msm who speak for these companies who pay the bills. They(msm) are doing damage control for these companies and guess who will become the target of that? Heck, maybe even create some of this growth they like so much too.

They aren't going after your guns directly. People are foolish to play along with that meme. They want to go through the family and wreck that first. Pay attention. Turn the tables on that meme and all will be well. Small window to do so. Very small. They are already way ahead. The msm has already set the terms of controversy and are running interference for the industry. Have to reset those terms. And loudly.

I watched a segment on Fox today where they decided among themselves as talking heads what the three terms of controversy were. All three had to do with you and your family needing...wait for it...pyhscological help. See how that worked? Problem...Reaction...Solution

Way to see, Athan. Way to see.

Natural Citizen
12-17-2012, 08:57 PM
First we need to change the conversation. This isn't a problem with gun control, this is a problem with mental illness not being addressed.

Be careful what you accept when the same brood of psychiatry pro's who have remained complicit in all of this wants to use the cable news platforms they sponsor to say that they need to address your mental capacity, btw.

Of course, it probably doesn't matter anyhow. I assume they already have a patent on much of the human genes now. It's just one of those bonuses they have since folks don't really want to ask them what they are putting into the food supply and all of that. Was for the good of the free market, they were saying. Meds are the same beast, I imagine. Maybe they'll just do a human recall and force mental examination so that they can better serve the consumer. Is a hoot. If you're good to go then here...take this rfid tattoo and off you go. No guns for you, btw. Our product has changed your genes in a manner in which you cannot think logically. And we'll now be able to keep an extra eye on you and yours. :rolleyes:

Twilight Zone music playing in the background.....

KCIndy
12-17-2012, 09:01 PM
Create a sockpuppet account.


Oh, you're taking about a gun ban? Not likely to happen, at least not a catch-all ban. They may ban certain weapons, but most likely they'll go after ammo like the Mexican government did in the 80s. No ammo and your guns are worthless and most people will hand them in voluntarily.


Definitely time to start laying in some reloading supplies, for those who haven't already started.

rprprs
12-17-2012, 09:33 PM
That won't happen either. You cut off the ammo supply you get the exact same backlash. There has been absolutely no sign of an impending gun grab from Obama. I don't like the guy at all, but that's the truth.


I dunno, my friend... I'm getting a bad feeling that this is going to become a "watershed moment." And it will do so ONLY because the media are going to push this - relentlessly - AS a "watershed moment."

I'm seeing lots and lots of news articles that are nothing but thinly disguised propaganda pieces pushing for gun control.

And as far as Obama, we have to look no further than his speech at Sandy Hook:

http://www.npr.org/2012/12/16/167412995/transcript-president-obama-at-sandy-hook-prayer-vigil


This is a fine chance to kill freedom in the name of safety "for the children!" :(
I agree. If Obama has previously not shown himself to be a gun grabber, it is only because a large segment of his base and the media have not screamed loud enough for it. They will now. This is a whole new ball game.

Pericles
12-17-2012, 09:41 PM
Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775.
No man thinks more highly than I do of the patriotism, as well as abilities, of the very worthy gentlemen who have just addressed the House. But different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely and without reserve. This is no time for ceremony. The questing before the House is one of awful moment to this country. For my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery; and in proportion to the magnitude of the subject ought to be the freedom of the debate. It is only in this way that we can hope to arrive at truth, and fulfill the great responsibility which we hold to God and our country. Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings.
Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it.
I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves and the House. Is it that insidious smile with which our petition has been lately received? Trust it not, sir; it will prove a snare to your feet. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed with a kiss. Ask yourselves how this gracious reception of our petition comports with those warlike preparations which cover our waters and darken our land. Are fleets and armies necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling to be reconciled that force must be called in to win back our love? Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation; the last arguments to which kings resort. I ask gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlemen assign any other possible motive for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies? No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us: they can be meant for no other. They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging. And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves. Sir, we have done everything that could be done to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne! In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation. There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to be free-- if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending--if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained--we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of hosts is all that is left us!
They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable--and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.
It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace-- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

tangent4ronpaul
12-17-2012, 10:12 PM
I stopped by the local outfitter store this evening.

A few days ago they had a large inventory of AR-15 mags. Today the pegs were bare.
Similar story w/ .223 ammo, although not quite as bad.

The section of racks where they keep the AR-15s had a lot of gaps in it, so they appear to be selling a LOT of them.

I picked up some boots I had ordered and wished I had the bucks for some weapons.

There is something known as consignment - you might inquire. When you enter into such an agreement, you have just bought it and should be grandfathered. Even though you are still paying for it. Also take note of my other post in another thread to you about just buying a lower because ATF considers that the whole weapon for a AR-15 and you will be able to buy other parts freely if a ban ever comes around. They are in the $140-180 range.

-t

cbrons
12-17-2012, 10:32 PM
Complying would be handing over your life and liberty to someone who wishes to kill you.. It is as simple as that.. If someone wishes to disarm you then they are trying to kill you.

Kotin, I do not know who you are, where you come from, what your heritage is, how old you are, or even whether you are male or female, but you are my brother. You said it exactly correct. We cannot allow the scum to disarm us or we are total slaves. DO NOT LISTEN TO ALL OF THESE SCUM FROM THE EUROTRASH POLICE STATES LIKE PIERS MORGAN AND MURDOCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WAKE UP!!! IT IS ONE THING TO STEAL OUR WEALTH AND ALL OF OUR OTHER RIGHTS, BUT THEY ARE LITERALLY NOW TRYING TO TAKE AWAY YOUR RIGHT TO PROTECT YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY FROM THE GARBAGE OF SOCIETY (INCLUDING THEM).

WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!

cjm
12-17-2012, 10:34 PM
It's wise to be on guard against gun bans and the influence of big pharma, but let's not get so distracted that we're being reactive instead of proactive.

End the Fed, folks, and a lot of these problems will take care of themselves.

MontanaRose
12-17-2012, 10:38 PM
I don't talk on here, but I do have something to say about guns being banned!! I am not a gun owner or believe in owning guns myself I believe in the second Amendment, and have just shoot my first pistol, about 3 weeks ago. No I didn't like, but I will learn how to use a gun as I will not let them take away your right to own and bear arms.

TruckinMike
12-17-2012, 10:40 PM
I'd try to take as many of them out with me as possible without being taken out myself.

There, fixed it for you. The "live to fight another day" philosophy is a winning philosophy.:D

TMike

nemt4paul
12-17-2012, 11:24 PM
I don't talk on here, but I do have something to say about guns being banned!! I am not a gun owner or believe in owning guns myself I believe in the second Amendment, and have just shoot my first pistol, about 3 weeks ago. No I didn't like, but I will learn how to use a gun as I will not let them take away your right to own and bear arms.

Congrats Rose....join the thousands of Montanans that enjoy this liberty!

TheTexan
12-17-2012, 11:37 PM
End the Fed, folks, and a lot of these problems will take care of themselves.

Short of secession, that's simply not happening. It's not even an option on the table.

Our government will not ever "End the Fed", because the truth is, foreign banks will end it for them. The fate of the dollar is in their hands. China, Russia, have already been making preparations to dump the dollar for quite some time now, but most notably in the past couple years.

When the foreign banks decide to dump the dollar as a reserve currency, one or more of a few things will happen:
1) If the banks dump the dollar extremely carefully, our country loses its power over the next few decades and we enter into a very very long, painful depression

If the banks are less than perfectly careful in how they abandon the dollar, it will send the dollar into hyperinflation and:
2) The US military intervenes, and starts World War III to maintain its reserve currency status
and/or
3) The welfare system collapses, stores stop accepting food stamps, mass riots in the streets

If the US wins World War III, then the US will maintain reserve currency status, the Fed will keep printing, and the US will have 20-30 more years of relative prosperity (at the expense of the rest of the world), until the (economic) cycle invariably repeats itself in about 70 years and we're where we are today. (Of course the tyranny in the USA would be unimaginable by this point)

I believe #2 or #3 are far more likely than #1, because half of the countries on the globe want the US to fail miserably, and nearly every single one of them currently has the power to begin the chain of events that will send the US into hyperinflation. Probably one of China's friends. China doesn't want to do it, because they preferably would like to avoid WWIII, and getting one of their friends to do it would be less likely to send the US into a murderous rampage.

In all 3 cases, there are only 2 realistic options on the table of avoiding tyranny. Secession or Conquest. Secession would obviously be preferable.

The post-mortem of this country will indeed point to the Fed as the cause of these problems, but in the meantime, we have more important things to worry about. Our lives.

oyarde
12-18-2012, 12:53 AM
You know, I just had a major change of heart on this whole issue. So I just now donated all of my guns to charity. A direct charity, that is. Since this is all "for the children", I decided to give all of mine away to a couple of poor local kids whose sneakers were wearing thin. You know, the neighborhood boys who are always out there working for some local entrepreneurs watching for customers and running errands. You know those nice folks up the street that sell crack on the street corner. Maybe they will use the money for some new coats and better meals... I feel so much better now...

Maybe I should have asked for a receipt, though. You know for when the SWAT team kicks in my door demanding them? I'll rush right out now and ask them for one...

-t Buy me a beer , I will get you a legit recpt., you keep what you have . My Foundation and PAC have these powers .

oyarde
12-18-2012, 12:56 AM
Get ready to move to the first state that entertains secession :P Might want to go with the second if you do not have your own Battalion , or 92 Battalions , or so....

oyarde
12-18-2012, 01:03 AM
What in the world makes some of you think Obama is going to do a gun grab? This is the guy that since taking office he has signed into law concealed carry in national parks and guns in checked baggage on amtrak. America's 2 favorite things are God and guns, take either and you get a revolution. So nothing is going to happen relax. " On the plains of hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions , who at the dawn of victory sit down to rest and resting died "

oyarde
12-18-2012, 01:06 AM
That won't happen either. You cut off the ammo supply you get the exact same backlash. There has been absolutely no sign of an impending gun grab from Obama. I don't like the guy at all, but that's the truth. He can hide behind the Senate and sign what he wishes.

oyarde
12-18-2012, 01:12 AM
[QUOTE=tangent4ronpaul;4779911]What state is he in?



No, this is a problem with mental illness being addressed the WRONG WAY! By drugging people with stuff that makes them flip out sometimes.

It's also a problem with causing victim disarmament zones where high body counts can be guaranteed. I can make a spot for you Tangent , plenty of food, just have to catch it or shoot it :)

RickyJ
12-18-2012, 01:17 AM
If there is a ban on guns then I will have to turn over all my guns, or go to jail, or fight them to death when they come to arrest me. I think I will just say I have no guns, no registered guns that is.

tangent4ronpaul
12-18-2012, 01:19 AM
[QUOTE=tangent4ronpaul;4779911]What state is he in?



No, this is a problem with mental illness being addressed the WRONG WAY! By drugging people with stuff that makes them flip out sometimes.

It's also a problem with causing victim disarmament zones where high body counts can be guaranteed. I can make a spot for you Tangent , plenty of food, just have to catch it or shoot it :)

So what state are you in?

-t

oyarde
12-18-2012, 01:35 AM
[QUOTE=oyarde;4780841]

So what state are you in?

-t Most of the time , anymore , in my old age , Southern Indiana .

oyarde
12-18-2012, 01:37 AM
Five does , tonight in the front yard , about 11:30 pm.

presence
12-18-2012, 08:56 AM
Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775.


No man thinks more highly than I do of the patriotism, as well as abilities, of the very worthy gentlemen who have just addressed the House. But different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely and without reserve. This is no time for ceremony. The questing before the House is one of awful moment to this country. For my own part,

I consider it as nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery;

and in proportion to the magnitude of the subject ought to be the freedom of the debate. It is only in this way that we can hope to arrive at truth, and fulfill the great responsibility which we hold to God and our country. Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings.

Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost,

I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it.

I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves and the House. Is it that insidious smile with which our petition has been lately received? Trust it not, sir; it will prove a snare to your feet. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed with a kiss. Ask yourselves how this gracious reception of our petition comports with those warlike preparations which cover our waters and darken our land. Are fleets and armies necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling to be reconciled that force must be called in to win back our love? Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation; the last arguments to which kings resort.

I ask gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission?

Can gentlemen assign any other possible motive for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies? No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us: they can be meant for no other. They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging.

And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves. Sir, we have done everything that could be done to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne! In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation.

There is no longer any room for hope.

If we wish to be free-- if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending--if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained--we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of hosts is all that is left us!
They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power.

The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us.

Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable--and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.
It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace-- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?

Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

Fixed! Nobody stops for block text :)

AuH20
12-18-2012, 09:06 AM
We should start writing sincere letters to all rank-and-file ATF personnel, reminding them that they don't have to go down this disastrous route. They have a choice because ultimately they will be ones charged with the enforcement.

osan
12-18-2012, 09:32 AM
We should start writing sincere letters to all rank-and-file ATF personnel, reminding them that they don't have to go down this disastrous route. They have a choice because ultimately they will be ones charged with the enforcement.

The problem there, of course, is when it comes down to brass tacks, how many will actually demur when ordered?

AuH20
12-18-2012, 09:36 AM
The problem there, of course, is when it comes down to brass tacks, how many will actually demur when ordered?

And the real problem with confiscation is the huge difference in motivation between the parties. One side is there to complete a bureaucratic task with no real personal incentive. And the other is literally fighting for their way of life. I personally would not feel comfortable being assigned to the task completion side.

osan
12-18-2012, 12:58 PM
And the real problem with confiscation is the huge difference in motivation between the parties. One side is there to complete a bureaucratic task with no real personal incentive. And the other is literally fighting for their way of life. I personally would not feel comfortable being assigned to the task completion side.

Point taken. But what if they could make it a cause for those in question?